{"id":302589,"date":"2012-09-07T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2012-09-07T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-desert-of-estrangement\/"},"modified":"2012-09-07T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2012-09-07T15:00:00","slug":"the-desert-of-estrangement","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-desert-of-estrangement\/","title":{"rendered":"The Desert of Estrangement"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The earthquake of divorce doesn&#8217;t just affect the spouses involved.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-09-07.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"24.19M","filesize_raw":"25369717","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2830,2849,2813],"tags":[4033],"podcast_series":[7898],"cwp_profile":[8940],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302589","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-children-of-divorce","category-drifting-apart","category-recovering-from-divorce","tag-divorce","podcast_series-begin-again-believe-again","cwp_profile-sharon-hersh","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302589\/the-desert-of-estrangement","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302589\/the-desert-of-estrangement","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"PtWQRDfoA4\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-desert-of-estrangement\/\">The Desert of Estrangement<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-desert-of-estrangement\/embed\/#?secret=PtWQRDfoA4\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Desert of Estrangement&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"PtWQRDfoA4\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-09-07.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-09-07.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When Sharon Hersh\u2019s marriage ended, it had an impact, not only on Sharon, but on her relationship with her daughter.\u00a0 Ultimately, Sharon found she had to take the initiative for that relationship to be healed.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 For me, I had to surrender first of all. \u201cOkay, God, maybe, maybe, You intended this for good in my life, and that this is more than just a fight between mother and daughter.\u201d\u00a0 I think that\u2019s when redemptive possibilities occur, when we begin to see that there is more going on than meets the eye.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, September 7<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 When we start to see the fingerprints of God in the midst of difficult situations, we can see a lot of things start to change.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t know how many of our listeners have ever stopped to think about this, but any time there is a relational break between two people, it\u2019s not just between two people.\u00a0 There\u2019s collateral damage in any relational break.\u00a0 You may think, \u201cWell, this is just between you and me,\u201d but our lives are so interconnected that if it\u2019s you and me, there are people around us who are going to get some shrapnel from our battle.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, you are right, Bob.\u00a0 I think when a person goes through a divorce, they may think it\u2019s just the separating of two that have become one\u2014at least, in theory\u2014but it\u2019s a domino effect.\u00a0 It has an impact on children, obviously, that are in the family\u2014if there are any.\u00a0 It also has an impact on other family members\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014and the church and the community.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have someone who understands that both from a therapist viewpoint, because she is a therapist, but also from personal experience.\u00a0 Sharon Hersh joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Sharon, welcome back.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s good to be with you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI often say that divorce is the gift that keeps on giving.\u00a0 That certainly is true, as you just alluded to, in children or extended family members.\u00a0 I just read a statistic last month that, right now, in the United States, there are more adult children estranged from their parents than ever; and they really do equate it to the toll that divorce has taken on our culture.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You and your husband were divorced in 2001, and there was a period of estrangement that happened between you and your daughter following that divorce, right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and I don\u2019t know how much the divorce contributed to it, but divorce does plant a seed in the minds of children of divorce that when relationships get difficult, get out.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, in fact, let me read <em>Webster<\/em>\u2019s definition from the dictionary of what estrangement means.\u00a0 I started thinking about the word \u201cestrangement\u201d in preparation for our conversation today, and I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s kind of an interesting word, \u2018estrangement.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 <em>Webster<\/em> defines it this way: \u201cTo turn a person from an affectionate or friendly attitude to an indifferent or hostile one.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 That describes it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, now, just take it back to the application Bob was just making, you\u2019ve taken two who used to be affectionate toward each other, husband and wife, and you\u2019ve created a hostile situation there and think that somehow that poison is not going to spill over to the children\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely, it does.\u00a0 In fact, in the Old Testament, they talk about making a covenant.\u00a0 When two people come together around a lamb, they slaughter it in half; and then they say, \u201cIf anything comes between us, let it also be done to me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I can tell you about divorce is that it is much less like going to the court house and signing a bunch of papers and handing them over in a sterile environment.\u00a0 It is much more like splitting an animal in two and blood and guts go everywhere, and there is a lot of pain and gnashing of teeth, and that does trickle down to the children.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, a few years ago\u2014so maybe ten years after the divorce, my daughter who we had been extremely close\u2014and I\u2019m going to say this here, Probably too close, because what often happens in a marriage, when the marriage is not good, especially a mom will bond with her children rather than do the work to bond with her husband, which was true in my case.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy daughter and I had some difficulties arise between us as she came into adulthood, and our relationship became more hostile.\u00a0 So, over the course of a few events, she decided to cut me out of her life, probably one of the more painful things I\u2019ve ever experienced.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know in writing this book in the chapter in the book about estrangement, I have received hundreds of letters and e-mails from families saying, \u201cThis is the first time we\u2019ve ever heard somebody talk about this reality, and we\u2019re experiencing it with our son or with our daughter or with both of our children.\u201d\u00a0 I know it is a topic that touches many families.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Would you call this a prodigal situation?\u00a0 I mean was she kind of wandering off, and when you tried to uphold a godly standard, she said, \u201cI don\u2019t want to hear it?\u201d\u00a0 Or was it deeper than that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was deeper than that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think without telling her story, which is really hers to tell\u2014there was a deep wound that really came from watching her mom and dad fall apart, in watching her mom fall apart.\u00a0 I think she had a lot of anger and bitterness and resentment that she never dealt with, never expressed, never got help with.\u00a0 So, there we\u2019re back to the theme of getting help even for your children when things are going on in the family.\u00a0 And it all culminated in an estrangement that lasted for over a year.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m thinking of a family member right now that I\u2019m estranged from; and as a Christian, how do you process the Bible\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014and its commands to be at peace with all men as much as it depends upon you?\u00a0 How do you go through that process, and what is your responsibility as a follower of Christ?\u00a0 You had to go through that as a mom as you experienced the loneliness and the loss of what had been a very deep relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think one of the reasons we don\u2019t talk about it in public is because there\u2019s also shame.\u00a0 You feel like \u201cWhat kind of mother must I be?\u201d\u00a0 So, another reason to kind of hide\u2014by this point in my life, I had surrendered enough that I knew I couldn\u2019t hide, and I talked to everyone about it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCertainly, woke up many mornings, already with tears streaming down my face as I plotted and thought and had those conversations in my head of what I would say to her and how I would justify my position and tell her all the things that I have done for her all of her life and point out what she was doing and how foolish it was or how wrong she was.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was sitting on an airplane on the way to Seattle one day, and I feel like the Holy Spirit stopped me and said, \u201cSharon, just be quiet.\u00a0 Listen to what I have for you.\u201d\u00a0 So, there\u2019s that theme again of being honest and open and willing; and led me to a search in the Scriptures, really, to understand exactly what you just asked, Dennis, \u201cWhat are you supposed to do when you can\u2019t resolve something?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI do believe there are conflicts that we have in human relationships that we cannot sometimes resolve.\u00a0 I felt the Holy Spirit just saying, \u201cTake care of your own life, do what I want you to do in your daily life, and this will be okay.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019ve been in an estranged relationship that is hostile, words are said that you never dreamed would be said, and you really do feel the pain of that relationship piercing through to the very core of you, it will not surprise you to hear that I really did compare this estrangement with a crucifixion.\u00a0 It felt like I was being crucified, that I was being assaulted and insulted and talked badly about and left hung out to dry, humiliated before all my friends and my church.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you do not see estrangement in relationship as a crucifixion, it will just be a series of ugly incidents between people.\u00a0 But as you begin to see that this might be something that God has authored to destroy something, which is what crucifixion does, destroyed the power of sin and death when Christ was crucified, then you can start to ask, \u201cWhat does God want to destroy here?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 As you were talking about the crucifixion, I couldn\u2019t help but think about your book, <em>Begin Again, Believe Again<\/em>, and chapter five that is entitled <em>The Desert of Estrangement<\/em>.\u00a0 In that chapter, you begin by quoting Gene Edwards in a book, <em>Exquisite Agony<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tListen to what he says: \u201cEvery crucifixion contains certain characteristics common to all crucifixions: rejection, pain, unfairness, rumor, innuendos, more pain, misunderstanding, demeaning, belittling, loss of reputation, loss of friends.\u00a0 Often there is excommunication, the loss of all things.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 If you\u2019re listening and in the middle of an estrangement, those words are familiar to you.\u00a0 They do; they hurt; they cut.\u00a0 So, for me, I had to surrender, first of all, \u201cOkay, God, maybe, maybe, You intended this for good in my life and that this is more than just a fight between mother and daughter.\u201d\u00a0 I think that\u2019s when redemptive possibilities occur, when we begin to see that there is more going on than meets the eye.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I began to think about a crucifixion and how God uses it to destroy the power of sin and death, I began to examine my relationship with my daughter and knew there were some things that needed to be destroyed.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to make sure our listeners understand, you\u2019re not in any way trying to trivialize the agony Christ experienced on the cross.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, I think this is merely a taste of that; but certainly, leads us to a process of fellowship with Him.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The fellowship of His suffering\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014is what you\u2019re talking about.\u00a0 What did you find in this process that needed to be nailed to the cross and put to death that you hadn\u2019t seen in your own heart before?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I suspect anyone listening to this program will get this because you listen to FamilyLife because family is important; but for many of us, family becomes an idol.\u00a0 In my life, certainly, after my marriage fell apart, then, my kids were going to work.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 They\u2019re going to turn out right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to have a relationship with them where I am everything to them, and they are everything to me.\u00a0 Do you hear that?\u00a0 That\u2019s idolatry.\u00a0 I think I am a tough woman to get through to sometimes; and God had to take maybe my most vulnerable place, my relationship with my daughter, for me once again to surrender\u2014to surrender to this work in my life.\u00a0 Because it\u2019s only as we surrender to crucifixion that we are open to the possibilities of resurrection.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, how do you begin again and believe again when you have been in relationships that have shattered you, broken you, pierced you, ruined you\u2014whatever other word you might want to put to it?\u00a0 It\u2019s realizing that the whole purpose of relationships, whether they are good or bad, is to lead us into a relationship with the One who will not fail us, Who will not leave us or forsake us, Who has said, \u201cWe are bones of His bones, flesh of His flesh, we are made one with Him,\u201d and nothing can ever sever that relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, do I hear you saying this was God\u2019s mercy to strip away the idolatry in your life and say, \u201cYou\u2019ll only find what you\u2019re looking for in your relationship with Me?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 I used to\u2014yes, Bob\u2014I used to think that the strangest verse in the Bible was in the New Testament where Jesus said, \u201cIf you want to follow me, you need to leave your mother, your father, your family.\u201d\u00a0 I thought, \u201cSurely, He doesn\u2019t mean that!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I\u2019ve come to understand is that, once again, God\u2019s law to us is about loving us and protecting us; because if we follow relationships, if we find our salvation, our purpose in them, we are surely going to be let down and left empty and bitter.\u00a0 But if we do follow after Him first and find our life in Him, then relationships can find their proper place.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou see, I think what the enemy wants to do is take our broken, estranged, confusing relationships and make them the reference point; so that\u2019s what we look at, that\u2019s what we focus on, that\u2019s what we\u2019re clamoring about to try to control or manage.\u00a0 When, if we make our relationship with Christ the reference point, then those broken, confused, estranged relationships have a different meaning.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, here is where, I think, we\u2019ve got to be careful because somebody listening to this might think, \u201cOkay, so, what you\u2019re saying is if I can just get the orbit back in order, if I can get Christ at the center, then, everything will be back to normal; and I can have everything the way I want it,\u201d which is just the idolatry perpetuating itself.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cI\u2019ll jump through whatever hoops you want me to jump through, so I can get back to my idol.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s the equation that we love: If I do this and this, then, it equals that.\u00a0 When the only equation that God is interested in is when we find our life in Christ and allow His life to permeate through us.\u00a0 Then, we find meaning, purpose, stability.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let me just illustrate it personally at this point.\u00a0 The family member that I\u2019m thinking of is an extended family member.\u00a0 It\u2019s not one of my own children.\u00a0 But when I realize that I had done all I could do, that I needed to open my hand from the relationship and stop trying and release that other person from my grip and from orbiting back to-- your illustration of orbiting around that person--and put God back at the center and say, \u201cIf that never gets healed, am I going to be okay with that?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not the desire of my heart, but I need to do that.\u00a0 When it comes to mind, I continue to open my hand and release that and keep on forgiving.\u00a0 It\u2019s interesting how forgiveness is not just a one-time event.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s not.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s a continual giving up of the right to punish another person.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think this is helpful too because you\u2019re still estranged today from that family member, right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And Sharon, you and your daughter have had a reconciliation from that estrangement, haven\u2019t you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have, but we have a very different relationship where I\u2019m no longer trying to always make everything great for her and be god to her; and she\u2019s not relying on me to be god to her.\u00a0 So, we have a more healthy relationship.\u00a0 But I think that comes out of what Dennis just described, this sense of powerlessness, that we can\u2019t do anything about it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s that powerlessness that converts us and that really\u2014I mean as I look back on my journey these past 11, 12 years, I can see along the way that God was lovingly taking my failures, the sins of others, my sins, the places where I was most powerless or most hurt to take me to the relationship that matters most, which is a relationship with Him.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re kind of back to where we started with the surrender idea.\u00a0 When I really surrender, that I want Him more than I want a great marriage, I want Him more than I want healing in this estranged relationship, then He begins to do the work in our lives that puts us in the best position to be in healthy relationships.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s where I want to come back to the title of your book.\u00a0 It\u2019s <em>Begin Again, Believe Again<\/em>.\u00a0 Did you have a crisis of faith over the last 12 years\u2014your marriage crumbles, estranged relationship with your daughter, hard path?\u00a0 Did you come to a point where you thought, \u201cI\u2019m not even sure there is a God; or if there is, He may be disconnected from life?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 I certainly had many crises of faith where I wondered if He cared, if He understood, if He was going to do anything about what felt so out of my control.\u00a0 Once again, I can look back and see that every crisis of faith was an opportunity to surrender, to make an exchange\u2014an exchange of doing it my way for His way.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA few years ago, I was speaking in Alabama at an event that was a cake buffet.\u00a0 I think they only have those in the South.\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ve never been to one, but I\u2019d like to be invited if there\u2019s one coming up.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Sharon:<\/strong>\u00a0 One of the sweet women who greeted me when I first got there had read the book that I wrote 12 years ago on relationships.\u00a0 She said, \u201cOh, honey, we are so happy to have you, and we just\u2014we can\u2019t wait to hear what\u2019s happened next.\u201d\u00a0 My heart kind of sunk for a moment as I thought, \u201cWow.\u201d\u00a0 She said, \u201cI hope that nothing has changed.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t know exactly why she said that, but my response was, \u201cOh, it has changed, but all for the better.\u201d\u00a0 I really do believe that sitting here today -- that the things that God has allowed in my life have been for something better, something\u2014I think relationships, human relationships, are wonderful; and we are made for them.\u00a0 That\u2019s what I wrote that first book about, but they\u2019re to give us a taste for a relationship that will not fail, that is always faithful, that loves us when we are the most unlovely.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s why I don\u2019t regret any of the chapters that we have discussed because it is bringing me to Him.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just finished reading a book where there were two themes in the book.\u00a0 One was that there is a big story taking place of God\u2019s redemption.\u00a0 The other theme was that there is our story of what God\u2019s doing in us to redeem us.\u00a0 So, there\u2019s the big story\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014and the little story.\u00a0 It\u2019s taking place in all of us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you\u2019ve really highlighted here is how if we will move away from the little story\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014and realize there is something bigger taking place in life than our needs met and everything being perfect, but that God really does long for our attention, our worship, our love, our adoration, our surrender; and that as we come to that conclusion, that\u2019s where we can begin again and we can believe again\u2014back to the title of your book.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSharon, you\u2019ve been away from our broadcast too many years.\u00a0 I hope that you\u2019ll come back again and join us and share with us more about what God\u2019s doing in your life.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you so much for having me.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I know it\u2019s been helpful for listeners to get your perspective on the journey that God\u2019s had you on and to hear how you have processed that here on air and in the book, <em>Begin Again, Believe Again<\/em>; which by the way, we have copies of in our <em>FamilyLife<\/em><em>Today<\/em> Resource Center, as you might expect.\u00a0 You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about Sharon\u2019s book.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com, or call us toll-free if you\u2019d like to order a copy of Sharon Hersh\u2019s book, <em>Begin Again, Believe Again<\/em>.\u00a0 Our toll-free number is 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis program and the programs you hear on this station\u2014all of these programs come to you because listeners like you are a part of making that happen.\u00a0 When you help support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, when you help cover the production and syndication costs for this program or for other programs you hear on this station, you are making these programs possible.\u00a0 We couldn\u2019t do what we do without folks like you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to say thanks to the folks who do support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Some of you support us monthly.\u00a0 Some of you support us from time to time.\u00a0 We appreciate your financial support with this ministry.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis week, if you\u2019re able to make a donation, we\u2019d like to send you as a thank you gift a CD of a conversation we had with author and speaker Leslie Vernick on the subject of emotionally destructive relationships.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and make an online donation by clicking the button that says, I CARE, we will automatically send you a copy of our conversation with Leslie Vernick; or when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY and make a donation over the phone, you can ask for a copy of the CD on destructive relationships.\u00a0 Again, we\u2019re happy to send it out to you; and we appreciate your support of the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014always good to hear from you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend, and I hope you can join us back on Monday.\u00a0 Phil Vischer is going to join us.\u00a0 You know Phil from <em>VeggieTales<\/em>, right?\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about a project he\u2019s involved with right now to try to teach kids the whole story of the Bible starting in Genesis all the way through, touching every book of the Bible.\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk about what\u2019s in the Bible coming up Monday.\u00a0 Hope you can be here for that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2012 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.19M"],"filesize_raw":["25369717"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302589.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302589.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top 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earthquake of divorce doesn't just affect the spouses involved.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-09-07.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When Sharon Hersh\u2019s marriage ended, it had an impact, not only on Sharon, but on her relationship with her daughter.\u00a0 Ultimately, Sharon found she had to take the initiative for that relationship to be healed.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 For me, I had to surrender first of all. \u201cOkay, God, maybe, maybe, You intended this for good in my life, and that this is more than just a fight between mother and daughter.\u201d\u00a0 I think that\u2019s when redemptive possibilities occur, when we begin to see that there is more going on than meets the eye.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, September 7<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 When we start to see the fingerprints of God in the midst of difficult situations, we can see a lot of things start to change.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t know how many of our listeners have ever stopped to think about this, but any time there is a relational break between two people, it\u2019s not just between two people.\u00a0 There\u2019s collateral damage in any relational break.\u00a0 You may think, \u201cWell, this is just between you and me,\u201d but our lives are so interconnected that if it\u2019s you and me, there are people around us who are going to get some shrapnel from our battle.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, you are right, Bob.\u00a0 I think when a person goes through a divorce, they may think it\u2019s just the separating of two that have become one\u2014at least, in theory\u2014but it\u2019s a domino effect.\u00a0 It has an impact on children, obviously, that are in the family\u2014if there are any.\u00a0 It also has an impact on other family members\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014and the church and the community.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have someone who understands that both from a therapist viewpoint, because she is a therapist, but also from personal experience.\u00a0 Sharon Hersh joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Sharon, welcome back.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s good to be with you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI often say that divorce is the gift that keeps on giving.\u00a0 That certainly is true, as you just alluded to, in children or extended family members.\u00a0 I just read a statistic last month that, right now, in the United States, there are more adult children estranged from their parents than ever; and they really do equate it to the toll that divorce has taken on our culture.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You and your husband were divorced in 2001, and there was a period of estrangement that happened between you and your daughter following that divorce, right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and I don\u2019t know how much the divorce contributed to it, but divorce does plant a seed in the minds of children of divorce that when relationships get difficult, get out.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, in fact, let me read <em>Webster<\/em>\u2019s definition from the dictionary of what estrangement means.\u00a0 I started thinking about the word \u201cestrangement\u201d in preparation for our conversation today, and I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s kind of an interesting word, \u2018estrangement.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 <em>Webster<\/em> defines it this way: \u201cTo turn a person from an affectionate or friendly attitude to an indifferent or hostile one.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 That describes it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, now, just take it back to the application Bob was just making, you\u2019ve taken two who used to be affectionate toward each other, husband and wife, and you\u2019ve created a hostile situation there and think that somehow that poison is not going to spill over to the children\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely, it does.\u00a0 In fact, in the Old Testament, they talk about making a covenant.\u00a0 When two people come together around a lamb, they slaughter it in half; and then they say, \u201cIf anything comes between us, let it also be done to me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I can tell you about divorce is that it is much less like going to the court house and signing a bunch of papers and handing them over in a sterile environment.\u00a0 It is much more like splitting an animal in two and blood and guts go everywhere, and there is a lot of pain and gnashing of teeth, and that does trickle down to the children.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, a few years ago\u2014so maybe ten years after the divorce, my daughter who we had been extremely close\u2014and I\u2019m going to say this here, Probably too close, because what often happens in a marriage, when the marriage is not good, especially a mom will bond with her children rather than do the work to bond with her husband, which was true in my case.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy daughter and I had some difficulties arise between us as she came into adulthood, and our relationship became more hostile.\u00a0 So, over the course of a few events, she decided to cut me out of her life, probably one of the more painful things I\u2019ve ever experienced.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know in writing this book in the chapter in the book about estrangement, I have received hundreds of letters and e-mails from families saying, \u201cThis is the first time we\u2019ve ever heard somebody talk about this reality, and we\u2019re experiencing it with our son or with our daughter or with both of our children.\u201d\u00a0 I know it is a topic that touches many families.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Would you call this a prodigal situation?\u00a0 I mean was she kind of wandering off, and when you tried to uphold a godly standard, she said, \u201cI don\u2019t want to hear it?\u201d\u00a0 Or was it deeper than that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was deeper than that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think without telling her story, which is really hers to tell\u2014there was a deep wound that really came from watching her mom and dad fall apart, in watching her mom fall apart.\u00a0 I think she had a lot of anger and bitterness and resentment that she never dealt with, never expressed, never got help with.\u00a0 So, there we\u2019re back to the theme of getting help even for your children when things are going on in the family.\u00a0 And it all culminated in an estrangement that lasted for over a year.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m thinking of a family member right now that I\u2019m estranged from; and as a Christian, how do you process the Bible\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014and its commands to be at peace with all men as much as it depends upon you?\u00a0 How do you go through that process, and what is your responsibility as a follower of Christ?\u00a0 You had to go through that as a mom as you experienced the loneliness and the loss of what had been a very deep relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think one of the reasons we don\u2019t talk about it in public is because there\u2019s also shame.\u00a0 You feel like \u201cWhat kind of mother must I be?\u201d\u00a0 So, another reason to kind of hide\u2014by this point in my life, I had surrendered enough that I knew I couldn\u2019t hide, and I talked to everyone about it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCertainly, woke up many mornings, already with tears streaming down my face as I plotted and thought and had those conversations in my head of what I would say to her and how I would justify my position and tell her all the things that I have done for her all of her life and point out what she was doing and how foolish it was or how wrong she was.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was sitting on an airplane on the way to Seattle one day, and I feel like the Holy Spirit stopped me and said, \u201cSharon, just be quiet.\u00a0 Listen to what I have for you.\u201d\u00a0 So, there\u2019s that theme again of being honest and open and willing; and led me to a search in the Scriptures, really, to understand exactly what you just asked, Dennis, \u201cWhat are you supposed to do when you can\u2019t resolve something?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI do believe there are conflicts that we have in human relationships that we cannot sometimes resolve.\u00a0 I felt the Holy Spirit just saying, \u201cTake care of your own life, do what I want you to do in your daily life, and this will be okay.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019ve been in an estranged relationship that is hostile, words are said that you never dreamed would be said, and you really do feel the pain of that relationship piercing through to the very core of you, it will not surprise you to hear that I really did compare this estrangement with a crucifixion.\u00a0 It felt like I was being crucified, that I was being assaulted and insulted and talked badly about and left hung out to dry, humiliated before all my friends and my church.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you do not see estrangement in relationship as a crucifixion, it will just be a series of ugly incidents between people.\u00a0 But as you begin to see that this might be something that God has authored to destroy something, which is what crucifixion does, destroyed the power of sin and death when Christ was crucified, then you can start to ask, \u201cWhat does God want to destroy here?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 As you were talking about the crucifixion, I couldn\u2019t help but think about your book, <em>Begin Again, Believe Again<\/em>, and chapter five that is entitled <em>The Desert of Estrangement<\/em>.\u00a0 In that chapter, you begin by quoting Gene Edwards in a book, <em>Exquisite Agony<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tListen to what he says: \u201cEvery crucifixion contains certain characteristics common to all crucifixions: rejection, pain, unfairness, rumor, innuendos, more pain, misunderstanding, demeaning, belittling, loss of reputation, loss of friends.\u00a0 Often there is excommunication, the loss of all things.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 If you\u2019re listening and in the middle of an estrangement, those words are familiar to you.\u00a0 They do; they hurt; they cut.\u00a0 So, for me, I had to surrender, first of all, \u201cOkay, God, maybe, maybe, You intended this for good in my life and that this is more than just a fight between mother and daughter.\u201d\u00a0 I think that\u2019s when redemptive possibilities occur, when we begin to see that there is more going on than meets the eye.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I began to think about a crucifixion and how God uses it to destroy the power of sin and death, I began to examine my relationship with my daughter and knew there were some things that needed to be destroyed.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to make sure our listeners understand, you\u2019re not in any way trying to trivialize the agony Christ experienced on the cross.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, I think this is merely a taste of that; but certainly, leads us to a process of fellowship with Him.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The fellowship of His suffering\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014is what you\u2019re talking about.\u00a0 What did you find in this process that needed to be nailed to the cross and put to death that you hadn\u2019t seen in your own heart before?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I suspect anyone listening to this program will get this because you listen to FamilyLife because family is important; but for many of us, family becomes an idol.\u00a0 In my life, certainly, after my marriage fell apart, then, my kids were going to work.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 They\u2019re going to turn out right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to have a relationship with them where I am everything to them, and they are everything to me.\u00a0 Do you hear that?\u00a0 That\u2019s idolatry.\u00a0 I think I am a tough woman to get through to sometimes; and God had to take maybe my most vulnerable place, my relationship with my daughter, for me once again to surrender\u2014to surrender to this work in my life.\u00a0 Because it\u2019s only as we surrender to crucifixion that we are open to the possibilities of resurrection.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, how do you begin again and believe again when you have been in relationships that have shattered you, broken you, pierced you, ruined you\u2014whatever other word you might want to put to it?\u00a0 It\u2019s realizing that the whole purpose of relationships, whether they are good or bad, is to lead us into a relationship with the One who will not fail us, Who will not leave us or forsake us, Who has said, \u201cWe are bones of His bones, flesh of His flesh, we are made one with Him,\u201d and nothing can ever sever that relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, do I hear you saying this was God\u2019s mercy to strip away the idolatry in your life and say, \u201cYou\u2019ll only find what you\u2019re looking for in your relationship with Me?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 I used to\u2014yes, Bob\u2014I used to think that the strangest verse in the Bible was in the New Testament where Jesus said, \u201cIf you want to follow me, you need to leave your mother, your father, your family.\u201d\u00a0 I thought, \u201cSurely, He doesn\u2019t mean that!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I\u2019ve come to understand is that, once again, God\u2019s law to us is about loving us and protecting us; because if we follow relationships, if we find our salvation, our purpose in them, we are surely going to be let down and left empty and bitter.\u00a0 But if we do follow after Him first and find our life in Him, then relationships can find their proper place.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou see, I think what the enemy wants to do is take our broken, estranged, confusing relationships and make them the reference point; so that\u2019s what we look at, that\u2019s what we focus on, that\u2019s what we\u2019re clamoring about to try to control or manage.\u00a0 When, if we make our relationship with Christ the reference point, then those broken, confused, estranged relationships have a different meaning.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, here is where, I think, we\u2019ve got to be careful because somebody listening to this might think, \u201cOkay, so, what you\u2019re saying is if I can just get the orbit back in order, if I can get Christ at the center, then, everything will be back to normal; and I can have everything the way I want it,\u201d which is just the idolatry perpetuating itself.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cI\u2019ll jump through whatever hoops you want me to jump through, so I can get back to my idol.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s the equation that we love: If I do this and this, then, it equals that.\u00a0 When the only equation that God is interested in is when we find our life in Christ and allow His life to permeate through us.\u00a0 Then, we find meaning, purpose, stability.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let me just illustrate it personally at this point.\u00a0 The family member that I\u2019m thinking of is an extended family member.\u00a0 It\u2019s not one of my own children.\u00a0 But when I realize that I had done all I could do, that I needed to open my hand from the relationship and stop trying and release that other person from my grip and from orbiting back to-- your illustration of orbiting around that person--and put God back at the center and say, \u201cIf that never gets healed, am I going to be okay with that?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not the desire of my heart, but I need to do that.\u00a0 When it comes to mind, I continue to open my hand and release that and keep on forgiving.\u00a0 It\u2019s interesting how forgiveness is not just a one-time event.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s not.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s a continual giving up of the right to punish another person.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think this is helpful too because you\u2019re still estranged today from that family member, right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And Sharon, you and your daughter have had a reconciliation from that estrangement, haven\u2019t you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have, but we have a very different relationship where I\u2019m no longer trying to always make everything great for her and be god to her; and she\u2019s not relying on me to be god to her.\u00a0 So, we have a more healthy relationship.\u00a0 But I think that comes out of what Dennis just described, this sense of powerlessness, that we can\u2019t do anything about it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s that powerlessness that converts us and that really\u2014I mean as I look back on my journey these past 11, 12 years, I can see along the way that God was lovingly taking my failures, the sins of others, my sins, the places where I was most powerless or most hurt to take me to the relationship that matters most, which is a relationship with Him.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re kind of back to where we started with the surrender idea.\u00a0 When I really surrender, that I want Him more than I want a great marriage, I want Him more than I want healing in this estranged relationship, then He begins to do the work in our lives that puts us in the best position to be in healthy relationships.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s where I want to come back to the title of your book.\u00a0 It\u2019s <em>Begin Again, Believe Again<\/em>.\u00a0 Did you have a crisis of faith over the last 12 years\u2014your marriage crumbles, estranged relationship with your daughter, hard path?\u00a0 Did you come to a point where you thought, \u201cI\u2019m not even sure there is a God; or if there is, He may be disconnected from life?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 I certainly had many crises of faith where I wondered if He cared, if He understood, if He was going to do anything about what felt so out of my control.\u00a0 Once again, I can look back and see that every crisis of faith was an opportunity to surrender, to make an exchange\u2014an exchange of doing it my way for His way.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA few years ago, I was speaking in Alabama at an event that was a cake buffet.\u00a0 I think they only have those in the South.\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ve never been to one, but I\u2019d like to be invited if there\u2019s one coming up.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Sharon:<\/strong>\u00a0 One of the sweet women who greeted me when I first got there had read the book that I wrote 12 years ago on relationships.\u00a0 She said, \u201cOh, honey, we are so happy to have you, and we just\u2014we can\u2019t wait to hear what\u2019s happened next.\u201d\u00a0 My heart kind of sunk for a moment as I thought, \u201cWow.\u201d\u00a0 She said, \u201cI hope that nothing has changed.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t know exactly why she said that, but my response was, \u201cOh, it has changed, but all for the better.\u201d\u00a0 I really do believe that sitting here today -- that the things that God has allowed in my life have been for something better, something\u2014I think relationships, human relationships, are wonderful; and we are made for them.\u00a0 That\u2019s what I wrote that first book about, but they\u2019re to give us a taste for a relationship that will not fail, that is always faithful, that loves us when we are the most unlovely.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s why I don\u2019t regret any of the chapters that we have discussed because it is bringing me to Him.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just finished reading a book where there were two themes in the book.\u00a0 One was that there is a big story taking place of God\u2019s redemption.\u00a0 The other theme was that there is our story of what God\u2019s doing in us to redeem us.\u00a0 So, there\u2019s the big story\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014and the little story.\u00a0 It\u2019s taking place in all of us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you\u2019ve really highlighted here is how if we will move away from the little story\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014and realize there is something bigger taking place in life than our needs met and everything being perfect, but that God really does long for our attention, our worship, our love, our adoration, our surrender; and that as we come to that conclusion, that\u2019s where we can begin again and we can believe again\u2014back to the title of your book.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSharon, you\u2019ve been away from our broadcast too many years.\u00a0 I hope that you\u2019ll come back again and join us and share with us more about what God\u2019s doing in your life.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sharon<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you so much for having me.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I know it\u2019s been helpful for listeners to get your perspective on the journey that God\u2019s had you on and to hear how you have processed that here on air and in the book, <em>Begin Again, Believe Again<\/em>; which by the way, we have copies of in our <em>FamilyLife<\/em><em>Today<\/em> Resource Center, as you might expect.\u00a0 You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about Sharon\u2019s book.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com, or call us toll-free if you\u2019d like to order a copy of Sharon Hersh\u2019s book, <em>Begin Again, Believe Again<\/em>.\u00a0 Our toll-free number is 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis program and the programs you hear on this station\u2014all of these programs come to you because listeners like you are a part of making that happen.\u00a0 When you help support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, when you help cover the production and syndication costs for this program or for other programs you hear on this station, you are making these programs possible.\u00a0 We couldn\u2019t do what we do without folks like you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to say thanks to the folks who do support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Some of you support us monthly.\u00a0 Some of you support us from time to time.\u00a0 We appreciate your financial support with this ministry.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis week, if you\u2019re able to make a donation, we\u2019d like to send you as a thank you gift a CD of a conversation we had with author and speaker Leslie Vernick on the subject of emotionally destructive relationships.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and make an online donation by clicking the button that says, I CARE, we will automatically send you a copy of our conversation with Leslie Vernick; or when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY and make a donation over the phone, you can ask for a copy of the CD on destructive relationships.\u00a0 Again, we\u2019re happy to send it out to you; and we appreciate your support of the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014always good to hear from you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>We hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend, and I hope you can join us back on Monday.\u00a0 Phil Vischer is going to join us.\u00a0 You know Phil from <em>VeggieTales<\/em>, right?\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about a project he\u2019s involved with right now to try to teach kids the whole story of the Bible starting in Genesis all the way through, touching every book of the Bible.\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk about what\u2019s in the Bible coming up Monday.\u00a0 Hope you can be here for that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2012 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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