{"id":302547,"date":"2012-06-29T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2012-06-29T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/cancer-cant-kill-love\/"},"modified":"2012-06-29T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2012-06-29T15:00:00","slug":"cancer-cant-kill-love","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/cancer-cant-kill-love\/","title":{"rendered":"Cancer Can&#8217;t Kill Love"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A marriage has to face big adjustments when a health issue threatens a spouse.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-06-29.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"25.74M","filesize_raw":"26990533","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[10442,2860],"tags":[4820],"podcast_series":[7883],"cwp_profile":[8904],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302547","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-death-of-a-spouse","category-hardship-and-suffering","tag-cancer","podcast_series-caring-for-carol","cwp_profile-jim-garlow","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302547\/cancer-cant-kill-love","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302547\/cancer-cant-kill-love","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"gooxisB2Bf\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/cancer-cant-kill-love\/\">Cancer Can&#8217;t Kill Love<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/cancer-cant-kill-love\/embed\/#?secret=gooxisB2Bf\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Cancer Can&#8217;t Kill Love&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"gooxisB2Bf\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-06-29.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-06-29.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are a lot of moments in the battle with cancer when you find yourself in despair, and there are moments when God shows up.\u00a0 Here\u2019s Jim Garlow.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 There was one span where they could not stop the vomiting.\u00a0 It just wouldn\u2019t quit\u2014seven weeks of it.\u00a0 She had just vomited again on the bathroom floor.\u00a0 It was a Saturday night.\u00a0 I was cleaning it up, and I started groaning.\u00a0 I got into a pity party.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought of two pastor friends; and I started complaining mightily to the Lord, saying, \u201cThis guy\u2019s getting to do this, and that guy is getting to do that.\u00a0 They\u2019re doing all these things that I, too, am called to do; and I\u2019m cleaning up vomit from the bathroom floor, late Saturday night.\u00a0 It isn\u2019t fair, God.\u201d\u00a0 I so clearly heard an impression of the Holy Spirit saying, \u201cYou are doing, right now, the greatest ministry you have ever done in your life.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, June 29<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We get a chance today to look at what life is really like when a husband and wife are going through the cancer battle together.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 We\u2019re talking this week about health challenges that can affect families.\u00a0 When those health challenges enter in, the dynamic of marriage changes for the season that that health challenge is present.\u00a0 I mean, things that were normal are no longer normal.\u00a0 You have to make some adjustments, and that can be one of those unanticipated moments that you\u2019re not really prepared for.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, some of our listeners know the year we started FamilyLife\u20141976 was a year filled with\u2014well, the death of my dad, and emergency surgery on our one-year-old son.\u00a0 I thought I was having a heart attack in the bed where my dad had died.\u00a0 Then, at the end of that 12-month period, we rushed Barbara to the hospital with a heart rate of over 300 beats a minute, which she sustained for almost eight hours.\u00a0 I thought I was going to be a single parent of two children, under the age of two.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou talk about redefining a marriage relationship.\u00a0 In fact, I\u2019ve got a great question I want to ask our guest on today\u2019s broadcast.\u00a0 Jim Garlow joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Jim, welcome back.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Good to be with you, my friend.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jim is a pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego.\u00a0 He and his wife Carol have been married for 41 years\u2014have four children, five grandchildren.\u00a0 Here\u2019s the question because you and your wife have battled cancer\u2014and it\u2019s her cancer that she\u2019s battled; but because you\u2019re one, you\u2019ve both battled cancer.\u00a0 You\u2019ve been battling it now for five years.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou make the statement, Jim, and I want you to just comment on this.\u00a0 You say, \u201cCancer cannot kill love.\u00a0 Our marriage still stands strong.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m really glad you asked that because cancer can\u2019t kill a lot of things, and I can honestly say the best five years of our marriage have been the last five years.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now, wait a second.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 By far the best.\u00a0 In fact, my wife is not seen as being nearly as strong-willed as I am.\u00a0 I\u2019m a strong-willed guy, but what people don\u2019t know is she\u2019s a very strong-willed person.\u00a0 When you have two strong-willed people, you can have conflict.\u00a0 Every marriage has conflict.\u00a0 Ours is not immune from it.\u00a0 We\u2019ve had conflicts over the years.\u00a0 We\u2019ve been able to resolve them, always work through them.\u00a0 Most of the time, it was a very Christ-honoring way; and if it wasn\u2019t, then, I always had to apologize.\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI understand what it is to say, \u201cI\u2019m sorry.\u00a0 I\u2019m sorry.\u00a0 I\u2019m sorry;\u201d but the fact is when you get into this zone, where you realize that you could potentially lose someone that you care deeply about, you suddenly contextualize those challenges of conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 All of a sudden, the things that were really annoyances\u2014they are just there and they\u2019re not going to change, but they don\u2019t matter anymore.\u00a0 I have been astounded at my view of her\u2014her strengths.\u00a0 I\u2019ve realized how incredibly wonderful she is.\u00a0 To the point, I\u2019ve found myself saying repeatedly to her\u2014and I never said this in the first 36 years that I can recall; now, maybe I did, but I just don\u2019t recall.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor the last five years, she\u2019s heard it from me.\u00a0 \u201cI\u2019m <em>so glad<\/em> I married you.\u00a0 I am <em>so glad<\/em> I married you.\u00a0 Oh, I\u2019m glad I married you.\u201d\u00a0 The last five years, she\u2019s\u2014at night, ready to go to sleep, \u201cCarol, I\u2019m so glad I married you.\u201d\u00a0 Her strengths have become greater.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI told a guy\u2014I had a conversation\u2014spontaneous conversation, last Monday.\u00a0 We were standing out front\u2014out in the parking lot of our church.\u00a0 I said, \u201cWith each passing day, she gets better and better.\u201d\u00a0 Now, by that, I meant in my eyes.\u00a0 I don\u2019t think that\u2019s because I\u2019m delusional now; I think that\u2019s because I was a little bit blinded then.\u00a0 I\u2019m seeing what I\u2019ve had all these years.\u00a0 I\u2019m going, \u201cWow! Praise God for this woman in my life.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to read a passage of Scripture, and I want the listener to think about Jim and Carol and what they\u2019ve been through:\u00a0 six remissions\u2014depending upon how you define remissions\u2014trips to Houston, trips to Tijuana, Mexico, to try to find solutions\u2014all kinds of protocols to address cancer.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you read a definition of love like the Apostle Paul gives, and you put yourself in the valley of the shadow of death, these words have, I think, a more powerful meaning and a simpler meaning:\u00a0 \u201cLove is patient and kind.\u00a0 Love does not envy or boast.\u00a0 It\u2019s not arrogant or rude.\u00a0 It does not insist on its own way.\u00a0 It is not irritable or resentful.\u00a0 It does not rejoice at wrong doing, but rejoices with the truth.\u00a0 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things\u201d\u2014then, this last phrase, I want you to comment on this\u2014\u201cendures all things.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ll put some skin on that.\u00a0 A Saturday night\u2014it was our first eight months.\u00a0 My church was so gracious.\u00a0 They really allowed me just to focus on her totally that first eight months until we could get her back somewhat able to function normally.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was one span where they could not stop the vomiting.\u00a0 It just wouldn\u2019t quit\u2014seven weeks of it.\u00a0 There were also other, many other, challenges going on; and she had just vomited again on the bathroom floor.\u00a0 It was a Saturday night.\u00a0 I was cleaning it up, and I started groaning.\u00a0 I got into a pity party.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought of two pastor friends, right in San Diego\u2014they are very good friends of mine, who I love deeply.\u00a0 I started complaining mightily to the Lord, saying, \u201cThis guy\u2019s getting to do this, and that guy is getting to do that.\u00a0 They\u2019re doing all these things that I, too, am called to do; and I\u2019m cleaning up vomit on the bathroom floor, late Saturday night.\u00a0 It isn\u2019t fair, God.\u201d\u00a0 I so clearly heard an impression of the Holy Spirit saying, \u201cYou are doing right now the greatest ministry you have ever done in your life.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was one of those change points.\u00a0 I realized, \u201cWow!\u00a0 There\u2019s nothing I\u2019ve ever done, or perhaps ever will do, that is more significant in Kingdom eyes than cleaning up vomit on the bathroom floor, approaching midnight on a Saturday night for my wife.\u201d\u00a0 That was a major change for me.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What I hear you saying is Ephesians 5 incarnate: \u201cHusbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ve not always been the best servant.\u00a0 My wife\u2019s been a great servant of me and other people, and I learned a lesson in servanthood that I needed to learn and that there is\u2014even sometimes, I don\u2019t\u2014I\u2019m not Mother Teresa yet.\u00a0 There are times when she needs something, I go, \u201cOh man, I\u2019m too tired.\u00a0 I\u2019m too tired.\u00a0 Now, wait a minute.\u00a0 She\u2019s here.\u00a0 She\u2019s with me.\u00a0 She\u2019s alive.\u00a0 What a great privilege to get up and go get that item for her.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jim, I\u2019m going to ask you to do the impossible.\u00a0 You\u2019ve shared a couple of very poignant moments with Carol as you\u2019ve cared for her during her five-year battle with cancer.\u00a0 If you could only clip out one experience, one setting, one scene, one experience with Carol, do you know what it would be and why?\u00a0 If you could only keep one memory of these past five years, of what you\u2019ve been through?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s just\u2014I can tell you the context always is holding her\u2014just holding her.\u00a0 Most women love to be held and love to be touched\u2014maybe all do.\u00a0 It\u2019s just holding her and then, a little bit of a back rub, a little bit of a neck rub, a little bit of a scalp rub.\u00a0 We joke and laugh.\u00a0 You\u2019ve got to have a sense of humor in this.\u00a0 She\u2019s had no hair through most of this journey.\u00a0 It\u2019s come back several times; but, then, she loses it again.\u00a0 So, scalp rubs are pretty easy.\u00a0 So, holding her and touching her.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are sometimes she\u2019ll roll over and say, \u201cTouch me.\u201d\u00a0 So, I make sure, and those are the precious\u2014it\u2019s not any one specific date.\u00a0 It\u2019s just multiple times doing that and holding her tight.\u00a0 When I do that, I am just so thankful I can do that.\u00a0 I get so grateful.\u00a0 When she\u2019s in the hospital and I\u2019m home alone in bed\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014I think, \u201cOh my.\u00a0 Oh my, I don\u2019t like this.\u201d\u00a0 So, to be able just to hold her is really, really rich experience for me.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You said that three weeks ago doctors were telling you to get ready for end of life, and your wife rallied.\u00a0 You\u2019re still putting sermons together, preaching on Sunday, travelling as you can on occasion.\u00a0 I would think, in the midst of what you\u2019re in, life would have to shut down; and it did for a while in the early days.\u00a0 How have you worked out still doing life while this is going on, knowing that the roller coaster ride\u2014you don\u2019t know when you\u2019re going to be down, when you\u2019re going to be up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 How\u2019ve you done that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I do need to say, since that three weeks, she kind of dodged two bullets within a two-week span.\u00a0 We were in the hospital.\u00a0 We\u2019ve been in the hospital three times in the last five weeks, but she is\u2014the disease is considered, at this point, stable, based upon the best MRI we could do recently.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt hasn\u2019t grown in the liver.\u00a0 One-third of her liver was removed a few months ago, but it did come back in the remaining two-thirds.\u00a0 Of course, the liver does grow; and it expanded and filled up the area.\u00a0 There are still some lesions there that we are watching very, very carefully.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat has been the greater challenge is the\u2014now, five years of the toxicity of the chemo have taken quite a significant toll, which she is probably\u2014we have, for the benefit of those listening, we really have looked at so many alternatives, so many alternatives.\u00a0 We\u2019ve tried a number of alternatives.\u00a0 We are not closed to any of that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe know there\u2019s a lot of conflicting views back and forth, and we understand the dynamics of that.\u00a0 We don\u2019t fault anybody for their views either pro-, or anti-chemo, or wherever they\u2019re at; but we\u2019ve just been very proactive, aggressive on a number of different venues of treatment.\u00a0 It appears that the chemo journey may be at an end, and this kind of cancer is pretty hard to bat down without chemo.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tExactly what that spells for me in the immediate future, we really don\u2019t know.\u00a0 \u201cWe\u2019ve tried to function as close to normal as we possibly can so we wouldn\u2019t be defined by cancer,\u201d we said.\u00a0 At the same time, I probably hold a record of the number of credits I have with airlines for cancelled flights and changed schedules and having to ask to be released from speaking engagements multiple times because we have to do the ebb and flow of wherever we are at that given moment.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI am\u2014I want to make sure I treasure every day.\u00a0 Being away from her is getting a little harder.\u00a0 She\u2019s stronger than me.\u00a0 Awhile ago, I was supposed to speak at a thing in Washington D.C.\u00a0 She heard that I had cancelled because of how she was feeling then.\u00a0 She found that out.\u00a0 She says, \u201cNo, I\u2019ve been praying for years for you to have a voice there.\u00a0 You get on that plane.\u00a0 You call them back.\u00a0 You tell them you are going.\u201d\u00a0 So, I did; and she really wanted me to go.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I do recognize the reality dictates that if we were to slip to a lower posture than where we are health-wise, that there would come a time\u2014and we\u2019ve had conversations with key church leaders on, \u201cWhat does that mean?\u00a0 What might that look like?\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m not giving up at all, but I\u2019m also\u2014we\u2019re not in denial of how difficult this journey is.\u00a0 We\u2019re trying to anticipate what might be some of things in the future we\u2019d have to adjust to, to get us through some pretty rugged days, potentially.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI am walking in the way that I have called people to walk through all the sermons I\u2019ve preached.\u00a0 That is, live life in increments of about 15 minutes.\u00a0 That runs counter to what I want to be.\u00a0 I want to plan for ten years out; and in this environment I\u2019m in, we cannot.\u00a0 We do not.\u00a0 I have to do planning in very short increments.\u00a0 \u201cOkay, this day\u2014how are we doing this day?\u201d\u00a0 I can\u2019t actually, literally focus on tomorrow\u2014\u201cWhat\u2019s tomorrow going to bring?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a very existential way of functioning, but it\u2019s the exact way I\u2019ve asked people to walk in sermons.\u00a0 I\u2019m forced to walk\u2014and that\u2019s, \u201cOkay, God, I trust You in this moment.\u00a0 I cannot see beyond.\u00a0 I\u2019m still going to trust You then, but I can\u2019t see beyond.\u00a0 I have just You.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I have to ask, \u201cWhile you\u2019re hoping, and praying, and asking God to do the miraculous with Carol, you have to have imagined what life might be if He doesn\u2019t.\u00a0 Have you talked together about her death, if it comes, and about the future for you beyond that?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have.\u00a0 We have some, and it\u2019s been actually provoked, even in the last three weeks, coming out of the situation three weeks ago when the doctor didn\u2019t\u2014he read all the signals right; but where he missed it, it wasn\u2019t the cancer ravaging the body.\u00a0 It is actually the chemo.\u00a0 Specifically, one or two chemos of her protocol\u2014three that were creating all these same symptoms.\u00a0 They were pretty serious symptoms.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>That forced us into the next level of conversation.\u00a0 That has actually been good.\u00a0 That\u2019s healthy.\u00a0 That\u2019s wholesome.\u00a0 My wife does not fear death.\u00a0 She\u2019s a stronger human being than I am.\u00a0 I mean, I find myself groaning about what it\u2019s going to be like for me if this were to happen\u2014what\u2019s it going to be like for my children, what\u2019s it going to be like for these five grandsons we have?\u00a0 I have to go, \u201cWait a minute!\u00a0 Carol\u2019s the one going through\u2014what must it be like looking through the windshield from that position in the car?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s really much\u2014I realize how selfish I am at times to be worried about me and the rest of the family, but we have had more\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s interesting.\u00a0 As a pastor, I\u2019ve encouraged people to have this kind of conversation.\u00a0 I\u2019ve walked guys out of their houses, sometimes when Hospice is inside with their wife, saying, \u201cHave you talked about this?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cNo.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWell, you know what?\u00a0 You\u2019re going to have to.\u00a0 You\u2019ve got to do this now.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019ve counseled other people, but here I was putting off\u2014putting off.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, we\u2019re still, as you\u2019ve indicated by the way you framed the question\u2014we\u2019re still walking in a great amount of hope.\u00a0 We are not discouraged, but we have moved to that conversation level a great deal, not only with Carol, but also with my oldest son, who is also on staff at my church, and with my Executive Pastor for the first\u2014I mean we\u2019re talking, literally, within the last three days, I\u2019ve had conversations of that kind.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not that\u2014just so that people understand\u2014this is not out of a sense of desperation.\u00a0 It\u2019s not even out of a sense of doubt.\u00a0 It\u2019s out of a sense of, \u201cI want to be, as I walk before the Lord, as prepared for anything that could come at me in a way that would ultimately bring glory and honor to this God, with whom I\u2019m madly in love, too.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Song:\u00a0 <em>Does Jesus Care?<\/em>]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Does Jesus care when my heart is pained too deeply for mirth or song,<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>As the burdens push and the cares distress and the way grows weary and long?<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><em>Oh, yes, He cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>I know He cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>His heart is touched with my grief.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>When the days are weary and long nights dreary, I know my Savior cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Does Jesus care when I\u2019ve said goodbye to the dearest on earth to me, and my sad heart aches until it nearly breaks?<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>Is it odd to Him?<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>Does he care?<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Oh, yes, He cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>I know He cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>His heart is touched with my grief.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>When the days are weary and long nights dreary, I know my Savior cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>When the days are weary, the long nights dreary, I know my Savior cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Music ends]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, that is Guy Penrod, together with George Beverly Shea, in a duet of a classic Gospel song, <em>Does Jesus Care?<\/em>\u00a0 It\u2019s a fitting conclusion to the conversation we\u2019ve had today with Jim Garlow as we\u2019ve talked about how he and his wife Carol have battled together with her cancer.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve already mentioned this week, there\u2019s a book that we have recommended to folks in the midst of all kinds of adversity\u2014a book that has been used by God in Dennis and Barbara Rainey\u2019s lives as they have been in the valley.\u00a0 It\u2019s a book that they\u2019ve recommended to many, many folks.\u00a0 It\u2019s by Jerry Sittser.\u00a0 It\u2019s called <em>A Grace Disguised<\/em>.\u00a0 You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to request a copy of that book, if you\u2019d like.\u00a0 Maybe you know somebody who needs that kind of encouragement from you.\u00a0 Go to FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Find out more about the book, <em>A Grace Disguised<\/em>.\u00a0 You can order it from us online; or you can order it by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I hope all of you know how grateful we are for the fact that you tune in, and listen to our program, and that God is using it in your life.\u00a0 That\u2019s an encouragement, not just to us, but to our whole staff.\u00a0 We are also grateful for those of you who help support the program with donations to help cover the cost of producing and syndicating this program\u2014not only on this station but around the world on the internet.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, we\u2019ve been saying, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who make a donation by offering a CD\u2014a message from our friend, Gary Thomas, the author of the book, <em>Sacred Marriage<\/em>.\u00a0 He spoke, not long ago, at a FamilyLife event and spoke on the subject of intimacy in marriage.\u00a0 The message was very well-received.\u00a0 We thought it would be a good message to pass on to you.\u00a0 Again, it\u2019s our way of saying, \u201cThank you,\u201d when you make a donation to support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> this month.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d.\u00a0 When you make an online donation, we\u2019ll automatically send you a copy of the CD; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Make a donation over the phone.\u00a0 When you do, be sure to ask for a copy of Gary Thomas\u2019 message on intimacy in marriage.\u00a0 We\u2019re happy to send it to you.\u00a0 Again, we are grateful that you listen, and thankful for those of you who can help support the ministry.\u00a0 We appreciate you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend.\u00a0 I hope you can join us back on Monday.\u00a0 Kevin Palau is going to join us.\u00a0 He\u2019s from the Luis Palau Evangelistic Association, and we\u2019re going to talk about how we share the message of the Bible in both proclamation and in demonstration.\u00a0 I hope you can be here for that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<sup>\u00a9<\/sup>Song:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<em>Does Jesus Care?<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tArtists:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Guy Penrod &amp; George Beverly Shea\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlbum:\u00a0\u00a0 <em>Hymns<\/em>\u00a0\u2117\u00a02012 Servant Records\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2012 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.74M"],"filesize_raw":["26990533"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302547.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302547.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: 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marriage has to face big adjustments when a health issue threatens a spouse.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-06-29.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are a lot of moments in the battle with cancer when you find yourself in despair, and there are moments when God shows up.\u00a0 Here\u2019s Jim Garlow.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 There was one span where they could not stop the vomiting.\u00a0 It just wouldn\u2019t quit\u2014seven weeks of it.\u00a0 She had just vomited again on the bathroom floor.\u00a0 It was a Saturday night.\u00a0 I was cleaning it up, and I started groaning.\u00a0 I got into a pity party.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought of two pastor friends; and I started complaining mightily to the Lord, saying, \u201cThis guy\u2019s getting to do this, and that guy is getting to do that.\u00a0 They\u2019re doing all these things that I, too, am called to do; and I\u2019m cleaning up vomit from the bathroom floor, late Saturday night.\u00a0 It isn\u2019t fair, God.\u201d\u00a0 I so clearly heard an impression of the Holy Spirit saying, \u201cYou are doing, right now, the greatest ministry you have ever done in your life.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, June 29<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We get a chance today to look at what life is really like when a husband and wife are going through the cancer battle together.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 We\u2019re talking this week about health challenges that can affect families.\u00a0 When those health challenges enter in, the dynamic of marriage changes for the season that that health challenge is present.\u00a0 I mean, things that were normal are no longer normal.\u00a0 You have to make some adjustments, and that can be one of those unanticipated moments that you\u2019re not really prepared for.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, some of our listeners know the year we started FamilyLife\u20141976 was a year filled with\u2014well, the death of my dad, and emergency surgery on our one-year-old son.\u00a0 I thought I was having a heart attack in the bed where my dad had died.\u00a0 Then, at the end of that 12-month period, we rushed Barbara to the hospital with a heart rate of over 300 beats a minute, which she sustained for almost eight hours.\u00a0 I thought I was going to be a single parent of two children, under the age of two.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou talk about redefining a marriage relationship.\u00a0 In fact, I\u2019ve got a great question I want to ask our guest on today\u2019s broadcast.\u00a0 Jim Garlow joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Jim, welcome back.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Good to be with you, my friend.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jim is a pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego.\u00a0 He and his wife Carol have been married for 41 years\u2014have four children, five grandchildren.\u00a0 Here\u2019s the question because you and your wife have battled cancer\u2014and it\u2019s her cancer that she\u2019s battled; but because you\u2019re one, you\u2019ve both battled cancer.\u00a0 You\u2019ve been battling it now for five years.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou make the statement, Jim, and I want you to just comment on this.\u00a0 You say, \u201cCancer cannot kill love.\u00a0 Our marriage still stands strong.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m really glad you asked that because cancer can\u2019t kill a lot of things, and I can honestly say the best five years of our marriage have been the last five years.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now, wait a second.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 By far the best.\u00a0 In fact, my wife is not seen as being nearly as strong-willed as I am.\u00a0 I\u2019m a strong-willed guy, but what people don\u2019t know is she\u2019s a very strong-willed person.\u00a0 When you have two strong-willed people, you can have conflict.\u00a0 Every marriage has conflict.\u00a0 Ours is not immune from it.\u00a0 We\u2019ve had conflicts over the years.\u00a0 We\u2019ve been able to resolve them, always work through them.\u00a0 Most of the time, it was a very Christ-honoring way; and if it wasn\u2019t, then, I always had to apologize.\u00a0 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI understand what it is to say, \u201cI\u2019m sorry.\u00a0 I\u2019m sorry.\u00a0 I\u2019m sorry;\u201d but the fact is when you get into this zone, where you realize that you could potentially lose someone that you care deeply about, you suddenly contextualize those challenges of conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 All of a sudden, the things that were really annoyances\u2014they are just there and they\u2019re not going to change, but they don\u2019t matter anymore.\u00a0 I have been astounded at my view of her\u2014her strengths.\u00a0 I\u2019ve realized how incredibly wonderful she is.\u00a0 To the point, I\u2019ve found myself saying repeatedly to her\u2014and I never said this in the first 36 years that I can recall; now, maybe I did, but I just don\u2019t recall.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor the last five years, she\u2019s heard it from me.\u00a0 \u201cI\u2019m <em>so glad<\/em> I married you.\u00a0 I am <em>so glad<\/em> I married you.\u00a0 Oh, I\u2019m glad I married you.\u201d\u00a0 The last five years, she\u2019s\u2014at night, ready to go to sleep, \u201cCarol, I\u2019m so glad I married you.\u201d\u00a0 Her strengths have become greater.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI told a guy\u2014I had a conversation\u2014spontaneous conversation, last Monday.\u00a0 We were standing out front\u2014out in the parking lot of our church.\u00a0 I said, \u201cWith each passing day, she gets better and better.\u201d\u00a0 Now, by that, I meant in my eyes.\u00a0 I don\u2019t think that\u2019s because I\u2019m delusional now; I think that\u2019s because I was a little bit blinded then.\u00a0 I\u2019m seeing what I\u2019ve had all these years.\u00a0 I\u2019m going, \u201cWow! Praise God for this woman in my life.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to read a passage of Scripture, and I want the listener to think about Jim and Carol and what they\u2019ve been through:\u00a0 six remissions\u2014depending upon how you define remissions\u2014trips to Houston, trips to Tijuana, Mexico, to try to find solutions\u2014all kinds of protocols to address cancer.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you read a definition of love like the Apostle Paul gives, and you put yourself in the valley of the shadow of death, these words have, I think, a more powerful meaning and a simpler meaning:\u00a0 \u201cLove is patient and kind.\u00a0 Love does not envy or boast.\u00a0 It\u2019s not arrogant or rude.\u00a0 It does not insist on its own way.\u00a0 It is not irritable or resentful.\u00a0 It does not rejoice at wrong doing, but rejoices with the truth.\u00a0 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things\u201d\u2014then, this last phrase, I want you to comment on this\u2014\u201cendures all things.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ll put some skin on that.\u00a0 A Saturday night\u2014it was our first eight months.\u00a0 My church was so gracious.\u00a0 They really allowed me just to focus on her totally that first eight months until we could get her back somewhat able to function normally.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was one span where they could not stop the vomiting.\u00a0 It just wouldn\u2019t quit\u2014seven weeks of it.\u00a0 There were also other, many other, challenges going on; and she had just vomited again on the bathroom floor.\u00a0 It was a Saturday night.\u00a0 I was cleaning it up, and I started groaning.\u00a0 I got into a pity party.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought of two pastor friends, right in San Diego\u2014they are very good friends of mine, who I love deeply.\u00a0 I started complaining mightily to the Lord, saying, \u201cThis guy\u2019s getting to do this, and that guy is getting to do that.\u00a0 They\u2019re doing all these things that I, too, am called to do; and I\u2019m cleaning up vomit on the bathroom floor, late Saturday night.\u00a0 It isn\u2019t fair, God.\u201d\u00a0 I so clearly heard an impression of the Holy Spirit saying, \u201cYou are doing right now the greatest ministry you have ever done in your life.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was one of those change points.\u00a0 I realized, \u201cWow!\u00a0 There\u2019s nothing I\u2019ve ever done, or perhaps ever will do, that is more significant in Kingdom eyes than cleaning up vomit on the bathroom floor, approaching midnight on a Saturday night for my wife.\u201d\u00a0 That was a major change for me.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What I hear you saying is Ephesians 5 incarnate: \u201cHusbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ve not always been the best servant.\u00a0 My wife\u2019s been a great servant of me and other people, and I learned a lesson in servanthood that I needed to learn and that there is\u2014even sometimes, I don\u2019t\u2014I\u2019m not Mother Teresa yet.\u00a0 There are times when she needs something, I go, \u201cOh man, I\u2019m too tired.\u00a0 I\u2019m too tired.\u00a0 Now, wait a minute.\u00a0 She\u2019s here.\u00a0 She\u2019s with me.\u00a0 She\u2019s alive.\u00a0 What a great privilege to get up and go get that item for her.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jim, I\u2019m going to ask you to do the impossible.\u00a0 You\u2019ve shared a couple of very poignant moments with Carol as you\u2019ve cared for her during her five-year battle with cancer.\u00a0 If you could only clip out one experience, one setting, one scene, one experience with Carol, do you know what it would be and why?\u00a0 If you could only keep one memory of these past five years, of what you\u2019ve been through?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s just\u2014I can tell you the context always is holding her\u2014just holding her.\u00a0 Most women love to be held and love to be touched\u2014maybe all do.\u00a0 It\u2019s just holding her and then, a little bit of a back rub, a little bit of a neck rub, a little bit of a scalp rub.\u00a0 We joke and laugh.\u00a0 You\u2019ve got to have a sense of humor in this.\u00a0 She\u2019s had no hair through most of this journey.\u00a0 It\u2019s come back several times; but, then, she loses it again.\u00a0 So, scalp rubs are pretty easy.\u00a0 So, holding her and touching her.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are sometimes she\u2019ll roll over and say, \u201cTouch me.\u201d\u00a0 So, I make sure, and those are the precious\u2014it\u2019s not any one specific date.\u00a0 It\u2019s just multiple times doing that and holding her tight.\u00a0 When I do that, I am just so thankful I can do that.\u00a0 I get so grateful.\u00a0 When she\u2019s in the hospital and I\u2019m home alone in bed\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014I think, \u201cOh my.\u00a0 Oh my, I don\u2019t like this.\u201d\u00a0 So, to be able just to hold her is really, really rich experience for me.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You said that three weeks ago doctors were telling you to get ready for end of life, and your wife rallied.\u00a0 You\u2019re still putting sermons together, preaching on Sunday, travelling as you can on occasion.\u00a0 I would think, in the midst of what you\u2019re in, life would have to shut down; and it did for a while in the early days.\u00a0 How have you worked out still doing life while this is going on, knowing that the roller coaster ride\u2014you don\u2019t know when you\u2019re going to be down, when you\u2019re going to be up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 How\u2019ve you done that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I do need to say, since that three weeks, she kind of dodged two bullets within a two-week span.\u00a0 We were in the hospital.\u00a0 We\u2019ve been in the hospital three times in the last five weeks, but she is\u2014the disease is considered, at this point, stable, based upon the best MRI we could do recently.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt hasn\u2019t grown in the liver.\u00a0 One-third of her liver was removed a few months ago, but it did come back in the remaining two-thirds.\u00a0 Of course, the liver does grow; and it expanded and filled up the area.\u00a0 There are still some lesions there that we are watching very, very carefully.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat has been the greater challenge is the\u2014now, five years of the toxicity of the chemo have taken quite a significant toll, which she is probably\u2014we have, for the benefit of those listening, we really have looked at so many alternatives, so many alternatives.\u00a0 We\u2019ve tried a number of alternatives.\u00a0 We are not closed to any of that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe know there\u2019s a lot of conflicting views back and forth, and we understand the dynamics of that.\u00a0 We don\u2019t fault anybody for their views either pro-, or anti-chemo, or wherever they\u2019re at; but we\u2019ve just been very proactive, aggressive on a number of different venues of treatment.\u00a0 It appears that the chemo journey may be at an end, and this kind of cancer is pretty hard to bat down without chemo.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tExactly what that spells for me in the immediate future, we really don\u2019t know.\u00a0 \u201cWe\u2019ve tried to function as close to normal as we possibly can so we wouldn\u2019t be defined by cancer,\u201d we said.\u00a0 At the same time, I probably hold a record of the number of credits I have with airlines for cancelled flights and changed schedules and having to ask to be released from speaking engagements multiple times because we have to do the ebb and flow of wherever we are at that given moment.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI am\u2014I want to make sure I treasure every day.\u00a0 Being away from her is getting a little harder.\u00a0 She\u2019s stronger than me.\u00a0 Awhile ago, I was supposed to speak at a thing in Washington D.C.\u00a0 She heard that I had cancelled because of how she was feeling then.\u00a0 She found that out.\u00a0 She says, \u201cNo, I\u2019ve been praying for years for you to have a voice there.\u00a0 You get on that plane.\u00a0 You call them back.\u00a0 You tell them you are going.\u201d\u00a0 So, I did; and she really wanted me to go.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I do recognize the reality dictates that if we were to slip to a lower posture than where we are health-wise, that there would come a time\u2014and we\u2019ve had conversations with key church leaders on, \u201cWhat does that mean?\u00a0 What might that look like?\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m not giving up at all, but I\u2019m also\u2014we\u2019re not in denial of how difficult this journey is.\u00a0 We\u2019re trying to anticipate what might be some of things in the future we\u2019d have to adjust to, to get us through some pretty rugged days, potentially.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI am walking in the way that I have called people to walk through all the sermons I\u2019ve preached.\u00a0 That is, live life in increments of about 15 minutes.\u00a0 That runs counter to what I want to be.\u00a0 I want to plan for ten years out; and in this environment I\u2019m in, we cannot.\u00a0 We do not.\u00a0 I have to do planning in very short increments.\u00a0 \u201cOkay, this day\u2014how are we doing this day?\u201d\u00a0 I can\u2019t actually, literally focus on tomorrow\u2014\u201cWhat\u2019s tomorrow going to bring?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a very existential way of functioning, but it\u2019s the exact way I\u2019ve asked people to walk in sermons.\u00a0 I\u2019m forced to walk\u2014and that\u2019s, \u201cOkay, God, I trust You in this moment.\u00a0 I cannot see beyond.\u00a0 I\u2019m still going to trust You then, but I can\u2019t see beyond.\u00a0 I have just You.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I have to ask, \u201cWhile you\u2019re hoping, and praying, and asking God to do the miraculous with Carol, you have to have imagined what life might be if He doesn\u2019t.\u00a0 Have you talked together about her death, if it comes, and about the future for you beyond that?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jim:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have.\u00a0 We have some, and it\u2019s been actually provoked, even in the last three weeks, coming out of the situation three weeks ago when the doctor didn\u2019t\u2014he read all the signals right; but where he missed it, it wasn\u2019t the cancer ravaging the body.\u00a0 It is actually the chemo.\u00a0 Specifically, one or two chemos of her protocol\u2014three that were creating all these same symptoms.\u00a0 They were pretty serious symptoms.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>That forced us into the next level of conversation.\u00a0 That has actually been good.\u00a0 That\u2019s healthy.\u00a0 That\u2019s wholesome.\u00a0 My wife does not fear death.\u00a0 She\u2019s a stronger human being than I am.\u00a0 I mean, I find myself groaning about what it\u2019s going to be like for me if this were to happen\u2014what\u2019s it going to be like for my children, what\u2019s it going to be like for these five grandsons we have?\u00a0 I have to go, \u201cWait a minute!\u00a0 Carol\u2019s the one going through\u2014what must it be like looking through the windshield from that position in the car?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s really much\u2014I realize how selfish I am at times to be worried about me and the rest of the family, but we have had more\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s interesting.\u00a0 As a pastor, I\u2019ve encouraged people to have this kind of conversation.\u00a0 I\u2019ve walked guys out of their houses, sometimes when Hospice is inside with their wife, saying, \u201cHave you talked about this?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cNo.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWell, you know what?\u00a0 You\u2019re going to have to.\u00a0 You\u2019ve got to do this now.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019ve counseled other people, but here I was putting off\u2014putting off.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, we\u2019re still, as you\u2019ve indicated by the way you framed the question\u2014we\u2019re still walking in a great amount of hope.\u00a0 We are not discouraged, but we have moved to that conversation level a great deal, not only with Carol, but also with my oldest son, who is also on staff at my church, and with my Executive Pastor for the first\u2014I mean we\u2019re talking, literally, within the last three days, I\u2019ve had conversations of that kind.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not that\u2014just so that people understand\u2014this is not out of a sense of desperation.\u00a0 It\u2019s not even out of a sense of doubt.\u00a0 It\u2019s out of a sense of, \u201cI want to be, as I walk before the Lord, as prepared for anything that could come at me in a way that would ultimately bring glory and honor to this God, with whom I\u2019m madly in love, too.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Song:\u00a0 <em>Does Jesus Care?<\/em>]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Does Jesus care when my heart is pained too deeply for mirth or song,<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>As the burdens push and the cares distress and the way grows weary and long?<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><em>Oh, yes, He cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>I know He cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>His heart is touched with my grief.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>When the days are weary and long nights dreary, I know my Savior cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Does Jesus care when I\u2019ve said goodbye to the dearest on earth to me, and my sad heart aches until it nearly breaks?<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>Is it odd to Him?<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>Does he care?<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Oh, yes, He cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>I know He cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>His heart is touched with my grief.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>When the days are weary and long nights dreary, I know my Savior cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>When the days are weary, the long nights dreary, I know my Savior cares.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Music ends]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, that is Guy Penrod, together with George Beverly Shea, in a duet of a classic Gospel song, <em>Does Jesus Care?<\/em>\u00a0 It\u2019s a fitting conclusion to the conversation we\u2019ve had today with Jim Garlow as we\u2019ve talked about how he and his wife Carol have battled together with her cancer.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve already mentioned this week, there\u2019s a book that we have recommended to folks in the midst of all kinds of adversity\u2014a book that has been used by God in Dennis and Barbara Rainey\u2019s lives as they have been in the valley.\u00a0 It\u2019s a book that they\u2019ve recommended to many, many folks.\u00a0 It\u2019s by Jerry Sittser.\u00a0 It\u2019s called <em>A Grace Disguised<\/em>.\u00a0 You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to request a copy of that book, if you\u2019d like.\u00a0 Maybe you know somebody who needs that kind of encouragement from you.\u00a0 Go to FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Find out more about the book, <em>A Grace Disguised<\/em>.\u00a0 You can order it from us online; or you can order it by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 That\u2019s 1-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I hope all of you know how grateful we are for the fact that you tune in, and listen to our program, and that God is using it in your life.\u00a0 That\u2019s an encouragement, not just to us, but to our whole staff.\u00a0 We are also grateful for those of you who help support the program with donations to help cover the cost of producing and syndicating this program\u2014not only on this station but around the world on the internet.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, we\u2019ve been saying, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who make a donation by offering a CD\u2014a message from our friend, Gary Thomas, the author of the book, <em>Sacred Marriage<\/em>.\u00a0 He spoke, not long ago, at a FamilyLife event and spoke on the subject of intimacy in marriage.\u00a0 The message was very well-received.\u00a0 We thought it would be a good message to pass on to you.\u00a0 Again, it\u2019s our way of saying, \u201cThank you,\u201d when you make a donation to support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> this month.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Click the button that says, \u201cI CARE\u201d.\u00a0 When you make an online donation, we\u2019ll automatically send you a copy of the CD; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Make a donation over the phone.\u00a0 When you do, be sure to ask for a copy of Gary Thomas\u2019 message on intimacy in marriage.\u00a0 We\u2019re happy to send it to you.\u00a0 Again, we are grateful that you listen, and thankful for those of you who can help support the ministry.\u00a0 We appreciate you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend.\u00a0 I hope you can join us back on Monday.\u00a0 Kevin Palau is going to join us.\u00a0 He\u2019s from the Luis Palau Evangelistic Association, and we\u2019re going to talk about how we share the message of the Bible in both proclamation and in demonstration.\u00a0 I hope you can be here for that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<sup>\u00a9<\/sup>Song:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<em>Does Jesus Care?<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tArtists:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Guy Penrod &amp; George Beverly Shea\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlbum:\u00a0\u00a0 <em>Hymns<\/em>\u00a0\u2117\u00a02012 Servant Records\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2012 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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