{"id":302501,"date":"2012-04-13T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2012-04-13T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/what-is-a-man\/"},"modified":"2012-04-13T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2012-04-13T15:00:00","slug":"what-is-a-man","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-is-a-man\/","title":{"rendered":"What is a Man?"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dennis Rainey talks with well-known author and speaker, Donald Miller, about the meaning of manhood.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-04-13.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"24.55M","filesize_raw":"25742418","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2826],"tags":[4698],"podcast_series":[7483],"cwp_profile":[9037],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302501","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-men","tag-manhood","podcast_series-to-own-a-dragon","cwp_profile-donald-miller","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302501\/what-is-a-man","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302501\/what-is-a-man","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"aLd1PAPfSP\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-is-a-man\/\">What is a Man?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-is-a-man\/embed\/#?secret=aLd1PAPfSP\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;What is a Man?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"aLd1PAPfSP\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-04-13.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-04-13.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What\u2019s the difference between being a man and being a real man?\u00a0 Donald Miller wonders if we really ought to make that distinction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 The sort of language that we use in Christian circles is, \u201cA real man loves Jesus.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe tend to say, \u201cA man is \u2018something.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 Then, we put conditions upon that.\u00a0 If you grew up without a father\u2014if you have this subconscious doubt that you\u2019re \u201cone of these guys\u201d, included in these clubs; and somebody comes to you with a conditional definition of manhood\u2014as a guy, who grew up without a father, I automatically assume, \u201cI am not included in this club.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, April 13th.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 How does a guy who grew up without a father learn to embrace authentic, biblical masculinity?\u00a0 We\u2019ll find out.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I\u2019ve been sitting here, scratching my head, trying to think, \u201cWhat kinds of things did I learn from my dad?\u201d\u00a0 I mean, you learned how to throw a\u2014did you ever learn how to throw a curve ball from your dad?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, what kind of question is that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, he had a pretty mean curve ball; didn\u2019t he?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He had a mean curve ball.\u00a0 You didn\u2019t ask me if I was able to throw one as crooked as his.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s what I wanted to know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s where he got the nickname \u201cHook.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did it sink at all\u2014yours?\u00a0 Did yours go down at all?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bob, it was a curve ball.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I know, but did yours drop at all?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did it make it to the plate?\u00a0 That\u2019s the question!\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Even our guest is joining in on the mockery.\u00a0 It helped pay for my first two years in junior college.\u00a0 That\u2019s how good my curve ball was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Throwing that curve ball?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What was your record in junior college?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s not talk about that.\u00a0 By college standards, I was very marginal.\u00a0 I did not get Hook Rainey\u2019s genes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You didn\u2019t get the hook.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I didn\u2019t get the hook.\u00a0 I got the Rainey genes, but not the hook.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I guess learning to throw a curve ball\u2014in the greater scheme of things, there are more important life issues that you learn from a dad; aren\u2019t there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I had a great work ethic from my dad.\u00a0 I think a few lessons on integrity, lessons on respecting a woman, caring for a woman, taking care of your parents when they are elderly.\u00a0 My dad was a noble man, a man of character, and a man of enterprise who didn\u2019t quit, even though he grew up in and through the Depression.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Would you say you learned more from how he instructed you or what he modeled for you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s possible to sort the two out.\u00a0 I think his life and what he taught were linked together, inseparably.\u00a0 Frankly, there is hardly a day goes by that\u2014well, I\u2019ll just tell you this\u2014I\u2019ve changed my password, now, so I can tell you this\u2014but I put my password on my computer\u2014my dad\u2019s name and the year of his death, for a number of months, just because I wanted to be reminded of his life and his many contributions to mine.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a guest in our studio today who\u2014well, who comes at the father figure through a little different lens and a different angle.\u00a0 Don Miller joins us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Don, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s good to be back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ll try not to hold it against you that you laughed with Bob about my curve ball.\u00a0 Don is a writer.\u00a0 He has written many books, including <em>Blue Like Jazz<\/em>, which is subtitled <em>Non-religious Thoughts on Christian Spiritually.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Bob\u2019s read it\u2014I haven\u2019t\u2014but Bob said, \u201cYes, those are non-religious thoughts.\u201d\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0\u00a0 You did throw a few stones at some institutional issues.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, now, did I?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s interesting you were writing that book at a time that you were at\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I have a good curve ball.\u00a0 It just hit Don right between the eyes.\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You wrote <em>Blue Like Jazz<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Swung and a miss.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were working on or studying on a very liberal, secular college campus; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, I was auditing classes at Reed College, which that year, was the most godless campus in the country, according to <em>The Princeton Review<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em>.\u00a0 I wrote the book to that demographic, from within that demographic.\u00a0 It turns out that\u2019s not the wider demographic, especially in the church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were writing on your observations.\u00a0 In fact, as they read the book, it seemed very conservative for them.\u00a0 There are some Christians who have read it and thought, \u201cBoy, he\u2019s kind of living out there on the fringes;\u201d right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, but to the people I was with\u2014it was on their fringes, not on the church\u2019s fringes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you\u2019ve gone on to write another book talking about young men growing up without dads.\u00a0 Don, I do appreciate your authenticity.\u00a0 I wanted to ask you this because you begin the book saying that you had Bill Cosby as a model of what a father should be, growing up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, when I sat down to write the book, I wanted to look back.\u00a0 I started by looking back and thinking, \u201cOkay, what are my early perceptions?\u201d\u00a0 One of them was, literally, <em>The Cosby Show\u2122<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI used to watch <em>The Cosby Show<\/em> religiously.\u00a0 I would sit in front of the TV and watch that show.\u00a0 I loved it!\u00a0 I mean, I loved that program and wasn\u2019t sure why.\u00a0 Of course, now that I\u2019m older, I know that it was the presence of a father\u2014that there was a working family\u2014that any sort of dysfunction in the family was really just comedy.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t anything hyper-serious.\u00a0 I say in the book, \u201cI wanted to be Theo Huxtable.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s who I wanted to be.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Over the last two decades, you\u2019ve had a handful of men who have stepped into your life and served as mentors\u2014almost as surrogate fathers.\u00a0 They\u2019ve come along, realized what some of the deficits are\u2014and not intentionally\u2014but just, again, by their modeling and by your interaction with them, they\u2019ve helped fill in some of the blanks that were left as a result of you not having a dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want you to think ahead and imagine that it\u2019s 15 years from now.\u00a0 You\u2019re married with a son.\u00a0 What blanks have been filled in by these mentors for you that you\u2019re going to be intentional about as you\u2019re raising a boy\u2014do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are a number of them.\u00a0 The first is that the things that I want to teach my son is that God is his Father.\u00a0 This is something John McMurray, one of the guys who mentored me, taught me.\u00a0 He said\u2014made a passing comment one day that sort of stuck with me.\u00a0 He said, \u201cYou know, the kids\u201d\u2014Terri, John\u2019s wife\u2014he said, \u201cTerri and I don\u2019t see the kids as our kids.\u201d\u00a0 I thought, \u201cWell, that\u2019s a weird thing to say.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cJohn, you\u2019ve got to explain that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said, \u201cWell, of course, they\u2019re our children; but our job is to introduce them to their real Father.\u201d\u00a0 I just thought, \u201cBoy, what an incredible paradigm to say, \u2018Of course, these are my children.\u00a0 I love these children.\u00a0 God has given me these children, but my job is to say, \u201cThis is your Dad.\u201d\u2019\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was a <em>Lifesaver<\/em>\u2019s<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> commercial on, years ago, that you guys might remember.\u00a0 It was a father and a son.\u00a0 They\u2019re sitting on the side of the hill.\u00a0 They\u2019re watching the sun go down.\u00a0 The father and son are silhouetted.\u00a0 The sunset is taking place in front of them, and the father is saying to the son\u2014the son is probably eight or nine years old\u2014saying, \u201cGoing, going, going.\u201d\u00a0 Then, as the sun dips below the horizon, the father says, \u201cGone.\u201d\u00a0 The kid says, \u201cDo it again, Dad.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know?\u00a0 I just thought, \u201cThat\u2019s a beautiful picture of us\u2014as men, as fathers\u2014being able to say to our sons, \u201cLet me tell you Who is doing this.\u201d\u00a0 John would make the connection of throwing his son in the air\u2014Chris, when he was a kid, or taking Chris down to the river and showing him all the tadpoles and things that are swimming around\u2014and the delight that John takes in living vicariously through his son to the delight God is taking and making the sun rise and set every day.\u00a0 That\u2019s the primary lesson\u2014is to introduce them to their Father, which we can do, as mentors, too.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t have to be our kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I want to teach them what a man is, and what a man does, and the way that a man provides security, and strength, and love for his home so that he can grow up and do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are a lot of guys who are confused about that definition of what a man is and what a man does, even as adults today.\u00a0 The thought of passing it on to the next generation\u2014we\u2019re not really sure.\u00a0 I mean, you\u2019ve lived through the <em>Promise Keepers<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> phenomenon of the last 15, 20 years.\u00a0 Do you think men understand what it means to be a man today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 No; not at all.\u00a0 I only know that because I didn\u2019t understand that.\u00a0 Growing up, without a father, there is never somebody there to say, \u201cHey, you\u2019re a man.\u201d\u00a0 Even the sort of language that we use in Christian circles is, \u201cA real man\u201d\u2014you know, you see these bumper stickers that say, \u201cReal Men Love Jesus,\u201d and these sorts of things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe tend to say, \u201cA man is \u2018something.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 Then, we put conditions upon that.\u00a0 If you grew up without a father\u2014if you have this subconscious doubt that you\u2019re \u201cone of these guys\u201d, included in these clubs; and somebody comes to you with a conditional definition of manhood\u2014as a guy, who grew up without a father, I automatically assume, \u201cI am not included in this club.\u00a0 I\u2019m just not, because there\u2019s a condition upon it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was really important for me to realize\u2014and I talk about this in the book\u2014to realize that God created me as a man.\u00a0 There are no conditions about it.\u00a0 However, you know there are certainly conditions whether you\u2019re a good man, whether you\u2019re a strong man, whether you\u2019re acting like a man.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 If you had a son, and he came to you one day, and he asked you, \u201cDad, what does it mean to be a man and not a woman?\u201d besides the obvious biological equipment, how would you answer him?\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I would point back to God.\u00a0 I would say, \u201cYou know the perfect vision of manhood is who God is.\u201d\u00a0 What does He do?\u00a0 What does God do?\u00a0 God provides.\u00a0 God sustains\u2014this is emotional, physical, and spiritual.\u00a0 It\u2019s a very, very beautiful picture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a controversial thing, especially in the circles that I run in, to say that there is a difference between manhood and womanhood.\u00a0 I have a friend who is extremely liberal, and we were having this conversation.\u00a0 It became heated.\u00a0 She said to me, \u201cI would not want you to treat me any differently than you treat a man.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 She said this to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 I said to her\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Does she know what she\u2019s saying at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, not a clue.\u00a0 I said, \u201cLaura, really, do you want me to talk to you the way I talk to my buddies?\u00a0 Do you really want me to do that?\u201d\u00a0 She just sort of looked at me; and about three seconds went, and she said, \u201cNo.\u201d\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 Because we\u2019re rough with each other\u2014you know\u2014we love each other, and care for each other; but we\u2019re not very gentle with each other.\u00a0 There\u2019s a difference.\u00a0 I think a woman\u2019s strength is very different than a man\u2019s strength.\u00a0 We just can\u2019t allow that system to break down.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, beyond introducing your son to the Father, and helping him define his life around that relationship, what would be some basic components of helping him grow up into the man that you\u2019re talking about that he needs to become?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things you talk about in your book is the work ethic.\u00a0 You mention it over, and over, and over again.\u00a0 That\u2019s something you missed getting from a man, growing up; yet, you believe it is important today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, I\u2019ve grown into it.\u00a0 John McMurray is the guy who really counseled me about that.\u00a0 John is a landscape photographer, who was supposed to\u2014I think you guys invited him to come on, but I think he\u2019s in Sweden or Switzerland\u2014somewhere, shooting pictures. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJohn gets up, sometimes, three in the morning to hike for several hours to the top of a mountain, hoping that he might get a good sunrise to be able to take a picture of it.\u00a0 Seventy-five percent of the time he does not.\u00a0 I learned from him\u2014doing these hikes with him\u2014that you have to work very, very, very hard in order to do good work.\u00a0 John is the one who sat me down and really taught me that we do our work as unto the Lord.\u00a0 So, that everything we do, whether we\u2019re sweeping a floor, or whether we\u2019re taking a landscape photograph, or whether we\u2019re writing a book, we do it excellently because God is our boss.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s an act of praise; and this makes work make sense.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t make sense, really, if we\u2019re just doing it to get money to buy a big-screen television.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to burn out on that system; but if we\u2019re in this relationship with God, and we\u2019re saying, \u201cGod, I want to do this work excellently,\u201d \u201cI want this book to be a great book.\u00a0 I want to work very hard at chipping away at this book because, in doing that, I get a similar feeling to the one He had when He created the universe.\u201d\u00a0 I understand Him a little bit more.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What was your view of work\u2014what was your work ethic pre-John McMurray?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bob, you\u2019re asking me about the awful years when I\u2019d sleep \u2018til ten probably?\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m asking about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>He\u2019s trying to cover\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014I\u2019m asking about a little reality here.\u00a0 I mean, your first book was basically about a broke guy, driving around in a <em>VW<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> bus; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, right, right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 With no intent to get a job\u2014just kind of living off whatever.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 That was my mentality about work\u2014is that you work in order to get enough money for peanut butter.\u00a0 That\u2019s the point of work.\u00a0 It\u2019s a necessary punishment that God has given to man\u2014because of the fall of man\u2014he is going to have to work.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had this system kind of figured and would sleep as late as possible.\u00a0 Of course, you know, a couple of nights without a tent in the rain; and you figure out, \u201cMaybe I should just go get a job.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, \u201cMaybe, I ought to do something here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 All right, there\u2019s a chapter in your book entitled, \u201cGirls, the Thing Tony Said\u201d.\u00a0 Did you learn something about girls from one of your mentors?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, well, Tony is a friend\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Is this Tony the Beat Poet?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Tony the Beat Poet, same guy.\u00a0 We were having dinner up on Orcas Island, up in the San Juan\u2019s.\u00a0 Tony and I were up there, working on a writing project.\u00a0 We went to dinner that night.\u00a0 I was sort of talking about this girl that I was dating at the time.\u00a0 Tony just kind of stopped me and said, \u201cWhy do you think you deserve this girl?\u201d\u00a0 I just thought, \u201cWell, that\u2019s a\u2014I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 What are you getting at?\u00a0 What are you trying to teach me, Tony?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe just said\u2014he said, \u201cDon, you know, as I get older, I wake up next to my wife every morning.\u00a0 I\u2019m just grateful\u2014grateful that this other human being has humbled herself enough to love me.\u00a0 I think\u2014Tony said this\u2014\u201clooking back on my history and dating before\u2014there was just a lot of arrogance there.\u201d\u00a0 He just sort of let it sit right there.\u00a0 Of course, I knew exactly what he was talking about.\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe point that I\u2019m getting to, in the chapter, is that I had kind of seen that whole dynamic as a bit of a game.\u00a0 As you get older, the game gets more and more lonely.\u00a0 You just don\u2019t\u2014you really don\u2019t want that anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are a lot of single women who are listening going, \u201cI know guys like you, and you guys make us mad.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cWould you grow up, and get married, and get a wife, and get on with it?\u201d<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, that\u2019s true.\u00a0 That\u2019s true.\u00a0 There are also\u2014I have to defend myself\u2014there are also callings to and things that I could not have done\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014I would not have had the resources, a lot of those very good things\u2014without having said, \u201cI\u2019m not going to get married.\u00a0 I\u2019m not going to lead this girl on, but I\u2019m going to wait.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s been the season kind of doing this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the same time, you know, it\u2019s a sacrifice that I don\u2019t like, don\u2019t want, and hopefully will come to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014a remedy at some point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 You can e-mail my assistant.\u00a0 She sets me up regularly, I think, once a week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 As you look at this observation\u2014that there are 40 million youngsters growing up in homes, without fathers\u2014what do you fear most for that generation?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 I try to be an optimist, as much as possible.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want to sound accusational or to say, \u201cYou guys messed up.\u201d\u00a0 I also don\u2019t want to be one of these guys, who creates a big fear tactic to motivate people.\u00a0 At the same time, that said, this does not look good.\u00a0 I mean\u2014the stuff that you don\u2019t learn when you grow up without a dad\u2014you don\u2019t learn critical, critical information.\u00a0 I have a lot of fears about what could happen if something isn\u2019t done.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat said\u2014the church is in a strategic place to do a great deal of good in this area.\u00a0 There is so much hope.\u00a0 There is more hope than pain in this situation.\u00a0 You know, it\u2019s just a matter of the church has to see this pandemic that\u2019s happening in our culture\u2014the fatherless crisis.\u00a0 The church has to see it like a hurricane just hit a city, and we have to send people in.\u00a0 We have to fix the problem.\u00a0 That\u2019s what we have to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to have to start\u2014every Sunday school program, at every church in the country\u2014I just would love to have one of those programs be a mentoring foundation\u2014just ten men mentoring ten young men, ages nine to 12, every year, every year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 The manpower is there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 The manpower is there, and the heart\u2019s there.\u00a0 You talk to people\u2014the heart\u2019s there.\u00a0 It\u2019s just a matter of putting together a little bit of strategy, and some resources, and being willing to make mistakes, and knock down doors, and get it done.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s been no question, all this week, that your heart has been there as well, as Bob and I have peppered you with a few curve balls and questions\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014and they actually crossed the plate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, they did; they did.\u00a0 That was a real problem when I was a pitcher, by the way; but I have one last question I want to ask you before we\u2019re over here\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I\u2019ll tell you what\u2014before you get to your question\u2014I don\u2019t mean to interrupt you, but let me let listeners know how they can get a copy of the book that Don has written.\u00a0 It is called <em>Father Fiction<\/em>, and we've got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn this book, you reflect on your own experience of growing up without a father and the culture we live in\u2014where this is something that a lot of guys are growing up\u2014it\u2019s their experience as they grow up.\u00a0 Again, the book is called <em>Father Fiction<\/em>.\u00a0 It\u2019s by Don Miller.\u00a0 You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on how you can get a copy of the book.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Again, our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; or call toll-free at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Ask about the book, <em>Father Fiction<\/em>.\u00a0 1-800-358-6329 is the phone number\u20141-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCongratulations, by the way, on your book being made into a movie.\u00a0 <em>Blue Like Jazz<\/em> opens this weekend in theaters all across the county; and I\u2019m curious to see it.\u00a0 Hope it does well for you.\u00a0 Dennis?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s been great to have Don Miller with us, talking about young men growing up without dads.\u00a0 Don, I do appreciate your willingness to\u2014well, let us peek into your own drama and your journey.\u00a0 You\u2019re a great writer, and I\u2019m looking forward to seeing how God uses your giftedness in the future.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is a very personal thing that occurred to you right before you stepped in the studio.\u00a0 I wonder if you could just comment about it because I think it will give maybe a dad or two just a glimpse into how important they are in their children\u2019s lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You had not heard from your dad in 22 years, and he had just written you back, through your mom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to know what went through your mind as you read that letter\u2014the first words you\u2019ve heard from your earthly father in 22 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, and that happened in the foyer, outside the studio, right before we started recording.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, it literally came to you on your <em>Blackberry<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, just moments before you walked in here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 It came to me, driving into the parking lot.\u00a0 I read it once you guys were busy doing some other stuff.\u00a0 I opened it up and read it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, my feeling\u2014my dominant feeling, that I feel, is that God is working\u2014that God is just doing something\u2014that God is healing a relationship.\u00a0 It is going be beautiful.\u00a0 It could be messy\u2014whatever God wants is what's going to happen, but I just want to be able to go there and do my part.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want you to imagine a scene a few months from now when you might be together with your dad and see him for the first time since you were 12.\u00a0 Will you shake his hand?\u00a0 Will you hug him?\u00a0 What will you say?\u00a0 \u201cHey, Dad, how are you doing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Man, you guys\u2014these are beyond curve balls.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you mentioned it when\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, no.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, no.\u00a0 You mentioned it when\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, no.\u00a0 I mentioned it when I came in.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, but you mentioned it when you were a lad that you enjoyed feeling his scruffy beard.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Do you think you\u2019ll\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014feel his beard?\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, do you think you'll embrace him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Yes, I think so.\u00a0 You know, it\u2019s a weird\u2014it\u2019s such a strange dynamic.\u00a0 It\u2019s not like having a father who you really loved, and then him disappearing for 20 years, and then being reunited.\u00a0 This is literally a man that I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 There\u2019s\u2014the dominant mystery for me is, \u201cAm I accepted?\u00a0 Am I okay?\u201d\u00a0 I mean, I hate to be that selfish about it; but that's how I feel, if I\u2019m going to be honest with what's going on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose are the dominant questions that I have.\u00a0 I have no idea.\u00a0 I\u2019ve read an account where somebody felt nothing, which is kind of how I feel.\u00a0 I just feel a responsibility and desire to know who this man is\u2014a desire also to let him know, \u201cI\u2019m okay, and I hope you\u2019re okay, too.\u00a0 Whatever it is that was going on in your life, that made you walk away, maybe it wasn\u2019t okay for you to do that; but I made it, and you should move on,\u201d you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s some of that.\u00a0 There\u2019s also\u2014when I found out my dad was still alive, I sent out an e-mail to about 20 close friends that just said, \u201cPlease pray because I want my dad to know God.\u00a0 I want my dad to know God.\u201d\u00a0 Because God has gotten me through some incredibly difficult times in my life, and I know my dad has been through incredibly different\u2014I just want him to know his Father.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I don\u2019t\u2014guys, I don't know.\u00a0 Certainly, I\u2019ll shake his hand, I\u2019ll enjoy talking to him, but the reality of it is less \u201c<em>Hallmark<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>-ish\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, sure.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014than we\u2019d probably desire; but that\u2019s reality.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou read through Scripture, and that\u2019s what you get.\u00a0 You get just\u2014\u201cThis is reality.\u00a0 This is what it looks like.\u201d\u00a0 The end of the whole story, you turn around and you go, \u201cMy goodness, that is incredibly beautiful,\u201d you know?\u00a0 Who knows?\u00a0 I hope that my father\u2014you know, I get married and have kids\u2014and my father is involved in their lives in some way.\u00a0 You know, wouldn\u2019t that be beautiful if that could happen\u2014as a new person, as a new creature?\u00a0 It could happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, if you think about Christianity, where else would you look for that kind of reconciliation, redemption story?\u00a0 Life out of death\u2014maybe it will occur with you and your dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 I hope so.\u00a0 I\u2019m praying to that end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019d encourage our listeners to just pray for Don and his dad.\u00a0 Pray that it might begin the journey in which Don could take his father\u2019s hand and place it in his Heavenly Father\u2019s hand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2012 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.55M"],"filesize_raw":["25742418"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302501.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302501.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 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Rainey talks with well-known author and speaker, Donald Miller, about the meaning of manhood.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2012-04-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What\u2019s the difference between being a man and being a real man?\u00a0 Donald Miller wonders if we really ought to make that distinction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 The sort of language that we use in Christian circles is, \u201cA real man loves Jesus.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe tend to say, \u201cA man is \u2018something.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 Then, we put conditions upon that.\u00a0 If you grew up without a father\u2014if you have this subconscious doubt that you\u2019re \u201cone of these guys\u201d, included in these clubs; and somebody comes to you with a conditional definition of manhood\u2014as a guy, who grew up without a father, I automatically assume, \u201cI am not included in this club.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, April 13th.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 How does a guy who grew up without a father learn to embrace authentic, biblical masculinity?\u00a0 We\u2019ll find out.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I\u2019ve been sitting here, scratching my head, trying to think, \u201cWhat kinds of things did I learn from my dad?\u201d\u00a0 I mean, you learned how to throw a\u2014did you ever learn how to throw a curve ball from your dad?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, what kind of question is that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, he had a pretty mean curve ball; didn\u2019t he?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He had a mean curve ball.\u00a0 You didn\u2019t ask me if I was able to throw one as crooked as his.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s what I wanted to know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s where he got the nickname \u201cHook.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did it sink at all\u2014yours?\u00a0 Did yours go down at all?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bob, it was a curve ball.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I know, but did yours drop at all?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did it make it to the plate?\u00a0 That\u2019s the question!\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Even our guest is joining in on the mockery.\u00a0 It helped pay for my first two years in junior college.\u00a0 That\u2019s how good my curve ball was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Throwing that curve ball?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What was your record in junior college?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s not talk about that.\u00a0 By college standards, I was very marginal.\u00a0 I did not get Hook Rainey\u2019s genes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You didn\u2019t get the hook.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I didn\u2019t get the hook.\u00a0 I got the Rainey genes, but not the hook.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I guess learning to throw a curve ball\u2014in the greater scheme of things, there are more important life issues that you learn from a dad; aren\u2019t there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I had a great work ethic from my dad.\u00a0 I think a few lessons on integrity, lessons on respecting a woman, caring for a woman, taking care of your parents when they are elderly.\u00a0 My dad was a noble man, a man of character, and a man of enterprise who didn\u2019t quit, even though he grew up in and through the Depression.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Would you say you learned more from how he instructed you or what he modeled for you?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s possible to sort the two out.\u00a0 I think his life and what he taught were linked together, inseparably.\u00a0 Frankly, there is hardly a day goes by that\u2014well, I\u2019ll just tell you this\u2014I\u2019ve changed my password, now, so I can tell you this\u2014but I put my password on my computer\u2014my dad\u2019s name and the year of his death, for a number of months, just because I wanted to be reminded of his life and his many contributions to mine.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a guest in our studio today who\u2014well, who comes at the father figure through a little different lens and a different angle.\u00a0 Don Miller joins us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Don, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s good to be back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ll try not to hold it against you that you laughed with Bob about my curve ball.\u00a0 Don is a writer.\u00a0 He has written many books, including <em>Blue Like Jazz<\/em>, which is subtitled <em>Non-religious Thoughts on Christian Spiritually.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Bob\u2019s read it\u2014I haven\u2019t\u2014but Bob said, \u201cYes, those are non-religious thoughts.\u201d\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0\u00a0 You did throw a few stones at some institutional issues.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, now, did I?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s interesting you were writing that book at a time that you were at\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I have a good curve ball.\u00a0 It just hit Don right between the eyes.\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You wrote <em>Blue Like Jazz<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Swung and a miss.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were working on or studying on a very liberal, secular college campus; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, I was auditing classes at Reed College, which that year, was the most godless campus in the country, according to <em>The Princeton Review<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em>.\u00a0 I wrote the book to that demographic, from within that demographic.\u00a0 It turns out that\u2019s not the wider demographic, especially in the church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were writing on your observations.\u00a0 In fact, as they read the book, it seemed very conservative for them.\u00a0 There are some Christians who have read it and thought, \u201cBoy, he\u2019s kind of living out there on the fringes;\u201d right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, but to the people I was with\u2014it was on their fringes, not on the church\u2019s fringes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you\u2019ve gone on to write another book talking about young men growing up without dads.\u00a0 Don, I do appreciate your authenticity.\u00a0 I wanted to ask you this because you begin the book saying that you had Bill Cosby as a model of what a father should be, growing up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, when I sat down to write the book, I wanted to look back.\u00a0 I started by looking back and thinking, \u201cOkay, what are my early perceptions?\u201d\u00a0 One of them was, literally, <em>The Cosby Show\u2122<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI used to watch <em>The Cosby Show<\/em> religiously.\u00a0 I would sit in front of the TV and watch that show.\u00a0 I loved it!\u00a0 I mean, I loved that program and wasn\u2019t sure why.\u00a0 Of course, now that I\u2019m older, I know that it was the presence of a father\u2014that there was a working family\u2014that any sort of dysfunction in the family was really just comedy.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t anything hyper-serious.\u00a0 I say in the book, \u201cI wanted to be Theo Huxtable.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s who I wanted to be.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Over the last two decades, you\u2019ve had a handful of men who have stepped into your life and served as mentors\u2014almost as surrogate fathers.\u00a0 They\u2019ve come along, realized what some of the deficits are\u2014and not intentionally\u2014but just, again, by their modeling and by your interaction with them, they\u2019ve helped fill in some of the blanks that were left as a result of you not having a dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want you to think ahead and imagine that it\u2019s 15 years from now.\u00a0 You\u2019re married with a son.\u00a0 What blanks have been filled in by these mentors for you that you\u2019re going to be intentional about as you\u2019re raising a boy\u2014do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are a number of them.\u00a0 The first is that the things that I want to teach my son is that God is his Father.\u00a0 This is something John McMurray, one of the guys who mentored me, taught me.\u00a0 He said\u2014made a passing comment one day that sort of stuck with me.\u00a0 He said, \u201cYou know, the kids\u201d\u2014Terri, John\u2019s wife\u2014he said, \u201cTerri and I don\u2019t see the kids as our kids.\u201d\u00a0 I thought, \u201cWell, that\u2019s a weird thing to say.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cJohn, you\u2019ve got to explain that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said, \u201cWell, of course, they\u2019re our children; but our job is to introduce them to their real Father.\u201d\u00a0 I just thought, \u201cBoy, what an incredible paradigm to say, \u2018Of course, these are my children.\u00a0 I love these children.\u00a0 God has given me these children, but my job is to say, \u201cThis is your Dad.\u201d\u2019\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was a <em>Lifesaver<\/em>\u2019s<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> commercial on, years ago, that you guys might remember.\u00a0 It was a father and a son.\u00a0 They\u2019re sitting on the side of the hill.\u00a0 They\u2019re watching the sun go down.\u00a0 The father and son are silhouetted.\u00a0 The sunset is taking place in front of them, and the father is saying to the son\u2014the son is probably eight or nine years old\u2014saying, \u201cGoing, going, going.\u201d\u00a0 Then, as the sun dips below the horizon, the father says, \u201cGone.\u201d\u00a0 The kid says, \u201cDo it again, Dad.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know?\u00a0 I just thought, \u201cThat\u2019s a beautiful picture of us\u2014as men, as fathers\u2014being able to say to our sons, \u201cLet me tell you Who is doing this.\u201d\u00a0 John would make the connection of throwing his son in the air\u2014Chris, when he was a kid, or taking Chris down to the river and showing him all the tadpoles and things that are swimming around\u2014and the delight that John takes in living vicariously through his son to the delight God is taking and making the sun rise and set every day.\u00a0 That\u2019s the primary lesson\u2014is to introduce them to their Father, which we can do, as mentors, too.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t have to be our kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, I want to teach them what a man is, and what a man does, and the way that a man provides security, and strength, and love for his home so that he can grow up and do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are a lot of guys who are confused about that definition of what a man is and what a man does, even as adults today.\u00a0 The thought of passing it on to the next generation\u2014we\u2019re not really sure.\u00a0 I mean, you\u2019ve lived through the <em>Promise Keepers<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> phenomenon of the last 15, 20 years.\u00a0 Do you think men understand what it means to be a man today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 No; not at all.\u00a0 I only know that because I didn\u2019t understand that.\u00a0 Growing up, without a father, there is never somebody there to say, \u201cHey, you\u2019re a man.\u201d\u00a0 Even the sort of language that we use in Christian circles is, \u201cA real man\u201d\u2014you know, you see these bumper stickers that say, \u201cReal Men Love Jesus,\u201d and these sorts of things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe tend to say, \u201cA man is \u2018something.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 Then, we put conditions upon that.\u00a0 If you grew up without a father\u2014if you have this subconscious doubt that you\u2019re \u201cone of these guys\u201d, included in these clubs; and somebody comes to you with a conditional definition of manhood\u2014as a guy, who grew up without a father, I automatically assume, \u201cI am not included in this club.\u00a0 I\u2019m just not, because there\u2019s a condition upon it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was really important for me to realize\u2014and I talk about this in the book\u2014to realize that God created me as a man.\u00a0 There are no conditions about it.\u00a0 However, you know there are certainly conditions whether you\u2019re a good man, whether you\u2019re a strong man, whether you\u2019re acting like a man.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 If you had a son, and he came to you one day, and he asked you, \u201cDad, what does it mean to be a man and not a woman?\u201d besides the obvious biological equipment, how would you answer him?\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I would point back to God.\u00a0 I would say, \u201cYou know the perfect vision of manhood is who God is.\u201d\u00a0 What does He do?\u00a0 What does God do?\u00a0 God provides.\u00a0 God sustains\u2014this is emotional, physical, and spiritual.\u00a0 It\u2019s a very, very beautiful picture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a controversial thing, especially in the circles that I run in, to say that there is a difference between manhood and womanhood.\u00a0 I have a friend who is extremely liberal, and we were having this conversation.\u00a0 It became heated.\u00a0 She said to me, \u201cI would not want you to treat me any differently than you treat a man.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 She said this to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 I said to her\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Does she know what she\u2019s saying at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, not a clue.\u00a0 I said, \u201cLaura, really, do you want me to talk to you the way I talk to my buddies?\u00a0 Do you really want me to do that?\u201d\u00a0 She just sort of looked at me; and about three seconds went, and she said, \u201cNo.\u201d\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 Because we\u2019re rough with each other\u2014you know\u2014we love each other, and care for each other; but we\u2019re not very gentle with each other.\u00a0 There\u2019s a difference.\u00a0 I think a woman\u2019s strength is very different than a man\u2019s strength.\u00a0 We just can\u2019t allow that system to break down.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, beyond introducing your son to the Father, and helping him define his life around that relationship, what would be some basic components of helping him grow up into the man that you\u2019re talking about that he needs to become?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things you talk about in your book is the work ethic.\u00a0 You mention it over, and over, and over again.\u00a0 That\u2019s something you missed getting from a man, growing up; yet, you believe it is important today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, I\u2019ve grown into it.\u00a0 John McMurray is the guy who really counseled me about that.\u00a0 John is a landscape photographer, who was supposed to\u2014I think you guys invited him to come on, but I think he\u2019s in Sweden or Switzerland\u2014somewhere, shooting pictures. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJohn gets up, sometimes, three in the morning to hike for several hours to the top of a mountain, hoping that he might get a good sunrise to be able to take a picture of it.\u00a0 Seventy-five percent of the time he does not.\u00a0 I learned from him\u2014doing these hikes with him\u2014that you have to work very, very, very hard in order to do good work.\u00a0 John is the one who sat me down and really taught me that we do our work as unto the Lord.\u00a0 So, that everything we do, whether we\u2019re sweeping a floor, or whether we\u2019re taking a landscape photograph, or whether we\u2019re writing a book, we do it excellently because God is our boss.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s an act of praise; and this makes work make sense.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t make sense, really, if we\u2019re just doing it to get money to buy a big-screen television.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to burn out on that system; but if we\u2019re in this relationship with God, and we\u2019re saying, \u201cGod, I want to do this work excellently,\u201d \u201cI want this book to be a great book.\u00a0 I want to work very hard at chipping away at this book because, in doing that, I get a similar feeling to the one He had when He created the universe.\u201d\u00a0 I understand Him a little bit more.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What was your view of work\u2014what was your work ethic pre-John McMurray?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bob, you\u2019re asking me about the awful years when I\u2019d sleep \u2018til ten probably?\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m asking about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>He\u2019s trying to cover\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014I\u2019m asking about a little reality here.\u00a0 I mean, your first book was basically about a broke guy, driving around in a <em>VW<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> bus; right?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, right, right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 With no intent to get a job\u2014just kind of living off whatever.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 That was my mentality about work\u2014is that you work in order to get enough money for peanut butter.\u00a0 That\u2019s the point of work.\u00a0 It\u2019s a necessary punishment that God has given to man\u2014because of the fall of man\u2014he is going to have to work.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had this system kind of figured and would sleep as late as possible.\u00a0 Of course, you know, a couple of nights without a tent in the rain; and you figure out, \u201cMaybe I should just go get a job.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, \u201cMaybe, I ought to do something here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 All right, there\u2019s a chapter in your book entitled, \u201cGirls, the Thing Tony Said\u201d.\u00a0 Did you learn something about girls from one of your mentors?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, well, Tony is a friend\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Is this Tony the Beat Poet?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Tony the Beat Poet, same guy.\u00a0 We were having dinner up on Orcas Island, up in the San Juan\u2019s.\u00a0 Tony and I were up there, working on a writing project.\u00a0 We went to dinner that night.\u00a0 I was sort of talking about this girl that I was dating at the time.\u00a0 Tony just kind of stopped me and said, \u201cWhy do you think you deserve this girl?\u201d\u00a0 I just thought, \u201cWell, that\u2019s a\u2014I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 What are you getting at?\u00a0 What are you trying to teach me, Tony?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe just said\u2014he said, \u201cDon, you know, as I get older, I wake up next to my wife every morning.\u00a0 I\u2019m just grateful\u2014grateful that this other human being has humbled herself enough to love me.\u00a0 I think\u2014Tony said this\u2014\u201clooking back on my history and dating before\u2014there was just a lot of arrogance there.\u201d\u00a0 He just sort of let it sit right there.\u00a0 Of course, I knew exactly what he was talking about.\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe point that I\u2019m getting to, in the chapter, is that I had kind of seen that whole dynamic as a bit of a game.\u00a0 As you get older, the game gets more and more lonely.\u00a0 You just don\u2019t\u2014you really don\u2019t want that anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are a lot of single women who are listening going, \u201cI know guys like you, and you guys make us mad.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cWould you grow up, and get married, and get a wife, and get on with it?\u201d<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, that\u2019s true.\u00a0 That\u2019s true.\u00a0 There are also\u2014I have to defend myself\u2014there are also callings to and things that I could not have done\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014I would not have had the resources, a lot of those very good things\u2014without having said, \u201cI\u2019m not going to get married.\u00a0 I\u2019m not going to lead this girl on, but I\u2019m going to wait.\u201d\u00a0 It\u2019s been the season kind of doing this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt the same time, you know, it\u2019s a sacrifice that I don\u2019t like, don\u2019t want, and hopefully will come to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014a remedy at some point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 You can e-mail my assistant.\u00a0 She sets me up regularly, I think, once a week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 As you look at this observation\u2014that there are 40 million youngsters growing up in homes, without fathers\u2014what do you fear most for that generation?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 I try to be an optimist, as much as possible.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want to sound accusational or to say, \u201cYou guys messed up.\u201d\u00a0 I also don\u2019t want to be one of these guys, who creates a big fear tactic to motivate people.\u00a0 At the same time, that said, this does not look good.\u00a0 I mean\u2014the stuff that you don\u2019t learn when you grow up without a dad\u2014you don\u2019t learn critical, critical information.\u00a0 I have a lot of fears about what could happen if something isn\u2019t done.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat said\u2014the church is in a strategic place to do a great deal of good in this area.\u00a0 There is so much hope.\u00a0 There is more hope than pain in this situation.\u00a0 You know, it\u2019s just a matter of the church has to see this pandemic that\u2019s happening in our culture\u2014the fatherless crisis.\u00a0 The church has to see it like a hurricane just hit a city, and we have to send people in.\u00a0 We have to fix the problem.\u00a0 That\u2019s what we have to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to have to start\u2014every Sunday school program, at every church in the country\u2014I just would love to have one of those programs be a mentoring foundation\u2014just ten men mentoring ten young men, ages nine to 12, every year, every year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 The manpower is there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 The manpower is there, and the heart\u2019s there.\u00a0 You talk to people\u2014the heart\u2019s there.\u00a0 It\u2019s just a matter of putting together a little bit of strategy, and some resources, and being willing to make mistakes, and knock down doors, and get it done.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s been no question, all this week, that your heart has been there as well, as Bob and I have peppered you with a few curve balls and questions\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014and they actually crossed the plate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, they did; they did.\u00a0 That was a real problem when I was a pitcher, by the way; but I have one last question I want to ask you before we\u2019re over here\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I\u2019ll tell you what\u2014before you get to your question\u2014I don\u2019t mean to interrupt you, but let me let listeners know how they can get a copy of the book that Don has written.\u00a0 It is called <em>Father Fiction<\/em>, and we've got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn this book, you reflect on your own experience of growing up without a father and the culture we live in\u2014where this is something that a lot of guys are growing up\u2014it\u2019s their experience as they grow up.\u00a0 Again, the book is called <em>Father Fiction<\/em>.\u00a0 It\u2019s by Don Miller.\u00a0 You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on how you can get a copy of the book.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Again, our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; or call toll-free at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Ask about the book, <em>Father Fiction<\/em>.\u00a0 1-800-358-6329 is the phone number\u20141-800- \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then, the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCongratulations, by the way, on your book being made into a movie.\u00a0 <em>Blue Like Jazz<\/em> opens this weekend in theaters all across the county; and I\u2019m curious to see it.\u00a0 Hope it does well for you.\u00a0 Dennis?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s been great to have Don Miller with us, talking about young men growing up without dads.\u00a0 Don, I do appreciate your willingness to\u2014well, let us peek into your own drama and your journey.\u00a0 You\u2019re a great writer, and I\u2019m looking forward to seeing how God uses your giftedness in the future.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is a very personal thing that occurred to you right before you stepped in the studio.\u00a0 I wonder if you could just comment about it because I think it will give maybe a dad or two just a glimpse into how important they are in their children\u2019s lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You had not heard from your dad in 22 years, and he had just written you back, through your mom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to know what went through your mind as you read that letter\u2014the first words you\u2019ve heard from your earthly father in 22 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, and that happened in the foyer, outside the studio, right before we started recording.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, it literally came to you on your <em>Blackberry<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, just moments before you walked in here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 It came to me, driving into the parking lot.\u00a0 I read it once you guys were busy doing some other stuff.\u00a0 I opened it up and read it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, my feeling\u2014my dominant feeling, that I feel, is that God is working\u2014that God is just doing something\u2014that God is healing a relationship.\u00a0 It is going be beautiful.\u00a0 It could be messy\u2014whatever God wants is what's going to happen, but I just want to be able to go there and do my part.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want you to imagine a scene a few months from now when you might be together with your dad and see him for the first time since you were 12.\u00a0 Will you shake his hand?\u00a0 Will you hug him?\u00a0 What will you say?\u00a0 \u201cHey, Dad, how are you doing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Man, you guys\u2014these are beyond curve balls.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you mentioned it when\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, no.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, no.\u00a0 You mentioned it when\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, no.\u00a0 I mentioned it when I came in.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, but you mentioned it when you were a lad that you enjoyed feeling his scruffy beard.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Do you think you\u2019ll\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014feel his beard?\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, do you think you'll embrace him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Yes, I think so.\u00a0 You know, it\u2019s a weird\u2014it\u2019s such a strange dynamic.\u00a0 It\u2019s not like having a father who you really loved, and then him disappearing for 20 years, and then being reunited.\u00a0 This is literally a man that I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 There\u2019s\u2014the dominant mystery for me is, \u201cAm I accepted?\u00a0 Am I okay?\u201d\u00a0 I mean, I hate to be that selfish about it; but that's how I feel, if I\u2019m going to be honest with what's going on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose are the dominant questions that I have.\u00a0 I have no idea.\u00a0 I\u2019ve read an account where somebody felt nothing, which is kind of how I feel.\u00a0 I just feel a responsibility and desire to know who this man is\u2014a desire also to let him know, \u201cI\u2019m okay, and I hope you\u2019re okay, too.\u00a0 Whatever it is that was going on in your life, that made you walk away, maybe it wasn\u2019t okay for you to do that; but I made it, and you should move on,\u201d you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s some of that.\u00a0 There\u2019s also\u2014when I found out my dad was still alive, I sent out an e-mail to about 20 close friends that just said, \u201cPlease pray because I want my dad to know God.\u00a0 I want my dad to know God.\u201d\u00a0 Because God has gotten me through some incredibly difficult times in my life, and I know my dad has been through incredibly different\u2014I just want him to know his Father.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, I don\u2019t\u2014guys, I don't know.\u00a0 Certainly, I\u2019ll shake his hand, I\u2019ll enjoy talking to him, but the reality of it is less \u201c<em>Hallmark<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>-ish\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, sure.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2014than we\u2019d probably desire; but that\u2019s reality.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou read through Scripture, and that\u2019s what you get.\u00a0 You get just\u2014\u201cThis is reality.\u00a0 This is what it looks like.\u201d\u00a0 The end of the whole story, you turn around and you go, \u201cMy goodness, that is incredibly beautiful,\u201d you know?\u00a0 Who knows?\u00a0 I hope that my father\u2014you know, I get married and have kids\u2014and my father is involved in their lives in some way.\u00a0 You know, wouldn\u2019t that be beautiful if that could happen\u2014as a new person, as a new creature?\u00a0 It could happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, if you think about Christianity, where else would you look for that kind of reconciliation, redemption story?\u00a0 Life out of death\u2014maybe it will occur with you and your dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Don:<\/strong>\u00a0 I hope so.\u00a0 I\u2019m praying to that end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019d encourage our listeners to just pray for Don and his dad.\u00a0 Pray that it might begin the journey in which Don could take his father\u2019s hand and place it in his Heavenly Father\u2019s hand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2012 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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