{"id":302407,"date":"2011-11-21T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2011-11-21T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/gleaning-spiritual-truths-from-history\/"},"modified":"2011-11-21T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2011-11-21T17:00:00","slug":"gleaning-spiritual-truths-from-history","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gleaning-spiritual-truths-from-history\/","title":{"rendered":"Gleaning Spiritual Truths From History"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Why is history fundamental to the faith?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-11-21.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.59M","filesize_raw":"24735376","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[4929,4722,4159],"podcast_series":[7841],"cwp_profile":[9167],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302407","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-christian-life","tag-christianity","tag-gospel","podcast_series-water-from-a-deep-well","cwp_profile-jerry-sittser","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302407\/gleaning-spiritual-truths-from-history","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302407\/gleaning-spiritual-truths-from-history","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"bQQ1f8ANOH\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gleaning-spiritual-truths-from-history\/\">Gleaning Spiritual Truths From History<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gleaning-spiritual-truths-from-history\/embed\/#?secret=bQQ1f8ANOH\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Gleaning Spiritual Truths From History&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"bQQ1f8ANOH\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Why is history fundamental to the faith?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-11-21.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Is it possible that reading the Bible, and reading only through 21<sup>st-<\/sup>century eyes, we can come up with some wrong conclusions about what God is saying to us?\u00a0 Jerry Sittser thinks so.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re partly informed by how we read the Bible by our own age, our own prejudices, and our own experiences.\u00a0 The problem is that we don\u2019t just have the Bible\u2014we have to read it and interpret it.\u00a0 In the process of reading and interpreting it, we can develop blind spots.\u00a0 We can transcend that by reading the same Bible with 2,000 years of history in mind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, November 21<sup>st<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife\u00ae, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0\u00a0 Jerry Sittser joins us today to help us understand how what our brothers and sisters, who lived in previous centuries, thought about the Bible can expand our own understanding of Who God is and what His Word is saying to us.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0\u00a0 This is going to be a little bit of a departure from a normal <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> program.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0I wondered how you were going to set this up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I have to tell you\u2014for years, I\u2019ve told people that, \u201cWhen it comes to the issue of our heritage as Christians, most people, I think, believe that the church was born in Acts, Chapter 2, and then there was the great silent period until Billy Graham was born.\u201d\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 That\u2019s about all we know about the legacy of the church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Unfortunately, I think you\u2019re right, Bob; but I want to encourage our listeners to hang with us as we talk to a true church historian and someone who has done some serious work around the story of Christianity over the past 2,000 years.\u00a0 In fact, you know a book is serious when the footnoted section at the end of the book is longer than most of the books I\u2019ve written.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you know a book is serious when you look through it\u2014and the highlighting\u2014there\u2019s more highlighted than not highlighted in the book; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 Well, we need to introduce the author of the book, <em>Water from a Deep Well<\/em>.\u00a0 Dr. Jerry Sittser joins us again.\u00a0 Welcome back, Jerry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s great to be back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is good to have you back.\u00a0 Jerry is a friend; but in addition to that, he is a writer, professor at Whitworth University in Spokane, Washington, where he has been named the most influential professor seven times.\u00a0 He is the father of three, and he is also a bee-keeper with his daughter, Catherine.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 I used to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Four hundred thirty pounds of honey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 In one summer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Amazing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Three hives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Mm-hmm.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 They were busy as a bee; weren\u2019t they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 They were\u2014in our back yard.\u00a0 Neighbors loved me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did you have one of those suits that you\u2019d put on that was\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Put on a suit and everything.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 I have stories that are hilarious with our bees.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well just give us one here; alright?\u2014just one story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we had a swarm once the day my youngest son had his birthday.\u00a0 Eight little boys were over, and I had to collect the swarm that was in a neighbor\u2019s low-lying tree.\u00a0 I got on my suit and went over there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, now, let me explain something because some of our listeners may not know what a swarm is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m just picturing a bunch of bees buzzing around someplace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We live in the country, and we woke up one morning and looked out at a\u2014I think it was an oak tree that usually was straight up into the air.\u00a0 At this point, it was bending down with a glob of bees.\u00a0 There had to be tens of thousands of bees.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 That would be correct.\u00a0 The old queen bolts when a new queen is being raised; and she takes, maybe, 20,000 or 30,000 bees with her.\u00a0 In this case, they settled in a low-lying tree four doors away; so somebody called me.\u00a0 I went over there with the stuff I needed to collect the swarm.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese little boys were all running around, just so excited.\u00a0 They were <em>ecstatic<\/em>.\u00a0 One of the mothers drives up, jumps out of the car screaming, and says, \u201cMy son, my son!\u00a0 He\u2019s allergic to bees!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 It was quite comical.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not a good place to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 He was not at much risk, honestly.\u00a0 The bees were all clumped together, and they actually don\u2019t sting you very much if you know how to handle them and so on.\u00a0 But it was quite a funny event.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jerry, you have taught at Whitworth University.\u00a0 I mentioned that earlier.\u00a0 A number of years ago, in 1993, you took 15 students to a camp in the Cascades for a month.\u00a0 You taught them the history of Christianity, and you write in your book that it had a tremendous impact on them\u2014but even more so on you.\u00a0 It started you on a journey; didn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 It did.\u00a0 It was a lovely experience\u201425 students were in complete isolation.\u00a0 I still do the experience; and now, I require them to fast from all media.\u00a0 Now in 1993 that wasn\u2019t as significant as it is today.\u00a0 We followed a kind of monastic rhythm.\u00a0 We had worship in the morning, afternoon, and evening.\u00a0 We studied great texts.\u00a0 We did service projects at the camp; and we did a lot of spiritual exercises.\u00a0 It was a life-changing experience for them; but it ended up being for me, too, because I became curious about the history of Christianity as a practiced faith, not simply a kind of thinking faith.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tChristians have prayed for 2,000 years, as shocking as that sounds.\u00a0 They\u2019ve fasted, they\u2019ve done evangelism, they\u2019ve reached out to neighbors, they\u2019ve done family life, they have been living real lives for 2,000 years.\u00a0 I became intensely interested in how that played out in normal life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And in the process of doing your research on this, you literally have read hundreds, if not thousands, of books?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well certainly hundreds.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 And I mean, if you would count chapters and so on, then it would get up into the thousands\u2014sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you say you have a favorite that is above all books that you have ever read.\u00a0 I want to write that book down.\u00a0 Share with our listeners what that book is and why.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is Augustine\u2019s <em>Confessions<\/em>.\u00a0 Here is a man who lived this very interesting life.\u00a0 He was exposed to Christianity at a young age.\u00a0 His mother Monica, now Santa Monica, the patron saint of motherhood in the Roman Catholic Church, raised him as a Christian.\u00a0 His father was a public official and not a believer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe was very precocious, I mean, frighteningly smart at a young age.\u00a0 He rejected the Christian faith when he was still young and really lived a wanton life for a long time\u2014took up a mistress, practiced a life that none of us would be glad our children were doing, and began to sample the various philosophies and world-view options that were then at his disposal in the late fourth century, and finally started coming back to the faith and had a genuine conversion at the age of 30.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe became a professor, later on a bishop in the church, and wrote voluminously.\u00a0 He has written more than we\u2019ll read in a lifetime.\u00a0 It is phenomenal how productive.\u00a0 But this particular book is significant, and here\u2019s why:\u00a0 He reflects on his own journey to knowledge of Jesus Christ\u2014relationship with Jesus Christ\u2014and he does it in the form of a prayer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat this does is create this enormously intricate and interesting narrative pattern.\u00a0 He writes about his life as a human being; but he writes about it, reflecting on his relationship with God at the same time.\u00a0 So he will say, \u201cLord, this is what I was doing, and this is what You were trying to do in me at the same time.\u00a0 I was doing foolish things and You were laughing at me.\u201d\u00a0 He says.\u00a0 \u201cYou were exposing me to the consequences of my own sin so I would turn to You.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is this <em>fascinating, fabulous<\/em> way of reflecting on his own journey of faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And of course, the first page of the <em>Confessions<\/em> is where we find that great quote that says, \u201cThe heart is restless until it finds its rest in Him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And the story of his conversion is a fascinating one, as well.\u00a0 He was out in his garden; is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 He was in his garden.\u00a0 By this point, he was in absolute internal torment.\u00a0 He had discovered through his study, and so on, that the Christian faith was true.\u00a0 He believed the Bible was true.\u00a0 He believed Jesus Christ was the Son of God, Who had come and died, and saved him from his own sin\u2014all of that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut still, he could not become a Christian because of the battle within his own will.\u00a0 He had a divided self, as all of us do.\u00a0 It finally reached this fever pitch when he was in the garden.\u00a0 He was with his best friend, Olympius; and he was so tormented\u2014he slipped away by himself to pray, to weep, to struggle.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe heard two children playing on the other side of this garden wall, one saying to the other, \u201cTake up and read; take up and read,\u201d\u2014some childhood game.\u00a0 He took that as a cue from the Holy Spirit\u2014goes back to where Olympius is sitting, grabs a collection of Paul\u2019s letters, opens it up randomly, puts his finger on the page and comes up with a text from Romans 13.\u00a0 He reads it; and right there and then, he turns his life to Christ and gives himself up to Him.\u00a0 It\u2019s quite a story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It really is; and interestingly, you write in your book\u2014and this is really what prompted you to put this book together, <em>Water from a Deep Well.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>You say that we, as Christians, can come dangerously close to living a very narrow life, thinking that the Christianity that we practice in our era is really it\u2014that it is <em>the<\/em> way to know God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou went on this search and actually came up with 11different eras, with all kinds of lessons about what believers in times past learned and what they have to teach us today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I think it\u2019s possible\u2014likely, even\u2014for us to become prisoners to our own era.\u00a0 Now, that doesn\u2019t mean that everything we do and believe is wrong.\u00a0 Much of what we believe is right and good; and someday, when historians are writing about our period, they\u2019ll say, \u201cDennis, and Bob, and Jerry, and a whole lot of other people\u2014they really got this one right, and we\u2019re grateful for it.\u00a0 It\u2019s a part of the heritage that we value now\u2014but not everything.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re protected from ourselves\u2014we\u2019re released from the prison of our own age, our amnesia and isolation if we can draw from the well of Christians who have lived for 2,000 years.\u00a0 Now, they didn\u2019t get everything right, either.\u00a0 The advantage is, \u201cWe know where they got things wrong because it\u2019s over and done with.\u201d\u00a0 We don\u2019t know that so well about ourselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me give you an example.\u00a0 There were other Christians in other eras who read the same Bible we read.\u00a0 That\u2019s been done for almost 2,000 years now, and they just read it differently.\u00a0 They focused on some texts that we tend to overlook, ignore\u2014say, a text like, \u201cHow you use money.\u201d\u00a0 The Bible has a lot to say about money, and that\u2019s a blind spot for us; and it wasn\u2019t in other eras, for example\u2014or, \u201cThe imitation of Jesus,\u201d\u2014and so it enlarges us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMore than that, I think it protects us from becoming lonely and isolated.\u00a0 We belong to a family that\u2019s much bigger than the three people sitting around this table, and our friends, and our churches.\u00a0 That family goes back 2,000 years.\u00a0 They were as flawed as we are.\u00a0 They had blind spots like we have; but we can get to know them and become, in a sense, family with them\u2014partners with them as we try to live out the Gospel today.\u00a0 It\u2019s a lovely thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You actually say that Christians today have an advantage over those who lived way back then because we have the advantage of peering over their shoulders.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s the advantage of chronology.\u00a0 We have more information than they had.\u00a0 We can look back and learn from them; they could not look ahead and learn from us.\u00a0 It\u2019s an enormous advantage for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 How would you respond, though, Jerry to those who would say, \u201cYou know, we\u2019ve got the Scriptures.\u00a0 We don\u2019t need anything other than the Scriptures.\u00a0 In fact, Peter tells us that, \u2018all that is necessary for godliness\u2014for life and godliness\u2019 is found in the Scriptures.\u00a0 So the study of history is really secondary.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it is secondary.\u00a0 In a sense, Bob, I believe that\u2019s true\u2014that the Bible has unique authority.\u00a0 It is the Word of God.\u00a0 It tells us all the necessary information we need to know about salvation history and especially about the fulfillment, the culmination of that in the coming of Jesus Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wouldn\u2019t dispute any of that.\u00a0 The problem is that we don\u2019t just have the Bible.\u00a0 We have to read it and interpret it.\u00a0 In the process of reading and interpreting it, we can develop blind spots.\u00a0 We are partly informed by how we read the Bible by our own age, our own prejudices, and our own experiences.\u00a0 We can be enlarged; we can transcend that by reading the same Bible with 2,000 years of history in mind because they read that Bible.\u00a0 They just read it slightly differently.\u00a0 It\u2019s not like they changed it\u2014not the broad orthodox Christian community that has existed for 2,000 years.\u00a0 That can be <em>enormously<\/em> helpful to us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well Jerry, as I read the book, I kept wanting to\u2014I wished you were there\u2014because I wanted to say, \u201cNow, Jerry, you did all this research on these 11 different eras; and you said this had a profound impact on your life.\u00a0 Can you give me two or three take-aways of what this has done for your own pursuit of God, practically speaking?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 I can.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I figured you could.\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s take what I call the spirituality of the early Christian martyrs.\u00a0 In the first few hundred years of church history, when the church was still a minority movement\u2014it was a very small movement for a long period of time.\u00a0 We can\u2019t get the impression that you\u2019ve got gigantic cathedrals and so on.\u00a0 The church didn\u2019t even have any church buildings as we understand them today until well into the fourth century.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRome\u2014this huge, sprawling empire, wrapping itself around the Mediterranean Sea\u2014was actually tolerant of religion.\u00a0 They didn\u2019t always like religions, especially new ones that came from the East, but they were tolerant of religion\u2014all except Christianity.\u00a0 There was something about Christianity that became an enormous irritation to the Roman Empire.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere were a number of reasons for this; but ultimately, they were a threat to Rome because they called Jesus, \u201cLord.\u201d\u00a0 It was their exclusive commitment to Jesus Christ as Lord and to the Christian faith that ultimately rattled Rome so profoundly.\u00a0 Rome said, \u201cWe\u2019ll tolerate any religion, as long as we\u2019re number one.\u201d\u00a0 Well, Christians said, \u201cSorry.\u00a0 Jesus is number one.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, in the early Christian period, you have a lot of these wonderful martyr stories\u2014of people who, under <em>enormous<\/em> pressure, were willing to submit their lives to the arena, to the sword, rather than to betray their commitment to Jesus Christ.\u00a0 It awakens me; it inspires me to see people who are willing to pay the ultimate price for being followers of Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And as a result of studying these martyrs\u2019 deaths on behalf of their service for Christ and love for Christ, you\u2019ve personally been challenged to go deeper and to practice some of those same spiritual disciplines that Christians of old have practiced\u2014that seem to be missing today\u2014the discipline of fasting, the discipline of meditation\u2014that\u2019s a lot of what you do when you take your students away for 30 days.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 I try to expose them to a broader range of spiritual disciplines than we would find current today.\u00a0 For example, the discipline of serious self-examination, which you find in the desert fathers, for example.\u00a0 Another one\u2014and this will lead to a second practice and example that I like is monastic rhythm.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe monastery, which to us seems like this foreign, strange, isolated kind of institution today, was really the carrier of culture in the Middle Ages.\u00a0 They began to emerge in the fifth, sixth century; and when, especially the western part of the Roman Empire collapsed with the invasion of various tribal groups\u2014we used to call them \u201cBarbarian\u201d\u2014better to call them, \u201ctribal,\u201d these days.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe west became so unstable that monasteries became the most stable institutions in society.\u00a0 They weren\u2019t just places where people gathered to pray.\u00a0 They practiced the trades.\u00a0 They were hostels\u2014now, we call them motels.\u00a0 They were pharmacies; they were hospitals.\u00a0 They provided a lot of the necessary social services that were needed and used in the Middle Ages.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I like about monasteries is the rhythm of life that they established.\u00a0 They created this rhythm between what they called <em>ora et labora<\/em>, \u201cprayer and work\u201d.\u00a0 They wove those two together into this kind of seamless whole.\u00a0 They would pray eight times a day together.\u00a0 They called them \u201cthe divine office\u201d.\u00a0 They\u2019d pause, they\u2019d be still for a while, they\u2019d gather in a chapel, they\u2019d pray, they\u2019d chant the Psalms, they\u2019d listen, they\u2019d listen to a short meditation sometimes, and then they\u2019d go back to work again or to a meal.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen they\u2019d come back and pray, and then back to work.\u00a0 We tend to isolate religious life from secular work life.\u00a0 We do religion on Sunday, maybe a Bible study during the week; but the idea of that kind of tight-woven rhythm that allows prayer to affect work and work drive us back to prayer is a <em>marvelous<\/em> idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So back to you.\u00a0 How has that impacted you in terms of mixing prayer and work?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I try to follow a little more strict rhythm than I used to.\u00a0 Instead of just praying in my morning quiet time, which I\u2019ve done for many, many, many years\u2014I try to pause more often during the day; for example, when I ride in the car now, I never turn on the radio.\u00a0 Instead, I\u2019m just\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Hold it.\u00a0 Hold it.\u00a0 You can\u2019t\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wait, wait, wait.\u00a0 We don\u2019t just say that here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You can\u2019t do that.\u00a0 You can\u2019t turn off a radio.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Alright.\u00a0 Sorry.\u00a0 Oooh!\u2014faux pas.\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You keep going.\u00a0 Keep going.\u00a0 I\u2019m only partially\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s alright.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bob is totally kidding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 I turn off the radio, except when I\u2019m listening to FamilyLife.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 There you go.\u00a0 Amen!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Which I consider of greater authority, even than the <em>Bible itself.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, no.\u00a0 No, no, no, no, no!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now, we\u2019ve got to get to editing!\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jerry:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, there are little ways throughout a day when you can take a moment to pause and to look to God.\u00a0 I pray when I\u2019m walking across campus; for example, I\u2019ll pray for the next appointment I have.\u00a0 I always pray when I walk into a class.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese are little gestures; but they remind me that when I\u2019m teaching, I need another Teacher present Who is going to do the real work, through the power of the Holy Spirit\u2014that when I go home to be with my wife, or when I\u2019m talking with my kids on the phone, or we have people over for dinner, this needs to be seen as part of a divine activity.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cGod needs to be in this\u201d; and by following that rhythm of prayer and work, I start to see those two as affecting each other.\u00a0 My religious life does not become so isolated from my secular or work life\u2014and that\u2019s what has happened to most people in modern Christianity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And as a result, we\u2019re not having near the impact on the culture we ought to be having.\u00a0 I found it interesting that you described the monastery as being the primary influence on culture.\u00a0 If there\u2019s a need today, it is for the faith of those who follow Jesus Christ and who desire to be obedient to the Scriptures\u2014it is time for us to press into the culture and make a difference where we work, where we play, where we go to school, and where we live.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s not just that we\u2019re not having an impact on the culture, but the converse is true.\u00a0 The culture is having too much of an impact on us and on our own lives; and as a result, it is draining the salt out of the saline solution.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And I think what Jerry\u2019s book does, Bob, is it takes all of us kind of back to something we desperately need to be reminded of in this hectic, busy, fast-paced culture that we live in.\u00a0 We need to make sure we are pursuing God\u2014that we are getting to know Jesus Christ more and more intimately every day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what he\u2019s talking about when you\u2019re talking about praying.\u00a0 You\u2019re talking about engaging Jesus Christ before you walk into a meeting, as you perhaps have an appointment with a person.\u00a0 The issue is getting to know Him more and more.\u00a0 As a result, your life will be transformed; and you\u2019ll transform those you touch.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When you read about the lives of others who have gone before us\u2014who have walked faithfully with Christ, and we have their writings, and we have their stories recorded for us, and see how they have lived out their faith\u2014I think those examples give us courage, and they give us a vision for what our lives can look like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s one of the reasons that I think your book is so helpful.\u00a0 It\u2019s a book called <em>Water from a Deep Well<\/em>, and we have it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center.\u00a0 You can find out how to get a copy of the book when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call toll-free 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800 \u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY\u201d.\u00a0 Ask about Jerry Sittser\u2019s book, <em>Water from a Deep Well; <\/em>and we\u2019ll make arrangements to get a copy of the book sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I don\u2019t know how many of our regular listeners are signed up to receive our twice-a-month e-magazine called <em>The Family Room;<\/em> but I wanted to let you know that the next issue of <em>The Family Room,<\/em> that comes out early in December, is going to include some articles about how to keep Christ at the center of Christmas in your family and an article by Dennis and Barbara on ways to keep your marriage fresh.\u00a0 In fact, they\u2019ve got five suggestions for you in this article.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe e-magazine is free.\u00a0 We\u2019d love to have you sign up to receive it.\u00a0 All you have to do is go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the link you see there for <em>The Family Room.<\/em>\u00a0 You can sign up online, and then we\u2019ll start sending the e-magazine out to you.\u00a0 I think you\u2019ll really enjoy it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, it\u2019s absolutely free; and we\u2019d love to have you signed up.\u00a0 Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link that says, \u201c<em>The Family Room\u201d<\/em>, and then you\u2019ll be in line to get the next issue when it comes out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we\u2019re going to continue to look at some of the things we can learn from Christians who have lived in past centuries.\u00a0 In fact, we\u2019re going to see if there\u2019s anything that we have in common with the Desert Fathers.\u00a0 We\u2019ll find out who they were and what we can learn from them tomorrow.\u00a0 I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302407","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302407"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302407"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302407"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302407"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302407"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302407"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302407"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}