{"id":302397,"date":"2011-11-08T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2011-11-08T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/living-with-the-shame\/"},"modified":"2011-11-08T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2011-11-08T17:00:00","slug":"living-with-the-shame","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/living-with-the-shame\/","title":{"rendered":"Living With the Shame"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Seventy percent of abuse victims are abused before the age of 17.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-11-08.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.38M","filesize_raw":"23468778","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2873],"tags":[4129,2989,2320,2991],"podcast_series":[7838],"cwp_profile":[9247],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302397","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-homosexuality","tag-pornography","tag-purity","tag-sex","podcast_series-shattered","cwp_profile-bill-harbeck","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302397\/living-with-the-shame","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302397\/living-with-the-shame","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"4CBvdJN5fF\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/living-with-the-shame\/\">Living With the Shame<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/living-with-the-shame\/embed\/#?secret=4CBvdJN5fF\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Living With the Shame&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"4CBvdJN5fF\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-11-08.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-11-08.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Bill Harbeck was a victim of childhood sexual abuse as he was growing up; and as is the case with most abusers and their victims, Bill\u2019s abuser was a relative, his uncle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 He was the type of man who was the life of the party; constantly joking\u2014always had ten jokes.\u00a0 Everybody wanted to be around him.\u00a0 He was tickling people.\u00a0 He was a fun person.\u00a0 The amazing thing was that he promised me, probably at 18 or 19, that if I ever had a girlfriend and got married, he would never touch me again after that.\u00a0 So marriage became my \u201cout.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, November 8th.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife\u00ae, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Bill Harbeck joins us today and shares about the impact that his childhood sexual abuse had on every aspect of his marriage relationship.\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 We are hearing a story this week, Dennis, that, as you said earlier, is probably a story that parents will want to use some discretion about as to whether their children ought to be tuned in to what we\u2019re talking about.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a story that involves a young man growing up in an idyllic, suburban USA neighborhood who was groomed and preyed upon by a relative\u2014in this case an uncle\u2014who used the bait of high-thrill activities.\u00a0 \u201cLet\u2019s go to the Indy 500,\u201d or, \u201cLet\u2019s go drive fast cars,\u201d or, \u201cLet\u2019s go do things that other kids your age can\u2019t do.\u201d\u00a0 He used that as a lure to involve this young man in a sexual relationship.\u00a0 He preyed upon him as a sexual predator, and that continued for seven years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and I just think our guest on the broadcast today is heroic to step up, tell the story, put it in print, and then turn his life toward a ministry of helping those who have been sexually abused.\u00a0 Bill Harbeck joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Bill, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\u00a0 So good to be with you again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bill is the Executive Director of Holding on to Hope Ministries.\u00a0 Explain what that ministry does a bit, Bill, because you\u2019ve really dedicated yourself toward taking the harm that was done to you and bringing help to other people.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have a three-pronged approach.\u00a0 We expose the prevalence.\u00a0 We train anyone that\u2019s interested in helping a survivor; and then, we have a portion of the ministry that provides healing for survivors through retreats, through counseling, and through one-on-one ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You mentioned prevalence.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Share with our listeners what you shared with us just before we came into the studio about the number of victims that are preyed upon by a sexual predator.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 The average pedophile, I believe, has over 400 victims.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 In a lifetime?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 In a lifetime.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And most of the time it\u2019s a family member who\u2019s involved?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Most of the time.\u00a0 Only 10 percent of the time would it be a stranger or what we would kind of think of as a sex offender that comes into the park.\u00a0 That\u2019s not the case.\u00a0 This is a trusted family member, coach, doctor, dentist, lawyer, Sunday school teacher.\u00a0 Those are the abusers, unfortunately.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And, of course, in the news we hear about clergy involvement in this.\u00a0 There is some kind of a trust relationship that is the bond\u2014it is where it all begins.\u00a0 I\u2019m thinking, as a parent, \u201cWell, I want my kids to grow up with other adults investing in their lives; but I\u2019ve got to be wise in this culture about what that looks like.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 One question I wanted to ask you around that, \u201cWhen it comes to boys, are they generally preyed upon by men, or are they preyed upon by women?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Mostly men.\u00a0 Occasionally, you\u2019ll find and see in the news media where a teacher in a school has molested a boy.\u00a0 There\u2019s a double standard that\u2019s being kept there; so you don\u2019t see that as much.\u00a0 Typically, for boys, they\u2019ve been preyed upon by an older man.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 As Bob shared at the beginning of the broadcast, this was taking place throughout your teenage years.\u00a0 It started when you were 13 or 14 and continued on until you were 20.\u00a0 When you were going through high school\u2014I mean, we all have buddies\u2014did you ever think about talking to a buddy and saying, \u201cYou know, this is taking place.\u00a0 Let me just tell you what\u2019s going on here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 It never crossed my mind.\u00a0 My best friend down the street\u2014literally, we were inseparable; together all the time.\u00a0 When I finally disclosed it, he was the first one to call me when he heard.\u00a0 He goes, \u201cI cannot believe you kept that from me all those years.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Help a listener understand why\u2014why secrecy and silence becomes safe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is all rooted in shame.\u00a0 The Enemy makes it very clear that, \u201cYou\u2019re the problem.\u00a0 This is your fault.\u00a0 Now that it has happened, you are disgusting.\u00a0 No one out there would even want to be associated with you.\u00a0 No one would want to be your friend.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo there\u2019s the great fear that exposure would\u2014then I would lose my best friend.\u00a0 I would lose the family.\u00a0 They would not want me anymore.\u00a0 I couldn\u2019t possibly tell them.\u00a0 So I keep it a secret.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 During your teen years, you were spending weekends with your uncle in a variety of settings.\u00a0 You\u2019d go down to his house or the two of you would go off and do something together.\u00a0 As far as you knew, you and he had this special relationship.\u00a0 You learned later that he was preying, not just on you, but on other young men?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, that\u2014as counterintuitive as this sounds\u2014I was hurt by that.\u00a0 When I found out, I was hurt for my fellow cousins; but, \u201cI wasn\u2019t the only one?\u00a0 He told me I was his favorite.\u00a0 He told me that I was <em>the one<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 When I found that out\u2014that I was just one of many\u2014that was very hard in the healing process.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You didn\u2019t find that out until you brought your story to light.\u00a0 At that point, others who had kept the same secret you\u2019d kept for years, they started to speak up; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 A couple of them and I have met personally to sit down and discuss our own journeys.\u00a0 Unfortunately, several of my relatives just haven\u2019t been able to progress past some of those very painful moments.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 At one point, you tried to actually count the number of times you were molested.\u00a0 What happened with that count?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 I gave up.\u00a0 There were a lot of times I couldn\u2019t even remember being away certain weekends.\u00a0 I finally thought, \u201cI don\u2019t know how many times it was.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ten?\u00a0 Twenty?\u00a0 Thirty times?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, no.\u00a0 It\u2019s well in to the hundreds.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re talking about a relative who completely did evil to a young man, a boy, growing up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Emotionally, today, talking about that\u2014it\u2019s been how many years ago?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Since it began?\u00a0 Forty.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What\u2019s going on inside of you at this moment?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s the pain, but it\u2019s not the pain that I remember early when I began the healing journey.\u00a0 There\u2019s a sense of relief at the same time.\u00a0 But it\u2019s hard to describe; it is hard to even put into words.\u00a0 I\u2019m feeling numb.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What about your feelings toward your uncle?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 (Deep breath)\u00a0 At this moment, I have resolved the fact that my uncle had chosen a pathway that was wrong and evil.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When you got married, that was a turning point in terms of your sexual abuse.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou were not spending time with your uncle any more.\u00a0 Did you ever see him at family functions?\u00a0 Was there any ongoing contact?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 There was between him and my wife.\u00a0 Again, he was part of a very close-knit family.\u00a0 So, yes, it was very awkward for me in those situations.\u00a0 Yet, I behaved the way I always had\u2014all of the time growing up\u2014so nobody even picked up on it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You just put on the, \u201cOkay, here\u2019s how I have to act in this environment; I\u2019ll do it; I\u2019ll get through it and be done.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 What worried me most was when my children were born, especially my son.\u00a0 I kept a pretty vigilant watch on him and did not allow him in situations with adults alone.\u00a0 I was pretty diligent about keeping an eye on that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Your wife had no idea this had taken place.\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk more about that later.\u00a0 But you said your uncle had a relationship with your wife.\u00a0 What was that like?\u00a0 How did he relate to her?\u00a0 Were you ever afraid he was trying to seduce her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 He was the type of man who was the life of the party; constantly joking\u2014always had ten jokes.\u00a0 Everybody wanted to be around him.\u00a0 He was tickling people.\u00a0 It was just\u2014he was a fun person.\u00a0\u00a0 So he was the same way with my wife.\u00a0 He would kid her and tell jokes.\u00a0 There was never anything physical that I worried about in that situation because they were not going to be alone.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe amazing thing was that he promised me, probably at 18 or 19, that if I ever had a girlfriend and got married, he would never touch me again after that.\u00a0 So marriage became my \u201cout.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was your wife who proposed to you; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Tell us that story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 I met her when I was ten years old.\u00a0 So we grew up in the church together as church kids.\u00a0 I just slowly became attracted to her because she is a very outgoing person and tried desperately to draw everything out of me.\u00a0 I clammed up when this abuse started and became a very quiet, to-myself person.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t want to be around people.\u00a0 She saw that as a challenge, \u201cI\u2019m going to get you to talk.\u201d\u00a0 I thought, \u201cGo ahead.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis was great because she wanted to do all the talking, and I could just listen.\u00a0 This was perfect.\u00a0 This was fitting into the plan.\u00a0 We were at the lake on a summer day, and she was explaining on paper what it would cost if the two of us ever got married.\u00a0 I was in college.\u00a0 She said, \u201cI\u2019m a year older than you.\u00a0 I have my nursing degree.\u00a0 I will go to work.\u00a0 So would you like to marry me?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cSure!\u00a0 Sounds great to me.\u00a0 Let\u2019s do it!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Was there any part of you thinking, \u201cYes, I want to marry you because that will be the end of my abuse.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now, wait a second.\u00a0 How long had you dated at this point?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s got to be four years at this point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because we grew up together in the church\u2014so we had been to banquets together, and we went roller skating together.\u00a0 We were a couple.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let me just ask you, \u201cYou\u2019re adolescents\u2014are you holding hands with her?\u00a0 Making out with her?\u00a0 Doing any of that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Sure!\u00a0 Oh, absolutely, by the time I was 17; but again, I was conflicted because now I am with a girl.\u00a0 All I knew about sex was with this man\u2014so it was very, very confusing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 One other thing that was also taking place during your teenage years\u2014that you wrote about\u2014was pornography.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Talk about how you were introduced to pornography and how that impacted you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was a friend at school.\u00a0 We were by the lockers.\u00a0 He handed me a folder and goes, \u201cHere, take this home.\u00a0 You\u2019re going to love it!\u201d\u00a0 I didn\u2019t think anything of it.\u00a0 I got just outside the school building and opened it up and there was a whole package of pornographic pictures.\u00a0 I had never seen that before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when I got back to him, I said, \u201cWhat was that?\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cOh, I\u2019ve got all the stuff you want.\u00a0 I\u2019ll be happy to get you whatever you want, whenever.\u201d\u00a0 Well, that kind of fed into the secrecy thing.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went to work in a post office; and wouldn\u2019t you know the post office sends through pornographic magazines in the early \u201870s in a paper wrapper.\u00a0 That\u2019s pretty easy access.\u00a0 So, as a postal deliverer, you had access to all of those magazines that were going out.\u00a0 That started me down the road, which led to the \u201880s and the VCRs, and the internet.\u00a0 All of that became a huge issue for me because, again, of the attraction.\u00a0 This was now what I knew of sex\u2014just what you see.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, with this as your background\u2014seven years of abuse\u2014introduced to pornography; feeding on that\u2014you grew up in the church\u2014you\u2019re marrying the music minister\u2019s daughter.\u00a0 You guys are starting off on the perfect Christian family\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it was going to be.\u00a0 Well, we were going to be the model in the community, in my mind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Given that background, what were the toxic things that began to ooze out in this new marriage between these two Christian kids?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 The biggest breakdown was the idea that, up until then, I was able to keep everything silent and to myself.\u00a0 Now, I had a partner who wanted to talk all of the time.\u00a0 This wasn\u2019t going to work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we would talk in normal communication terms; but anything that had to do with intimacy, spirituality, or deep concerns, I would avoid that any way I possibly could.\u00a0 She tolerated that for some time; but as the years went by, and as the children came in, and as the stresses of jobs and life comes in, that silence was no longer working.\u00a0 I couldn\u2019t do it anymore, and she pretty much had had enough of that as part of the marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were angry as a husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Extremely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What do you mean by that?\u00a0 Outbursts of anger?\u00a0 Rage?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Both.\u00a0 And mostly occurred behind the scenes of our public life where I knew only a few people would see it.\u00a0 My children wouldn\u2019t say anything about it because, \u201cWell, Dad\u2019s just like that.\u201d\u00a0 I was a basketball coach.\u00a0 The worst profession an abused person could take on, in my mind, would be basketball coach because built into basketball coaching is losing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if I win, you will see that I\u2019m worth something and valued.\u00a0 As an athlete, that drove me.\u00a0 No one needed motivation for me to excel in athletics as an athlete because I was going to gain my self-worth.\u00a0 So I went into coaching and quickly discovered that we lost more than we won.\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLosing\u2014those were the moments when you would see the rage and the anger surface, whether it be at home, or in the locker room, or whatever. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Emotionally, you abused your wife then, for sure\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Totally.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did you ever physically abuse her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019ve talked about the fact that coaches are among those trusted people who can become abusers.\u00a0 We also know that those who have been abused have a tendency to repeat the behavior.\u00a0 Ever any temptation in that area?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 To be an abuser?\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 I was an abuser.\u00a0 One of the darkest parts of my healing journey has been the realization that I had to confront that\u2014that as a boy\u2014and this happened when I was a boy at 14.\u00a0 When it all began, I acted out.\u00a0 I acted out on other boys.\u00a0 Yes, that becomes a major part of it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, I kept that secret after years and years of the healing journey until I reached a point, \u201cI can\u2019t keep that secret anymore, either.\u201d\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Again, it was temptation on that pleasure side.\u00a0 This was pleasurable.\u00a0 \u201cLet me do that to someone else, and they\u2019ll see how pleasurable that can be as well.\u201d\u00a0 That has been the darkest part of the whole journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Your wife Jill\u2014if she looks back at the first 20 years of your marriage\u2014was this a secret for 20\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Twenty-one years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Twenty-one years.\u00a0 She knew, \u201cThere is something in your soul,\u201d but could never get it out of you.\u00a0 Did she ever say, \u201cWe either get to the bottom of this, or I\u2019m out of here\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Even after I told her, the healing wasn\u2019t enough.\u00a0 She was packed with bags and ready to move out the door if I didn\u2019t get some help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What kept her from running?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 I agreed to go.\u00a0 I agreed to go with her with the idea that I wasn\u2019t going to engage with the counselor at all; I was just going to keep her\u2014I didn\u2019t want to lose her.\u00a0 Again, I was playing the games of manipulation and control\u2014passively\u2014in order to keep her in my life, which I had done for all of those years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 She put up with a lot for a lot of years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Many, many years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m just trying to go\u2014there are a lot of women who would have said, \u201cI\u2019m not putting up with this,\u201d a long time before she dug in her heels.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m amazed.\u00a0 Even this moment, sitting here thinking of, \u201cWhat grace God has given me that kept her in my life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 She never gave up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Still hasn\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, as I listen to your story, Bill, I just keep thinking about the passage in First Peter, Chapter 5\u2014and I\u2019ve never really thought about this before when it comes to evil being perpetrated on a boy or a girl in the form of sexual abuse\u2014Peter writes in First Peter 5, \u201cYour adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we typically think of the devil trying to tempt us in our faith, trying to move us to doubt; but there is just the absolute onslaught of evil that is perpetrated on us when we\u2019re kids and vulnerable\u2014on our children\u2014when someone evil realizes they can get away with it.\u00a0 My predominant emotion\u2014listening to your story\u2014is sadness, accompanied with anger, and going, \u201cWhere\u2019s God in the midst of this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd, yet, I have to move back from my emotion; and I have to go to the truth of Scripture that God is there.\u00a0 He\u2019s there, and He didn\u2019t want it to happen.\u00a0 It was not His perfect will that a little boy be abused hundreds of times; but it is His will now that it has happened for healing, for hope, wholeness, intimacy, and a marriage to be put back together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s that great picture from Isaiah 61 of God taking ashes and making something beautiful out of those ashes.\u00a0 That\u2019s what redemption is all about.\u00a0 That\u2019s what you\u2019ve experienced; and you share about that in the book that you\u2019ve written, <em>Shattered, <\/em>which we have in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to encourage our listeners\u2014if you know somebody who has experienced sexual abuse, or if it\u2019s your own experience and maybe you\u2019ve never told anybody, get a copy of this book, <em>Shattered, <\/em>by Bill Harbeck.\u00a0 Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to request your copy.\u00a0 Again, it\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me also mention an additional resource.\u00a0 It\u2019s a book by Dan Allender called <em>The Wounded Heart.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>That is a book that I know, Bill, was beneficial in your life, and one that we\u2019ve recommended hundreds of times to folks throughout the years.\u00a0 Again, you can find information about both books online at FamilyLifeToday.com or you can call us toll-free at 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY;\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(1-800-358-6329); 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 We can make arrangements to have either or both of these books sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I had the opportunity not long ago to be with a couple of our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners (folks who live in Virginia).\u00a0 They were talking to me about how much they appreciate <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>dealing with these kinds of issues.\u00a0 They said there are so few places you can go where there\u2019s honesty, and candor, and a biblical approach to issues like this being presented.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, that was very encouraging for me to hear how God had used the ministry in their lives as they had wrestled through some tough issues.\u00a0 They talked about using our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and being able to search on the website if there was a particular topic they wanted to see addressed.\u00a0 They could search and find articles, or past programs, or resources that are available to help them in those areas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who help support <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>You make that kind of a resource possible for the couple I was talking to and for tens of thousands of folks who throughout the year come to FamilyLifeToday.com or who listen each day to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>We appreciate your financial support.\u00a0 In fact, this month, if you\u2019re able to help with a donation, we have a special way we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBarbara Rainey wrote a devotional book a few years ago for families, designed to help us all cultivate gratitude and thanksgiving in our hearts.\u00a0 Of course, this is the right season of the year to be focused on that.\u00a0 We\u2019d love to send you a copy of Barbara\u2019s devotional book, along with a couple of Thanksgiving prayer cards, as our way of saying, \u201cThank you,\u201d to you for your financial support of this ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo if you go online to make a donation, go to FamilyLifeToday.com and just click the button that says, \u201cI Care.\u201d\u00a0 That will take you right where you need to go to make your donation.\u00a0 If you\u2019d prefer to make your donation by phone, call 1-800-FLTODAY; and as you make the donation, just mention that you\u2019d like to receive the devotional that we were talking about on the radio.\u00a0 Again, we\u2019re happy to send it out to you; and we want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d again for your support of this ministry.\u00a0 We really appreciate it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to encourage you to be back with us again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to hear more from Bill Harbeck.\u00a0 It\u2019s a great conclusion to this story; so I hope you can tune in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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percent of abuse victims are abused before the age of 17.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-11-08.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Bill Harbeck was a victim of childhood sexual abuse as he was growing up; and as is the case with most abusers and their victims, Bill\u2019s abuser was a relative, his uncle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 He was the type of man who was the life of the party; constantly joking\u2014always had ten jokes.\u00a0 Everybody wanted to be around him.\u00a0 He was tickling people.\u00a0 He was a fun person.\u00a0 The amazing thing was that he promised me, probably at 18 or 19, that if I ever had a girlfriend and got married, he would never touch me again after that.\u00a0 So marriage became my \u201cout.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, November 8th.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife\u00ae, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Bill Harbeck joins us today and shares about the impact that his childhood sexual abuse had on every aspect of his marriage relationship.\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 We are hearing a story this week, Dennis, that, as you said earlier, is probably a story that parents will want to use some discretion about as to whether their children ought to be tuned in to what we\u2019re talking about.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a story that involves a young man growing up in an idyllic, suburban USA neighborhood who was groomed and preyed upon by a relative\u2014in this case an uncle\u2014who used the bait of high-thrill activities.\u00a0 \u201cLet\u2019s go to the Indy 500,\u201d or, \u201cLet\u2019s go drive fast cars,\u201d or, \u201cLet\u2019s go do things that other kids your age can\u2019t do.\u201d\u00a0 He used that as a lure to involve this young man in a sexual relationship.\u00a0 He preyed upon him as a sexual predator, and that continued for seven years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and I just think our guest on the broadcast today is heroic to step up, tell the story, put it in print, and then turn his life toward a ministry of helping those who have been sexually abused.\u00a0 Bill Harbeck joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Bill, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\u00a0 So good to be with you again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bill is the Executive Director of Holding on to Hope Ministries.\u00a0 Explain what that ministry does a bit, Bill, because you\u2019ve really dedicated yourself toward taking the harm that was done to you and bringing help to other people.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have a three-pronged approach.\u00a0 We expose the prevalence.\u00a0 We train anyone that\u2019s interested in helping a survivor; and then, we have a portion of the ministry that provides healing for survivors through retreats, through counseling, and through one-on-one ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You mentioned prevalence.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Share with our listeners what you shared with us just before we came into the studio about the number of victims that are preyed upon by a sexual predator.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 The average pedophile, I believe, has over 400 victims.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 In a lifetime?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 In a lifetime.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And most of the time it\u2019s a family member who\u2019s involved?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Most of the time.\u00a0 Only 10 percent of the time would it be a stranger or what we would kind of think of as a sex offender that comes into the park.\u00a0 That\u2019s not the case.\u00a0 This is a trusted family member, coach, doctor, dentist, lawyer, Sunday school teacher.\u00a0 Those are the abusers, unfortunately.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And, of course, in the news we hear about clergy involvement in this.\u00a0 There is some kind of a trust relationship that is the bond\u2014it is where it all begins.\u00a0 I\u2019m thinking, as a parent, \u201cWell, I want my kids to grow up with other adults investing in their lives; but I\u2019ve got to be wise in this culture about what that looks like.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 One question I wanted to ask you around that, \u201cWhen it comes to boys, are they generally preyed upon by men, or are they preyed upon by women?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Mostly men.\u00a0 Occasionally, you\u2019ll find and see in the news media where a teacher in a school has molested a boy.\u00a0 There\u2019s a double standard that\u2019s being kept there; so you don\u2019t see that as much.\u00a0 Typically, for boys, they\u2019ve been preyed upon by an older man.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 As Bob shared at the beginning of the broadcast, this was taking place throughout your teenage years.\u00a0 It started when you were 13 or 14 and continued on until you were 20.\u00a0 When you were going through high school\u2014I mean, we all have buddies\u2014did you ever think about talking to a buddy and saying, \u201cYou know, this is taking place.\u00a0 Let me just tell you what\u2019s going on here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 It never crossed my mind.\u00a0 My best friend down the street\u2014literally, we were inseparable; together all the time.\u00a0 When I finally disclosed it, he was the first one to call me when he heard.\u00a0 He goes, \u201cI cannot believe you kept that from me all those years.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Help a listener understand why\u2014why secrecy and silence becomes safe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is all rooted in shame.\u00a0 The Enemy makes it very clear that, \u201cYou\u2019re the problem.\u00a0 This is your fault.\u00a0 Now that it has happened, you are disgusting.\u00a0 No one out there would even want to be associated with you.\u00a0 No one would want to be your friend.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo there\u2019s the great fear that exposure would\u2014then I would lose my best friend.\u00a0 I would lose the family.\u00a0 They would not want me anymore.\u00a0 I couldn\u2019t possibly tell them.\u00a0 So I keep it a secret.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 During your teen years, you were spending weekends with your uncle in a variety of settings.\u00a0 You\u2019d go down to his house or the two of you would go off and do something together.\u00a0 As far as you knew, you and he had this special relationship.\u00a0 You learned later that he was preying, not just on you, but on other young men?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, that\u2014as counterintuitive as this sounds\u2014I was hurt by that.\u00a0 When I found out, I was hurt for my fellow cousins; but, \u201cI wasn\u2019t the only one?\u00a0 He told me I was his favorite.\u00a0 He told me that I was <em>the one<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 When I found that out\u2014that I was just one of many\u2014that was very hard in the healing process.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You didn\u2019t find that out until you brought your story to light.\u00a0 At that point, others who had kept the same secret you\u2019d kept for years, they started to speak up; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 A couple of them and I have met personally to sit down and discuss our own journeys.\u00a0 Unfortunately, several of my relatives just haven\u2019t been able to progress past some of those very painful moments.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 At one point, you tried to actually count the number of times you were molested.\u00a0 What happened with that count?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 I gave up.\u00a0 There were a lot of times I couldn\u2019t even remember being away certain weekends.\u00a0 I finally thought, \u201cI don\u2019t know how many times it was.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ten?\u00a0 Twenty?\u00a0 Thirty times?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, no.\u00a0 It\u2019s well in to the hundreds.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re talking about a relative who completely did evil to a young man, a boy, growing up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Emotionally, today, talking about that\u2014it\u2019s been how many years ago?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Since it began?\u00a0 Forty.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What\u2019s going on inside of you at this moment?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s the pain, but it\u2019s not the pain that I remember early when I began the healing journey.\u00a0 There\u2019s a sense of relief at the same time.\u00a0 But it\u2019s hard to describe; it is hard to even put into words.\u00a0 I\u2019m feeling numb.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What about your feelings toward your uncle?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 (Deep breath)\u00a0 At this moment, I have resolved the fact that my uncle had chosen a pathway that was wrong and evil.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When you got married, that was a turning point in terms of your sexual abuse.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou were not spending time with your uncle any more.\u00a0 Did you ever see him at family functions?\u00a0 Was there any ongoing contact?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 There was between him and my wife.\u00a0 Again, he was part of a very close-knit family.\u00a0 So, yes, it was very awkward for me in those situations.\u00a0 Yet, I behaved the way I always had\u2014all of the time growing up\u2014so nobody even picked up on it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You just put on the, \u201cOkay, here\u2019s how I have to act in this environment; I\u2019ll do it; I\u2019ll get through it and be done.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 What worried me most was when my children were born, especially my son.\u00a0 I kept a pretty vigilant watch on him and did not allow him in situations with adults alone.\u00a0 I was pretty diligent about keeping an eye on that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Your wife had no idea this had taken place.\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk more about that later.\u00a0 But you said your uncle had a relationship with your wife.\u00a0 What was that like?\u00a0 How did he relate to her?\u00a0 Were you ever afraid he was trying to seduce her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 He was the type of man who was the life of the party; constantly joking\u2014always had ten jokes.\u00a0 Everybody wanted to be around him.\u00a0 He was tickling people.\u00a0 It was just\u2014he was a fun person.\u00a0\u00a0 So he was the same way with my wife.\u00a0 He would kid her and tell jokes.\u00a0 There was never anything physical that I worried about in that situation because they were not going to be alone.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe amazing thing was that he promised me, probably at 18 or 19, that if I ever had a girlfriend and got married, he would never touch me again after that.\u00a0 So marriage became my \u201cout.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was your wife who proposed to you; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Tell us that story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 I met her when I was ten years old.\u00a0 So we grew up in the church together as church kids.\u00a0 I just slowly became attracted to her because she is a very outgoing person and tried desperately to draw everything out of me.\u00a0 I clammed up when this abuse started and became a very quiet, to-myself person.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t want to be around people.\u00a0 She saw that as a challenge, \u201cI\u2019m going to get you to talk.\u201d\u00a0 I thought, \u201cGo ahead.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis was great because she wanted to do all the talking, and I could just listen.\u00a0 This was perfect.\u00a0 This was fitting into the plan.\u00a0 We were at the lake on a summer day, and she was explaining on paper what it would cost if the two of us ever got married.\u00a0 I was in college.\u00a0 She said, \u201cI\u2019m a year older than you.\u00a0 I have my nursing degree.\u00a0 I will go to work.\u00a0 So would you like to marry me?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cSure!\u00a0 Sounds great to me.\u00a0 Let\u2019s do it!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Was there any part of you thinking, \u201cYes, I want to marry you because that will be the end of my abuse.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now, wait a second.\u00a0 How long had you dated at this point?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s got to be four years at this point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because we grew up together in the church\u2014so we had been to banquets together, and we went roller skating together.\u00a0 We were a couple.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let me just ask you, \u201cYou\u2019re adolescents\u2014are you holding hands with her?\u00a0 Making out with her?\u00a0 Doing any of that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Sure!\u00a0 Oh, absolutely, by the time I was 17; but again, I was conflicted because now I am with a girl.\u00a0 All I knew about sex was with this man\u2014so it was very, very confusing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 One other thing that was also taking place during your teenage years\u2014that you wrote about\u2014was pornography.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Talk about how you were introduced to pornography and how that impacted you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was a friend at school.\u00a0 We were by the lockers.\u00a0 He handed me a folder and goes, \u201cHere, take this home.\u00a0 You\u2019re going to love it!\u201d\u00a0 I didn\u2019t think anything of it.\u00a0 I got just outside the school building and opened it up and there was a whole package of pornographic pictures.\u00a0 I had never seen that before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when I got back to him, I said, \u201cWhat was that?\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cOh, I\u2019ve got all the stuff you want.\u00a0 I\u2019ll be happy to get you whatever you want, whenever.\u201d\u00a0 Well, that kind of fed into the secrecy thing.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went to work in a post office; and wouldn\u2019t you know the post office sends through pornographic magazines in the early \u201870s in a paper wrapper.\u00a0 That\u2019s pretty easy access.\u00a0 So, as a postal deliverer, you had access to all of those magazines that were going out.\u00a0 That started me down the road, which led to the \u201880s and the VCRs, and the internet.\u00a0 All of that became a huge issue for me because, again, of the attraction.\u00a0 This was now what I knew of sex\u2014just what you see.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, with this as your background\u2014seven years of abuse\u2014introduced to pornography; feeding on that\u2014you grew up in the church\u2014you\u2019re marrying the music minister\u2019s daughter.\u00a0 You guys are starting off on the perfect Christian family\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it was going to be.\u00a0 Well, we were going to be the model in the community, in my mind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Given that background, what were the toxic things that began to ooze out in this new marriage between these two Christian kids?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 The biggest breakdown was the idea that, up until then, I was able to keep everything silent and to myself.\u00a0 Now, I had a partner who wanted to talk all of the time.\u00a0 This wasn\u2019t going to work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we would talk in normal communication terms; but anything that had to do with intimacy, spirituality, or deep concerns, I would avoid that any way I possibly could.\u00a0 She tolerated that for some time; but as the years went by, and as the children came in, and as the stresses of jobs and life comes in, that silence was no longer working.\u00a0 I couldn\u2019t do it anymore, and she pretty much had had enough of that as part of the marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were angry as a husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Extremely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What do you mean by that?\u00a0 Outbursts of anger?\u00a0 Rage?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Both.\u00a0 And mostly occurred behind the scenes of our public life where I knew only a few people would see it.\u00a0 My children wouldn\u2019t say anything about it because, \u201cWell, Dad\u2019s just like that.\u201d\u00a0 I was a basketball coach.\u00a0 The worst profession an abused person could take on, in my mind, would be basketball coach because built into basketball coaching is losing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if I win, you will see that I\u2019m worth something and valued.\u00a0 As an athlete, that drove me.\u00a0 No one needed motivation for me to excel in athletics as an athlete because I was going to gain my self-worth.\u00a0 So I went into coaching and quickly discovered that we lost more than we won.\u00a0 (Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLosing\u2014those were the moments when you would see the rage and the anger surface, whether it be at home, or in the locker room, or whatever. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Emotionally, you abused your wife then, for sure\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Totally.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did you ever physically abuse her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019ve talked about the fact that coaches are among those trusted people who can become abusers.\u00a0 We also know that those who have been abused have a tendency to repeat the behavior.\u00a0 Ever any temptation in that area?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 To be an abuser?\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 I was an abuser.\u00a0 One of the darkest parts of my healing journey has been the realization that I had to confront that\u2014that as a boy\u2014and this happened when I was a boy at 14.\u00a0 When it all began, I acted out.\u00a0 I acted out on other boys.\u00a0 Yes, that becomes a major part of it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, I kept that secret after years and years of the healing journey until I reached a point, \u201cI can\u2019t keep that secret anymore, either.\u201d\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Again, it was temptation on that pleasure side.\u00a0 This was pleasurable.\u00a0 \u201cLet me do that to someone else, and they\u2019ll see how pleasurable that can be as well.\u201d\u00a0 That has been the darkest part of the whole journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Your wife Jill\u2014if she looks back at the first 20 years of your marriage\u2014was this a secret for 20\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Twenty-one years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Twenty-one years.\u00a0 She knew, \u201cThere is something in your soul,\u201d but could never get it out of you.\u00a0 Did she ever say, \u201cWe either get to the bottom of this, or I\u2019m out of here\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Even after I told her, the healing wasn\u2019t enough.\u00a0 She was packed with bags and ready to move out the door if I didn\u2019t get some help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What kept her from running?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 I agreed to go.\u00a0 I agreed to go with her with the idea that I wasn\u2019t going to engage with the counselor at all; I was just going to keep her\u2014I didn\u2019t want to lose her.\u00a0 Again, I was playing the games of manipulation and control\u2014passively\u2014in order to keep her in my life, which I had done for all of those years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 She put up with a lot for a lot of years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Many, many years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m just trying to go\u2014there are a lot of women who would have said, \u201cI\u2019m not putting up with this,\u201d a long time before she dug in her heels.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m amazed.\u00a0 Even this moment, sitting here thinking of, \u201cWhat grace God has given me that kept her in my life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 She never gave up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Still hasn\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, as I listen to your story, Bill, I just keep thinking about the passage in First Peter, Chapter 5\u2014and I\u2019ve never really thought about this before when it comes to evil being perpetrated on a boy or a girl in the form of sexual abuse\u2014Peter writes in First Peter 5, \u201cYour adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we typically think of the devil trying to tempt us in our faith, trying to move us to doubt; but there is just the absolute onslaught of evil that is perpetrated on us when we\u2019re kids and vulnerable\u2014on our children\u2014when someone evil realizes they can get away with it.\u00a0 My predominant emotion\u2014listening to your story\u2014is sadness, accompanied with anger, and going, \u201cWhere\u2019s God in the midst of this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd, yet, I have to move back from my emotion; and I have to go to the truth of Scripture that God is there.\u00a0 He\u2019s there, and He didn\u2019t want it to happen.\u00a0 It was not His perfect will that a little boy be abused hundreds of times; but it is His will now that it has happened for healing, for hope, wholeness, intimacy, and a marriage to be put back together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s that great picture from Isaiah 61 of God taking ashes and making something beautiful out of those ashes.\u00a0 That\u2019s what redemption is all about.\u00a0 That\u2019s what you\u2019ve experienced; and you share about that in the book that you\u2019ve written, <em>Shattered, <\/em>which we have in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to encourage our listeners\u2014if you know somebody who has experienced sexual abuse, or if it\u2019s your own experience and maybe you\u2019ve never told anybody, get a copy of this book, <em>Shattered, <\/em>by Bill Harbeck.\u00a0 Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to request your copy.\u00a0 Again, it\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me also mention an additional resource.\u00a0 It\u2019s a book by Dan Allender called <em>The Wounded Heart.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>That is a book that I know, Bill, was beneficial in your life, and one that we\u2019ve recommended hundreds of times to folks throughout the years.\u00a0 Again, you can find information about both books online at FamilyLifeToday.com or you can call us toll-free at 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY;\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(1-800-358-6329); 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 We can make arrangements to have either or both of these books sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I had the opportunity not long ago to be with a couple of our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners (folks who live in Virginia).\u00a0 They were talking to me about how much they appreciate <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>dealing with these kinds of issues.\u00a0 They said there are so few places you can go where there\u2019s honesty, and candor, and a biblical approach to issues like this being presented.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, that was very encouraging for me to hear how God had used the ministry in their lives as they had wrestled through some tough issues.\u00a0 They talked about using our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and being able to search on the website if there was a particular topic they wanted to see addressed.\u00a0 They could search and find articles, or past programs, or resources that are available to help them in those areas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who help support <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>You make that kind of a resource possible for the couple I was talking to and for tens of thousands of folks who throughout the year come to FamilyLifeToday.com or who listen each day to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>We appreciate your financial support.\u00a0 In fact, this month, if you\u2019re able to help with a donation, we have a special way we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBarbara Rainey wrote a devotional book a few years ago for families, designed to help us all cultivate gratitude and thanksgiving in our hearts.\u00a0 Of course, this is the right season of the year to be focused on that.\u00a0 We\u2019d love to send you a copy of Barbara\u2019s devotional book, along with a couple of Thanksgiving prayer cards, as our way of saying, \u201cThank you,\u201d to you for your financial support of this ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo if you go online to make a donation, go to FamilyLifeToday.com and just click the button that says, \u201cI Care.\u201d\u00a0 That will take you right where you need to go to make your donation.\u00a0 If you\u2019d prefer to make your donation by phone, call 1-800-FLTODAY; and as you make the donation, just mention that you\u2019d like to receive the devotional that we were talking about on the radio.\u00a0 Again, we\u2019re happy to send it out to you; and we want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d again for your support of this ministry.\u00a0 We really appreciate it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to encourage you to be back with us again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to hear more from Bill Harbeck.\u00a0 It\u2019s a great conclusion to this story; so I hope you can tune in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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