{"id":302378,"date":"2011-10-12T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2011-10-12T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/a-change-in-direction\/"},"modified":"2011-10-12T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2011-10-12T15:00:00","slug":"a-change-in-direction","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-change-in-direction\/","title":{"rendered":"A Change in Direction"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Life in the pastorate was all-consuming, but rewarding.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-10-12.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.03M","filesize_raw":"23098152","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848],"tags":[5076,4129],"podcast_series":[7831],"cwp_profile":[9243],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302378","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","tag-gay","tag-homosexuality","podcast_series-a-positive-life","cwp_profile-shane-stanford","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302378\/a-change-in-direction","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302378\/a-change-in-direction","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"UXK2pvIZSP\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-change-in-direction\/\">A Change in Direction<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-change-in-direction\/embed\/#?secret=UXK2pvIZSP\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;A Change in Direction&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"UXK2pvIZSP\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-10-12.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-10-12.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Shane Stanford was 16 when he learned he was HIV positive.\u00a0 He was 19 when he proposed to his wife, and eventually he was a pastor of a local church.\u00a0 You might think that his being HIV positive would be the biggest issue he and his wife would face in their marriage, but actually Shane\u2019s tendency to ignore his marriage and bury himself in his work wound up being an even bigger problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I remember one day we had actually started to talk again, and in those long talks we were kind of getting back to the way Shane and Pokey had been all of our life and our early part of our marriage.\u00a0 And one day Pokey came into the room and I\u2019ll never forget the look on her face.\u00a0 She said, \u201cI\u2019m not who you think I am.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today\u00ae<\/em>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife\u00ae, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Shane Stanford shares with us today the secret that his wife had been keeping from him in the early years of their marriage.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 You know, the first couple of years in just about every marriage there is some adjusting that takes place.\u00a0 There are some working things out that takes place, right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>There was in our marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But can you imagine what it\u2019s like if you marry at 19 and one of the things you bring into the marriage is that you\u2019re HIV positive, and the doctor says, \u201cYou shouldn\u2019t expect to live very long.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and it\u2019s where you take two people who have an ability to exhibit an extraordinary love for one another, and that really is the story of Shane Stanford, who joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Shane, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks.\u00a0 It\u2019s great to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Shane has written a book called <em>A Positive Life: Living with HIV as a Pastor, Husband and Father\u00ae<\/em>.\u00a0 He is the father of three daughters, and he and his wife, Pokey, have been married for over 20 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now I\u2019ve just got to ask right here.\u00a0 \u201cPokey\u201d is not what it says on her birth certificate, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, her real name is Barbara.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So where did Pokey come from?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Her father was a war hero from Vietnam, was coming home from his second tour, and there was a rule that if Pokey had been born before a certain date, as he got home there were more benefits involved.\u00a0 And she was born, of course, three days after that, and so she was known as the pokey kid.\u00a0 So that\u2019s where she got it.\u00a0 And it literally stuck.\u00a0 Her students call her \u201cDr. Pokey.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, she wasn\u2019t pokey in the classroom because she does have a Ph.D.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And teaches at Southern Mississippi University.\u00a0 You know, you\u2019ve had a lot of things happen in your life.\u00a0 You were diagnosed at six months having hemophilia; at six years of age your parents got a divorce \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And then at sixteen you were diagnosed with HIV.\u00a0 Then you moved into marriage facing all these obstacles, and all the bags that you brought into your marriage relationship.\u00a0 And then, not long into your marriage you encountered another amazing trial.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now, when would you say things kind of started going south with you and Pokey and your marriage relationship?\u00a0 I mean, it sounded like you started out great.\u00a0 Your first year of marriage, it sounds like, was just wonderful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, I would have to say really probably the first five years were great.\u00a0 We went through the first two years of being students and finishing our college degrees.\u00a0 We went off to graduate school.\u00a0 I finished my theology training.\u00a0 We came back, were appointed \u2013 We had some trouble, and really that\u2019s where the first break happened.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t in our marriage; it was just in our psyches, in our souls.\u00a0 That was when I was appointed to the first church out of seminary where I was supposed to be the pastor, and they refused to take me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because I was HIV positive.\u00a0 And because of that, it had a profound effect on me.\u00a0 It made me think that I needed to work harder, I needed to prove to people that if they took a chance on me as their pastor, that they would not be disappointed.\u00a0 And what ended up happening inside of me was that I threw myself into work.\u00a0 I really basically abandoned Pokey.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI never did anything immoral.\u00a0 I never did anything that was inappropriate in terms of another relationship, but I really did start an affair with the church.\u00a0 Everything I was doing in the name of being a really good pastor was held against the health of my marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 At what point did you sense something was amiss, because you hint at it in your book \u2013 that you had your intuition or your feelings that something wasn\u2019t right about this one relationship that Pokey had.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I can just remember \u2013 and now, of course, being a marriage and family therapist myself, I can remember sensing, \u201cYou know, she smiles a little too much when she talks about this person, she is more eager to go to be places where this person and their family were going to be.\u201d\u00a0 There was just an energy that was happening in that relationship and I do believe that there was nothing happening at that particular point.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat was taking place was this individual actually was in a very bad place himself, and ended up becoming a relational and emotional predator.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know if he would characterize it like that, but that\u2019s exactly what was taking place.\u00a0 And that\u2019s what happens in those situations where you have individuals who are broken.\u00a0 I tell people it\u2019s sort of like bleeding in the ocean with sharks swimming around.\u00a0 Eventually human nature is going to take over.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can remember thinking to myself, \u201cPokey and I are not okay,\u201d which was really more of the issue than feeling like this other relationship was not appropriate.\u00a0 But put the two together, and the warning signs were definitely going off.\u00a0 The problem, Dennis, was that I was too dumb to stop and pause.\u00a0 I was too prideful to stop and pause and do anything about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Were you a senior pastor at the time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was an associate pastor, but my senior pastor six months into my appointment had been in a very serious car accident, and I took over as the senior pastor of this church at the age of 23, fresh out of seminary.\u00a0 I had just finished my MDiv.\u00a0 What happened was is that the adversary, Satan, knows how to get at you, because he doesn\u2019t necessarily have to strike at your weakness.\u00a0 He can strike at your strength, too.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe church began to grow, people began to pat me on the back, they began to say, \u201cYou\u2019re doing a great job.\u00a0 We would prefer to have you than the senior pastor,\u201d those types of things.\u00a0 And so as I\u2019m working hard here to prove that those people who rejected me had made this bad decision and therefore you could count on me to be a success, I was losing my marriage.\u00a0 I was losing the person that was the most important person in my life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you suspected it, but you didn\u2019t know anything, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I suspected it, and did what I think most people in a relationship would do.\u00a0 I would make comments, I would watch the reaction, and of course, there was absolute denial all the time.\u00a0 What ended up happening was, as we began to grow further and further apart, I realized that we had to make some decisions that needed to change the course of our marriage, because in my mind, nothing had happened yet.\u00a0 Nothing had taken place, and therefore I needed to do things as course corrections before something bad did happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And when you say you were growing further and further apart, were you hostile with one another or just detached.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 Pokey and I \u2013 we didn\u2019t have that kind of relationship.\u00a0 It became more and more apathetic.\u00a0 I tell people all the time I wish we would have been angry with one another; at least there would have been some emotion.\u00a0 But what was happening was that our emotion was being fueled \u2013 mine was being fueled to the church, hers was being fueled into this other relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I made the decision to change the dynamic of my work life, and did that, became a church planter, which was a great move for me.\u00a0 I loved being a church planter.\u00a0 Pokey loved that life, too.\u00a0 She loved that new opportunity.\u00a0 We got out of that community; moved into another community, though it wasn\u2019t very far from the community where we had been, and gave us some time to kind of peel the scab back on some things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what happened was, is that the more that we peeled back, the more the truth began to flow to the surface.\u00a0 Because I believe that once light hits our life, God wants that all out of us.\u00a0 It\u2019s like purging us; it\u2019s like a fever \u2013 it\u2019s going to burn that out of us.\u00a0 I remember one day Pokey came into the room, and I\u2019ll never forget the look on her face.\u00a0 Because I had told her how sorry I was for abandoning her, and doing what I did to her, and she said, \u201cI\u2019m not who you think I am.\u201d\u00a0 I remember \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 She had said that to you at one other point in your relationship, and that was when you had told her you had HIV.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 The night I told her that I was HIV positive, she had told me about making some very poor choices in her life, and that there were things that had happened in her life that revealed that she was very broken.\u00a0 Now she had not gone into the full dynamics of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I learned was, when she came to me on this particular day, she didn\u2019t start out with the inappropriate relationship.\u00a0 She started out with being molested from the age that she was in the second grade to living a very promiscuous life behind the backs of everybody who thought that she was this perfect little church-going girl, had fought an eating disorder all of her life, and all of this is coming out and I\u2019m sitting here and I\u2019m watching the tears flow and I\u2019m watching this look on her face, and then I remember her saying, \u201cAnd your fears about this relationship are true.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe told me about \u2013 I mean just spilled it all \u2013 about all that she had done and all this relationship, and it had gone on for several years then.\u00a0 And then she couldn\u2019t take it and she left and ran towards the door, and that\u2019s when I chased her and I grabbed her and kind of pulled her to the ground.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can remember thinking at that point, \u201cI don\u2019t know what I\u2019m going to do with this broken heart.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know what I\u2019m going to do with all these feelings I have inside.\u201d\u00a0 But all I knew at that point was that this woman, who mattered more to me than anything else in the world, was the most fragile, most hurting person I\u2019d ever seen in my life, and I was not going to leave her.\u00a0 I was not going to abandon her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were not going to let go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was not going to let go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You held her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I held her physically.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And held her and held her.\u00a0 For how long?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was hours.\u00a0 She fell asleep in my arms on the floor at the front door of our house.\u00a0 We laid there on the floor.\u00a0 And from that point on we started over.\u00a0 It was not easy.\u00a0 It was the hardest road of anything that I\u2019ve faced, and I\u2019ve faced some pretty difficult things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now wait a second.\u00a0 You faced a diagnosis at 16 with HIV.\u00a0 You\u2019re saying that that moment with the person you loved the most and who was the dearest thing to you as a human being \u2013 that that infidelity and breach of trust was far more difficult.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\u00a0 By far it was more difficult.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because I myself at that point questioned whether or not it could be put back together again.\u00a0 That is a pain that is so deep and I think \u2013 and this is going to sound maybe too pastoral, too theological I guess, but I think that\u2019s why Judas\u2019 betrayal is so poignant to the story, because there\u2019s nothing like betrayal when it happens from somebody who is supposed to love you dearly.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd when those relationships break down, it is by far, I would say, the most painful, most devastating thing that a person can go through.\u00a0 I think it\u2019s why people give up, because they think to themselves, \u201cThere\u2019s no way I can get on the other side of this.\u201d\u00a0 But what we learned from this was, we do this to God every day.\u00a0 Everything that I was feeling, everything that we had done to each other, every way that we had failed each other \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s the same thing that we do to God.\u00a0 And God does not give up on us.\u00a0 I can remember talking to a friend of mine.\u00a0 All of my friends that I had told were telling me to leave her, and I\u2019ve learned since that people are so quick in that situation to give up.\u00a0 But there is nothing, nothing, nothing that can separate you from the love of Christ if you decide, and if both of you have decided that you want to make that work.\u00a0 You can get through it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When did you decide, and when did she decide?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, immediately we knew we wanted to make it work.\u00a0 We loved each other; we had been in love with each other from the time we were teenagers.\u00a0 We had been through too much.\u00a0 This relationship she had been a part of was a relationship that filled a need that I was supposed to be filling in her life.\u00a0 She realized that, and I realized that what I was doing with the church was something that she was supposed to be that engagement in my life.\u00a0 But we couldn\u2019t get past ourselves.\u00a0 We were still struggling.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd there was a weekend, it was a September weekend, I\u2019ll never forget it.\u00a0 Beth Moore was coming to New Orleans.\u00a0 Pokey went with a women\u2019s Bible study to the Beth Moore conference, and the first question out of Beth\u2019s mouth was, \u201cIf God could look into your heart, what are the places where He would not be pleased?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, at the same time my friends were telling me to go to this pastor\u2019s retreat, and I go to this retreat place.\u00a0 I don\u2019t like silence and come to find out when I arrived it was a silent retreat.\u00a0 I thought I was going to die, literally.\u00a0 Got into the first day of it and just was miserable.\u00a0 By that night I snuck out of the retreat center, went and got in my car, and I was headed home.\u00a0 I wasn\u2019t going to \u2013 I mean, this is mature, right?\u00a0 Here\u2019s a fully ordained pastor sneaking out of a window of a Christian retreat center.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI end up at a truck stop near the interstate, and go in.\u00a0 I\u2019m the only person in there.\u00a0 I go in to pay for the gas that I put in my car, and there\u2019s a guy by the name of Earl.\u00a0 Now that\u2019s my grandfather\u2019s name, and my grandfather had passed away by this time.\u00a0 I can remember he said, \u201cWould you like some chicken?\u201d because he was cooking chicken over to the side in the little warmer.\u00a0 I said, \u201cYeah, that kind of sounds good.\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cWell, you need to go sit down and I\u2019ll bring it to you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, \u201cWhy I don\u2019t have time for this.\u201d\u00a0 But I did.\u00a0 I went and sat down, and he brought me a basket of what was the finest-tasting fried chicken I\u2019d ever had in my life.\u00a0 I can remember he looked at me and he said, \u201cSo what\u2019s going on with you?\u201d\u00a0 And I said, \u201cWhat?\u00a0 I don\u2019t know what you mean,\u201d and he said, \u201cSon, you look like somebody who\u2019s either running from something, or running trying to catch something.\u201d\u00a0 We just sat and had a great conversation.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can remember once again, weeks later, thinking, \u201cGod has given me another angel.\u201d\u00a0 It really set my head straight, and I realized at that point, \u201cI need to stop running.\u00a0 I need to face the problems that I have in my life and I need to either put up or shut up.\u00a0 I either believe what I preach or I don\u2019t.\u201d\u00a0 I decided, you know what?\u00a0 I\u2019m going to believe it.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to make every day count.\u00a0 Why was I doing this?\u00a0 Well, you know, I was giving in to those broken places.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPokey\u2019s coming back from this conference, and she\u2019s all energized, and she knows that God is working in her life \u2013 and that was really that crossroads where we said, \u201cOkay.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to go forward.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just have to step in.\u00a0 It took Beth Moore with her, and Earl at the truck stop with you \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Don\u2019t analyze that too long because I know where you\u2019ll end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 A couple of prophets, huh?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Mine really wasn\u2019t required to be that up on his game.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 A chicken-cookin\u2019 prophet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 A chicken-cookin\u2019 truck-stop-lovin\u2019 Earl.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You look back on that turning point in your marriage, and that\u2019s been 13, 14 years ago?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, probably 13, 14 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And to look back and to see where you are today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it\u2019s amazing.\u00a0 She is my best friend, she is my soul mate, she is the sweetest, most beautiful person that I\u2019ve ever known, and she is a true child of God whose heart has been restored.\u00a0 We are in the middle of a big transition.\u00a0 She resigned from her position a month ago because she wants to come home and just be a wife and a mom.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a person who had chosen her career track as a way, I think, of trying to validate some places in her life.\u00a0 Not that she\u2019s not great at what she does, but she is, but her career meant a lot to her, and it still means a lot to her.\u00a0 But you can see these places that have awakened in her soul, and I will tell you that I\u2019m an extremely blessed man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You could have cashed it all in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 It would have been easier to quit.\u00a0 It would have been easier to give in and to do what everybody else was saying I needed to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And that\u2019s where I wanted to go here.\u00a0 To that person who is listening and they\u2019re living that story right now where there has been a betrayal, hopelessness abounds.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s pretend that you\u2019re Earl at their truck stop, and they\u2019ve just pulled up.\u00a0 What do you say to them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019ve got to stop running, because the truth is is that no matter how hard you run, no matter how far you go, there\u2019s two things you can\u2019t outrun.\u00a0 You can\u2019t outrun your problem, but you also can\u2019t outrun God.\u00a0 So I\u2019d rather stand still and let Him embrace me, and we\u2019ll face that storm together, than to keep running and trying to do it on my own.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Would you pray for that person?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019d love to.\u00a0 Gracious God, I just thank you so much for who you are.\u00a0 I thank You, Father, that you are a God who meets us exactly where we are in this journey, and there is nothing that scares you, Father.\u00a0 And Father, so many times we\u2019re running away from something or we\u2019re running trying to catch something, trying to hold on to it with the tips of our fingers, Father, and it feels like it\u2019s slipping away.\u00a0 But that\u2019s why we turn over the things that are most precious in our lives to you, and we trust you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFather, I want to pray for that person right now whose life is falling apart, who is dealing with storms in their life and they don\u2019t know what to do with it, they don\u2019t know where to go.\u00a0 And Father, I just pray that you\u2019ll put your arms around them.\u00a0 Give them a sense of protection and security, and allow them, Father, to know that no matter what has happened in their life, number one, they\u2019re loved; number two, they\u2019re forgiven; and number three, you\u2019re a God that restores the broken things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod, you build mosaics with the broken pieces of our lives that turn out to be the most beautiful things, more beautiful than this world could ever imagine, and for that we say in the name of Your Son, Jesus, thank you.\u00a0 Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Amen.\u00a0 Thanks, Shane, for sharing your story.\u00a0 I think you\u2019ve brought some light and some hope to people who are in various places.\u00a0 It may not be a disease, it may not be an affair, but there\u2019s plenty of ways to get off in a ditch, and I appreciate your sharing your story with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, and at the risk of sounding self-serving, we would encourage listeners who find themselves at a point in their marriage where there\u2019s some tension or conflict or just a rough spot that needs to be worked through, or maybe you\u2019re just at a point where you need a little refreshing \u2013 we all need that from time to time.\u00a0 The FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember\u00ae<\/em> marriage getaway is designed to be that island of refreshment in the middle of a busy life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a two-and-a-half-day getaway for couples, where you better understand God\u2019s purpose and design for marriage.\u00a0 You learn more about what the Bible has to say about building a strong marriage.\u00a0 You get a chance to laugh and to spend some time together, and it really is a great getaway for couples.\u00a0 You can find out more about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call us toll-free at 1-800-FLTODAY, and we can send you information about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur fall season is underway right now; we\u2019ve got a lot of getaways taking place this weekend and in the weeks to come.\u00a0 So get more information online, FamilyLifeToday.com or call toll-free at 1-800-FLTODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso check online for more information about Shane Stanford\u2019s book called <em>A Positive Life.<\/em>\u00a0 We\u2019ve got that in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 You can request a copy when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call us to request a copy at 1-800-FLTODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow a quick word of thanks to those of you who help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 We couldn\u2019t do what we do without you.\u00a0 We do appreciate your partnership as you help defray the production and syndication costs for this daily radio program, now heard in more than a thousand cities all across the country, and of course around the world via the internet.\u00a0 A lot of folks are using our iPhone app to connect with the program each day, and a number of you also download the program as a podcast.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can find out more about all of these opportunities for connecting with <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> when you go to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Again, we want to say thanks to those of you who make all that possible through your donations.\u00a0 Some of you give to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> each month as Legacy partners; others of you make a donation from time to time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, if you make a donation we\u2019d like to say thank you by sending you a copy of Barbara Rainey\u2019s brand-new devotional book for families called <em>Growing Together in Truth\u00ae<\/em>.\u00a0 It includes seven stories, all designed to help point you to the reality that God\u2019s Word can be trusted, that it is absolutely true.\u00a0 Request a copy of the book <em>Growing Together in Truth<\/em> when you make a donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Simply type \u201cTRUTH\u201d in the key code box on the online donation form, or call 1-800-FLTODAY and just ask for the new devotional on truth.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then get back in touch with us as you share these stories with your family; we\u2019d love to hear your feedback.\u00a0 I know that would be encouraging to Barbara and to our whole team as we seek to help you as you press Biblical truth into your children\u2019s hearts.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we want to encourage you to join us again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to hear a message from Dr. Russell Moore.\u00a0 He\u2019s the Dean of Theology at Southern Theological Seminary, and we\u2019re going to hear a great message from him on the subject of adoption.\u00a0 That\u2019s coming up tomorrow and I hope you can be with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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in the pastorate was all-consuming, but rewarding.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-10-12.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Shane Stanford was 16 when he learned he was HIV positive.\u00a0 He was 19 when he proposed to his wife, and eventually he was a pastor of a local church.\u00a0 You might think that his being HIV positive would be the biggest issue he and his wife would face in their marriage, but actually Shane\u2019s tendency to ignore his marriage and bury himself in his work wound up being an even bigger problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I remember one day we had actually started to talk again, and in those long talks we were kind of getting back to the way Shane and Pokey had been all of our life and our early part of our marriage.\u00a0 And one day Pokey came into the room and I\u2019ll never forget the look on her face.\u00a0 She said, \u201cI\u2019m not who you think I am.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today\u00ae<\/em>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife\u00ae, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Shane Stanford shares with us today the secret that his wife had been keeping from him in the early years of their marriage.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 You know, the first couple of years in just about every marriage there is some adjusting that takes place.\u00a0 There are some working things out that takes place, right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>There was in our marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But can you imagine what it\u2019s like if you marry at 19 and one of the things you bring into the marriage is that you\u2019re HIV positive, and the doctor says, \u201cYou shouldn\u2019t expect to live very long.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and it\u2019s where you take two people who have an ability to exhibit an extraordinary love for one another, and that really is the story of Shane Stanford, who joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Shane, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks.\u00a0 It\u2019s great to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Shane has written a book called <em>A Positive Life: Living with HIV as a Pastor, Husband and Father\u00ae<\/em>.\u00a0 He is the father of three daughters, and he and his wife, Pokey, have been married for over 20 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now I\u2019ve just got to ask right here.\u00a0 \u201cPokey\u201d is not what it says on her birth certificate, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, her real name is Barbara.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So where did Pokey come from?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Her father was a war hero from Vietnam, was coming home from his second tour, and there was a rule that if Pokey had been born before a certain date, as he got home there were more benefits involved.\u00a0 And she was born, of course, three days after that, and so she was known as the pokey kid.\u00a0 So that\u2019s where she got it.\u00a0 And it literally stuck.\u00a0 Her students call her \u201cDr. Pokey.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, she wasn\u2019t pokey in the classroom because she does have a Ph.D.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And teaches at Southern Mississippi University.\u00a0 You know, you\u2019ve had a lot of things happen in your life.\u00a0 You were diagnosed at six months having hemophilia; at six years of age your parents got a divorce \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And then at sixteen you were diagnosed with HIV.\u00a0 Then you moved into marriage facing all these obstacles, and all the bags that you brought into your marriage relationship.\u00a0 And then, not long into your marriage you encountered another amazing trial.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now, when would you say things kind of started going south with you and Pokey and your marriage relationship?\u00a0 I mean, it sounded like you started out great.\u00a0 Your first year of marriage, it sounds like, was just wonderful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, I would have to say really probably the first five years were great.\u00a0 We went through the first two years of being students and finishing our college degrees.\u00a0 We went off to graduate school.\u00a0 I finished my theology training.\u00a0 We came back, were appointed \u2013 We had some trouble, and really that\u2019s where the first break happened.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t in our marriage; it was just in our psyches, in our souls.\u00a0 That was when I was appointed to the first church out of seminary where I was supposed to be the pastor, and they refused to take me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because I was HIV positive.\u00a0 And because of that, it had a profound effect on me.\u00a0 It made me think that I needed to work harder, I needed to prove to people that if they took a chance on me as their pastor, that they would not be disappointed.\u00a0 And what ended up happening inside of me was that I threw myself into work.\u00a0 I really basically abandoned Pokey.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI never did anything immoral.\u00a0 I never did anything that was inappropriate in terms of another relationship, but I really did start an affair with the church.\u00a0 Everything I was doing in the name of being a really good pastor was held against the health of my marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 At what point did you sense something was amiss, because you hint at it in your book \u2013 that you had your intuition or your feelings that something wasn\u2019t right about this one relationship that Pokey had.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I can just remember \u2013 and now, of course, being a marriage and family therapist myself, I can remember sensing, \u201cYou know, she smiles a little too much when she talks about this person, she is more eager to go to be places where this person and their family were going to be.\u201d\u00a0 There was just an energy that was happening in that relationship and I do believe that there was nothing happening at that particular point.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat was taking place was this individual actually was in a very bad place himself, and ended up becoming a relational and emotional predator.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know if he would characterize it like that, but that\u2019s exactly what was taking place.\u00a0 And that\u2019s what happens in those situations where you have individuals who are broken.\u00a0 I tell people it\u2019s sort of like bleeding in the ocean with sharks swimming around.\u00a0 Eventually human nature is going to take over.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can remember thinking to myself, \u201cPokey and I are not okay,\u201d which was really more of the issue than feeling like this other relationship was not appropriate.\u00a0 But put the two together, and the warning signs were definitely going off.\u00a0 The problem, Dennis, was that I was too dumb to stop and pause.\u00a0 I was too prideful to stop and pause and do anything about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Were you a senior pastor at the time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was an associate pastor, but my senior pastor six months into my appointment had been in a very serious car accident, and I took over as the senior pastor of this church at the age of 23, fresh out of seminary.\u00a0 I had just finished my MDiv.\u00a0 What happened was is that the adversary, Satan, knows how to get at you, because he doesn\u2019t necessarily have to strike at your weakness.\u00a0 He can strike at your strength, too.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe church began to grow, people began to pat me on the back, they began to say, \u201cYou\u2019re doing a great job.\u00a0 We would prefer to have you than the senior pastor,\u201d those types of things.\u00a0 And so as I\u2019m working hard here to prove that those people who rejected me had made this bad decision and therefore you could count on me to be a success, I was losing my marriage.\u00a0 I was losing the person that was the most important person in my life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you suspected it, but you didn\u2019t know anything, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I suspected it, and did what I think most people in a relationship would do.\u00a0 I would make comments, I would watch the reaction, and of course, there was absolute denial all the time.\u00a0 What ended up happening was, as we began to grow further and further apart, I realized that we had to make some decisions that needed to change the course of our marriage, because in my mind, nothing had happened yet.\u00a0 Nothing had taken place, and therefore I needed to do things as course corrections before something bad did happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And when you say you were growing further and further apart, were you hostile with one another or just detached.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 Pokey and I \u2013 we didn\u2019t have that kind of relationship.\u00a0 It became more and more apathetic.\u00a0 I tell people all the time I wish we would have been angry with one another; at least there would have been some emotion.\u00a0 But what was happening was that our emotion was being fueled \u2013 mine was being fueled to the church, hers was being fueled into this other relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I made the decision to change the dynamic of my work life, and did that, became a church planter, which was a great move for me.\u00a0 I loved being a church planter.\u00a0 Pokey loved that life, too.\u00a0 She loved that new opportunity.\u00a0 We got out of that community; moved into another community, though it wasn\u2019t very far from the community where we had been, and gave us some time to kind of peel the scab back on some things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what happened was, is that the more that we peeled back, the more the truth began to flow to the surface.\u00a0 Because I believe that once light hits our life, God wants that all out of us.\u00a0 It\u2019s like purging us; it\u2019s like a fever \u2013 it\u2019s going to burn that out of us.\u00a0 I remember one day Pokey came into the room, and I\u2019ll never forget the look on her face.\u00a0 Because I had told her how sorry I was for abandoning her, and doing what I did to her, and she said, \u201cI\u2019m not who you think I am.\u201d\u00a0 I remember \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 She had said that to you at one other point in your relationship, and that was when you had told her you had HIV.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 The night I told her that I was HIV positive, she had told me about making some very poor choices in her life, and that there were things that had happened in her life that revealed that she was very broken.\u00a0 Now she had not gone into the full dynamics of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I learned was, when she came to me on this particular day, she didn\u2019t start out with the inappropriate relationship.\u00a0 She started out with being molested from the age that she was in the second grade to living a very promiscuous life behind the backs of everybody who thought that she was this perfect little church-going girl, had fought an eating disorder all of her life, and all of this is coming out and I\u2019m sitting here and I\u2019m watching the tears flow and I\u2019m watching this look on her face, and then I remember her saying, \u201cAnd your fears about this relationship are true.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe told me about \u2013 I mean just spilled it all \u2013 about all that she had done and all this relationship, and it had gone on for several years then.\u00a0 And then she couldn\u2019t take it and she left and ran towards the door, and that\u2019s when I chased her and I grabbed her and kind of pulled her to the ground.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can remember thinking at that point, \u201cI don\u2019t know what I\u2019m going to do with this broken heart.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know what I\u2019m going to do with all these feelings I have inside.\u201d\u00a0 But all I knew at that point was that this woman, who mattered more to me than anything else in the world, was the most fragile, most hurting person I\u2019d ever seen in my life, and I was not going to leave her.\u00a0 I was not going to abandon her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were not going to let go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was not going to let go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You held her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I held her physically.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And held her and held her.\u00a0 For how long?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was hours.\u00a0 She fell asleep in my arms on the floor at the front door of our house.\u00a0 We laid there on the floor.\u00a0 And from that point on we started over.\u00a0 It was not easy.\u00a0 It was the hardest road of anything that I\u2019ve faced, and I\u2019ve faced some pretty difficult things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now wait a second.\u00a0 You faced a diagnosis at 16 with HIV.\u00a0 You\u2019re saying that that moment with the person you loved the most and who was the dearest thing to you as a human being \u2013 that that infidelity and breach of trust was far more difficult.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\u00a0 By far it was more difficult.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because I myself at that point questioned whether or not it could be put back together again.\u00a0 That is a pain that is so deep and I think \u2013 and this is going to sound maybe too pastoral, too theological I guess, but I think that\u2019s why Judas\u2019 betrayal is so poignant to the story, because there\u2019s nothing like betrayal when it happens from somebody who is supposed to love you dearly.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd when those relationships break down, it is by far, I would say, the most painful, most devastating thing that a person can go through.\u00a0 I think it\u2019s why people give up, because they think to themselves, \u201cThere\u2019s no way I can get on the other side of this.\u201d\u00a0 But what we learned from this was, we do this to God every day.\u00a0 Everything that I was feeling, everything that we had done to each other, every way that we had failed each other \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s the same thing that we do to God.\u00a0 And God does not give up on us.\u00a0 I can remember talking to a friend of mine.\u00a0 All of my friends that I had told were telling me to leave her, and I\u2019ve learned since that people are so quick in that situation to give up.\u00a0 But there is nothing, nothing, nothing that can separate you from the love of Christ if you decide, and if both of you have decided that you want to make that work.\u00a0 You can get through it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When did you decide, and when did she decide?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, immediately we knew we wanted to make it work.\u00a0 We loved each other; we had been in love with each other from the time we were teenagers.\u00a0 We had been through too much.\u00a0 This relationship she had been a part of was a relationship that filled a need that I was supposed to be filling in her life.\u00a0 She realized that, and I realized that what I was doing with the church was something that she was supposed to be that engagement in my life.\u00a0 But we couldn\u2019t get past ourselves.\u00a0 We were still struggling.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd there was a weekend, it was a September weekend, I\u2019ll never forget it.\u00a0 Beth Moore was coming to New Orleans.\u00a0 Pokey went with a women\u2019s Bible study to the Beth Moore conference, and the first question out of Beth\u2019s mouth was, \u201cIf God could look into your heart, what are the places where He would not be pleased?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, at the same time my friends were telling me to go to this pastor\u2019s retreat, and I go to this retreat place.\u00a0 I don\u2019t like silence and come to find out when I arrived it was a silent retreat.\u00a0 I thought I was going to die, literally.\u00a0 Got into the first day of it and just was miserable.\u00a0 By that night I snuck out of the retreat center, went and got in my car, and I was headed home.\u00a0 I wasn\u2019t going to \u2013 I mean, this is mature, right?\u00a0 Here\u2019s a fully ordained pastor sneaking out of a window of a Christian retreat center.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI end up at a truck stop near the interstate, and go in.\u00a0 I\u2019m the only person in there.\u00a0 I go in to pay for the gas that I put in my car, and there\u2019s a guy by the name of Earl.\u00a0 Now that\u2019s my grandfather\u2019s name, and my grandfather had passed away by this time.\u00a0 I can remember he said, \u201cWould you like some chicken?\u201d because he was cooking chicken over to the side in the little warmer.\u00a0 I said, \u201cYeah, that kind of sounds good.\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cWell, you need to go sit down and I\u2019ll bring it to you.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, \u201cWhy I don\u2019t have time for this.\u201d\u00a0 But I did.\u00a0 I went and sat down, and he brought me a basket of what was the finest-tasting fried chicken I\u2019d ever had in my life.\u00a0 I can remember he looked at me and he said, \u201cSo what\u2019s going on with you?\u201d\u00a0 And I said, \u201cWhat?\u00a0 I don\u2019t know what you mean,\u201d and he said, \u201cSon, you look like somebody who\u2019s either running from something, or running trying to catch something.\u201d\u00a0 We just sat and had a great conversation.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can remember once again, weeks later, thinking, \u201cGod has given me another angel.\u201d\u00a0 It really set my head straight, and I realized at that point, \u201cI need to stop running.\u00a0 I need to face the problems that I have in my life and I need to either put up or shut up.\u00a0 I either believe what I preach or I don\u2019t.\u201d\u00a0 I decided, you know what?\u00a0 I\u2019m going to believe it.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to make every day count.\u00a0 Why was I doing this?\u00a0 Well, you know, I was giving in to those broken places.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPokey\u2019s coming back from this conference, and she\u2019s all energized, and she knows that God is working in her life \u2013 and that was really that crossroads where we said, \u201cOkay.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to go forward.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just have to step in.\u00a0 It took Beth Moore with her, and Earl at the truck stop with you \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Don\u2019t analyze that too long because I know where you\u2019ll end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 A couple of prophets, huh?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Mine really wasn\u2019t required to be that up on his game.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 A chicken-cookin\u2019 prophet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 A chicken-cookin\u2019 truck-stop-lovin\u2019 Earl.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You look back on that turning point in your marriage, and that\u2019s been 13, 14 years ago?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, probably 13, 14 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And to look back and to see where you are today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it\u2019s amazing.\u00a0 She is my best friend, she is my soul mate, she is the sweetest, most beautiful person that I\u2019ve ever known, and she is a true child of God whose heart has been restored.\u00a0 We are in the middle of a big transition.\u00a0 She resigned from her position a month ago because she wants to come home and just be a wife and a mom.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a person who had chosen her career track as a way, I think, of trying to validate some places in her life.\u00a0 Not that she\u2019s not great at what she does, but she is, but her career meant a lot to her, and it still means a lot to her.\u00a0 But you can see these places that have awakened in her soul, and I will tell you that I\u2019m an extremely blessed man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You could have cashed it all in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 It would have been easier to quit.\u00a0 It would have been easier to give in and to do what everybody else was saying I needed to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And that\u2019s where I wanted to go here.\u00a0 To that person who is listening and they\u2019re living that story right now where there has been a betrayal, hopelessness abounds.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s pretend that you\u2019re Earl at their truck stop, and they\u2019ve just pulled up.\u00a0 What do you say to them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019ve got to stop running, because the truth is is that no matter how hard you run, no matter how far you go, there\u2019s two things you can\u2019t outrun.\u00a0 You can\u2019t outrun your problem, but you also can\u2019t outrun God.\u00a0 So I\u2019d rather stand still and let Him embrace me, and we\u2019ll face that storm together, than to keep running and trying to do it on my own.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Would you pray for that person?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019d love to.\u00a0 Gracious God, I just thank you so much for who you are.\u00a0 I thank You, Father, that you are a God who meets us exactly where we are in this journey, and there is nothing that scares you, Father.\u00a0 And Father, so many times we\u2019re running away from something or we\u2019re running trying to catch something, trying to hold on to it with the tips of our fingers, Father, and it feels like it\u2019s slipping away.\u00a0 But that\u2019s why we turn over the things that are most precious in our lives to you, and we trust you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFather, I want to pray for that person right now whose life is falling apart, who is dealing with storms in their life and they don\u2019t know what to do with it, they don\u2019t know where to go.\u00a0 And Father, I just pray that you\u2019ll put your arms around them.\u00a0 Give them a sense of protection and security, and allow them, Father, to know that no matter what has happened in their life, number one, they\u2019re loved; number two, they\u2019re forgiven; and number three, you\u2019re a God that restores the broken things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod, you build mosaics with the broken pieces of our lives that turn out to be the most beautiful things, more beautiful than this world could ever imagine, and for that we say in the name of Your Son, Jesus, thank you.\u00a0 Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Amen.\u00a0 Thanks, Shane, for sharing your story.\u00a0 I think you\u2019ve brought some light and some hope to people who are in various places.\u00a0 It may not be a disease, it may not be an affair, but there\u2019s plenty of ways to get off in a ditch, and I appreciate your sharing your story with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shane:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, and at the risk of sounding self-serving, we would encourage listeners who find themselves at a point in their marriage where there\u2019s some tension or conflict or just a rough spot that needs to be worked through, or maybe you\u2019re just at a point where you need a little refreshing \u2013 we all need that from time to time.\u00a0 The FamilyLife <em>Weekend to Remember\u00ae<\/em> marriage getaway is designed to be that island of refreshment in the middle of a busy life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a two-and-a-half-day getaway for couples, where you better understand God\u2019s purpose and design for marriage.\u00a0 You learn more about what the Bible has to say about building a strong marriage.\u00a0 You get a chance to laugh and to spend some time together, and it really is a great getaway for couples.\u00a0 You can find out more about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call us toll-free at 1-800-FLTODAY, and we can send you information about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur fall season is underway right now; we\u2019ve got a lot of getaways taking place this weekend and in the weeks to come.\u00a0 So get more information online, FamilyLifeToday.com or call toll-free at 1-800-FLTODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso check online for more information about Shane Stanford\u2019s book called <em>A Positive Life.<\/em>\u00a0 We\u2019ve got that in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 You can request a copy when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call us to request a copy at 1-800-FLTODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow a quick word of thanks to those of you who help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 We couldn\u2019t do what we do without you.\u00a0 We do appreciate your partnership as you help defray the production and syndication costs for this daily radio program, now heard in more than a thousand cities all across the country, and of course around the world via the internet.\u00a0 A lot of folks are using our iPhone app to connect with the program each day, and a number of you also download the program as a podcast.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can find out more about all of these opportunities for connecting with <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> when you go to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Again, we want to say thanks to those of you who make all that possible through your donations.\u00a0 Some of you give to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> each month as Legacy partners; others of you make a donation from time to time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, if you make a donation we\u2019d like to say thank you by sending you a copy of Barbara Rainey\u2019s brand-new devotional book for families called <em>Growing Together in Truth\u00ae<\/em>.\u00a0 It includes seven stories, all designed to help point you to the reality that God\u2019s Word can be trusted, that it is absolutely true.\u00a0 Request a copy of the book <em>Growing Together in Truth<\/em> when you make a donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Simply type \u201cTRUTH\u201d in the key code box on the online donation form, or call 1-800-FLTODAY and just ask for the new devotional on truth.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then get back in touch with us as you share these stories with your family; we\u2019d love to hear your feedback.\u00a0 I know that would be encouraging to Barbara and to our whole team as we seek to help you as you press Biblical truth into your children\u2019s hearts.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we want to encourage you to join us again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to hear a message from Dr. Russell Moore.\u00a0 He\u2019s the Dean of Theology at Southern Theological Seminary, and we\u2019re going to hear a great message from him on the subject of adoption.\u00a0 That\u2019s coming up tomorrow and I hope you can be with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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