{"id":302367,"date":"2011-09-23T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2011-09-23T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/setting-the-pace\/"},"modified":"2011-09-23T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2011-09-23T15:00:00","slug":"setting-the-pace","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/setting-the-pace\/","title":{"rendered":"Setting the Pace"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Your leadership as a husband is vital.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-09-23.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.73M","filesize_raw":"24880216","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2826],"tags":[4284,4868,4698],"podcast_series":[7826],"cwp_profile":[3274],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302367","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-men","tag-father","tag-husband","tag-manhood","podcast_series-playing-hurt","cwp_profile-brian-goins","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302367\/setting-the-pace","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302367\/setting-the-pace","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"vtZw3WD3bT\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/setting-the-pace\/\">Setting the Pace<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/setting-the-pace\/embed\/#?secret=vtZw3WD3bT\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Setting the Pace&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"vtZw3WD3bT\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-09-23.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-09-23.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re familiar with the verse that says, \u201cHusbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her?\u201d\u00a0 Does that mean you should love your wife even if you\u2019re in conflict?\u00a0 Here\u2019s author and speaker Brian Goins.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Every woman in conflict needs to know one thing.\u00a0 Am I secure still with him?\u00a0 Does he still love me? And even though she\u2019s angry, even though she\u2019s irritated, even though she\u2019s maybe hurling great insults at you, lobbing grenades, what she\u2019s really wanting to know is, is he going to love me through this conflict?\u00a0 Is he going to push through that and pursue me?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause that\u2019s exactly what God does with us.\u00a0 He loved us when we were enemies, not when we were cozy with Him, but when we were stiff-arming Him; He pushes through with consistent love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today\u00ae<\/em> for Friday, September 23<sup>rd<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife\u00ae, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Brian Goins joins us today to talk about how a husband can love his wife even when he doesn\u2019t particularly like her at the moment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us on the Friday edition.\u00a0 You know, there are days you get up and you think, \u201cI am ready to be the kind of husband God wants me to be today.\u00a0 I feel fresh, I feel ready, I\u2019m engaged.\u201d\u00a0 Other days you get up and you go \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Mary Ann may be listening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 She knows it.\u00a0 I mean, I\u2019m not hiding anything from her.\u00a0 There are days when it\u2019s just \u2013 it\u2019s harder to be a husband than other days.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Really?\u00a0 Would you like to talk about that today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, actually I did talk about that with a friend of ours who happened to stop by FamilyLife on a day you weren\u2019t here, and we had a conversation that we recorded, and we thought, \u201cYou know, even though Dennis wasn\u2019t here,\u201d we thought our listeners ought to hear this conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think sometimes we all take ourselves a little too seriously, and you and I kind of debated back and forth and you said, \u201cNo, I don\u2019t think I ought to do it,\u201d and I go, \u201cLook, Bob, you\u2019re here, the guest is here, I can\u2019t make it, interview him.\u201d\u00a0 And so, obviously Bob can handle it.\u00a0 That\u2019s not a question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah, but Brian went home kind of feeling like he was in with the B team, you know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, he \u2013 (laughing) \u2013 Oh, yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When he went home he goes \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, I\u2019m sure he felt that. I\u2019m sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cI\u2019m on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> without Dennis Rainey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yeah.\u00a0 Let\u2019s call him now and see if he wants to cancel the broadcast.\u00a0 No, you\u2019re going to hear Brian Goins who is a pastor in North Carolina.\u00a0 He and his wife, Jen, speak at our <em>Weekend to Remember\u00ae<\/em> marriage getaways, and he\u2019s really a good guy.\u00a0 He\u2019s written a great book called <em>Playing Hurt<\/em>, and I think you\u2019re going to see why we decided to boot me off the air, actually go ahead and tape the broadcast, even though I couldn\u2019t make it.\u00a0 It\u2019s just a great broadcast, and we wanted you as a listener to hear it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Tell our listeners about the time you tried to make up with your wife, Jen, by bringing her flowers.\u00a0 And I\u2019m sure there\u2019s been more than one time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s been more than one, yes.\u00a0 There\u2019s been more than one time, but I remember when \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Do flowers mostly work with her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, that\u2019s the thing, is that it didn\u2019t work for a long time, but it took me a few years before I realized, \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 Buying these prepackaged, $5.00 flowers from the grocery store really doesn\u2019t touch her heart.\u201d Jen and I early on, we didn\u2019t realize that we had a very different interpretation of what \u201caround 6:00\u201d meant.\u00a0 For me that meant, because I grew up with \u2013 you know, my dad would come home around 6:00 and it was 6:00 to 7:00.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, plus or minus 30, maybe 60 minutes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right. Exactly.\u00a0 I have a pretty good window there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 For Jen, her dad would come home at about 5:32 every night, and so \u201caround six\u201d meant 5:59 to 6:01.\u00a0 And I remember I\u2019d come home around 6:00, and I could notice she was a little irritated, and so I began picking up on that.\u00a0 And me, being the smart guy, decided, \u201cWell, I\u2019ll stop by the grocery store and I\u2019ll pick up some flowers.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah, which will just delay your coming home by another 15 or 20 minutes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 And so I remember one time I got the flowers and she grabbed them, threw them on the kitchen table, and said, \u201cYou just don\u2019t get it, do you?\u201d\u00a0 And I didn\u2019t.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t get the fact that she spoke a very different love language than I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When did that begin to dawn on you?\u00a0 And talk a little bit about \u2013 you use the analogy of being on a rowing team.\u00a0 Were you at one point on a real rowing team?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, I was, my freshman year.\u00a0 I had never rowed before.\u00a0 I remember my coach got us together and looked at us gangly ninth graders.\u00a0 I think I weighed a buck thirty soaking wet, and he looked at us and he looked at me and said, \u201cGoins, your stroke.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cYes. What\u2019s stroke?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy job was to set the pace, and the coxswain would keep a little timer and he would go, \u201cAlright, you\u2019re rowing at about 28 strokes per minute.\u00a0 I need to get you up to 32.\u201d\u00a0 And I quickly realized that I was no better than anybody in the boat, because I didn\u2019t pull any more water than anybody, and in fact if I did it would upset the balance of the boat.\u00a0 I learned that I had to pay attention to what the coxswain was telling me, I had to listen to his orders, and I had to sit close enough to him to where I could understand what he was saying.\u00a0 Somebody had to set the pace of the boat.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think in marriage, when you become a husband you may have no prior experience about what that looks like, and may have even had a bad example in your own dad.\u00a0 But for all intents and purposes, in your two-man boat he says \u201cYou\u2019re stroke.\u00a0 You\u2019re setting the pace.\u201d\u00a0 What I find is that when I get hurt I don\u2019t want to set the pace.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want to engage my wife.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGenerally for me what I found early on, when Jen said \u201cYou don\u2019t get it,\u201d she said that in three main areas of my life.\u00a0 She said it in the area of learning what her love language was.\u00a0 It was pursuing her romantically.\u00a0 It was in the area of conflict resolution; I didn\u2019t want to set the pace there.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, I would generally try to throw the silent card down until she pitied me enough, or I would try to persuade her with great argumentation, or I would try to punish her, you know, whether it was through an argument or whether it was through just being quiet and retreating from her.\u00a0 And then the other area where I just didn\u2019t get it was in spiritually setting the pace.\u00a0 Even though I was studying to be a pastor, the hardest thing for me to do with my wife was pray.\u00a0 I felt the most intimidation and still struggle with it at times, in praying with my wife.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, let\u2019s help a guy in those three areas, then today.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s say he and his wife are just missing each other romantically.\u00a0 It seems like all of the sparks that used to fly, somebody doused them, and he tries to stir it up and there\u2019s no response, there\u2019s nothing happening, and he\u2019s going, \u201cLook, I\u2019m trying to set the pace romantically, but she is just for whatever reason not responding to me.\u201d\u00a0 How do you set the pace in terms of expressing love and romance with your spouse?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Sure.\u00a0 Well, I think Paul gives a great indication in the playbook.\u00a0 I call Ephesians 5 the playbook for guys, because number one, it\u2019s short.\u00a0 It\u2019s like 9 verses, and so guys can stomach that.\u00a0 And when you read through it, I think Paul lays out some great plays.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe says, \u201cHusbands, cherish your wives as Christ cherished the church.\u201d\u00a0 That word \u201ccherish\u201d means to bring warmth to.\u00a0 So what I tend to be is a thermometer, and I can be one from a distance.\u00a0 I can walk into a room and I can go, \u201cJen is cold. I need to find a warmer room, preferably one with a TV.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Or \u201cJen is hot, but not the good kind of hot.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cAnd so I\u2019ve got to go to the fridge.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cI need to find another room.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughing)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cI need to find a cold beverage.\u201d\u00a0 But what Paul is saying is, no you need to be a thermostat.\u00a0 You need to adjust the temperature of your bride.\u00a0 And so what I ask husbands a lot is, here\u2019s a courageous question for you to ask.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you feel like it\u2019s cold, that romantically it\u2019s cold, well something\u2019s not being communicated.\u00a0 You\u2019re not bringing warmth to her in some way, and so the honest question you need to ask is \u201cHoney, do you feel the depth of my love?\u201d\u00a0 Not \u201cdo you know it?\u201d \u201cDo you feel it?\u00a0 And if not, how can I help you feel it better?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I\u2019ve found that we don\u2019t really need to think up new ideas.\u00a0 Our wives have the playbook.\u00a0 She will then respond.\u00a0 I remember at one of the conferences, one of the things I do in the intimacy talk, and Jen will be with me, I will ask the women in the audience during the talk to text us, fill in the blank: \u201cIt really turns me on when my husband X.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd hardly any of them have to do with buffer bodies or good techniques in bed.\u00a0 One lady said, \u201cWhen he mows the grass and smells of grass clippings.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m going to go start up the weed whacker.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Our listeners have heard me tell about a night when we were at a Homebuilders study.\u00a0 Mary Ann and I were there together, and the question was, \u201cWhat\u2019s the most romantic thing your husband has done recently?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m thinking, \u201cOh my goodness, what\u2019s she going to come up with? When have I been romantic recently?\u201d\u00a0 I waited until they got to her, and she said, \u201cWell, the other night I was doing the dishes and Bob was watching TV, and without me saying anything he turned off the TV and came in and dried the dishes.\u201d\u00a0 And I said, \u201cNo, honey, they wanted romantic.\u201d\u00a0 She said, \u201cThat was romantic to me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell now every time I pick up a dish towel she goes, \u201cI know what you\u2019re \u2013\u201cBut acts of service that\u2019s her love language.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDid you finally sit down with Jen and say \u201cI want to love you well.\u00a0 How do I do it?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 Yes, I just realized, okay, these flowers aren\u2019t hitting it \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 -- you know.\u00a0 So it\u2019s not gifts, although she won\u2019t turn them down.\u00a0 She won\u2019t turn down gifts, but her statement to me is \u201cWhy would I care about flowers that will die in 15 hours, when what I really want is 15 more minutes with you?\u201d\u00a0 And that was it \u2013 quality time for Jen.\u00a0 I mean, for Jen it\u2019s a day off.\u00a0 In fact, the phone is off \u2013 it\u2019s really just being with her.\u00a0 I think the idea of do I value what my wife values?\u00a0 Do I know what that is?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, I could buy Jen a pot for Christmas, and most women would use that as a weapon.\u00a0 But for Jen, if it\u2019s an all-clad, master chef series two stainless steel, it\u2019s foreplay, because she loves to cook.\u00a0 And to know what she values.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo when Paul says, \u201cDo you cherish?\u201d or Peter, when he says, \u201cLive with your wives in an understanding way,\u201d it doesn\u2019t mean that we\u2019ll understand them, but just try to.\u00a0 I think asking questions is huge, and most men \u2013 I know for me, I would rather try to guess it or do my instincts romantically rather than take notes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 Let\u2019s talk about setting the pace when it comes to conflict resolution.\u00a0 You said your preferred pattern is the silent treatment or some kind of passive aggressive punishment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 How does the husband set the pace when the thermostat is chilly in the house?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 For me, what helps me is I need to ask \u201cWhat\u2019s my role in this?\u201d\u00a0 I remember hearing from somebody, a good friend of mine, who said that great marriages are more aware of the damage done to their spouse than the damage that\u2019s been done to them.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, what\u2019s the log that\u2019s in my eye?\u00a0 Help me see that. What we don\u2019t tend to do in a conflict is actually pray, to just stop, a 911 prayer, \u201cGod, --\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 -- help. Help me out.\u201d\u00a0 And to do that.\u00a0 So just stop and ask.\u00a0 I think secondly we talk about just blinking, and what I mean by blinking is this idea that in a conflict it\u2019s kind of like you\u2019re playing chicken.\u00a0 Who\u2019s going to be the first to relent and say \u201cIt\u2019s not about my right for vindication.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn any conflict, the goal is not vindication; the goal is victory in my marriage.\u00a0 So how do I move from being right to just resolving the relationship?\u00a0 So somebody has to blink, and somebody has to go, \u201cOkay, hold on.\u00a0 Let\u2019s remember that my battle is not against flesh and blood, so my spouse is not my enemy.\u00a0 How do I get to resolution?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The guy who says, \u201cThat just sounds like you\u2019re always giving in, and she may be the one who\u2019s the most wrong.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cAnd I\u2019m supposed to blink?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, absolutely.\u00a0 I think every woman needs to know one thing.\u00a0 Am I secure still with him?\u00a0 Does he still love me?\u00a0 And even though she\u2019s angry, even though she\u2019s irritated, even though she\u2019s maybe hurling great insults at you, lobbing grenades, causing pain, what she\u2019s really wanting to know is, is he going to love me through this conflict?\u00a0 Is he going to push through that and pursue me?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause that\u2019s exactly what God does with us, is that He loved us when we were enemies, not when we were cozy with Him, but when we were stiff-arming Him, He pushes through with consistent love and says, \u201cNo, I have loved you with an everlasting love.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo just to blink and say, \u201cHoney, right now we\u2019re at an impasse, and I don\u2019t care about who\u2019s right and who\u2019s wrong right now.\u00a0 I just want you to know that I\u2019m committed to you.\u00a0 Sometimes just blinking with that and saying, \u201cLet\u2019s take a time out,\u201d pause and say, \u201cNow what was it that I did that really hurt you?\u201d\u00a0 And even though she may be 99 percent wrong, own up to your one percent and let God convict her of her 99 percent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s say that you\u2019ve said something and you can tell the temperature is cold.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re not exactly sure why yet.\u00a0 You\u2019ve stopped and you\u2019ve asked God, \u201cWhat did I do?\u201d\u00a0 You don\u2019t know.\u00a0 You\u2019ve gone to her and say, \u201cAre you upset?\u201d and she says, \u201cI\u2019m fine.\u201d\u00a0 You\u2019ve had that happen, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yeah, yeah.\u00a0 And we know \u201cfine\u201d doesn\u2019t \u2013 I mean that\u2019s code word.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 What\u2019s it mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 It means \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cI\u2019m not fine at all.\u201d\u00a0 And as a husband you get that and you go, \u201cOkay, I cannot win at this game.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019ve told wives over and over again, a guy will not continue to play the game that he\u2019s lousy at.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 If he loses at the game every time, he\u2019ll find a different game to play.\u00a0 But now you\u2019re frustrated, you\u2019re not winning at this game, and you\u2019re thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t even know what to blink about.\u201d\u00a0 What does he do in that situation?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Guys are natural at resolving conflict.\u00a0 Guys can resolve conflict on the court; they can resolve conflict in a boardroom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, but when you do it on the court there may be a personal foul involved. You don\u2019t want to do that \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, right.\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 But the reason why we do it really well in those areas is because we know the rules.\u00a0 I think one way you can set the pace when it comes to conflict resolution is don\u2019t decide on the rules in the middle of a conflict.\u00a0 And so we tend to bring in history, and if we just set a rule and say, \u201cYou know, honey, let\u2019s set down some ground rules.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think Tim and Joy Downs have a great book in fighting fair where it talks about some basic rules that you can agree to, so that you can both agree, \u201cHey, I need to throw the flag on that one, because that was just out of bounds.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I don\u2019t often do this, but in the times when Mary Ann and I are experiencing conflict and I\u2019m getting the \u201cI\u2019m fine,\u201d or \u201cNothing\u2019s wrong\u201d treatment, but you know something\u2019s wrong and you\u2019re trying to figure out \u201cwhat did I do?\u201d or \u201cwhat didn\u2019t I do?\u201d and she\u2019s trying for you to find it on your own because that will somehow evidence that she\u2019s not nagging you, but it\u2019s come to you and that\u2019s really what she wants to have happen.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe wise thing I think for me to do in that situation is to say to her like you said at the beginning, \u201cI do love you.\u00a0 I want us to get through whatever this is.\u00a0 I need your help on this, and I understand right now may not be the time where you\u2019re ready to give me the help.\u00a0 When you are, I want to press through it with you and I want to own up to whatever issues I need to own up to.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And I think to say something like that \u2013 it\u2019s not to throw the monkey back on her back, but it\u2019s to say, \u201cWhen you\u2019re ready let\u2019s get this out and let\u2019s deal with it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Sure.\u00a0 I think one of the best things that I\u2019ve done is, I\u2019ll take a mentor, a couple that seems to exhibit a pretty great marriage, and the best $25 you can spend is a lunch out and go, \u201cOkay, what are your best practices?\u00a0 How have you handled conflict?\u201d\u00a0 And just take notes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What\u2019s been your biggest \u2013 if there\u2019s a blind spot or a trap you keep stepping into when it comes to conflict, is it one thing that you kind of fall back on that you\u2019re having to work your way out of?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think if Jen were here she would say that I will retreat.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Is that shut down?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ll shut down.\u00a0 Proverbs 18:1 \u2013 it says that when a man isolates himself, he seeks out his own destruction; he breaks out against all sound judgment.\u00a0 And it never fails, every time I isolate myself I\u2019m seeking my own destruction, and it doesn\u2019t help the cause.\u00a0 And so for me it\u2019s simply in those moments thinking about God going, \u201cGoins, I need you in the game here.\u00a0 There\u2019s more on the line than just your right for vindication.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019ve been talking about this metaphor of you being the rower, the stroke, isn\u2019t that what you called it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The guy who sets the pace in the boat, and that\u2019s what a husband is supposed to do in the marital boat, set the pace, and you\u2019ve coached us on setting the pace when it comes to romance, and setting the pace when it comes to conflict.\u00a0 You said that the third area that\u2019s a struggle for you has been setting the pace spiritually.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 As a pastor and as a seminary-trained man, this has been a challenge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yeah.\u00a0 Yeah, it\u2019s been a big challenge.\u00a0 I remember Jen one time early on in our relationship said, \u201cWhy is it you pray with all these other guys, but you don\u2019t pray with me?\u201d\u00a0 And I had no answer.\u00a0 I just had this intimidation about prayer with Jen.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI felt like I needed to perform, like I had to pray like Billy Graham or in King James only, and it was just a real struggle.\u00a0 But I just never saw it \u2013 and you never see it on TV or in the movies.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know if you grew up watching John Wayne, but I never heard John Wayne say, \u201cAlright, little lady, before these little cowpokes come and take your ranch, let\u2019s take a knee.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0(laughing)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou never heard Mel Gibson say, \u201cThey may take our wives, they may take our lives, but they\u2019ll never take our freedom.\u00a0 Now let\u2019s take a knee before we slaughter the English.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou don\u2019t ever hear that.\u00a0 So we don\u2019t have these models that sit down and go, \u201cThis is how you pray with your wife.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of my favorite verses on prayer is in Ecclesiastes.\u00a0 I think every man should know this verse on prayer. It\u2019s \u201cGod is in heaven, you are on earth, so let your words be few.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMost of the prayers in the Bible \u2013 I mean the Lord\u2019s Prayer \u2013 you can say it in 30 seconds.\u00a0 You\u2019re just talking to Abba Father, to your daddy, and this idea that when things are \u2013 whether it\u2019s a conflict, whether it\u2019s a struggle where we put our kids into education \u2013 all Jen is wanting me to do is to let her know that I\u2019m man enough to ask for directions to God.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So now you\u2019ve got a book out called <em>Playing Hurt<\/em>, and you\u2019re talking about this issue.\u00a0 If I went back to year two of your marriage, scale of one to ten, where were you in terms of setting the spiritual pace for your marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Probably a two.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Where are you today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 I would say probably an eight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019ve made some progress.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 I wouldn\u2019t say that I\u2019m a ten at all, and I don\u2019t know what Jen would say.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We ought to call her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think the phone\u2019s down.\u00a0 I really hope that I initiate more.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And has this prayer been the biggest part of getting from a two to an eight?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it really has.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So what will that look like today in your relationship with her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, some guys are real disciplined and diligent about it, and they\u2019re like \u201cPray with your wife every day.\u201d\u00a0 That standard is just way too high for me, but I also don\u2019t want it to be before there\u2019s a meal on the table either.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 And so it\u2019s when things are coming up in our relationship that we know we\u2019re struggling with.\u00a0 At night especially, after we\u2019ve put all the kids to bed, sometimes I\u2019ll just take her hand and say, \u201cHoney, we just need to pray.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIs it two, three times a week?\u00a0 I\u2019m not really sure.\u00a0 I don\u2019t have a set time, but I think I\u2019m just being far more consistent in grabbing her hand, letting her know that \u201cI\u2019m struggling just like you are, Jen, on this, and so let\u2019s pray about it.\u201d\u00a0 The more you do it the easier it becomes, and just fighting through that intimidation.\u00a0 And the enemy does not want men leading their wives spiritually.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And wives respond to the initiation of prayer on the part of the husband like nothing I\u2019ve ever seen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, man.\u00a0 And going back to those texting turn ones, I would say that 50 percent had to do with prayer and reading the Bible.\u00a0 And if guys could just go, \u201cReally?\u00a0 That\u2019s foreplay?\u201d\u00a0 Not that that\u2019s the reason why you do it.\u00a0 It\u2019s like, \u201cAlright, honey, let\u2019s have a quiet time.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 But to realize that they feel that love, they want to be led there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think you\u2019ve done a good job here of helping all of us figure out how we can do a better job of setting the pace in these areas.\u00a0 I\u2019m guessing you\u2019re not alone in terms of romance, conflict, and spiritual initiation as being areas in your marriage where you need some help setting the pace.\u00a0 I\u2019m guessing that there are a lot of guys who can nod their heads and say, \u201cYes, I can relate to that.\u00a0 I understand exactly what you\u2019re talking about.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And it was those guys you had in mind when you wrote your book, <em>Playing Hurt,<\/em> which we\u2019ve got in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 It\u2019s a great book for husbands as you call us to stay in the game even in the hard times.\u00a0 And we\u2019re going to have them as men.\u00a0 If you\u2019d like a copy of Brian\u2019s book, go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about how to get a copy.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, it\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com, or call toll-free at 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800 \u201cF\u201d as in Family, \u201cL\u201d as in Life, and then the word \u201cToday.\u201d\u00a0 We can make arrangements to have a copy of the book, <em>Playing Hurt,<\/em> sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd of course next Friday night is the national release of the movie <em>Courageous<\/em>, a great movie for guys, and this month we\u2019ve got copies of Dennis Rainey\u2019s new book called <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe eBook is available for download at a special price now through October 15<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 If you\u2019d like to find out how you can download a copy of Dennis\u2019 book, <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em> for your Kindle or for your iBook or for your Nook, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information.\u00a0 Again, it\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com, and of course it\u2019s an instant download.\u00a0 So get more information when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you\u2019d like to get a copy of Dennis\u2019 book as a hardback book, this week we\u2019re making that available to those of you who help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with a donation.\u00a0 Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 We\u2019re listener-supported, and your donation is what helps keep us on this station and on our network of stations all across the country.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you make your donation, if you\u2019d like to get a copy of Dennis\u2019 book, type the word STEP in the key code box on the online donation form, or call 1-800-FLTODAY, make a donation over the phone, and ask to have a copy of Dennis\u2019 book, <em>Stepping Up<\/em>, sent to you, and we\u2019ll get it in the mail, and hopefully we\u2019ll get it to you in time so that if you do go see <em>Courageous <\/em>next weekend when the movie comes out, you\u2019ll have Dennis\u2019 book there to start reading as soon as you\u2019re done seeing the film.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, we appreciate your support of the ministry.\u00a0 It is always great to hear from you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend.\u00a0 We want to invite you back on Monday when we\u2019re going to meet a remarkable Mom and hear the story of how her family grew and grew and grew.\u00a0 It\u2019s a great story, and I hope you can tune in and be with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back on Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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leadership as a husband is vital.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-09-23.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re familiar with the verse that says, \u201cHusbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her?\u201d\u00a0 Does that mean you should love your wife even if you\u2019re in conflict?\u00a0 Here\u2019s author and speaker Brian Goins.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Every woman in conflict needs to know one thing.\u00a0 Am I secure still with him?\u00a0 Does he still love me? And even though she\u2019s angry, even though she\u2019s irritated, even though she\u2019s maybe hurling great insults at you, lobbing grenades, what she\u2019s really wanting to know is, is he going to love me through this conflict?\u00a0 Is he going to push through that and pursue me?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause that\u2019s exactly what God does with us.\u00a0 He loved us when we were enemies, not when we were cozy with Him, but when we were stiff-arming Him; He pushes through with consistent love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today\u00ae<\/em> for Friday, September 23<sup>rd<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife\u00ae, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Brian Goins joins us today to talk about how a husband can love his wife even when he doesn\u2019t particularly like her at the moment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us on the Friday edition.\u00a0 You know, there are days you get up and you think, \u201cI am ready to be the kind of husband God wants me to be today.\u00a0 I feel fresh, I feel ready, I\u2019m engaged.\u201d\u00a0 Other days you get up and you go \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Mary Ann may be listening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 She knows it.\u00a0 I mean, I\u2019m not hiding anything from her.\u00a0 There are days when it\u2019s just \u2013 it\u2019s harder to be a husband than other days.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Really?\u00a0 Would you like to talk about that today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, actually I did talk about that with a friend of ours who happened to stop by FamilyLife on a day you weren\u2019t here, and we had a conversation that we recorded, and we thought, \u201cYou know, even though Dennis wasn\u2019t here,\u201d we thought our listeners ought to hear this conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think sometimes we all take ourselves a little too seriously, and you and I kind of debated back and forth and you said, \u201cNo, I don\u2019t think I ought to do it,\u201d and I go, \u201cLook, Bob, you\u2019re here, the guest is here, I can\u2019t make it, interview him.\u201d\u00a0 And so, obviously Bob can handle it.\u00a0 That\u2019s not a question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah, but Brian went home kind of feeling like he was in with the B team, you know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, he \u2013 (laughing) \u2013 Oh, yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When he went home he goes \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, I\u2019m sure he felt that. I\u2019m sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cI\u2019m on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> without Dennis Rainey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yeah.\u00a0 Let\u2019s call him now and see if he wants to cancel the broadcast.\u00a0 No, you\u2019re going to hear Brian Goins who is a pastor in North Carolina.\u00a0 He and his wife, Jen, speak at our <em>Weekend to Remember\u00ae<\/em> marriage getaways, and he\u2019s really a good guy.\u00a0 He\u2019s written a great book called <em>Playing Hurt<\/em>, and I think you\u2019re going to see why we decided to boot me off the air, actually go ahead and tape the broadcast, even though I couldn\u2019t make it.\u00a0 It\u2019s just a great broadcast, and we wanted you as a listener to hear it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Tell our listeners about the time you tried to make up with your wife, Jen, by bringing her flowers.\u00a0 And I\u2019m sure there\u2019s been more than one time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s been more than one, yes.\u00a0 There\u2019s been more than one time, but I remember when \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Do flowers mostly work with her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, that\u2019s the thing, is that it didn\u2019t work for a long time, but it took me a few years before I realized, \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 Buying these prepackaged, $5.00 flowers from the grocery store really doesn\u2019t touch her heart.\u201d Jen and I early on, we didn\u2019t realize that we had a very different interpretation of what \u201caround 6:00\u201d meant.\u00a0 For me that meant, because I grew up with \u2013 you know, my dad would come home around 6:00 and it was 6:00 to 7:00.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, plus or minus 30, maybe 60 minutes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right. Exactly.\u00a0 I have a pretty good window there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 For Jen, her dad would come home at about 5:32 every night, and so \u201caround six\u201d meant 5:59 to 6:01.\u00a0 And I remember I\u2019d come home around 6:00, and I could notice she was a little irritated, and so I began picking up on that.\u00a0 And me, being the smart guy, decided, \u201cWell, I\u2019ll stop by the grocery store and I\u2019ll pick up some flowers.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah, which will just delay your coming home by another 15 or 20 minutes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 And so I remember one time I got the flowers and she grabbed them, threw them on the kitchen table, and said, \u201cYou just don\u2019t get it, do you?\u201d\u00a0 And I didn\u2019t.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t get the fact that she spoke a very different love language than I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When did that begin to dawn on you?\u00a0 And talk a little bit about \u2013 you use the analogy of being on a rowing team.\u00a0 Were you at one point on a real rowing team?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, I was, my freshman year.\u00a0 I had never rowed before.\u00a0 I remember my coach got us together and looked at us gangly ninth graders.\u00a0 I think I weighed a buck thirty soaking wet, and he looked at us and he looked at me and said, \u201cGoins, your stroke.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cYes. What\u2019s stroke?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy job was to set the pace, and the coxswain would keep a little timer and he would go, \u201cAlright, you\u2019re rowing at about 28 strokes per minute.\u00a0 I need to get you up to 32.\u201d\u00a0 And I quickly realized that I was no better than anybody in the boat, because I didn\u2019t pull any more water than anybody, and in fact if I did it would upset the balance of the boat.\u00a0 I learned that I had to pay attention to what the coxswain was telling me, I had to listen to his orders, and I had to sit close enough to him to where I could understand what he was saying.\u00a0 Somebody had to set the pace of the boat.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think in marriage, when you become a husband you may have no prior experience about what that looks like, and may have even had a bad example in your own dad.\u00a0 But for all intents and purposes, in your two-man boat he says \u201cYou\u2019re stroke.\u00a0 You\u2019re setting the pace.\u201d\u00a0 What I find is that when I get hurt I don\u2019t want to set the pace.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want to engage my wife.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGenerally for me what I found early on, when Jen said \u201cYou don\u2019t get it,\u201d she said that in three main areas of my life.\u00a0 She said it in the area of learning what her love language was.\u00a0 It was pursuing her romantically.\u00a0 It was in the area of conflict resolution; I didn\u2019t want to set the pace there.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, I would generally try to throw the silent card down until she pitied me enough, or I would try to persuade her with great argumentation, or I would try to punish her, you know, whether it was through an argument or whether it was through just being quiet and retreating from her.\u00a0 And then the other area where I just didn\u2019t get it was in spiritually setting the pace.\u00a0 Even though I was studying to be a pastor, the hardest thing for me to do with my wife was pray.\u00a0 I felt the most intimidation and still struggle with it at times, in praying with my wife.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, let\u2019s help a guy in those three areas, then today.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s say he and his wife are just missing each other romantically.\u00a0 It seems like all of the sparks that used to fly, somebody doused them, and he tries to stir it up and there\u2019s no response, there\u2019s nothing happening, and he\u2019s going, \u201cLook, I\u2019m trying to set the pace romantically, but she is just for whatever reason not responding to me.\u201d\u00a0 How do you set the pace in terms of expressing love and romance with your spouse?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Sure.\u00a0 Well, I think Paul gives a great indication in the playbook.\u00a0 I call Ephesians 5 the playbook for guys, because number one, it\u2019s short.\u00a0 It\u2019s like 9 verses, and so guys can stomach that.\u00a0 And when you read through it, I think Paul lays out some great plays.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe says, \u201cHusbands, cherish your wives as Christ cherished the church.\u201d\u00a0 That word \u201ccherish\u201d means to bring warmth to.\u00a0 So what I tend to be is a thermometer, and I can be one from a distance.\u00a0 I can walk into a room and I can go, \u201cJen is cold. I need to find a warmer room, preferably one with a TV.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Or \u201cJen is hot, but not the good kind of hot.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cAnd so I\u2019ve got to go to the fridge.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cI need to find another room.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughing)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cI need to find a cold beverage.\u201d\u00a0 But what Paul is saying is, no you need to be a thermostat.\u00a0 You need to adjust the temperature of your bride.\u00a0 And so what I ask husbands a lot is, here\u2019s a courageous question for you to ask.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you feel like it\u2019s cold, that romantically it\u2019s cold, well something\u2019s not being communicated.\u00a0 You\u2019re not bringing warmth to her in some way, and so the honest question you need to ask is \u201cHoney, do you feel the depth of my love?\u201d\u00a0 Not \u201cdo you know it?\u201d \u201cDo you feel it?\u00a0 And if not, how can I help you feel it better?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I\u2019ve found that we don\u2019t really need to think up new ideas.\u00a0 Our wives have the playbook.\u00a0 She will then respond.\u00a0 I remember at one of the conferences, one of the things I do in the intimacy talk, and Jen will be with me, I will ask the women in the audience during the talk to text us, fill in the blank: \u201cIt really turns me on when my husband X.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd hardly any of them have to do with buffer bodies or good techniques in bed.\u00a0 One lady said, \u201cWhen he mows the grass and smells of grass clippings.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m going to go start up the weed whacker.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Our listeners have heard me tell about a night when we were at a Homebuilders study.\u00a0 Mary Ann and I were there together, and the question was, \u201cWhat\u2019s the most romantic thing your husband has done recently?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m thinking, \u201cOh my goodness, what\u2019s she going to come up with? When have I been romantic recently?\u201d\u00a0 I waited until they got to her, and she said, \u201cWell, the other night I was doing the dishes and Bob was watching TV, and without me saying anything he turned off the TV and came in and dried the dishes.\u201d\u00a0 And I said, \u201cNo, honey, they wanted romantic.\u201d\u00a0 She said, \u201cThat was romantic to me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell now every time I pick up a dish towel she goes, \u201cI know what you\u2019re \u2013\u201cBut acts of service that\u2019s her love language.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDid you finally sit down with Jen and say \u201cI want to love you well.\u00a0 How do I do it?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 Yes, I just realized, okay, these flowers aren\u2019t hitting it \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 -- you know.\u00a0 So it\u2019s not gifts, although she won\u2019t turn them down.\u00a0 She won\u2019t turn down gifts, but her statement to me is \u201cWhy would I care about flowers that will die in 15 hours, when what I really want is 15 more minutes with you?\u201d\u00a0 And that was it \u2013 quality time for Jen.\u00a0 I mean, for Jen it\u2019s a day off.\u00a0 In fact, the phone is off \u2013 it\u2019s really just being with her.\u00a0 I think the idea of do I value what my wife values?\u00a0 Do I know what that is?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, I could buy Jen a pot for Christmas, and most women would use that as a weapon.\u00a0 But for Jen, if it\u2019s an all-clad, master chef series two stainless steel, it\u2019s foreplay, because she loves to cook.\u00a0 And to know what she values.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo when Paul says, \u201cDo you cherish?\u201d or Peter, when he says, \u201cLive with your wives in an understanding way,\u201d it doesn\u2019t mean that we\u2019ll understand them, but just try to.\u00a0 I think asking questions is huge, and most men \u2013 I know for me, I would rather try to guess it or do my instincts romantically rather than take notes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 Let\u2019s talk about setting the pace when it comes to conflict resolution.\u00a0 You said your preferred pattern is the silent treatment or some kind of passive aggressive punishment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 How does the husband set the pace when the thermostat is chilly in the house?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 For me, what helps me is I need to ask \u201cWhat\u2019s my role in this?\u201d\u00a0 I remember hearing from somebody, a good friend of mine, who said that great marriages are more aware of the damage done to their spouse than the damage that\u2019s been done to them.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, what\u2019s the log that\u2019s in my eye?\u00a0 Help me see that. What we don\u2019t tend to do in a conflict is actually pray, to just stop, a 911 prayer, \u201cGod, --\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 -- help. Help me out.\u201d\u00a0 And to do that.\u00a0 So just stop and ask.\u00a0 I think secondly we talk about just blinking, and what I mean by blinking is this idea that in a conflict it\u2019s kind of like you\u2019re playing chicken.\u00a0 Who\u2019s going to be the first to relent and say \u201cIt\u2019s not about my right for vindication.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn any conflict, the goal is not vindication; the goal is victory in my marriage.\u00a0 So how do I move from being right to just resolving the relationship?\u00a0 So somebody has to blink, and somebody has to go, \u201cOkay, hold on.\u00a0 Let\u2019s remember that my battle is not against flesh and blood, so my spouse is not my enemy.\u00a0 How do I get to resolution?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The guy who says, \u201cThat just sounds like you\u2019re always giving in, and she may be the one who\u2019s the most wrong.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cAnd I\u2019m supposed to blink?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, absolutely.\u00a0 I think every woman needs to know one thing.\u00a0 Am I secure still with him?\u00a0 Does he still love me?\u00a0 And even though she\u2019s angry, even though she\u2019s irritated, even though she\u2019s maybe hurling great insults at you, lobbing grenades, causing pain, what she\u2019s really wanting to know is, is he going to love me through this conflict?\u00a0 Is he going to push through that and pursue me?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause that\u2019s exactly what God does with us, is that He loved us when we were enemies, not when we were cozy with Him, but when we were stiff-arming Him, He pushes through with consistent love and says, \u201cNo, I have loved you with an everlasting love.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo just to blink and say, \u201cHoney, right now we\u2019re at an impasse, and I don\u2019t care about who\u2019s right and who\u2019s wrong right now.\u00a0 I just want you to know that I\u2019m committed to you.\u00a0 Sometimes just blinking with that and saying, \u201cLet\u2019s take a time out,\u201d pause and say, \u201cNow what was it that I did that really hurt you?\u201d\u00a0 And even though she may be 99 percent wrong, own up to your one percent and let God convict her of her 99 percent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let\u2019s say that you\u2019ve said something and you can tell the temperature is cold.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re not exactly sure why yet.\u00a0 You\u2019ve stopped and you\u2019ve asked God, \u201cWhat did I do?\u201d\u00a0 You don\u2019t know.\u00a0 You\u2019ve gone to her and say, \u201cAre you upset?\u201d and she says, \u201cI\u2019m fine.\u201d\u00a0 You\u2019ve had that happen, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yeah, yeah.\u00a0 And we know \u201cfine\u201d doesn\u2019t \u2013 I mean that\u2019s code word.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 What\u2019s it mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 It means \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cI\u2019m not fine at all.\u201d\u00a0 And as a husband you get that and you go, \u201cOkay, I cannot win at this game.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019ve told wives over and over again, a guy will not continue to play the game that he\u2019s lousy at.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 If he loses at the game every time, he\u2019ll find a different game to play.\u00a0 But now you\u2019re frustrated, you\u2019re not winning at this game, and you\u2019re thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t even know what to blink about.\u201d\u00a0 What does he do in that situation?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Guys are natural at resolving conflict.\u00a0 Guys can resolve conflict on the court; they can resolve conflict in a boardroom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, but when you do it on the court there may be a personal foul involved. You don\u2019t want to do that \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, right.\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 But the reason why we do it really well in those areas is because we know the rules.\u00a0 I think one way you can set the pace when it comes to conflict resolution is don\u2019t decide on the rules in the middle of a conflict.\u00a0 And so we tend to bring in history, and if we just set a rule and say, \u201cYou know, honey, let\u2019s set down some ground rules.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think Tim and Joy Downs have a great book in fighting fair where it talks about some basic rules that you can agree to, so that you can both agree, \u201cHey, I need to throw the flag on that one, because that was just out of bounds.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I don\u2019t often do this, but in the times when Mary Ann and I are experiencing conflict and I\u2019m getting the \u201cI\u2019m fine,\u201d or \u201cNothing\u2019s wrong\u201d treatment, but you know something\u2019s wrong and you\u2019re trying to figure out \u201cwhat did I do?\u201d or \u201cwhat didn\u2019t I do?\u201d and she\u2019s trying for you to find it on your own because that will somehow evidence that she\u2019s not nagging you, but it\u2019s come to you and that\u2019s really what she wants to have happen.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe wise thing I think for me to do in that situation is to say to her like you said at the beginning, \u201cI do love you.\u00a0 I want us to get through whatever this is.\u00a0 I need your help on this, and I understand right now may not be the time where you\u2019re ready to give me the help.\u00a0 When you are, I want to press through it with you and I want to own up to whatever issues I need to own up to.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And I think to say something like that \u2013 it\u2019s not to throw the monkey back on her back, but it\u2019s to say, \u201cWhen you\u2019re ready let\u2019s get this out and let\u2019s deal with it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Sure.\u00a0 I think one of the best things that I\u2019ve done is, I\u2019ll take a mentor, a couple that seems to exhibit a pretty great marriage, and the best $25 you can spend is a lunch out and go, \u201cOkay, what are your best practices?\u00a0 How have you handled conflict?\u201d\u00a0 And just take notes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What\u2019s been your biggest \u2013 if there\u2019s a blind spot or a trap you keep stepping into when it comes to conflict, is it one thing that you kind of fall back on that you\u2019re having to work your way out of?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think if Jen were here she would say that I will retreat.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Is that shut down?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019ll shut down.\u00a0 Proverbs 18:1 \u2013 it says that when a man isolates himself, he seeks out his own destruction; he breaks out against all sound judgment.\u00a0 And it never fails, every time I isolate myself I\u2019m seeking my own destruction, and it doesn\u2019t help the cause.\u00a0 And so for me it\u2019s simply in those moments thinking about God going, \u201cGoins, I need you in the game here.\u00a0 There\u2019s more on the line than just your right for vindication.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019ve been talking about this metaphor of you being the rower, the stroke, isn\u2019t that what you called it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The guy who sets the pace in the boat, and that\u2019s what a husband is supposed to do in the marital boat, set the pace, and you\u2019ve coached us on setting the pace when it comes to romance, and setting the pace when it comes to conflict.\u00a0 You said that the third area that\u2019s a struggle for you has been setting the pace spiritually.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 As a pastor and as a seminary-trained man, this has been a challenge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yeah.\u00a0 Yeah, it\u2019s been a big challenge.\u00a0 I remember Jen one time early on in our relationship said, \u201cWhy is it you pray with all these other guys, but you don\u2019t pray with me?\u201d\u00a0 And I had no answer.\u00a0 I just had this intimidation about prayer with Jen.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI felt like I needed to perform, like I had to pray like Billy Graham or in King James only, and it was just a real struggle.\u00a0 But I just never saw it \u2013 and you never see it on TV or in the movies.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know if you grew up watching John Wayne, but I never heard John Wayne say, \u201cAlright, little lady, before these little cowpokes come and take your ranch, let\u2019s take a knee.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0(laughing)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou never heard Mel Gibson say, \u201cThey may take our wives, they may take our lives, but they\u2019ll never take our freedom.\u00a0 Now let\u2019s take a knee before we slaughter the English.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou don\u2019t ever hear that.\u00a0 So we don\u2019t have these models that sit down and go, \u201cThis is how you pray with your wife.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of my favorite verses on prayer is in Ecclesiastes.\u00a0 I think every man should know this verse on prayer. It\u2019s \u201cGod is in heaven, you are on earth, so let your words be few.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMost of the prayers in the Bible \u2013 I mean the Lord\u2019s Prayer \u2013 you can say it in 30 seconds.\u00a0 You\u2019re just talking to Abba Father, to your daddy, and this idea that when things are \u2013 whether it\u2019s a conflict, whether it\u2019s a struggle where we put our kids into education \u2013 all Jen is wanting me to do is to let her know that I\u2019m man enough to ask for directions to God.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So now you\u2019ve got a book out called <em>Playing Hurt<\/em>, and you\u2019re talking about this issue.\u00a0 If I went back to year two of your marriage, scale of one to ten, where were you in terms of setting the spiritual pace for your marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Probably a two.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Where are you today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 I would say probably an eight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019ve made some progress.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 I wouldn\u2019t say that I\u2019m a ten at all, and I don\u2019t know what Jen would say.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We ought to call her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think the phone\u2019s down.\u00a0 I really hope that I initiate more.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And has this prayer been the biggest part of getting from a two to an eight?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it really has.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So what will that look like today in your relationship with her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, some guys are real disciplined and diligent about it, and they\u2019re like \u201cPray with your wife every day.\u201d\u00a0 That standard is just way too high for me, but I also don\u2019t want it to be before there\u2019s a meal on the table either.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 And so it\u2019s when things are coming up in our relationship that we know we\u2019re struggling with.\u00a0 At night especially, after we\u2019ve put all the kids to bed, sometimes I\u2019ll just take her hand and say, \u201cHoney, we just need to pray.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIs it two, three times a week?\u00a0 I\u2019m not really sure.\u00a0 I don\u2019t have a set time, but I think I\u2019m just being far more consistent in grabbing her hand, letting her know that \u201cI\u2019m struggling just like you are, Jen, on this, and so let\u2019s pray about it.\u201d\u00a0 The more you do it the easier it becomes, and just fighting through that intimidation.\u00a0 And the enemy does not want men leading their wives spiritually.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And wives respond to the initiation of prayer on the part of the husband like nothing I\u2019ve ever seen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, man.\u00a0 And going back to those texting turn ones, I would say that 50 percent had to do with prayer and reading the Bible.\u00a0 And if guys could just go, \u201cReally?\u00a0 That\u2019s foreplay?\u201d\u00a0 Not that that\u2019s the reason why you do it.\u00a0 It\u2019s like, \u201cAlright, honey, let\u2019s have a quiet time.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 But to realize that they feel that love, they want to be led there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think you\u2019ve done a good job here of helping all of us figure out how we can do a better job of setting the pace in these areas.\u00a0 I\u2019m guessing you\u2019re not alone in terms of romance, conflict, and spiritual initiation as being areas in your marriage where you need some help setting the pace.\u00a0 I\u2019m guessing that there are a lot of guys who can nod their heads and say, \u201cYes, I can relate to that.\u00a0 I understand exactly what you\u2019re talking about.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Brian:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And it was those guys you had in mind when you wrote your book, <em>Playing Hurt,<\/em> which we\u2019ve got in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 It\u2019s a great book for husbands as you call us to stay in the game even in the hard times.\u00a0 And we\u2019re going to have them as men.\u00a0 If you\u2019d like a copy of Brian\u2019s book, go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about how to get a copy.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, it\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com, or call toll-free at 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800 \u201cF\u201d as in Family, \u201cL\u201d as in Life, and then the word \u201cToday.\u201d\u00a0 We can make arrangements to have a copy of the book, <em>Playing Hurt,<\/em> sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd of course next Friday night is the national release of the movie <em>Courageous<\/em>, a great movie for guys, and this month we\u2019ve got copies of Dennis Rainey\u2019s new book called <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe eBook is available for download at a special price now through October 15<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 If you\u2019d like to find out how you can download a copy of Dennis\u2019 book, <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em> for your Kindle or for your iBook or for your Nook, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information.\u00a0 Again, it\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com, and of course it\u2019s an instant download.\u00a0 So get more information when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you\u2019d like to get a copy of Dennis\u2019 book as a hardback book, this week we\u2019re making that available to those of you who help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with a donation.\u00a0 Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 We\u2019re listener-supported, and your donation is what helps keep us on this station and on our network of stations all across the country.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you make your donation, if you\u2019d like to get a copy of Dennis\u2019 book, type the word STEP in the key code box on the online donation form, or call 1-800-FLTODAY, make a donation over the phone, and ask to have a copy of Dennis\u2019 book, <em>Stepping Up<\/em>, sent to you, and we\u2019ll get it in the mail, and hopefully we\u2019ll get it to you in time so that if you do go see <em>Courageous <\/em>next weekend when the movie comes out, you\u2019ll have Dennis\u2019 book there to start reading as soon as you\u2019re done seeing the film.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, we appreciate your support of the ministry.\u00a0 It is always great to hear from you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 Hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend.\u00a0 We want to invite you back on Monday when we\u2019re going to meet a remarkable Mom and hear the story of how her family grew and grew and grew.\u00a0 It\u2019s a great story, and I hope you can tune in and be with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back on Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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