{"id":302363,"date":"2011-09-19T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2011-09-19T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/gaining-by-losing\/"},"modified":"2011-09-19T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2011-09-19T15:00:00","slug":"gaining-by-losing","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gaining-by-losing\/","title":{"rendered":"Gaining by Losing"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Of course your children want a lot.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-09-19.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.02M","filesize_raw":"24134722","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2851],"tags":[4925,4525,4853],"podcast_series":[7825],"cwp_profile":[3125],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302363","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-finances","tag-budgets","tag-finances","tag-money","podcast_series-living-with-less-so-your-family-has-more","cwp_profile-jill-savage","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302363\/gaining-by-losing","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302363\/gaining-by-losing","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"TLWofi1FVA\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gaining-by-losing\/\">Gaining by Losing<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gaining-by-losing\/embed\/#?secret=TLWofi1FVA\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Gaining by Losing&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"TLWofi1FVA\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-09-19.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-09-19.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0When married couples have conflict, oftentimes it\u2019s about children or sex or money.\u00a0 Jill Savage says she and her husband had a lot of conflict around money, but when you peeled it back, it wasn\u2019t really about money:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t having money or not having money, it was the lack of a plan.\u00a0 We didn\u2019t even realize that.\u00a0 You know what I needed to know?\u00a0 It was that my husband and I had a plan and that we agreed on that plan and that we were together on that plan.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, September 19<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Is money ever an issue around your house?\u00a0 Maybe money isn\u2019t the real issue.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about that today.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 You know what my first thought was when Mary Ann came to me years ago and said, \u201cWe\u2019re expecting.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to have a baby\u201d?\u00a0 Do you know what my first thought was?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, knowing you as I know you, Bob, probably your first thought was, \u201cRats!\u00a0 We\u2019re going to have to divide the pizza now between three!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t exactly that, but you\u2019re on the right course.\u00a0 We knew that when we started having children, Mary Ann would want to stay home and be with the kids.\u00a0 That was what I had hoped that she would be able to do, and that\u2019s what she wanted to do.\u00a0 The problem was that she was working as a nurse.\u00a0 She was a Registered Nurse.\u00a0 I was working in radio.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Who was making more?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You can answer that just right off the top!\u00a0 So I was starting to think, \u201cOK, so we\u2019re going to go from two mouths to three, and from two checks to one.\u00a0 Whoa!\u00a0 How do we do this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember, as a husband, thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t know if that adds up.\u201d\u00a0 It really was a step of faith on our part to say, \u201cOK, we\u2019ll do this and figure out how to make it work along the way.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, when Barbara and I ended up with six, I don\u2019t remember having a conscious thought of. . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ended up with six?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, we ended up with six.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was just thinking of jumping from one, where you started out with what you were talking about, and now we just kind of started adding them.\u00a0 There wasn\u2019t ever really a moment where Barbara and I sat down and said, \u201cYou know, these are costly little critters here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cWhat are we doing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And it wasn\u2019t until years later it was like, \u201cWhoa!\u00a0 This is amazing.\u00a0 This is a point of faith.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cCostly little blessings\u201d is how you should . . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you, thank you \u2013 \u201ccostly little blessings\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have someone with us on the broadcast today who, I think, came to grips with the same issue in her own way.\u00a0 Jill Savage joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Jill\u2019s been on the broadcast years ago; in fact, about a decade ago, as I recall.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnyway, Jill, welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you!\u00a0 It\u2019s good to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jill is the founder and CEO of Hearts at Home.\u00a0 She has written a number of books including the classic <em>Professionalizing Motherhood.<\/em>\u00a0 She is the mom of five children.\u00a0 She and Mark live in Illinois, and she has written a book called <em>Living With Less So Your Family Has More<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWas it with the announcement of the pregnancy with your first child that this theme hit you that you needed to live with less so your family had more, or was it like Barbara and me and it hit you a little bit later on?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 It definitely hit us a little bit later on.\u00a0 It really did.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe actually <em>fell<\/em> into the living with less life.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t that we initially made the choice to be at home.\u00a0 Initially, I couldn\u2019t find a job.\u00a0 I began doing daycare in my home, and as I took care of other people\u2019s children, it led us to make a decision that I would be at home at least until the kids were in school.\u00a0 That was what we kind of initially said.\u00a0 So we kind of began living with less by circumstance, not by choice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 In fact, most people in this culture, I think, make that decision by circumstance rather than by choice because we\u2019re so conditioned that if you have the choice, what you go for is the paycheck.\u00a0 Right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 We don\u2019t stop and think about the \u201cmores\u201d that we can experience or the decisions we can make that actually might not provide for our family materially, but provide for our family emotionally and relationally.\u00a0 That was where we finally ended up, but we didn\u2019t start our journey there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What were the circumstances in your life and in your marriage that led you down the \u201cless\u201d path?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, initially, when I couldn\u2019t find a job teaching music, which is what my degree is in, we said, \u201cWell, OK, what are we going to do?\u201d\u00a0 My husband was in full-time seminary.\u00a0 We needed some way to make money.\u00a0 We said, \u201cGosh,\u201d and we had two little ones at the time, \u201cI\u2019ll do daycare in my home.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe lived in married student housing and made a logical decision to do daycare.\u00a0 As I took care of other people\u2019s kids, I just began to think, \u201cWow!\u00a0 Look what I would be missing.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 I really remember having a conversation with my husband one evening after we were about eighteen months into this thing, and saying, \u201cI don\u2019t know that I can go back to work.\u201d\u00a0 I really struggled with leaving my kids at that point in time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I kind of discovered it by accident.\u00a0 We both said, \u201cOK, this is great.\u00a0 Here\u2019s what we\u2019re going to do.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to make a decision that we will have one income until the kids are in school.\u201d\u00a0 It was a great plan except for the fact that we kept having kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, but here\u2019s the thing:\u00a0 some couples today are making decisions before they have children that prevent them from even having the freedom to be able to make that decision that you made.\u00a0 They\u2019re in debt up to their ears!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 With student loans, most people are starting off in that direction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 That is one of the things we do address in the book <em>Living With Less So Your Family Has More.<\/em>\u00a0 Honestly, we started out there.\u00a0 We were really barely making it by the skin of our teeth because we had debt.\u00a0 Looking back on that \u2013 in fact, that\u2019s one of the things we hope to do as we talk about this subject, is to help couples who are early enough in the process to have that freedom to make that decision some day when they have kids of their own.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I haven\u2019t read this passage on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> in some time.\u00a0 I used to quote this a lot, Bob, and I\u2019m not sure why I haven\u2019t quoted it recently, but it\u2019s Ephesians 5:15:\u00a0 \u201cLook carefully, then, how you walk; not as unwise, but as wise, making the best use of the time because the days are evil.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, what the Scriptures admonish us to do is really look out beyond the immediacy of our own personal wants and desires of today and realize that we\u2019re making value decisions that are determining our future.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But the culture is sending such a . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh!\u00a0 It\u2019s bombarding us!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s huge, and it almost feels irresistible when you walk in to Best Buy and see that wall of flat-panel TVs and you think about the 19\u201d that you\u2019ve still got at home . . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You just say, \u201cI can\u2019t live in this culture \u2013 I can\u2019t be a citizen of America \u2013 unless I\u2019ve got that with internet access and wireless, you know?\u00a0 It\u2019s just the expectations there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and you know what we really (my husband and I) have finally called that what it is:\u00a0 it is peer pressure.\u00a0 That\u2019s what you\u2019re talking about.\u00a0 You walk into Best Buy, or you walk into your neighbor\u2019s house, or you look out the window at your neighbor\u2019s brand new car, and that\u2019s peer pressure when you feel like you need to drive a certain car, live in a certain neighborhood, and wear certain clothes.\u00a0 That\u2019s peer pressure!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we don\u2019t call it what it is and if we don\u2019t deal with it in that way and understand it and remove the control it has on our life, then we will get sucked into that and we\u2019ll end up in a place, honestly, that we didn\u2019t even want to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re talking about peer pressure.\u00a0 There are also just the desires of our heart.\u00a0 We want what we want when we want it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes we do!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 This verse has been bouncing around in my brain recently and part of the reason is I\u2019ve got a car \u2013 actually, two cars \u2013 with a quarter of a million miles on them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Each one?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s combined?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Combined.\u00a0 They\u2019re not fossils but they\u2019re not new, OK, and there are problems with that.\u00a0 I think of this passage from Ecclesiastes and, by the way, Ecclesiastes is a great book for today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe preacher said, \u2018So I became great and surpassed all who were before me in Jerusalem.\u00a0 Also my wisdom remained with me and whatever my eyes desired, I did not keep from them.\u00a0 I kept my heart from no pleasure, for my heart found pleasure in all my toil, and this was my reward for all my toil.\u201d\u00a0 [Ecclesiastes 2:9-10]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, MasterCard and Visa, that\u2019s the reward for your toil!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 They ought to put that verse on the back of the card, don\u2019t you think?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yeah . . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCount on that happening!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut our eyes, you know \u2013 some of it is peer pressure, some of it\u2019s the advertising of the culture, constantly telling us that what we have is not enough and we need to have more.\u00a0 We live in the most affluent age that has ever existed since the beginning of time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, we do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s tough on young couples when they\u2019re starting out.\u00a0 They need to realize the decisions they\u2019re making today can determine the freedom they enjoy after they have children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But here\u2019s what they are oftentimes thinking, Jill (and I want you to speak to this):\u00a0 they\u2019re thinking, \u201cIf we don\u2019t have \u2018x, y, and z\u2019 \u2013 if this isn\u2019t there \u2013 then my happiness will diminish.\u00a0 I will have less enjoyment from life.\u00a0 I just can\u2019t imagine living without these things being a part of my life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right!\u00a0 You\u2019re exactly right.\u00a0 What we don\u2019t realize is that those things don\u2019t really provide us the happiness that we think they will.\u00a0 I do believe, as parents, when we look at providing for our family, we look at providing <em>things, opportunities<\/em>.\u00a0 We look at those kind of things as providing, and, of course, financially providing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut there is so much more to providing for our family!\u00a0 We need to provide emotional stability.\u00a0 We need to provide a marriage that\u2019s intact.\u00a0 We need to provide relational depth.\u00a0 Those are the things that really matter.\u00a0 When you get to the end, it\u2019s not \u201chow many toys do I have,\u201d but it\u2019s \u201cwhat kind of relationships do I have.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut when we are looking in the moment \u2013 when we are near-sighted instead of far-sighted \u2013 we don\u2019t realize that we\u2019re easily making those mistakes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 One of the things I would encourage a young couple to do who are, perhaps, on the beginning side of the curve here (and maybe they\u2019ve already had a child or two, so they\u2019re just venturing into what we\u2019re talking about here) is that when there is an offer of a pay raise and a promotion, instead of just assuming that the answer is, \u201cOf course!;\u201d instead, push back and surround yourself with some wise, godly counselors, hopefully from\u00a0 your church or from relationships around you that are a bit older, and ask them the question, \u201cShould I take this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAsk them to help you to count the cost of what that decision is going to mean . . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because you mentioned relationships.\u00a0 If you\u2019re in a great family church where you are being fed, you\u2019re growing; it\u2019s not that there can\u2019t be another great church in another city somewhere, but it\u2019s not like it\u2019s a \u201cplug and play\u201d deal, where you unplug form this great church and these great relationships and you automatically plug into another community.\u00a0 It takes three to five years to begin to get settled and establish those relationships.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s a cost to that.\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 There is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 We really have to think <em>bigger<\/em> than what we do!\u00a0 We often just think about it from a financial perspective.\u00a0 We think, \u201cOh, this is going to be great!,\u201d but we don\u2019t think about all of the other ripples that it will affect. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think part of learning to live with less is not always moving from two incomes to one income.\u00a0 We know a family in our community \u2013 and where we live, State Farm Insurance is a <em>huge<\/em> employer.\u00a0 In different levels of that company, you have the opportunity to move.\u00a0 You have opportunities to move up the scale.\u00a0 We know one family, where there choice to live with less is for him to get off the moving scale.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, that limits how much he can move up in the company.\u00a0 It limits his earning power.\u00a0 But they\u2019ve counted the cost and looked at it and said, \u201cThe money\u2019s not the most important thing.\u00a0 Stability for our family is important.\u00a0 Me being able to be home for dinner every night is important.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what living with less looks like.\u00a0 It\u2019s not always what we immediately think of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, oftentimes for men, the issue of what you bring home and how much you make is really tied to your sense of worth as a husband and a father.\u00a0 This is what you\u2019re supposed to do; this validates that you are a provider.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOftentimes, for wives and moms, the money that is brought home, in the bank, available . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 . . . boy, their well-being around the issue of security is really attached to, \u201cDo we have the money right here and I know where it\u2019s going to come from\u201d and all of that.\u00a0 So, those two motivations oftentimes drive us in the direction of <em>more<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just curious with you:\u00a0 when circumstances led you in a different direction, was that security issue for you a big deal?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh yeah!\u00a0 (laughing)\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDefinitely!\u00a0 I think it\u2019s Dave Ramsey who says that women have this little \u201csecurity gland,\u201d you know? . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t. . . that men don\u2019t seem to have, and it is directly correlated with finances.\u00a0 What I actually realized it was, for me, was not that I needed to know that there was money in the bank.\u00a0 You know what I needed to know?\u00a0 It was that my husband and I had a plan, and that we agreed on that plan, and that we were together on that plan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhether there was money in the bank or there wasn\u2019t money in the bank, I can\u2019t believe the difference in the security that I felt just having us unified in the direction that we were going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re talking about a man ultimately providing the kind of leadership that creates the comfort for the wife to say, \u201cHe\u2019s got it!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cHe\u2019s being responsible.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cHe\u2019s not stepping down; he\u2019s stepping up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just finished a book called <em>Stepping Up<\/em> and, in the book, what I\u2019m talking about with men is calling them to step up and provide this kind of leadership of their wives.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t mean that they solve the problem.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t mean that they somehow wave a magic wand over the situation and, \u201cPoof!\u00a0 There\u2019s a solution.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt does mean that they say, \u201cSweetheart.\u00a0 I hear you.\u00a0 I know what you need.\u00a0 Here\u2019s what we\u2019re going to do,\u201d or \u201cLet\u2019s talk about what we\u2019re going to do,\u201d . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 . . . \u201cLet\u2019s come to an agreement of what our plan is.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 In this culture, where men are unemployed today \u2013 I talked to a man the other day who had been unemployed for a year and a half.\u00a0 For a man who has been unemployed for a year and a half, it is not good for his esteem as a man to just be floating.\u00a0 He needs to get a job somewhere, anywhere, doing something.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf he doesn\u2019t, his wife is going to \u2013 well, she\u2019s going to find that security gland that you were speaking of. . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 . . . and she\u2019s going to try to take over at some point, with her husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Are you saying deliver pizzas if that\u2019s what you can do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely!\u00a0 Flip a burger!\u00a0 I mean, I don\u2019t want to sound demeaning to men at this point, but if my family needed me to go to work in a fast food restaurant in order to provide, I hope I could choke down whatever the humiliation was of whatever position I used to have and do that to say, \u201cI will take charge.\u00a0 I will step up.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to be the man!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just think the man who stays out of work for long is not healthy.\u00a0 It\u2019s not good for his marriage.\u00a0 It\u2019s not good for him.\u00a0 It\u2019s not good for his family, either.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 You just said a minute ago, though, providing her the leadership.\u00a0 I think there you\u2019re talking about the whole provision thing.\u00a0 See, I think we limit providing to money.\u00a0 We just routinely think that.\u00a0 In that particular case, in our relationship, I needed Mark to provide that leadership.\u00a0 You\u2019re exactly right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt wasn\u2019t that he had to have all the answers.\u00a0 It\u2019s that we would come to them together oftentimes.\u00a0 It was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know how to solve this problem.\u201d\u00a0 You know, he didn\u2019t have to fix it.\u00a0 He didn\u2019t have to have all the answers, but to actually value us; unified, setting vision for our family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cWhat is our vision for debt?\u00a0 No debt, little debt \u2013 what is it?\u00a0 What are we going to do about it?\u00a0 What does this look like?\u201d\u00a0 And that was <em>providing <\/em>for our family when he did that.\u00a0 It\u2019s not always just about money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, if your family is going to live with less so it can ultimately have more, it\u2019s going to mean that a husband and a wife are singing off the same song sheet.\u00a0 They have to be together if they\u2019re going to downsize the schedule, downsize the funding, and downsize commitments.\u00a0 It also means, I think, that a couple needs to be in agreement with where they\u2019re headed, what their core values are, what they\u2019re about, and where they refuse to fail.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, here\u2019s the question \u2013 and I can\u2019t leave today without asking this \u2013 are we saying here that if you <em>can<\/em> live with less, you ought to, or are we saying that\u2019s a decision that families need to come to on their own?\u00a0 Because there are folks who are saying, \u201cWell, you know, we\u2019re doing OK.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re doing OK!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cWe could live with less.\u201d\u00a0 Are you saying we should if we can?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think the question that Jill is raising here is a healthy question for every family to consider.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because I think the nature of the consumption lifestyle we\u2019re surrounded by in America is to live with <em>more<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re constantly being fed that steady diet of \u201cmore is better\u201d \u2013 more money, more . . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Activities.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes \u2013 on and on and on.\u00a0 Even the Christian community can fall into this, so I think regardless of whether you\u2019re struggling over this issue or not, it\u2019s just good to push back from the table a bit \u2013 much like a diet \u2013 and say, \u201cHow are we doing here?\u00a0 Are we winning or are we losing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 I agree.\u00a0 You know what?\u00a0 We did a workshop by the same title, \u201cLiving with Less So Your Family has More,\u201d at one of our Hearts at Home conferences.\u00a0 There was a woman who found herself in there and then thought, \u201cWhy did I sign up for this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHer husband was a high-paid lawyer in Los Angeles; very well-to-do.\u00a0 \u201cWhy am I even here?\u201d\u00a0 She thought about going out and finding another workshop, but then she just felt like she was supposed to stay.\u00a0 By the end of the workshop, she said, \u201cI figured out why I\u2019m here.\u00a0 If we learn to live with less, we can give more.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was eye-opening that she had <em>not<\/em> thought about that before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Dennis, you didn\u2019t finish the rest of Ecclesiastes 2 when you were there, when Solomon is saying, \u201cEverything I saw that I wanted, I bought for myself.\u201d\u00a0 Doesn\u2019t he conclude that passage by saying in the end, it was empty?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, he said, \u201cThen I considered all that my hands had done, and the toil I had expended in doing it; and behold, all was vanity and striving after the wind.\u00a0 There was nothing to be gained under the sun.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wow!\u00a0 So the pursuit of consumerism and everything you want - and maybe you can afford to buy two flat panels and even one for the pool house . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you think that\u2019s where you\u2019re going to find contentment and life and joy, you can take the testimony of Solomon who says, \u201cIt\u2019s not there.\u00a0 I tried it and it is vanity.\u201d\u00a0 I think that\u2019s a part of how we\u2019ve got to readjust our thinking in a culture that\u2019s telling us that more stuff will bring us satisfaction and joy and meaning and purpose in life.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJill, you\u2019ve done us a service in the book that you\u2019ve written, <em>Living With Less So Your Family Has More<\/em>.\u00a0 You\u2019re helping us pull back and think, \u201cWhat does really matter?\u00a0 What are we anchoring our family to?\u00a0 Is it the pursuit of stuff, or is there something more significant and more important that we ought to be focusing on and being tethered to?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to encourage listeners; we\u2019ve got copies of Jill Savage\u2019s book, <em>Living With Less So Your Family Has More.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>You can go to our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 It\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com; that\u2019s the website, FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Or call toll-free; 1-800-FLTODAY is the number.\u00a0 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-F as in \u201cfamily,\u201d L as in \u201clife,\u201d and then the word \u201ctoday.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe can let you know how you can get a copy of Jill Savage\u2019s book, <em>Living With Less So Your Family Has More.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, I want to say a word of thanks to those of you who, as you have made adjustments to your family budget, have been able to find a way to support the ministry of FamilyLife.\u00a0 Some of you do it each month as a \u201cLegacy Partner.\u201d\u00a0 Some of you make a donation from time to time as you are able to do that.\u00a0 Whichever it is you do, we appreciate your support.\u00a0 It means a lot to us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re listener supported and it\u2019s those funds that make it possible to cover the production and syndication costs associated with <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>This month, if you can help with a donation, we\u2019d like to send you a copy of Dennis Rainey\u2019s new book <em>Stepping Up:<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>A Call to Courageous Manhood.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>There\u2019s been a lot of interest in this book, especially with the new movie <em>Courageous<\/em> coming out next week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, I know there are some guys getting together to go through this book after they go see the movie in a men\u2019s small group setting.\u00a0 You may want to consider doing something like that as well.\u00a0 If you\u2019re interested in a copy of Dennis\u2019s book, <em>Stepping Up, <\/em>you can request it when you make a donation this month.\u00a0\u00a0 Simply type the word \u201cSTEP\u201d into the key code box on the online donation form when you make your donation online, or call 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 You can make your donation over the phone and just ask for Dennis\u2019s book <em>Stepping Up.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>We\u2019re happy to send it to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe appreciate your partnership with us here in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we\u2019re going to talk more about how families can reorder their priorities, get their finances in order, and help their children understand how to prioritize money and finances as well.\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk about that tomorrow; hope you can join us!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.02M"],"filesize_raw":["24134722"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302363.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302363.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: 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course your children want a lot.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-09-19.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0When married couples have conflict, oftentimes it\u2019s about children or sex or money.\u00a0 Jill Savage says she and her husband had a lot of conflict around money, but when you peeled it back, it wasn\u2019t really about money:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t having money or not having money, it was the lack of a plan.\u00a0 We didn\u2019t even realize that.\u00a0 You know what I needed to know?\u00a0 It was that my husband and I had a plan and that we agreed on that plan and that we were together on that plan.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, September 19<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Is money ever an issue around your house?\u00a0 Maybe money isn\u2019t the real issue.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about that today.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 You know what my first thought was when Mary Ann came to me years ago and said, \u201cWe\u2019re expecting.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to have a baby\u201d?\u00a0 Do you know what my first thought was?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, knowing you as I know you, Bob, probably your first thought was, \u201cRats!\u00a0 We\u2019re going to have to divide the pizza now between three!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t exactly that, but you\u2019re on the right course.\u00a0 We knew that when we started having children, Mary Ann would want to stay home and be with the kids.\u00a0 That was what I had hoped that she would be able to do, and that\u2019s what she wanted to do.\u00a0 The problem was that she was working as a nurse.\u00a0 She was a Registered Nurse.\u00a0 I was working in radio.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Who was making more?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You can answer that just right off the top!\u00a0 So I was starting to think, \u201cOK, so we\u2019re going to go from two mouths to three, and from two checks to one.\u00a0 Whoa!\u00a0 How do we do this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember, as a husband, thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t know if that adds up.\u201d\u00a0 It really was a step of faith on our part to say, \u201cOK, we\u2019ll do this and figure out how to make it work along the way.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, when Barbara and I ended up with six, I don\u2019t remember having a conscious thought of. . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ended up with six?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, we ended up with six.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was just thinking of jumping from one, where you started out with what you were talking about, and now we just kind of started adding them.\u00a0 There wasn\u2019t ever really a moment where Barbara and I sat down and said, \u201cYou know, these are costly little critters here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cWhat are we doing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And it wasn\u2019t until years later it was like, \u201cWhoa!\u00a0 This is amazing.\u00a0 This is a point of faith.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cCostly little blessings\u201d is how you should . . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you, thank you \u2013 \u201ccostly little blessings\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have someone with us on the broadcast today who, I think, came to grips with the same issue in her own way.\u00a0 Jill Savage joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Jill\u2019s been on the broadcast years ago; in fact, about a decade ago, as I recall.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnyway, Jill, welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you!\u00a0 It\u2019s good to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jill is the founder and CEO of Hearts at Home.\u00a0 She has written a number of books including the classic <em>Professionalizing Motherhood.<\/em>\u00a0 She is the mom of five children.\u00a0 She and Mark live in Illinois, and she has written a book called <em>Living With Less So Your Family Has More<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWas it with the announcement of the pregnancy with your first child that this theme hit you that you needed to live with less so your family had more, or was it like Barbara and me and it hit you a little bit later on?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 It definitely hit us a little bit later on.\u00a0 It really did.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe actually <em>fell<\/em> into the living with less life.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t that we initially made the choice to be at home.\u00a0 Initially, I couldn\u2019t find a job.\u00a0 I began doing daycare in my home, and as I took care of other people\u2019s children, it led us to make a decision that I would be at home at least until the kids were in school.\u00a0 That was what we kind of initially said.\u00a0 So we kind of began living with less by circumstance, not by choice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 In fact, most people in this culture, I think, make that decision by circumstance rather than by choice because we\u2019re so conditioned that if you have the choice, what you go for is the paycheck.\u00a0 Right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 We don\u2019t stop and think about the \u201cmores\u201d that we can experience or the decisions we can make that actually might not provide for our family materially, but provide for our family emotionally and relationally.\u00a0 That was where we finally ended up, but we didn\u2019t start our journey there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 What were the circumstances in your life and in your marriage that led you down the \u201cless\u201d path?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, initially, when I couldn\u2019t find a job teaching music, which is what my degree is in, we said, \u201cWell, OK, what are we going to do?\u201d\u00a0 My husband was in full-time seminary.\u00a0 We needed some way to make money.\u00a0 We said, \u201cGosh,\u201d and we had two little ones at the time, \u201cI\u2019ll do daycare in my home.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe lived in married student housing and made a logical decision to do daycare.\u00a0 As I took care of other people\u2019s kids, I just began to think, \u201cWow!\u00a0 Look what I would be missing.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 I really remember having a conversation with my husband one evening after we were about eighteen months into this thing, and saying, \u201cI don\u2019t know that I can go back to work.\u201d\u00a0 I really struggled with leaving my kids at that point in time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I kind of discovered it by accident.\u00a0 We both said, \u201cOK, this is great.\u00a0 Here\u2019s what we\u2019re going to do.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to make a decision that we will have one income until the kids are in school.\u201d\u00a0 It was a great plan except for the fact that we kept having kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, but here\u2019s the thing:\u00a0 some couples today are making decisions before they have children that prevent them from even having the freedom to be able to make that decision that you made.\u00a0 They\u2019re in debt up to their ears!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 With student loans, most people are starting off in that direction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 That is one of the things we do address in the book <em>Living With Less So Your Family Has More.<\/em>\u00a0 Honestly, we started out there.\u00a0 We were really barely making it by the skin of our teeth because we had debt.\u00a0 Looking back on that \u2013 in fact, that\u2019s one of the things we hope to do as we talk about this subject, is to help couples who are early enough in the process to have that freedom to make that decision some day when they have kids of their own.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I haven\u2019t read this passage on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> in some time.\u00a0 I used to quote this a lot, Bob, and I\u2019m not sure why I haven\u2019t quoted it recently, but it\u2019s Ephesians 5:15:\u00a0 \u201cLook carefully, then, how you walk; not as unwise, but as wise, making the best use of the time because the days are evil.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, what the Scriptures admonish us to do is really look out beyond the immediacy of our own personal wants and desires of today and realize that we\u2019re making value decisions that are determining our future.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But the culture is sending such a . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh!\u00a0 It\u2019s bombarding us!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s huge, and it almost feels irresistible when you walk in to Best Buy and see that wall of flat-panel TVs and you think about the 19\u201d that you\u2019ve still got at home . . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You just say, \u201cI can\u2019t live in this culture \u2013 I can\u2019t be a citizen of America \u2013 unless I\u2019ve got that with internet access and wireless, you know?\u00a0 It\u2019s just the expectations there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and you know what we really (my husband and I) have finally called that what it is:\u00a0 it is peer pressure.\u00a0 That\u2019s what you\u2019re talking about.\u00a0 You walk into Best Buy, or you walk into your neighbor\u2019s house, or you look out the window at your neighbor\u2019s brand new car, and that\u2019s peer pressure when you feel like you need to drive a certain car, live in a certain neighborhood, and wear certain clothes.\u00a0 That\u2019s peer pressure!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we don\u2019t call it what it is and if we don\u2019t deal with it in that way and understand it and remove the control it has on our life, then we will get sucked into that and we\u2019ll end up in a place, honestly, that we didn\u2019t even want to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re talking about peer pressure.\u00a0 There are also just the desires of our heart.\u00a0 We want what we want when we want it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes we do!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 This verse has been bouncing around in my brain recently and part of the reason is I\u2019ve got a car \u2013 actually, two cars \u2013 with a quarter of a million miles on them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Each one?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s combined?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Combined.\u00a0 They\u2019re not fossils but they\u2019re not new, OK, and there are problems with that.\u00a0 I think of this passage from Ecclesiastes and, by the way, Ecclesiastes is a great book for today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe preacher said, \u2018So I became great and surpassed all who were before me in Jerusalem.\u00a0 Also my wisdom remained with me and whatever my eyes desired, I did not keep from them.\u00a0 I kept my heart from no pleasure, for my heart found pleasure in all my toil, and this was my reward for all my toil.\u201d\u00a0 [Ecclesiastes 2:9-10]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, MasterCard and Visa, that\u2019s the reward for your toil!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 They ought to put that verse on the back of the card, don\u2019t you think?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yeah . . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCount on that happening!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut our eyes, you know \u2013 some of it is peer pressure, some of it\u2019s the advertising of the culture, constantly telling us that what we have is not enough and we need to have more.\u00a0 We live in the most affluent age that has ever existed since the beginning of time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, we do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s tough on young couples when they\u2019re starting out.\u00a0 They need to realize the decisions they\u2019re making today can determine the freedom they enjoy after they have children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But here\u2019s what they are oftentimes thinking, Jill (and I want you to speak to this):\u00a0 they\u2019re thinking, \u201cIf we don\u2019t have \u2018x, y, and z\u2019 \u2013 if this isn\u2019t there \u2013 then my happiness will diminish.\u00a0 I will have less enjoyment from life.\u00a0 I just can\u2019t imagine living without these things being a part of my life.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right!\u00a0 You\u2019re exactly right.\u00a0 What we don\u2019t realize is that those things don\u2019t really provide us the happiness that we think they will.\u00a0 I do believe, as parents, when we look at providing for our family, we look at providing <em>things, opportunities<\/em>.\u00a0 We look at those kind of things as providing, and, of course, financially providing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut there is so much more to providing for our family!\u00a0 We need to provide emotional stability.\u00a0 We need to provide a marriage that\u2019s intact.\u00a0 We need to provide relational depth.\u00a0 Those are the things that really matter.\u00a0 When you get to the end, it\u2019s not \u201chow many toys do I have,\u201d but it\u2019s \u201cwhat kind of relationships do I have.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut when we are looking in the moment \u2013 when we are near-sighted instead of far-sighted \u2013 we don\u2019t realize that we\u2019re easily making those mistakes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 One of the things I would encourage a young couple to do who are, perhaps, on the beginning side of the curve here (and maybe they\u2019ve already had a child or two, so they\u2019re just venturing into what we\u2019re talking about here) is that when there is an offer of a pay raise and a promotion, instead of just assuming that the answer is, \u201cOf course!;\u201d instead, push back and surround yourself with some wise, godly counselors, hopefully from\u00a0 your church or from relationships around you that are a bit older, and ask them the question, \u201cShould I take this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAsk them to help you to count the cost of what that decision is going to mean . . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because you mentioned relationships.\u00a0 If you\u2019re in a great family church where you are being fed, you\u2019re growing; it\u2019s not that there can\u2019t be another great church in another city somewhere, but it\u2019s not like it\u2019s a \u201cplug and play\u201d deal, where you unplug form this great church and these great relationships and you automatically plug into another community.\u00a0 It takes three to five years to begin to get settled and establish those relationships.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s a cost to that.\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 There is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 We really have to think <em>bigger<\/em> than what we do!\u00a0 We often just think about it from a financial perspective.\u00a0 We think, \u201cOh, this is going to be great!,\u201d but we don\u2019t think about all of the other ripples that it will affect. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think part of learning to live with less is not always moving from two incomes to one income.\u00a0 We know a family in our community \u2013 and where we live, State Farm Insurance is a <em>huge<\/em> employer.\u00a0 In different levels of that company, you have the opportunity to move.\u00a0 You have opportunities to move up the scale.\u00a0 We know one family, where there choice to live with less is for him to get off the moving scale.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, that limits how much he can move up in the company.\u00a0 It limits his earning power.\u00a0 But they\u2019ve counted the cost and looked at it and said, \u201cThe money\u2019s not the most important thing.\u00a0 Stability for our family is important.\u00a0 Me being able to be home for dinner every night is important.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what living with less looks like.\u00a0 It\u2019s not always what we immediately think of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, oftentimes for men, the issue of what you bring home and how much you make is really tied to your sense of worth as a husband and a father.\u00a0 This is what you\u2019re supposed to do; this validates that you are a provider.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOftentimes, for wives and moms, the money that is brought home, in the bank, available . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 . . . boy, their well-being around the issue of security is really attached to, \u201cDo we have the money right here and I know where it\u2019s going to come from\u201d and all of that.\u00a0 So, those two motivations oftentimes drive us in the direction of <em>more<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m just curious with you:\u00a0 when circumstances led you in a different direction, was that security issue for you a big deal?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh yeah!\u00a0 (laughing)\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDefinitely!\u00a0 I think it\u2019s Dave Ramsey who says that women have this little \u201csecurity gland,\u201d you know? . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t. . . that men don\u2019t seem to have, and it is directly correlated with finances.\u00a0 What I actually realized it was, for me, was not that I needed to know that there was money in the bank.\u00a0 You know what I needed to know?\u00a0 It was that my husband and I had a plan, and that we agreed on that plan, and that we were together on that plan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhether there was money in the bank or there wasn\u2019t money in the bank, I can\u2019t believe the difference in the security that I felt just having us unified in the direction that we were going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re talking about a man ultimately providing the kind of leadership that creates the comfort for the wife to say, \u201cHe\u2019s got it!\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cHe\u2019s being responsible.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cHe\u2019s not stepping down; he\u2019s stepping up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just finished a book called <em>Stepping Up<\/em> and, in the book, what I\u2019m talking about with men is calling them to step up and provide this kind of leadership of their wives.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t mean that they solve the problem.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t mean that they somehow wave a magic wand over the situation and, \u201cPoof!\u00a0 There\u2019s a solution.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt does mean that they say, \u201cSweetheart.\u00a0 I hear you.\u00a0 I know what you need.\u00a0 Here\u2019s what we\u2019re going to do,\u201d or \u201cLet\u2019s talk about what we\u2019re going to do,\u201d . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 . . . \u201cLet\u2019s come to an agreement of what our plan is.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 In this culture, where men are unemployed today \u2013 I talked to a man the other day who had been unemployed for a year and a half.\u00a0 For a man who has been unemployed for a year and a half, it is not good for his esteem as a man to just be floating.\u00a0 He needs to get a job somewhere, anywhere, doing something.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf he doesn\u2019t, his wife is going to \u2013 well, she\u2019s going to find that security gland that you were speaking of. . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 . . . and she\u2019s going to try to take over at some point, with her husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Are you saying deliver pizzas if that\u2019s what you can do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely!\u00a0 Flip a burger!\u00a0 I mean, I don\u2019t want to sound demeaning to men at this point, but if my family needed me to go to work in a fast food restaurant in order to provide, I hope I could choke down whatever the humiliation was of whatever position I used to have and do that to say, \u201cI will take charge.\u00a0 I will step up.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to be the man!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just think the man who stays out of work for long is not healthy.\u00a0 It\u2019s not good for his marriage.\u00a0 It\u2019s not good for him.\u00a0 It\u2019s not good for his family, either.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 You just said a minute ago, though, providing her the leadership.\u00a0 I think there you\u2019re talking about the whole provision thing.\u00a0 See, I think we limit providing to money.\u00a0 We just routinely think that.\u00a0 In that particular case, in our relationship, I needed Mark to provide that leadership.\u00a0 You\u2019re exactly right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt wasn\u2019t that he had to have all the answers.\u00a0 It\u2019s that we would come to them together oftentimes.\u00a0 It was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know how to solve this problem.\u201d\u00a0 You know, he didn\u2019t have to fix it.\u00a0 He didn\u2019t have to have all the answers, but to actually value us; unified, setting vision for our family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cWhat is our vision for debt?\u00a0 No debt, little debt \u2013 what is it?\u00a0 What are we going to do about it?\u00a0 What does this look like?\u201d\u00a0 And that was <em>providing <\/em>for our family when he did that.\u00a0 It\u2019s not always just about money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, if your family is going to live with less so it can ultimately have more, it\u2019s going to mean that a husband and a wife are singing off the same song sheet.\u00a0 They have to be together if they\u2019re going to downsize the schedule, downsize the funding, and downsize commitments.\u00a0 It also means, I think, that a couple needs to be in agreement with where they\u2019re headed, what their core values are, what they\u2019re about, and where they refuse to fail.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, here\u2019s the question \u2013 and I can\u2019t leave today without asking this \u2013 are we saying here that if you <em>can<\/em> live with less, you ought to, or are we saying that\u2019s a decision that families need to come to on their own?\u00a0 Because there are folks who are saying, \u201cWell, you know, we\u2019re doing OK.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re doing OK!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u201cWe could live with less.\u201d\u00a0 Are you saying we should if we can?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think the question that Jill is raising here is a healthy question for every family to consider.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because I think the nature of the consumption lifestyle we\u2019re surrounded by in America is to live with <em>more<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re constantly being fed that steady diet of \u201cmore is better\u201d \u2013 more money, more . . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 Activities.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes \u2013 on and on and on.\u00a0 Even the Christian community can fall into this, so I think regardless of whether you\u2019re struggling over this issue or not, it\u2019s just good to push back from the table a bit \u2013 much like a diet \u2013 and say, \u201cHow are we doing here?\u00a0 Are we winning or are we losing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 I agree.\u00a0 You know what?\u00a0 We did a workshop by the same title, \u201cLiving with Less So Your Family has More,\u201d at one of our Hearts at Home conferences.\u00a0 There was a woman who found herself in there and then thought, \u201cWhy did I sign up for this?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHer husband was a high-paid lawyer in Los Angeles; very well-to-do.\u00a0 \u201cWhy am I even here?\u201d\u00a0 She thought about going out and finding another workshop, but then she just felt like she was supposed to stay.\u00a0 By the end of the workshop, she said, \u201cI figured out why I\u2019m here.\u00a0 If we learn to live with less, we can give more.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jill:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was eye-opening that she had <em>not<\/em> thought about that before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Dennis, you didn\u2019t finish the rest of Ecclesiastes 2 when you were there, when Solomon is saying, \u201cEverything I saw that I wanted, I bought for myself.\u201d\u00a0 Doesn\u2019t he conclude that passage by saying in the end, it was empty?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, he said, \u201cThen I considered all that my hands had done, and the toil I had expended in doing it; and behold, all was vanity and striving after the wind.\u00a0 There was nothing to be gained under the sun.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wow!\u00a0 So the pursuit of consumerism and everything you want - and maybe you can afford to buy two flat panels and even one for the pool house . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you think that\u2019s where you\u2019re going to find contentment and life and joy, you can take the testimony of Solomon who says, \u201cIt\u2019s not there.\u00a0 I tried it and it is vanity.\u201d\u00a0 I think that\u2019s a part of how we\u2019ve got to readjust our thinking in a culture that\u2019s telling us that more stuff will bring us satisfaction and joy and meaning and purpose in life.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJill, you\u2019ve done us a service in the book that you\u2019ve written, <em>Living With Less So Your Family Has More<\/em>.\u00a0 You\u2019re helping us pull back and think, \u201cWhat does really matter?\u00a0 What are we anchoring our family to?\u00a0 Is it the pursuit of stuff, or is there something more significant and more important that we ought to be focusing on and being tethered to?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to encourage listeners; we\u2019ve got copies of Jill Savage\u2019s book, <em>Living With Less So Your Family Has More.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>You can go to our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 It\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com; that\u2019s the website, FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Or call toll-free; 1-800-FLTODAY is the number.\u00a0 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-F as in \u201cfamily,\u201d L as in \u201clife,\u201d and then the word \u201ctoday.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe can let you know how you can get a copy of Jill Savage\u2019s book, <em>Living With Less So Your Family Has More.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, I want to say a word of thanks to those of you who, as you have made adjustments to your family budget, have been able to find a way to support the ministry of FamilyLife.\u00a0 Some of you do it each month as a \u201cLegacy Partner.\u201d\u00a0 Some of you make a donation from time to time as you are able to do that.\u00a0 Whichever it is you do, we appreciate your support.\u00a0 It means a lot to us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re listener supported and it\u2019s those funds that make it possible to cover the production and syndication costs associated with <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>This month, if you can help with a donation, we\u2019d like to send you a copy of Dennis Rainey\u2019s new book <em>Stepping Up:<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>A Call to Courageous Manhood.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>There\u2019s been a lot of interest in this book, especially with the new movie <em>Courageous<\/em> coming out next week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, I know there are some guys getting together to go through this book after they go see the movie in a men\u2019s small group setting.\u00a0 You may want to consider doing something like that as well.\u00a0 If you\u2019re interested in a copy of Dennis\u2019s book, <em>Stepping Up, <\/em>you can request it when you make a donation this month.\u00a0\u00a0 Simply type the word \u201cSTEP\u201d into the key code box on the online donation form when you make your donation online, or call 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 You can make your donation over the phone and just ask for Dennis\u2019s book <em>Stepping Up.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>We\u2019re happy to send it to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe appreciate your partnership with us here in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we\u2019re going to talk more about how families can reorder their priorities, get their finances in order, and help their children understand how to prioritize money and finances as well.\u00a0 We\u2019ll talk about that tomorrow; hope you can join us!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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