{"id":302357,"date":"2011-09-06T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2011-09-06T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/walking-in-the-dark\/"},"modified":"2011-09-06T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2011-09-06T15:00:00","slug":"walking-in-the-dark","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/walking-in-the-dark\/","title":{"rendered":"Walking in the Dark"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Christian recording artist Michael O&#8217;Brien and his wife, Heidi, talk openly with Dennis Rainey about the problems that challenged and often hurt their marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-09-06.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"26.24M","filesize_raw":"27519524","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2885],"tags":[4213,2877],"podcast_series":[7535],"cwp_profile":[9082],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302357","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-good-marriages-made-better","tag-love","tag-marriage","podcast_series-something-about-us","cwp_profile-michael-and-heidi-obrien","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302357\/walking-in-the-dark","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302357\/walking-in-the-dark","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"FJn1Gj6Eaw\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/walking-in-the-dark\/\">Walking in the Dark<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/walking-in-the-dark\/embed\/#?secret=FJn1Gj6Eaw\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Walking in the Dark&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"FJn1Gj6Eaw\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-09-06.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-09-06.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Seven years ago, Michael and Heidi O\u2019Brien had been going through a winter season in their marriage \u2013 a difficult time \u2013 but the cold was beginning to thaw.\u00a0 Springtime was on the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 We were getting up early in the morning and reading <em>My Utmost for His Highest.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>God was just moving so powerfully in his life and he had had a bad dream, and it just kind of all came out.\u00a0 He said, \u201cI\u2019ve got to tell you, you\u2019ve got to get rid of that <em>Victoria\u2019s Secret<\/em> magazine.\u00a0 I\u2019ve got to tell you what I\u2019ve been struggling with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>(song)<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>There a hole in my heart tonight.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>And I\u2019m missing again that beautiful smile.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>I\u2019m just wondering if you\u2019re all right because I\u2019m not. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>No, I\u2019m not.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 But, this is the one thing I\u2019ve always said about Michael and me - when we are in trouble, we <em>run<\/em> to get help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>An empty hotel room I\u2019ve got some regrets. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Feels like I\u2019m wasting away.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was just like, \u201cOkay, we need help getting through this.\u00a0 We need people who have wisdom, who can surround us and help bring us through this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s you that keeps me going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s you that keeps me going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s you that keeps me weathering storms.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We\u2019ll hear from Michael and Heidi O\u2019Brien today about the help they got for their marriage, and how winter became spring.\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition.\u00a0 You know, I listen to that song and I think there is a difference between taking your music seriously and just kind of fiddling around with it.\u00a0 I actually did play guitar for a while at Crystal\u2019s Pizza at 21<sup>st<\/sup> and Sheridan in Tulsa.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I didn\u2019t know that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, I used to \u2013 on Saturday nights \u2013 go over.\u00a0 I think I made like $20, and I would sing Jim Croce songs and John Denver and. . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jim who?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You don\u2019t remember Jim Croce?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m sorry.\u00a0 Not on my radar screen at this moment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yes, these were big hits in the \u201870s and beyond.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have a real talent in the studio today, don\u2019t we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have a legitimate musician who is in the studio.\u00a0 I don\u2019t think I could. . . I was just playing with it, but we\u2019ve got the real guy here with us today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Michael and Heidi O\u2019Brien join us on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Welcome back to the broadcast.\u00a0 I\u2019m amazed after what we\u2019ve talked about this week that you guys came back, but you did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael is a recording artist.\u00a0 He used to be the lead singer of <em>Newsong<\/em>, but made a heroic choice on March 19, 2006.\u00a0 I want to get to that heroic choice, but to do that I want to back up seven years, and take this storybook marriage that started out with a love song that would cause any young lady to melt into a pool of butter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean the guy has got more lines than an Alaskan prowler. I\u2019m telling you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He was laying it out earlier on the broadcast. . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut your marriage was in trouble, right Heidi?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 How serious of trouble?\u00a0 Was divorce an option?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Honestly, I would be the type that would throw around the \u201cd\u201d word as a threat, just to try, out of desperation, to get what I wanted from my husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Were you doing that in year one?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, it wasn\u2019t until years into it.\u00a0 But we did have really big, blowout fights in year one \u2013 unhealthy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You guys had been a part of this music group that traveled around on a bus, <em>The Heritage Singers<\/em>.\u00a0 You did that, got married while you were in the group.\u00a0 You left that group after you\u2019d been in it for, what, a year or two years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was in it a year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Then, did you decide, \u201cI want to be a solo singer\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I did.\u00a0 When I look back now, it was not probably the wisest decision, because what I wanted and what she wanted were two different things.\u00a0 She had dreamed (Heidi) that we would be in ministry together, and I was always a loner.\u00a0 I wanted to be a loner.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You guys were both in a music group, so she sings, too, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 That would make sense.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So maybe doing a husband and wife duet thing \u2013 that could have worked, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 It caused a lot of pain and a lot of friction in our marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So what were most of your fights about?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, that was the big one.\u00a0 I always say I was like Lucy Ricardo.\u00a0 \u201cRicky, let me in your show!\u201d\u00a0 You know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI did.\u00a0 I had that vision of, sort of, having babies who would all be musical and \u201cwe\u2019re just going to travel around on a bus and just be this traveling family.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bill and Gloria Gaither, right?\u00a0 That\u2019s the whole idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, I mean. . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was thinking of the Von Trapp family - kind of an Irish family singing together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The O\u2019Brien \u2013 instead of the Von Trapps, the O\u2019Brien Family Singers?\u00a0 That could have worked, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019m an okay singer, but I\u2019m not a great singer.\u00a0 I\u2019m okay.\u00a0 When you move to Nashville, that\u2019s a real humbling experience because in any given church, people can just sing circles around you.\u00a0 I mean, there\u2019s so much talent!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just kind of did not have the talent to make that work, and so I just tried to fit in however I could, but in my heart I was just holding onto bitterness, bitterness, bitterness.\u00a0 Then God just started saying, \u201cHello!\u00a0 You have so many other things.\u00a0 Did I create you so narrow that if you don\u2019t do this, you\u2019re never going to have joy in your life?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Hmmm.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, when I finally let go of that, what freedom, you know?\u00a0 That was like killing me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because every time he went out, I loved him and was excited about everything that was going on, but inside it was just like, \u201cThat is so unfair.\u00a0 People are clapping for you, saying you\u2019re great, and you\u2019re eating all of this good food while I\u2019m home eating peanut butter and jelly and doing dirty diapers.\u00a0 Nobody cares about what I do.\u00a0 I\u2019m not getting any pats on the back.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just looked at his life, and was thinking, \u201cThis really stinks.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, added to that, here\u2019s somebody who\u2019s up front where people are applauding and just because he\u2019s good with an instrument or two and can connect with the audience around a song, doesn\u2019t mean he\u2019s good as a husband, as a father, and as a family man.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn essence, you were failing in that regard, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Miserably.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 When did it finally dawn on you that you really weren\u2019t being the man God created you to be in the most important relationship a man has in this lifetime, with his wife and with his children?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was during the dark ages (that\u2019s what we call them) probably five or six years ago.\u00a0 Heidi was dealing with some things in her own life, and I had this battle looking at women and fantasizing and all of these things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were exposed to pornography as a child?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was six years old, and then more of the videos when I was twelve.\u00a0 There was a lot of pain there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did you ever tell Heidi you had seen this stuff?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 She only knew about my drugs and alcohol.\u00a0 She had asked me on many different occasions if I struggled with this and I told her, \u201cAbsolutely not.\u201d\u00a0 She asked if I struggled with looking at other women, and I just didn\u2019t want to be completely honest.\u00a0 I just didn\u2019t know how she would handle that and basically I was scared.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t want . . . I thought that was. . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had Christian men even say to me, \u201cYou know, Michael, that\u2019s just what guys go through.\u00a0 They\u2019re very visual.\u00a0 That\u2019s a normal thing.\u201d\u00a0 But I knew it wasn\u2019t.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t.\u00a0 It\u2019s not what Jesus did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Michael, a recording artist, pretty big ego, pretty tough to admit, pretty tough to come clean, to someone else outside the marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Extremely.\u00a0 I realized when I confessed this to her and she literally broke down and cried and I just sat there.\u00a0 I was realizing that my sin was affecting not only me, but the one I love the most.\u00a0 It was later on when \u2013 and I thank God for this book \u2013 an amazing book just changed my life in this particular world:\u00a0 <em>Every Man\u2019s Battle<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember just finally having a strategic way to fight.\u00a0 The bouncing of the eyes \u2013 I started to put this into practice.\u00a0 At first, Heidi was a bit offended that I was doing this.\u00a0 She was asking, \u201cWhy?\u00a0 Am I not good enough for you?\u201d\u00a0 But over time she realized that every time I did it, I was championing our marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, if we were watching something on TV, he might put his hand up or turn away if there was some image that was going to be stirring for him.\u00a0 In a woman\u2019s brain, it\u2019s just so hard to connect with that.\u00a0 At first, I was kind of thinking, \u201cWow!\u00a0 You\u2019re really weak.\u00a0 What\u2019s your problem?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, then, as we walked through it, and once again, read more books and got more counsel. . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Really, God began to bless me in my body.\u00a0 He began to bless the marriage bed.\u00a0 He began to bless our conversation.\u00a0 Another book that helped me verbally, in talking to Heidi, was <em>The Five Love Languages<\/em>.\u00a0 I began to realize what her love language was and I remember so many times I would think these things.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t like I was making it up.\u00a0 It was things I thought, but I just never said it out loud. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I would say, \u201cThat meal was amazing,\u201d or \u201cWow, you look beautiful today.\u201d\u00a0 At first, I think even then she didn\u2019t know if it was coming from my heart or not, but then she really understood what I was doing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So this was. . . Was that morning that you confessed to her the beginning of the dark period, do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 How long were you in it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 A good five years.\u00a0 A good five years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because, you know, just undealt with sin in your life \u2013 it accumulates and it wreaks havoc.\u00a0 I ended up with mental illness.\u00a0 I was diagnosed with everything under the sun.\u00a0 It started off with anxiety disorder, then panic disorder, then depression, then manic depression.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI, ultimately, at one point after the birth of my fourth child, ended up in a psychiatric clinic for a nice little stay which was no fun.\u00a0 I was suicidal.\u00a0 I was just absolutely a mess.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m in <em>Newsong <\/em>at this time, by the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re on the road?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I had joined <em>Newsong<\/em> and I was doing the altar calls.\u00a0 People were coming forward, giving their life to Christ, and my family was falling apart at home.\u00a0 It was horrible.\u00a0 It was the dark ages for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Were you writing music during this time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was.\u00a0 In fact, I was writing records.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Was any of what you were living coming out?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 It was . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Were you keeping it all kind of hidden from everyone except just what the two of you knew?\u00a0 I mean there had to be friends who knew what was going on, right?\u00a0 Did the guys in the band know what was going on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not all of the guys in the band.\u00a0 Maybe one \u2013 one or two.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Were you afraid, \u201cIf this leaks out, my career is over\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I wasn\u2019t so much afraid of that as much as I was concerned for my wife.\u00a0 I loved her.\u00a0 I wanted her to be happy.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I knew God had a better way.\u00a0 So I began to do what God was calling me to do and He dealt with the purity issue and the communicating with Heidi.\u00a0 God restored that love that had so far gone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I wonder how many listeners would describe where they are today as the dark ages?\u00a0 They think, \u201cI don\u2019t know if our marriage can make it.\u00a0 We\u2019ve gone to our church and gotten counsel like Michael got from a pastor who said, \u2018Divorce can be liberating\u2019.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr maybe they just haven\u2019t told anybody because they\u2019re afraid or ashamed.\u00a0 If a couple is in that situation, how would you counsel them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think they have to take a page from what Michael and Heidi have done.\u00a0 Go to the church.\u00a0 We\u2019re talking about a church that will put you together with a counselor who will tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear \u2013 biblically-anchored counsel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecondly, also take a page from their commitment to one another.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs you were sharing your story, I don\u2019t know what I expected, but I thought the \u201cdark ages\u201d would last for 30, 60, maybe 90 days \u2013 that there had just been a brief period.\u00a0 But you all went through a long, dark shadow; a long valley.\u00a0 You didn\u2019t quit.\u00a0 You hung in there with each other, even in the midst of days when you continued to hurt each other.\u00a0 You remained committed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, I just come back to the basis of what the Bible teaches about love.\u00a0 Love isn\u2019t a feeling.\u00a0 Love\u2019s a commitment.\u00a0 Love\u2019s a covenant.\u00a0 It\u2019s a promise.\u00a0 At the essence of the promise is a person saying to another person, \u201cMy integrity is good.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to do what I said I would do when I said, \u2018I do.\u2019\u00a0 I still do, and I\u2019m going to remain committed to you even though right now this doesn\u2019t feel very good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe reason this is so tough in this culture is that there are so many other voices in the culture \u2013 even in the Christian culture and community \u2013 that are telling you to bail out, as they told Heidi and Michael to do here.\u00a0 But there are also voices that are luring toward sin \u2013 adultery, fantasies, denial of where you are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat shouldn\u2019t be an option for a Christian.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, if somebody today had chest pains, they would go to the emergency room and say, \u201cI have chest pains.\u00a0 I wonder if there\u2019s something wrong.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Somebody has marriage pains, and they say, \u201cWell, I\u2019m not going to tell anybody.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to keep it to myself.\u00a0 We\u2019ll try and work this out.\u00a0 I hope I can take care of it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve got to find help!\u00a0 Whether it\u2019s going to our website FamilyLifeToday.com; whether it\u2019s coming to one of our Weekend to Remember\u00ae conferences; . . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 Getting a book. . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Getting resources; getting help from people.\u00a0 You\u2019ve <em>got to <\/em>address the issue so that you can get better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re not going to get it done on your own.\u00a0 And I just want to say a word to, perhaps, people who aren\u2019t in their own \u201cdark ages.\u201d\u00a0 They\u2019re not going through a valley of any kind, but they know, perhaps, a Christian celebrity.\u00a0 He may be a pastor at their church; he or she may be a songwriter, singer, entertainer, author, communicator; someone who is famous because of God\u2019s favor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBe careful about making the assumption that because they\u2019re good at what they do they are therefore good at everything else.\u00a0 Step into their lives and express concern if you see their lives beginning to perhaps move toward destructive behavior.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m thinking, Bob, of our interview that we did with the sportscaster Pat Summerall and how he told of his alcoholism, womanizing, and all of his destructive behavior, and yet no one, no one, ever called him to account.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 They knew what was going on, and they never called him on it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly!\u00a0 Now, he wasn\u2019t surrounded by Christians, but I have to believe there were some Christians in the crowd.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, there was a group that finally did get together and had an intervention and that\u2019s what finally turned his life in the right direction.\u00a0 He went to the Betty Ford Clinic and that\u2019s where he read the Bible and where he came to faith and got sober and got the help he needed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, it may be that our listeners have never heard that conversation with Pat Summerall.\u00a0 I\u2019ve asked our team to set up a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com if you\u2019d like to listen to those interviews.\u00a0 Just go to FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 There\u2019s a link there for the Pat Summerall interviews and you can listen to those.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I want to remind our listeners, too, that Michael and Heidi O\u2019Brien are going to be joining us in February on our second \u201cLove Like You Mean It\u201d marriage cruise.\u00a0 We\u2019re leaving from Miami and heading out into the Caribbean Valentine\u2019s week.\u00a0 We leave on Monday morning, February 13<sup>th<\/sup>; get back on Friday, the 17<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Along with Michael and Heidi O\u2019Brien, Sanctus Real is going to be with us; Matthew West; the Annie Moses Band; Darlene McCoy; Paul Overstreet.\u00a0 Of course, Dennis and Barbara are going to be speaking and I\u2019m going to be speaking.\u00a0 Voddie Baucham is going to be onboard and Gary Thomas, the author who wrote <em>Sacred Marriage<\/em> is going to be with us as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was talking to our team earlier this week and I asked them about how many cabins are still available.\u00a0 They said that we\u2019re about 70% of the boat sold.\u00a0 I said, \u201cWell, before they\u2019re all gone, could we maybe do special for <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAfter we talked about it for a while, they agreed that this week, and this week only, <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners can sign up to join us on the \u201cLove Like You Mean It\u201d cruise, Valentine\u2019s Week 2012.\u00a0 If you pay for your registration, your spouse comes along free.\u00a0 They said the offer\u2019s only good <em>this <\/em>week and the folks have to mention that they\u2019re <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners in order to take advantage of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if you want to go to our website FamilyLifeToday.com, there\u2019s a link there to the \u201cLove Like You Mean It\u201d page.\u00a0 It will give you all the information about the cruise:\u00a0 dates, locations, everything.\u00a0 Or you can call for more information.\u00a0 1-800-FLTODAY is the number to call.\u00a0 Just make sure when you\u2019re ready to register - and you have to register this week to take advantage of the special offer - make sure to identify yourself as a <em>FamilyLifeToday <\/em>listener so that when you register and pay for yourself, your spouse comes at no cost.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information or give us a call \u2013 1-800-F as in \u201cfamily,\u201d L as in \u201clife,\u201d and then the word \u201ctoday.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to make sure that we take a minute here and thank those of you who from time to time will get in touch with us and make a donation to help support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 In fact we\u2019ve got some listeners who we refer to as \u201clegacy partners.\u201d\u00a0 These are folks who make a donation to support the ministry on a monthly basis.\u00a0 Your support is so valuable, so much appreciated.\u00a0 Thanks for standing with us here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know there are others of you who from time to time will call or will go online and make a donation as you are able to do that.\u00a0 We appreciate you as well.\u00a0 Your support is what helps to cover the cost of producing and syndicating this daily radio program, keeping it on the air on your local station and on our network of stations all across the country, and of course on the internet throughout the world.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe appreciate your partnership with us.\u00a0 This week, if you\u2019re able to help with a donation, we\u2019d like to say \u201cthank you\u201d by sending you a book by Dennis and Barbara Rainey about praying together as a couple.\u00a0 One of the things that a lot of couples desire to do, but for whatever reason it\u2019s difficult and it\u2019s awkward, Dennis and Barbara have addressed in their book <em>Two Hearts Praying as One<\/em>.\u00a0 It\u2019s our gift to you this week when you support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>with a donation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMake your donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com and be sure to type the word \u201cHEARTS\u201d in the key code box on the online donation form so that we know to send you a copy of the book on praying together as a couple, or call 1-800-FLTODAY and make a donation over the phone.\u00a0 Just ask for the book on prayer and, again, we\u2019ll get it out to you.\u00a0 We are grateful to you for your standing with us and your support of the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, before we wrap things up today, we\u2019ve asked Michael O\u2019Brien if he would sing a song from his CD <em>Something about Us.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>It\u2019s a song he wrote for his wife.\u00a0 In fact the title of the song is her name.\u00a0 It\u2019s \u201cSandra Heidi Anne.\u201d\u00a0 Here is Michael O\u2019Brien:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u201cSandra Heidi Anne,<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Sixteen years, still holding hands<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Every day\u2019s a sweet romance<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Every day\u2019s a new adventure<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>This extraordinary love can be extremely complicated<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>But it\u2019s more than enough to sustain me, contain me<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Sandra Heidi Anne,<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>We\u2019re strollin\u2019 down love\u2019s boulevard<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>I tip my hat to my wishin\u2019 star<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>On this sentimental evening<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>I require no invitations for quiet walks and rendezvous<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>My only expectation \u2013 please forgive me \u2013 is that you\u2019re with me<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>I possess what others dream about<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>If you should ever doubt it\u2019s true<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>It\u2019s undeniable, indefinable, incomprehensible<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Sandra Heidi Anne,<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>I\u2019m the only man for you<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Can\u2019t imagine what I\u2019d do if you weren\u2019t in the picture<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>To have and to hold you is all that I desire<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>And in case I haven\u2019t told you, you\u2019re amazing, so amazing<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Sandra Heidi Anne,<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Sandra Heidi Anne\u201d<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t*Song: Keeps Me Going\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tArtist: Michael O\u2019Brien\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlbum: Something About Us, (c)2007 Miracle Productions\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSong: Sandra Heidi Anne\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tArtist: Michael O\u2019Brien\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlbum: Something About Us, (c)2007 Miracle Productions\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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recording artist Michael O'Brien and his wife, Heidi, talk openly with Dennis Rainey about the problems that challenged and often hurt their marriage.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-09-06.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Seven years ago, Michael and Heidi O\u2019Brien had been going through a winter season in their marriage \u2013 a difficult time \u2013 but the cold was beginning to thaw.\u00a0 Springtime was on the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 We were getting up early in the morning and reading <em>My Utmost for His Highest.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>God was just moving so powerfully in his life and he had had a bad dream, and it just kind of all came out.\u00a0 He said, \u201cI\u2019ve got to tell you, you\u2019ve got to get rid of that <em>Victoria\u2019s Secret<\/em> magazine.\u00a0 I\u2019ve got to tell you what I\u2019ve been struggling with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>(song)<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>There a hole in my heart tonight.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>And I\u2019m missing again that beautiful smile.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>I\u2019m just wondering if you\u2019re all right because I\u2019m not. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>No, I\u2019m not.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 But, this is the one thing I\u2019ve always said about Michael and me - when we are in trouble, we <em>run<\/em> to get help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>An empty hotel room I\u2019ve got some regrets. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Feels like I\u2019m wasting away.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was just like, \u201cOkay, we need help getting through this.\u00a0 We need people who have wisdom, who can surround us and help bring us through this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s you that keeps me going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s you that keeps me going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s you that keeps me weathering storms.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We\u2019ll hear from Michael and Heidi O\u2019Brien today about the help they got for their marriage, and how winter became spring.\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition.\u00a0 You know, I listen to that song and I think there is a difference between taking your music seriously and just kind of fiddling around with it.\u00a0 I actually did play guitar for a while at Crystal\u2019s Pizza at 21<sup>st<\/sup> and Sheridan in Tulsa.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I didn\u2019t know that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, I used to \u2013 on Saturday nights \u2013 go over.\u00a0 I think I made like $20, and I would sing Jim Croce songs and John Denver and. . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Jim who?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You don\u2019t remember Jim Croce?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m sorry.\u00a0 Not on my radar screen at this moment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yes, these were big hits in the \u201870s and beyond.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have a real talent in the studio today, don\u2019t we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have a legitimate musician who is in the studio.\u00a0 I don\u2019t think I could. . . I was just playing with it, but we\u2019ve got the real guy here with us today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Michael and Heidi O\u2019Brien join us on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Welcome back to the broadcast.\u00a0 I\u2019m amazed after what we\u2019ve talked about this week that you guys came back, but you did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael is a recording artist.\u00a0 He used to be the lead singer of <em>Newsong<\/em>, but made a heroic choice on March 19, 2006.\u00a0 I want to get to that heroic choice, but to do that I want to back up seven years, and take this storybook marriage that started out with a love song that would cause any young lady to melt into a pool of butter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean the guy has got more lines than an Alaskan prowler. I\u2019m telling you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He was laying it out earlier on the broadcast. . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut your marriage was in trouble, right Heidi?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 How serious of trouble?\u00a0 Was divorce an option?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Honestly, I would be the type that would throw around the \u201cd\u201d word as a threat, just to try, out of desperation, to get what I wanted from my husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Were you doing that in year one?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, it wasn\u2019t until years into it.\u00a0 But we did have really big, blowout fights in year one \u2013 unhealthy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You guys had been a part of this music group that traveled around on a bus, <em>The Heritage Singers<\/em>.\u00a0 You did that, got married while you were in the group.\u00a0 You left that group after you\u2019d been in it for, what, a year or two years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was in it a year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Then, did you decide, \u201cI want to be a solo singer\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I did.\u00a0 When I look back now, it was not probably the wisest decision, because what I wanted and what she wanted were two different things.\u00a0 She had dreamed (Heidi) that we would be in ministry together, and I was always a loner.\u00a0 I wanted to be a loner.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You guys were both in a music group, so she sings, too, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 That would make sense.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So maybe doing a husband and wife duet thing \u2013 that could have worked, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 It caused a lot of pain and a lot of friction in our marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 So what were most of your fights about?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, that was the big one.\u00a0 I always say I was like Lucy Ricardo.\u00a0 \u201cRicky, let me in your show!\u201d\u00a0 You know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(Laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI did.\u00a0 I had that vision of, sort of, having babies who would all be musical and \u201cwe\u2019re just going to travel around on a bus and just be this traveling family.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bill and Gloria Gaither, right?\u00a0 That\u2019s the whole idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, I mean. . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was thinking of the Von Trapp family - kind of an Irish family singing together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The O\u2019Brien \u2013 instead of the Von Trapps, the O\u2019Brien Family Singers?\u00a0 That could have worked, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019m an okay singer, but I\u2019m not a great singer.\u00a0 I\u2019m okay.\u00a0 When you move to Nashville, that\u2019s a real humbling experience because in any given church, people can just sing circles around you.\u00a0 I mean, there\u2019s so much talent!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just kind of did not have the talent to make that work, and so I just tried to fit in however I could, but in my heart I was just holding onto bitterness, bitterness, bitterness.\u00a0 Then God just started saying, \u201cHello!\u00a0 You have so many other things.\u00a0 Did I create you so narrow that if you don\u2019t do this, you\u2019re never going to have joy in your life?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Hmmm.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, when I finally let go of that, what freedom, you know?\u00a0 That was like killing me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because every time he went out, I loved him and was excited about everything that was going on, but inside it was just like, \u201cThat is so unfair.\u00a0 People are clapping for you, saying you\u2019re great, and you\u2019re eating all of this good food while I\u2019m home eating peanut butter and jelly and doing dirty diapers.\u00a0 Nobody cares about what I do.\u00a0 I\u2019m not getting any pats on the back.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just looked at his life, and was thinking, \u201cThis really stinks.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, added to that, here\u2019s somebody who\u2019s up front where people are applauding and just because he\u2019s good with an instrument or two and can connect with the audience around a song, doesn\u2019t mean he\u2019s good as a husband, as a father, and as a family man.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn essence, you were failing in that regard, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Miserably.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 When did it finally dawn on you that you really weren\u2019t being the man God created you to be in the most important relationship a man has in this lifetime, with his wife and with his children?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was during the dark ages (that\u2019s what we call them) probably five or six years ago.\u00a0 Heidi was dealing with some things in her own life, and I had this battle looking at women and fantasizing and all of these things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You were exposed to pornography as a child?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was six years old, and then more of the videos when I was twelve.\u00a0 There was a lot of pain there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did you ever tell Heidi you had seen this stuff?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 She only knew about my drugs and alcohol.\u00a0 She had asked me on many different occasions if I struggled with this and I told her, \u201cAbsolutely not.\u201d\u00a0 She asked if I struggled with looking at other women, and I just didn\u2019t want to be completely honest.\u00a0 I just didn\u2019t know how she would handle that and basically I was scared.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t want . . . I thought that was. . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had Christian men even say to me, \u201cYou know, Michael, that\u2019s just what guys go through.\u00a0 They\u2019re very visual.\u00a0 That\u2019s a normal thing.\u201d\u00a0 But I knew it wasn\u2019t.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t.\u00a0 It\u2019s not what Jesus did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Michael, a recording artist, pretty big ego, pretty tough to admit, pretty tough to come clean, to someone else outside the marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Extremely.\u00a0 I realized when I confessed this to her and she literally broke down and cried and I just sat there.\u00a0 I was realizing that my sin was affecting not only me, but the one I love the most.\u00a0 It was later on when \u2013 and I thank God for this book \u2013 an amazing book just changed my life in this particular world:\u00a0 <em>Every Man\u2019s Battle<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember just finally having a strategic way to fight.\u00a0 The bouncing of the eyes \u2013 I started to put this into practice.\u00a0 At first, Heidi was a bit offended that I was doing this.\u00a0 She was asking, \u201cWhy?\u00a0 Am I not good enough for you?\u201d\u00a0 But over time she realized that every time I did it, I was championing our marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, if we were watching something on TV, he might put his hand up or turn away if there was some image that was going to be stirring for him.\u00a0 In a woman\u2019s brain, it\u2019s just so hard to connect with that.\u00a0 At first, I was kind of thinking, \u201cWow!\u00a0 You\u2019re really weak.\u00a0 What\u2019s your problem?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, then, as we walked through it, and once again, read more books and got more counsel. . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Really, God began to bless me in my body.\u00a0 He began to bless the marriage bed.\u00a0 He began to bless our conversation.\u00a0 Another book that helped me verbally, in talking to Heidi, was <em>The Five Love Languages<\/em>.\u00a0 I began to realize what her love language was and I remember so many times I would think these things.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t like I was making it up.\u00a0 It was things I thought, but I just never said it out loud. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I would say, \u201cThat meal was amazing,\u201d or \u201cWow, you look beautiful today.\u201d\u00a0 At first, I think even then she didn\u2019t know if it was coming from my heart or not, but then she really understood what I was doing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So this was. . . Was that morning that you confessed to her the beginning of the dark period, do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 How long were you in it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 A good five years.\u00a0 A good five years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heidi:<\/strong>\u00a0 Because, you know, just undealt with sin in your life \u2013 it accumulates and it wreaks havoc.\u00a0 I ended up with mental illness.\u00a0 I was diagnosed with everything under the sun.\u00a0 It started off with anxiety disorder, then panic disorder, then depression, then manic depression.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI, ultimately, at one point after the birth of my fourth child, ended up in a psychiatric clinic for a nice little stay which was no fun.\u00a0 I was suicidal.\u00a0 I was just absolutely a mess.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m in <em>Newsong <\/em>at this time, by the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re on the road?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I had joined <em>Newsong<\/em> and I was doing the altar calls.\u00a0 People were coming forward, giving their life to Christ, and my family was falling apart at home.\u00a0 It was horrible.\u00a0 It was the dark ages for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Were you writing music during this time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was.\u00a0 In fact, I was writing records.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Was any of what you were living coming out?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 It was . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Were you keeping it all kind of hidden from everyone except just what the two of you knew?\u00a0 I mean there had to be friends who knew what was going on, right?\u00a0 Did the guys in the band know what was going on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not all of the guys in the band.\u00a0 Maybe one \u2013 one or two.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Were you afraid, \u201cIf this leaks out, my career is over\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I wasn\u2019t so much afraid of that as much as I was concerned for my wife.\u00a0 I loved her.\u00a0 I wanted her to be happy.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michael:<\/strong>\u00a0 I knew God had a better way.\u00a0 So I began to do what God was calling me to do and He dealt with the purity issue and the communicating with Heidi.\u00a0 God restored that love that had so far gone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I wonder how many listeners would describe where they are today as the dark ages?\u00a0 They think, \u201cI don\u2019t know if our marriage can make it.\u00a0 We\u2019ve gone to our church and gotten counsel like Michael got from a pastor who said, \u2018Divorce can be liberating\u2019.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr maybe they just haven\u2019t told anybody because they\u2019re afraid or ashamed.\u00a0 If a couple is in that situation, how would you counsel them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think they have to take a page from what Michael and Heidi have done.\u00a0 Go to the church.\u00a0 We\u2019re talking about a church that will put you together with a counselor who will tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear \u2013 biblically-anchored counsel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecondly, also take a page from their commitment to one another.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs you were sharing your story, I don\u2019t know what I expected, but I thought the \u201cdark ages\u201d would last for 30, 60, maybe 90 days \u2013 that there had just been a brief period.\u00a0 But you all went through a long, dark shadow; a long valley.\u00a0 You didn\u2019t quit.\u00a0 You hung in there with each other, even in the midst of days when you continued to hurt each other.\u00a0 You remained committed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, I just come back to the basis of what the Bible teaches about love.\u00a0 Love isn\u2019t a feeling.\u00a0 Love\u2019s a commitment.\u00a0 Love\u2019s a covenant.\u00a0 It\u2019s a promise.\u00a0 At the essence of the promise is a person saying to another person, \u201cMy integrity is good.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to do what I said I would do when I said, \u2018I do.\u2019\u00a0 I still do, and I\u2019m going to remain committed to you even though right now this doesn\u2019t feel very good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe reason this is so tough in this culture is that there are so many other voices in the culture \u2013 even in the Christian culture and community \u2013 that are telling you to bail out, as they told Heidi and Michael to do here.\u00a0 But there are also voices that are luring toward sin \u2013 adultery, fantasies, denial of where you are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat shouldn\u2019t be an option for a Christian.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, if somebody today had chest pains, they would go to the emergency room and say, \u201cI have chest pains.\u00a0 I wonder if there\u2019s something wrong.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Somebody has marriage pains, and they say, \u201cWell, I\u2019m not going to tell anybody.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to keep it to myself.\u00a0 We\u2019ll try and work this out.\u00a0 I hope I can take care of it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve got to find help!\u00a0 Whether it\u2019s going to our website FamilyLifeToday.com; whether it\u2019s coming to one of our Weekend to Remember\u00ae conferences; . . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 Getting a book. . . \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Getting resources; getting help from people.\u00a0 You\u2019ve <em>got to <\/em>address the issue so that you can get better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re not going to get it done on your own.\u00a0 And I just want to say a word to, perhaps, people who aren\u2019t in their own \u201cdark ages.\u201d\u00a0 They\u2019re not going through a valley of any kind, but they know, perhaps, a Christian celebrity.\u00a0 He may be a pastor at their church; he or she may be a songwriter, singer, entertainer, author, communicator; someone who is famous because of God\u2019s favor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBe careful about making the assumption that because they\u2019re good at what they do they are therefore good at everything else.\u00a0 Step into their lives and express concern if you see their lives beginning to perhaps move toward destructive behavior.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m thinking, Bob, of our interview that we did with the sportscaster Pat Summerall and how he told of his alcoholism, womanizing, and all of his destructive behavior, and yet no one, no one, ever called him to account.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 They knew what was going on, and they never called him on it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly!\u00a0 Now, he wasn\u2019t surrounded by Christians, but I have to believe there were some Christians in the crowd.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, there was a group that finally did get together and had an intervention and that\u2019s what finally turned his life in the right direction.\u00a0 He went to the Betty Ford Clinic and that\u2019s where he read the Bible and where he came to faith and got sober and got the help he needed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, it may be that our listeners have never heard that conversation with Pat Summerall.\u00a0 I\u2019ve asked our team to set up a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com if you\u2019d like to listen to those interviews.\u00a0 Just go to FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 There\u2019s a link there for the Pat Summerall interviews and you can listen to those.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I want to remind our listeners, too, that Michael and Heidi O\u2019Brien are going to be joining us in February on our second \u201cLove Like You Mean It\u201d marriage cruise.\u00a0 We\u2019re leaving from Miami and heading out into the Caribbean Valentine\u2019s week.\u00a0 We leave on Monday morning, February 13<sup>th<\/sup>; get back on Friday, the 17<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Along with Michael and Heidi O\u2019Brien, Sanctus Real is going to be with us; Matthew West; the Annie Moses Band; Darlene McCoy; Paul Overstreet.\u00a0 Of course, Dennis and Barbara are going to be speaking and I\u2019m going to be speaking.\u00a0 Voddie Baucham is going to be onboard and Gary Thomas, the author who wrote <em>Sacred Marriage<\/em> is going to be with us as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was talking to our team earlier this week and I asked them about how many cabins are still available.\u00a0 They said that we\u2019re about 70% of the boat sold.\u00a0 I said, \u201cWell, before they\u2019re all gone, could we maybe do special for <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAfter we talked about it for a while, they agreed that this week, and this week only, <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners can sign up to join us on the \u201cLove Like You Mean It\u201d cruise, Valentine\u2019s Week 2012.\u00a0 If you pay for your registration, your spouse comes along free.\u00a0 They said the offer\u2019s only good <em>this <\/em>week and the folks have to mention that they\u2019re <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners in order to take advantage of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, if you want to go to our website FamilyLifeToday.com, there\u2019s a link there to the \u201cLove Like You Mean It\u201d page.\u00a0 It will give you all the information about the cruise:\u00a0 dates, locations, everything.\u00a0 Or you can call for more information.\u00a0 1-800-FLTODAY is the number to call.\u00a0 Just make sure when you\u2019re ready to register - and you have to register this week to take advantage of the special offer - make sure to identify yourself as a <em>FamilyLifeToday <\/em>listener so that when you register and pay for yourself, your spouse comes at no cost.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information or give us a call \u2013 1-800-F as in \u201cfamily,\u201d L as in \u201clife,\u201d and then the word \u201ctoday.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to make sure that we take a minute here and thank those of you who from time to time will get in touch with us and make a donation to help support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 In fact we\u2019ve got some listeners who we refer to as \u201clegacy partners.\u201d\u00a0 These are folks who make a donation to support the ministry on a monthly basis.\u00a0 Your support is so valuable, so much appreciated.\u00a0 Thanks for standing with us here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know there are others of you who from time to time will call or will go online and make a donation as you are able to do that.\u00a0 We appreciate you as well.\u00a0 Your support is what helps to cover the cost of producing and syndicating this daily radio program, keeping it on the air on your local station and on our network of stations all across the country, and of course on the internet throughout the world.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe appreciate your partnership with us.\u00a0 This week, if you\u2019re able to help with a donation, we\u2019d like to say \u201cthank you\u201d by sending you a book by Dennis and Barbara Rainey about praying together as a couple.\u00a0 One of the things that a lot of couples desire to do, but for whatever reason it\u2019s difficult and it\u2019s awkward, Dennis and Barbara have addressed in their book <em>Two Hearts Praying as One<\/em>.\u00a0 It\u2019s our gift to you this week when you support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>with a donation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMake your donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com and be sure to type the word \u201cHEARTS\u201d in the key code box on the online donation form so that we know to send you a copy of the book on praying together as a couple, or call 1-800-FLTODAY and make a donation over the phone.\u00a0 Just ask for the book on prayer and, again, we\u2019ll get it out to you.\u00a0 We are grateful to you for your standing with us and your support of the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, before we wrap things up today, we\u2019ve asked Michael O\u2019Brien if he would sing a song from his CD <em>Something about Us.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>It\u2019s a song he wrote for his wife.\u00a0 In fact the title of the song is her name.\u00a0 It\u2019s \u201cSandra Heidi Anne.\u201d\u00a0 Here is Michael O\u2019Brien:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u201cSandra Heidi Anne,<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Sixteen years, still holding hands<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Every day\u2019s a sweet romance<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Every day\u2019s a new adventure<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>This extraordinary love can be extremely complicated<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>But it\u2019s more than enough to sustain me, contain me<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Sandra Heidi Anne,<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>We\u2019re strollin\u2019 down love\u2019s boulevard<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>I tip my hat to my wishin\u2019 star<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>On this sentimental evening<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>I require no invitations for quiet walks and rendezvous<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>My only expectation \u2013 please forgive me \u2013 is that you\u2019re with me<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>I possess what others dream about<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>If you should ever doubt it\u2019s true<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>It\u2019s undeniable, indefinable, incomprehensible<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Sandra Heidi Anne,<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>I\u2019m the only man for you<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Can\u2019t imagine what I\u2019d do if you weren\u2019t in the picture<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>To have and to hold you is all that I desire<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>And in case I haven\u2019t told you, you\u2019re amazing, so amazing<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Sandra Heidi Anne,<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Sandra Heidi Anne\u201d<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t*Song: Keeps Me Going\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tArtist: Michael O\u2019Brien\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlbum: Something About Us, (c)2007 Miracle Productions\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSong: Sandra Heidi Anne\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tArtist: Michael O\u2019Brien\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlbum: Something About Us, (c)2007 Miracle Productions\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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