{"id":302308,"date":"2011-07-13T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2011-07-13T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/help-for-the-depressed\/"},"modified":"2011-07-13T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2011-07-13T15:00:00","slug":"help-for-the-depressed","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/help-for-the-depressed\/","title":{"rendered":"Help for the Depressed"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Today on the broadcast, Christian counselors and authors Ed Welch and Leslie Vernick point the weary and depressed to help and hope.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-07-13.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.95M","filesize_raw":"25108745","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2846],"tags":[4008,4009,2607],"podcast_series":[7444],"cwp_profile":[9004,3229],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302308","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-depression","tag-anxiety","tag-depression","tag-stress","podcast_series-depression-a-stubborn-darkness","cwp_profile-ed-welch","cwp_profile-leslie-vernick","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302308\/help-for-the-depressed","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302308\/help-for-the-depressed","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"vxtmcvbofo\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/help-for-the-depressed\/\">Help for the Depressed<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/help-for-the-depressed\/embed\/#?secret=vxtmcvbofo\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Help for the Depressed&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"vxtmcvbofo\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-07-13.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-07-13.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Author and counselor, Dr. Ed Welch, refers to depression as a \"stubborn darkness.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Woman:<\/strong>\u00a0 When you're in a depression, it is like being in a dark tunnel, and you don't see light; people will say things thinking they're helping you, and they're really not.\u00a0 They mean well, but they just don't understand, because they haven't walked through those waters that you're walking through.\u00a0 And it's a delicate issue, because there are different sides to depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Man:<\/strong>\u00a0 We went to this counselor, and after 30 minutes or an hour or whatever it was, he basically said, \"Every problem is a spiritual problem, and we need to find out what's wrong spiritually in your life, and then these other things will fall into place.\"\u00a0 And that was very, very discouraging for my wife and me because I simply felt hopeless.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just thought, \"Well, that may be true, maybe there is something in my life that is wrong and that's causing all this, but I sure don't know what it is, and I don't see any way that I can find out what it is, so this advice is of no use to me.\u201d\u00a0 I felt all alone in facing the problem, and it was another eight years before we went to counseling again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLifeToday<\/em> for Wednesday, July 13<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Is depression a spiritual issue?\u00a0 What kind of counsel can you give to someone who is depressed?\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about that today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I'm sure all of us have been in situations where we wondered what's the right thing to say, what's the right way to come alongside another person?\u00a0 You see them suffering, you see them experiencing depression, you want to be there for them, you want to encourage them, and you're never sure if what you're going to say is going to encourage them or if it's going to send them into a downward spiral.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And if you need help in those situations, it's extremely beneficial to us if we have good coaches to be able to help us say the right things, and we've got a couple of them in the studio with us \u2013 Leslie Vernick and Dr. Ed Welch join us again on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Ed, Leslie, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Both have written books about the subject of depression, and, Ed, I want to feature your book here for just a moment \u2013 <em>Depression: A Stubborn Darkness, Light for the Path.<\/em>\u00a0 Toward the end of the book, you give a list of statements about what was not helpful and what was helpful to people who really grappled with depression.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI found these lists \u2013 especially, just listening to what was said here moments ago \u2013 to be meaningful, especially starting with the list, \"It Was Not Helpful When.\" The first one is when \"I looked for superficial sins in my life.\"\u00a0 You're saying when people look for superficial sin that didn't provide a solution for them, it wasn't helpful at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 It doesn't sound very spiritual, does it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, it doesn't.\u00a0 You'd think you'd be pointing people in that direction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 When you're depressed you will look for anything that could unlock your depression and make you feel better, and you're going to eventually start saying, \"Well, maybe there are certain sins in my life that have caused this,\" and you're going to say, \"Well, what am I doing wrong,\" and you're going to look for ways you're treating your children and things like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's important to look at those things, but, this is ultimately unavoidable.\u00a0 The nature of depression is like all suffering \u2013 it forces us to deal with the fact that we live before God at all times and in all ways.\u00a0 And if we're going to be looking at our hearts, it's the question, what is our heart?\u00a0 What are we seeing in our hearts, before God, about God?\u00a0 That would be the more profound question that we can be asking in the midst of depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0So you're distinguishing between superficial sins.\u00a0 Now, you said, you know, how you treat your children, and I'm thinking, \"Well, that may not be that superficial a sin.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re on FamilyLife radio \u2013 this is a very significant thing, absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But you're saying, let's dig even below the surface and get to why do you treat your children that way?\u00a0 It all comes back to what you believe about God and how you relate to Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 All sin is ultimately against God, and that's where we want to go.\u00a0 This is not to say, of course, that depression means that it's a consequence of sin against God.\u00a0 But the depression and all suffering, it just \u2013 C.S. Lewis says, it's this megaphone, it's God's megaphone that calls our attention more to issues in our relationship with God that we would not attend to in any other way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think it really reveals our lack of awareness of God's purposes and our lack of awareness or belief in God's character \u2013 suffering does \u2013 because when things are going well, we sort of think of God's goodness and think of God's character as wonderful and loving and good.\u00a0 But when suffering is in our life, or in someone else's life, boy, we're not sure what God's up to, and we're not sure He's good, and so those are the things that come out of us in those moments.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus tells us it\u2019s out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks, and so when we start grumbling and complaining, we start questioning, or we start being confused or perplexed, it shows some things in our relationship with God.\u00a0 Either we don't know him as he is or we don't believe what he says about himself, that we don't understand his ways, and God pretty much tells us we won't. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it's that wrestling with that in the midst of suffering or depression that really takes its toll on us and sometimes we go down for the count, and that's where we need other people to come up alongside of us and help wrestle with us, because sometimes we can't see, and we don't have perspective.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 It takes us back to that original question in the garden, \"Is God good?\u00a0 Is he really good?\" If you are accustomed to looking at God with your naked eye and trying to find evidence of his goodness around you in the health of children, and an intact marriage, whatever it might be, if you're accustomed to really focusing on those things, when suffering comes we are not equipped to seeing the goodness of God, because it seems like the difficulty in our life outweighs anything else in the world that can counterbalance that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I think that ultimately it has to be the cross of Christ that finally proves the goodness of God in the midst of suffering.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, if we're accustomed to looking at the character of God through life's circumstances, then it will always cloud our picture, and when it's good, we see it good, but when it's bad, we see it bad.\u00a0 So it's very important to move life's circumstances out of the way.\u00a0 It doesn't mean that they're not there, but that we look at God as he is and as he says he is.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr if we can't see him, we have other people help us see God as he is, and then we can look at our life and look at our suffering and look at our situation very differently.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 As we mentioned before, suffering can be a megaphone to get us to listen to God.\u00a0 Sometimes the megaphone, however, can be borrowed from the Christian community and begin to shout certain things to us that aren't good, like people who maybe want to point out sin in our lives where we've made a mistake; people who offer trite religious-sounding answers about your depression.\u00a0 \u201cJust trust God.\u201d\u00a0 You know, \u201cJust move on past your feelings and trust God.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, certainly, Job's friends were much like that, and I think we sort of like a world where everything is easy to figure out.\u00a0 So if we can say, \"Well, you suffer because of this reason,\u201d then we can avoid those reasons and not suffer ourselves.\u00a0 So we sort of like black and white simplistic answers to things and Job's friends said, \"Job, you must be suffering because you've done something really wrong,\" and that was their way of looking at things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe sort of scoff at Job's friends, but we say the same thing to our friends these days when we say, \"You know, if you didn't do this, you wouldn't be depressed,\" or \"If you didn't have this,\" and so we have these simplistic answers to life's complicated questions, and it's not so simple.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Things like \u2013 and this is a part of the list you've got in your book \u2013 \"You need to love yourself more,\" or \"You need to lower your expectations for life,\" or \"You have a right to be angry.\"\u00a0 All of those are not helpful things to say, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly, and as Leslie was pointing out, if we've been around the block long enough, we have all experienced the unhelpful things that people have said.\u00a0 We've also said the unhelpful things, so we've been on both ends.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, let's talk about how to turn the megaphone around, then, and truly help people deal with their depression and as they struggle with it perhaps find some help in the midst of it.\u00a0 You have a list here of 20 things that people express.\u00a0 They said that when these things occurred, they felt like they were getting help, things began to change.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, these are things that I've just gleaned from other people.\u00a0 If I could read a preamble to those things, which I think is helpful; this is just a comment from my book: \"Depression is a form of suffering that can't be reduced to one universal cause.\u00a0 This means that family and friends can't rush in armed with the answer.\u00a0 Instead, they must be willing to postpone swearing allegiance to a particular theory, take time to know the depressed person, and work together.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Your list of things that people did find helpful include things like realizing I'm in the middle of a battle and deciding I'm going to fight, or forcing myself to read Scripture and listening to what it said.\u00a0 One of them that's interesting here is medication \u2013 number 13.\u00a0 People said medication is one of those things I found helpful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, when we had you on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> before, the subject of medication came up as a part of our conversation, and we got a lot of mail about this whole subject, because this is controversial, and it's something that \u2013 well, I just want to give you a chance to kind of revisit this subject and see if we can clarify it for folks.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat's your view on the appropriateness \u2013 I want both of you to comment on this \u2013 the appropriateness of the use of medication if somebody is experiencing depression?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Medication, right off the bat, I think we can say from Scripture, is not a moral issue; that is, it's right to do it or it's wrong to do it.\u00a0 The category would be more the category of wisdom.\u00a0 What is wise to do?\u00a0 And as you go through the Proverbs, you go through James, you go through wisdom literature, and part of wisdom is you study.\u00a0 You ask questions.\u00a0 You learn from people who have had experience on this.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd it seems to me that's what most people do when they think about medication.\u00a0 They do their homework, they ask physicians, they ask people who have been helped by it, they perhaps ask people who have not been helped by it. So medication is an issue of wisdom.\u00a0 That would be one way the Scripture approaches it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tScripture also, I believe, leads us to say that if we can alleviate suffering in a person's life, it is a good thing to be able to alleviate suffering.\u00a0 So in that sense, if a person's suffering is alleviated in some way by medication then we are ecstatic.\u00a0 We are absolutely delighted, with them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe only qualifications \u2013 not the only qualifications \u2013 Leslie may have a number of other comments to say, but one qualification would be this \u2013 you don't put your hope in medication.\u00a0 Medication will not give you purpose, it will not give you a deeper love for Christ, it won't give you a deeper love for other people.\u00a0 There are limitations to what medication can do.\u00a0 It's a physical treatment for some of the physical experiences of depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think I would agree with Ed in everything he said.\u00a0 Medication is a wonderful blessing for some people.\u00a0 The only caveat I would have is that medication doesn't cure depression; medication alleviates some of the symptoms of depression, which, again, can be a great blessing.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don't think there's anything in Scripture that says that we can't use some things for medicinal purposes to alleviate suffering.\u00a0 Certainly, there was a balm in Gilead, wine was taken for stomach's sake, and so there's times when medicines can be very helpful and alleviate suffering.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHowever, I think it's important in addition to taking medicine, if someone chooses that route and thinks that that's a wise thing to do, that they also do the rest of the homework inside their heart and understand what suffering has shown them about the patterns they have in the way they think or the way they see God; the way they relate to others or don't; the way they handle conflict or aren't honest with themselves because depression exposes some of those things in Technicolor, and if you just relieve yourself of the symptoms of those but don't actually do the work that might help you to get better, not just feel better, I think you're robbing yourself of the opportunity to grow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And that's where I'm wondering \u2013 if medication helps you turn down the volume of suffering, and if the Scripture says that suffering can be one of the things that we should embrace as a part of the Christian life, are we turning down the volume on something that God wants to use to sanctify us?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you know, when I have a headache, I don't really think about it that way.\u00a0 I certainly just pop a couple of aspirins, and I'm happy to feel better.\u00a0 And if God wants me to continue to suffer, I certainly will continue to suffer.\u00a0 So I sort of leave that to the sovereignty of God.\u00a0 I think that sometimes we can, in our wisdom, take measures to counteract our suffering.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if I had repetitive headaches or medicine didn't alleviate all of the headaches because I was constantly running myself ragged, not getting enough sleep, not taking care of the stress in my life, I think I would need to address other issues as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMedication doesn't usually make someone feel 100 percent better.\u00a0 It takes some of the edge off, especially physically so that they can begin to think again, they can sleep again, they can have their appetite again.\u00a0 In that way it helps them to do some of the other work that we're talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, what I hear us saying and what I personally believe is that it's not a matter of just taking a pill and finding a solution.\u00a0 That may help you deal with some symptoms or some problems that drag you down and take you deeper into a hole.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat must be addressed are the needs of the soul, and that can only be addressed as a person gets rightly related to God through Jesus Christ and coming to grips with what the Bible has to say about him or her and that person's life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, as you bring that up, though, I remember some of the feedback we got the last time we touched on this subject.\u00a0 People who said, \"So you're saying my depression is a spiritual problem.\u00a0 I have a spiritual problem.\u00a0 It's not a medical problem, it's a spiritual problem.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, even if it's a medical problem, a medical problem has spiritual components.\u00a0 My brother was diagnosed with coronary artery disease a couple of years ago, and he had a wise doctor, because he needed a medical procedure just like a person who is depressed may need some antidepressants.\u00a0 He needed some stents inserted in his arteries.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut in addition to that, the doctor said, \"You know what?\u00a0 Tell me about your lifestyle.\u00a0 How do you handle stress?\u00a0 What's going on in your interpersonal life?\u00a0 Are you angry?\u00a0 Are you a smoker?\u00a0 Do you exercise?\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so he knew, as a wise doctor would, that in order to prevent further episodes of coronary artery disease, he also needed to look at this person's overall lifestyle \u2013 his ways of thinking, his ways of relating, his spiritual perspective, did he have a purpose to life?\u00a0 Because all of those factors go into someone getting sick as well as someone getting well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so even with a medical problem, there are spiritual components, and with spiritual problems there's physical components.\u00a0 We don't always know which comes first, and that's why it's important for a person who is experiencing depression to understand that we need to handle both parts \u2013 the physical, emotional, spiritual, and relational.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Leslie, we can perhaps even say it more strongly than that \u2013 we could say that medical problems are always spiritual problems.\u00a0 Which isn't to say that they're always caused by spiritual problems, but if somebody is diagnosed with cancer, that is always a spiritual problem.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPastors and friends go and visit in hospital because they know there are all kinds of spiritual issues that are aroused by especially chronic and debilitating medical disease.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We're not saying the cancer was necessarily caused by a spiritual problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 But it at least raises questions about who is God and how do I trust him in the midst of even this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So with depression can we say, \"I really am not responsible for being depressed.\u00a0 This is a physiological issue that's causing this.\"\u00a0 Or must we say, \"No, you bear some responsibility for what you're experiencing?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 In one sense, the Scripture doesn't force us to make a decision on that.\u00a0 If we're suffering, it is certainly a time when we can think about \"How can I alleviate the suffering?\"\u00a0 But suffering is always that occasion to go to the Lord and say, \"Lord, search me.\u00a0 Lord, grant me a faith that I didn't have before because I need more grace to go through this particular difficulty.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 And there may be some \u2013 even for someone who has coronary artery disease or cancer, they may have to bear some responsibility for allowing themselves to get in that place to begin with.\u00a0 I mean, my mother had lung cancer because she was a smoker.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, does that help her to say, \"Oh, Mom, you got lung cancer because you're a smoker.\u00a0 Shame on you.\"\u00a0 No, it didn't help her at all.\u00a0 So she had to stop smoking, she had to change her lifestyle.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf someone has coronary artery disease because they're a smoker or they don't exercise or they eat high cholesterol food, they may need to make some changes in their lifestyle, which is a good thing, to take responsibility for things that you need to do differently so that you begin to get better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bob, I want to go back to your first question, and I can't restate it perfectly, but you were saying basically do we have a spiritual problem, and the answer is yes.\u00a0 Every person has a spiritual problem, whether you're dealing with depression, whether you're dealing with anger.\u00a0 You name the issue in your life.\u00a0 Cut through all the descriptive phrases.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to put a label on everything today, but you know what?\u00a0 We move past all the labels to the human soul, and what the Bible teaches is that we are spiritual beings who have needs in our soul that can only be addressed by the Lord God Almighty, who stepped out of eternity to forgive our sins and to bring us into a right relationship.\u00a0 When you deny that, if you deny him, I think you're going to get depressed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, one of the other things that you point out that people have said was helpful \u2013 one person said, \"I had a friend who didn't give up on me.\u00a0 She was always loving me, pointing out the truth even when I didn't want to hear about Jesus.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJust somebody, again, I think, and we talked about this earlier \u2013 I think of John Newton never giving up on William Cooper, his friend in the ministry.\u00a0 And I can imagine there were days when Cooper was coming over to Newton's house, and Newton just went, \"Oh, lock the door. I do not want to spend the afternoon with depressed William Cooper.\"\u00a0 And yet he opened the door, and he ministered to him.\u00a0 That's heroic, too, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>We are asking something very difficult of a depressed person \u2013 we're asking them to persevere.\u00a0 But what we don't realize is that we have that same call in our own life as we walk along with them.\u00a0 Love, in and of itself, is not the cure, but every depressed person that I've ever met would say that it made a huge difference for them, and that pastoral, persistent love, even when the depressed person is essentially saying \"Stay away, I'm not worth it.\u00a0 I'm not worth the effort,\" but a person just has that persistent love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, that one quote was by a woman who \u2013 her friend was in bed, and what she did was she just went over to her house, put her pajamas on, and jumped in bed with her.\u00a0 She said, \"Okay, if you're going to be in bed, alright, I'm going to be with you.\u00a0 Wherever you are, I'm going to be with you, and I have two hours this morning, and I'll be in bed with you.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 And what that does for the depressed person is it incarnates Christ to them.\u00a0 You see \u2013 when you're in depression you can't see Jesus.\u00a0 You can't experience Him.\u00a0 The psalmist says, \"You're so far away from me, where are you?\"\u00a0 And we are to be the body of Christ to one another.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo when we are patient and loving and kind and persevering and truthful, we show them the hands and arms and feet of Christ, and they can begin, then, to see God's character as it's embodied in our lives.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd, likewise, when we're impatient, and we give up, and we are critical, they also can say, \"Well, this is how you feel, and God must feel that way, too.\"\u00a0 Unfortunately, they can put that spin on it.\u00a0 So it's really important that we don't ask them to do something that we're not doing ourselves.\u00a0 We're asking them to persevere, yet we don't want to persevere.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, exactly, and sometimes it's not what we say, it's that we listen and just listen attentively again and again and again, and then without saying a lot, reach out and touch them.\u00a0 Just let them know that they're cared for, and you love them.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don't know if at the end of my mom's life if she was depressed or not.\u00a0 She was dying of Alzheimer's, but I remember many times being seated beside her bed as she died, and she would look away to the window where there was snow falling outside, and she would all of a sudden turn back just to see if I was there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don't know if Alzheimer's had robbed her of her memory that I could still be there while she was looking out the window, but she just would turn back around, and it was what moved me, at a point, to just take hold of my mom's frail hand, where you could almost see the bones in her hand, because her skin was so thin, and just held her hand there as she struggled with the disease, you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that's what we're talking about here.\u00a0 People need other people to love them, to speak to them about the Scriptures and the truth about God, the truth about them, but also to listen and be close to them and just to be there for them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 You don't have to be an expert to have a profound effect on another person's life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, you don't.\u00a0 Just love them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Ed has written a book called <em>Depression: A Stubborn Darkness, Light for the Path<\/em>.\u00a0 Leslie's book is called <em>Defeating Depression,<\/em> and we\u2019ve got both of the books in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 Great books for you to read if you know someone, a friend or a family member, who wrestles with depression and you want to come alongside and help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on both of these books, the one by Ed Welch and one by Leslie Vernick.\u00a0 Again our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329, that\u2019s 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.\u00a0 When you get in touch with us we\u2019ll let you know how you can get a copy of Ed\u2019s book, <em>Depression: A Stubborn Darkness<\/em> or Leslie\u2019s book, <em>Defeating Depression,<\/em> sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow I know this issue of depression that we\u2019ve been talking about this week is one of those issues that can cause people to pull back and say, \u201cHow can there be a God when there is this kind of pain, this kind of suffering in somebody\u2019s life?\u201d\u00a0 Our friend, Randy Alcorn, has addressed that subject in a 64-page booklet that we want to make available to you at no cost.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a booklet called <em>If God is Good, Why Do We Hurt?<\/em>\u00a0 This week again we\u2019re making that booklet available.\u00a0 All you have to do is call or go to our website to request a copy.\u00a0 If you\u2019re a new listener to <em>FamilyLife Today,<\/em> again the website, FamilyLifeToday.com, stop by and just give us your name and some information, and we\u2019ll send a copy of Randy\u2019s booklet out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr call 1-800-FLTODAY; ask for your free copy of the book <em>If God is Good, Why Do I Hurt?<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Again, we\u2019ll send it out to you.\u00a0 We hope you\u2019ll find it helpful, and we just want to say we appreciate you listening to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Nice to have you tuned in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you\u2019ll tune in again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about whether there is any real genuine hope you can present to a person who is experiencing depression.\u00a0 We\u2019ll have that conversation tomorrow, and I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.95M"],"filesize_raw":["25108745"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302308.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302308.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-e11dbe9f{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-e11dbe9f > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;padding-top: 3em;padding-bottom: 3em;padding-left: 1.5em;padding-right: 1.5em;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;background-color: #f8f8f8;;}@media only screen and (max-width: 976px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-e11dbe9f{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-e11dbe9f > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f{padding-top: 3px;padding-bottom: 3px;padding-left: 1.5px;padding-right: 1.5px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-color: #f8f8f8;;}}@media only screen and (max-width: 767px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-e11dbe9f{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-e11dbe9f > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f{padding-top: 3px;padding-bottom: 3px;padding-left: 1.5px;padding-right: 1.5px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-color: #f8f8f8;;}}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-85559158 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-85559158 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-85559158 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-85559158 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-85559158 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-85559158{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-85559158 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 960px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-85559158{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;padding-top: 0px;padding-bottom: 0px;padding-left: 10px;padding-right: 10px;margin-top: 60px !important;margin-bottom: 60px !important;margin-left: 0px;margin-right: 0px;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ea16301a .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ea16301a .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ea16301a .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ea16301a .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ea16301a .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-ea16301a{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-ea16301a > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ea16301a.uagb-layout-grid > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{row-gap: 40px;column-gap: 40px;grid-template-columns: minmax( 1px, 1fr)  minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;grid-template-rows: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;align-items: start;justify-items: stretch;align-content: stretch;justify-content: stretch;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ea16301a{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;padding-top: 0px;padding-bottom: 0px;padding-left: 0px;padding-right: 0px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ea16301a.wp-block-uagb-container > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not( .spectra-container-link-overlay ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox):not(.wp-block-uagb-lottie):not(.uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap){width: auto !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ea16301a.wp-block-uagb-container > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox){width: auto !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-26ccc5c9 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-26ccc5c9 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-26ccc5c9 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-26ccc5c9 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-26ccc5c9 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-26ccc5c9{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-26ccc5c9 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: flex-start;flex-wrap: nowrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-26ccc5c9{min-height: 710px;box-shadow: 3px 7px 7px -1px rgba(0,0,0,0.15) ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;background-color: #ffffff;;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: flex-start;flex-wrap: nowrap;align-self: start;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-84f50fa3 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-84f50fa3 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-84f50fa3 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-84f50fa3 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-84f50fa3 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;background: url(https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/07\/Grow-with-your-family_545x307.jpg) 50% 50%;;background-size: cover;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-84f50fa3{max-width: 100vw;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-84f50fa3 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-84f50fa3{min-height: 250px;box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;background-repeat: no-repeat;background-position: 50% 50%;background-size: cover;background-attachment: scroll;background-image: url(https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/03\/Grow-with-your-family_545x307.webp);background-clip: padding-box;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-271bf38d .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-271bf38d .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-271bf38d .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-271bf38d .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-271bf38d .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-271bf38d{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-271bf38d > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;row-gap: 40px;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-271bf38d{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;padding-top: 20px;padding-bottom: 40px;padding-left: 40px;padding-right: 40px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;row-gap: 40px;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-ab8d0982{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-ab8d0982 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982.uagb-layout-grid{row-gap: 8px;column-gap: 8px;grid-template-columns: auto  minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;grid-template-rows: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;align-items: stretch;justify-items: stretch;align-content: stretch;justify-content: stretch;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982.wp-block-uagb-container > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not( .spectra-container-link-overlay ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox):not(.wp-block-uagb-lottie):not(.uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap){width: auto !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982.wp-block-uagb-container > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox){width: auto !important;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d4c1a7e3.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-heading-text{color: #25282a;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d4c1a7e3.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-desc-text{margin-bottom: 15px;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d4c1a7e3.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight{font-style: normal;font-weight: Default;background: #007cba;color: #fff;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d4c1a7e3.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight::-moz-selection{color: #fff;background: #007cba;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d4c1a7e3.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight::selection{color: #fff;background: #007cba;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d4c1a7e3 .uagb-heading-text{font-weight: 300;font-size: 16px;}.uagb-block-f9d54988.wp-block-uagb-separator{text-align: left;}.uagb-block-f9d54988.wp-block-uagb-separator--text .wp-block-uagb-separator-element .uagb-html-tag{font-style: normal;line-height: 1em;}.uagb-block-f9d54988 .uagb-separator-spacing-wrapper{padding-top: 4px;padding-bottom: 4px;}.uagb-block-f9d54988.wp-block-uagb-separator:not(.wp-block-uagb-separator--text):not(.wp-block-uagb-separator--icon) .wp-block-uagb-separator__inner{-webkit-mask-size: 5px 100%;border-top-width: 3px;width: 100%;border-top-color: #eabe5e;border-top-style: solid;margin-top: 5px;margin-bottom: 5px;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-3208cc36.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-heading-text{color: #006a5a;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-3208cc36.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-desc-text{margin-bottom: 15px;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-3208cc36.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight{font-style: normal;font-weight: Default;background: #007cba;color: #fff;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-3208cc36.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight::-moz-selection{color: #fff;background: #007cba;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-3208cc36.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight::selection{color: #fff;background: #007cba;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-3208cc36 .uagb-heading-text{font-weight: 400;font-size: 26px;line-height: 1.2em;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .uagb-icon-list__source-image{width: 18px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap svg{width: 18px;height: 18px;font-size: 18px;color: #1573a2;fill: #1573a2;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{padding: 0px;border-radius: 0px;border-width: 0px;align-self: center;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__label{font-size: 20px;text-decoration: !important;line-height: em;color: #1573a2;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .uagb-icon-list__wrap{display: flex;flex-direction: column;justify-content: center;-webkit-box-pack: center;-ms-flex-pack: center;-webkit-box-align: flex-start;-ms-flex-align: flex-start;align-items: flex-start;padding-top: 0px;padding-right: 0px;padding-bottom: 0px;padding-left: 0px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .uagb-icon-list__label{text-align: left;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child{text-decoration: !important;font-size: 20px;line-height: em;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd.wp-block-uagb-icon-list .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child{margin-left: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 24px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{margin-left: 15px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child {flex-direction: row-reverse;}.uagb-block-fdd052c2.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-fdd052c2.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child:hover .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-679dc0da.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-679dc0da.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child:hover .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-fbb8dca6.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-fbb8dca6.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child:hover .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-b5e9a44d.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-b5e9a44d.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child:hover .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-10525170.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-10525170.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child:hover .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-48a597f8 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-48a597f8 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-48a597f8 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-48a597f8 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-48a597f8 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-48a597f8{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-48a597f8 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: flex-start;flex-wrap: nowrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-48a597f8{min-height: 710px;box-shadow: 3px 7px 7px -1px rgba(0,0,0,0.15) ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;background-color: #ffffff;;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: flex-start;flex-wrap: nowrap;align-self: start;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-22a41c70 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-22a41c70 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-22a41c70 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-22a41c70 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-22a41c70 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;background: url(https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/07\/Grow-with-your-family_545x307.jpg) 50% 50%;;background-size: cover;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-22a41c70{max-width: 100vw;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-22a41c70 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-22a41c70{min-height: 250px;box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;background-repeat: no-repeat;background-position: 50% 50%;background-size: cover;background-attachment: scroll;background-image: url(https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/03\/HelpFamiliesGrow2.webp);background-clip: padding-box;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-562935bf .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-562935bf .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-562935bf .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-562935bf .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-562935bf .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-562935bf{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-562935bf > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;row-gap: 40px;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-562935bf{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;padding-top: 20px;padding-bottom: 40px;padding-left: 40px;padding-right: 40px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;row-gap: 40px;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-5a1442f2{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-5a1442f2 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2.uagb-layout-grid{row-gap: 8px;column-gap: 8px;grid-template-columns: auto  minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;grid-template-rows: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;align-items: stretch;justify-items: stretch;align-content: stretch;justify-content: stretch;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2.wp-block-uagb-container > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not( .spectra-container-link-overlay ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox):not(.wp-block-uagb-lottie):not(.uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap){width: auto !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2.wp-block-uagb-container > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox){width: auto !important;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d9c0200f.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-heading-text{color: #25282a;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d9c0200f.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-desc-text{margin-bottom: 15px;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d9c0200f.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight{font-style: normal;font-weight: Default;background: #007cba;color: #fff;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d9c0200f.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight::-moz-selection{color: #fff;background: #007cba;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d9c0200f.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight::selection{color: #fff;background: #007cba;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d9c0200f .uagb-heading-text{font-weight: 300;font-size: 16px;}.uagb-block-aa17f10e.wp-block-uagb-separator{text-align: left;}.uagb-block-aa17f10e.wp-block-uagb-separator--text .wp-block-uagb-separator-element .uagb-html-tag{font-style: normal;line-height: 1em;}.uagb-block-aa17f10e .uagb-separator-spacing-wrapper{padding-top: 4px;padding-bottom: 4px;}.uagb-block-aa17f10e.wp-block-uagb-separator:not(.wp-block-uagb-separator--text):not(.wp-block-uagb-separator--icon) .wp-block-uagb-separator__inner{-webkit-mask-size: 5px 100%;border-top-width: 3px;width: 100%;border-top-color: #eabe5e;border-top-style: solid;margin-top: 5px;margin-bottom: 5px;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-31f155e3.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-heading-text{color: #006a5a;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-31f155e3.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-desc-text{margin-bottom: 15px;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-31f155e3.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight{font-style: normal;font-weight: Default;background: #007cba;color: #fff;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-31f155e3.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight::-moz-selection{color: #fff;background: #007cba;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-31f155e3.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight::selection{color: #fff;background: #007cba;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-31f155e3 .uagb-heading-text{font-weight: 400;font-size: 26px;line-height: 1.2em;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .uagb-icon-list__source-image{width: 18px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap svg{width: 18px;height: 18px;font-size: 18px;color: #1573a2;fill: #1573a2;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{padding: 0px;border-radius: 0px;border-width: 0px;align-self: center;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__label{font-size: 20px;text-decoration: !important;line-height: em;color: #1573a2;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .uagb-icon-list__wrap{display: flex;flex-direction: column;justify-content: center;-webkit-box-pack: center;-ms-flex-pack: center;-webkit-box-align: flex-start;-ms-flex-align: flex-start;align-items: flex-start;padding-top: 0px;padding-right: 0px;padding-bottom: 0px;padding-left: 0px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .uagb-icon-list__label{text-align: left;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child{text-decoration: !important;font-size: 20px;line-height: em;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64.wp-block-uagb-icon-list .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child{margin-left: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 24px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{margin-left: 15px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child {flex-direction: row-reverse;}.uagb-block-83befcbf.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-83befcbf.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child:hover .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-75d2f158.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-75d2f158.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child:hover .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-0d14af90.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-0d14af90.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child:hover .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-4dd6f9d3.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-4dd6f9d3.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child:hover .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-28c58e21.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}.uagb-block-28c58e21.wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child:hover .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{background:  !important;border-color:  !important;}@media only screen and (max-width: 976px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-85559158{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-85559158 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-85559158{padding-top: 0px;padding-bottom: 0px;padding-left: 10px;padding-right: 10px;margin-top: 60px !important;margin-bottom: 60px !important;margin-left: 0px;margin-right: 0px;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-ea16301a{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-ea16301a > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ea16301a.uagb-layout-grid > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{grid-template-columns: minmax( 1px, 1fr)  minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;grid-template-rows: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;align-items: stretch;justify-items: stretch;align-content: stretch;justify-content: stretch;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ea16301a{padding-top: 0px;padding-bottom: 0px;padding-left: 0px;padding-right: 0px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-26ccc5c9{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-26ccc5c9 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-26ccc5c9{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-color: #ffffff;;grid-column: span 1;grid-row: span 1;align-self: stretch;justify-self: stretch;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-84f50fa3{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-84f50fa3 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-84f50fa3{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-position: 54% 48%;background-size: cover;background-image: url(https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/03\/Grow-with-your-family_545x307.webp);background-clip: padding-box;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-271bf38d{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-271bf38d > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-271bf38d{padding-top: 20px;padding-bottom: 40px;padding-left: 40px;padding-right: 40px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-ab8d0982{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-ab8d0982 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982.uagb-layout-grid{grid-template-columns: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;grid-template-rows: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;align-items: stretch;justify-items: stretch;align-content: stretch;justify-content: stretch;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982.wp-block-uagb-container > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not( .spectra-container-link-overlay ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox):not(.wp-block-uagb-lottie):not(.uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap){width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982.wp-block-uagb-container > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox){width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d4c1a7e3 .uagb-heading-text{font-size: 12px;letter-spacing: 1px;}.uagb-block-f9d54988.wp-block-uagb-separator{text-align: center;}.uagb-block-f9d54988.wp-block-uagb-separator--text .wp-block-uagb-separator-element .uagb-html-tag{font-style: normal;margin-bottom: initial;line-height: 1em;}.uagb-block-f9d54988 .uagb-separator-spacing-wrapper{padding-top: 10px;padding-bottom: 10px;}.uagb-block-f9d54988.wp-block-uagb-separator:not(.wp-block-uagb-separator--text):not(.wp-block-uagb-separator--icon) .wp-block-uagb-separator__inner{-webkit-mask-size: 5px 100%;width: 100%;border-top-color: #eabe5e;border-top-style: solid;margin-top: 5px;margin-bottom: 5px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .uagb-icon-list__source-image{width: 18px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap svg{width: 18px;height: 18px;font-size: 18px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap {padding: 0px;border-width: 0px;align-self: center;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .uagb-icon-list__wrap{display: flex;flex-direction: column;justify-content: center;-webkit-box-pack: center;-ms-flex-pack: center;-webkit-box-align: flex-start;-ms-flex-align: flex-start;align-items: flex-start;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd.wp-block-uagb-icon-list .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child{margin-left: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 24px;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-48a597f8{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-48a597f8 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-48a597f8{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-color: #ffffff;;grid-column: span 1;grid-row: span 1;align-self: stretch;justify-self: stretch;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-22a41c70{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-22a41c70 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-22a41c70{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-position: 54% 48%;background-size: cover;background-image: url(https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/03\/HelpFamiliesGrow2.webp);background-clip: padding-box;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-562935bf{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-562935bf > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-562935bf{padding-top: 20px;padding-bottom: 40px;padding-left: 40px;padding-right: 40px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-5a1442f2{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-5a1442f2 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2.uagb-layout-grid{grid-template-columns: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;grid-template-rows: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;align-items: stretch;justify-items: stretch;align-content: stretch;justify-content: stretch;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2.wp-block-uagb-container > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not( .spectra-container-link-overlay ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox):not(.wp-block-uagb-lottie):not(.uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap){width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2.wp-block-uagb-container > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox){width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d9c0200f .uagb-heading-text{font-size: 12px;letter-spacing: 1px;}.uagb-block-aa17f10e.wp-block-uagb-separator{text-align: center;}.uagb-block-aa17f10e.wp-block-uagb-separator--text .wp-block-uagb-separator-element .uagb-html-tag{font-style: normal;margin-bottom: initial;line-height: 1em;}.uagb-block-aa17f10e .uagb-separator-spacing-wrapper{padding-top: 10px;padding-bottom: 10px;}.uagb-block-aa17f10e.wp-block-uagb-separator:not(.wp-block-uagb-separator--text):not(.wp-block-uagb-separator--icon) .wp-block-uagb-separator__inner{-webkit-mask-size: 5px 100%;width: 100%;border-top-color: #eabe5e;border-top-style: solid;margin-top: 5px;margin-bottom: 5px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .uagb-icon-list__source-image{width: 18px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap svg{width: 18px;height: 18px;font-size: 18px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap {padding: 0px;border-width: 0px;align-self: center;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .uagb-icon-list__wrap{display: flex;flex-direction: column;justify-content: center;-webkit-box-pack: center;-ms-flex-pack: center;-webkit-box-align: flex-start;-ms-flex-align: flex-start;align-items: flex-start;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64.wp-block-uagb-icon-list .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child{margin-left: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 24px;}}@media only screen and (max-width: 767px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-85559158{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-85559158 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-85559158{padding-top: 0px;padding-bottom: 0px;padding-left: 10px;padding-right: 10px;margin-top: 60px !important;margin-bottom: 60px !important;margin-left: 0px;margin-right: 0px;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-ea16301a{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-ea16301a > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ea16301a.uagb-layout-grid > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{grid-template-columns: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;grid-template-rows: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;align-items: stretch;justify-items: stretch;align-content: stretch;justify-content: stretch;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ea16301a{padding-top: 0px;padding-bottom: 0px;padding-left: 0px;padding-right: 0px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-26ccc5c9{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-26ccc5c9 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-26ccc5c9{padding-top: 0px;padding-bottom: 0px;padding-left: 0px;padding-right: 0px;margin-top: 0px !important;margin-bottom: 0px !important;margin-left: 0px;margin-right: 0px;order: initial;background-color: #ffffff;;flex-wrap: wrap;grid-column: span 1;grid-row: span 1;align-self: stretch;justify-self: stretch;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-84f50fa3{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-84f50fa3 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-84f50fa3{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-image: url(https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/03\/Grow-with-your-family_545x307.webp);background-clip: padding-box;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-271bf38d{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-271bf38d > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-271bf38d{padding-top: 20px;padding-bottom: 40px;padding-left: 40px;padding-right: 40px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-ab8d0982{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-ab8d0982 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982.uagb-layout-grid{grid-template-columns: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;grid-template-rows: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;align-items: stretch;justify-items: stretch;align-content: stretch;justify-content: stretch;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982.wp-block-uagb-container > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not( .spectra-container-link-overlay ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox):not(.wp-block-uagb-lottie):not(.uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap){width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ab8d0982.wp-block-uagb-container > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox){width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d4c1a7e3.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading {padding-left: 40px;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d4c1a7e3 .uagb-heading-text{letter-spacing: 4px;}.uagb-block-f9d54988.wp-block-uagb-separator{text-align: center;}.uagb-block-f9d54988.wp-block-uagb-separator--text .wp-block-uagb-separator-element .uagb-html-tag{font-style: normal;margin-bottom: initial;line-height: 1em;}.uagb-block-f9d54988 .uagb-separator-spacing-wrapper{padding-top: 10px;padding-bottom: 10px;}.uagb-block-f9d54988.wp-block-uagb-separator:not(.wp-block-uagb-separator--text):not(.wp-block-uagb-separator--icon) .wp-block-uagb-separator__inner{-webkit-mask-size: 5px 100%;width: 100%;border-top-color: #eabe5e;border-top-style: solid;margin-top: 5px;margin-bottom: 5px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .uagb-icon-list__source-image{width: 18px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap svg{width: 18px;height: 18px;font-size: 18px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{padding: 0px;border-width: 0px;align-self: center;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd .uagb-icon-list__wrap{display: flex;flex-direction: column;justify-content: center;-webkit-box-pack: center;-ms-flex-pack: center;-webkit-box-align: flex-start;-ms-flex-align: flex-start;align-items: flex-start;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-cbb8c5bd.wp-block-uagb-icon-list .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child{margin-left: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 24px;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-48a597f8{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-48a597f8 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-48a597f8{padding-top: 0px;padding-bottom: 0px;padding-left: 0px;padding-right: 0px;margin-top: 0px !important;margin-bottom: 0px !important;margin-left: 0px;margin-right: 0px;order: initial;background-color: #ffffff;;flex-wrap: wrap;grid-column: span 1;grid-row: span 1;align-self: stretch;justify-self: stretch;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-22a41c70{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-22a41c70 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-22a41c70{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-image: url(https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2025\/03\/HelpFamiliesGrow2.webp);background-clip: padding-box;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-562935bf{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-562935bf > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-562935bf{padding-top: 20px;padding-bottom: 40px;padding-left: 40px;padding-right: 40px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-5a1442f2{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-5a1442f2 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2.uagb-layout-grid{grid-template-columns: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;grid-template-rows: minmax( 1px, 1fr) ;align-items: stretch;justify-items: stretch;align-content: stretch;justify-content: stretch;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2.wp-block-uagb-container > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not( .spectra-container-link-overlay ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox):not(.wp-block-uagb-lottie):not(.uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap){width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5a1442f2.wp-block-uagb-container > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox){width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d9c0200f.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading {padding-left: 40px;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-d9c0200f .uagb-heading-text{letter-spacing: 4px;}.uagb-block-aa17f10e.wp-block-uagb-separator{text-align: center;}.uagb-block-aa17f10e.wp-block-uagb-separator--text .wp-block-uagb-separator-element .uagb-html-tag{font-style: normal;margin-bottom: initial;line-height: 1em;}.uagb-block-aa17f10e .uagb-separator-spacing-wrapper{padding-top: 10px;padding-bottom: 10px;}.uagb-block-aa17f10e.wp-block-uagb-separator:not(.wp-block-uagb-separator--text):not(.wp-block-uagb-separator--icon) .wp-block-uagb-separator__inner{-webkit-mask-size: 5px 100%;width: 100%;border-top-color: #eabe5e;border-top-style: solid;margin-top: 5px;margin-bottom: 5px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .uagb-icon-list__source-image{width: 18px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap svg{width: 18px;height: 18px;font-size: 18px;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child .uagb-icon-list__source-wrap{padding: 0px;border-width: 0px;align-self: center;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64 .uagb-icon-list__wrap{display: flex;flex-direction: column;justify-content: center;-webkit-box-pack: center;-ms-flex-pack: center;-webkit-box-align: flex-start;-ms-flex-align: flex-start;align-items: flex-start;}.wp-block-uagb-icon-list.uagb-block-ced20c64.wp-block-uagb-icon-list .wp-block-uagb-icon-list-child{margin-left: 0;margin-right: 0;margin-bottom: 24px;}}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ecebc267 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ecebc267 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ecebc267 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ecebc267 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ecebc267 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-ecebc267{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ecebc267{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;background: linear-gradient(130deg, #ffffff 60%, #f8f8f8 46%);;background-clip: padding-box;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;}@media only screen and (max-width: 976px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-ecebc267{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ecebc267{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background: linear-gradient(130deg, #ffffff 60%, #f8f8f8 46%);;background-clip: padding-box;}}@media only screen and (max-width: 767px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-ecebc267{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-ecebc267{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background: linear-gradient(130deg, #ffffff 60%, #f8f8f8 46%);;background-clip: padding-box;flex-wrap: wrap;}}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-8d4ac8a0 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-8d4ac8a0 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-8d4ac8a0 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-8d4ac8a0 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-8d4ac8a0 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-8d4ac8a0{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-8d4ac8a0 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: row;align-items: flex-start;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;row-gap: 32px;column-gap: 32px;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-8d4ac8a0{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;padding-top: 80px;padding-bottom: 80px;padding-left: 12px;padding-right: 12px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;row-gap: 32px;column-gap: 32px;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-047d9c4f{max-width: 25%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;max-width: 25% !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-047d9c4f{max-width: 25%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;max-width: 25% !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-047d9c4f{max-width: 25%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;max-width: 25% !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-047d9c4f{max-width: 25%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;max-width: 25% !important;}@media only screen and (max-width: 976px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-8d4ac8a0{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-8d4ac8a0 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-8d4ac8a0{padding-top: 80px;padding-bottom: 80px;padding-left: 12px;padding-right: 12px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-047d9c4f{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;max-width:  !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-047d9c4f{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;max-width:  !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-047d9c4f{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;max-width:  !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-047d9c4f{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;max-width:  !important;}}@media only screen and (max-width: 767px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-8d4ac8a0{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-8d4ac8a0 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-8d4ac8a0{padding-top: 80px;padding-bottom: 80px;padding-left: 12px;padding-right: 12px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-047d9c4f{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;flex-wrap: wrap;max-width: 100% !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-047d9c4f{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;flex-wrap: wrap;max-width: 100% !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-047d9c4f{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;flex-wrap: wrap;max-width: 100% !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-047d9c4f{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-047d9c4f{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;flex-wrap: wrap;max-width: 100% !important;}}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-f064f662.wp-block-uagb-container{color: #ffffff;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-f064f662.wp-block-uagb-container *{color: #ffffff;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-f064f662 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-f064f662 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-f064f662 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-f064f662 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-f064f662 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-f064f662{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-f064f662 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;row-gap: 20px;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-f064f662{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;padding-top: 20px;padding-bottom: 20px;padding-left: 12px;padding-right: 12px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;background-color: #25282a;;row-gap: 20px;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-dbd5f6c0 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-dbd5f6c0 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-dbd5f6c0 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-dbd5f6c0 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-dbd5f6c0 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-dbd5f6c0{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-dbd5f6c0 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: row;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;row-gap: 20px;column-gap: 32px;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-dbd5f6c0{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;flex-direction: row;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;row-gap: 20px;column-gap: 32px;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-dbd5f6c0.wp-block-uagb-container > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not( .spectra-container-link-overlay ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox):not(.wp-block-uagb-lottie):not(.uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap){width: auto !important;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-dbd5f6c0.wp-block-uagb-container > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap > *:not( .wp-block-uagb-column ):not( .wp-block-uagb-section ):not( .uagb-container__shape ):not( .uagb-container__video-wrap ):not( .uagb-slider-container ):not(.spectra-image-gallery__control-lightbox){width: auto !important;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image--layout-default figure img{box-shadow: 0px 0px 0 #00000070;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image .wp-block-uagb-image__figure figcaption{font-style: normal;align-self: center;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay figure img{box-shadow: 0px 0px 0 #00000070;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay .wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay__color-wrapper{opacity: 0.2;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay .wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay__inner{left: 15px;right: 15px;top: 15px;bottom: 15px;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay .wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay__inner .uagb-image-heading{font-style: normal;color: #fff;opacity: 1;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay .wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay__inner .uagb-image-heading a{color: #fff;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay .wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay__inner .uagb-image-caption{opacity: 0;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay .wp-block-uagb-image__figure:hover .wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay__color-wrapper{opacity: 1;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image .wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay__inner .uagb-image-separator{width: 30%;border-top-width: 2px;border-top-color: #fff;opacity: 0;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image .wp-block-uagb-image__figure img{width: 292px;height: 48px;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image .wp-block-uagb-image__figure:hover .wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay__inner .uagb-image-caption{opacity: 1;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image .wp-block-uagb-image__figure:hover .wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay__inner .uagb-image-separator{opacity: 1;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image--layout-default figure:hover img{box-shadow: 0px 0px 0 #00000070;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image--layout-overlay figure:hover img{box-shadow: 0px 0px 0 #00000070;}@media only screen and (max-width: 976px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-f064f662{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-f064f662 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-f064f662{padding-top: 20px;padding-bottom: 20px;padding-left: 12px;padding-right: 12px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-color: #25282a;;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-dbd5f6c0{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-dbd5f6c0 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-dbd5f6c0{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image .wp-block-uagb-image__figure img{width: 280px;height: 45px;}}@media only screen and (max-width: 767px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-f064f662{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-f064f662 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-f064f662{padding-top: 20px;padding-bottom: 20px;padding-left: 12px;padding-right: 12px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-color: #25282a;;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-dbd5f6c0{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-dbd5f6c0 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-dbd5f6c0{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;flex-wrap: wrap;}.uagb-block-644e4891.wp-block-uagb-image .wp-block-uagb-image__figure img{width: 280px;height: 45px;}}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-beb12949{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-beb12949 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;background-color: #006c5b;;}@media only screen and (max-width: 976px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-beb12949{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-beb12949 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-color: #006c5b;;}}@media only screen and (max-width: 767px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-beb12949{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-beb12949 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-color: #006c5b;;}}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-beb12949{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-beb12949 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;background-color: #006c5b;;}@media only screen and (max-width: 976px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-beb12949{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-beb12949 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-color: #006c5b;;}}@media only screen and (max-width: 767px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-beb12949{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-beb12949 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-beb12949{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-color: #006c5b;;}}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5096eaa1 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5096eaa1 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5096eaa1 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5096eaa1 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5096eaa1 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-5096eaa1{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-5096eaa1 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5096eaa1{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-color: inherit;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-89b3b7a8 .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-89b3b7a8 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-89b3b7a8 .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-89b3b7a8 .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-89b3b7a8 .uagb-container__video-wrap video{opacity: 1;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-89b3b7a8{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-89b3b7a8 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1320px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-direction: column;align-items: center;justify-content: center;flex-wrap: nowrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-89b3b7a8{box-shadow: 0px 0px   #00000070 ;padding-top: 2em;padding-bottom: 2em;padding-left: 2em;padding-right: 2em;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;overflow: visible;order: initial;border-top-left-radius: 30px;border-top-right-radius: 30px;border-bottom-left-radius: 30px;border-bottom-right-radius: 30px;border-color: inherit;background-color: #ebebeb;;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-97ee3d2f.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-desc-text{margin-bottom: 15px;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-97ee3d2f.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight{font-style: normal;font-weight: Default;background: #007cba;color: #fff;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-97ee3d2f.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight::-moz-selection{color: #fff;background: #007cba;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading.uagb-block-97ee3d2f.wp-block-uagb-advanced-heading .uagb-highlight::selection{color: #fff;background: #007cba;-webkit-text-fill-color: #fff;}.uagb-block-232092dc.wp-block-uagb-buttons.uagb-buttons__outer-wrap .uagb-buttons__wrap {gap: 10px;}.uagb-block-232092dc.uagb-buttons__outer-wrap .uagb-buttons__wrap {justify-content: left;align-items: center;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611.wp-block-uagb-buttons-child .uagb-buttons-repeater{background: #f3bd48;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .wp-block-button__link{background: #f3bd48;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .wp-block-button__link:hover{background: #f4deaa;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .wp-block-button__link:focus{background: #f4deaa;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-button__wrapper .uagb-buttons-repeater{color: #25282a;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .wp-block-button__link.has-text-color:hover .uagb-button__link{color: #25282a;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .wp-block-button__link.has-text-color:focus .uagb-button__link{color: #25282a;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-button__wrapper  .uagb-buttons-repeater.wp-block-button__link{box-shadow: 0px 0px 0 #00000026;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-button__wrapper  .uagb-buttons-repeater.wp-block-button__link:hover{box-shadow: 0px 0px 0 #00000026;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-buttons-repeater.wp-block-button__link{border-color: #333;border-style: none;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-buttons-repeater.wp-block-button__link:hover{border-color: #333;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-buttons-repeater.wp-block-button__link:focus{border-color: #333;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611.wp-block-button.is-style-outline .uagb-button__wrapper .wp-block-button__link.uagb-buttons-repeater{border-color: #333;border-style: none;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611.wp-block-button.is-style-outline .uagb-button__wrapper .wp-block-button__link.uagb-buttons-repeater:hover{border-color: #333;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-buttons-repeater .uagb-button__link{color: #25282a;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-buttons-repeater:hover .uagb-button__link{color: #25282a;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-buttons-repeater:focus .uagb-button__link{color: #25282a;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-buttons-repeater .uagb-button__icon > svg{width: 15px;height: 15px;fill: #25282a;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-buttons-repeater:hover .uagb-button__icon > svg{fill: #25282a;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-buttons-repeater:focus .uagb-button__icon > svg{fill: #25282a;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-buttons-repeater .uagb-button__icon-position-after{margin-left: 8px;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-buttons-repeater .uagb-button__icon-position-before{margin-right: 8px;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-button__link{text-transform: normal;text-decoration: none;}@media only screen and (max-width: 976px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-5096eaa1{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-5096eaa1 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5096eaa1{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-89b3b7a8{width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-89b3b7a8 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 1024px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-89b3b7a8{padding-top: 2px;padding-bottom: 2px;padding-left: 2px;padding-right: 2px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-color: #ebebeb;;}.uagb-block-232092dc.uagb-buttons__outer-wrap .uagb-buttons__wrap {justify-content: center;align-items: center;}.uagb-block-232092dc.uagb-buttons__outer-wrap .uagb-buttons__wrap .wp-block-button{width: auto;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611.wp-block-button.is-style-outline .uagb-button__wrapper .wp-block-button__link.uagb-buttons-repeater{border-style: none;border-color: #333;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-buttons-repeater.wp-block-button__link{border-style: none;border-color: #333;}}@media only screen and (max-width: 767px) {.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-5096eaa1{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-5096eaa1 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-5096eaa1{margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container .uagb-block-89b3b7a8{max-width: 100%;width: 100%;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-is-root-container.alignfull.uagb-block-89b3b7a8 > .uagb-container-inner-blocks-wrap{--inner-content-custom-width: min( 100%, 767px);max-width: var(--inner-content-custom-width);width: 100%;flex-wrap: wrap;}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-89b3b7a8{padding-top: 2px;padding-bottom: 2px;padding-left: 2px;padding-right: 2px;margin-top:  !important;margin-bottom:  !important;order: initial;background-color: #ebebeb;;}.uagb-block-232092dc.uagb-buttons__outer-wrap .uagb-buttons__wrap {justify-content: center;align-items: center;}.uagb-block-232092dc.uagb-buttons__outer-wrap .uagb-buttons__wrap .wp-block-button{width: auto;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611.wp-block-button.is-style-outline .uagb-button__wrapper .wp-block-button__link.uagb-buttons-repeater{border-style: none;border-color: #333;}.wp-block-uagb-buttons .uagb-block-00708611 .uagb-buttons-repeater.wp-block-button__link{border-style: none;border-color: #333;}}\";s:2:\"js\";s:161:\"document.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\", function(){ window.addEventListener( 'load', function() {\n\tUAGBButtonChild.init( '.uagb-block-00708611' );\n});\n });\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776578615;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Today on the broadcast, Christian counselors and authors Ed Welch and Leslie Vernick point the weary and depressed to help and hope.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-07-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Author and counselor, Dr. Ed Welch, refers to depression as a \"stubborn darkness.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Woman:<\/strong>\u00a0 When you're in a depression, it is like being in a dark tunnel, and you don't see light; people will say things thinking they're helping you, and they're really not.\u00a0 They mean well, but they just don't understand, because they haven't walked through those waters that you're walking through.\u00a0 And it's a delicate issue, because there are different sides to depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Man:<\/strong>\u00a0 We went to this counselor, and after 30 minutes or an hour or whatever it was, he basically said, \"Every problem is a spiritual problem, and we need to find out what's wrong spiritually in your life, and then these other things will fall into place.\"\u00a0 And that was very, very discouraging for my wife and me because I simply felt hopeless.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just thought, \"Well, that may be true, maybe there is something in my life that is wrong and that's causing all this, but I sure don't know what it is, and I don't see any way that I can find out what it is, so this advice is of no use to me.\u201d\u00a0 I felt all alone in facing the problem, and it was another eight years before we went to counseling again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLifeToday<\/em> for Wednesday, July 13<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Is depression a spiritual issue?\u00a0 What kind of counsel can you give to someone who is depressed?\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk about that today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I'm sure all of us have been in situations where we wondered what's the right thing to say, what's the right way to come alongside another person?\u00a0 You see them suffering, you see them experiencing depression, you want to be there for them, you want to encourage them, and you're never sure if what you're going to say is going to encourage them or if it's going to send them into a downward spiral.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And if you need help in those situations, it's extremely beneficial to us if we have good coaches to be able to help us say the right things, and we've got a couple of them in the studio with us \u2013 Leslie Vernick and Dr. Ed Welch join us again on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Ed, Leslie, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Both have written books about the subject of depression, and, Ed, I want to feature your book here for just a moment \u2013 <em>Depression: A Stubborn Darkness, Light for the Path.<\/em>\u00a0 Toward the end of the book, you give a list of statements about what was not helpful and what was helpful to people who really grappled with depression.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI found these lists \u2013 especially, just listening to what was said here moments ago \u2013 to be meaningful, especially starting with the list, \"It Was Not Helpful When.\" The first one is when \"I looked for superficial sins in my life.\"\u00a0 You're saying when people look for superficial sin that didn't provide a solution for them, it wasn't helpful at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 It doesn't sound very spiritual, does it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, it doesn't.\u00a0 You'd think you'd be pointing people in that direction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 When you're depressed you will look for anything that could unlock your depression and make you feel better, and you're going to eventually start saying, \"Well, maybe there are certain sins in my life that have caused this,\" and you're going to say, \"Well, what am I doing wrong,\" and you're going to look for ways you're treating your children and things like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's important to look at those things, but, this is ultimately unavoidable.\u00a0 The nature of depression is like all suffering \u2013 it forces us to deal with the fact that we live before God at all times and in all ways.\u00a0 And if we're going to be looking at our hearts, it's the question, what is our heart?\u00a0 What are we seeing in our hearts, before God, about God?\u00a0 That would be the more profound question that we can be asking in the midst of depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0So you're distinguishing between superficial sins.\u00a0 Now, you said, you know, how you treat your children, and I'm thinking, \"Well, that may not be that superficial a sin.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re on FamilyLife radio \u2013 this is a very significant thing, absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But you're saying, let's dig even below the surface and get to why do you treat your children that way?\u00a0 It all comes back to what you believe about God and how you relate to Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 All sin is ultimately against God, and that's where we want to go.\u00a0 This is not to say, of course, that depression means that it's a consequence of sin against God.\u00a0 But the depression and all suffering, it just \u2013 C.S. Lewis says, it's this megaphone, it's God's megaphone that calls our attention more to issues in our relationship with God that we would not attend to in any other way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think it really reveals our lack of awareness of God's purposes and our lack of awareness or belief in God's character \u2013 suffering does \u2013 because when things are going well, we sort of think of God's goodness and think of God's character as wonderful and loving and good.\u00a0 But when suffering is in our life, or in someone else's life, boy, we're not sure what God's up to, and we're not sure He's good, and so those are the things that come out of us in those moments.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus tells us it\u2019s out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks, and so when we start grumbling and complaining, we start questioning, or we start being confused or perplexed, it shows some things in our relationship with God.\u00a0 Either we don't know him as he is or we don't believe what he says about himself, that we don't understand his ways, and God pretty much tells us we won't. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it's that wrestling with that in the midst of suffering or depression that really takes its toll on us and sometimes we go down for the count, and that's where we need other people to come up alongside of us and help wrestle with us, because sometimes we can't see, and we don't have perspective.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 It takes us back to that original question in the garden, \"Is God good?\u00a0 Is he really good?\" If you are accustomed to looking at God with your naked eye and trying to find evidence of his goodness around you in the health of children, and an intact marriage, whatever it might be, if you're accustomed to really focusing on those things, when suffering comes we are not equipped to seeing the goodness of God, because it seems like the difficulty in our life outweighs anything else in the world that can counterbalance that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I think that ultimately it has to be the cross of Christ that finally proves the goodness of God in the midst of suffering.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, if we're accustomed to looking at the character of God through life's circumstances, then it will always cloud our picture, and when it's good, we see it good, but when it's bad, we see it bad.\u00a0 So it's very important to move life's circumstances out of the way.\u00a0 It doesn't mean that they're not there, but that we look at God as he is and as he says he is.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr if we can't see him, we have other people help us see God as he is, and then we can look at our life and look at our suffering and look at our situation very differently.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 As we mentioned before, suffering can be a megaphone to get us to listen to God.\u00a0 Sometimes the megaphone, however, can be borrowed from the Christian community and begin to shout certain things to us that aren't good, like people who maybe want to point out sin in our lives where we've made a mistake; people who offer trite religious-sounding answers about your depression.\u00a0 \u201cJust trust God.\u201d\u00a0 You know, \u201cJust move on past your feelings and trust God.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, certainly, Job's friends were much like that, and I think we sort of like a world where everything is easy to figure out.\u00a0 So if we can say, \"Well, you suffer because of this reason,\u201d then we can avoid those reasons and not suffer ourselves.\u00a0 So we sort of like black and white simplistic answers to things and Job's friends said, \"Job, you must be suffering because you've done something really wrong,\" and that was their way of looking at things.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe sort of scoff at Job's friends, but we say the same thing to our friends these days when we say, \"You know, if you didn't do this, you wouldn't be depressed,\" or \"If you didn't have this,\" and so we have these simplistic answers to life's complicated questions, and it's not so simple.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Things like \u2013 and this is a part of the list you've got in your book \u2013 \"You need to love yourself more,\" or \"You need to lower your expectations for life,\" or \"You have a right to be angry.\"\u00a0 All of those are not helpful things to say, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly, and as Leslie was pointing out, if we've been around the block long enough, we have all experienced the unhelpful things that people have said.\u00a0 We've also said the unhelpful things, so we've been on both ends.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, let's talk about how to turn the megaphone around, then, and truly help people deal with their depression and as they struggle with it perhaps find some help in the midst of it.\u00a0 You have a list here of 20 things that people express.\u00a0 They said that when these things occurred, they felt like they were getting help, things began to change.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, these are things that I've just gleaned from other people.\u00a0 If I could read a preamble to those things, which I think is helpful; this is just a comment from my book: \"Depression is a form of suffering that can't be reduced to one universal cause.\u00a0 This means that family and friends can't rush in armed with the answer.\u00a0 Instead, they must be willing to postpone swearing allegiance to a particular theory, take time to know the depressed person, and work together.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Your list of things that people did find helpful include things like realizing I'm in the middle of a battle and deciding I'm going to fight, or forcing myself to read Scripture and listening to what it said.\u00a0 One of them that's interesting here is medication \u2013 number 13.\u00a0 People said medication is one of those things I found helpful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, when we had you on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> before, the subject of medication came up as a part of our conversation, and we got a lot of mail about this whole subject, because this is controversial, and it's something that \u2013 well, I just want to give you a chance to kind of revisit this subject and see if we can clarify it for folks.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat's your view on the appropriateness \u2013 I want both of you to comment on this \u2013 the appropriateness of the use of medication if somebody is experiencing depression?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Medication, right off the bat, I think we can say from Scripture, is not a moral issue; that is, it's right to do it or it's wrong to do it.\u00a0 The category would be more the category of wisdom.\u00a0 What is wise to do?\u00a0 And as you go through the Proverbs, you go through James, you go through wisdom literature, and part of wisdom is you study.\u00a0 You ask questions.\u00a0 You learn from people who have had experience on this.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd it seems to me that's what most people do when they think about medication.\u00a0 They do their homework, they ask physicians, they ask people who have been helped by it, they perhaps ask people who have not been helped by it. So medication is an issue of wisdom.\u00a0 That would be one way the Scripture approaches it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tScripture also, I believe, leads us to say that if we can alleviate suffering in a person's life, it is a good thing to be able to alleviate suffering.\u00a0 So in that sense, if a person's suffering is alleviated in some way by medication then we are ecstatic.\u00a0 We are absolutely delighted, with them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe only qualifications \u2013 not the only qualifications \u2013 Leslie may have a number of other comments to say, but one qualification would be this \u2013 you don't put your hope in medication.\u00a0 Medication will not give you purpose, it will not give you a deeper love for Christ, it won't give you a deeper love for other people.\u00a0 There are limitations to what medication can do.\u00a0 It's a physical treatment for some of the physical experiences of depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think I would agree with Ed in everything he said.\u00a0 Medication is a wonderful blessing for some people.\u00a0 The only caveat I would have is that medication doesn't cure depression; medication alleviates some of the symptoms of depression, which, again, can be a great blessing.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don't think there's anything in Scripture that says that we can't use some things for medicinal purposes to alleviate suffering.\u00a0 Certainly, there was a balm in Gilead, wine was taken for stomach's sake, and so there's times when medicines can be very helpful and alleviate suffering.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHowever, I think it's important in addition to taking medicine, if someone chooses that route and thinks that that's a wise thing to do, that they also do the rest of the homework inside their heart and understand what suffering has shown them about the patterns they have in the way they think or the way they see God; the way they relate to others or don't; the way they handle conflict or aren't honest with themselves because depression exposes some of those things in Technicolor, and if you just relieve yourself of the symptoms of those but don't actually do the work that might help you to get better, not just feel better, I think you're robbing yourself of the opportunity to grow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And that's where I'm wondering \u2013 if medication helps you turn down the volume of suffering, and if the Scripture says that suffering can be one of the things that we should embrace as a part of the Christian life, are we turning down the volume on something that God wants to use to sanctify us?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you know, when I have a headache, I don't really think about it that way.\u00a0 I certainly just pop a couple of aspirins, and I'm happy to feel better.\u00a0 And if God wants me to continue to suffer, I certainly will continue to suffer.\u00a0 So I sort of leave that to the sovereignty of God.\u00a0 I think that sometimes we can, in our wisdom, take measures to counteract our suffering.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if I had repetitive headaches or medicine didn't alleviate all of the headaches because I was constantly running myself ragged, not getting enough sleep, not taking care of the stress in my life, I think I would need to address other issues as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMedication doesn't usually make someone feel 100 percent better.\u00a0 It takes some of the edge off, especially physically so that they can begin to think again, they can sleep again, they can have their appetite again.\u00a0 In that way it helps them to do some of the other work that we're talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, what I hear us saying and what I personally believe is that it's not a matter of just taking a pill and finding a solution.\u00a0 That may help you deal with some symptoms or some problems that drag you down and take you deeper into a hole.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat must be addressed are the needs of the soul, and that can only be addressed as a person gets rightly related to God through Jesus Christ and coming to grips with what the Bible has to say about him or her and that person's life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, as you bring that up, though, I remember some of the feedback we got the last time we touched on this subject.\u00a0 People who said, \"So you're saying my depression is a spiritual problem.\u00a0 I have a spiritual problem.\u00a0 It's not a medical problem, it's a spiritual problem.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, even if it's a medical problem, a medical problem has spiritual components.\u00a0 My brother was diagnosed with coronary artery disease a couple of years ago, and he had a wise doctor, because he needed a medical procedure just like a person who is depressed may need some antidepressants.\u00a0 He needed some stents inserted in his arteries.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut in addition to that, the doctor said, \"You know what?\u00a0 Tell me about your lifestyle.\u00a0 How do you handle stress?\u00a0 What's going on in your interpersonal life?\u00a0 Are you angry?\u00a0 Are you a smoker?\u00a0 Do you exercise?\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so he knew, as a wise doctor would, that in order to prevent further episodes of coronary artery disease, he also needed to look at this person's overall lifestyle \u2013 his ways of thinking, his ways of relating, his spiritual perspective, did he have a purpose to life?\u00a0 Because all of those factors go into someone getting sick as well as someone getting well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so even with a medical problem, there are spiritual components, and with spiritual problems there's physical components.\u00a0 We don't always know which comes first, and that's why it's important for a person who is experiencing depression to understand that we need to handle both parts \u2013 the physical, emotional, spiritual, and relational.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Leslie, we can perhaps even say it more strongly than that \u2013 we could say that medical problems are always spiritual problems.\u00a0 Which isn't to say that they're always caused by spiritual problems, but if somebody is diagnosed with cancer, that is always a spiritual problem.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPastors and friends go and visit in hospital because they know there are all kinds of spiritual issues that are aroused by especially chronic and debilitating medical disease.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We're not saying the cancer was necessarily caused by a spiritual problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 But it at least raises questions about who is God and how do I trust him in the midst of even this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So with depression can we say, \"I really am not responsible for being depressed.\u00a0 This is a physiological issue that's causing this.\"\u00a0 Or must we say, \"No, you bear some responsibility for what you're experiencing?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 In one sense, the Scripture doesn't force us to make a decision on that.\u00a0 If we're suffering, it is certainly a time when we can think about \"How can I alleviate the suffering?\"\u00a0 But suffering is always that occasion to go to the Lord and say, \"Lord, search me.\u00a0 Lord, grant me a faith that I didn't have before because I need more grace to go through this particular difficulty.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 And there may be some \u2013 even for someone who has coronary artery disease or cancer, they may have to bear some responsibility for allowing themselves to get in that place to begin with.\u00a0 I mean, my mother had lung cancer because she was a smoker.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, does that help her to say, \"Oh, Mom, you got lung cancer because you're a smoker.\u00a0 Shame on you.\"\u00a0 No, it didn't help her at all.\u00a0 So she had to stop smoking, she had to change her lifestyle.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf someone has coronary artery disease because they're a smoker or they don't exercise or they eat high cholesterol food, they may need to make some changes in their lifestyle, which is a good thing, to take responsibility for things that you need to do differently so that you begin to get better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Bob, I want to go back to your first question, and I can't restate it perfectly, but you were saying basically do we have a spiritual problem, and the answer is yes.\u00a0 Every person has a spiritual problem, whether you're dealing with depression, whether you're dealing with anger.\u00a0 You name the issue in your life.\u00a0 Cut through all the descriptive phrases.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to put a label on everything today, but you know what?\u00a0 We move past all the labels to the human soul, and what the Bible teaches is that we are spiritual beings who have needs in our soul that can only be addressed by the Lord God Almighty, who stepped out of eternity to forgive our sins and to bring us into a right relationship.\u00a0 When you deny that, if you deny him, I think you're going to get depressed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, one of the other things that you point out that people have said was helpful \u2013 one person said, \"I had a friend who didn't give up on me.\u00a0 She was always loving me, pointing out the truth even when I didn't want to hear about Jesus.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJust somebody, again, I think, and we talked about this earlier \u2013 I think of John Newton never giving up on William Cooper, his friend in the ministry.\u00a0 And I can imagine there were days when Cooper was coming over to Newton's house, and Newton just went, \"Oh, lock the door. I do not want to spend the afternoon with depressed William Cooper.\"\u00a0 And yet he opened the door, and he ministered to him.\u00a0 That's heroic, too, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>We are asking something very difficult of a depressed person \u2013 we're asking them to persevere.\u00a0 But what we don't realize is that we have that same call in our own life as we walk along with them.\u00a0 Love, in and of itself, is not the cure, but every depressed person that I've ever met would say that it made a huge difference for them, and that pastoral, persistent love, even when the depressed person is essentially saying \"Stay away, I'm not worth it.\u00a0 I'm not worth the effort,\" but a person just has that persistent love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, that one quote was by a woman who \u2013 her friend was in bed, and what she did was she just went over to her house, put her pajamas on, and jumped in bed with her.\u00a0 She said, \"Okay, if you're going to be in bed, alright, I'm going to be with you.\u00a0 Wherever you are, I'm going to be with you, and I have two hours this morning, and I'll be in bed with you.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 And what that does for the depressed person is it incarnates Christ to them.\u00a0 You see \u2013 when you're in depression you can't see Jesus.\u00a0 You can't experience Him.\u00a0 The psalmist says, \"You're so far away from me, where are you?\"\u00a0 And we are to be the body of Christ to one another.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo when we are patient and loving and kind and persevering and truthful, we show them the hands and arms and feet of Christ, and they can begin, then, to see God's character as it's embodied in our lives.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd, likewise, when we're impatient, and we give up, and we are critical, they also can say, \"Well, this is how you feel, and God must feel that way, too.\"\u00a0 Unfortunately, they can put that spin on it.\u00a0 So it's really important that we don't ask them to do something that we're not doing ourselves.\u00a0 We're asking them to persevere, yet we don't want to persevere.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, exactly, and sometimes it's not what we say, it's that we listen and just listen attentively again and again and again, and then without saying a lot, reach out and touch them.\u00a0 Just let them know that they're cared for, and you love them.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don't know if at the end of my mom's life if she was depressed or not.\u00a0 She was dying of Alzheimer's, but I remember many times being seated beside her bed as she died, and she would look away to the window where there was snow falling outside, and she would all of a sudden turn back just to see if I was there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don't know if Alzheimer's had robbed her of her memory that I could still be there while she was looking out the window, but she just would turn back around, and it was what moved me, at a point, to just take hold of my mom's frail hand, where you could almost see the bones in her hand, because her skin was so thin, and just held her hand there as she struggled with the disease, you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that's what we're talking about here.\u00a0 People need other people to love them, to speak to them about the Scriptures and the truth about God, the truth about them, but also to listen and be close to them and just to be there for them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 You don't have to be an expert to have a profound effect on another person's life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, you don't.\u00a0 Just love them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Ed has written a book called <em>Depression: A Stubborn Darkness, Light for the Path<\/em>.\u00a0 Leslie's book is called <em>Defeating Depression,<\/em> and we\u2019ve got both of the books in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 Great books for you to read if you know someone, a friend or a family member, who wrestles with depression and you want to come alongside and help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on both of these books, the one by Ed Welch and one by Leslie Vernick.\u00a0 Again our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329, that\u2019s 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.\u00a0 When you get in touch with us we\u2019ll let you know how you can get a copy of Ed\u2019s book, <em>Depression: A Stubborn Darkness<\/em> or Leslie\u2019s book, <em>Defeating Depression,<\/em> sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow I know this issue of depression that we\u2019ve been talking about this week is one of those issues that can cause people to pull back and say, \u201cHow can there be a God when there is this kind of pain, this kind of suffering in somebody\u2019s life?\u201d\u00a0 Our friend, Randy Alcorn, has addressed that subject in a 64-page booklet that we want to make available to you at no cost.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a booklet called <em>If God is Good, Why Do We Hurt?<\/em>\u00a0 This week again we\u2019re making that booklet available.\u00a0 All you have to do is call or go to our website to request a copy.\u00a0 If you\u2019re a new listener to <em>FamilyLife Today,<\/em> again the website, FamilyLifeToday.com, stop by and just give us your name and some information, and we\u2019ll send a copy of Randy\u2019s booklet out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr call 1-800-FLTODAY; ask for your free copy of the book <em>If God is Good, Why Do I Hurt?<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Again, we\u2019ll send it out to you.\u00a0 We hope you\u2019ll find it helpful, and we just want to say we appreciate you listening to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Nice to have you tuned in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you\u2019ll tune in again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about whether there is any real genuine hope you can present to a person who is experiencing depression.\u00a0 We\u2019ll have that conversation tomorrow, and I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302308","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302308"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302308"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302308"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302308"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302308"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302308"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302308"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}