{"id":302304,"date":"2011-07-11T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2011-07-11T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/what-is-depression\/"},"modified":"2011-07-11T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2011-07-11T15:00:00","slug":"what-is-depression","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-is-depression\/","title":{"rendered":"What is Depression?"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Depression feels terrifying, dark, numb, heavy, and painful.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-07-11.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"21.54M","filesize_raw":"22582559","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2846],"tags":[4008,4009,2607],"podcast_series":[7444],"cwp_profile":[9004,3229],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302304","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-depression","tag-anxiety","tag-depression","tag-stress","podcast_series-depression-a-stubborn-darkness","cwp_profile-ed-welch","cwp_profile-leslie-vernick","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302304\/what-is-depression","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302304\/what-is-depression","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"zOa7r6wJ0Y\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-is-depression\/\">What is Depression?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-is-depression\/embed\/#?secret=zOa7r6wJ0Y\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;What is Depression?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"zOa7r6wJ0Y\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-07-11.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-07-11.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Alan is a man in his 50s.\u00a0 He is very bright, very talented, a good \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0husband, a good father, and he has dealt for many years with depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think depression is such a difficult emotion or condition because you do lose perspective; and there's a feeling of hopelessness and despondency \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tthat, \"This is never going to get better.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou have this rational part of your mind that you're trying to tell yourself something so that you won't feel this way, and nothing works.\u00a0 When I'm depressed, the glass is not even close to half empty.\u00a0 It's 99-percent empty.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, July 11th.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey; and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 What do you do if it feels like the emotional cup of your life is drained dry?\u00a0 How do you respond to depression?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us on the Monday edition.\u00a0 I can imagine there are a lot of our listeners who just moved closer to the radio, turned it up, and are paying careful attention because what they just heard described, they either go, \"That's me,\" or \"I know someone like that\"\u2014someone who is in the throes of depression and may have been there for an extended period of time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, Bob, one of the problems with depression is we don't know how to address it from a Christian perspective.\u00a0 Some people label it \"sin of the soul,\" and they just want to put a blanket statement around it.\u00a0 Others just want to say it's a medical problem and it doesn't relate to our spiritual condition.\u00a0 What's the Christian community supposed to think, and how is it supposed to act toward those people who struggle with depression?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the broadcasts this week, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, are going to be very encouraging and instructive as to how individuals can cope with depression in their own lives but also know better how to live with those who also struggle with it.\u00a0 We have a couple of professionals here in the studio that join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014Dr. Ed Welch and Leslie Vernick.\u00a0 Welcome to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Leslie is a licensed clinical social worker from Pennsylvania.\u00a0 She has written a book called <em>Getting Over the Blues: A Woman's Guide to Fighting Depression<\/em>.\u00a0 Leslie, I really enjoyed your book.\u00a0 I felt like it was a warm, practical, heart-to-heart conversation of a woman who had a story to share with other women and really desired to bring a biblical perspective to this all-important subject.\u00a0 I really appreciate your writing the book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\u00a0 I really enjoyed writing it.\u00a0 I just sensed God needed to use me to say some things to other women, and I certainly have had to learn these lessons myself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it was a great book.\u00a0 Dr. Ed Welch is no stranger to our listeners.\u00a0 He has been on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> before.\u00a0 He is a counselor and director of the School of Biblical Counseling at Christian Counseling and Education Foundation; also a professor at Westminster Theological Seminary; and he has written a book on depression, as well, called <em>Depression:<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>A Stubborn Darkness, Light for the Path<\/em>.\u00a0 Ed, I really enjoyed your book, as well.\u00a0 I felt like it was a great biblical look at depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet's define depression.\u00a0 Ed, how would you put a working laymen's definition to this subject?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let me put images on it, even though that's not the technical definition.\u00a0 Images capture it for people\u2014\u201cemptiness\" is one of the things you're going to hear.\u00a0 \u201cWeight\" is another thing you're going to hear\u2014people simply feel weighted down.\u00a0 They actually feel like they weigh more than they did before.\u00a0 Something is just pulling them down to the ground in a way they've never been pulled down before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think another feature of it is this \u201cdarkness;\u201d and you heard it, I think, in one of the excerpts before the show began\u2014this sense of being in a tunnel, enclosed in this tunnel with darkness all around.\u00a0 Those are some of the images that you hear over and over when people describe the experience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And it's not a single experience.\u00a0 There are kind of levels.\u00a0 Here is one woman who says the difference between sadness and depression is duration; and yet there are levels of melancholy, if you will.\u00a0 Some people can't get out of bed and other people just kind of drag around during the day.\u00a0 Leslie, is there a way to diagnose and say, \"Oh, you've got medium depression, and she's got extreme depression?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, yes, there is; and unfortunately there's no blood test.\u00a0 A lot of people say, \"I have a chemical imbalance;\" but there is no blood test to determine whether you're depressed or not.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are some things that people would look at\u2014some symptoms\u2014physical symptoms like low energy; lack of sleep; a restless spirit; emotional symptoms like feeling sad or down, worthless, feeling no joy in life, an emptiness, a \u201clostness,\u201d a darkness.\u00a0 Mental symptoms\u2014you can't think; you can't concentrate; you can't make decisions.\u00a0 Spiritual symptoms\u2014you feel guilty; you feel like God's abandoned you; you don't find yourself experiencing any joy of the Lord like you used to.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose would be some of the symptoms, and all of us experience some of these symptoms some of the time.\u00a0 It doesn't mean you're depressed; it might mean that you're having a bad day or a depressed mood.\u00a0 The difference between a depressed mood, or a depressed day, and depression is the severity of the symptoms and the length of time.\u00a0 Someone who is experiencing these symptoms without a break for longer than two weeks would be considered, then, moving into a major depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, I've experienced times when I've gotten discouraged\u2014 circumstances; something somebody has said to me; maybe some of the behavior of my children when we were in the childrearing years; but everybody gets discouraged, Ed.\u00a0 Does everybody get depressed, or are there some people who literally do not know what we're talking about when we're talking about depression\u2014they've never experienced it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are fewer and fewer people who don't know.\u00a0 The statistics go somewhere around 25 percent of the population who are going to experience it at one time or another, which means you're going to experience it or you're going to be living closely with somebody who does experience it.\u00a0 It should sound more and more familiar to the vast majority of your listeners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, statistics show that women are twice as vulnerable to depression than men and, also, about one in five women will experience major depression in her lifetime.\u00a0 Right now, it's considered the No. 1 disability in women.\u00a0 It's very prevalent; and it's very important that we, as Christians, recognize that we have that struggle and that we're going to know someone who has the struggle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, what do you think is up with that?\u00a0 Why is it that women would be more likely\u2014two to one\u2014to experience depression?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, there are a lot of theories about it.\u00a0 One is that women have different hormones than men do; women have different ways of processing stress than men do.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of my theories, and I think it supports it by some research, is that women are more closely in touch with their relationship needs and their relationship vulnerabilities.\u00a0 God says we're all relational beings, but women especially get their self-esteem, their self-worth, through their interpersonal connections.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLosses, stresses, and conflicts in relationships, or the lack of meaningful relationships, I think, affect women and their sense of self and their core identity more than it might a man, where he might pour himself into his work or his career.\u00a0 For women\u2014disruptions in her relationships affect her more deeply; and I think that makes her more vulnerable to depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ed, there is this increase in the incidence of depression among the population; and I know it's one of the things you've talked about in your book.\u00a0 You see some reasons why you think there's more and more depression in our culture in our age today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 People have speculated on and on.\u00a0 I think one of the most interesting comments\u2014observations\u2014this is a person who is not a Christian and has no religious intent whatsoever.\u00a0 He suggests that one reason there is more depression is because we live in a generation where there is nothing larger than ourselves.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is no national purpose; there is no family, essentially.\u00a0 The family has been fragmented, and there is nothing bigger than ourselves to rely on.\u00a0 He goes on to suggest that we just were not intended to rely exclusively on the self.\u00a0 The self is not able to handle the freight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We've turned inward more and more as a culture, and as a generation; and as a result, we've been disappointed more and more.\u00a0 We're discouraged and disappointed with ourselves.\u00a0 Is that what you're saying?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 We're on the heels of a few decades where people have tried to find some sort of identity within.\u00a0 They've tried to somehow pump themselves up so they can feel better and have some kind of worth.\u00a0 What we're finding is we're moving out of that stage where people are saying, \"It didn't work.\"\u00a0 They don't know what is available; but they're saying, \"It didn't work.\"\u00a0 We have to find someplace to put our hope, someplace to find purpose outside of ourselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 That reminds me of the two greatest commandments that God gives us.\u00a0 They have to do with connection\u2014that we should be rightly-related to God.\u00a0 We should love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength; and we should love others as much as ourselves and as God has loved us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are commanded to be in relationship and be in connection.\u00a0 That reminds me of an old Jewish proverb that says, \"Sticks in the bundle are not easily broken, but sticks alone can be broken by a child.\"\u00a0 When we're trying to live these independent, autonomous lives and finding self-satisfaction and self-fulfillment in self, we are easily broken because that's not how God intended it to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Is there a No. 1 cause of depression, generally speaking?\u00a0 Specifically, I'm curious about women.\u00a0 You said women are twice as likely to experience depression as men.\u00a0 Would either one of you care to weigh in on that subject?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I would prefer to not think that there's a No. 1 cause.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 That doesn't answer your question; but what I want to do with somebody who is struggling with depression is, I want to listen as well as I possibly can.\u00a0 I want to remove any stereotypes, as many theories, as possible.\u00a0 I simply want to hear that person because every depression, even though you gather 100 people together and talk about their depression and the experience would be very similar, the roots of it, I think, are very unique.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 But there are some common themes.\u00a0 I think it would be dangerous to say that there's one root cause, but there are some common themes.\u00a0 Physical themes would be\u2014you know\u2014certainly there's a physical component.\u00a0 Your body is an important part of who you are.\u00a0 When either we don't take care of our body so that it's run down, fatigued, or vulnerable; or just because of the fall, our bodies are imperfect.\u00a0 Genetics, family history\u2014all those kinds of things play a part in a person getting depressed.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso, there is the theme of our heart.\u00a0 God\u2019s Word talks about how we process things, how we think in our heart, how we interpret life.\u00a0 When we interpret it consistently with a negative slant, or we interpret it with a slant toward self-pity or bitterness, we can be more vulnerable to depression.\u00a0\u00a0 Then there's life.\u00a0 Life is hard.\u00a0 There are stressors and losses in life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, both of you talk about loss.\u00a0 Can you often trace depression back to some sense of profound loss?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it's a good question to ask.\u00a0 I was reading a book the other day; and it started off by saying, \"There is so much wanting out there.\"\u00a0 That is a fine question to ask:\u00a0 \"What is it that I want that I haven't gotten?\u00a0 What is it that I want that I've lost?\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is not necessarily going to drive us directly to the cause of depression, but it's a question that human beings should be asking themselves fairly consistently.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, you think about it, as a culture we want more\u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>than, maybe, any generation that's ever been alive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, there's more available to us\u2014more choices, more option\u2014so it stirs more wanting than we've ever had.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>And our expectations are sky high.\u00a0 When expectations aren't met, what do you call that?\u00a0 Disappointment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Right, and loss is common.\u00a0 It is not usually a catastrophic loss for most people.\u00a0 It might be a very small loss or something that we wouldn't even consider a loss\u2014a loss of self-esteem; a loss of self-respect; being humiliated might be major for someone; a loss of a job; or loss of a pet.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I tell the story in my book about Elijah's loss.\u00a0 We don't often look at Elijah's loss.\u00a0 We know Elijah got depressed, and we usually attribute it to physical fatigue as a result of a spiritual experience.\u00a0 Certainly, that played a component; but Elijah shifted slightly in what he expected and what he wanted.\u00a0 What he wanted was Israel to repent.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor Christians, so often what we want is not bad things.\u00a0 We don't want sinful things.\u00a0 We want good things\u2014we want a good marriage; we want our child to repent; we want our children to love God with all of their heart; we want our mother to treat us well.\u00a0 We don't want bad things.\u00a0 We want to serve God; but when we don't get what we want, that is a loss.\u00a0 Elijah wanted Israel to repent.\u00a0 When he didn't get that\u2014when Ahab and Jezebel did not repent; Israel did not repent\u2014I think that contributed to his depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>And certainly those in the ministry are not excluded\u2026\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Not at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>...from depression.\u00a0 Okay, I'm going to perform a little poll here in the studio.\u00a0 There are four of us here.\u00a0 How many of us at the table have experienced depression at some level?\u00a0 Maybe it's not the chronic deep, deep depression but you have experienced depression at some level.\u00a0 Hold your hands up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Two out of four.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Two out of four.\u00a0 Ed, you said you hadn't.\u00a0 Bob you said you hadn't.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I raised my hand along with Leslie.\u00a0 Now, you just blew my entire illustration here because I thought all of us were going to have something to say about this.\u00a0 I guess Leslie and I are the only ones that can comment because what I was going to ask everybody to do was simply say, \"For you, what is the cause or what has moved you toward a depressed state in your life?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I don\u2019t think It\u2019s not that Ed and I have never had times of being discouraged, or feeling alienated, or looking at life and going, \u201cGee, things aren\u2019t working out the way we want to;\u201d but if you are talking about a prolonged period of \u201cfunk,\u201d...\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I didn\u2019t say prolonged.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, then I guess that\u2019s back to the difference between sadness and depression.\u00a0 I was differentiating that way because...\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>A depressed mood and depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 You said two weeks is kind of a bellwether; and I don\u2019t know that I have beyond two weeks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, if you hold to that strict definition...\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019d have to take your hand down, too?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I\u2019d have to take my hand down.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, this blows all your illustration.\u00a0 (laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It does. It does.\u00a0 That leaves only Leslie to be able to comment at this point.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think Bob is making a good point.\u00a0 That is one of the reasons I didn\u2019t raise my hand.\u00a0 I certainly have felt depressed in my life; but I know people who have felt depressed and the extreme nature of that\u2014the thoughts of death that go through their mind moment after moment\u2014I don\u2019t want to put myself in that category.\u00a0 It would somehow diminish the pain they have experienced.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Did you have a season, Leslie, where it was an extended, prolonged, depressed\u2014didn't want to get out of bed; didn't want to eat; all of those things?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It was, and it came after a severe loss in my life.\u00a0 I tell the story of my husband and I planned to adopt a child.\u00a0 We had one biological child, and we were planning to adopt another.\u00a0 Through a series of miracles that we thought God had arranged for us to do a private adoption with a woman, she betrayed us at the last minute and gave the child to someone else.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have to say that I did, in that season of time, experience a profound sense of loss and sadness; but I was also angry.\u00a0 I was very angry at the woman because she lied to us; but probably, if I was honest, and I am, I was angry at God.\u00a0 \"How dare He trick me,\" is how I put it.\u00a0 \u201cHe led me to believe that He was going to give me the desires of my heart, and then He deceived me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe experience exposed something in my heart that I was not aware of at the time.\u00a0 Now, I can look back and see it.\u00a0 At the time, I didn't see it.\u00a0 I was just buried by it.\u00a0 My relationship with God was rather superficial.\u00a0 I was in this relationship with Him for what He could give me.\u00a0 When He didn't give me what I thought I should get, what I thought I deserved after being so good as a Christian all those times that He was putting me through adversity.\u00a0\u00a0 \u201cHow dare He take that away from me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>And so what did you do?\u00a0 Did you literally crawl up in a ball and\u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I sort of just crawled up in a ball, and I gave up.\u00a0 I threw my Bible under my bed.\u00a0 I said, \"I'm done,\" and I just sort of just gave up for a while.\u00a0 I don't remember how long \"a while\" was.\u00a0 I didn't go to the doctor.\u00a0 Nobody had to drag me out of bed.\u00a0 I still functioned.\u00a0 I took care of my other child; but I lost a sense of purpose; I lost a sense of direction; I lost a sense of joy; I didn't have any reason to do what I was doing other than I had to take care of my child.\u00a0 I was just done.\u00a0 I was done with life.\u00a0 I think that, for me\u2014I tend to be a somewhat melancholy, glass-half-empty kind of person.\u00a0 I battle depressed moods regularly, but that was an experience of depression for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, then, help us out here because there are folks who are listening who are thinking, \"I don't know if I'm just melancholy and I battle bad moods from time to time or if I'm depressed and need something more than just, \u2018I'm in a bad mood from time to time.\u2019\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIs there a way to self-diagnose?\u00a0 Is there a way to ask yourself these questions and determine:\u00a0 \"This is more than just a bad mood, and you need someone to help you through it,\u201d or, \"This is just a bad mood, and it will pass\"?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, I think there are different kinds of depression, too.\u00a0 Dysthymia is a low-level depression that's with someone for longer than two years.\u00a0 How do they know whether that's just the way they are?\u00a0 Some women just say, \"I've always felt this way,\" or some men say, \"I've always felt this way,\" and don't realize that this is actually called depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that I'm not sure self-diagnosis is necessarily the right approach.\u00a0 I think what you need to do is recognize whether you're having a depressed mood or whether you're in a depression.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFirst of all, if you're not functioning, like Elijah wasn't, if you're not able to get up out of your bed, if you're not eating, if you're not sleeping, you need some medical attention.\u00a0 That would be the appropriate first step because you can't even hear anybody talking to you and you can't process anything if you're not sleeping and you're not eating.\u00a0 You can't think.\u00a0 That would be the first step.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>And you're not thinking right when you do think about God, about yourself, about life, and about the Scriptures.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Right, especially if you are not sleeping.\u00a0 It is really hard to process anything if you are up half the night, crying, if you are thinking of thoughts of suicide or those kinds of things.\u00a0 It is really important to get the proper diagnosis to make sure that you are not having another medical condition or that you might need some medication for the short-term.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Go to a medical doctor first. That is what you did.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That would be the first step.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Ed?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0I was going to say the Scripture doesn't seem to really focus on the magnitude of the depression.\u00a0 It seems to suggest more that when hardships come your way in whatever form they may take, and certainly depression is a profound form of hardship, hardships are a time when we are going to be spiritually vulnerable.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur hearts are going to be revealed in new ways.\u00a0 Questions about God are going to come screaming through our minds in the way they didn't in the past.\u00a0 Also, we're going to be spiritually vulnerable.\u00a0 It's as if Satan is just waiting for things like depression to knock on our door because we're already in the midst of depression, we're already saying, \"Lord, where are you?\u00a0 Do you hear us?\"\u00a0 Satan comes along and says, \"Yes, they're great questions, and maybe He really doesn't hear you.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tScripture doesn't necessarily say you have to be really depressed.\u00a0 It's just that sadness and hardships are always opportunities for us to consider, \u201cWhat does God say to us now?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Whether we're experiencing depression, like a clinical depression, or a major depression, or we're just in a depressed mood, I still have to practice this very same thing that I am teaching others to practice.\u00a0 When I'm having a bad day, I have to:\u00a0 listen to myself\u2014listen to what I'm telling myself\u2014listen to God\u2014and ask myself if I'm really believing Him.\u00a0 I have to do that in those moments, whether it's a mild bad day or whether I'm experiencing a more prolonged sense of loss and sadness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>This goes back to Dennis' vote, where, from this perspective, all of us struggle with depression\u2014every single human being struggles with depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 That's kind of where I was going with it because I think, at some level, whether or not you label it \"clinically\" depressed, we struggle with, as you said, the hardships of life that drag us down.\u00a0 They may discourage us, they may neutralize us, they may cause us to become inward-focused on self and begin to believe lies about God, about the Scripture, and the promises of the Bible, and about ourselves.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere's where the body of Christ comes in.\u00a0 If you're married to someone who is struggling with depression, one of the most important roles you can play in that person's life is to not enter into their unbelief about themselves and about who God is. If you have a family member, or if you're going through a period like that, we all need others in our lives who remind us of the truth.\u00a0 I'm going to keep going back to this, and we'll talk about it all week.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's the truth about God, it's the truth about the Scriptures\u2014what the Scriptures say about who we are, what our identity is, who we are to be, and that we do have value, we do have worth, and that there are some things about us that need to be dealt with.\u00a0 We don't always know what's taking place in our lives; and God may be trying to teach us a very, very important lesson through a time of hardship, a time of discouragement, or a time of depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0In the course of a conversation like this on the radio, obviously, we can't deal with all of the issues that come up around the subject of depression; but in the books that the two of you have written, people can dive deeper and find out more and get more help.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEd\u2019s book is called <em>Depression:<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>A Stubborn Darkness<\/em>.\u00a0 Leslie has written a book called <em>Defeating Depression<\/em>.\u00a0 We have both of these books in our FamilyLife TodayResource Center.\u00a0 In fact, if you would like to get the two books together, we will send along, at no additional cost, the CD audio of the conversation we are having this week on this subject.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFind out more when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014that is our website\u2014\u00a0 FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014again, the books are called <em>Depression:<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>A Stubborn Darkness<\/em> and <em>Defeating Depression<\/em>\u2014or call 1-800-FLTODAY\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 That is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cToday.\u201d\u00a0 You can ask about these books, and we will make arrangements to have either or both of them sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of the questions that comes up for many of us when we face situations like this, when we are dealing with things like depression or any kind of a trial or adversity is, \u201cHow can God be a good God and we still go through these prolonged seasons of difficulty and pain?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur friend, Randy Alcorn, has written a very helpful booklet, 64 pages, dealing with the subject, \u201cIf God Is Good, Why Do We Hurt?\u201d\u00a0 This week, we want to make a copy of that booklet available to you at no cost if that is an issue you are wrestling with.\u00a0 Perhaps you are a new listener to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>and this is an issue that has been a struggle for you.\u00a0 Contact us, either online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Request a copy of the booklet by Randy Alcorn, \u201cIf God Is Good, Why Do We Hurt?\u201d\u00a0 We will send it to you at no cost.\u00a0 Again, you can order online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about the biblical command for us to rejoice and the idea that joy is a fruit of the Spirit; and, \u201cHow does that fit in with the experience of depression in a Christian\u2019s life?\u201d\u00a0 We will talk about that tomorrow.\u00a0 Hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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feels terrifying, dark, numb, heavy, and painful.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-07-11.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Alan is a man in his 50s.\u00a0 He is very bright, very talented, a good \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0husband, a good father, and he has dealt for many years with depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think depression is such a difficult emotion or condition because you do lose perspective; and there's a feeling of hopelessness and despondency \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tthat, \"This is never going to get better.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou have this rational part of your mind that you're trying to tell yourself something so that you won't feel this way, and nothing works.\u00a0 When I'm depressed, the glass is not even close to half empty.\u00a0 It's 99-percent empty.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, July 11th.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey; and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 What do you do if it feels like the emotional cup of your life is drained dry?\u00a0 How do you respond to depression?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us on the Monday edition.\u00a0 I can imagine there are a lot of our listeners who just moved closer to the radio, turned it up, and are paying careful attention because what they just heard described, they either go, \"That's me,\" or \"I know someone like that\"\u2014someone who is in the throes of depression and may have been there for an extended period of time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, Bob, one of the problems with depression is we don't know how to address it from a Christian perspective.\u00a0 Some people label it \"sin of the soul,\" and they just want to put a blanket statement around it.\u00a0 Others just want to say it's a medical problem and it doesn't relate to our spiritual condition.\u00a0 What's the Christian community supposed to think, and how is it supposed to act toward those people who struggle with depression?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the broadcasts this week, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, are going to be very encouraging and instructive as to how individuals can cope with depression in their own lives but also know better how to live with those who also struggle with it.\u00a0 We have a couple of professionals here in the studio that join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014Dr. Ed Welch and Leslie Vernick.\u00a0 Welcome to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Leslie is a licensed clinical social worker from Pennsylvania.\u00a0 She has written a book called <em>Getting Over the Blues: A Woman's Guide to Fighting Depression<\/em>.\u00a0 Leslie, I really enjoyed your book.\u00a0 I felt like it was a warm, practical, heart-to-heart conversation of a woman who had a story to share with other women and really desired to bring a biblical perspective to this all-important subject.\u00a0 I really appreciate your writing the book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\u00a0 I really enjoyed writing it.\u00a0 I just sensed God needed to use me to say some things to other women, and I certainly have had to learn these lessons myself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it was a great book.\u00a0 Dr. Ed Welch is no stranger to our listeners.\u00a0 He has been on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> before.\u00a0 He is a counselor and director of the School of Biblical Counseling at Christian Counseling and Education Foundation; also a professor at Westminster Theological Seminary; and he has written a book on depression, as well, called <em>Depression:<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>A Stubborn Darkness, Light for the Path<\/em>.\u00a0 Ed, I really enjoyed your book, as well.\u00a0 I felt like it was a great biblical look at depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet's define depression.\u00a0 Ed, how would you put a working laymen's definition to this subject?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let me put images on it, even though that's not the technical definition.\u00a0 Images capture it for people\u2014\u201cemptiness\" is one of the things you're going to hear.\u00a0 \u201cWeight\" is another thing you're going to hear\u2014people simply feel weighted down.\u00a0 They actually feel like they weigh more than they did before.\u00a0 Something is just pulling them down to the ground in a way they've never been pulled down before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think another feature of it is this \u201cdarkness;\u201d and you heard it, I think, in one of the excerpts before the show began\u2014this sense of being in a tunnel, enclosed in this tunnel with darkness all around.\u00a0 Those are some of the images that you hear over and over when people describe the experience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And it's not a single experience.\u00a0 There are kind of levels.\u00a0 Here is one woman who says the difference between sadness and depression is duration; and yet there are levels of melancholy, if you will.\u00a0 Some people can't get out of bed and other people just kind of drag around during the day.\u00a0 Leslie, is there a way to diagnose and say, \"Oh, you've got medium depression, and she's got extreme depression?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, yes, there is; and unfortunately there's no blood test.\u00a0 A lot of people say, \"I have a chemical imbalance;\" but there is no blood test to determine whether you're depressed or not.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are some things that people would look at\u2014some symptoms\u2014physical symptoms like low energy; lack of sleep; a restless spirit; emotional symptoms like feeling sad or down, worthless, feeling no joy in life, an emptiness, a \u201clostness,\u201d a darkness.\u00a0 Mental symptoms\u2014you can't think; you can't concentrate; you can't make decisions.\u00a0 Spiritual symptoms\u2014you feel guilty; you feel like God's abandoned you; you don't find yourself experiencing any joy of the Lord like you used to.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose would be some of the symptoms, and all of us experience some of these symptoms some of the time.\u00a0 It doesn't mean you're depressed; it might mean that you're having a bad day or a depressed mood.\u00a0 The difference between a depressed mood, or a depressed day, and depression is the severity of the symptoms and the length of time.\u00a0 Someone who is experiencing these symptoms without a break for longer than two weeks would be considered, then, moving into a major depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, I've experienced times when I've gotten discouraged\u2014 circumstances; something somebody has said to me; maybe some of the behavior of my children when we were in the childrearing years; but everybody gets discouraged, Ed.\u00a0 Does everybody get depressed, or are there some people who literally do not know what we're talking about when we're talking about depression\u2014they've never experienced it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are fewer and fewer people who don't know.\u00a0 The statistics go somewhere around 25 percent of the population who are going to experience it at one time or another, which means you're going to experience it or you're going to be living closely with somebody who does experience it.\u00a0 It should sound more and more familiar to the vast majority of your listeners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, statistics show that women are twice as vulnerable to depression than men and, also, about one in five women will experience major depression in her lifetime.\u00a0 Right now, it's considered the No. 1 disability in women.\u00a0 It's very prevalent; and it's very important that we, as Christians, recognize that we have that struggle and that we're going to know someone who has the struggle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, what do you think is up with that?\u00a0 Why is it that women would be more likely\u2014two to one\u2014to experience depression?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, there are a lot of theories about it.\u00a0 One is that women have different hormones than men do; women have different ways of processing stress than men do.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of my theories, and I think it supports it by some research, is that women are more closely in touch with their relationship needs and their relationship vulnerabilities.\u00a0 God says we're all relational beings, but women especially get their self-esteem, their self-worth, through their interpersonal connections.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLosses, stresses, and conflicts in relationships, or the lack of meaningful relationships, I think, affect women and their sense of self and their core identity more than it might a man, where he might pour himself into his work or his career.\u00a0 For women\u2014disruptions in her relationships affect her more deeply; and I think that makes her more vulnerable to depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ed, there is this increase in the incidence of depression among the population; and I know it's one of the things you've talked about in your book.\u00a0 You see some reasons why you think there's more and more depression in our culture in our age today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 People have speculated on and on.\u00a0 I think one of the most interesting comments\u2014observations\u2014this is a person who is not a Christian and has no religious intent whatsoever.\u00a0 He suggests that one reason there is more depression is because we live in a generation where there is nothing larger than ourselves.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is no national purpose; there is no family, essentially.\u00a0 The family has been fragmented, and there is nothing bigger than ourselves to rely on.\u00a0 He goes on to suggest that we just were not intended to rely exclusively on the self.\u00a0 The self is not able to handle the freight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We've turned inward more and more as a culture, and as a generation; and as a result, we've been disappointed more and more.\u00a0 We're discouraged and disappointed with ourselves.\u00a0 Is that what you're saying?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 We're on the heels of a few decades where people have tried to find some sort of identity within.\u00a0 They've tried to somehow pump themselves up so they can feel better and have some kind of worth.\u00a0 What we're finding is we're moving out of that stage where people are saying, \"It didn't work.\"\u00a0 They don't know what is available; but they're saying, \"It didn't work.\"\u00a0 We have to find someplace to put our hope, someplace to find purpose outside of ourselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 That reminds me of the two greatest commandments that God gives us.\u00a0 They have to do with connection\u2014that we should be rightly-related to God.\u00a0 We should love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength; and we should love others as much as ourselves and as God has loved us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are commanded to be in relationship and be in connection.\u00a0 That reminds me of an old Jewish proverb that says, \"Sticks in the bundle are not easily broken, but sticks alone can be broken by a child.\"\u00a0 When we're trying to live these independent, autonomous lives and finding self-satisfaction and self-fulfillment in self, we are easily broken because that's not how God intended it to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Is there a No. 1 cause of depression, generally speaking?\u00a0 Specifically, I'm curious about women.\u00a0 You said women are twice as likely to experience depression as men.\u00a0 Would either one of you care to weigh in on that subject?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I would prefer to not think that there's a No. 1 cause.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 That doesn't answer your question; but what I want to do with somebody who is struggling with depression is, I want to listen as well as I possibly can.\u00a0 I want to remove any stereotypes, as many theories, as possible.\u00a0 I simply want to hear that person because every depression, even though you gather 100 people together and talk about their depression and the experience would be very similar, the roots of it, I think, are very unique.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong>\u00a0 But there are some common themes.\u00a0 I think it would be dangerous to say that there's one root cause, but there are some common themes.\u00a0 Physical themes would be\u2014you know\u2014certainly there's a physical component.\u00a0 Your body is an important part of who you are.\u00a0 When either we don't take care of our body so that it's run down, fatigued, or vulnerable; or just because of the fall, our bodies are imperfect.\u00a0 Genetics, family history\u2014all those kinds of things play a part in a person getting depressed.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso, there is the theme of our heart.\u00a0 God\u2019s Word talks about how we process things, how we think in our heart, how we interpret life.\u00a0 When we interpret it consistently with a negative slant, or we interpret it with a slant toward self-pity or bitterness, we can be more vulnerable to depression.\u00a0\u00a0 Then there's life.\u00a0 Life is hard.\u00a0 There are stressors and losses in life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, both of you talk about loss.\u00a0 Can you often trace depression back to some sense of profound loss?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it's a good question to ask.\u00a0 I was reading a book the other day; and it started off by saying, \"There is so much wanting out there.\"\u00a0 That is a fine question to ask:\u00a0 \"What is it that I want that I haven't gotten?\u00a0 What is it that I want that I've lost?\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is not necessarily going to drive us directly to the cause of depression, but it's a question that human beings should be asking themselves fairly consistently.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, you think about it, as a culture we want more\u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>than, maybe, any generation that's ever been alive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, there's more available to us\u2014more choices, more option\u2014so it stirs more wanting than we've ever had.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>And our expectations are sky high.\u00a0 When expectations aren't met, what do you call that?\u00a0 Disappointment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Right, and loss is common.\u00a0 It is not usually a catastrophic loss for most people.\u00a0 It might be a very small loss or something that we wouldn't even consider a loss\u2014a loss of self-esteem; a loss of self-respect; being humiliated might be major for someone; a loss of a job; or loss of a pet.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I tell the story in my book about Elijah's loss.\u00a0 We don't often look at Elijah's loss.\u00a0 We know Elijah got depressed, and we usually attribute it to physical fatigue as a result of a spiritual experience.\u00a0 Certainly, that played a component; but Elijah shifted slightly in what he expected and what he wanted.\u00a0 What he wanted was Israel to repent.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor Christians, so often what we want is not bad things.\u00a0 We don't want sinful things.\u00a0 We want good things\u2014we want a good marriage; we want our child to repent; we want our children to love God with all of their heart; we want our mother to treat us well.\u00a0 We don't want bad things.\u00a0 We want to serve God; but when we don't get what we want, that is a loss.\u00a0 Elijah wanted Israel to repent.\u00a0 When he didn't get that\u2014when Ahab and Jezebel did not repent; Israel did not repent\u2014I think that contributed to his depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>And certainly those in the ministry are not excluded\u2026\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Not at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>...from depression.\u00a0 Okay, I'm going to perform a little poll here in the studio.\u00a0 There are four of us here.\u00a0 How many of us at the table have experienced depression at some level?\u00a0 Maybe it's not the chronic deep, deep depression but you have experienced depression at some level.\u00a0 Hold your hands up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Two out of four.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Two out of four.\u00a0 Ed, you said you hadn't.\u00a0 Bob you said you hadn't.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I raised my hand along with Leslie.\u00a0 Now, you just blew my entire illustration here because I thought all of us were going to have something to say about this.\u00a0 I guess Leslie and I are the only ones that can comment because what I was going to ask everybody to do was simply say, \"For you, what is the cause or what has moved you toward a depressed state in your life?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I don\u2019t think It\u2019s not that Ed and I have never had times of being discouraged, or feeling alienated, or looking at life and going, \u201cGee, things aren\u2019t working out the way we want to;\u201d but if you are talking about a prolonged period of \u201cfunk,\u201d...\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I didn\u2019t say prolonged.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, then I guess that\u2019s back to the difference between sadness and depression.\u00a0 I was differentiating that way because...\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>A depressed mood and depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 You said two weeks is kind of a bellwether; and I don\u2019t know that I have beyond two weeks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, if you hold to that strict definition...\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019d have to take your hand down, too?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I\u2019d have to take my hand down.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, this blows all your illustration.\u00a0 (laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It does. It does.\u00a0 That leaves only Leslie to be able to comment at this point.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think Bob is making a good point.\u00a0 That is one of the reasons I didn\u2019t raise my hand.\u00a0 I certainly have felt depressed in my life; but I know people who have felt depressed and the extreme nature of that\u2014the thoughts of death that go through their mind moment after moment\u2014I don\u2019t want to put myself in that category.\u00a0 It would somehow diminish the pain they have experienced.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Did you have a season, Leslie, where it was an extended, prolonged, depressed\u2014didn't want to get out of bed; didn't want to eat; all of those things?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It was, and it came after a severe loss in my life.\u00a0 I tell the story of my husband and I planned to adopt a child.\u00a0 We had one biological child, and we were planning to adopt another.\u00a0 Through a series of miracles that we thought God had arranged for us to do a private adoption with a woman, she betrayed us at the last minute and gave the child to someone else.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have to say that I did, in that season of time, experience a profound sense of loss and sadness; but I was also angry.\u00a0 I was very angry at the woman because she lied to us; but probably, if I was honest, and I am, I was angry at God.\u00a0 \"How dare He trick me,\" is how I put it.\u00a0 \u201cHe led me to believe that He was going to give me the desires of my heart, and then He deceived me.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe experience exposed something in my heart that I was not aware of at the time.\u00a0 Now, I can look back and see it.\u00a0 At the time, I didn't see it.\u00a0 I was just buried by it.\u00a0 My relationship with God was rather superficial.\u00a0 I was in this relationship with Him for what He could give me.\u00a0 When He didn't give me what I thought I should get, what I thought I deserved after being so good as a Christian all those times that He was putting me through adversity.\u00a0\u00a0 \u201cHow dare He take that away from me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>And so what did you do?\u00a0 Did you literally crawl up in a ball and\u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I sort of just crawled up in a ball, and I gave up.\u00a0 I threw my Bible under my bed.\u00a0 I said, \"I'm done,\" and I just sort of just gave up for a while.\u00a0 I don't remember how long \"a while\" was.\u00a0 I didn't go to the doctor.\u00a0 Nobody had to drag me out of bed.\u00a0 I still functioned.\u00a0 I took care of my other child; but I lost a sense of purpose; I lost a sense of direction; I lost a sense of joy; I didn't have any reason to do what I was doing other than I had to take care of my child.\u00a0 I was just done.\u00a0 I was done with life.\u00a0 I think that, for me\u2014I tend to be a somewhat melancholy, glass-half-empty kind of person.\u00a0 I battle depressed moods regularly, but that was an experience of depression for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, then, help us out here because there are folks who are listening who are thinking, \"I don't know if I'm just melancholy and I battle bad moods from time to time or if I'm depressed and need something more than just, \u2018I'm in a bad mood from time to time.\u2019\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIs there a way to self-diagnose?\u00a0 Is there a way to ask yourself these questions and determine:\u00a0 \"This is more than just a bad mood, and you need someone to help you through it,\u201d or, \"This is just a bad mood, and it will pass\"?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, I think there are different kinds of depression, too.\u00a0 Dysthymia is a low-level depression that's with someone for longer than two years.\u00a0 How do they know whether that's just the way they are?\u00a0 Some women just say, \"I've always felt this way,\" or some men say, \"I've always felt this way,\" and don't realize that this is actually called depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that I'm not sure self-diagnosis is necessarily the right approach.\u00a0 I think what you need to do is recognize whether you're having a depressed mood or whether you're in a depression.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFirst of all, if you're not functioning, like Elijah wasn't, if you're not able to get up out of your bed, if you're not eating, if you're not sleeping, you need some medical attention.\u00a0 That would be the appropriate first step because you can't even hear anybody talking to you and you can't process anything if you're not sleeping and you're not eating.\u00a0 You can't think.\u00a0 That would be the first step.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>And you're not thinking right when you do think about God, about yourself, about life, and about the Scriptures.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Right, especially if you are not sleeping.\u00a0 It is really hard to process anything if you are up half the night, crying, if you are thinking of thoughts of suicide or those kinds of things.\u00a0 It is really important to get the proper diagnosis to make sure that you are not having another medical condition or that you might need some medication for the short-term.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Go to a medical doctor first. That is what you did.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That would be the first step.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Ed?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong>\u00a0I was going to say the Scripture doesn't seem to really focus on the magnitude of the depression.\u00a0 It seems to suggest more that when hardships come your way in whatever form they may take, and certainly depression is a profound form of hardship, hardships are a time when we are going to be spiritually vulnerable.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur hearts are going to be revealed in new ways.\u00a0 Questions about God are going to come screaming through our minds in the way they didn't in the past.\u00a0 Also, we're going to be spiritually vulnerable.\u00a0 It's as if Satan is just waiting for things like depression to knock on our door because we're already in the midst of depression, we're already saying, \"Lord, where are you?\u00a0 Do you hear us?\"\u00a0 Satan comes along and says, \"Yes, they're great questions, and maybe He really doesn't hear you.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tScripture doesn't necessarily say you have to be really depressed.\u00a0 It's just that sadness and hardships are always opportunities for us to consider, \u201cWhat does God say to us now?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Leslie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Whether we're experiencing depression, like a clinical depression, or a major depression, or we're just in a depressed mood, I still have to practice this very same thing that I am teaching others to practice.\u00a0 When I'm having a bad day, I have to:\u00a0 listen to myself\u2014listen to what I'm telling myself\u2014listen to God\u2014and ask myself if I'm really believing Him.\u00a0 I have to do that in those moments, whether it's a mild bad day or whether I'm experiencing a more prolonged sense of loss and sadness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>This goes back to Dennis' vote, where, from this perspective, all of us struggle with depression\u2014every single human being struggles with depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 That's kind of where I was going with it because I think, at some level, whether or not you label it \"clinically\" depressed, we struggle with, as you said, the hardships of life that drag us down.\u00a0 They may discourage us, they may neutralize us, they may cause us to become inward-focused on self and begin to believe lies about God, about the Scripture, and the promises of the Bible, and about ourselves.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere's where the body of Christ comes in.\u00a0 If you're married to someone who is struggling with depression, one of the most important roles you can play in that person's life is to not enter into their unbelief about themselves and about who God is. If you have a family member, or if you're going through a period like that, we all need others in our lives who remind us of the truth.\u00a0 I'm going to keep going back to this, and we'll talk about it all week.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's the truth about God, it's the truth about the Scriptures\u2014what the Scriptures say about who we are, what our identity is, who we are to be, and that we do have value, we do have worth, and that there are some things about us that need to be dealt with.\u00a0 We don't always know what's taking place in our lives; and God may be trying to teach us a very, very important lesson through a time of hardship, a time of discouragement, or a time of depression.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0In the course of a conversation like this on the radio, obviously, we can't deal with all of the issues that come up around the subject of depression; but in the books that the two of you have written, people can dive deeper and find out more and get more help.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEd\u2019s book is called <em>Depression:<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>A Stubborn Darkness<\/em>.\u00a0 Leslie has written a book called <em>Defeating Depression<\/em>.\u00a0 We have both of these books in our FamilyLife TodayResource Center.\u00a0 In fact, if you would like to get the two books together, we will send along, at no additional cost, the CD audio of the conversation we are having this week on this subject.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFind out more when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014that is our website\u2014\u00a0 FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014again, the books are called <em>Depression:<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>A Stubborn Darkness<\/em> and <em>Defeating Depression<\/em>\u2014or call 1-800-FLTODAY\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 That is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cToday.\u201d\u00a0 You can ask about these books, and we will make arrangements to have either or both of them sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of the questions that comes up for many of us when we face situations like this, when we are dealing with things like depression or any kind of a trial or adversity is, \u201cHow can God be a good God and we still go through these prolonged seasons of difficulty and pain?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur friend, Randy Alcorn, has written a very helpful booklet, 64 pages, dealing with the subject, \u201cIf God Is Good, Why Do We Hurt?\u201d\u00a0 This week, we want to make a copy of that booklet available to you at no cost if that is an issue you are wrestling with.\u00a0 Perhaps you are a new listener to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>and this is an issue that has been a struggle for you.\u00a0 Contact us, either online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Request a copy of the booklet by Randy Alcorn, \u201cIf God Is Good, Why Do We Hurt?\u201d\u00a0 We will send it to you at no cost.\u00a0 Again, you can order online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about the biblical command for us to rejoice and the idea that joy is a fruit of the Spirit; and, \u201cHow does that fit in with the experience of depression in a Christian\u2019s life?\u201d\u00a0 We will talk about that tomorrow.\u00a0 Hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302304","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302304"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302304"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302304"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302304"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302304"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302304"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302304"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}