{"id":302284,"date":"2011-06-07T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2011-06-07T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/connecting-with-others\/"},"modified":"2011-06-07T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2011-06-07T15:00:00","slug":"connecting-with-others","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/connecting-with-others\/","title":{"rendered":"Connecting With Others"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Why are so many men silent?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-06-07.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.7M","filesize_raw":"24848438","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2826],"tags":[4698,2916],"podcast_series":[7807],"cwp_profile":[9235],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302284","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-men","tag-manhood","tag-men","podcast_series-bond-of-brothers","cwp_profile-wes-yoder","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302284\/connecting-with-others","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302284\/connecting-with-others","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"W99WWAXieP\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/connecting-with-others\/\">Connecting With Others<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/connecting-with-others\/embed\/#?secret=W99WWAXieP\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Connecting With Others&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"W99WWAXieP\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-06-07.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-06-07.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Have you been part of a men\u2019s group at church that never really got past the surface, never got down deep?\u00a0 Wes Yoder says he thinks he knows why.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Guys will not come to something where they think somebody\u2019s going to try to fix them.\u00a0 They will not come to something where they think, \u201cOh, I\u2019ve got to spill my beans.\u201d\u00a0 But if you could actually get together and have conversations that are fun, but that are important life things, guys will talk all night long and they will keep coming back year after year after year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLifeToday<\/em> for Tuesday, June 7<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk today about why men who need friendships fear friendships, and what we can do to help guys open up a little bit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 You know, I\u2019ve talked with pastors and church leaders about the difference between the men\u2019s groups and the women\u2019s groups in their church.\u00a0 Women\u2019s groups are pretty easy to put together.\u00a0 You get some women; you get maybe some scones and some tea --\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Be careful, be careful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 -- and a few questions, and you\u2019ve got a women\u2019s group.\u00a0 But if you got a group of guys together with scones and tea and a few questions, you \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re going to get mail, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, but you know what I\u2019m talking about, right?\u00a0 If you want to get a men\u2019s group together, you do a project, you form a softball team, you get guys doing stuff together, and it\u2019s in the context of doing stuff together that you may get some relationships that start to form.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 I remember a number of years ago, and it doesn\u2019t matter who it was \u2013 it was a broadcaster, who didn\u2019t have enough friends to carry his casket, and he was very nervous about being able to list six to eight men who would carry his body and drop him in the ground at the end of the day.\u00a0 Highly successful in his profession, but didn\u2019t have the friendships of other men who would be there at the end to drop his body in the ground.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it\u2019s really an illustration of what you\u2019re talking about.\u00a0 Men don\u2019t make friendships easily.\u00a0 It\u2019s much easier to join a team and to do something, as you said.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 There\u2019s a \u2013 I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s a task orientation \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, I think that\u2019s part of it.\u00a0 It\u2019s safe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 A task is safe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we ought to ask our guest, because I bet he\u2019s thought about it a little bit, don\u2019t you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wes Yoder joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Wes, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He\u2019s written a book called <em>Bond of Brothers: Connecting With Other Men Beyond Work, Weather and Sports.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And scones and tea, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re not going to win with the guys with scones and tea, are you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, but you can win with some steaks and potatoes, though.\u00a0 You sure can.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you and your wife Linda have two children, two grandchildren, and this is now kind of the focus of your life.\u00a0 You\u2019re calling men to those relationships.\u00a0 What\u2019s your take on this?\u00a0 Why are they finding it so difficult?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019m calling men into relationship and to a new conversation, and I\u2019m doing that by inviting them to dinner.\u00a0 I think having dinner around your table is one of the most neglected things in our society for men.\u00a0 Christian homes ought to be the center place of the community, the place everybody wants to go to.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we just started -- about six years ago a friend of mine in New York, B.J. Weber, who is with the New Canaan Society and the New York Fellowship, invited me to stay for a dinner one night with a group of young men from Columbia University.\u00a0 He asked them a question.\u00a0 He said, \u201cWhat is the most surprising thing that\u2019s ever happened in your life?\u201d\u00a0 The conversation that came from that one simple question that doesn\u2019t even sound spiritual evoked all kinds of things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI go, \u201cI can go home and do this.\u201d\u00a0 And so B.J. and I are partners in this.\u00a0 He\u2019s in New York; he flies down to some of our dinners, and when I run out of questions I say, \u201cB.J. What in the world are you asking your guys this week?\u201d\u00a0 And so we\u2019ve had these dinners going on for six years around food.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLinda often helps me make the dinner and then she\u2019ll disappear, and it\u2019s just guys.\u00a0 We don\u2019t talk about our work and we don\u2019t talk about sports and we don\u2019t talk about the weather, and the conversations have been phenomenal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, as you describe that I\u2019m thinking back to a group of guys that I met with for a period of years, and this started because the church was going to have a men\u2019s study.\u00a0 We were all going to go through a book and we divided into small groups.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember when I got the assignment to lead the group and I got the book, and honestly, was dreading it.\u00a0 The guys had signed up on a clipboard.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t know them.\u00a0 I thought, \u201cThis is just going to be a pain every week to get together with guys I don\u2019t know and try and lead them through this book study.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what I did.\u00a0 I said, \u201cOkay, if we\u2019re going to do this, instead of meeting at church we\u2019re going to meet at a place where we can get cheese dip and where we can get some food.\u00a0 Okay?\u00a0 Second thing we\u2019re going to do is we\u2019re going to spend less time talking about the book and more time talking about our lives.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo when the group got together I said to all the guys, \u201cIf you\u2019re here to really master this book,\u201d I said, \u201cYou probably ought to sign up for a different group.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cBecause what we\u2019re going to do is we\u2019ll spend 15 minutes of our time on the book, but the rest of the time we\u2019re going to start off and we\u2019re just going to go around the table.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to start with you, and I want to hear the hour-long version of the story of your life, and if I don\u2019t think you\u2019re telling me enough detail I\u2019m going to ask you questions.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cI\u2019ll start.\u201d\u00a0 So I modeled for them what kind of level of transparency we were talking about.\u00a0 The book was fine.\u00a0 I mean, nothing wrong with the book, but at the end of the eight weeks, these guys \u2013 I remember one guy saying to me, \u201cI didn\u2019t think I could join this church because I didn\u2019t think there was anybody like me at this church.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said, \u201cSome of you guys are worse than I am, and you\u2019re a part of the church.\u00a0 I can fit here.\u201d\u00a0 And when the book study was over and the church said it\u2019s time for the men\u2019s group to disband, all of the guys in this group said, \u201cUh-uh.\u00a0 We don\u2019t want to disband.\u00a0 We want to keep meeting for cheese dip and diet Coke and talking about this stuff.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 And friendship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 All of a sudden friendships are developing.\u00a0 I\u2019m fascinated about what men want to talk about and how long they will talk about it.\u00a0 One night at our dinner group I said, \u201cWhy don\u2019t we tell stories about our dads, because I think we can get to know each other by telling stories about our dads.\u00a0 Did we like them?\u00a0 Did they abuse us?\u00a0 Were they kind to us?\u00a0 Did they say \u2018I love you?\u2019 Did they abuse you but there are still certain qualities about them that you would like to emulate in your life?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat conversation with about eight guys went four hours.\u00a0 One night we talked about our moms.\u00a0 \u201cTell us about your sweet mother.\u201d\u00a0 That was an amazing evening. Some nights we\u2019d talk about sorrow and the challenges of living as men growing older, and what happens when our marriages start changing.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat makes your marriage strong?\u00a0 What makes you marriage weak?\u00a0 What\u2019s your greatest fear right now and what\u2019s the greatest sorrow of your life?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd guys can take questions like that and go anywhere they want to with them, as self-revealing as they feel safe to do, or they can tell you how they won at something last week, at the office last Thursday.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Men do want to tell their story, but for some reason men tend to be silent.\u00a0 What\u2019s your opinion of why guys retreat to the safety of silence?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are a couple of things that I think are really significant to understand.\u00a0 One, we as men by nature defer and the weakness of that is passivity.\u00a0 The beauty in it is that if somebody else is talking in the room we\u2019re not going to talk over them.\u00a0 We defer to our wives when they speak.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s the dynamic that you observe when couples get together and the women do all the talking and the guys haven\u2019t said anything.\u00a0 And there\u2019s a politeness in it, and there\u2019s a sickness in it.\u00a0 So part of this, the silence of men, is a sickness that we\u2019ve learned, most of the time from our fathers, where we really weren\u2019t engaged by them.\u00a0 We haven\u2019t learned the dialect that men speak to one another, and we don\u2019t quite know how to get started.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe don\u2019t know how to initiate that conversation, and that\u2019s what I\u2019m hoping the book will do, is help guys find a starting point.\u00a0 And then when they find out they really do have friends and they really do love them, you can talk about anything.\u00a0 You can go all sorts of places.\u00a0 You can become playful again, which is another thing that\u2019s missing in men.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Have you had guys that you\u2019ve tried to peel back some of the layers on, and they just wouldn\u2019t peel?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not yet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Really.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not since I learned to forgive the guys who betrayed me.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t even want to.\u00a0 I have to tell you a little story.\u00a0 After this whole thing with our porch group, our accountability group fell apart.\u00a0 Here I am, an elder in the church \u2013 and I wouldn\u2019t have said it out loud then, and I can barely say it now because I was taught not to use the h-a-t-e word, but I hated men.\u00a0 At least I didn\u2019t want to be around any of you guys.\u00a0 And whenever I would look into the face of other guys I would see the face of another potential betrayer, and I wanted nothing to do with you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, again, my friend B.J. Weber in New York, he and I were in the process of becoming friends, and he says, \u201cHey, Wes.\u00a0 Why don\u2019t you come up to this men\u2019s retreat?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cA men\u2019s retreat?\u00a0 Are you kidding?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s the last place on earth I wanted to be.\u00a0 And he prevailed and I finally said, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to fly to New York, and I\u2019m going to go there.\u00a0 Nobody\u2019s going to know me.\u00a0 I can hide all weekend long and be just fine and B.J. will be happy that I came.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat weekend Jack Deere was speaking and he was speaking on this text of Scripture from Matthew where the king has forgiven this guy these 10,000 talents, which is about 200,000 years of income, and he throws him in prison, and the guy gets off because the king forgives him.\u00a0 And then he gets out and won\u2019t forgive the guy who owes him about two years worth of wages.\u00a0 And the Scripture says, \u201cThis is what your Heavenly Father will do to you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Jack said, \u201cWhat will your Heavenly Father do?\u201d\u00a0 He says, \u201cHe will put you in a prison of your own making.\u00a0 You were free.\u00a0 He will put you in a prison of your own making and he will hand you the key, and you can get out of here anytime you want to.\u00a0 But you have to forgive in order to do it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey gave an invitation that night.\u00a0 I\u2019m a private guy.\u00a0 I don\u2019t like to be in the center of that kind of attention.\u00a0 I decided to go forward and have the oldest guy up there lay hands on me, and he said, \u201cDo you want to be set free?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cI have to be set free,\u201d and he prayed over me that night, and that was the day that I forgave all the guys that had hurt me in the past. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAfter that happened there was a slow but steady stream, an increasing stream of guys coming into my office, the bug man, the UPS guy, I don\u2019t know who it was \u2013 everybody \u2013 and they would sit there and start telling me their stories.\u00a0 All of a sudden I realized that God was healing me and in the process giving me the opportunity to be a part of the healing process of other men.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, I\u2019m listening to you and I\u2019m just reflecting back on a lot of different interactions I\u2019ve had with men, and I really agree with you.\u00a0 I think most men long, they hunger, they thirst for somebody to be honest, real, authentic, no bologna, no veneer, no \u2013 and excuse me here, but no God-talk that\u2019s kind of a pious spirituality that covers everything and doesn\u2019t get down to the nitty-gritty.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMen really do long for that, and if there can be a setting where, as Bob described, you get together with a group of guys over a period of weeks, and they probably really honestly \u2013 if you\u2019d gone around the room and kind of checked their meters in terms of their trust of Bob when he started that group -- they probably would have said, \u201cNah.\u00a0 Not going there, Bob.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut he set the pace by modeling what it looked like to tell the story and to crack open his heart, and as a result men\u2019s hearts were cemented to one another.\u00a0 I think today, in this high-tech, low-relationship world, they\u2019re really hungering for this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Guys are really hungry.\u00a0 I do the same thing in our dinner group, which has been together now six years.\u00a0 I\u2019ve made a point of not talking about sex in the group, because that\u2019s what you\u2019re supposed to finally get together and talk about this \u2013 until January of this year.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI finally asked the question.\u00a0 I said, \u201cHow has pornography affected your view of women?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cBefore we answer that question, why don\u2019t we go around the room and talk about when we were young boys when we first saw pornography and what it did to us.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that led to this incredible discussion that night where four of the guys in the room had wives who for 30 and 40 years of marriage could not initiate touch, could not initiate saying \u201cI love you,\u201d because they had been severely sexually abused when they were kids or raped when they were teenagers.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd all of a sudden that one question \u2013 we weren\u2019t trying to get people to confess their sins, although one guy said, \u201cI\u2019ve had a twenty-year addiction to pornography,\u201d that God was delivering him from it, but he said, \u201cI still fight it.\u201d\u00a0 And so we found, without even asking for a confession, guys willing to share their life, and it was based around this gentle question that then revealed other sorrows of our hearts.\u00a0 It was incredible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I hadn\u2019t really thought of it until you just explained it as you did, Wes, but I wonder, I just wonder if the pornography addiction that occurs today within the body of Christ \u2013 I\u2019m talking about believers, people who follow Christ \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Are you with me?\u00a0 I\u2019m not talking about \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 You mean, 50 percent of the guys, for the most part.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah, and a huge percentage of pastors.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 And a lot of women now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You just wonder if they were engaged in authentic relationship, what percent it would slash and almost take the power \u2013 not totally \u2013 but take the power away from the temptation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, evil has intrinsic power, so like you said, there\u2019s going to still be some power left in the intrinsic evil that is there, but this whole idea of coming open and becoming men through whom light shines freely, that\u2019s a constant maintenance, it\u2019s a constant confessional life, but it would really cut down the kind of troubles that we\u2019re seeing right now.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got to do something about this.\u00a0 We have got, not to fix pornography, not to fix marriages, although we have to do all these things, but we have to get these things healed in our life.\u00a0 We have to come to a place of openness \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 -- where God is going to reveal himself with power and transform us.\u00a0 You know, about the time that a man has the most to offer in life, he\u2019s ushered to the greatest silence of his life.\u00a0 This happens through sorrows, through job loss, through failures that he\u2019s had, all kinds of things that happen, and by the time a man should be a patriarch he does not even yet know how to be a father.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the time he should be a man he barely knows how to be a son.\u00a0 As we get older and ought to be rejoicing in the coming springtime of our youth, we don\u2019t even know yet how to be children.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus said some things that are crazy, like \u201cUnless you become like a child, you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.\u201d\u00a0 He\u2019s talking about the playfulness, he\u2019s talking about the purity of heart, he\u2019s talking about the simplicity of trust, he\u2019s talking about the kind of complete openness that I think would cut addictions off at the legs.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 A number of years ago I started going on a hunting trip with a group of guys, total strangers.\u00a0 There have been guys come and go from that group.\u00a0 This coming year we have people standing in line, men who are standing in line to get in that group, and there\u2019s a reason \u2013 because that group of men that have come together, started out coming together around hunting.\u00a0 The hunt is irrelevant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is irrelevant.\u00a0 I\u2019m telling you.\u00a0 What is relevant is there\u2019s a group of guys who have peeled it back, and it\u2019s no bologna.\u00a0 I mean, zero bologna.\u00a0 And there is also, as to your point, no Mister fix-its.\u00a0 I\u2019m thinking as you said that, Wes, how against our natures this really is.\u00a0 Men want to do what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Fix it. Do it.\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Fix things.\u00a0 We want to get closure on it, and yet what God says, is \u201cI want you to be a conduit of healing, merciful grace, of which you are the chief recipient, because you, too, are broken.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 And he says, \u201cI\u2019m going to come to your door, and I\u2019m going to knock on it, and if you open it, I\u2019m going to come in and sit down and eat with you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s what it says.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Imagine that.\u00a0 Jesus at the table.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He\u2019s with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 And so this thing is so important.\u00a0 The fix-it mindset has got to die.\u00a0 It\u2019s dead already anyway.\u00a0 But we have got to learn how to be with each other.\u00a0 I was talking to a pastor in Michigan not long ago, and I made the comment that I was sorry to see how few pastors really have close friends.\u00a0 And he said, \u201cThat\u2019s true,\u201d but he said, \u201cThere\u2019s a reason for it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cWhat do you think the reason is?\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cWell, we, as pastors, have learned that it\u2019s not safe.\u00a0 You share your heart, somebody goes and talks about it, all of a sudden it\u2019s all over the church and it\u2019s a big spectacle.\u201d\u00a0 And I said, \u201cBut on the night that Jesus was betrayed he invited all of his best friends.\u00a0 They were the runaways, they were the betrayers and the deny-ers.\u00a0 He invited them into his presence, and he was such a healthy man that he could invite them into his presence.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe was also the Son of God, but he was a healthy man at that point.\u00a0 We\u2019re looking at healthy manhood.\u00a0 And he invites them into his presence, knowing what\u2019s going to happen.\u00a0 And I am finding; I am slowly discovering this:\u00a0 that the more that I allow God to heal me, the further I get in this journey of healing, the more willing I am to invite men to my table and into my life and into the embrace of my arms who I know could hurt me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wes, there are two groups of people listening right now.\u00a0 There is a group of men who need these friendships.\u00a0 There are also women who are listening who are married to the men, and honestly, there is no way a radio broadcast can begin to offer the kind of solution, speaking of fixing it, but appealing to God can provide wisdom.\u00a0 Would you pray for both groups of people here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 I will.\u00a0 I will.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFather, we thank you for this moment in our life together where we get to speak and people around this country are listening to a message, Lord, that might even seem far-fetched \u2013 I can\u2019t get there, I\u2019m not the kind of guy who can ever be in relationship and friendships with people, and I have a wife who doesn\u2019t understand me, and I don\u2019t really understand her.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFather, we together today are praying for both men and women listening to this broadcast who need friends, who need spiritual friendships, who need a transformation of Jesus in their life.\u00a0 Father, I am praying for the women who need to pray for their husbands today instead of trying to fix them, instead of trying to nag them.\u00a0 Father, I pray for these women, that you would bring healing to their hearts.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI pray for my brothers out there.\u00a0 Lord, you want to do amazing things with us as men.\u00a0 I pray that you would give them life.\u00a0 I pray that you would help them to rediscover their childhood, and that they would come alive in you.\u00a0 Lord, this is the miraculous thing that you can do, and I pray that you would transform us, Father, to become the kind of men who actually have friends and who can look in the face of another man and not see a betrayer, but see a man who just like us is weak and in need of a savior, and in need of Jesus to come and sit down at our table.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFather, bless us.\u00a0 We ask you to do this enormous work in us, Lord.\u00a0 We\u2019re so broken and we need you so much.\u00a0 In Jesus\u2019 name we pray.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s not a man who\u2019s listening nor a woman who didn\u2019t need that prayer, because what you\u2019re talking about here is not \u2013 this is not natural.\u00a0 Everything within a man wants to retreat, wants to hide.\u00a0 He doesn\u2019t want to disclose, but it\u2019s taking the key to the prison, as you talked about, and putting it there, and you know what?\u00a0\u00a0 As a man you can step up.\u00a0 You can step up and step out of that prison.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 And one of the ways you do that is with the kinds of relationships that we\u2019ve been talking about this week, and the kind that you encourage us toward in the book, <em>Bond of Brothers.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>We have copies of that book in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 Let me encourage our listeners:\u00a0 go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on Wes Yoder\u2019s book, <em>Bond of Brothers<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 And then let me encourage them as well, get a copy of Dennis Rainey\u2019s new book, which is called <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em>, where, Dennis, you walk us through five different stages a man goes through in his life, from boyhood through adolescence to manhood, and then to becoming a mentor to other men and a patriarch.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou really give us, not only a vision for those stages of masculine growth, but also call us to move forward in our development as men.\u00a0 And of course we\u2019ve got copies of the book, <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em> in our FamilyLifeToday Resource Center as well.\u00a0 Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com for more information, or call 1-800-\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800 \u201cF\u201d as in Family, \u201cL\u201d as in Life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of the things we are most grateful for here at FamilyLife is those of you who not only listen to <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>but get in touch with us and let us know about how God is using this radio program, our website, our events and conferences, our resources, how those are being used in your marriage and your family.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m always encouraged by the comments that people leave on the transcript of each day\u2019s program as they\u2019ve been interacting with the particular program.\u00a0 Or to hear about folks who have downloaded the iPhone app and are listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> more regularly because it\u2019s convenient on their iPhone now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are also very grateful for those of you who from time to time make a donation to help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Those donations are what make all that we do possible.\u00a0 In fact, more than 65 percent of our budget is covered through donations from listeners just like you each year.\u00a0 So we are thankful for those of you who support us financially.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, if you\u2019re able to help with a donation of any amount, we\u2019d like to say thank you by sending you a book and a CD, both on the same subject.\u00a0 The book is by John Yates.\u00a0 It\u2019s called <em>How a Man Prays for His Family<\/em>, and the accompanying CD is a conversation that Dennis and I had with John Yates a while back about this subject.\u00a0 Along with the book and the CD we\u2019ll send you a couple of cards that you can use to help prompt you to pray for your children on a regular basis.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, we\u2019re sending these out to those of you who can make a donation this month to help support <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>If you make your donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com, just type the word \u201cPRAY\u201d in the online key code box, and that will let us know that you\u2019d like to have these resources sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you call 1-800-FLTODAY and make a donation over the phone, just ask for the material on men and prayer as you make your donation.\u00a0 They\u2019ll know what you\u2019re talking about, and we\u2019ll get that sent to you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, let me just say thanks so much for your support of the ministry.\u00a0 All of us here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> really appreciate you listening, we appreciate hearing from you, and we do appreciate your financial support as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we want to encourage you to join us again tomorrow, when we\u2019re going to talk about men stepping up and being the men that God has called each one of us to be.\u00a0 I hope you can be here for that conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/site\/c.dnJHKLNnFoG\/b.3782043\/k.384D\/Support_Us.htm\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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are so many men silent?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-06-07.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Have you been part of a men\u2019s group at church that never really got past the surface, never got down deep?\u00a0 Wes Yoder says he thinks he knows why.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Guys will not come to something where they think somebody\u2019s going to try to fix them.\u00a0 They will not come to something where they think, \u201cOh, I\u2019ve got to spill my beans.\u201d\u00a0 But if you could actually get together and have conversations that are fun, but that are important life things, guys will talk all night long and they will keep coming back year after year after year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLifeToday<\/em> for Tuesday, June 7<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk today about why men who need friendships fear friendships, and what we can do to help guys open up a little bit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 You know, I\u2019ve talked with pastors and church leaders about the difference between the men\u2019s groups and the women\u2019s groups in their church.\u00a0 Women\u2019s groups are pretty easy to put together.\u00a0 You get some women; you get maybe some scones and some tea --\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Be careful, be careful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 -- and a few questions, and you\u2019ve got a women\u2019s group.\u00a0 But if you got a group of guys together with scones and tea and a few questions, you \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re going to get mail, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, but you know what I\u2019m talking about, right?\u00a0 If you want to get a men\u2019s group together, you do a project, you form a softball team, you get guys doing stuff together, and it\u2019s in the context of doing stuff together that you may get some relationships that start to form.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 I remember a number of years ago, and it doesn\u2019t matter who it was \u2013 it was a broadcaster, who didn\u2019t have enough friends to carry his casket, and he was very nervous about being able to list six to eight men who would carry his body and drop him in the ground at the end of the day.\u00a0 Highly successful in his profession, but didn\u2019t have the friendships of other men who would be there at the end to drop his body in the ground.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it\u2019s really an illustration of what you\u2019re talking about.\u00a0 Men don\u2019t make friendships easily.\u00a0 It\u2019s much easier to join a team and to do something, as you said.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 There\u2019s a \u2013 I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s a task orientation \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, I think that\u2019s part of it.\u00a0 It\u2019s safe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 A task is safe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we ought to ask our guest, because I bet he\u2019s thought about it a little bit, don\u2019t you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wes Yoder joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Wes, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He\u2019s written a book called <em>Bond of Brothers: Connecting With Other Men Beyond Work, Weather and Sports.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And scones and tea, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re not going to win with the guys with scones and tea, are you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, but you can win with some steaks and potatoes, though.\u00a0 You sure can.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you and your wife Linda have two children, two grandchildren, and this is now kind of the focus of your life.\u00a0 You\u2019re calling men to those relationships.\u00a0 What\u2019s your take on this?\u00a0 Why are they finding it so difficult?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019m calling men into relationship and to a new conversation, and I\u2019m doing that by inviting them to dinner.\u00a0 I think having dinner around your table is one of the most neglected things in our society for men.\u00a0 Christian homes ought to be the center place of the community, the place everybody wants to go to.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we just started -- about six years ago a friend of mine in New York, B.J. Weber, who is with the New Canaan Society and the New York Fellowship, invited me to stay for a dinner one night with a group of young men from Columbia University.\u00a0 He asked them a question.\u00a0 He said, \u201cWhat is the most surprising thing that\u2019s ever happened in your life?\u201d\u00a0 The conversation that came from that one simple question that doesn\u2019t even sound spiritual evoked all kinds of things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI go, \u201cI can go home and do this.\u201d\u00a0 And so B.J. and I are partners in this.\u00a0 He\u2019s in New York; he flies down to some of our dinners, and when I run out of questions I say, \u201cB.J. What in the world are you asking your guys this week?\u201d\u00a0 And so we\u2019ve had these dinners going on for six years around food.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLinda often helps me make the dinner and then she\u2019ll disappear, and it\u2019s just guys.\u00a0 We don\u2019t talk about our work and we don\u2019t talk about sports and we don\u2019t talk about the weather, and the conversations have been phenomenal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, as you describe that I\u2019m thinking back to a group of guys that I met with for a period of years, and this started because the church was going to have a men\u2019s study.\u00a0 We were all going to go through a book and we divided into small groups.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember when I got the assignment to lead the group and I got the book, and honestly, was dreading it.\u00a0 The guys had signed up on a clipboard.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t know them.\u00a0 I thought, \u201cThis is just going to be a pain every week to get together with guys I don\u2019t know and try and lead them through this book study.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what I did.\u00a0 I said, \u201cOkay, if we\u2019re going to do this, instead of meeting at church we\u2019re going to meet at a place where we can get cheese dip and where we can get some food.\u00a0 Okay?\u00a0 Second thing we\u2019re going to do is we\u2019re going to spend less time talking about the book and more time talking about our lives.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo when the group got together I said to all the guys, \u201cIf you\u2019re here to really master this book,\u201d I said, \u201cYou probably ought to sign up for a different group.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cBecause what we\u2019re going to do is we\u2019ll spend 15 minutes of our time on the book, but the rest of the time we\u2019re going to start off and we\u2019re just going to go around the table.\u00a0 I\u2019m going to start with you, and I want to hear the hour-long version of the story of your life, and if I don\u2019t think you\u2019re telling me enough detail I\u2019m going to ask you questions.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cI\u2019ll start.\u201d\u00a0 So I modeled for them what kind of level of transparency we were talking about.\u00a0 The book was fine.\u00a0 I mean, nothing wrong with the book, but at the end of the eight weeks, these guys \u2013 I remember one guy saying to me, \u201cI didn\u2019t think I could join this church because I didn\u2019t think there was anybody like me at this church.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said, \u201cSome of you guys are worse than I am, and you\u2019re a part of the church.\u00a0 I can fit here.\u201d\u00a0 And when the book study was over and the church said it\u2019s time for the men\u2019s group to disband, all of the guys in this group said, \u201cUh-uh.\u00a0 We don\u2019t want to disband.\u00a0 We want to keep meeting for cheese dip and diet Coke and talking about this stuff.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 And friendship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 All of a sudden friendships are developing.\u00a0 I\u2019m fascinated about what men want to talk about and how long they will talk about it.\u00a0 One night at our dinner group I said, \u201cWhy don\u2019t we tell stories about our dads, because I think we can get to know each other by telling stories about our dads.\u00a0 Did we like them?\u00a0 Did they abuse us?\u00a0 Were they kind to us?\u00a0 Did they say \u2018I love you?\u2019 Did they abuse you but there are still certain qualities about them that you would like to emulate in your life?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat conversation with about eight guys went four hours.\u00a0 One night we talked about our moms.\u00a0 \u201cTell us about your sweet mother.\u201d\u00a0 That was an amazing evening. Some nights we\u2019d talk about sorrow and the challenges of living as men growing older, and what happens when our marriages start changing.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat makes your marriage strong?\u00a0 What makes you marriage weak?\u00a0 What\u2019s your greatest fear right now and what\u2019s the greatest sorrow of your life?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd guys can take questions like that and go anywhere they want to with them, as self-revealing as they feel safe to do, or they can tell you how they won at something last week, at the office last Thursday.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Men do want to tell their story, but for some reason men tend to be silent.\u00a0 What\u2019s your opinion of why guys retreat to the safety of silence?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are a couple of things that I think are really significant to understand.\u00a0 One, we as men by nature defer and the weakness of that is passivity.\u00a0 The beauty in it is that if somebody else is talking in the room we\u2019re not going to talk over them.\u00a0 We defer to our wives when they speak.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s the dynamic that you observe when couples get together and the women do all the talking and the guys haven\u2019t said anything.\u00a0 And there\u2019s a politeness in it, and there\u2019s a sickness in it.\u00a0 So part of this, the silence of men, is a sickness that we\u2019ve learned, most of the time from our fathers, where we really weren\u2019t engaged by them.\u00a0 We haven\u2019t learned the dialect that men speak to one another, and we don\u2019t quite know how to get started.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe don\u2019t know how to initiate that conversation, and that\u2019s what I\u2019m hoping the book will do, is help guys find a starting point.\u00a0 And then when they find out they really do have friends and they really do love them, you can talk about anything.\u00a0 You can go all sorts of places.\u00a0 You can become playful again, which is another thing that\u2019s missing in men.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Have you had guys that you\u2019ve tried to peel back some of the layers on, and they just wouldn\u2019t peel?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not yet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Really.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not since I learned to forgive the guys who betrayed me.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t even want to.\u00a0 I have to tell you a little story.\u00a0 After this whole thing with our porch group, our accountability group fell apart.\u00a0 Here I am, an elder in the church \u2013 and I wouldn\u2019t have said it out loud then, and I can barely say it now because I was taught not to use the h-a-t-e word, but I hated men.\u00a0 At least I didn\u2019t want to be around any of you guys.\u00a0 And whenever I would look into the face of other guys I would see the face of another potential betrayer, and I wanted nothing to do with you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, again, my friend B.J. Weber in New York, he and I were in the process of becoming friends, and he says, \u201cHey, Wes.\u00a0 Why don\u2019t you come up to this men\u2019s retreat?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cA men\u2019s retreat?\u00a0 Are you kidding?\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s the last place on earth I wanted to be.\u00a0 And he prevailed and I finally said, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to fly to New York, and I\u2019m going to go there.\u00a0 Nobody\u2019s going to know me.\u00a0 I can hide all weekend long and be just fine and B.J. will be happy that I came.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat weekend Jack Deere was speaking and he was speaking on this text of Scripture from Matthew where the king has forgiven this guy these 10,000 talents, which is about 200,000 years of income, and he throws him in prison, and the guy gets off because the king forgives him.\u00a0 And then he gets out and won\u2019t forgive the guy who owes him about two years worth of wages.\u00a0 And the Scripture says, \u201cThis is what your Heavenly Father will do to you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Jack said, \u201cWhat will your Heavenly Father do?\u201d\u00a0 He says, \u201cHe will put you in a prison of your own making.\u00a0 You were free.\u00a0 He will put you in a prison of your own making and he will hand you the key, and you can get out of here anytime you want to.\u00a0 But you have to forgive in order to do it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey gave an invitation that night.\u00a0 I\u2019m a private guy.\u00a0 I don\u2019t like to be in the center of that kind of attention.\u00a0 I decided to go forward and have the oldest guy up there lay hands on me, and he said, \u201cDo you want to be set free?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cI have to be set free,\u201d and he prayed over me that night, and that was the day that I forgave all the guys that had hurt me in the past. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAfter that happened there was a slow but steady stream, an increasing stream of guys coming into my office, the bug man, the UPS guy, I don\u2019t know who it was \u2013 everybody \u2013 and they would sit there and start telling me their stories.\u00a0 All of a sudden I realized that God was healing me and in the process giving me the opportunity to be a part of the healing process of other men.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, I\u2019m listening to you and I\u2019m just reflecting back on a lot of different interactions I\u2019ve had with men, and I really agree with you.\u00a0 I think most men long, they hunger, they thirst for somebody to be honest, real, authentic, no bologna, no veneer, no \u2013 and excuse me here, but no God-talk that\u2019s kind of a pious spirituality that covers everything and doesn\u2019t get down to the nitty-gritty.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMen really do long for that, and if there can be a setting where, as Bob described, you get together with a group of guys over a period of weeks, and they probably really honestly \u2013 if you\u2019d gone around the room and kind of checked their meters in terms of their trust of Bob when he started that group -- they probably would have said, \u201cNah.\u00a0 Not going there, Bob.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut he set the pace by modeling what it looked like to tell the story and to crack open his heart, and as a result men\u2019s hearts were cemented to one another.\u00a0 I think today, in this high-tech, low-relationship world, they\u2019re really hungering for this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Guys are really hungry.\u00a0 I do the same thing in our dinner group, which has been together now six years.\u00a0 I\u2019ve made a point of not talking about sex in the group, because that\u2019s what you\u2019re supposed to finally get together and talk about this \u2013 until January of this year.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI finally asked the question.\u00a0 I said, \u201cHow has pornography affected your view of women?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cBefore we answer that question, why don\u2019t we go around the room and talk about when we were young boys when we first saw pornography and what it did to us.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that led to this incredible discussion that night where four of the guys in the room had wives who for 30 and 40 years of marriage could not initiate touch, could not initiate saying \u201cI love you,\u201d because they had been severely sexually abused when they were kids or raped when they were teenagers.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd all of a sudden that one question \u2013 we weren\u2019t trying to get people to confess their sins, although one guy said, \u201cI\u2019ve had a twenty-year addiction to pornography,\u201d that God was delivering him from it, but he said, \u201cI still fight it.\u201d\u00a0 And so we found, without even asking for a confession, guys willing to share their life, and it was based around this gentle question that then revealed other sorrows of our hearts.\u00a0 It was incredible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I hadn\u2019t really thought of it until you just explained it as you did, Wes, but I wonder, I just wonder if the pornography addiction that occurs today within the body of Christ \u2013 I\u2019m talking about believers, people who follow Christ \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Are you with me?\u00a0 I\u2019m not talking about \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 You mean, 50 percent of the guys, for the most part.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah, and a huge percentage of pastors.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 And a lot of women now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You just wonder if they were engaged in authentic relationship, what percent it would slash and almost take the power \u2013 not totally \u2013 but take the power away from the temptation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, evil has intrinsic power, so like you said, there\u2019s going to still be some power left in the intrinsic evil that is there, but this whole idea of coming open and becoming men through whom light shines freely, that\u2019s a constant maintenance, it\u2019s a constant confessional life, but it would really cut down the kind of troubles that we\u2019re seeing right now.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got to do something about this.\u00a0 We have got, not to fix pornography, not to fix marriages, although we have to do all these things, but we have to get these things healed in our life.\u00a0 We have to come to a place of openness \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 -- where God is going to reveal himself with power and transform us.\u00a0 You know, about the time that a man has the most to offer in life, he\u2019s ushered to the greatest silence of his life.\u00a0 This happens through sorrows, through job loss, through failures that he\u2019s had, all kinds of things that happen, and by the time a man should be a patriarch he does not even yet know how to be a father.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the time he should be a man he barely knows how to be a son.\u00a0 As we get older and ought to be rejoicing in the coming springtime of our youth, we don\u2019t even know yet how to be children.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus said some things that are crazy, like \u201cUnless you become like a child, you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.\u201d\u00a0 He\u2019s talking about the playfulness, he\u2019s talking about the purity of heart, he\u2019s talking about the simplicity of trust, he\u2019s talking about the kind of complete openness that I think would cut addictions off at the legs.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 A number of years ago I started going on a hunting trip with a group of guys, total strangers.\u00a0 There have been guys come and go from that group.\u00a0 This coming year we have people standing in line, men who are standing in line to get in that group, and there\u2019s a reason \u2013 because that group of men that have come together, started out coming together around hunting.\u00a0 The hunt is irrelevant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is irrelevant.\u00a0 I\u2019m telling you.\u00a0 What is relevant is there\u2019s a group of guys who have peeled it back, and it\u2019s no bologna.\u00a0 I mean, zero bologna.\u00a0 And there is also, as to your point, no Mister fix-its.\u00a0 I\u2019m thinking as you said that, Wes, how against our natures this really is.\u00a0 Men want to do what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Fix it. Do it.\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Fix things.\u00a0 We want to get closure on it, and yet what God says, is \u201cI want you to be a conduit of healing, merciful grace, of which you are the chief recipient, because you, too, are broken.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 And he says, \u201cI\u2019m going to come to your door, and I\u2019m going to knock on it, and if you open it, I\u2019m going to come in and sit down and eat with you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s what it says.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Imagine that.\u00a0 Jesus at the table.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He\u2019s with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 And so this thing is so important.\u00a0 The fix-it mindset has got to die.\u00a0 It\u2019s dead already anyway.\u00a0 But we have got to learn how to be with each other.\u00a0 I was talking to a pastor in Michigan not long ago, and I made the comment that I was sorry to see how few pastors really have close friends.\u00a0 And he said, \u201cThat\u2019s true,\u201d but he said, \u201cThere\u2019s a reason for it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cWhat do you think the reason is?\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cWell, we, as pastors, have learned that it\u2019s not safe.\u00a0 You share your heart, somebody goes and talks about it, all of a sudden it\u2019s all over the church and it\u2019s a big spectacle.\u201d\u00a0 And I said, \u201cBut on the night that Jesus was betrayed he invited all of his best friends.\u00a0 They were the runaways, they were the betrayers and the deny-ers.\u00a0 He invited them into his presence, and he was such a healthy man that he could invite them into his presence.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe was also the Son of God, but he was a healthy man at that point.\u00a0 We\u2019re looking at healthy manhood.\u00a0 And he invites them into his presence, knowing what\u2019s going to happen.\u00a0 And I am finding; I am slowly discovering this:\u00a0 that the more that I allow God to heal me, the further I get in this journey of healing, the more willing I am to invite men to my table and into my life and into the embrace of my arms who I know could hurt me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wes, there are two groups of people listening right now.\u00a0 There is a group of men who need these friendships.\u00a0 There are also women who are listening who are married to the men, and honestly, there is no way a radio broadcast can begin to offer the kind of solution, speaking of fixing it, but appealing to God can provide wisdom.\u00a0 Would you pray for both groups of people here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Wes:<\/strong>\u00a0 I will.\u00a0 I will.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFather, we thank you for this moment in our life together where we get to speak and people around this country are listening to a message, Lord, that might even seem far-fetched \u2013 I can\u2019t get there, I\u2019m not the kind of guy who can ever be in relationship and friendships with people, and I have a wife who doesn\u2019t understand me, and I don\u2019t really understand her.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFather, we together today are praying for both men and women listening to this broadcast who need friends, who need spiritual friendships, who need a transformation of Jesus in their life.\u00a0 Father, I am praying for the women who need to pray for their husbands today instead of trying to fix them, instead of trying to nag them.\u00a0 Father, I pray for these women, that you would bring healing to their hearts.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI pray for my brothers out there.\u00a0 Lord, you want to do amazing things with us as men.\u00a0 I pray that you would give them life.\u00a0 I pray that you would help them to rediscover their childhood, and that they would come alive in you.\u00a0 Lord, this is the miraculous thing that you can do, and I pray that you would transform us, Father, to become the kind of men who actually have friends and who can look in the face of another man and not see a betrayer, but see a man who just like us is weak and in need of a savior, and in need of Jesus to come and sit down at our table.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFather, bless us.\u00a0 We ask you to do this enormous work in us, Lord.\u00a0 We\u2019re so broken and we need you so much.\u00a0 In Jesus\u2019 name we pray.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 There\u2019s not a man who\u2019s listening nor a woman who didn\u2019t need that prayer, because what you\u2019re talking about here is not \u2013 this is not natural.\u00a0 Everything within a man wants to retreat, wants to hide.\u00a0 He doesn\u2019t want to disclose, but it\u2019s taking the key to the prison, as you talked about, and putting it there, and you know what?\u00a0\u00a0 As a man you can step up.\u00a0 You can step up and step out of that prison.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 And one of the ways you do that is with the kinds of relationships that we\u2019ve been talking about this week, and the kind that you encourage us toward in the book, <em>Bond of Brothers.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>We have copies of that book in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 Let me encourage our listeners:\u00a0 go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on Wes Yoder\u2019s book, <em>Bond of Brothers<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 And then let me encourage them as well, get a copy of Dennis Rainey\u2019s new book, which is called <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em>, where, Dennis, you walk us through five different stages a man goes through in his life, from boyhood through adolescence to manhood, and then to becoming a mentor to other men and a patriarch.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou really give us, not only a vision for those stages of masculine growth, but also call us to move forward in our development as men.\u00a0 And of course we\u2019ve got copies of the book, <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em> in our FamilyLifeToday Resource Center as well.\u00a0 Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com for more information, or call 1-800-\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800 \u201cF\u201d as in Family, \u201cL\u201d as in Life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of the things we are most grateful for here at FamilyLife is those of you who not only listen to <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>but get in touch with us and let us know about how God is using this radio program, our website, our events and conferences, our resources, how those are being used in your marriage and your family.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m always encouraged by the comments that people leave on the transcript of each day\u2019s program as they\u2019ve been interacting with the particular program.\u00a0 Or to hear about folks who have downloaded the iPhone app and are listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> more regularly because it\u2019s convenient on their iPhone now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are also very grateful for those of you who from time to time make a donation to help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Those donations are what make all that we do possible.\u00a0 In fact, more than 65 percent of our budget is covered through donations from listeners just like you each year.\u00a0 So we are thankful for those of you who support us financially.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, if you\u2019re able to help with a donation of any amount, we\u2019d like to say thank you by sending you a book and a CD, both on the same subject.\u00a0 The book is by John Yates.\u00a0 It\u2019s called <em>How a Man Prays for His Family<\/em>, and the accompanying CD is a conversation that Dennis and I had with John Yates a while back about this subject.\u00a0 Along with the book and the CD we\u2019ll send you a couple of cards that you can use to help prompt you to pray for your children on a regular basis.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, we\u2019re sending these out to those of you who can make a donation this month to help support <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>If you make your donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com, just type the word \u201cPRAY\u201d in the online key code box, and that will let us know that you\u2019d like to have these resources sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you call 1-800-FLTODAY and make a donation over the phone, just ask for the material on men and prayer as you make your donation.\u00a0 They\u2019ll know what you\u2019re talking about, and we\u2019ll get that sent to you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, let me just say thanks so much for your support of the ministry.\u00a0 All of us here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> really appreciate you listening, we appreciate hearing from you, and we do appreciate your financial support as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we want to encourage you to join us again tomorrow, when we\u2019re going to talk about men stepping up and being the men that God has called each one of us to be.\u00a0 I hope you can be here for that conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/site\/c.dnJHKLNnFoG\/b.3782043\/k.384D\/Support_Us.htm\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 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