{"id":302278,"date":"2011-05-19T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2011-05-19T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/how-do-i-relate-to-my-husband\/"},"modified":"2011-05-19T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2011-05-19T15:00:00","slug":"how-do-i-relate-to-my-husband","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-do-i-relate-to-my-husband\/","title":{"rendered":"How Do I Relate to My Husband?"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Marriages, like tides, ebb and flow.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-05-19.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"26.44M","filesize_raw":"27722308","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2913],"tags":[4806],"podcast_series":[7575],"cwp_profile":[3052,3057],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302278","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-empty-nest-and-midlife","tag-retirement","podcast_series-barbara-and-susans-guide-to-the-empty-nest","cwp_profile-barbara-rainey","cwp_profile-susan-yates","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302278\/how-do-i-relate-to-my-husband","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302278\/how-do-i-relate-to-my-husband","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"fELPIKXFWE\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-do-i-relate-to-my-husband\/\">How Do I Relate to My Husband?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-do-i-relate-to-my-husband\/embed\/#?secret=fELPIKXFWE\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;How Do I Relate to My Husband?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"fELPIKXFWE\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-05-19.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-05-19.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u00a0I don't know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 They do?\u00a0 Our engineer, Keith Lynch, says they still sell them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 So it's the gear; you're wanting to know if the guys have a guide for getting gear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u00a0It's a tech guide to the empty nest.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0It is \"John and Dennis's Guide to Gear.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, we're not talking about our gear guidebook; we are talking about <em>Barbara and Susan's Guide to the Empty Nest.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\u00a0Welcome back to Susan Yates and my wife, Barbara.\u00a0 Ladies, welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, we're having fun, thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We are having fun.\u00a0 Susan and her husband, John \u2013 or Johnny, whichever you prefer, have been \u2026\u00a0 Have been speaking at our Weekend to Remember\u00ae\u00a0 marriage conferences for now coming up on a dozen years, Susan.\u00a0 Can you believe? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong> No, it's gone by so fast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 John is an Anglican pastor at one of the oldest churches on the East Coast of Falls Church in Falls Church, Virginia, and Barbara and Susan have teamed up to write this book and, Bob, I really like this book because it's talking about how to really re-engage with your husband in the empty nest.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0And that's what we want to talk about today.\u00a0 Susan, you said when you started this chapter in the book that there were two traps that you saw you could fall into \u2013 what were they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you know, it was very interesting, Dennis, because I didn't actually give a lot of thought to the empty nest before I hit it.\u00a0 But as I did mull it over, I realized that for me, personally, I could go in one of two directions, neither of which would be very healthy.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the first was that as I approached the empty nest, and the children left, I have realized that I could have a tendency to expect Johnny to fill the emotional void that was going to be walking out of my life when the children left.\u00a0 In other words, I would expect him to make me feel needed, to make me complete, to affirm me, to appreciate me, to understand me.\u00a0 As I mulled that over, I realized, you know, that wasn't the proper response.\u00a0 I couldn't expect him to fill the emotional void that I would now have because the children had left.\u00a0 So that was one tendency.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other extreme that I could go to was this.\u00a0 I could go to well, he will just work more and longer hours, and I will just do my own thing, I'll do my writing and speaking, and we'll sort of connect whenever it's convenient.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Co-exist?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Co-exist.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You actually gave that some thought?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 I felt that could be a possibility \u2013 either I would become too emotionally needy and dependent on him, or I would go the other direction, and I'd think, \"Well, I'll just get very busy with my own life and do my own thing, and he'll do his own thing, and we'll connect whenever it suits,\" and I realized that neither was right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And can I suggest that unless somebody is intentional about where they're going, it's pretty easy to end up in one of those two spots, don\u2019t you think?<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 It's one of the things we talked about in the different places in this book is that we, as women, need to be intentional about how we're going to use our lives, how we're going to reinvest in our marriage, how we are going to relate to our adult children.\u00a0 Those things aren't just going to naturally happen in a good way.\u00a0 We have to think through, \"How do we want to do this?\u00a0 What do we want it to look like?\" and then be intentional.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think most men are totally unprepared for what their wives are about to experience as they move into the empty nest.\u00a0 I know I was doing my best to help Barbara as we anticipated it some two-three years in advance; but even my best efforts, I look back on and think, \u201cThis is such a different season.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt just has new temptations and certain things you can\u2019t anticipate, Susan.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know that I would have ever had the thought that I would have been the person to have met Barbara\u2019s emotional needs or that she would have expected me to do that.\u00a0 But I could see how that could happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, that can happen, and I think that can happen through many seasons of our life, because we expect our husbands to make us happy.\u00a0 The reality is, no man can love you as much as you need to be loved.\u00a0 Only God can.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we have to learn to go to God for that, rather than to our husbands first.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let me see if I can kind of bring this down to a practical illustration of how this sense of expectation might occur in a marriage relationship.\u00a0 One of the things that your assignment in life demands of you is that you travel a good deal, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And Barbara, because you've had kids at home, you've traveled some but not a lot because you had to be there for the kids, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did she set you up to ask this question?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou've been reading our mail.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I've been reading the book.\u00a0 Did you have an expectation, Dennis, that when the kids were gone \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2026 Barbara would just be ready, willing, and able \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Without a question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2026 to go on as many or any trips that you wanted her to come along on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, the word is \"all.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0All trips.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 All, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And were you thinking, Barbara, that when the kids were gone, you would get your frequent flyer card out and join your husband?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 And sign up?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 All around the world?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, I did not.\u00a0 I thought I might go on <em>more<\/em> trips.\u00a0 I might travel more but I did not have the expectation or the desire to just switch from being a mom to following him all over the country and doing everything that he did.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's not that I didn't want to spend time with my husband, it's not that I didn't want to join him in things that I had not been able to do previously because of the kids, but I wanted to find out what God equipped me to do, and I didn't want to just switch from following my kids around and helping out with their world to following my husband around and helping him with his world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had this sense of wanting to discover more of who I was because, as Susan was saying in another broadcast, we put our lives on hold so much for our kids, not just our relationships with our friends, but we put our talents and our interests and our gifting on hold, in many ways, in order to raise our kids.\u00a0 And so I saw the empty nest not just as an opportunity to join my husband but also as an opportunity to discover more of what God might have for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I saw it a little bit differently than he did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to make two very important point here, all right?\u00a0 Number one, it took me a while to hear what she just said.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> That's correct.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 As a husband, I had so locked into the idea of her joining me in my pursuit \u2013 and I wouldn't say it was just me being selfish, I just was looking forward to spending time with her and enjoying her company as we would travel, all right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 But for the husband to hear what Barbara just said and for it to click in the brain where he goes, \"Wait a second, she just made the point I didn't want to move from following my kids around to following my husband around.\u00a0 I wanted my own purpose that I could clearly see before God,\" and initially, Bob, I was threatened by that because it was, like, \"Well, isn't my purpose big enough?\u00a0 Our purpose together?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I know some of our listeners have kind of even bowed their backs hearing me say that, but that was my initial response.\u00a0 But after a while, it began to sink in \u2013 my wife needs her own purpose and passion and adventure that goes with mine and that is hers and hers alone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe second thing I want to say is that the trap that Susan mentioned about co-existing \u2013 that would have been the trap that Barbara and I would have fallen into \u2013 two successful people co-existing, keeping busy schedules, Barbara\u2019s more around the home, mine more around out there, and instead of sharing a mutual purpose and having a common objective on the horizon, we could have just co-existed, like you talked about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I think it may be the most common thing a couple experiences, where a wife has been busy with her things, a husband\u2019s been busy with his; there\u2019s been a growing isolation.\u00a0 Now the kids are gone and you look at each other and you\u2019re not sure who the other person is or if you like one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 If you have not been purposeful in maintaining a relationship over the time when the kids are at home, and you think, \u201cWell, we\u2019ll wait \u2018til the kids are gone and then we\u2019ll re-engage that,\u201d it\u2019s going to be <em>very <\/em>difficult.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, Barbara and Susan talk about this in their book; that the relational weaknesses that are in the marriage <em>will<\/em> resurface again in the empty nest years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 In a big way?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 In a big way.\u00a0 That\u2019s why I would say to any couple that's moving in this direction, especially in the childrearing years, and you see the empty nest on the horizon some maybe five, even 10, years in advance, do some good offensive planning.\u00a0 Go to a Weekend to Remember as a couple and begin to elevate your vision of marriage and family beyond the children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, we are hosting these conferences in cities all across the country, and if our listeners are interested in finding out when a conference is coming to a city near where they live, they can go to FamilyLife.com, and there is more information about the conferences there.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd, Barbara, it's important, because the statistics I've seen show that while the divorce rate is high in the first few years of marriage, it kind of goes down for a while and plateaus, but you get to the empty nest, and it pops back up.\u00a0 And if there's not an actual divorce going on, in many cases there are emotional divorces going on, or there are extramarital affairs starting to happen.\u00a0 This is a precarious season for a marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it's really a dangerous season because you do arrive, and I think all of us arrive at the empty nest.\u00a0 I don't care how good your marriage is, you are going to arrive at the empty nest with some gaps and some places where you missed each other, and there is going to be a sense because even Dennis and I felt it, too, and we \u2013 our vocation is helping people with their marriages.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we arrived at the empty nest, and there were some places where we looked at each other and went, \"Who are you,\" and we felt some gaps.\u00a0 And so it's very important that couples work on their marriages ahead of time but especially when you come to the empty nest, realize that it is going to be one of the adjustments that you will deal with when the kids leave.\u00a0 \u201cHow do I relate to this man?\u00a0 How do we make this marriage stronger and thrive ahead into the future?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Susan, you talked with one woman who was at the empty nest or in the empty nest, and she was experiencing some temptations outside of her marriage.\u00a0 She was honest enough with you to say, \"This is something I'm really struggling with.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong> She was, and it was an interesting thing.\u00a0 A bunch of us were having coffee together around her kitchen table one morning, and she shared with us \u2013 we were all close friends and all growing in our faith, and she had the freedom to say \"I need to share with you a problem I'm having.\u00a0 I find that I am being emotionally attracted to a man who is not my husband.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe's a poet.\u00a0 I'm a writer. We are thrown together because our spouses are in the same profession, so we're together unavoidably quite a bit socially, and we are sharing books, we're sharing thoughts, he's calling me during the week, and I find that many times I feel like he understands me better than my own husband.\u00a0 And nothing has happened beyond that at this point, but I know that I am walking on dangerous ground, and I need to ask you to hold me accountable for ending this relationship.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, as we sat around the table with our coffee, her telephone rang, and she picked up the phone, and her face went ashen white, and she looked into the phone, and then she turned and looked at us, and she said back into the phone, \"I need to ask you not to call me anymore.\u00a0 This relationship is not healthy, and it must end now.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It was the guy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 And it was the guy.\u00a0 And, you know, we marveled at the goodness of God that He would allow that gentleman to call her right when we were sitting there together around the coffee table to be the support that she needed to flee temptation.\u00a0 That was just a great warning to all of us because, for women, most adulterous affairs begin at the emotional level, and we need to flee deep emotional involvement with a man that is not our husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we need to be aware of that as we approach the empty nest in the marketplace; that we need to run towards our husbands and re-engage with <em>them<\/em> emotionally rather than allowing ourselves to be tempted by someone else who appears to understand us better than our own husband does.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, Barbara, if you were sitting with a woman headed toward the empty nest, and she said, \"You know, our marriage is okay, I mean, it's fine.\u00a0 There are no big gaps. Yeah, there's some distance, there's some isolation, but I guess that's the case for every marriage.\u00a0 But I am a little afraid that once the kids are gone, it's going to feel quiet and lonely, and we're not going to know what to say to each other.\u201d\u00a0 What would you tell her to do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, first, I would tell her that that's going to be normal, to feel like it's quiet and lonely, and you don't know what to say to each other, because I think that's the common experience, and to not be frightened by that; to expect that to be a part of the experience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, secondly, I would say find something that you can participate in with your husband where you can grow your marriage, because I think what Susan just said about reconnecting with your husband on an emotional level is the real answer.\u00a0 Find a way to reconnect with him, because that was what you had in the beginning that so often sort of goes to the background because of the emotional engagement that we have with our children, and so when the empty nest arrives, we need to find ways to reconnect emotionally with our husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo it could be a Weekend to Remember, as we were talking about earlier; it could be reading a book together; it could be joining a couples\u2019 Bible study; it could be even just taking a vacation together when your last one leaves home so that you begin to have common experiences that you are sharing together as a couple, and those things provide cement, and you need to find those.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Like going on trips with him, that kind of thing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm sorry, I was trying to help you out here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you, Bob.\u00a0 I need all the help I can get.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat Barbara is talking about, though - I think Hollywood has done such a great job of creating this romantic myth of what marital love ought to look like, all of our marriage days.\u00a0 We don't have great pictures of what it looks like in this season for a couple to grow old together, and yet when we stood before a pastor, and we promised, what did we promise?\u00a0 To love, honor, cherish, to have and to hold; you had all the promises of through sickness and health and poverty and wealth and all those matters were promised back then, and now you've had a chance to experience it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd it may do well for a couple to simply go back and reaffirm their commitment and the promise they made to one another, and then do something like Barbara is talking about some way to invest in the marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'll never forget seeing a movie that was made by some amateurs, and it was a 30-minute movie.\u00a0 It was a short story; but it was a movie about a couple who were right here, I mean, they were alone.\u00a0 The children had left, and it revealed a lack of relationship.\u00a0 I felt like the story wasn't very realistic because it found them finding hope alone in a log cabin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I'm not sure that's going to happen for most couples.\u00a0 I think what they need to do is to find hope with other couples around the Scriptures and around God's Word, and the experience of a Weekend to Remember and re-pledge their promise to each other, but then get busy building a marriage and a family according to God's blueprints.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 As you were talking, I was thinking about two things.\u00a0 I was thinking, first of all, that connection with a couple that's a few years down the road from you who can say, \"You know, we felt this, we went through this, it's okay.\"\u00a0 That can be so helpful, so encouraging, but the other thing I thought is there needs to be a renaissance of empty nest vow renewal services.\u00a0 You know, what a perfect time for couples to step forward and say, \"Can we rent the church on Friday night or on Saturday, when there's not a wedding going on, and can we just have some friends over and renew our vows?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Or your neighborhood.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, you can do it in your living room, for that matter; but let's start the new chapter of our life with a fresh ceremony that says all the stuff we said we were going to do, we're still going to do it, and now we know better, because we know what it's going to be, but you know what?\u00a0 We still do.\u00a0 And we intend to do until death do us part.\u00a0 What a great way to inaugurate this season of life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And then maybe to take that fresh renewal and to head out on a long vacation together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 In fact, as I remember, you and Johnny did this, headed off on a long vacation, and there was a convertible involved, is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is true.\u00a0 We decided right before our last child got married, that we were going to be a little sad.\u00a0 We anticipated again that we were going to be a little sad as the last one left.\u00a0 So we borrowed a beach house from friends, and two days after the wedding, we left the house a mess, the thank you notes unwritten, and we went to the beach, and Johnny surprised me by renting a red convertible with the top down - he thought he was 28 again - and we drove off. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd while we were away, we went to a little chapel, and we did go through the wedding ceremony again together, and, you know, it was interesting.\u00a0 In all honesty, as we left to go on this trip, I was a little bit nervous because I thought, \"This is the beginning of something very strange; this is the beginning of just us again, after all of these years of having children, and is it going to feel awkward?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd it did feel awkward for a little bit of time.\u00a0 But being away, we had a week away together where it was just us and, during that time, we could talk about, \"This is the beginning of something fresh, and make a list, okay, what do we want to do in this next season of our lives?\"\u00a0 And just, for the first time, after many years, be able to invest in building that best friendship <em>again<\/em> because the older you get in life, it's the companionship that becomes sweeter and sweeter and sweeter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think what Barbara and I have discovered more than anything else is that we have to be intentional, we have to be intentional.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I love the fact that you call this book, The Guide to the Empty Nest, because I think this is an area where we need to be guided.\u00a0 It\u2019s an area where we haven\u2019t been before, as men or as women.\u00a0 And so, to have somebody who has gone down the path and can say, \u201cHere\u2019s what I experienced.\u00a0 Here\u2019s what I saw.\u00a0 Here\u2019s what I felt.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s a great resource.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we\u2019ve got copies of <em>Barbara and Susan\u2019s Guide to the Empty Nest <\/em>in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 Go online to FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 That\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com, or call toll-free 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of the things we really appreciate here at FamilyLife is hearing from listeners \u2013 those of you who get in touch with us and let us know how God has used the ministry of FamilyLife in your life.\u00a0 We hear some great stories about couples who have attended the Weekend to Remember marriage getaway, or now we\u2019re hearing stories from couples who have been to one of our Art of Marriage Video Events, and of course we love hearing from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners who tell us about how this program intersected with them at a strategic moment in their life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you haven\u2019t gotten in touch with us, if you haven\u2019t shared a story with us in awhile, and you\u2019ve got one to share, go online at FamilyLifeToday.com or give us a call and pass it along to us.\u00a0 We\u2019d love to hear from you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd let me just remind you that if you are able this month to help with a donation of any amount to support FamilyLife Today, you will also be helping us take full advantage of a matching gift opportunity that was presented to us back at the beginning of the month \u2013 some friends who said they would match every donation we receive during the month of May on a dollar-for-dollar basis up to a total of $750,000.\u00a0 We\u2019re grateful for their generosity, but in order for us to take advantage of their generosity, we need to hear from you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got a thermometer on our website that keeps you posted on how we\u2019re doing and we still have a ways to go.\u00a0 So if you can make a donation, either online at FamilyLifeToday.com or when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY, that donation is going to be matched on a dollar-for-dollar basis.\u00a0 We hope to hear from you, and want to say, \u201cThanks\u201d in advance for whatever you\u2019re able to do to help support the ministry.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe appreciate you listening, and we appreciate your support.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we\u2019re going to talk about one of the real challenges for moms as they work through the empty nest years, and that\u2019s the challenge of letting go.\u00a0 We'll talk about that tomorrow with Barbara Rainey and Susan Yates.\u00a0 I hope you can be back with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t_______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011FamilyLife. 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like tides, ebb and flow.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-05-19.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u00a0I don't know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 They do?\u00a0 Our engineer, Keith Lynch, says they still sell them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 So it's the gear; you're wanting to know if the guys have a guide for getting gear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u00a0It's a tech guide to the empty nest.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0It is \"John and Dennis's Guide to Gear.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, we're not talking about our gear guidebook; we are talking about <em>Barbara and Susan's Guide to the Empty Nest.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\u00a0Welcome back to Susan Yates and my wife, Barbara.\u00a0 Ladies, welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, we're having fun, thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We are having fun.\u00a0 Susan and her husband, John \u2013 or Johnny, whichever you prefer, have been \u2026\u00a0 Have been speaking at our Weekend to Remember\u00ae\u00a0 marriage conferences for now coming up on a dozen years, Susan.\u00a0 Can you believe? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong> No, it's gone by so fast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 John is an Anglican pastor at one of the oldest churches on the East Coast of Falls Church in Falls Church, Virginia, and Barbara and Susan have teamed up to write this book and, Bob, I really like this book because it's talking about how to really re-engage with your husband in the empty nest.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0And that's what we want to talk about today.\u00a0 Susan, you said when you started this chapter in the book that there were two traps that you saw you could fall into \u2013 what were they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, you know, it was very interesting, Dennis, because I didn't actually give a lot of thought to the empty nest before I hit it.\u00a0 But as I did mull it over, I realized that for me, personally, I could go in one of two directions, neither of which would be very healthy.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the first was that as I approached the empty nest, and the children left, I have realized that I could have a tendency to expect Johnny to fill the emotional void that was going to be walking out of my life when the children left.\u00a0 In other words, I would expect him to make me feel needed, to make me complete, to affirm me, to appreciate me, to understand me.\u00a0 As I mulled that over, I realized, you know, that wasn't the proper response.\u00a0 I couldn't expect him to fill the emotional void that I would now have because the children had left.\u00a0 So that was one tendency.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other extreme that I could go to was this.\u00a0 I could go to well, he will just work more and longer hours, and I will just do my own thing, I'll do my writing and speaking, and we'll sort of connect whenever it's convenient.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Co-exist?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Co-exist.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You actually gave that some thought?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 I felt that could be a possibility \u2013 either I would become too emotionally needy and dependent on him, or I would go the other direction, and I'd think, \"Well, I'll just get very busy with my own life and do my own thing, and he'll do his own thing, and we'll connect whenever it suits,\" and I realized that neither was right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And can I suggest that unless somebody is intentional about where they're going, it's pretty easy to end up in one of those two spots, don\u2019t you think?<br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly.\u00a0 It's one of the things we talked about in the different places in this book is that we, as women, need to be intentional about how we're going to use our lives, how we're going to reinvest in our marriage, how we are going to relate to our adult children.\u00a0 Those things aren't just going to naturally happen in a good way.\u00a0 We have to think through, \"How do we want to do this?\u00a0 What do we want it to look like?\" and then be intentional.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think most men are totally unprepared for what their wives are about to experience as they move into the empty nest.\u00a0 I know I was doing my best to help Barbara as we anticipated it some two-three years in advance; but even my best efforts, I look back on and think, \u201cThis is such a different season.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt just has new temptations and certain things you can\u2019t anticipate, Susan.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know that I would have ever had the thought that I would have been the person to have met Barbara\u2019s emotional needs or that she would have expected me to do that.\u00a0 But I could see how that could happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, that can happen, and I think that can happen through many seasons of our life, because we expect our husbands to make us happy.\u00a0 The reality is, no man can love you as much as you need to be loved.\u00a0 Only God can.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we have to learn to go to God for that, rather than to our husbands first.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let me see if I can kind of bring this down to a practical illustration of how this sense of expectation might occur in a marriage relationship.\u00a0 One of the things that your assignment in life demands of you is that you travel a good deal, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And Barbara, because you've had kids at home, you've traveled some but not a lot because you had to be there for the kids, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did she set you up to ask this question?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou've been reading our mail.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I've been reading the book.\u00a0 Did you have an expectation, Dennis, that when the kids were gone \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2026 Barbara would just be ready, willing, and able \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Without a question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 \u2026 to go on as many or any trips that you wanted her to come along on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, the word is \"all.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0All trips.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 All, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And were you thinking, Barbara, that when the kids were gone, you would get your frequent flyer card out and join your husband?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 And sign up?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 All around the world?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, I did not.\u00a0 I thought I might go on <em>more<\/em> trips.\u00a0 I might travel more but I did not have the expectation or the desire to just switch from being a mom to following him all over the country and doing everything that he did.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's not that I didn't want to spend time with my husband, it's not that I didn't want to join him in things that I had not been able to do previously because of the kids, but I wanted to find out what God equipped me to do, and I didn't want to just switch from following my kids around and helping out with their world to following my husband around and helping him with his world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had this sense of wanting to discover more of who I was because, as Susan was saying in another broadcast, we put our lives on hold so much for our kids, not just our relationships with our friends, but we put our talents and our interests and our gifting on hold, in many ways, in order to raise our kids.\u00a0 And so I saw the empty nest not just as an opportunity to join my husband but also as an opportunity to discover more of what God might have for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I saw it a little bit differently than he did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to make two very important point here, all right?\u00a0 Number one, it took me a while to hear what she just said.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> That's correct.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 As a husband, I had so locked into the idea of her joining me in my pursuit \u2013 and I wouldn't say it was just me being selfish, I just was looking forward to spending time with her and enjoying her company as we would travel, all right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 But for the husband to hear what Barbara just said and for it to click in the brain where he goes, \"Wait a second, she just made the point I didn't want to move from following my kids around to following my husband around.\u00a0 I wanted my own purpose that I could clearly see before God,\" and initially, Bob, I was threatened by that because it was, like, \"Well, isn't my purpose big enough?\u00a0 Our purpose together?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I know some of our listeners have kind of even bowed their backs hearing me say that, but that was my initial response.\u00a0 But after a while, it began to sink in \u2013 my wife needs her own purpose and passion and adventure that goes with mine and that is hers and hers alone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe second thing I want to say is that the trap that Susan mentioned about co-existing \u2013 that would have been the trap that Barbara and I would have fallen into \u2013 two successful people co-existing, keeping busy schedules, Barbara\u2019s more around the home, mine more around out there, and instead of sharing a mutual purpose and having a common objective on the horizon, we could have just co-existed, like you talked about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I think it may be the most common thing a couple experiences, where a wife has been busy with her things, a husband\u2019s been busy with his; there\u2019s been a growing isolation.\u00a0 Now the kids are gone and you look at each other and you\u2019re not sure who the other person is or if you like one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 If you have not been purposeful in maintaining a relationship over the time when the kids are at home, and you think, \u201cWell, we\u2019ll wait \u2018til the kids are gone and then we\u2019ll re-engage that,\u201d it\u2019s going to be <em>very <\/em>difficult.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, Barbara and Susan talk about this in their book; that the relational weaknesses that are in the marriage <em>will<\/em> resurface again in the empty nest years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 In a big way?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 In a big way.\u00a0 That\u2019s why I would say to any couple that's moving in this direction, especially in the childrearing years, and you see the empty nest on the horizon some maybe five, even 10, years in advance, do some good offensive planning.\u00a0 Go to a Weekend to Remember as a couple and begin to elevate your vision of marriage and family beyond the children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, we are hosting these conferences in cities all across the country, and if our listeners are interested in finding out when a conference is coming to a city near where they live, they can go to FamilyLife.com, and there is more information about the conferences there.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd, Barbara, it's important, because the statistics I've seen show that while the divorce rate is high in the first few years of marriage, it kind of goes down for a while and plateaus, but you get to the empty nest, and it pops back up.\u00a0 And if there's not an actual divorce going on, in many cases there are emotional divorces going on, or there are extramarital affairs starting to happen.\u00a0 This is a precarious season for a marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, it's really a dangerous season because you do arrive, and I think all of us arrive at the empty nest.\u00a0 I don't care how good your marriage is, you are going to arrive at the empty nest with some gaps and some places where you missed each other, and there is going to be a sense because even Dennis and I felt it, too, and we \u2013 our vocation is helping people with their marriages.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we arrived at the empty nest, and there were some places where we looked at each other and went, \"Who are you,\" and we felt some gaps.\u00a0 And so it's very important that couples work on their marriages ahead of time but especially when you come to the empty nest, realize that it is going to be one of the adjustments that you will deal with when the kids leave.\u00a0 \u201cHow do I relate to this man?\u00a0 How do we make this marriage stronger and thrive ahead into the future?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Susan, you talked with one woman who was at the empty nest or in the empty nest, and she was experiencing some temptations outside of her marriage.\u00a0 She was honest enough with you to say, \"This is something I'm really struggling with.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong> She was, and it was an interesting thing.\u00a0 A bunch of us were having coffee together around her kitchen table one morning, and she shared with us \u2013 we were all close friends and all growing in our faith, and she had the freedom to say \"I need to share with you a problem I'm having.\u00a0 I find that I am being emotionally attracted to a man who is not my husband.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe's a poet.\u00a0 I'm a writer. We are thrown together because our spouses are in the same profession, so we're together unavoidably quite a bit socially, and we are sharing books, we're sharing thoughts, he's calling me during the week, and I find that many times I feel like he understands me better than my own husband.\u00a0 And nothing has happened beyond that at this point, but I know that I am walking on dangerous ground, and I need to ask you to hold me accountable for ending this relationship.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, as we sat around the table with our coffee, her telephone rang, and she picked up the phone, and her face went ashen white, and she looked into the phone, and then she turned and looked at us, and she said back into the phone, \"I need to ask you not to call me anymore.\u00a0 This relationship is not healthy, and it must end now.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It was the guy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 And it was the guy.\u00a0 And, you know, we marveled at the goodness of God that He would allow that gentleman to call her right when we were sitting there together around the coffee table to be the support that she needed to flee temptation.\u00a0 That was just a great warning to all of us because, for women, most adulterous affairs begin at the emotional level, and we need to flee deep emotional involvement with a man that is not our husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we need to be aware of that as we approach the empty nest in the marketplace; that we need to run towards our husbands and re-engage with <em>them<\/em> emotionally rather than allowing ourselves to be tempted by someone else who appears to understand us better than our own husband does.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So, Barbara, if you were sitting with a woman headed toward the empty nest, and she said, \"You know, our marriage is okay, I mean, it's fine.\u00a0 There are no big gaps. Yeah, there's some distance, there's some isolation, but I guess that's the case for every marriage.\u00a0 But I am a little afraid that once the kids are gone, it's going to feel quiet and lonely, and we're not going to know what to say to each other.\u201d\u00a0 What would you tell her to do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, first, I would tell her that that's going to be normal, to feel like it's quiet and lonely, and you don't know what to say to each other, because I think that's the common experience, and to not be frightened by that; to expect that to be a part of the experience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, secondly, I would say find something that you can participate in with your husband where you can grow your marriage, because I think what Susan just said about reconnecting with your husband on an emotional level is the real answer.\u00a0 Find a way to reconnect with him, because that was what you had in the beginning that so often sort of goes to the background because of the emotional engagement that we have with our children, and so when the empty nest arrives, we need to find ways to reconnect emotionally with our husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo it could be a Weekend to Remember, as we were talking about earlier; it could be reading a book together; it could be joining a couples\u2019 Bible study; it could be even just taking a vacation together when your last one leaves home so that you begin to have common experiences that you are sharing together as a couple, and those things provide cement, and you need to find those.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Like going on trips with him, that kind of thing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm sorry, I was trying to help you out here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you, Bob.\u00a0 I need all the help I can get.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat Barbara is talking about, though - I think Hollywood has done such a great job of creating this romantic myth of what marital love ought to look like, all of our marriage days.\u00a0 We don't have great pictures of what it looks like in this season for a couple to grow old together, and yet when we stood before a pastor, and we promised, what did we promise?\u00a0 To love, honor, cherish, to have and to hold; you had all the promises of through sickness and health and poverty and wealth and all those matters were promised back then, and now you've had a chance to experience it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd it may do well for a couple to simply go back and reaffirm their commitment and the promise they made to one another, and then do something like Barbara is talking about some way to invest in the marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'll never forget seeing a movie that was made by some amateurs, and it was a 30-minute movie.\u00a0 It was a short story; but it was a movie about a couple who were right here, I mean, they were alone.\u00a0 The children had left, and it revealed a lack of relationship.\u00a0 I felt like the story wasn't very realistic because it found them finding hope alone in a log cabin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I'm not sure that's going to happen for most couples.\u00a0 I think what they need to do is to find hope with other couples around the Scriptures and around God's Word, and the experience of a Weekend to Remember and re-pledge their promise to each other, but then get busy building a marriage and a family according to God's blueprints.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 As you were talking, I was thinking about two things.\u00a0 I was thinking, first of all, that connection with a couple that's a few years down the road from you who can say, \"You know, we felt this, we went through this, it's okay.\"\u00a0 That can be so helpful, so encouraging, but the other thing I thought is there needs to be a renaissance of empty nest vow renewal services.\u00a0 You know, what a perfect time for couples to step forward and say, \"Can we rent the church on Friday night or on Saturday, when there's not a wedding going on, and can we just have some friends over and renew our vows?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Or your neighborhood.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, you can do it in your living room, for that matter; but let's start the new chapter of our life with a fresh ceremony that says all the stuff we said we were going to do, we're still going to do it, and now we know better, because we know what it's going to be, but you know what?\u00a0 We still do.\u00a0 And we intend to do until death do us part.\u00a0 What a great way to inaugurate this season of life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And then maybe to take that fresh renewal and to head out on a long vacation together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 In fact, as I remember, you and Johnny did this, headed off on a long vacation, and there was a convertible involved, is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susan:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is true.\u00a0 We decided right before our last child got married, that we were going to be a little sad.\u00a0 We anticipated again that we were going to be a little sad as the last one left.\u00a0 So we borrowed a beach house from friends, and two days after the wedding, we left the house a mess, the thank you notes unwritten, and we went to the beach, and Johnny surprised me by renting a red convertible with the top down - he thought he was 28 again - and we drove off. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd while we were away, we went to a little chapel, and we did go through the wedding ceremony again together, and, you know, it was interesting.\u00a0 In all honesty, as we left to go on this trip, I was a little bit nervous because I thought, \"This is the beginning of something very strange; this is the beginning of just us again, after all of these years of having children, and is it going to feel awkward?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd it did feel awkward for a little bit of time.\u00a0 But being away, we had a week away together where it was just us and, during that time, we could talk about, \"This is the beginning of something fresh, and make a list, okay, what do we want to do in this next season of our lives?\"\u00a0 And just, for the first time, after many years, be able to invest in building that best friendship <em>again<\/em> because the older you get in life, it's the companionship that becomes sweeter and sweeter and sweeter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think what Barbara and I have discovered more than anything else is that we have to be intentional, we have to be intentional.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I love the fact that you call this book, The Guide to the Empty Nest, because I think this is an area where we need to be guided.\u00a0 It\u2019s an area where we haven\u2019t been before, as men or as women.\u00a0 And so, to have somebody who has gone down the path and can say, \u201cHere\u2019s what I experienced.\u00a0 Here\u2019s what I saw.\u00a0 Here\u2019s what I felt.\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s a great resource.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we\u2019ve got copies of <em>Barbara and Susan\u2019s Guide to the Empty Nest <\/em>in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 Go online to FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 That\u2019s FamilyLifeToday.com, or call toll-free 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of the things we really appreciate here at FamilyLife is hearing from listeners \u2013 those of you who get in touch with us and let us know how God has used the ministry of FamilyLife in your life.\u00a0 We hear some great stories about couples who have attended the Weekend to Remember marriage getaway, or now we\u2019re hearing stories from couples who have been to one of our Art of Marriage Video Events, and of course we love hearing from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners who tell us about how this program intersected with them at a strategic moment in their life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you haven\u2019t gotten in touch with us, if you haven\u2019t shared a story with us in awhile, and you\u2019ve got one to share, go online at FamilyLifeToday.com or give us a call and pass it along to us.\u00a0 We\u2019d love to hear from you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd let me just remind you that if you are able this month to help with a donation of any amount to support FamilyLife Today, you will also be helping us take full advantage of a matching gift opportunity that was presented to us back at the beginning of the month \u2013 some friends who said they would match every donation we receive during the month of May on a dollar-for-dollar basis up to a total of $750,000.\u00a0 We\u2019re grateful for their generosity, but in order for us to take advantage of their generosity, we need to hear from you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got a thermometer on our website that keeps you posted on how we\u2019re doing and we still have a ways to go.\u00a0 So if you can make a donation, either online at FamilyLifeToday.com or when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY, that donation is going to be matched on a dollar-for-dollar basis.\u00a0 We hope to hear from you, and want to say, \u201cThanks\u201d in advance for whatever you\u2019re able to do to help support the ministry.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe appreciate you listening, and we appreciate your support.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we\u2019re going to talk about one of the real challenges for moms as they work through the empty nest years, and that\u2019s the challenge of letting go.\u00a0 We'll talk about that tomorrow with Barbara Rainey and Susan Yates.\u00a0 I hope you can be back with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t_______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 2011FamilyLife. 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