{"id":302189,"date":"2011-01-05T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2011-01-05T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/what-a-loving-husband-looks-like\/"},"modified":"2011-01-05T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2011-01-05T17:00:00","slug":"what-a-loving-husband-looks-like","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-a-loving-husband-looks-like\/","title":{"rendered":"What a Loving Husband Looks Like"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What does a loving husband look like?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-01-05.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"38.14M","filesize_raw":"39993367","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2901],"tags":[4868,2877],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[8929],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302189","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-husbands","tag-husband","tag-marriage","cwp_profile-wayne-grudem","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302189\/what-a-loving-husband-looks-like","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302189\/what-a-loving-husband-looks-like","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"ThQcOtYRju\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-a-loving-husband-looks-like\/\">What a Loving Husband Looks Like<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-a-loving-husband-looks-like\/embed\/#?secret=ThQcOtYRju\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;What a Loving Husband Looks Like&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"ThQcOtYRju\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-01-05.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-01-05.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Dr. Wayne Grudem remembers facing a difficult decision:\u00a0 Should he take a new, less prestigious job in a different city so that his wife can experience some possible health benefits from being in a different climate?\u00a0 That\u2019s when Dr. Grudem says God spoke to him through his Word.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dr. Grudem:<\/strong>\u00a0 By virtue of a discipline of daily reading through the Bible in my own personal devotions, on that very day on which the consideration of this possibility was very much the focus of our minds, I came to Ephesians 5:28:\u00a0 \u201cEven so, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLifeToday<\/em> for Wednesday, January 5<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Dr. Wayne Grudem shares with us today an illustration of what loving and leading looks like in marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition.\u00a0 If you were going to put a list together of really smart people who have been on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, this is one of the guys who would be on the list, don\u2019t you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Chuck Colson, Wayne Grudem, Bob Lepine . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Our listeners know.\u00a0 They know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, they do know, and they know that if you got Wayne Grudem and Chuck Colson, it drops many notches before you get to Bob Lepine.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I had the opportunity earlier this year to fly out and spend some time in Phoenix with Dr. Grudem, who teaches at Phoenix Seminary.\u00a0 We had gone out there with a film crew because we were filming a story for our new video event called <em>The Art of Marriage.<\/em>\u00a0 Dr. Grudem had a story that he had shared with us on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\u00a0It\u2019s actually the story our listeners are going to hear him tell today.\u00a0 But we thought this story needs to be a part of what we present to viewers in <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> video event.\u00a0 I should probably explain what <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> video event is, don\u2019t you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I can do that.\u00a0 It\u2019s a six-hour video conference that is hosted by individuals, by couples, by sometimes a pastor, although we\u2019ve designed this really so we don\u2019t add anything to a pastor\u2019s load.\u00a0 We actually want to deploy lay men and women, people who are in the pews to grab hold of this tool and to bring it to their neighborhoods, their churches, their businesses, their communities, maybe join together with multiple churches in a smaller community, and host this and show it.\u00a0 Invite couples to come spend a Friday night and most of Saturday to experience the biblical blueprints for building a marriage and a family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And we\u2019ve already got hundreds of churches and locations that have signed up and said, \u201cOn Valentine\u2019s weekend this year we\u2019re going to host an <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> event Friday night and Saturday.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com and click on <em>The Art of Marriage <\/em>link.\u00a0 You type in your zip code and you can find out where the nearest <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> video event is being hosted.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And, if there\u2019s not one near you, then you can click on a spot and sign up your location and begin to work and see if you can\u2019t bring it to, you know, your basement \u2013 if you\u2019ve got a good flat screen TV down in the basement maybe \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 All you need is . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m not talking about a trashy basement.\u00a0 I\u2019m talking about a playroom or a theatre, Bob.\u00a0 Somewhere that\u2019s got the ability with speakers to really experience a high-quality production.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 All you need is a pretty good screen \u2013 so that\u2019s either a projector and a screen or a monitor, some speakers, a handful of couples \u2013 I mean, you can have four or five couples or you can have ten or twenty couples \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re going to need some chairs.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 And manuals.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019ve got manuals for each person attending.\u00a0 But all the details are on our website, FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 You click on <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> link and it will tell you how to host an event, or where to attend an event.\u00a0 You can see some film clips from <em>The Art of Marriage.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>We\u2019re really excited about that Valentine\u2019s weekend premiere of <em>The Art of Marriage.<\/em>\u00a0 We\u2019ve had some folks who have already previewed this; they\u2019ve given us very favorable feedback on the event, and . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s putting it mildly.\u00a0 They said this is all-time.\u00a0 This is a great experience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And one of the stories we tell in <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> video event is a story that Dr. Wayne Grudem shared with us.\u00a0 It\u2019s really his story, and it\u2019s in the section of the video conference where we\u2019re talking about what it means for a husband to love his wife as Christ loved the church, and what it means for a wife to respect her husband.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDr. Grudem is maybe the leading scholar alive on that subject in Scripture.\u00a0 He has looked at what the Bible has to say about this issue in every portion of Scripture, published papers on this.\u00a0 Of course, he\u2019s best known for his <em>Systematic Theology<\/em> on the whole of the Bible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He\u2019s a seminary professor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We wanted to get his expertise on the subject, but not just his expertise.\u00a0 We wanted to get his own living example of what it looks like for a husband to love his wife well.\u00a0 What our listeners are going to hear today is an expanded version of the story that is featured in about a five-minute clip in <em>The Art of Marriage.<\/em>\u00a0 Here is Dr. Wayne Grudem: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dr. Grudem:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ephesians 5:28 says, \u201cEven so, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies.\u201d\u00a0 For several years my wife Margaret has lived with almost constant pain.\u00a0 This is due to fibromyalgia, a disease that gives pain to major muscle groups, and for which there is presently no known cure.\u00a0 The pain tends to increase and diminish in unpredictable ways, but it is often weather-related.\u00a0 We know that for Margaret, the disease is aggravated by cold weather, as in Chicago winters, and by humidity, as in Chicago summers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn August of 1998 some friends were talking to us, they had been talking to us and they said, \u201cWe have an empty home, a second home that we\u2019re going to use for a retirement home in Mesa, Arizona.\u00a0 If you\u2019d like to take a vacation there, please feel free to do so.\u201d\u00a0 And we did, and we found that Margaret felt much better in the hot, dry climate in the Phoenix area.\u00a0 We returned two other times, in the winter and in the spring, and it was always the same, the pain was substantially eliminated.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt one point Margaret went on a bike ride with me, the first time she had ridden a bike in 12 years, and I remember her saying, \u201cI\u2019d forgotten how much fun this is.\u201d\u00a0 As we talked I said, \u201cMargaret, it would be great to move here, but there\u2019s no job for me here.\u00a0 There\u2019s no seminary in the Phoenix area, and frankly, I\u2019m not trained to do anything else but teach in a seminary.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen a few days later for some reason Margaret was looking through the Yellow Pages and she said, \u201cWayne, there\u2019s something here called Phoenix Seminary.\u201d\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 We literally found it in the Yellow Pages.\u00a0 Well eventually I phoned the academic dean, Steve Tracey, and asked if he might someday have an opening for someone to teach systematic theology.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t a large seminary; including the academic dean it had three full time faculty members.\u00a0 But they seemed interested in the possibility of my coming there.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell then we went to Arizona for a fourth time, in September, and we were more seriously talking to the seminary.\u00a0 I met with some people on campus, and on September 19<sup>th<\/sup>, when we were in the middle of this process of thinking whether this might be right, I came, by virtue of a discipline of daily reading through the Bible in my own personal devotions, on that very day in which the consideration of this possibility was very much the focus of our minds, I came to Ephesians 5:28.\u00a0 \u201cEven so, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies.\u201d\u00a0 I thought, \u201cIf I were living with the pain in my body that Margaret is living with, would I move for the sake of my health?\u201d\u00a0 And I thought, \u201cYes I would.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell if I am to love my wife as I love my own body, then shouldn\u2019t I move for the sake of Margaret\u2019s health as well?\u00a0 It seemed to me that that was the unmistakable implication of this verse.\u00a0 So I was convinced that we should move, but there was a problem.\u00a0 Margaret was not convinced.\u00a0 She did not believe that physical ailments were a reason to give up a ministry that God was blessing.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe had read stories like the story of Mary Slessor, who went to Africa with her own coffin.\u00a0 She went to serve and die.\u00a0 And she had read stories of other missionaries, who had given their lives in the Lord\u2019s service.\u00a0 She thought it was wrong for us to move and for me to relinquish the ministry that God had given me for twenty years now at Trinity, simply for the sake of health \u2013 for the sake of her physical health.\u00a0 So then I came to realize that this situation that we had reached was God\u2019s blessing on our marriage.\u00a0 I wanted to move for her sake, she wanted to stay for my sake. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I realized in fact more fully, looking back on it, that in that process God was allowing us to redo a decision- making process by which we had moved to Trinity from Bethel College in St. Paul, Minnesota, in 1981.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou see when I had an invitation to come and at that time teach New Testament at Trinity, later moved into systematic theology.\u00a0 When I had an invitation to come, it was so exciting to me, I thought God wanted me to teach at a seminary and it was a calling that he had offered to me.\u00a0 Though I had asked Margaret what she thought, honestly, I didn\u2019t listen much at all.\u00a0 Looking back on that I think that I failed to understand that though the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church, a well-functioning head has ears.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd in spite of, I think, some inappropriateness in the way I forced through the decision, God did bring blessing to our time at Trinity, and we are thankful for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut now 20 years later, God was allowing us to work through it again, and now I was listening to Margaret and caring for her, the head had ears, and she was sacrificing her own comfort and even her health to support and encourage my ministry.\u00a0 But we were at an impasse, we didn\u2019t agree.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen something changed.\u00a0 I said to Steve Tracey, the academic dean at Phoenix, \u201cI think it would be right for us to come here, but I\u2019m not going to force that decision, and Margaret doesn\u2019t think it would be right to give up the ministry that I have at Trinity.\u201d\u00a0 Then he said, \u201cYou know Wayne, that\u2019s interesting, because we\u2019ve been talking, and we think if you would come here, we would like you to be a research professor with a reduced teaching load, more time to write, and we think that your writing ministry is a stewardship that we want to nurture and encourage.\u201d\u00a0 There were a number of things that he talked about in that regard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen Margaret heard that she thought, \u201cYou know, this might be perhaps a slightly different ministry, but perhaps an enhancement as well to the ministry that God had given to me.\u201d\u00a0 And she said, \u201cAll right, I have decided what I think about this question of whether to go to Phoenix Seminary.\u00a0 I have decided I am going to trust you to make the right decision.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt that very moment I felt the heavy weight of that responsibility, but it also felt very right, and very biblical.\u00a0 I\u2019m the husband; I have a responsibility for leadership in my family.\u00a0 I could not pass that responsibility to anyone else.\u00a0 It seemed to me that through the whole process a biblical pattern of marriage was working itself out rightly in the process.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I called Phoenix Seminary on that day, and said I would come in good faith for a full interview.\u00a0 One thing led to another.\u00a0 I was honest with them when I got there, and the first question from the faculty was, \u201cWhy would you want to come here?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cLet me make it very clear at the outset.\u00a0 If it were not for my wife\u2019s health, I would not be talking to you.\u201d\u00a0 But as we talked, it seemed that there were many ways in which God had prepared this seminary for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHusbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church, and gave himself up for her.\u00a0 That he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the church to himself in splendor without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.\u00a0 Even so (that <em>pathos<\/em> means just as Christ did,) even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies, he who loves his wife, loves himself.\u00a0 I don\u2019t believe that there is any conflict between following Ephesians 5, \u201chusbands love your wives,\u201d and following God\u2019s call for your ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to say thanks to God himself.\u00a0 He has given me a wonderful privilege of serving at Trinity for twenty years.\u00a0 He has given me another privilege:\u00a0 the privilege of serving him in a new place, and throughout it all, for 31 years now, he has given me the privilege of being married to the most wonderful wife you can imagine, a wife who deeply loves God, who prays, and who loves me as well.\u00a0 Margaret, I love you so much, and I thank God for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I say with David, as I hope you can say every day of your life, \u201cWho am I, oh Lord God, and what is my house that you have brought me thus far?\u00a0 To God alone be glory.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we have been listening together to Dr. Wayne Grudem as he spoke at a chapel service at Southern Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, addressing students and faculty.\u00a0 Many of the staff there, many of the professors, they understood what it meant for Wayne Grudem to step down from his position at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School as the head of the Department of Theology, and to move to Phoenix with his wife, Margaret.\u00a0 From a career standpoint, that was not a forward move.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>No, in fact I wish each of you, as a listener could know Wayne Grudem.\u00a0 Here is a man who holds a Ph.D. from Cambridge, arguably one of the leading New Testament scholars in the world, brilliant.\u00a0 He\u2019s forgotten more than I ever learned.\u00a0 But what you have just heard, what a tender love story, of the knowledge of Scripture not puffing up a heart, but lowering that heart in wisdom to serve his wife.\u00a0 I love the way he concluded, \u201cTo God be the glory.\u201d\u00a0 That is where it belongs, it really is where it belongs.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd for every man who\u2019s listening right now, I\u2019ve got a question for you.\u00a0 Are you willing to ask your wife the following question, \u201cSweetheart, is there anything I need to do to communicate to you that I love you, that I care for you and that you are indeed, a treasure, a gift from God to me?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would challenge every husband to ask his wife that question, and if his wife doesn\u2019t need a 911 call to resuscitate her at that point, be very careful to listen to what your wife says in response to that immediately, or maybe a couple of days later, because she may need to think about it for a while.\u00a0 Our wives need to feel loved, as Margaret Grudem felt loved by her husband Wayne.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When Wayne and Margaret shared this story in <em>The Art of Marriage <\/em>video conference, and we see them interacting and reflecting back on how God led them in this moment, it is interesting for me to watch the faces of the husbands and wives.\u00a0 I think it really puts flesh on a biblical concept.\u00a0 You know, we can talk about how a husband is supposed to love . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 . . . he\u2019s supposed to lead.\u00a0 This gives you an example of how that plays out in a marriage relationship.\u00a0 We\u2019ve had the opportunity with <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> video event, which is a six-session video event that we\u2019ve put together for lay men and women to host in local churches or in communities,\u00a0 a Friday night and Saturday event.\u00a0 It\u2019s kind of a condensed version of the <em>Weekend to Remember\u00ae<\/em> marriage getaway that is portable and easy to put together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You actually designed this, Bob, for individuals to be able to do this and bring to their communities.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we designed it because there were a lot of communities where they live hours away from the nearest <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Which only comes around once a year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 And they kept saying to us, \u201cWe wish there was some way we could do a conference, a <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage getaway<em>,<\/em> in our community, and we said, \u201cWell, let\u2019s see if we can give you something that would be not the exact same event, but many of the key principles presented in a fresh, new way.\u00a0 And that\u2019s what we\u2019ve tried to do with <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> video event.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, it\u2019s kicking off in communities all around the country on Valentine\u2019s weekend, 2-11-11, Friday night and Saturday.\u00a0 We\u2019re excited about the tens of thousands of couples who are going to go out that weekend for what we think is going to be a great weekend experience for them.\u00a0 This really is like no video event you\u2019ve ever seen before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It isn\u2019t.\u00a0 And it\u2019s designed for you and your spouse to host this and bring this to your neighborhood, your church, your community, perhaps your business.\u00a0 We\u2019ve done it in such a way, as you\u2019ve already mentioned, Bob, that it really makes it very easy for a layman to go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the link to <em>The Art of Marriage.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d encourage you to watch the trailer.\u00a0 It\u2019s about three-and-a-half minutes.\u00a0 You\u2019ll get an idea of the compelling nature of the video, the story that\u2019s told, the different techniques used to keep attention and also to teach.\u00a0 It\u2019s not a talking-head video; it\u2019s a fresh approach that interviews a number of experts from around the country.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDr. Grudem is one of them.\u00a0 I think it\u2019s going to make a huge difference in a number of communities around the country where folks who listen to this broadcast have friends who are going through difficulty in their marriage, or they\u2019re thinking about \u201cHow can we make a difference in the marriages and families in our community?\u00a0 We\u2019re really tired of seeing divorce and the breakup of the family take its toll in our children\u2019s lives and in their friends.\u00a0 So we want to bring it to our community.\u00a0 We want to bring it to our church.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I\u2019d just challenge you:\u00a0 Go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> link, and sign up, you and your spouse, to become a host of this event for your community.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you can go online and find out if it\u2019s already being hosted in your community and just sign up to attend, even if it\u2019s at a church that\u2019s not the church you go to.\u00a0 You can sign up and join them and be a part of <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> weekend.\u00a0\u00a0 You\u2019ll get a manual that\u2019s more than 100 pages of articles and information and projects for you to do as you go through the event.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, all of the details can be found online at FamilyLifeToday.com when you click on <em>The Art of Marriage <\/em>link.\u00a0 Or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800 \u201cF\u201d as in Family, \u201cL\u201d as in Life, and then the word \u201cToday,\u201d and you can get more information over the phone about <em>The Art of Marriage. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>I mentioned that there are video clips that are up.\u00a0 One of the clips that\u2019s available online is the story that you\u2019ve heard today, in video form, with Wayne and Margaret Grudem.\u00a0 So check that out online at FamilyLifeToday.com when you click on the link to <em>The Art of Marriage.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And if you pray for us, which I hope you do, would you pray for the hundreds of events that will be scheduled on February 11 and even beyond that date, and the tens of thousands of people who are going to be attending these?\u00a0 There are going to be a lot of marriages, a lot of individuals who meet Jesus Christ person to person and come into a personal relationship with him because this event does contain the gospel.\u00a0 It introduces people into how they can have a personal relationship with Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 Once again our website:\u00a0 FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 You can also get in touch with us by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Now tomorrow, we\u2019re going to spend some time talking about love and romance and passion.\u00a0 We\u2019ll listen in on a question and answer time that listeners had with Dennis and Barbara Rainey and me a while back as we talked about romance in marriage.\u00a0 I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t2011 Copyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["38.14M"],"filesize_raw":["39993367"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302189.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302189.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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does a loving husband look like?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2011-01-05.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Dr. Wayne Grudem remembers facing a difficult decision:\u00a0 Should he take a new, less prestigious job in a different city so that his wife can experience some possible health benefits from being in a different climate?\u00a0 That\u2019s when Dr. Grudem says God spoke to him through his Word.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dr. Grudem:<\/strong>\u00a0 By virtue of a discipline of daily reading through the Bible in my own personal devotions, on that very day on which the consideration of this possibility was very much the focus of our minds, I came to Ephesians 5:28:\u00a0 \u201cEven so, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLifeToday<\/em> for Wednesday, January 5<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Dr. Wayne Grudem shares with us today an illustration of what loving and leading looks like in marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition.\u00a0 If you were going to put a list together of really smart people who have been on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, this is one of the guys who would be on the list, don\u2019t you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Chuck Colson, Wayne Grudem, Bob Lepine . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah.\u00a0 No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Our listeners know.\u00a0 They know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, they do know, and they know that if you got Wayne Grudem and Chuck Colson, it drops many notches before you get to Bob Lepine.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I had the opportunity earlier this year to fly out and spend some time in Phoenix with Dr. Grudem, who teaches at Phoenix Seminary.\u00a0 We had gone out there with a film crew because we were filming a story for our new video event called <em>The Art of Marriage.<\/em>\u00a0 Dr. Grudem had a story that he had shared with us on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\u00a0It\u2019s actually the story our listeners are going to hear him tell today.\u00a0 But we thought this story needs to be a part of what we present to viewers in <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> video event.\u00a0 I should probably explain what <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> video event is, don\u2019t you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I can do that.\u00a0 It\u2019s a six-hour video conference that is hosted by individuals, by couples, by sometimes a pastor, although we\u2019ve designed this really so we don\u2019t add anything to a pastor\u2019s load.\u00a0 We actually want to deploy lay men and women, people who are in the pews to grab hold of this tool and to bring it to their neighborhoods, their churches, their businesses, their communities, maybe join together with multiple churches in a smaller community, and host this and show it.\u00a0 Invite couples to come spend a Friday night and most of Saturday to experience the biblical blueprints for building a marriage and a family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And we\u2019ve already got hundreds of churches and locations that have signed up and said, \u201cOn Valentine\u2019s weekend this year we\u2019re going to host an <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> event Friday night and Saturday.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com and click on <em>The Art of Marriage <\/em>link.\u00a0 You type in your zip code and you can find out where the nearest <em>Art of Marriage<\/em> video event is being hosted.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And, if there\u2019s not one near you, then you can click on a spot and sign up your location and begin to work and see if you can\u2019t bring it to, you know, your basement \u2013 if you\u2019ve got a good flat screen TV down in the basement maybe \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 All you need is . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m not talking about a trashy basement.\u00a0 I\u2019m talking about a playroom or a theatre, Bob.\u00a0 Somewhere that\u2019s got the ability with speakers to really experience a high-quality production.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 All you need is a pretty good screen \u2013 so that\u2019s either a projector and a screen or a monitor, some speakers, a handful of couples \u2013 I mean, you can have four or five couples or you can have ten or twenty couples \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re going to need some chairs.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 And manuals.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019ve got manuals for each person attending.\u00a0 But all the details are on our website, FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 You click on <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> link and it will tell you how to host an event, or where to attend an event.\u00a0 You can see some film clips from <em>The Art of Marriage.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>We\u2019re really excited about that Valentine\u2019s weekend premiere of <em>The Art of Marriage.<\/em>\u00a0 We\u2019ve had some folks who have already previewed this; they\u2019ve given us very favorable feedback on the event, and . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s putting it mildly.\u00a0 They said this is all-time.\u00a0 This is a great experience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And one of the stories we tell in <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> video event is a story that Dr. Wayne Grudem shared with us.\u00a0 It\u2019s really his story, and it\u2019s in the section of the video conference where we\u2019re talking about what it means for a husband to love his wife as Christ loved the church, and what it means for a wife to respect her husband.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDr. Grudem is maybe the leading scholar alive on that subject in Scripture.\u00a0 He has looked at what the Bible has to say about this issue in every portion of Scripture, published papers on this.\u00a0 Of course, he\u2019s best known for his <em>Systematic Theology<\/em> on the whole of the Bible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He\u2019s a seminary professor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We wanted to get his expertise on the subject, but not just his expertise.\u00a0 We wanted to get his own living example of what it looks like for a husband to love his wife well.\u00a0 What our listeners are going to hear today is an expanded version of the story that is featured in about a five-minute clip in <em>The Art of Marriage.<\/em>\u00a0 Here is Dr. Wayne Grudem: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dr. Grudem:<\/strong>\u00a0 Ephesians 5:28 says, \u201cEven so, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies.\u201d\u00a0 For several years my wife Margaret has lived with almost constant pain.\u00a0 This is due to fibromyalgia, a disease that gives pain to major muscle groups, and for which there is presently no known cure.\u00a0 The pain tends to increase and diminish in unpredictable ways, but it is often weather-related.\u00a0 We know that for Margaret, the disease is aggravated by cold weather, as in Chicago winters, and by humidity, as in Chicago summers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn August of 1998 some friends were talking to us, they had been talking to us and they said, \u201cWe have an empty home, a second home that we\u2019re going to use for a retirement home in Mesa, Arizona.\u00a0 If you\u2019d like to take a vacation there, please feel free to do so.\u201d\u00a0 And we did, and we found that Margaret felt much better in the hot, dry climate in the Phoenix area.\u00a0 We returned two other times, in the winter and in the spring, and it was always the same, the pain was substantially eliminated.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt one point Margaret went on a bike ride with me, the first time she had ridden a bike in 12 years, and I remember her saying, \u201cI\u2019d forgotten how much fun this is.\u201d\u00a0 As we talked I said, \u201cMargaret, it would be great to move here, but there\u2019s no job for me here.\u00a0 There\u2019s no seminary in the Phoenix area, and frankly, I\u2019m not trained to do anything else but teach in a seminary.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen a few days later for some reason Margaret was looking through the Yellow Pages and she said, \u201cWayne, there\u2019s something here called Phoenix Seminary.\u201d\u00a0 (Laughter)\u00a0 We literally found it in the Yellow Pages.\u00a0 Well eventually I phoned the academic dean, Steve Tracey, and asked if he might someday have an opening for someone to teach systematic theology.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t a large seminary; including the academic dean it had three full time faculty members.\u00a0 But they seemed interested in the possibility of my coming there.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell then we went to Arizona for a fourth time, in September, and we were more seriously talking to the seminary.\u00a0 I met with some people on campus, and on September 19<sup>th<\/sup>, when we were in the middle of this process of thinking whether this might be right, I came, by virtue of a discipline of daily reading through the Bible in my own personal devotions, on that very day in which the consideration of this possibility was very much the focus of our minds, I came to Ephesians 5:28.\u00a0 \u201cEven so, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies.\u201d\u00a0 I thought, \u201cIf I were living with the pain in my body that Margaret is living with, would I move for the sake of my health?\u201d\u00a0 And I thought, \u201cYes I would.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell if I am to love my wife as I love my own body, then shouldn\u2019t I move for the sake of Margaret\u2019s health as well?\u00a0 It seemed to me that that was the unmistakable implication of this verse.\u00a0 So I was convinced that we should move, but there was a problem.\u00a0 Margaret was not convinced.\u00a0 She did not believe that physical ailments were a reason to give up a ministry that God was blessing.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe had read stories like the story of Mary Slessor, who went to Africa with her own coffin.\u00a0 She went to serve and die.\u00a0 And she had read stories of other missionaries, who had given their lives in the Lord\u2019s service.\u00a0 She thought it was wrong for us to move and for me to relinquish the ministry that God had given me for twenty years now at Trinity, simply for the sake of health \u2013 for the sake of her physical health.\u00a0 So then I came to realize that this situation that we had reached was God\u2019s blessing on our marriage.\u00a0 I wanted to move for her sake, she wanted to stay for my sake. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I realized in fact more fully, looking back on it, that in that process God was allowing us to redo a decision- making process by which we had moved to Trinity from Bethel College in St. Paul, Minnesota, in 1981.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou see when I had an invitation to come and at that time teach New Testament at Trinity, later moved into systematic theology.\u00a0 When I had an invitation to come, it was so exciting to me, I thought God wanted me to teach at a seminary and it was a calling that he had offered to me.\u00a0 Though I had asked Margaret what she thought, honestly, I didn\u2019t listen much at all.\u00a0 Looking back on that I think that I failed to understand that though the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church, a well-functioning head has ears.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd in spite of, I think, some inappropriateness in the way I forced through the decision, God did bring blessing to our time at Trinity, and we are thankful for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut now 20 years later, God was allowing us to work through it again, and now I was listening to Margaret and caring for her, the head had ears, and she was sacrificing her own comfort and even her health to support and encourage my ministry.\u00a0 But we were at an impasse, we didn\u2019t agree.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen something changed.\u00a0 I said to Steve Tracey, the academic dean at Phoenix, \u201cI think it would be right for us to come here, but I\u2019m not going to force that decision, and Margaret doesn\u2019t think it would be right to give up the ministry that I have at Trinity.\u201d\u00a0 Then he said, \u201cYou know Wayne, that\u2019s interesting, because we\u2019ve been talking, and we think if you would come here, we would like you to be a research professor with a reduced teaching load, more time to write, and we think that your writing ministry is a stewardship that we want to nurture and encourage.\u201d\u00a0 There were a number of things that he talked about in that regard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen Margaret heard that she thought, \u201cYou know, this might be perhaps a slightly different ministry, but perhaps an enhancement as well to the ministry that God had given to me.\u201d\u00a0 And she said, \u201cAll right, I have decided what I think about this question of whether to go to Phoenix Seminary.\u00a0 I have decided I am going to trust you to make the right decision.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt that very moment I felt the heavy weight of that responsibility, but it also felt very right, and very biblical.\u00a0 I\u2019m the husband; I have a responsibility for leadership in my family.\u00a0 I could not pass that responsibility to anyone else.\u00a0 It seemed to me that through the whole process a biblical pattern of marriage was working itself out rightly in the process.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I called Phoenix Seminary on that day, and said I would come in good faith for a full interview.\u00a0 One thing led to another.\u00a0 I was honest with them when I got there, and the first question from the faculty was, \u201cWhy would you want to come here?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cLet me make it very clear at the outset.\u00a0 If it were not for my wife\u2019s health, I would not be talking to you.\u201d\u00a0 But as we talked, it seemed that there were many ways in which God had prepared this seminary for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHusbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church, and gave himself up for her.\u00a0 That he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the church to himself in splendor without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.\u00a0 Even so (that <em>pathos<\/em> means just as Christ did,) even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies, he who loves his wife, loves himself.\u00a0 I don\u2019t believe that there is any conflict between following Ephesians 5, \u201chusbands love your wives,\u201d and following God\u2019s call for your ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to say thanks to God himself.\u00a0 He has given me a wonderful privilege of serving at Trinity for twenty years.\u00a0 He has given me another privilege:\u00a0 the privilege of serving him in a new place, and throughout it all, for 31 years now, he has given me the privilege of being married to the most wonderful wife you can imagine, a wife who deeply loves God, who prays, and who loves me as well.\u00a0 Margaret, I love you so much, and I thank God for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I say with David, as I hope you can say every day of your life, \u201cWho am I, oh Lord God, and what is my house that you have brought me thus far?\u00a0 To God alone be glory.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we have been listening together to Dr. Wayne Grudem as he spoke at a chapel service at Southern Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, addressing students and faculty.\u00a0 Many of the staff there, many of the professors, they understood what it meant for Wayne Grudem to step down from his position at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School as the head of the Department of Theology, and to move to Phoenix with his wife, Margaret.\u00a0 From a career standpoint, that was not a forward move.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>No, in fact I wish each of you, as a listener could know Wayne Grudem.\u00a0 Here is a man who holds a Ph.D. from Cambridge, arguably one of the leading New Testament scholars in the world, brilliant.\u00a0 He\u2019s forgotten more than I ever learned.\u00a0 But what you have just heard, what a tender love story, of the knowledge of Scripture not puffing up a heart, but lowering that heart in wisdom to serve his wife.\u00a0 I love the way he concluded, \u201cTo God be the glory.\u201d\u00a0 That is where it belongs, it really is where it belongs.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd for every man who\u2019s listening right now, I\u2019ve got a question for you.\u00a0 Are you willing to ask your wife the following question, \u201cSweetheart, is there anything I need to do to communicate to you that I love you, that I care for you and that you are indeed, a treasure, a gift from God to me?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would challenge every husband to ask his wife that question, and if his wife doesn\u2019t need a 911 call to resuscitate her at that point, be very careful to listen to what your wife says in response to that immediately, or maybe a couple of days later, because she may need to think about it for a while.\u00a0 Our wives need to feel loved, as Margaret Grudem felt loved by her husband Wayne.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 When Wayne and Margaret shared this story in <em>The Art of Marriage <\/em>video conference, and we see them interacting and reflecting back on how God led them in this moment, it is interesting for me to watch the faces of the husbands and wives.\u00a0 I think it really puts flesh on a biblical concept.\u00a0 You know, we can talk about how a husband is supposed to love . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 . . . he\u2019s supposed to lead.\u00a0 This gives you an example of how that plays out in a marriage relationship.\u00a0 We\u2019ve had the opportunity with <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> video event, which is a six-session video event that we\u2019ve put together for lay men and women to host in local churches or in communities,\u00a0 a Friday night and Saturday event.\u00a0 It\u2019s kind of a condensed version of the <em>Weekend to Remember\u00ae<\/em> marriage getaway that is portable and easy to put together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You actually designed this, Bob, for individuals to be able to do this and bring to their communities.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we designed it because there were a lot of communities where they live hours away from the nearest <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway . . .\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Which only comes around once a year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 And they kept saying to us, \u201cWe wish there was some way we could do a conference, a <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage getaway<em>,<\/em> in our community, and we said, \u201cWell, let\u2019s see if we can give you something that would be not the exact same event, but many of the key principles presented in a fresh, new way.\u00a0 And that\u2019s what we\u2019ve tried to do with <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> video event.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, it\u2019s kicking off in communities all around the country on Valentine\u2019s weekend, 2-11-11, Friday night and Saturday.\u00a0 We\u2019re excited about the tens of thousands of couples who are going to go out that weekend for what we think is going to be a great weekend experience for them.\u00a0 This really is like no video event you\u2019ve ever seen before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It isn\u2019t.\u00a0 And it\u2019s designed for you and your spouse to host this and bring this to your neighborhood, your church, your community, perhaps your business.\u00a0 We\u2019ve done it in such a way, as you\u2019ve already mentioned, Bob, that it really makes it very easy for a layman to go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the link to <em>The Art of Marriage.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d encourage you to watch the trailer.\u00a0 It\u2019s about three-and-a-half minutes.\u00a0 You\u2019ll get an idea of the compelling nature of the video, the story that\u2019s told, the different techniques used to keep attention and also to teach.\u00a0 It\u2019s not a talking-head video; it\u2019s a fresh approach that interviews a number of experts from around the country.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDr. Grudem is one of them.\u00a0 I think it\u2019s going to make a huge difference in a number of communities around the country where folks who listen to this broadcast have friends who are going through difficulty in their marriage, or they\u2019re thinking about \u201cHow can we make a difference in the marriages and families in our community?\u00a0 We\u2019re really tired of seeing divorce and the breakup of the family take its toll in our children\u2019s lives and in their friends.\u00a0 So we want to bring it to our community.\u00a0 We want to bring it to our church.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I\u2019d just challenge you:\u00a0 Go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> link, and sign up, you and your spouse, to become a host of this event for your community.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you can go online and find out if it\u2019s already being hosted in your community and just sign up to attend, even if it\u2019s at a church that\u2019s not the church you go to.\u00a0 You can sign up and join them and be a part of <em>The Art of Marriage<\/em> weekend.\u00a0\u00a0 You\u2019ll get a manual that\u2019s more than 100 pages of articles and information and projects for you to do as you go through the event.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, all of the details can be found online at FamilyLifeToday.com when you click on <em>The Art of Marriage <\/em>link.\u00a0 Or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800 \u201cF\u201d as in Family, \u201cL\u201d as in Life, and then the word \u201cToday,\u201d and you can get more information over the phone about <em>The Art of Marriage. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>I mentioned that there are video clips that are up.\u00a0 One of the clips that\u2019s available online is the story that you\u2019ve heard today, in video form, with Wayne and Margaret Grudem.\u00a0 So check that out online at FamilyLifeToday.com when you click on the link to <em>The Art of Marriage.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And if you pray for us, which I hope you do, would you pray for the hundreds of events that will be scheduled on February 11 and even beyond that date, and the tens of thousands of people who are going to be attending these?\u00a0 There are going to be a lot of marriages, a lot of individuals who meet Jesus Christ person to person and come into a personal relationship with him because this event does contain the gospel.\u00a0 It introduces people into how they can have a personal relationship with Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\u00a0 Once again our website:\u00a0 FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 You can also get in touch with us by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Now tomorrow, we\u2019re going to spend some time talking about love and romance and passion.\u00a0 We\u2019ll listen in on a question and answer time that listeners had with Dennis and Barbara Rainey and me a while back as we talked about romance in marriage.\u00a0 I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t2011 Copyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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