{"id":302178,"date":"2010-12-15T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2010-12-15T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-enjoyment-of-pleasure\/"},"modified":"2010-12-15T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2010-12-15T17:00:00","slug":"the-enjoyment-of-pleasure","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-enjoyment-of-pleasure\/","title":{"rendered":"The Enjoyment of Pleasure"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What is pleasure&#8217;s place in a Christian&#8217;s life?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-12-15.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.34M","filesize_raw":"24474671","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[4929,4722,4159],"podcast_series":[7775],"cwp_profile":[3158],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302178","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-christian-life","tag-christianity","tag-gospel","podcast_series-pure-pleasure","cwp_profile-gary-thomas","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302178\/the-enjoyment-of-pleasure","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302178\/the-enjoyment-of-pleasure","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Fya7THfLE9\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-enjoyment-of-pleasure\/\">The Enjoyment of Pleasure<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-enjoyment-of-pleasure\/embed\/#?secret=Fya7THfLE9\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Enjoyment of Pleasure&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Fya7THfLE9\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"What is pleasure's place in a Christian's life?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-12-15.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Do you ever find yourself feeling guilty if you are buying something nice\u2014something that would bless your spouse or even for yourself.\u00a0 Here is pastor and author Gary Thomas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 I found out when we were renting a car one time\u2014nothing makes a northwest suburban mom happier than seat warmers on a cold day.\u00a0 So when we were buying a new car, it wasn\u2019t going to be a minivan; and it was going to have seat warmers.\u00a0 That usually goes with a higher package; and my evangelical guilt is, \u201cHow can I get the cheapest vehicle at the best rate?\u00a0 Any bell and whistle we will add on this, and how can I justify that one?\u00a0 I can be supporting this number of Compassion kids or whatnot.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis was a chance for me to serve my heavenly Father by taking care of His daughter saying, \u201cYou know what, you have been a heroic mom.\u00a0 You have loved me so well as a wife.\u00a0 If having warm seats on a cold day makes you happy, I\u2019m going to get you a seat warmer.\u201d\u00a0 I had to get over that guilt to be willing to spend that money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, December 15th.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey; and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Especially with Christmas coming, how do we find a balance in this issue of enjoying life versus the needs of people all around the world?\u00a0 We are going to talk about that today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I kept expecting to hear you say this week, \u201cIt is our pleasure to have Gary Thomas back with us\u201d; but you didn\u2019t.\u00a0\u00a0 I thought you would fall right into that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 And it is my pleasure to be here!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Way to go!\u00a0 Well, Gary Thomas joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Welcome back, Gary.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He has written a book called <em>Pure Pleasure<\/em>.\u00a0 It has been pleasurable to have you on the broadcast, I would have to say.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We ought to take just a minute before we dive into talking with Gary to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to the listeners who make this program possible.\u00a0 They are the ones who support us and make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> happen each day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 And I just want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d to the folks who give a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>to keep us on the air.\u00a0 I also want to take this opportunity, not only to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d but to invite you to join with us in what has become\u2014well, Bob, a pretty significant challenge.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had a number of families step forward and say, \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 We so believe in the ministry of FamilyLife and <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> that we want to establish the largest matching grant that has ever been made possible in the month of December for FamilyLife.\u00a0 We want to challenge the radio audience to step up and match our gift with a dollar of their own.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That matching gift is a little over $2 million right now.\u00a0 Every time a listener makes a donation\u2014you give $25, we can go and we can draw $25 out of the matching-gift fund.\u00a0 Again, to get to $2 million, that is a little bit of a stretch.\u00a0 That is why we are asking listeners to do whatever you can do here at the end of the year and make a yearend donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And I would encourage you to go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and check out the thermometer and see how we are doing in terms of taking full advantage of that match.\u00a0 You will see, when you go there, we have a ways to go.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI am coming to you today to say, \u201cWould you help us?\u00a0 Would you stand with us?\u201d\u00a0 If you have benefitted from this broadcast\u2014if you like what we do here on <em>FamilyLife Today\u2014<\/em>if you believe, as we do, that the Bible does contain the blueprints for building godly marriages and families and you like what we do here, that you step up and say, \u201cI\u2019d like to participate in your mission.\u00a0 I want to be a part of your ministry.\u00a0 I want to do it in a generous way.\u201d\u00a0 I would like to invite you to do that.\u00a0 I challenge you to do that.\u00a0 In fact, we just need your help.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You can do that online at FamilyLifeToday.com or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY and make a donation over the phone.\u00a0 We do appreciate your financial support, and we appreciate your prayers.\u00a0 Glad to have you on the team.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I agree.\u00a0 I want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d in advance for your help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We have been talking all this week with Gary Thomas about what pure pleasure looks like.\u00a0 I think a lot of us are a little gun-shy around this topic of pleasure because we live in a culture today where the pursuit of pleasure, for many people, has become the ultimate thing.\u00a0 It is the thing that they are pursuing as the most important part of their life.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe grew up in an era where the slogan was, \u201cIf it feels good, do it.\u201d\u00a0 That is not right!\u00a0 It is almost like you are saying, \u201cWell, that is kind of right:\u00a0 \u2018If it feels good, do it.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 So how do we make sense of that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think the church has to get beyond being reactionary.\u00a0 We don\u2019t just do it with pleasure; we do it with things like fitness.\u00a0 The world makes an idol out of a certain type of body type; but, as Christians, we can live from the chin up\u2014where the only thing that matters is, \u201cYou need to agree with me intellectually.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRather than saying, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be like the world,\u201d let\u2019s say, \u201cI want to be like Christ.\u201d\u00a0 Christ embraced good times of relationship.\u00a0 He embraced good times of pleasure.\u00a0 Paul did the same.\u00a0 I think that is where we should set the agenda rather than react to someone else\u2019s agenda, particularly with pleasure.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You had something occur with your son that is kind of a picture of you experiencing pleasure in a family.\u00a0 I think this is a great illustration because we can talk about pleasure in a theological sense, but we need to bring it down where people are living.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour son, evidently, got some of the genes that Bob and I didn\u2019t, which is the \u201crunning gene.\u201d\u00a0 He was trying out for the Washington State High School track meet?\u00a0 His junior year, something happened.\u00a0 Share the story because it is a great illustration.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was actually cross-country.\u00a0 What it was\u2014he got my genes where he enjoys distance running; but unfortunately, I wasn\u2019t able to give him very quick genes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have to make up with sweat and effort what we don\u2019t have in natural gifting.\u00a0 He had been to State with the team, but he really wanted to qualify as an individual in his senior year.\u00a0 Just seeing him be so disciplined and then seeing him when that day came up and all that went before it and watching him come out.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, they go into the woods\u2014it is cross country\u2014it is not the best spectator sport, right?\u00a0 They take off, they might go in the woods and you miss them for five or six minutes and then they come back out.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI am just counting the numbers as they come back out of the woods.\u00a0 He comes out\u2014I\u2019m thinking, \u201cHe has qualified.\u00a0 You know, he can do it if he can hold it.\u201d\u00a0 He doesn\u2019t have the fastest finish\u2014again, because he has his father\u2019s and mother\u2019s genes\u2014but he got out onto the track where they finish and he was actually pulling away from the people behind him because there was no way this was going to be taken away from him.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat moment\u2014for my wife and I, when we just looked at each other\u2014we remembered the time the year before when he had a huge sinus explosion and was literally in the Emergency Room 36 hours before this very race\u2014what had happened over the course of the year, and we looked at each other.\u00a0 There were tears of joy on our faces that he did it!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was such a year-long quest for him to try to get to State on his own.\u00a0 That is a moment my wife and I will never be able to share with anyone else.\u00a0 It knit us together.\u00a0 It knit us there as a family; we were there to see Graham do it.\u00a0 He came back and we were hugging each other.\u00a0 We were happy!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt certainly was a physical effort but the spiritual joy in that moment was immense for our family.\u00a0 It is one of those moments my wife and I look back on\u2014I\u2019ll never share that with another woman.\u00a0 She will never share that with another man.\u00a0 Some might say, \u201cWould you have been just as happy if he didn\u2019t qualify for State?\u201d\u00a0 That is the Christian-thing to do.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just want to say, \u201cThis wasn\u2019t a test of my piety.\u00a0 Can\u2019t I just thank God that I am so grateful that a young man gave it his best\u2014it worked out.\u00a0 We thanked God.\u00a0 We were proud of Graham.\u00a0 We shared that joy and we could just say, \u201cLord, You are a good God.\u201d\u00a0 That has built our family together\u2014experiencing that together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 One thing as you were telling that story, I was just thinking, those who get a divorce end up dividing those memories.\u00a0 They lose the shared experience of having been there together\u2014looking at some accomplishment of their child.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, that is not what you had in mind when you write in your book how God gives us pleasure to keep us out of the bad.\u00a0 I\u2019m thinking that God gives us shared experiences\u2014family memories\u2014I tried to list a number of things that brought me pure pleasure in my lifetime.\u00a0 I went into a whole category, as I listed them, of family vacations and family experiences.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn a very real sense, those shared memories brought Barbara and me together.\u00a0 They don\u2019t keep us together because it is our pledge and our promise that keep us together, but it is the fruit of staying together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 There is a story I tell that I see the men salivate when they hear what this wife did.\u00a0 A very hard-working man gets up early\u2014has an early shift\u2014gets home about 2 PM.\u00a0 He comes home one March, and he loves to watch March Madness, the NCAA college basketball championships.\u00a0 I know a lot of wives dread those weekends, but it is wonderful the gift she gave her husband.\u00a0 He came home; she had cooked his favorite snack; she had put a chair right in front of the television with his favorite drink...\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What time was it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was in the afternoon on a Thursday.\u00a0 The tournament was just starting.\u00a0 She said, \u201cYou have been working so hard; we depend on you so much.\u00a0 Today, tell me if your drinks go empty; tell me if you are out of the snacks.\u00a0 I just really want you to enjoy yourself this weekend.\u201d\u00a0 He is just crowing about this.\u00a0 He is just beaming.\u00a0 These other guys are just salivating.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJust by saying, \u201cI know you take great pleasure in this; I want to give you this pleasure.\u201d\u00a0 The way that can build up a marriage because it is so easy for us to look at what our spouse isn\u2019t giving us or look at him through the lenses of expectation or just, quite frankly, to forget how much this person offers to you because we take for granted what they do give us and become blinded to it.\u00a0 Just to take time out to say, \u201cHow can I really become a servant of my wife\u2019s joy?\u201d\u00a0 For women, \u201cHow can I be a servant of my husband\u2019s joy?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMost of us know, \u201cWhat would our spouse really enjoy?\u201d\u00a0 We can\u2019t do this every day.\u00a0 We can\u2019t do it every week, but shouldn\u2019t there be a point\u2014at least once a month\u2014where we say, \u201cHow do I really give my spouse pleasure?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cHow do I really give pleasure to my child?\u201d\u2014instead of just saying, \u201cHave you cleaned your room?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cHave you gotten in trouble with this?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cHave you done your homework?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cHey, can we go do this?\u201d or \u201cCan I get you a bowl of this?\u201d or \u201cCan I bake this for you?\u201d\u00a0 The power of pleasure to renew those relationships really can\u2019t be overstated.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 For a number of years I challenged men, when I have had a chance to speak to them, and said, \u201cDo you know what your wife\u2019s three greatest needs are?\u201d\u00a0 You have men who go, \u201cNo!\u201d\u00a0 I say, \u201cYou know what, just ask her.\u201d\u00a0 Don\u2019t tell her Dennis Rainey told you to ask her, \u201cWhat your greatest needs are?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, what you are talking about here is a new category.\u00a0 Instead of asking what your wife\u2019s greatest needs are, step back and say, \u201cWhat would bring your wife the greatest pleasure?\u201d\u00a0 Think of three things\u2014three ways you as her husband can bring her delight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor Barbara, it would be somehow giving her some time to be able to do water colors or her oil paintings.\u00a0 Give her a workshop; give her some time off to go do that.\u00a0 That completely fills her tank.\u00a0 She delights in those times.\u00a0 Barbara, I hope you are not listening to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Is there something coming?\u00a0 Is that what you are trying to say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, there might be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 It took me a while to get over some of the guilt in offering my wife some of those pleasures.\u00a0 A classic case is when my wife was done with minivans.\u00a0 We had had this trusty work horse of a minivan for years.\u00a0 Didn\u2019t have much money when we bought it so it had manual windows\u2014none of the bells or whistles, but it had been a great car.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI could just tell my wife was done with it.\u00a0 We were past the car-seat age; she was done with minivans.\u00a0 When we were looking at finally replacing that vehicle because traveling so much, I didn\u2019t want to have a car that might break down when I was out of town.\u00a0 I wanted something that was reliable.\u00a0 I found out when we were renting a car one time\u2014nothing makes a northwest suburban mom happier than seat warmers on a cold day.\u00a0 She loved it; she thought it was so great.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo when we were buying a new car, it wasn\u2019t going to be a minivan; and it was going to have seat warmers.\u00a0 That usually goes with a higher package; and my evangelical guilt is, \u201cHow can I get the cheapest vehicle at the best rate?\u00a0 Any bell and whistle we will add on this, and how can I justify that one?\u00a0 I can be supporting this number of Compassion kids or whatnot.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBoy, we want to do all of that.\u00a0 This was just a chance for me to serve my heavenly Father by taking care of His daughter saying, \u201cYou know what, you have been a heroic mom.\u00a0 You have loved me so well as a wife.\u00a0 You pour yourself out for your family.\u00a0 If having warm seats on a cold day makes you happy, I\u2019m going to get you a seat warmer.\u201d\u00a0 I had to get over that guilt to be willing to spend that money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Talk to me about that guilt because I\u2019ll feel it at times, too.\u00a0 We just replaced carpeting in our home\u2014we had carpeting that was thread-bare\u2014there were nails sticking through and it was stained and groaty.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Nails sticking through?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 There were nails sticking through the carpet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it was time for you to replace the carpet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That is what I thought, too.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYet, you look at that and you look at the expense of replacing carpet and you think, \u201cOkay, what could this money go toward to advance the Kingdom?\u00a0 How many people don\u2019t have a roof over their head, and I am getting new carpet.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTell me how I deal with that in a way\u2014you know, some people will just go and take vows of poverty and live their lives\u2014that is their response.\u00a0 How do we understand that biblically?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 First, I am really glad you deal with that.\u00a0 I think there are some wonderful things with that.\u00a0 I think every Christian should wrestle with that.\u00a0 We can take this to the point where we are deaf to God\u2019s cries to care sacrificially for the poor and the proclamation of the Gospel, but I like John Calvin\u2019s warning that there is a point where we can take it so far\u2014it distorts our view of God and it becomes an imprisonment in our thinking.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe says that a person says, \u201cI can\u2019t have fine dishes; well then, I shouldn\u2019t have any dishes at all.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cInstead of having meat, I should only have beans; but then maybe I should just have bread.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want first-day bread when I can get day-old bread.\u201d\u00a0 You can get to the point where you can\u2019t embrace anything God would offer.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYet, when you look in the Old Testament\u2014about God\u2019s desire to lead Israel into a land of milk and honey\u2014a passage in Deuteronomy tells them to set aside a portion of their tithe to get whatever their heart desires\u2014good food, even strong drink\u2014it says\u2014\u201cand eat it there in the presence of the Lord, rejoicing in Him.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is a fine line.\u00a0 For me\u2014when I was talking about personal pleasure\u2014when I became serious about Starbucks, I dropped my membership at United Airlines\u2019 Red Carpet Club.\u00a0 I am trying to trade dollar for dollar.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI am saying, \u201cYou don\u2019t have to do either\u201d; but I do think we could say there are sacrifices we need to make.\u00a0 I take Calvin\u2019s warning as a friend because I think I have that obsessive quality that could take it too far.\u00a0 Quite frankly, I really don\u2019t care about my carpeting.\u00a0 My letting it go, as I would let it go, doesn\u2019t serve my wife who really does care about the carpeting.\u00a0 It matters to her.\u00a0 It is not a sacrifice for me to live with worn carpeting\u2014I don\u2019t even notice it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I do think, as I read through the Scriptures, God gives blessing.\u00a0 He goes to Solomon, \u201cHere\u2019s a bunch of money; and enjoy!\u201d\u00a0 It is not so much, \u201cHere is money.\u00a0 Let me see how you handle it and decide whether I think you are worthy or not.\u201d\u00a0 It really has to do with where our heart is and how that directs our lives, don\u2019t you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 I do.\u00a0 I think we have to live with the tension.\u00a0 I think that is part of living in community.\u00a0 I think sometimes we need to say, \u201cAm I getting unbalanced here?\u201d because I don\u2019t want to lose that sense of, \u201cAm I living\u2014not just generously toward the Gospel\u2014but at times sacrificially?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn the other hand, sometimes a small group might say, \u201cYou guys really need to take a vacation.\u201d\u00a0 Without guilt, you need to get away.\u00a0 You might need to spend a few dollars, but do that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, when I look back on our family life, I think I let evangelical guilt steal some of those moments.\u00a0 We didn\u2019t have the kind of vacations I have seen other families have that I wished we would have because, \u201cWe are not going to be one of those families that have a second home or splurge for the expensive vacations.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember one summer, when we realized we were getting close to being empty-nesters; I cashed in some frequent-flyer mileage.\u00a0 We went to Hawaii\u2014just being together for two weeks.\u00a0 I had to put an ocean between us because we knew if we were home\u2014what we always would do\u2014the kids would call or text, \u201cHey, can I just go out for a couple of hours?\u201d and it is hard to say, \u201cNo,\u201d\u2014so putting an ocean between us and everybody we know.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLooking back, we were buying family time and family memories.\u00a0 I think that honored God.\u00a0 I think at times we went too far the other way.\u00a0 As a family, when you are spending money to buy time together\u2014if that is how you look at it\u2014I think that is a good investment.\u00a0 If a second home in the mountains gives you lifetime memories of your family together on regular weekends, I think that could be a very God-honoring choice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0Gary, I think it is really interesting that believers or followers of Christ should be the most content\u2014we should be the most satisfied\u2014we should be the most pleasant, fun-loving people\u2014quite honestly in the midst of challenges that we face.\u00a0 Many times we aren\u2019t.\u00a0 I think it is this internal struggle that you are talking about that we need help in.\u00a0 It really is traced back to our view of God.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cDid God create us to enjoy pleasure?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cIs He a God who delights in us when we enjoy His creation?\u201d\u00a0 The answer is, \u201cAbsolutely!\u00a0 It is absolutely the truth.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think of Romans 8 where it says, \u201cWhat shall separate us from the love of God?\u201d\u00a0 A God who loves us and delights in us really does want us to enjoy our children, enjoy our spouse, take great delight and pleasure in our grandchildren.\u00a0 God is not a fuddy-duddy.\u00a0 He is a God who gives good gifts to His children.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPersonally, I have to admit, when I picked your book up, I thought, \u201cNow, what is Gary Thomas doing writing a book on <em>Pure Pleasure<\/em>?\u201d\u00a0 The subtitle, I think, really helps unpack what you are after.\u00a0 You just hit it on it here.\u00a0 <em>Why Do Christians Feel So Bad about Feeling Good?<\/em>\u00a0 You know, that is not in the Scripture word for word; but the meaning of that question you ask is, \u201cI think God does want us to feel good and not feel bad about what He has given us.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou have helped us here on the broadcast.\u00a0 I just appreciate you coming and joining us.\u00a0 I hope you come back again soon and join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 You are a good preacher, a good writer, and a good friend.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\u00a0 I am honored.\u00a0 It is always a delight to be with you guys.\u00a0 Thank you for the opportunity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think, for a lot of our listeners, this has been a helpful, good course-correction as you think about life, enjoyment, pleasure, and why we are here.\u00a0 \u201cWhat it is like to live in radical obedience to Christ and does pleasure fit into that?\u201d\u00a0 I think you have helped us examine that a little more carefully and biblically.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to encourage listeners\u2014we have copies of Gary\u2019s book, <em>Pure Pleasure<\/em>, in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about how to get a copy of the book.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com or call us toll-free:\u00a0 1-800-FLTODAY is the number.\u00a0 (1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in Family, \u201cL\u201d as in Life, and then the word \u201cTODAY\u201d; 1-800-358-6329)\u00a0 Get in touch with us, and we will make arrangements to get a copy of Gary\u2019s book sent to you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we are just about the halfway point through the month of December; and we are very appreciative.\u00a0 We have had a lot of our listeners who have gotten in touch with us over the last couple of weeks.\u00a0 They heard about the matching-gift challenge that Dennis talked about at the beginning of today\u2019s program.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had friends of the ministry who came and offered to match every donation that we receive during the month of December on a dollar-for-dollar basis.\u00a0 When you make a donation of $20, $30, $50, $100, $500, or $1,000 to support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, they are going to double that donation up to a total of now a little more than $2 million that has been pledged to the matching-gift fund.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMany of our listeners have already gotten in touch with us and said Dennis:\u00a0 \u201cWe appreciate the program.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWe want to make sure it stays on our local radio station.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cGod has used <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> in a big way in our lives, in our marriage, and in our family.\u201d\u00a0 So they made a donation in support of the ministry, and we appreciate that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to encourage you, \u201cIf God has used this ministry in your life, would you consider making a yearend donation to support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>?\u201d\u00a0 You can make that online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 When you do, that donation is going to be matched dollar-for-dollar.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope to hear from you between now and the end of the year.\u00a0 In fact, we want to encourage you not to put it off.\u00a0 If you can make the donation today, then either go online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Let me say, \u201cThanks,\u201d in advance for whatever you are able to do in support of this ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to encourage you to be back with us tomorrow.\u00a0 We are going to introduce you to a couple that have been hanging out at the mall a lot lately.\u00a0 They haven\u2019t been shopping.\u00a0 They have a unique ministry going on in their local mall.\u00a0 They will be here to share about it with us tomorrow.\u00a0 I hope you can be here.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t2010 Copyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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