{"id":302176,"date":"2010-12-13T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2010-12-13T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-power-of-pleasure\/"},"modified":"2010-12-13T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2010-12-13T17:00:00","slug":"the-power-of-pleasure","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-power-of-pleasure\/","title":{"rendered":"The Power of Pleasure"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Does God frown on our pleasures?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-12-13.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"26.87M","filesize_raw":"28175121","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822],"tags":[4929,4722,4159],"podcast_series":[7775],"cwp_profile":[3158],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302176","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-christian-life","tag-christianity","tag-gospel","podcast_series-pure-pleasure","cwp_profile-gary-thomas","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302176\/the-power-of-pleasure","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302176\/the-power-of-pleasure","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"dUksLqIti9\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-power-of-pleasure\/\">The Power of Pleasure<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-power-of-pleasure\/embed\/#?secret=dUksLqIti9\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Power of Pleasure&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"dUksLqIti9\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Does God frown on our pleasures?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-12-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 They\u2019re raising the kids, paying the bills, making sure the roof isn\u2019t leaking.\u00a0 They\u2019ve stopped enjoying each other.\u00a0 They\u2019ve stopped taking pleasure in each other.\u00a0 Then, here is what happens: you can last for awhile but eventually they start to find pleasure in someone else.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSuddenly, they\u2019re so thirsty.\u00a0 It is such a rush to finally experience pleasure they make the fatal mistake.\u00a0 When what they really need is to enjoy times with their current spouse.\u00a0 They could have that same pleasure with their family without destroying their family.\u00a0 They\u2019ve so become utilitarian in their marriage they don\u2019t even connect pleasure in their marriage, and that is what ends it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, December 13<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Gary Thomas joins us today to talk about how we ought to understand pleasure.\u00a0 God\u2019s design and purpose for it in our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I have to tell you a story real quick.\u00a0 I taught through the book of Ecclesiastes a number of years ago.\u00a0 I remember studying it and teaching through it.\u00a0 It is not an easy book to teach because there is a lot of stuff you read in there and go, \u201cI don\u2019t think that is true.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You have to understand the context of what is being said.\u00a0 As a part of my preparation for teaching it, I listened to a tape series on Ecclesiastes from Tommy Nelson, the pastor at Denton Bible Church.\u00a0 The thing that sticks out if you listen to Tommy\u2019s series on Ecclesiastes is \u201cLife is hard; so, eat rocky road.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 That is kind of his big thesis statement.\u00a0 Just\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He actually said that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Just eat a lot of rocky road.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I could go to his church.\u00a0 I could go to his church; I guarantee you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But what he is saying is that there is nothing wrong with enjoying life and the good things that God has given us in life.\u00a0 I think that\u2019s not only part of the message of the book of Ecclesiastes, but I think it is a part of what all of us need to catch a vision for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It goes back to who God is, what He is all about, and how He created us.\u00a0 We\u2019ve got a guest who joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 A rocky road eater, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He is.\u00a0 He is.\u00a0 He is also kind of a rocky writer too because he likes to stir the pot.\u00a0 I\u2019ve kind of watched this about him.\u00a0 Gary Thomas joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Gary welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you guys.\u00a0 Great to be back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You do like to stir the pot, don\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, it is a little bit fun.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You kind of like to poke at stuff.\u00a0 You\u2019ve poked at something pretty serious this time.\u00a0 I will explain that to our listeners in just a moment.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to step in here and have a heart to heart with those who listened to our broadcast.\u00a0 I just need to ask them for their help.\u00a0 It is December; it is the time when FamilyLife is really counting on its listeners to step up and make a donation to keep <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> on this station or keep coming to you as a podcast.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just need to ask you if you\u2019d step up and be a part of a matching gift that has been made to FamilyLife.\u00a0 In fact, Bob, it is the largest matching gift in the history of our ministry.\u00a0 It is so large that it is stretching our listeners to be able to make sure that we meet the matching challenge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It is actually a little over $2,000,000.\u00a0 To take full advantage of that, it is a dollar for dollar match.\u00a0 So, when a listener makes a $20 donation, we get to take $20 out of the matching gift fund.\u00a0 When a listener makes a $100 donation, we get a $100 from the matching gift fund.\u00a0\u00a0 To get all the way up to $2,000,000, we need a lot of listeners to be as generous as they can be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We do.\u00a0 So, I\u2019m just coming to you today and saying, \u201cWould you help us?\u00a0 I need your help.\u201d\u00a0 I might ask if you like Bob or me.\u00a0 I\u2019m just asking if you like <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Do you like what we do here on this broadcast?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou believe as we do that the family today is in serious trouble, and if there has ever been a time when we needed to return to the Book and the God of the Book that you want to stand with us?\u00a0 You want to keep this broadcast coming to you every week day and making a difference here in this community as well as hundreds of communities around the country?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You can make a donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY and make a donation by phone.\u00a0 Again, you will help us take advantage of this matching gift opportunity.\u00a0 We want to say thanks in advance for whatever you\u2019re able to do.\u00a0 We hope you will pray for us as well and support us in that way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, let me get us back to what we are going to talk about today.\u00a0 Maybe some of our listeners don\u2019t know Gary Thomas although he has been with us before on <em>FamilyLife<\/em> <em>Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He has been on the faculty of Western Seminary.\u00a0 He and his wife Lisa and three children just have recently moved from Bellingham, WA to Houston, TX.\u00a0 He is a writer in residence at Second Baptist Church of Houston.\u00a0 He has written a book called <em>Pure Pleasure.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>Pure Pleasure<\/em>, Gary.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, you know, you have to know that you are touching on something that I\u2019m really glad you wrote about because I grew up in a little bit of community where God was a fuddy-duddy.\u00a0 He didn\u2019t want you smiling too much, laughing too much.\u00a0 Christianity was\u2014I hate to say this\u2014but it really wasn\u2019t a feel good religion.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, some of that was my own character as I grew up as a young man.\u00a0 Some of it was earned because there was a lot of finger pointing and kind of shaming people about certain things.\u00a0 Is that where we get some of our feelings that maybe experiencing pleasure isn\u2019t good?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think so.\u00a0 Christians tend to be suspicious of pleasure at best and outright hostile to it at worst.\u00a0 When you are writing a book, you\u2019ll often go on to Amazon to check out the names, the titles; so, that if somebody else has that title.\u00a0 When you put in \u201cpure pleasure\u201d in any search engine\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We all know where you\u2019ll end up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 There was an ache in my heart that we have completely given pleasure over to the other side, if I could speak that way.\u00a0 People assume pleasure is something illicit, something that offends God.\u00a0 Yet, we serve a God who created pleasure, who created bodies that are uniquely gifted to receive pleasure of all kinds.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWith sight: be stunned by architecture, looking at a mountain.\u00a0 Hearing: some people are so in tune with intricacies of music.\u00a0 Smell, touch.\u00a0 God created our bodies to receive pleasure, and we act as if pleasure is something God is against.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What do you think God was up to when He decided, \u201cYou know what? I\u2019m just going to create these human beings with enormous capacities to experience pleasure.\u201d\u00a0 What was He thinking?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, you\u2019ve got the Bible; you\u2019ve been studying this.\u00a0 Speak if you would, if you can, I know it is a little dangerous to speak on behalf of God here, but what do the Scriptures reveal here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 Embracing pleasure from a biblical perspective, seeing it as something that God created, and that God endorses and is enthusiastic about has done three things for me.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe first thing and the main thing to answer your question is it has turned me into a much more vigorous worshipper, and a much more frequent worshipper.\u00a0 Instead of always looking at \u201cOh, that\u2019s got too many calories\u201d, it is \u201cLord you made chocolate, you made taste buds; and when they come together, you know, sometimes it is amazing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Are you saying chocolate can turn your heart toward God?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, when you reckon that He created taste, He created the fact that we can have it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Go ahead and say it, Gary.\u00a0 You are saying yes, chocolate can turn your heart toward God.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 I often said that whoever created the M&amp;M blizzard must have been a Christian.\u00a0 I think it takes the Holy Spirit to come up with that kind of inspiration.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, that is one.\u00a0 So, it allows us to worship God in a greater dimension.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\u00a0 In all ways, we can recognize them as gifts of God.\u00a0 The second thing it does, I think, it serves relationships and marriage and parenting.\u00a0 When I talk to so many couples that are falling apart\u2014you guys probably hear this all the time\u2014\u201cI love you, but I\u2019m no longer in love with you.\u201d\u00a0 I can\u2019t tell you how many spouses will send me e-mails that, that\u2019s what they\u2019ve heard.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn most cases, their marriage has become utilitarian.\u00a0 They\u2019re raising the kids, paying the bills, making sure the roof isn\u2019t leaking.\u00a0 They\u2019ve stopped enjoying each other.\u00a0 They\u2019ve stopped taking pleasure in each other.\u00a0 Then, here is what happens: you can last for awhile, you can coast, you can do that; but eventually they start to find pleasure in someone else: somebody at the office, somebody connects with them through Facebook.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSuddenly, they are so thirsty.\u00a0 It is such a rush to finally experience pleasure; they make the fatal mistake of assuming that what they need is this pleasure.\u00a0 When what they really need is to enjoy times with their current spouse.\u00a0 They could have that some pleasure with their family without destroying their family.\u00a0 They have so become utilitarian in their marriage; they don\u2019t even connect pleasure and their marriage.\u00a0 That is what ends it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think it is one of the reasons why in marital counseling often a counselor will say, \u201cTell me about when you were dating.\u201d\u00a0 There is an attempt to go back and link up the experience of pleasure that most of us had when we were dating before it became utilitarian and say, \u201cLook there was pleasure between the two of you.\u00a0 There was joy in the midst of this.\u00a0 This person hasn\u2019t changed that much; it is just that the circumstances in life have changed.\u00a0 There is still pleasure to be found there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is a real temptation in parenting because our kids can start to feel like projects.\u00a0 Projects are something that you launch.\u00a0 When we are not taking time to enjoy them, then our kids treat us utilitarian.\u00a0 Have you as a family been as conscientious about how do we enjoy our weekend together as much as how do we have devotions together, are we going to church together, are we making sure the beds are made?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes. All the check off stuff, all the chores.\u00a0 You just lose the delight of having children and being caught up in the moment.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOkay, so you\u2019ve said pleasure is for the purpose of worship, it is for the purpose of relationships, what is the third?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think it builds our personal integrity.\u00a0 We become more vulnerable to illicit pleasure when our souls aren\u2019t filled with godly pleasure or pure pleasure as I put it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had an experience in one of my first trips to Houston that taught me this.\u00a0 I went out for an afternoon run because I spoke in the morning and the evening.\u00a0 I flew in from Seattle which is never very hot, never very humid.\u00a0 Decided I was going to go for a six mile run which in Seattle is no big deal.\u00a0 Would never even think about carrying water, but this was 95 degrees, 90 percent humidity.\u00a0 So, I set off.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAfter fifteen minutes, I couldn\u2019t believe how thirsty I could get; I pass a half drunk bottle of Coke lying in the ditch and actually pause.\u00a0 No, that is too gross. I\u2019ve got to move on.\u00a0 It amazed me that I would even consider because I was that thirsty.\u00a0 After thirty minutes, I was thinking this is life threatening.\u00a0 I saw a woman in front of her house with a hose coiled up in front of it.\u00a0 I walked up and said, \u201cI\u2019m so embarrassed.\u00a0 I\u2019m not from here.\u00a0 Didn\u2019t realize how thirsty I could get.\u00a0 Can I take a drink from your hose?\u201d\u00a0 She said, \u201cSure.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI turn on the faucet and who knows how long that water had been sitting in the hose, but put it up to my mouth and take in the most bacteria encrusted rubbery tasting water you could imagine.\u00a0 All the while, this voice in the back of my head saying, \u201cGary, you are so going to regret this.\u00a0 Three hours from now the gastrointestinal distress you are going to bring into your life is excruciating.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere is thing:\u00a0 I didn\u2019t care.\u00a0 I was so thirsty.\u00a0 I said, \u201cYou know what?\u00a0 I know I am likely to get sick.\u00a0 I need to stop this thirst now.\u00a0 I could fault myself now with a full bottle of water in front of me.\u00a0 Why would I even think of drinking something so gross?\u00a0 Or I could say, \u201cWhy did I let myself get in that situation where I was so thirsty, I was tempted by something that should have been repugnant to me?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I applied that to sin, I realized that a lot of us we let our relationships die, we let our enjoyment and pleasure in life die.\u00a0 So, we can coast for awhile\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We get bored, don\u2019t we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 We do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We are looking for something exciting and look around.\u00a0 There is plenty of it around.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 The interesting thing is if we don\u2019t find pleasure in doing it God\u2019s way, we then as you\u2019ve just said rightly, we move it over to doing it the world\u2019s way.\u00a0 Therein lies the danger.\u00a0 It is not that pleasure is wrong, but there are wrong kinds of pleasure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019m thinking back to my freshman year of college when I took a class that was called\u2014I think it was called Contemporary Moral Issues.\u00a0 I thought it was going to be like high school where you just read something out of the paper and wrote essays.\u00a0 I thought this will be a breeze.\u00a0 It was really Freshman Philosophy.\u00a0 They just didn\u2019t want to call it Philosophy 101.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we are reading all of these ancient philosophers.\u00a0 I\u2019m going, \u201cWhere are the contemporary moral issues in this?\u201d\u00a0 I remember that is where I learned about Hedonism.\u00a0 I learned about Jeremy Bentham and his Hedonistic Calculus and how the ultimate goal in life is the pursuit of pleasure.\u00a0 That is what Hedonism says.\u00a0 Are you saying Bentham was right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\u00a0 The pursuit of life is enjoying God, but pleasure helps me understand God.\u00a0 Here is what I think we have to do.\u00a0 It teaches me to worship God the Creator.\u00a0 As Christians, we like to acknowledge God the Redeemer; so, we do redemptive kinds of things.\u00a0 We will read the Bible, we will sing worship songs, we want to share our faith.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we recognize God as Creator and enjoy the things of the earth that He created us to enjoy in the way He created us to enjoy them\u2014as you were mentioning before, Dennis\u2014I think that can become a form of worship.\u00a0 When we recognize that God is for us and so He has given us many good things, pleasure helps me to enjoy God.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tUltimately, I am pursuing God.\u00a0 It is just God happens to be a kind God, a generous God, a God of pleasure.\u00a0 So, pleasure is always the fruit of pursuing God because if God isn\u2019t the end.\u00a0 This is where I think Bentham was wrong.\u00a0 If God isn\u2019t the end, my pleasures will ultimately become my slave masters and my misery.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 They\u2019ll be an idol that you\u2019ll be in pursuit of rather than leading you to the God we should be worshipping.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 They will destroy me rather than build me up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, I\u2019m enjoying listening to you guys talk about this philosopher I\u2019ve never heard of at all, but here is my practical question.\u00a0 I like peanut butter and chocolate.\u00a0 Now I don\u2019t eat it very often.\u00a0 How is it that I\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You like that Haagen-Dazs Deep Chocolate Peanut Butter?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh my goodness.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 That is pretty good too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Peanut butter and chocolate, I\u2019m just telling\u2014I\u2019m just glad I heard it first here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> that Gary Thomas believes that peanut butter and chocolate is worshipful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Can be.\u00a0 Can be worshipful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Leads us to God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It can also be gluttonous.\u00a0 Right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It can.\u00a0 That is the point, Gary.\u00a0 Here I am.\u00a0 I wish I was perfect.\u00a0 I wish I approached life and, you know, issues like this with a perfect balance.\u00a0 So, the next time I pull up in front of Haagen-Dazs at the airport or where ever I may decide to partake of a scoop, I maybe\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Or two.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Maybe\u2014I haven\u2019t had one in a long time; so, it is going to be two scoops, okay?\u00a0 My point is how do we maintain the balance here of the enjoying that peanut butter and chocolate ice cream\u2014I\u2019m not wanting to trivialize your point.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it is very important because whether it is peanut butter and ice cream or sexual pleasures with your spouse or enjoying a sunset or touch, whatever the pleasure is that God gives you, the temptation to turn into something wrong into that idol Bob is talking about is always there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 It is shocking when you look at the life of Jesus and the explicit words of the apostle Paul that they really do side with, if I could use this, the libertarians.\u00a0 Paul explicitly says do not taste do not touch doesn\u2019t work.\u00a0 It lacks any value to restrain sensual indulgence.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus, there is evidence that He was called a glutton and a drunkard.\u00a0 We know He was never drunk, we know He was not a glutton.\u00a0 Obviously, though, He was having a good time.\u00a0 He was probably laughing which is why they assumed He was partying.\u00a0 So, I think we\u2019ve got to recognize there are those times in life we can enjoy without guilt those things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is where we have to, I believe, be open to the Spirit\u2019s leading that.\u00a0 The\u00a0 problem with pleasures is that because they\u2019re so powerful, because God did such a good job creating us to really enjoy certain pleasures; we are sort of walking along a ridge where you\u2019ve got to keep a little bit of earth between you and the edge of the cliff because it can pull us off.\u00a0 Virtually every pleasure that God has used, Satan will use for the opposite end to pull us away.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is where we need accountability; that is where we need Scripture; that is where I said, \u201cIf you really want to delve into pleasures, that is when you have to delve into God.\u201d\u00a0 God preserves our pleasures.\u00a0 The problem is most people think God is the enemy of pleasure.\u00a0 I think God preserves pleasure because whenever I see somebody involved in pleasure without God, it becomes misery.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You are ultimately saying that God can take delight in us.\u00a0 He takes great pleasure in us because He created us to enjoy what He has created.\u00a0 Interestingly, Gary, I was just listening to you there.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tApart of what attracted me to become a follower of Jesus Christ was finally realizing that God is a God of creation and the creation of pleasure, enjoyed life when He was here.\u00a0 Jesus did actually smile.\u00a0 He laughed with the disciples.\u00a0 He was a man of grace and mercy.\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 He was accustomed to sorrow because He bore the burden of our sin.\u00a0 He was the Savior who enjoyed life as He lived it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a young man growing up, that is what I wanted to experience.\u00a0 Today, we\u2019ve got some young people leaving the church; I have to wonder if this isn\u2019t one of the reasons why they are leaving.\u00a0 They are not seeing us present God as god who is a God of great delight, a God who takes pleasure in His people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong>\u00a0 That is what my twenty year old son would say.\u00a0 When he read <em>Pure Pleasure<\/em>, he said, \u201cDad, this is what guys and girls my age need to hear.\u00a0 We grow up hearing: \u2018Don\u2019t do this.\u00a0 Don\u2019t look at that.\u00a0 Don\u2019t touch this.\u00a0 Don\u2019t taste that.\u00a0 Don\u2019t say this.\u2019\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cThis is a new thing for me to hear that God is taking pleasure in my pleasure.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I have to tell you anytime I hear the word pleasure, my mind goes immediately goes to Psalm 16:11.\u00a0 The last verse of that Psalm says, \u201cYou make known to me the path of life in Your presence there is fullness of joy.\u00a0 At Your right hand are pleasures evermore.\u201d\u00a0 How could we think God is against pleasure when in His presence is the promise of eternal pleasure? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember a mutual friend of ours Dan Allender.\u00a0 We had finished a meal one time, and it was a great meal.\u00a0 He just said, \u201cYou know, every time I eat a great meal; I think of how great Heaven is going to be.\u201d\u00a0 The pleasures of life are a foretaste of the pleasure that we will someday\u2014.\u00a0 He says, \u201cAs good as that meal was, it will be dog food compared to what we will have in Heaven.\u201d\u00a0 That does kind of make you look forward to the pleasures that are at His right hand forevermore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 In fact, I don\u2019t know if it is just kind of seasoning with age, Gary; but Barbara and I have been empty-nesters for a few years now, and I feel like I\u2019m kind of getting my arms around this a bit.\u00a0 I think the reason I can finally grasp it is because life is not nearly as cluttered.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m not complaining about the childhood years, the child rearing years, and all the demands, but you know what it was just a challenge.\u00a0 It was a challenge from sun up to sun down.\u00a0 We fell asleep in bed exhausted, praying about the things that were troubles of the day, or the things we were anticipating tomorrow.\u00a0 Yet, it is good to take a step back and just &lt;exhale&gt;.\u00a0 Just relax for a moment and realize what Bob was just talking about from Psalm 16.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod made us.\u00a0 He made us to delight in Him.\u00a0 We can kind of understand that but also in the things He\u2019s created.\u00a0 It might be good, right now, if a listener to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> went out and bought a pint of peanut butter and chocolate and worshipped God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Rocky road would be okay too if you would rather have that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Rocky road\u2019s okay if that is what\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 If that is what it takes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, Bob, if that is what it takes.\u00a0 I heard it first from Gary Thomas on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 A Baptist preacher who said worship can occur when you eat chocolate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I hope you\u2019ve not just tempted anybody to sin against their own conscious, but I hope the rest of the folks\u2014.\u00a0 I just wonder if we will look back at this day and go, \u201cWhat happened with ice cream sales that day?\u00a0 Did you see they just went through the roof at the grocery store that day?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe do not have any ice cream at our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 We do have copies of Gary\u2019s book which is called <em>Pure Pleasure<\/em>.\u00a0 We want to encourage you to go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to request a copy.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the title of the book is <em>Pure Pleasure<\/em> and the author is our guest Gary Thomas.\u00a0 Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about how to get a copy of the book.\u00a0 Or call us toll free at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I have not seen the latest numbers but I think we still have a ways to go in the matching gift challenge that Dennis talked about at the beginning of today\u2019s program.\u00a0 We have had some friends of the ministry who got together and said, \u201cWe want to encourage <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners to help support the program.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, they have pledged to match every donation that we receive during the month of December on a dollar per dollar basis up to a total of\u2014actually, it is now more than $2,000,000 that they have pledged to that matching gift fund.\u00a0 As it turns out, that number has been growing a little bit here during the month of December.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help us with a donation this month, whether it is $20, $50, or $100, or whatever it is; your donation is going to be matched dollar for dollar.\u00a0 You\u2019ll help us take full advantage of this matching gift opportunity.\u00a0 It will be a great encouragement to us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you would consider making a yearend donation, you can do that online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY, make your donation over the phone.\u00a0 I will just say thanks in advance for whatever you are able to do.\u00a0 We appreciate your support, and we appreciate your prayers too.\u00a0 We are grateful that you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to encourage you to be back tomorrow.\u00a0 Gary Thomas is going to be here.\u00a0 We are going to continue to talk about enjoying life and how that fits into our understanding of God and His purposes for us.\u00a0 I hope you can be back for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t2010 Copyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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