{"id":302161,"date":"2010-11-22T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2010-11-22T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/spiritually-shaping-your-kids\/"},"modified":"2010-11-22T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2010-11-22T17:00:00","slug":"spiritually-shaping-your-kids","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/spiritually-shaping-your-kids\/","title":{"rendered":"Spiritually Shaping Your Kids"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>You enroll them in Sunday school, AWANA and Christian school.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-11-22.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"24.8M","filesize_raw":"26004418","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2806],"tags":[4722,4983,4798,2706],"podcast_series":[7769],"cwp_profile":[3107,9217],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302161","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-spiritual-development","tag-christianity","tag-family-devotions","tag-kids","tag-spiritual-growth","podcast_series-it-starts-at-home","cwp_profile-kurt-bruner","cwp_profile-steve-stroope","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302161\/spiritually-shaping-your-kids","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302161\/spiritually-shaping-your-kids","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"QlR67o5Ys2\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/spiritually-shaping-your-kids\/\">Spiritually Shaping Your Kids<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/spiritually-shaping-your-kids\/embed\/#?secret=QlR67o5Ys2\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Spiritually Shaping Your Kids&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"QlR67o5Ys2\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-11-22.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-11-22.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Before we train up our children in the way they should go, we need to make sure that we are modeling what that way looks like.\u00a0 Here\u2019s Kurt Bruner.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think we have overemphasized many times the instructional aspect of discipleship that I need to instill in my children these verses and these biblical principles.\u00a0 We don\u2019t realize it starts with simply being the picture of the gospel that a home is intended to be.\u00a0 You know, by being the picture of the gospel that a loving husband-wife relationship should be, is a huge advantage in forming the character and the faith of your children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, November 22nd.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to spend some time talking today about how churches and families can work together to make the faith hand-off to the next generation.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I brought in a copy of this study from the Pew Research Center, <em>The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 <em>Religion among the Millennials<\/em>.\u00a0 Do you know who the Millenials are?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, the younger generation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<h3>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It says here, \u201c<em>Less Religiously Active Than Older Americans, But Fairly Traditional in Other Ways<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 I thought, \u201cWe need to figure out what the problem is here\u201d and then I thought, \u201cThese guys know the answer.\u00a0 They can fix this for us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/h3>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 These guys are on it.\u00a0 They are leading one of America\u2019s most effective churches in Rockwall, Texas.\u00a0 Steve Stroope and Kurt Bruner join us on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Steve, Kurt, welcome to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s good to be here.\u00a0 Thanks, Dennis.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re actually welcoming Kurt back.\u00a0 He\u2019s been on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> now \u2013 what Bob?\u00a0 Three or four times?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, you\u2019re making a lease payment on that chair, I believe, because you\u2019ve been on a few times.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019ve brought my wife in the past.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 And I know that\u2019s been the real reason.\u00a0 I brought Steve \u2013 not quite as \u2013 not quite as \u2013 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Lovely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Enough said.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 No doubt about it.\u00a0 Kurt worked for <em>Focus on the Family<\/em> for a number of years.\u00a0 He is a graduate of Talbot Seminary, and is Pastor of Spiritual Formation at Lake Pointe Church in Rockwall, Texas.\u00a0 Steve Stroope is the lead pastor of Lake Pointe and has really been there, I guess, since the beginning.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thirty years, just getting started.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 A little over 11,000 people attend that church, a great lighthouse there in the east Dallas area, and really all of east Texas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 A lot of great people.\u00a0 We enjoy being with them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Together you guys have collaborated on a book, <em>It Starts at Home:<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>A Practical Guide to Nurturing Lifelong Faith.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Before we came in here, Kurt, you said that families are really looking for the church to equip them to do discipleship at home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\u00a0 In fact, some of the studies we\u2019ve seen where they poll people who attend our churches and they say, \u201cHow are we doing on helping you become disciples?\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 Well, as it related to the family, one of the topics that came up was, listing out all of the programs and all the objectives the church may have of trying to equip families \u2013 and of course we have children\u2019s programs, right?\u00a0 And we ask you to serve in our children\u2019s programs.\u00a0 So we\u2019ve asked families, \u201cHow do you feel about how we\u2019re doing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWell, you\u2019re doing great.\u00a0 You\u2019re doing almost too well in asking me to serve in the children\u2019s ministry, but you\u2019re doing great there.\u201d\u00a0 When it comes to the issue of \u201cHow are we doing in equipping you as parents to do what you need to do in the home, which can\u2019t be done at the church,\u201d\u00a0 there\u2019s a high desire for that kind of equipping, but the grade is pretty low as a church.\u00a0 That\u2019s one of the issues that we at Lake Pointe tried to address head-on.\u00a0 We asked, \u201cHow can we make it easy for families to do the right thing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Steve, I want to ask you about this, because I\u2019m talking to a lot of Christian parents who are doing their best.\u00a0 I say, \u201cdoing their best,\u201d \u2013 they\u2019re trying to put their kids in the Awana program at church; they\u2019ve got them going to Christian school.\u00a0 They\u2019re really trying to do all they can, and yet they\u2019re watching kids \u2013 maybe they\u2019ve homeschooled them all the way \u2013 they\u2019re watching them hit 17 or 18 and they\u2019re just kind of fading.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 I think the problem is that they think that Awana or the Christian school is going to do their job for them.\u00a0 People look at our youth program or our children\u2019s program, which is done with excellence, and they say, \u201cWell, those people know a lot more about my kids than I do.\u00a0 They know a lot more about theology than I do.\u201d\u00a0 So what they\u2019re doing is dropping them off.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat they don\u2019t understand is if they\u2019re not doing their job at home it doesn\u2019t matter what we do at church.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t matter what the Christian school does.\u00a0 We don\u2019t have their kids long enough to undo all the bad things that are going on at home if they\u2019re not living out the gospel in their home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The constant barrage of what they\u2019re getting from the culture \u2013 the kids, I\u2019m talking about \u2013 you\u2019ve got to have at least an equal barrage coming from mom and dad to counteract that.\u00a0 It\u2019s not enough to get a couple of hours a week coming from the church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019ll say this though:\u00a0 you do have the advantage of God\u2019s design.\u00a0 By being the picture of the gospel that a loving husband-wife relationship should be is a huge advantage in forming the character and the faith of your children.\u00a0 It\u2019s funny \u2013 I think we a lot of times go directly to how to disciple our children in terms of the Scriptures, but I want to back up a second and talk about how you form your children starts with simply being the picture of the gospel that a home is intended be, even if you never say a word.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 Now, thirty percent of the audience just went, \u201cI\u2019ve already blown that.\u201d\u00a0 These are the blended, broken families, the single parents who say, \u201cOur picture got busted a long time ago.\u00a0 So I\u2019m in trouble from the get-go.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes but I think what happens, though, is you take where you are today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you put that in the hands of the Lord, and you honor the Lord where you are today moving forward.\u00a0 What you\u2019re really doing is you\u2019re showing your kids how to respond to a bad situation even if that bad situation was created by your past disobedience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019d also say that the church steps in here.\u00a0 This is part of what we\u2019re trying to emphasize with the churches:\u00a0 helping families become intentional.\u00a0 I believe every child deserves and needs to have a regular exposure to the picture of a God-honoring marriage and a God-honoring home.\u00a0 Now ideally that\u2019s happening in their own home, but when it\u2019s not, the body of Christ can come along and provide free samples of what that\u2019s supposed to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy wife, Olivia \u2013 you\u2019ve met her when she\u2019s been here in the studio.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 She came from a very troubled, very broken home, very antagonistic to the Christian faith.\u00a0 What caught her heart was going and spending time in the home of a family with a husband and wife who loved one another despite their conflicts.\u00a0 They loved their children, a dad who gave his life day-in and day-out to be there for his family.\u00a0 She saw in that a picture of something that made all of the words make sense when she visited church with her friend.\u00a0 But she didn\u2019t have the picture in her own home; she got that picture from another home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I think the wider body of Christ can step in and help in those situations as well.\u00a0\u00a0 Let\u2019s give free samples.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 One of the things we\u2019re doing is \u2013 we\u2019re not just emphasizing disciple your own kids at home, but we\u2019re emphasizing creating something in your home that will disciple your kids.\u00a0 That\u2019s one of the reasons why one of the chapters in the book is on marriage, very frankly.\u00a0 We\u2019re obviously not trying to deal with that whole issue of marriage in that one chapter, but it\u2019s just to say \u201cGuys, the best thing you can do for your kids is to show them the love of God that you\u2019re expressing to one another in that family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to ask both of you:\u00a0 you use the phrase \u201cspiritual formation.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019ve typed that into Google and I get all kinds of things back about what a dangerous concept this is, and how you\u2019re going to take people into the mountains and they\u2019re going to do meditation.\u00a0 Explain what you mean when you talk about spiritual formation and what that should look like in a family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Basically what it\u2019s really all about is becoming like Jesus.\u00a0 I think one of the things that intimidates parents is they think they have to have a theological degree to take their kids there, or they think that they have to start creating these family devotionals where they sit the kids down and preach at them for two hours out of an old musty family Bible.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe truth is, according to Deuteronomy we are already involved in the activity that will form Christ in our children.\u00a0 It says that \u201cas we walk along the way, as we sit down, as we lie down at night, as we rise up,\u201d you\u2019re doing life with your kids.\u00a0 Be intentional to point them to Christ, to point them to the gospel in the things that you\u2019re already doing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have four grandchildren that we really love.\u00a0 One of the things that my wife does as she\u2019s taking Meleah, one of our granddaughters out, is that they\u2019ll collect leaves.\u00a0 As they collect leaves and put them into a little book for Meleah, she points out about how creative God is, all the colors that he created and all the shapes that he created.\u00a0 Marsha is going to be taking that walk with Meleah no matter what, but for her to be intentional and to point to the Creator while she does that \u2013 she doesn\u2019t have to create a new activity.\u00a0 She doesn\u2019t have to quote Scripture.\u00a0 She just has to live out her own belief and verbalize that with her granddaughter.\u00a0 That\u2019s making an imprint on that little heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s forming her.\u00a0 That\u2019s what spiritual formation is.\u00a0 It\u2019s those things that form us into the character of Christ.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know that it\u2019s a mistake, but I think we\u2019ve overemphasized many times the instructional aspect of discipleship that I need to instill in my children these verses and these biblical principles.\u00a0 So we move into more of an instructional, academic mode and we don\u2019t realize the purpose of the home \u2013 what the home can do, that the church cannot do and cannot be is that forming context.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s like the flowering pot, alright?\u00a0 Take four little flowers and imagine that their roots are dangling here.\u00a0 I hold those flowers up in front of you and I say, \u201cThese are like my four children.\u00a0 I desperately want them to embrace the gospel, so I bring them to the church.\u00a0 The church has the living water of the gospel, and the church pours that water onto the lives of my children.\u201d\u00a0 Well, what happens to the water?\u00a0 It just drips off.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if I stick those same four flowers into the rich soil of a God-honoring home and I pour the water of the gospel into the soil, now those roots have the opportunity to absorb the meaning of the gospel.\u00a0 I think what happens is, we have the water.\u00a0 The church can pour the water and can do a great job of teaching the truths, but what that church can\u2019t do is become the soil, that life-giving, nurturing soil that a God-honoring home is intended to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was with a businessman who has attempted to raise his children like you\u2019re talking about.\u00a0 He was just talking and sharing with me how he thinks his most important lessons in life that he\u2019s passed on to his children have not come around his successes, but around his failures, and how he processed trusting God and getting back up off his face after he\u2019d fallen down and miserably failed.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is the environment we\u2019re talking about here.\u00a0 It\u2019s not just, as you described, a bunch of dutiful children seated around a table listening to dad, as you talked about, read the Bible.\u00a0 But it\u2019s about them observing you do life in the deep end of the pool.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re swimming, you\u2019re calling them to swim, and you\u2019re making an impact for Christ.\u00a0 You\u2019re making mistakes; you\u2019re training them how to handle their mistakes, because they\u2019re going to make a lot of mistakes over their lifetime.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019m thinking back to my own experience of raising kids and we\u2019re still in the midst of some of that.\u00a0 I\u2019m thinking that from a modeling standpoint we\u2019ve been far from perfect, but I think we\u2019ve been fairly consistent.\u00a0 I think when we\u2019ve failed we\u2019ve modeled what grace looks like, what forgiveness, what repentance looks like.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFrom an instructional standpoint I\u2019ve been less effective than I think I\u2019ve been from a modeling standpoint.\u00a0 Honestly, I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve done as good a job instructing as maybe we\u2019ve done modeling.\u00a0 Now if I were to take both of those and say, \u201cWhich would I rather win at?\u201d \u2013 if I were to say to you today, \u201cYou know I\u2019ve been a great instructor and a lousy model,\u201d \u2013 that\u2019s going to drive the kids away from our Christianity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 They\u2019re not rejecting our theology, they\u2019re rejecting our hypocrisy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But the point is we really ought to have both going.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 No question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We ought to have both the modeling happening -- that\u2019s the foundation on which then healthy instruction can happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 I remember when my older boys were real young.\u00a0 I was not from a home \u2013 I didn\u2019t grow up in a family where my dad played with us a lot.\u00a0 He had seven kids, always worked two jobs, so it wasn\u2019t natural for me.\u00a0 I remember when the boys were about five and three.\u00a0 Olivia just had an instinct on this \u2013 sure, we would try to do some things like family night activities, where we would instruct them \u2013 but she would say every night when I got home from the office, \u201cYou need to go in the other room and just wrestle with the boys on the floor.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would do that every night, and what I came to realize is the wrestling on the floor was actually what made them want what it is I would talk about.\u00a0 If I talked about it but I didn\u2019t do the wrestling, well, then they don\u2019t want what I believe.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t matter how effectively I or how effectively the church does at instructing them, if they don\u2019t want what it is we believe.\u00a0 So creating that context is really about giving them a desire, a thirst for what we\u2019re about and who we are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 But I think one of the things that the church needs to do, is the church needs to help equip the parents to do the instructional part.\u00a0 They need to help the parents know what to say to the children at what time in their development, what are the basic values that need to be covered, what is the basic theology that needs to be shared?\u00a0 I think kids want to know what their parents believe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, let\u2019s go to the basics here then.\u00a0 Let\u2019s say we see a young couple who are just starting out their journey as parents.\u00a0 They ask you, \u201cWhat are the fundamentals?\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m not talking about theological fundaments, but \u201cwhat are the very basics or the essence in the truth about God that I need to pass on to my children?\u00a0 How can I introduce my kids to God?\u201d\u00a0 Where do they begin?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think it begins with the very simple thing that God is our source.\u00a0 We talk to them about God being our Creator.\u00a0 Then I think at some point it moves beyond that to begin to talk about that he not only is the one who created us, he\u2019s our source, but he wants to be involved in our life as we continue.\u00a0 He\u2019s the one who sets the boundaries; he\u2019s the one who provides resources for living.\u00a0 Kurt has done a great job in our book talking about what concepts to present to the kids at what ages.\u00a0 Kurt, you might say a little bit about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, there are a lot of materials on that.\u00a0 Our book is just a reminder of those basics.\u00a0 But, things like, \u201cWho is God?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cIs there a God?\u201d\u00a0 We used to call these things the creeds, and catechisms, and Sunday school lessons\u2014the basic truths like there is a God.\u00a0 I am made in his image.\u00a0 I am fallen.\u00a0 He has redeemed me.\u00a0 The sacrifice of Jesus Christ.\u00a0 There aren\u2019t as many as we might think that are essential elements, that are those basic truths of the Christian understanding, but all of those things become irrelevant if the picture doesn\u2019t exist.\u00a0 Remember, these are all allusions to and metaphors of what?\u00a0 A God who is a loving heavenly father.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had a young lady who came up to me after a sermon.\u00a0 In the sermon I just briefly said something to the effect of \u201cHow we view God is heavily influenced by our relationship to our parents and especially our fathers.\u201d\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t the point of the sermon; it was almost a throw-away line.\u00a0 She came up to me after the sermon, very nervous about talking to a pastor.\u00a0 She had been visiting our church with a friend, 28 years old.\u00a0 She said, \u201cDo you do appointments?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cWould you like to talk about your faith journey?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cYes, I would.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cOkay.\u201d\u00a0 So my wife and I set an appointment with her later that week.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHer name was Maria.\u00a0 Maria came in and the only thing she could do to express what she was experiencing, what she was feeling and hearing sitting in our services was she brought her journal where she had been writing her notes.\u00a0 She began to read it to us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs she read, I looked over at Olivia and I wondered, \u201cI think Maria came from a home like you did, Olivia.\u201d\u00a0 The further she read, we could tell.\u00a0 She had one line that just grabbed me.\u00a0 She said, \u201cI don\u2019t understand what they mean when they talk about God gave his only son.\u00a0 Why would he do that to his son?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI looked again at Olivia and I wondered, \u201cDid she have a father who would say, \u2018Take my kid.\u00a0 Don\u2019t take me?\u2019\u201d\u00a0 Which she did.\u00a0 She had a very self-centered father.\u00a0 He abandoned his marital vows.\u00a0 He left the kids in harm\u2019s way, very manipulative.\u00a0 So the words she was hearing, which are the most profound, meaningful words in all of Scripture, that God would give his only son \u2013 she didn\u2019t hear them as the greatest sacrifice.\u00a0 She heard them as an act of cowardly selfishness.\u00a0 Why?\u00a0 Because the picture was warped.\u00a0 What she was experiencing in her home in an incarnational level was messing up the words of Scripture.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we sat down and talked about the fact that, \u201cListen, I have four children, Maria.\u00a0 You can threaten my life and that\u2019s one thing.\u00a0 You say you\u2019re going to come after one of my kids?\u00a0 No, you\u2019ve gone too far.\u00a0 So when I hear that God gave his only son, I\u2019m hearing the ultimate sacrifice, but you\u2019re hearing a self-centered deity.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, it turns out that Maria desperately wanted to be married and she\u2019d been hanging out with some friends who had a God-honoring marriage.\u00a0 She saw in that the picture of something that her heart deeply yearned for.\u00a0 We began to talk about, \u201cYou know, Maria, the main imagery used in Scripture of the gospel \u2013 do you know what it is?\u00a0 It\u2019s marriage, and God wants you to be his bride.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe went through that imagery and very quickly, within a few weeks, said \u201cI\u2019m ready to be a believer.\u00a0 I\u2019m ready to be a believer.\u201d\u00a0 My wife and I had the privilege of holding hands with Maria and praying with her as she accepted that marriage invitation from God himself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI say all that to say this:\u00a0 Maria\u2019s experience I think is becoming normal and normative in our culture.\u00a0 They don\u2019t have images and pictures of what a father who lays his life down for his children is about.\u00a0 So when they hear the words of Scripture, it\u2019s not sinking in, it\u2019s not making sense, it\u2019s not connecting.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we underestimate, I think, as married couples and as parents how simply being what it is we\u2019re called to be creates that life-sustaining, life-nurturing soil.\u00a0 And then within that context we do things like family night activities, bedtime blessings, and all the things that are practical and easy to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had a dad tell a story the other day.\u00a0 He took one of our activities out of the \u201c<em>Just Add Family<\/em>\u201d kit that we worked with FamilyLife on where he\u2019s standing at the top of the stairs and it\u2019s time for family night and he tells his kids, \u201cAlright, we\u2019re going to have ice cream tonight if you can figure out the family night challenge.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u201cWe\u2019re in \u2013 family night challenge.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cAlright, I\u2019m at the top of the stairs, I\u2019m like God in heaven.\u00a0 I want you where I am.\u00a0 But you can\u2019t touch the stairs and you can\u2019t touch the railing.\u00a0 You have to get up to here where I am.\u00a0 Go.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe kids are looking at each other like you are right now, saying \u201cHow are we going to do this?\u00a0 Can\u2019t touch the stairs, can\u2019t touch the railing.\u201d\u00a0 So the daughter is getting rather upset as she\u2019s down at the bottom of the stairs, realizing that she\u2019s not going to get ice cream.\u00a0 Her brother is backing up, running and diving, hitting step four, and there\u2019s no way he\u2019s going to make it to the top of the stairs.\u00a0 She sees that this is just impossible and she\u2019s getting angrier and angrier saying, \u201cYou have to make this easier and I am serious\u201d because she wants the ice cream.\u00a0 So finally he says \u201cOkay, okay.\u00a0 Here\u2019s a hint.\u00a0 You can\u2019t touch the stairs and you can\u2019t touch the railing, but I can.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 Oh \u2013 h \u2013 h.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cOkay, Daddy.\u00a0 Can you come down here and carry us up the stairs?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWell sure I can.\u00a0 You haven\u2019t asked me that, so sure.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWell, would you come down and carry us?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cYes, I will.\u201d\u00a0 He walks down the stairs and carries the kids up to the top.\u00a0 And in two minutes he explained to them, \u201cYou know, nothing we can do can get us to God or to heaven.\u00a0 That\u2019s why Jesus Christ had to come down and do for us what we cannot do for ourselves.\u201d\u00a0 He simply carried them up the stairs and had ice cream.\u00a0 The whole activity took, what, five minutes?\u00a0 Now he could have done a two-hour Bible study with his children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yeah.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 On substitutionary atonement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 There you go. Yes, exactly.\u00a0 And they would have been bored to tears.\u00a0 But they had a great experience with mom and dad in the home that had a profound impact.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 We did something similar with our kids.\u00a0 I remember my son slipping into our bedroom a few hours later after really thinking this through and saying, \u201cMom, Dad, I want to receive the gift of salvation.\u201d\u00a0 So it\u2019s those kinds of moments.\u00a0 It\u2019s not as hard as we think it is, and in fact, it can be great fun.\u00a0 So we try to provide some of those ideas and some of those suggestions of how to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 The thing that you\u2019re trying to help parents to understand, both of you as you\u2019ve written this book, is that it\u2019s the parents\u2019 privilege as well as responsibility to take their child\u2019s hand in theirs and to begin to introduce them to God, and ultimately, as God reaches down to impact their lives, place that little hand in God\u2019s hand, ultimately to introduce them to Christ, which is what you were just talking about there.\u00a0 We had that privilege with a number of our children.\u00a0 You don\u2019t take them to church for the church to lead your kids to Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You should go to church to get equipped, to know how to be a mom, a dad, a husband, a wife, and yes, for your children to find out more about who God is and how to swim in the deep end of the pool.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and I would say this, too, that it\u2019s good to remember that not only do we have the church as a partner in this, but we have God as our partner, and the Holy Spirit helps us do this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And we have the Scriptures which are the ultimate blueprints for knowing how to do it, too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019ve told parents for years, \u201cYour kids know there\u2019s a God.\u00a0 They know there is.\u00a0 It\u2019s stamped on their hearts.\u00a0 It\u2019s in their conscience.\u00a0 Creation screams at them.\u00a0 All you have to be is a little child, and it\u2019s obvious to a little child there\u2019s a God.\u00a0 You don\u2019t have to convince them there\u2019s a God.\u00a0 What they don\u2019t know is how to have a relationship with that God who they know is there.\u00a0\u00a0 The impulse of their own heart pulls them away from that.\u00a0 Their sin nature pulls them away from that.\u00a0 So what you have to do is teach them how they can have a relationship with the God that they know is there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think what you\u2019re suggesting to us is that it\u2019s something that we can partner together on.\u00a0 Parents and churches can work together in this area, and it\u2019ll be more effective if we do.\u00a0 That\u2019s where the book you\u2019ve written, <em>It Starts at Home<\/em>, lays out a template, a blueprint for how churches and families can work more carefully together on presenting Christ to our children.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got copies of the book in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on how to get a copy of the book <em>It Starts at Home: A Practical Guide to Nurturing Lifelong Faith<\/em> by Kurt Bruner and Steve Stroope.\u00a0 Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the book.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhile you\u2019re there, check out the resource that Kurt and his wife, Olivia, put together that we worked with them on called <em>Just Add Family<\/em>.\u00a0 These are recipe cards for family devotions that use ingredients you have already around the house.\u00a0 They don\u2019t take a lot of time to prepare, but it\u2019s just a great way for a mom or a dad to quickly, easily provide an opportunity for spiritual engagement as you raise your children.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s information online about the <em>Just Add Family<\/em> recipe box along with Steve and Kurt\u2019s book, <em>It Starts at Home.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com or call us for more information, 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800 \u201cF\u201d as in Family, \u201cL\u201d as in Life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur focus here in the United States this week is on Thanksgiving.\u00a0 One of the things we\u2019re most thankful for here at FamilyLife is those of you who listen, who pray for us and help support the ministry.\u00a0 We appreciate your partnership with us, and just want to take this opportunity to say thanks for tuning in.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had a chance this last weekend down in San Antonio to talk with a number of our <em>FamilyLifeToday<\/em> listeners, those of you who listen regularly and a number of you who support the ministry.\u00a0 We just want to say thanks for that partnership.\u00a0 We couldn\u2019t do this without you, we\u2019re dependent on you, and we hope you have a great Thanksgiving celebration as a family this week.\u00a0 We just want you to know how thankful we are for the part you play in making <em>FamilyLifeToday<\/em> possible.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we want to encourage you to be back with us tomorrow as we\u2019re going to continue our conversation on how we make the spiritual hand-off to the next generation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t2010 Copyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.8M"],"filesize_raw":["26004418"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302161.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302161.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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enroll them in Sunday school, AWANA and Christian school.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-11-22.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Before we train up our children in the way they should go, we need to make sure that we are modeling what that way looks like.\u00a0 Here\u2019s Kurt Bruner.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think we have overemphasized many times the instructional aspect of discipleship that I need to instill in my children these verses and these biblical principles.\u00a0 We don\u2019t realize it starts with simply being the picture of the gospel that a home is intended to be.\u00a0 You know, by being the picture of the gospel that a loving husband-wife relationship should be, is a huge advantage in forming the character and the faith of your children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, November 22nd.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to spend some time talking today about how churches and families can work together to make the faith hand-off to the next generation.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I brought in a copy of this study from the Pew Research Center, <em>The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 <em>Religion among the Millennials<\/em>.\u00a0 Do you know who the Millenials are?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right, the younger generation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<h3>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It says here, \u201c<em>Less Religiously Active Than Older Americans, But Fairly Traditional in Other Ways<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 I thought, \u201cWe need to figure out what the problem is here\u201d and then I thought, \u201cThese guys know the answer.\u00a0 They can fix this for us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/h3>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 These guys are on it.\u00a0 They are leading one of America\u2019s most effective churches in Rockwall, Texas.\u00a0 Steve Stroope and Kurt Bruner join us on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\u00a0 Steve, Kurt, welcome to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s good to be here.\u00a0 Thanks, Dennis.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thanks for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 We\u2019re actually welcoming Kurt back.\u00a0 He\u2019s been on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> now \u2013 what Bob?\u00a0 Three or four times?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, you\u2019re making a lease payment on that chair, I believe, because you\u2019ve been on a few times.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019ve brought my wife in the past.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 And I know that\u2019s been the real reason.\u00a0 I brought Steve \u2013 not quite as \u2013 not quite as \u2013 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Lovely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Enough said.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 No doubt about it.\u00a0 Kurt worked for <em>Focus on the Family<\/em> for a number of years.\u00a0 He is a graduate of Talbot Seminary, and is Pastor of Spiritual Formation at Lake Pointe Church in Rockwall, Texas.\u00a0 Steve Stroope is the lead pastor of Lake Pointe and has really been there, I guess, since the beginning.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thirty years, just getting started.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 A little over 11,000 people attend that church, a great lighthouse there in the east Dallas area, and really all of east Texas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 A lot of great people.\u00a0 We enjoy being with them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Together you guys have collaborated on a book, <em>It Starts at Home:<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>A Practical Guide to Nurturing Lifelong Faith.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Before we came in here, Kurt, you said that families are really looking for the church to equip them to do discipleship at home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\u00a0 In fact, some of the studies we\u2019ve seen where they poll people who attend our churches and they say, \u201cHow are we doing on helping you become disciples?\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 Well, as it related to the family, one of the topics that came up was, listing out all of the programs and all the objectives the church may have of trying to equip families \u2013 and of course we have children\u2019s programs, right?\u00a0 And we ask you to serve in our children\u2019s programs.\u00a0 So we\u2019ve asked families, \u201cHow do you feel about how we\u2019re doing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWell, you\u2019re doing great.\u00a0 You\u2019re doing almost too well in asking me to serve in the children\u2019s ministry, but you\u2019re doing great there.\u201d\u00a0 When it comes to the issue of \u201cHow are we doing in equipping you as parents to do what you need to do in the home, which can\u2019t be done at the church,\u201d\u00a0 there\u2019s a high desire for that kind of equipping, but the grade is pretty low as a church.\u00a0 That\u2019s one of the issues that we at Lake Pointe tried to address head-on.\u00a0 We asked, \u201cHow can we make it easy for families to do the right thing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Steve, I want to ask you about this, because I\u2019m talking to a lot of Christian parents who are doing their best.\u00a0 I say, \u201cdoing their best,\u201d \u2013 they\u2019re trying to put their kids in the Awana program at church; they\u2019ve got them going to Christian school.\u00a0 They\u2019re really trying to do all they can, and yet they\u2019re watching kids \u2013 maybe they\u2019ve homeschooled them all the way \u2013 they\u2019re watching them hit 17 or 18 and they\u2019re just kind of fading.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 I think the problem is that they think that Awana or the Christian school is going to do their job for them.\u00a0 People look at our youth program or our children\u2019s program, which is done with excellence, and they say, \u201cWell, those people know a lot more about my kids than I do.\u00a0 They know a lot more about theology than I do.\u201d\u00a0 So what they\u2019re doing is dropping them off.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat they don\u2019t understand is if they\u2019re not doing their job at home it doesn\u2019t matter what we do at church.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t matter what the Christian school does.\u00a0 We don\u2019t have their kids long enough to undo all the bad things that are going on at home if they\u2019re not living out the gospel in their home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The constant barrage of what they\u2019re getting from the culture \u2013 the kids, I\u2019m talking about \u2013 you\u2019ve got to have at least an equal barrage coming from mom and dad to counteract that.\u00a0 It\u2019s not enough to get a couple of hours a week coming from the church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019ll say this though:\u00a0 you do have the advantage of God\u2019s design.\u00a0 By being the picture of the gospel that a loving husband-wife relationship should be is a huge advantage in forming the character and the faith of your children.\u00a0 It\u2019s funny \u2013 I think we a lot of times go directly to how to disciple our children in terms of the Scriptures, but I want to back up a second and talk about how you form your children starts with simply being the picture of the gospel that a home is intended be, even if you never say a word.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\u00a0 Now, thirty percent of the audience just went, \u201cI\u2019ve already blown that.\u201d\u00a0 These are the blended, broken families, the single parents who say, \u201cOur picture got busted a long time ago.\u00a0 So I\u2019m in trouble from the get-go.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes but I think what happens, though, is you take where you are today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you put that in the hands of the Lord, and you honor the Lord where you are today moving forward.\u00a0 What you\u2019re really doing is you\u2019re showing your kids how to respond to a bad situation even if that bad situation was created by your past disobedience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 I\u2019d also say that the church steps in here.\u00a0 This is part of what we\u2019re trying to emphasize with the churches:\u00a0 helping families become intentional.\u00a0 I believe every child deserves and needs to have a regular exposure to the picture of a God-honoring marriage and a God-honoring home.\u00a0 Now ideally that\u2019s happening in their own home, but when it\u2019s not, the body of Christ can come along and provide free samples of what that\u2019s supposed to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy wife, Olivia \u2013 you\u2019ve met her when she\u2019s been here in the studio.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 She came from a very troubled, very broken home, very antagonistic to the Christian faith.\u00a0 What caught her heart was going and spending time in the home of a family with a husband and wife who loved one another despite their conflicts.\u00a0 They loved their children, a dad who gave his life day-in and day-out to be there for his family.\u00a0 She saw in that a picture of something that made all of the words make sense when she visited church with her friend.\u00a0 But she didn\u2019t have the picture in her own home; she got that picture from another home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I think the wider body of Christ can step in and help in those situations as well.\u00a0\u00a0 Let\u2019s give free samples.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 One of the things we\u2019re doing is \u2013 we\u2019re not just emphasizing disciple your own kids at home, but we\u2019re emphasizing creating something in your home that will disciple your kids.\u00a0 That\u2019s one of the reasons why one of the chapters in the book is on marriage, very frankly.\u00a0 We\u2019re obviously not trying to deal with that whole issue of marriage in that one chapter, but it\u2019s just to say \u201cGuys, the best thing you can do for your kids is to show them the love of God that you\u2019re expressing to one another in that family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I want to ask both of you:\u00a0 you use the phrase \u201cspiritual formation.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019ve typed that into Google and I get all kinds of things back about what a dangerous concept this is, and how you\u2019re going to take people into the mountains and they\u2019re going to do meditation.\u00a0 Explain what you mean when you talk about spiritual formation and what that should look like in a family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Basically what it\u2019s really all about is becoming like Jesus.\u00a0 I think one of the things that intimidates parents is they think they have to have a theological degree to take their kids there, or they think that they have to start creating these family devotionals where they sit the kids down and preach at them for two hours out of an old musty family Bible.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe truth is, according to Deuteronomy we are already involved in the activity that will form Christ in our children.\u00a0 It says that \u201cas we walk along the way, as we sit down, as we lie down at night, as we rise up,\u201d you\u2019re doing life with your kids.\u00a0 Be intentional to point them to Christ, to point them to the gospel in the things that you\u2019re already doing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have four grandchildren that we really love.\u00a0 One of the things that my wife does as she\u2019s taking Meleah, one of our granddaughters out, is that they\u2019ll collect leaves.\u00a0 As they collect leaves and put them into a little book for Meleah, she points out about how creative God is, all the colors that he created and all the shapes that he created.\u00a0 Marsha is going to be taking that walk with Meleah no matter what, but for her to be intentional and to point to the Creator while she does that \u2013 she doesn\u2019t have to create a new activity.\u00a0 She doesn\u2019t have to quote Scripture.\u00a0 She just has to live out her own belief and verbalize that with her granddaughter.\u00a0 That\u2019s making an imprint on that little heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s forming her.\u00a0 That\u2019s what spiritual formation is.\u00a0 It\u2019s those things that form us into the character of Christ.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know that it\u2019s a mistake, but I think we\u2019ve overemphasized many times the instructional aspect of discipleship that I need to instill in my children these verses and these biblical principles.\u00a0 So we move into more of an instructional, academic mode and we don\u2019t realize the purpose of the home \u2013 what the home can do, that the church cannot do and cannot be is that forming context.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s like the flowering pot, alright?\u00a0 Take four little flowers and imagine that their roots are dangling here.\u00a0 I hold those flowers up in front of you and I say, \u201cThese are like my four children.\u00a0 I desperately want them to embrace the gospel, so I bring them to the church.\u00a0 The church has the living water of the gospel, and the church pours that water onto the lives of my children.\u201d\u00a0 Well, what happens to the water?\u00a0 It just drips off.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if I stick those same four flowers into the rich soil of a God-honoring home and I pour the water of the gospel into the soil, now those roots have the opportunity to absorb the meaning of the gospel.\u00a0 I think what happens is, we have the water.\u00a0 The church can pour the water and can do a great job of teaching the truths, but what that church can\u2019t do is become the soil, that life-giving, nurturing soil that a God-honoring home is intended to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was with a businessman who has attempted to raise his children like you\u2019re talking about.\u00a0 He was just talking and sharing with me how he thinks his most important lessons in life that he\u2019s passed on to his children have not come around his successes, but around his failures, and how he processed trusting God and getting back up off his face after he\u2019d fallen down and miserably failed.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is the environment we\u2019re talking about here.\u00a0 It\u2019s not just, as you described, a bunch of dutiful children seated around a table listening to dad, as you talked about, read the Bible.\u00a0 But it\u2019s about them observing you do life in the deep end of the pool.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You\u2019re swimming, you\u2019re calling them to swim, and you\u2019re making an impact for Christ.\u00a0 You\u2019re making mistakes; you\u2019re training them how to handle their mistakes, because they\u2019re going to make a lot of mistakes over their lifetime.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019m thinking back to my own experience of raising kids and we\u2019re still in the midst of some of that.\u00a0 I\u2019m thinking that from a modeling standpoint we\u2019ve been far from perfect, but I think we\u2019ve been fairly consistent.\u00a0 I think when we\u2019ve failed we\u2019ve modeled what grace looks like, what forgiveness, what repentance looks like.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFrom an instructional standpoint I\u2019ve been less effective than I think I\u2019ve been from a modeling standpoint.\u00a0 Honestly, I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve done as good a job instructing as maybe we\u2019ve done modeling.\u00a0 Now if I were to take both of those and say, \u201cWhich would I rather win at?\u201d \u2013 if I were to say to you today, \u201cYou know I\u2019ve been a great instructor and a lousy model,\u201d \u2013 that\u2019s going to drive the kids away from our Christianity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\u00a0 They\u2019re not rejecting our theology, they\u2019re rejecting our hypocrisy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 But the point is we really ought to have both going.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 No question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We ought to have both the modeling happening -- that\u2019s the foundation on which then healthy instruction can happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 I remember when my older boys were real young.\u00a0 I was not from a home \u2013 I didn\u2019t grow up in a family where my dad played with us a lot.\u00a0 He had seven kids, always worked two jobs, so it wasn\u2019t natural for me.\u00a0 I remember when the boys were about five and three.\u00a0 Olivia just had an instinct on this \u2013 sure, we would try to do some things like family night activities, where we would instruct them \u2013 but she would say every night when I got home from the office, \u201cYou need to go in the other room and just wrestle with the boys on the floor.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would do that every night, and what I came to realize is the wrestling on the floor was actually what made them want what it is I would talk about.\u00a0 If I talked about it but I didn\u2019t do the wrestling, well, then they don\u2019t want what I believe.\u00a0 It doesn\u2019t matter how effectively I or how effectively the church does at instructing them, if they don\u2019t want what it is we believe.\u00a0 So creating that context is really about giving them a desire, a thirst for what we\u2019re about and who we are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 But I think one of the things that the church needs to do, is the church needs to help equip the parents to do the instructional part.\u00a0 They need to help the parents know what to say to the children at what time in their development, what are the basic values that need to be covered, what is the basic theology that needs to be shared?\u00a0 I think kids want to know what their parents believe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, let\u2019s go to the basics here then.\u00a0 Let\u2019s say we see a young couple who are just starting out their journey as parents.\u00a0 They ask you, \u201cWhat are the fundamentals?\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019m not talking about theological fundaments, but \u201cwhat are the very basics or the essence in the truth about God that I need to pass on to my children?\u00a0 How can I introduce my kids to God?\u201d\u00a0 Where do they begin?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think it begins with the very simple thing that God is our source.\u00a0 We talk to them about God being our Creator.\u00a0 Then I think at some point it moves beyond that to begin to talk about that he not only is the one who created us, he\u2019s our source, but he wants to be involved in our life as we continue.\u00a0 He\u2019s the one who sets the boundaries; he\u2019s the one who provides resources for living.\u00a0 Kurt has done a great job in our book talking about what concepts to present to the kids at what ages.\u00a0 Kurt, you might say a little bit about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, there are a lot of materials on that.\u00a0 Our book is just a reminder of those basics.\u00a0 But, things like, \u201cWho is God?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cIs there a God?\u201d\u00a0 We used to call these things the creeds, and catechisms, and Sunday school lessons\u2014the basic truths like there is a God.\u00a0 I am made in his image.\u00a0 I am fallen.\u00a0 He has redeemed me.\u00a0 The sacrifice of Jesus Christ.\u00a0 There aren\u2019t as many as we might think that are essential elements, that are those basic truths of the Christian understanding, but all of those things become irrelevant if the picture doesn\u2019t exist.\u00a0 Remember, these are all allusions to and metaphors of what?\u00a0 A God who is a loving heavenly father.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had a young lady who came up to me after a sermon.\u00a0 In the sermon I just briefly said something to the effect of \u201cHow we view God is heavily influenced by our relationship to our parents and especially our fathers.\u201d\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t the point of the sermon; it was almost a throw-away line.\u00a0 She came up to me after the sermon, very nervous about talking to a pastor.\u00a0 She had been visiting our church with a friend, 28 years old.\u00a0 She said, \u201cDo you do appointments?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cWould you like to talk about your faith journey?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cYes, I would.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cOkay.\u201d\u00a0 So my wife and I set an appointment with her later that week.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHer name was Maria.\u00a0 Maria came in and the only thing she could do to express what she was experiencing, what she was feeling and hearing sitting in our services was she brought her journal where she had been writing her notes.\u00a0 She began to read it to us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs she read, I looked over at Olivia and I wondered, \u201cI think Maria came from a home like you did, Olivia.\u201d\u00a0 The further she read, we could tell.\u00a0 She had one line that just grabbed me.\u00a0 She said, \u201cI don\u2019t understand what they mean when they talk about God gave his only son.\u00a0 Why would he do that to his son?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI looked again at Olivia and I wondered, \u201cDid she have a father who would say, \u2018Take my kid.\u00a0 Don\u2019t take me?\u2019\u201d\u00a0 Which she did.\u00a0 She had a very self-centered father.\u00a0 He abandoned his marital vows.\u00a0 He left the kids in harm\u2019s way, very manipulative.\u00a0 So the words she was hearing, which are the most profound, meaningful words in all of Scripture, that God would give his only son \u2013 she didn\u2019t hear them as the greatest sacrifice.\u00a0 She heard them as an act of cowardly selfishness.\u00a0 Why?\u00a0 Because the picture was warped.\u00a0 What she was experiencing in her home in an incarnational level was messing up the words of Scripture.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we sat down and talked about the fact that, \u201cListen, I have four children, Maria.\u00a0 You can threaten my life and that\u2019s one thing.\u00a0 You say you\u2019re going to come after one of my kids?\u00a0 No, you\u2019ve gone too far.\u00a0 So when I hear that God gave his only son, I\u2019m hearing the ultimate sacrifice, but you\u2019re hearing a self-centered deity.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, it turns out that Maria desperately wanted to be married and she\u2019d been hanging out with some friends who had a God-honoring marriage.\u00a0 She saw in that the picture of something that her heart deeply yearned for.\u00a0 We began to talk about, \u201cYou know, Maria, the main imagery used in Scripture of the gospel \u2013 do you know what it is?\u00a0 It\u2019s marriage, and God wants you to be his bride.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe went through that imagery and very quickly, within a few weeks, said \u201cI\u2019m ready to be a believer.\u00a0 I\u2019m ready to be a believer.\u201d\u00a0 My wife and I had the privilege of holding hands with Maria and praying with her as she accepted that marriage invitation from God himself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI say all that to say this:\u00a0 Maria\u2019s experience I think is becoming normal and normative in our culture.\u00a0 They don\u2019t have images and pictures of what a father who lays his life down for his children is about.\u00a0 So when they hear the words of Scripture, it\u2019s not sinking in, it\u2019s not making sense, it\u2019s not connecting.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we underestimate, I think, as married couples and as parents how simply being what it is we\u2019re called to be creates that life-sustaining, life-nurturing soil.\u00a0 And then within that context we do things like family night activities, bedtime blessings, and all the things that are practical and easy to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had a dad tell a story the other day.\u00a0 He took one of our activities out of the \u201c<em>Just Add Family<\/em>\u201d kit that we worked with FamilyLife on where he\u2019s standing at the top of the stairs and it\u2019s time for family night and he tells his kids, \u201cAlright, we\u2019re going to have ice cream tonight if you can figure out the family night challenge.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u201cWe\u2019re in \u2013 family night challenge.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cAlright, I\u2019m at the top of the stairs, I\u2019m like God in heaven.\u00a0 I want you where I am.\u00a0 But you can\u2019t touch the stairs and you can\u2019t touch the railing.\u00a0 You have to get up to here where I am.\u00a0 Go.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe kids are looking at each other like you are right now, saying \u201cHow are we going to do this?\u00a0 Can\u2019t touch the stairs, can\u2019t touch the railing.\u201d\u00a0 So the daughter is getting rather upset as she\u2019s down at the bottom of the stairs, realizing that she\u2019s not going to get ice cream.\u00a0 Her brother is backing up, running and diving, hitting step four, and there\u2019s no way he\u2019s going to make it to the top of the stairs.\u00a0 She sees that this is just impossible and she\u2019s getting angrier and angrier saying, \u201cYou have to make this easier and I am serious\u201d because she wants the ice cream.\u00a0 So finally he says \u201cOkay, okay.\u00a0 Here\u2019s a hint.\u00a0 You can\u2019t touch the stairs and you can\u2019t touch the railing, but I can.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 Oh \u2013 h \u2013 h.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cOkay, Daddy.\u00a0 Can you come down here and carry us up the stairs?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWell sure I can.\u00a0 You haven\u2019t asked me that, so sure.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cWell, would you come down and carry us?\u201d\u00a0 \u201cYes, I will.\u201d\u00a0 He walks down the stairs and carries the kids up to the top.\u00a0 And in two minutes he explained to them, \u201cYou know, nothing we can do can get us to God or to heaven.\u00a0 That\u2019s why Jesus Christ had to come down and do for us what we cannot do for ourselves.\u201d\u00a0 He simply carried them up the stairs and had ice cream.\u00a0 The whole activity took, what, five minutes?\u00a0 Now he could have done a two-hour Bible study with his children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yeah.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 On substitutionary atonement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 There you go. Yes, exactly.\u00a0 And they would have been bored to tears.\u00a0 But they had a great experience with mom and dad in the home that had a profound impact.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kurt:<\/strong>\u00a0 We did something similar with our kids.\u00a0 I remember my son slipping into our bedroom a few hours later after really thinking this through and saying, \u201cMom, Dad, I want to receive the gift of salvation.\u201d\u00a0 So it\u2019s those kinds of moments.\u00a0 It\u2019s not as hard as we think it is, and in fact, it can be great fun.\u00a0 So we try to provide some of those ideas and some of those suggestions of how to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 The thing that you\u2019re trying to help parents to understand, both of you as you\u2019ve written this book, is that it\u2019s the parents\u2019 privilege as well as responsibility to take their child\u2019s hand in theirs and to begin to introduce them to God, and ultimately, as God reaches down to impact their lives, place that little hand in God\u2019s hand, ultimately to introduce them to Christ, which is what you were just talking about there.\u00a0 We had that privilege with a number of our children.\u00a0 You don\u2019t take them to church for the church to lead your kids to Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You should go to church to get equipped, to know how to be a mom, a dad, a husband, a wife, and yes, for your children to find out more about who God is and how to swim in the deep end of the pool.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steve:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, and I would say this, too, that it\u2019s good to remember that not only do we have the church as a partner in this, but we have God as our partner, and the Holy Spirit helps us do this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And we have the Scriptures which are the ultimate blueprints for knowing how to do it, too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I\u2019ve told parents for years, \u201cYour kids know there\u2019s a God.\u00a0 They know there is.\u00a0 It\u2019s stamped on their hearts.\u00a0 It\u2019s in their conscience.\u00a0 Creation screams at them.\u00a0 All you have to be is a little child, and it\u2019s obvious to a little child there\u2019s a God.\u00a0 You don\u2019t have to convince them there\u2019s a God.\u00a0 What they don\u2019t know is how to have a relationship with that God who they know is there.\u00a0\u00a0 The impulse of their own heart pulls them away from that.\u00a0 Their sin nature pulls them away from that.\u00a0 So what you have to do is teach them how they can have a relationship with the God that they know is there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think what you\u2019re suggesting to us is that it\u2019s something that we can partner together on.\u00a0 Parents and churches can work together in this area, and it\u2019ll be more effective if we do.\u00a0 That\u2019s where the book you\u2019ve written, <em>It Starts at Home<\/em>, lays out a template, a blueprint for how churches and families can work more carefully together on presenting Christ to our children.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got copies of the book in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center.\u00a0 Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on how to get a copy of the book <em>It Starts at Home: A Practical Guide to Nurturing Lifelong Faith<\/em> by Kurt Bruner and Steve Stroope.\u00a0 Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information about the book.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhile you\u2019re there, check out the resource that Kurt and his wife, Olivia, put together that we worked with them on called <em>Just Add Family<\/em>.\u00a0 These are recipe cards for family devotions that use ingredients you have already around the house.\u00a0 They don\u2019t take a lot of time to prepare, but it\u2019s just a great way for a mom or a dad to quickly, easily provide an opportunity for spiritual engagement as you raise your children.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s information online about the <em>Just Add Family<\/em> recipe box along with Steve and Kurt\u2019s book, <em>It Starts at Home.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em>Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com or call us for more information, 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800 \u201cF\u201d as in Family, \u201cL\u201d as in Life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur focus here in the United States this week is on Thanksgiving.\u00a0 One of the things we\u2019re most thankful for here at FamilyLife is those of you who listen, who pray for us and help support the ministry.\u00a0 We appreciate your partnership with us, and just want to take this opportunity to say thanks for tuning in.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had a chance this last weekend down in San Antonio to talk with a number of our <em>FamilyLifeToday<\/em> listeners, those of you who listen regularly and a number of you who support the ministry.\u00a0 We just want to say thanks for that partnership.\u00a0 We couldn\u2019t do this without you, we\u2019re dependent on you, and we hope you have a great Thanksgiving celebration as a family this week.\u00a0 We just want you to know how thankful we are for the part you play in making <em>FamilyLifeToday<\/em> possible.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we want to encourage you to be back with us tomorrow as we\u2019re going to continue our conversation on how we make the spiritual hand-off to the next generation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t2010 Copyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302161","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302161"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302161"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302161"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302161"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302161"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302161"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302161"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}