{"id":302102,"date":"2010-08-31T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2010-08-31T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/learning-about-grace\/"},"modified":"2010-08-31T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2010-08-31T15:00:00","slug":"learning-about-grace","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/learning-about-grace\/","title":{"rendered":"Learning About Grace"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Steven Curtis and Mary Beth Chapman&#8217;s life together hasn&#8217;t all been like a fairytale.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-08-31.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"24.6M","filesize_raw":"25795009","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822,2879],"tags":[2343,5099,2216],"podcast_series":[7751],"cwp_profile":[9210,9042],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302102","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-loss-of-a-child","tag-grief","tag-grieving","tag-suffering","podcast_series-choosing-to-see","cwp_profile-mary-beth-chapman","cwp_profile-steven-curtis-chapman","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302102\/learning-about-grace","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302102\/learning-about-grace","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"2cC6Hdxb7X\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/learning-about-grace\/\">Learning About Grace<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/learning-about-grace\/embed\/#?secret=2cC6Hdxb7X\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Learning About Grace&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"2cC6Hdxb7X\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Steven Curtis and Mary Beth Chapman's life together hasn't all been like a fairytale.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-08-31.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steven:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think we are just realizing we are more broken than we ever even imagined.\u00a0 It is not about, \u201cHow are we going to get this all patched up and fixed up?\u201d\u00a0 It is, \u201cHow are we going to trust God to be enough?\u00a0 Is His grace really sufficient as He says?\u00a0 Can we really rest in that\u2014trust in that\u2014anchor to that?\u201d\u00a0 That is why we are sitting here holding hands with tears in our eyes saying, \u201cWe are still showing up for this journey.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, August 31st.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Today Steven Curtis Chapman and his wife Mary Beth join us to talk about the journey God has taken them on and how He has been with them every step of the way.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; thanks for joining us.\u00a0 A lot of people who live in the public eye spend a lot of time, a lot of effort, trying to make sure their image is managed and what the public sees is kind of a manicured picture.\u00a0 When I got a hold of Mary Beth Chapman\u2019s new book I said, \u201cThey didn\u2019t have any image consultants get involved in the writing of this.\u00a0 (laughter)\u00a0 Do you know what I mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I do know what you mean.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It is kind of right out there\u2014we are just going to tell everything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, maybe not everything but enough so people know this is not a storybook marriage that is \u201chappily ever after\u201d off into the sunset.\u00a0 Well, let me introduce you first of all.\u00a0 (laughter)\u00a0 I\u2019m kind of off getting into it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMary Beth Chapman is the president of Show Hope which is a ministry outreach to orphans, foster-care kids\u2014all about adoption and helping families find some children who need homes and forever families.\u00a0 She has written this book that you talked about, Bob, <em>Choosing to SEE<\/em> which is subtitled <em>A Journey of Struggle and Hope<\/em>.\u00a0 It could be subtitled an \u201cAuthentic Journey of Struggle and Hope.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe is married to her husband who is\u2014I guess you hold more awards than maybe any Christian artist in all of history with all the records you have done and how you have been recognized\u2014Steven Curtis Chapman is no stranger to our listening audience.\u00a0 His latest album released last year <em>Beauty Will Rise<\/em> has been highly successful.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou guys had a tragedy in your life.\u00a0 Your daughter, Maria, died at the age of 5 after being run over in an accident in your driveway.\u00a0 I can hardly speak the words.\u00a0 I can\u2019t even imagine\u2014but as you point out in your book, Mary Beth, your life of struggle really started as you grew up and as a teenager.\u00a0 I found one of the more interesting stories\u2014one of the first church events you went to\u2014they wouldn\u2019t let you in!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary Beth:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>No.\u00a0 It wasn\u2019t one of the first church events I went to.\u00a0 I grew up going to those church events and grew up going to church every Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday night; youth camp in the summers; the once-a-month roller skating things that you do in the youth group.\u00a0\u00a0 We were very involved\u2014my family was very involved in church.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe city that I grew up in hosts the camp meeting every year that our denomination holds.\u00a0 So it is outdoor but somewhat of a wood structure\u2014so a camp meeting.\u00a0 I decided to go.\u00a0 My dad and my brother and sister sang in a southern gospel group.\u00a0 They were actually doing a concert at a church somewhere else.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI decided to go to our church camp meeting that night because\u2014this is an interesting story\u2014there was a youth meeting after the regular church meeting.\u00a0 There was a band called Chapman Henderson that was playing there that night from Anderson College.\u00a0 Interestingly, I may have seen my future husband but didn\u2019t because I was walking in\u2014and this picture is actually in the book because I found a picture of me in this outfit.\u00a0 I was walking into the camp meeting and an older usher\/leader-person grabbed me by the arm and whipped me around and told me I wasn\u2019t welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong><strong>\u201c<\/strong>The Garment Police.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary Beth:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>\u201cThe Garment Police.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cExcuse me?\u201d\u00a0 He said, \u201cYou are not welcome here with what you are wearing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That may seem like a minor deal but to a teenager\u2014to be turned away at that point in your spiritual experience\u2014while at the same time some other things were taking place in your life as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary Beth:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You were abused.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary Beth:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 I was also walking through a period of time which actually has been just in the writing of this book really begun to be dealt with.\u00a0 We had dealt with it some with some counseling and some preventative maintenance.\u00a0 Steven and I have always maintained a strong preventative maintenance program as far as it pertains to counseling in our marriage and our family because we know where the assault comes from with the Enemy.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I got into the writing of this book, I realized that I had not shared this information with my parents.\u00a0 I became very fearful of what they would think from being personally responsible and really getting to a place with the book where I could name it\u2014what it was\u2014and then the amazing thing was on Easter of this year getting to very fearfully drive to my mom and dad\u2019s house.\u00a0 I had told Steven we will\u2014he had encouraged me to tell them.\u00a0 I said, \u201cI will tell them at their grave.\u00a0 I will tell them.\u201d\u00a0 He longed for the day that I would tell them.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe drove there just this past Good Friday.\u00a0 The night before my mom had been really teary.\u00a0 She had known that I had been away at some counseling.\u00a0 She asked how I was doing, and she fell apart.\u00a0 I said, \u201cActually, Mom, I am doing as well as I have in an awfully long time.\u00a0 If you and Dad have some time tomorrow, Steven and I would like to sit and tell you some of this.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWith fear and trembling I led into it the next day.\u00a0 God really allowed a special time\u2014a beautiful spring day.\u00a0 We were all sitting outside.\u00a0 There was a little bit of small talk for a while and then I just kind of led into it and explained what happened to me at age 16.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was prepared with counseling and pastors that I might not get the response\u2014the desired response.\u00a0 I really needed to take myself off the hook and put the perpetrator on the hook.\u00a0 I wasn\u2019t sure what to expect. My parents just blew me away.\u00a0 My mom, without hesitation, stood up with tears in her eyes, just threw her arms around me and said, \u201cI am so sorry you felt like you couldn\u2019t come and tell us.\u201d\u00a0 My daddy followed suit.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had an amazing time of prayer.\u00a0 I feel like God redeemed something on that day.\u00a0 Wouldn\u2019t it be like our sweet Savior to let that happen on the weekend of Easter?\u2014the weekend of really being able to truly celebrate Christmas because of the cross.\u00a0 Christ came but He had to die for us.\u00a0 It was a pretty powerful time for us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is not even chronicled in the book because I just had to get to the place where then I could go home and write the experience so that when my parents read it, I could honor them in the telling of it.\u00a0 Again, when I say that if nobody reads this book other than the fact that I got to write it, and struggle through it\u2014and my husband can speak to that of watching me with physical headaches, physical sweating, physical trying to get this worded the way I wanted it to be\u2014if it is just to file up on my bookshelf, that is what it was for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Steven, when you get married, you have no idea all of that is wrapped up in the person that you receive as God\u2019s gift to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steven:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>In a very, almost paradoxical way, by going through some of these things as a couple, your marriage is stronger.\u00a0 Your relationship and love are deeper.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steven:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>How has it grown as a result of seeing Mary Beth process evil that was perpetrated upon her by an abuser?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Steven:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, I think we are still in the middle of that process.\u00a0 It is almost hard to even know how to answer that except to say that my heart breaks.\u00a0 Even as I would read the book as she was writing it, there is every emotion from anger and rage to want to go back and protect.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that is the hardest thing\u2014when you love someone\u2014this truly is the love of my life.\u00a0 I want to go back and undo\u2014go back and fix.\u00a0 That is part of the thing\u2014for all the things I miss in my non-structured, flighty-brained self\u2014I\u2019m a fixer.\u00a0 If there is a problem, I am going to do everything I can to try and fix it.\u00a0 The problem is what I can do is somewhat limited in my ability to fix things, particularly when it comes to scheduling, planning, structuring, and remembering; but I want to fix this.\u00a0 I want to fix the pain in my wife\u2019s heart.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it has been a greater dependence on the Savior.\u00a0 It has been a greater place of having to realize that we live in this world:\u00a0 \u201cYou will have trouble, but take heart I have overcome the world.\u201d\u00a0 It is a greater place of living in light of the hope that is coming.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tObviously, with losing Maria, for us just put a huge reality that this world is never going to be alright.\u00a0 We both grew up, and all of us in this circle, and probably most listening probably grew up with this gospel that says, \u201cGod loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life.\u201d\u00a0 You assume, because you are from America and you grew up in the good world that we grew up in, the wonderful plan for your life includes it is all\u2014if you do all these things\u2014it is all going to come together; it is all basically all work out.\u00a0 Your kids are going to act right.\u00a0 Your marriage is going to go well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCertainly, your children aren\u2019t going to be hit by a car driven by one of your other children.\u00a0 I mean, those kinds of things don\u2019t happen to Christians because you are living right and God has a wonderful plan for your life.\u00a0 I think journeying through this with my wife and even just having to realize that that is part of our story\u2014that is part of the woundedness that is going to create trust issues for her and it is going to create our struggle.\u00a0 It is going to be places where we are going to be broken until Jesus comes back.\u00a0 What is it going to look like to let God daily, hourly sometimes, redeem that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat thing that our pastor Scotty Smith says he learned from his spiritual father, \u201cCheer up.\u00a0 You are a whole lot worse off than you thought\u2014than you think; and you are a whole lot more loved than you ever dreamt and imagined.\u00a0 That is what our journey is 25 years into our marriage, 47 years in our life.\u00a0 I think we are just realizing we are more broken than we ever imagined.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is not about, \u201cHow are we going to get this all patched up and fixed up?\u201d\u00a0 It is, \u201cHow are we going to trust God to be enough?\u00a0 Is His grace really sufficient as He says?\u00a0 Can we really rest in that\u2014trust in that\u2014anchor to that?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf it is not true, then we are truly hopeless.\u00a0 It is like Paul says, \u201cIf our hope is only for this life, we are to be pitied.\u201d\u00a0 If it is to get it right here on this planet Earth to get everything figured out\u2014then we are foolish because it just isn\u2019t going to happen; but if our hope is anchored in the promise of God that there is a day coming He will wipe every tear from our eyes\u2014every wounded girl who was abused and every one of us.\u00a0 Because we know that day is coming, we can show up this day with whatever is ahead of us, whatever dark places we have to walk through and know that He will not leave us\u2014He will not forsake us.\u00a0 His grace will be enough.\u00a0 He will carry us through that.\u00a0 That is why we are sitting here holding hands with tears in our eyes saying, \u201cWe are still showing up for this journey.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You focus on relying on the grace of God.\u00a0 One of the things I found interesting in your book, Mary Beth, is you said you went a lot of years hearing about God and about Jesus and about the whole story of the Bible and didn\u2019t understand\u2014really didn\u2019t hear about grace.\u00a0 When did grace become something you understood?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary Beth:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It was after we were married.\u00a0 I believe that Emily had already been born when we started attending Christ Community Church.\u00a0 Scotty is our pastor.\u00a0 I remember sitting in the old chapel on Franklin, just Steven and I, starting to hear of this concept of grace and not works and not striving to be enough and not striving to do it right and not feeling like it was your fault or all of that.\u00a0 It really wasn\u2019t until I was already a young mother.\u00a0 Emily was five, maybe, when we started attending Christ Community.\u00a0 It was well into my journey, which, again, is part of the stuff that I carry with me as it pertains to how we deal with each other as spouses and parents and all of that.\u00a0 It is very good news to me when I heard Scotty Smith start preaching the doctrine of grace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Did it take a while for you to...\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary Beth:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 Just ask my husband!\u00a0 When you have been indoctrinated with works and being perfect and being good enough\u2014not to the blame of anybody other than the way I was wired, the way I heard it.\u00a0 Many, many times, seated with my granddad trying to ask exactly\u2014because I think God did put those questions in my at a young age\u2014I was trying to figure it out.\u00a0 It always came back to this life that I was living of, \u201cIt is works-oriented\u2014works-oriented\u2014works-oriented.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>We are all wired that way.\u00a0 Every one of us wants to self-justify.\u00a0 We want to be able to say, \u201cLook, God, at what I have done.\u00a0 Be pleased with this.\u201d\u00a0 The message of the gospel is a liberating, transforming life-changing message to say, \u201cThat stuff is worthless.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary Beth:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It is what Christ accomplished that has worth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>And you are never going to perform to be accepted by God.\u00a0 That is not how it works.\u00a0 The only way you can be accepted by God is through a personal relationship with His Son Jesus Christ.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOnce you have received His gift of grace for the forgiveness of all your sins\u2014past, present, and future\u2014you then begin the process at that point, I think, of beginning to go to the first grade of faith and learning about grace.\u00a0 Then you have the rest of your lifetime to begin to unpack that and find out what that really means in your life.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI agree with Bob; I don\u2019t think you are alone.\u00a0 I think most Christians today sit in the pew and they think they have to earn their way for God\u2019s acceptance.\u00a0 As long as the good\u2014I always picture scales.\u00a0 As long as the good has a bigger pile on the one side than the bad on the other side, they are in good standing with God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>We started out with how transparent you are in this book.\u00a0 It is only because of grace that you can be transparent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary Beth:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That is right.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It is only because you know your acceptance and worth is not based on what you can hold up and say, \u201cLook at how good I have done.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary Beth:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 Again, for me, it is a continuing choice to see it\u2014pardon the \u201cchoosing to see\u201d\u2014but a choice to see because I still have family members\u2014if I hear it once, I hear it over and over, \u201cI hope I have done enough.\u00a0 I hope I am going to heaven.\u00a0 I hope I...\u201d\u00a0 I just want to weep with them and say, \u201cThis is a finished work.\u00a0 This isn\u2019t something that changes tomorrow.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Nothing in my hand I bring.\u00a0 Only to thy cross I cling.\u00a0 Those are the words of the hymn.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis and Mary Beth:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>One of my favorite verses comes to mind in Galatians 5.\u00a0 \u201cFor freedom Christ has set us free.\u00a0 Stand firm therefore and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.\u201d\u00a0 Don\u2019t go back to trying to perfect your standing before God based upon your works.\u00a0 I have to admit\u2014I have been walking off and on, well now, for over 42 years with Christ.\u00a0 I have to say I keep struggling with this issue of better understanding; but, you know what, He finished it on the cross.\u00a0 It was paid in full.\u00a0 He is seated at the right hand of the Father.\u00a0 I don\u2019t have to do anything.\u00a0 I don\u2019t have to do anything to earn God\u2019s favor, God\u2019s goodness.\u00a0 He loves me no matter what; but because of that love, He calls me to obey Him.\u00a0 Therein lies the tension.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>In response to His grace, you want to obey Him.\u00a0 You want to surrender.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Surrender to Christ.\u00a0 You know, there has to be a listener right now who needs to just nail it\u2014surrender to the Savior.\u00a0 Jesus Christ didn\u2019t come to take sides.\u00a0 He came to take over.\u00a0 He came to take over human hearts.\u00a0 He came to see us open our hands like the song you were quoting just a few moments ago, Bob.\u00a0 Surrender to Him\u2014hold out our hands and say, \u201cI surrender to You, Master and Savior, Jesus Christ.\u00a0 Begin to make me the person You want me to be.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think your example of that is clear for not only listeners who have been with us today but anybody who reads a copy of the book <em>Choosing to SEE <\/em>because in the book you outline what one author calls the severe mercy\u2014the mercy of God to interrupt our lives to make us more like Jesus.\u00a0 I would encourage listeners to get a copy of Mary Beth\u2019s new book called <em>Choosing to SEE<\/em>.\u00a0 The subtitle here is <em>A Journey of Struggle and Hope<\/em>.\u00a0 I think you guys have talked openly about both of those being a part of your life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, go to FamilyLifeToday.com if you are interested in getting a copy of the book <em>Choosing to SEE<\/em> by Mary Beth Chapman.\u00a0 Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe should probably let our listeners know about the plans that we have together for the weekend of November 5th, 6th, and 7th.\u00a0 Show Hope and FamilyLife\u2019s Hope for Orphans, along with Focus on the Family and other organizations\u2014we have set that weekend aside as Orphan Sunday Weekend.\u00a0 We are making plans for a special webcast with Francis and Lisa Chan to draw attention to the plight of the orphan.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is a one-hour webcast, and it is available for churches or groups to use in whatever setting works for you.\u00a0 You can get more information about Orphan Sunday and about the one-hour webcast with Francis and Lisa Chan when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click on the Hope for Orphans link.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, we also have some copies of Steven Curtis Chapman\u2019s new music CD called <em>Beauty Will Rise<\/em>.\u00a0 We are making the CD <em>Beauty Will Rise<\/em> available this week if you can help support the ministry with a donation of any amount.\u00a0 We are listener-supported and depend on listener donations to be able to keep this program on this station and on other stations all around the country.\u00a0 We are asking if you can make a donation to help us this month, feel free to request a copy of the <em>Beauty Will Rise <\/em>CD from Steven Curtis Chapman.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you make your donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com, you will see a key code box on the donation form.\u00a0 Type the word \u201cCHAPMAN\u201d in there, and we will know to send you a CD; or call 1-800-FLTODAY\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014and just mention you would like a copy of the music CD from Steven Curtis Chapman when you make your donation.\u00a0 We will send it out to you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me say, \u201cThanks,\u201d in advance for your support of the ministry; and \u201cThanks,\u201d to all of you who were first-time donors during the month of August.\u00a0 Of course, today is the last day of August.\u00a0 It is the last day for us to add to our total of first-time donors.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are a regular listener of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and you have never made a donation, and you want to make one today and if you can make a donation of $100 or more today, we would love to send you a thank-you gift.\u00a0 That is a certificate so you and your spouse can attend one of our upcoming Weekend to Remember\u00ae marriage getaways\u2014a great weekend getaway for you and your spouse at any of the locations where the getaways are going to be held this fall.\u00a0 Again, go online at FamilyLifeToday.com and click where it says \u201cFirst-time Donor.\u201d\u00a0 We appreciate your financial gift to this ministry.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can be back with us tomorrow when Steven Curtis and Mary Beth Chapman are going to be here again.\u00a0 We will continue to hear about what God has been doing in the midst of a tragic situation for the Chapman family.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today Keith Lynch and our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our host Dennis Rainey; I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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