{"id":302019,"date":"2010-04-22T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2010-04-22T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/love-always-forgives\/"},"modified":"2010-04-22T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2010-04-22T15:00:00","slug":"love-always-forgives","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/love-always-forgives\/","title":{"rendered":"Love Always Forgives"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Today on the broadcast, Dennis Rainey talks with pastor Dave Harvey, author of the book When Sinners Say &#8220;I Do&#8221;, about the reality of conflict in marriage and the gift of forgiveness we can offer our mate when disagreements occur.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-04-22.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"25.95M","filesize_raw":"27212041","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809,2808],"tags":[4927,4086,4926,2877],"podcast_series":[7585],"cwp_profile":[3284],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302019","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","category-newlyweds","tag-challenges","tag-commitment","tag-faithfulness","tag-marriage","podcast_series-when-sinners-say-i-do","cwp_profile-dave-harvey","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302019\/love-always-forgives","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302019\/love-always-forgives","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"WuvSWWGVRV\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/love-always-forgives\/\">Love Always Forgives<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/love-always-forgives\/embed\/#?secret=WuvSWWGVRV\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Love Always Forgives&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"WuvSWWGVRV\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-04-22.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-04-22.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 One of the reasons why God allows us to experience conflict is to recognize what is in our heart, and so part of God's design in us coming together is to understand who we really are.\u00a0 So conflict is understandable, it's to be expected, and yet it's also an opportunity to go to school on who we really are and to apply the gospel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, April 22<sup>nd<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 If you've always assumed that conflict in your marriage was negative and you haven't seen the good in it well stay tuned.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition.\u00a0 I just have today and tomorrow to remind our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners about the buy-one-get-one free offer that we are making available this week for the Weekend to Remember marriage conference.\u00a0 We really want to see as many listeners as we can encourage to come out and spend a weekend with us at one of these conferences.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur team said let\u2019s offer this for one week and encourage <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners to come join us.\u00a0 If you register today, tomorrow or through the weekend for one of the Weekend to Remember conferences when you buy a registration at the regular rate we\u2019ll give you a second registration absolutely free.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s good this week only and you have to register by Sunday so today or tomorrow go online and find out when the conference is coming near a city where you live and get registered for the conference.\u00a0 If you register online type my name \u201cBOB\u201d in the key code box on the online donation form and you\u2019ll be eligible for this buy-one-get-one free offer.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr call 1-800-FL-TODAY and mention that you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> or tell them that Bob sent me.\u00a0 Again, you are eligible for the buy-one-get-one free offer that is good this week only.\u00a0 We really hope we hear from you and that you will come out and join us at one of our Weekend to Remember marriage conferences when it comes to a city near where you live.\u00a0 We have a bunch of these coming up in the next several weeks so go online and get registered for a weekend to remember.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are going to talk about the subject of marriage today.\u00a0 In fact if you were to get a copy of the book our guest has written and you picked up the book\u00a0 and when you read this title, you thought think, \"My spouse really needs this book\" \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf that's your first thought, then you really need that book, don't you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, you need it.\u00a0 You're pointing one finger at your spouse and three fingers are pointing back at you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The book we're talking about is called <em>When Sinners Say I Do,<\/em> and the author is Dave Harvey.\u00a0 Dave, welcome back to our broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Dave is a pastor for more than 20 years.\u00a0 He and his wife, Kim, along with their four children live in Westchester, Pennsylvania, along with their stray cat.\u00a0 Now, what's the story on the stray cat, and what's the beef about this?\u00a0 Because today we are going to talk about conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I don't like cats, and my family is aware that I don't like cats, and this cat was actually a rescue.\u00a0 It's a little odd for me to have been involved in that, but it was living in a dumpster up the street, and my daughter found it and decided that it would be a wonderful thing to bring it home to daddy and to ask him whether the cat can live with us in our home.\u00a0 And I don't like cats, but I love my daughter, and I love my wife, and they both like cats, so here we are with a cat.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You just need to read Dr. Seuss's book, \"The Cat in the Hat Fights Back.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are a lot of books I need to read.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You had a situation one evening with your wife, Kim, where you had a special evening all planned, and there was more to your plan than just a date night, and it kind of all backfired for you, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not one of my shining moments, yes, that's true.\u00a0 We were celebrating, I think it was anniversary, and decided to go downtown Philadelphia to a very nice restaurant and to enjoy the evening together.\u00a0 So this was one of those places that had real nice art on the wall and the waiters were dressed in tuxes, and so we're enjoying a dinner together, and I just had a thought that, well, in thinking back, it must have been demonic.\u00a0 I thought \u2013 I have been wanting an opportunity to offer this observation.\u00a0 Maybe this would be a good time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is something that you wanted to point out that would be an area for correction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 An area where I thought we could improve\u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Instruction, exhortation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Sadly, it drifted from there, though, into correction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Reformation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 And so I offered my \"observation\" and things began to deteriorate, and I didn't display the character to divert or bring it back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wait a second \u2013 what do you mean \"things began to deteriorate?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I think that, understandably, Kim didn't appreciate that it was being brought up at that time, and \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What did she do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, she reacted \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Her feelings were hurt, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes she was hurt that I would be thinking down that road on a night that was supposed to be dedicated to romance, and I don't blame her.\u00a0 If she had done that to me, I would have responded the same way, but this is the idiot she married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So it's not what you said that was a problem, or even how you said it that was a problem, it was when you said it that was the problem?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was the timing, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Which is something that I think \u2013 I'm making notes here, all right?\u00a0 So it's what and when and where \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was listening to your list.\u00a0 I mean, no wonder we have conflict.\u00a0 Because any one of those three \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I could mess up on any of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Will kill romance and a relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 That's very true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you knew right away that you had hurt her feelings, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I knew right away, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And so how did you seek to rescue the situation?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was very unwise.\u00a0 I didn't rescue it at all.\u00a0 I actually exacerbated it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You did, really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You escalated?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u00a0I escalated, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, buddy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I added an additional observation, and then threw in a pattern, and then pretty soon we had had one of the most expensive conflicts that we had ever had in our relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know I wish I could say that never has happened to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I have a feeling that a lot of your listeners wish it never had happened to them, either.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Man, you know, it's just inherent in the relationship, though, that you're going to disappoint one another, and that's why, in your book, you talk so much about conflict is inevitable, and we have to know how to deal with it and forgive one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just wish there was some way to get Kim's perspective on that whole evening.\u00a0 You know, to get her side of that story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 And she would love to give it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Do you have her cell phone number?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not for you men, no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let's go.\u00a0 This would be great, though.\u00a0 This really would add \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Don't you think we ought to bring her into this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[telephone conversation]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Hello, Kim?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Kim, this is Bob Lepine from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I'm sorry, dear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Hi.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Do you hear your husband there, Kim?\u00a0 This is Dennis Rainey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> I do, I do, hi.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 First I want to apologize, dear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Kim, we just visited a restaurant here with our listeners that I understand you went to as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We heard about going to Ruth's Chris and just \u2013 it was a fabulous evening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> T he conflict we had that night.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> [laughing] My face is red.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did you forgive him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I absolutely forgave him, but I might not this time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 This was not his idea.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I told you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 This was not his idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You're going to have forgive us.\u00a0 Your husband is in the clear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you for exonerating me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We held him down, we took his cell phone, and we got your number off of it, and he was protesting the whole time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 He's just told us about bringing up this issue, whatever it was, and we've been very nonspecific about the issue to protect everything in your relationship, but he said as soon as he brought it up that night at Ruth's Chris, it kind of hurt your feelings, is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, at the time, yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah and why did it hurt your feelings at the time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, to be totally honest, I'm not completely sure, because I don't remember all that much.\u00a0 I don't remember a lot about it that night.\u00a0 I remember he had said something that affected me very negatively.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And there is still bitterness and searing anger that is blocking this memory from your mind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 [laughing].\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Complete forgiveness, I would think.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That's where I'm going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It's total, it's gone.\u00a0 It's as far as the East is from the West.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 It completely is, wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Dear, hang up before they get into something else.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Kim, this is Dennis, and I honestly believe the fact that you can't remember the specifics is a great illustration \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0\u2026 that it was dealt with appropriately, and you did forgive him, and it hasn't \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And it didn't stick in your soul, you're not filled with bitterness and resentment, and you look back on that as this big, gigantic, negative deal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 My wife is a great and very experienced forgiver.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I do recognize myself, at times, as the greatest of sinners that I know, and I certainly don't want to be remembered for my sins and my weaknesses and dealt with out of that, so I do try to treat my husband like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Here is my question \u2013 have you been back to Ruth's Chris since that whole thing happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yes, we have.\u00a0 We have some wonderful times there, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, we have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So it's not like every time you go in the haunting memory of the terrible night is still there in the walls?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, no.\u00a0 Oh, no, not at all, not at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, if you'd said no we were going to buy you dinner at Ruth's Chris as our way of saying thanks, but since you've been back \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Quick, say no, dear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wait a minute, wait a minute, I seem to remember suddenly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Kim, I just want to ask you because your husband has said that you two are a little different, and \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Very.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I identify with that.\u00a0 Barbara and I are different.\u00a0 In fact, I married Barbara because she's different than me, and different isn't wrong, it's just different.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You liked it at the time, didn't you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I still like it.\u00a0 I really do, but there are times when it rubs me the wrong way.\u00a0 How would you describe your differences and how you've worked those out over your 25 years of marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I am married to a wonderful leader who understands grace, and leads in grace, and so he's led us through our differences well, and I attribute a lot of that to him.\u00a0 Oh, you know what?\u00a0 I'm in a grocery store, I'm so sorry, I'm getting bumped around here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think this is \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I'm sorry.\u00a0 I'm trying to \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 In fact, I'd like you to speak up on the subject of grace there in the store, and God could bring revival.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, not some of the people around me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We should let you get back to your shopping.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I am so sorry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, you know what?\u00a0 We just wanted to make sure that when you're getting one eyewitness account to a conflict, you just want to have some collaborating evidence, and you provided that for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You have authenticated his life and ministry, Kim, thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, thank you.\u00a0 Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I'm so sorry, dear, I love you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 [laughing]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 He's going to come back.\u00a0 He'll see you tonight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He'll have a gift certificate for Ruth's Chris.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 And please don't take this out on him, it's all our fault.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, thank you very much.\u00a0 Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Good talking to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, you, too.\u00a0 Bye-bye.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 You guys are far more mischievous than you appear to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, yes, that's actually true, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, but what we're looking for there is, honestly, the other half of the story, because as three men sitting in a studio, we're speaking to probably 60-70 percent women, and they really wanted to know her side of the story, and we got it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I have to tell you, I know there are a lot of folks who have heard us this week talking about issues of conflict in marriage, and they hear about things like somebody who doesn't keep the house clean enough or somebody who messes up at the restaurant, and they think, \"Look, if that was as bad as it got in my marriage, I would be able to live like a saint.\u00a0 I wouldn't need your book, either, but the issues I've got going on in my marriage are not that the sock drawer is messed up or that somebody spoke out of turn at a nice restaurant.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd you tackle that.\u00a0 In fact, you tell a story in the book about a couple that experienced some real trauma in their marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, can I just comment to those ladies first that you are referring to?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 One of the reasons why we've been brought together in this union, one of the reasons why God allows us to experience conflict is to recognize what is in our heart, and so part of God's design in us coming together is to understand who we really are.\u00a0 So conflict is understandable.\u00a0 It's to be expected and yet it's also an opportunity to go to school on who we really are and to apply the gospel and to see God glorified.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo for the ladies and the men that are listening, and you're in the middle of conflict, or you've just gotten through one, and maybe you're unsettled, or maybe you're newlyweds, and you're thinking, \"Oh, my, is this going to be what the future is all about?\"\u00a0 Conflict is part of what happens when people come together and part of what happens in marriage.\u00a0 And it's not as important that it happens, as much as it is what you're doing with it and what you're learning from it.\u00a0 It's what happens when sinners say, \"I do.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, in fact, the message of the gospel is about conflict and reconciliation.\u00a0 It's about God taking the initiative in the midst of broken relationship with humanity that occurs in Genesis, chapter 3.\u00a0 We are the ones who shook our fist in the face of God as humans and said, \"We'll run it our way.\u00a0 We are tired of your interference.\u00a0 We are rebels to your purpose.\"\u00a0 And God pursues us and reconciles us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo when couples are in conflict, you talk about applying the gospel, it really is the mandate of Scripture that we must seek a reconciled relationship.\u00a0 That's the heart of God toward us, and that needs to be our heart toward one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 And we have a Savior that meets us in those moments, and the goal is not simply that we see that we're sinners; it's that we move beyond that to see what an extraordinary Savior has been provided for us.\u00a0 So those conflicts, yeah, they may remind us of what sinners we are, but the goal is not to terminate there, it's to look up and beyond and see and be reminded of what we've been forgiven of and how great and glorious Jesus really is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 How did you fix the mess you made at Ruth's Chris?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we had to talk through it over the next couple of days, and it began with me shutting up long enough to formulate some questions that I could ask her about what she was really experiencing through what I had done.\u00a0 And so drawing her out and beginning to understand how unwise I was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, okay, but let me take you back to the big issues.\u00a0 You said conflict is going to be common in all marriage, and we need to pursue reconciliation, but there has been some profound hurt happen in some marriages.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou talk about Jeremy and Cindy, a couple that you mention in your book.\u00a0 They experienced not just little minor infractions but a major blow to their marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 They did, yes, Jeremy and Cindy got married and had a storybook life in the first few years.\u00a0 They were both upwardly mobile, ambitious, and committed to their careers, and yet still they were Christians, and they wanted to build a life together.\u00a0 But, sadly, they weren't aware of how their ambitions for themselves and their careers were driving them apart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd soon after they were married, Jeremy, sadly, committed adultery, and both of them came to a place where they never thought they would be.\u00a0 I mean, here they were Christians, and they had dedicated their lives to Christ, they had dedicated their lives to one another in marriage, and yet they were sitting there asking questions about whether this marriage was going to work.\u00a0 Could they go on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The foundation of trust in a marriage has been attacked when adultery has occurred, and there are a lot of people who think, \"I can't go on living in a marriage with somebody if I don't know that I can trust that that person is going to be faithful to me.\u00a0 What can I trust?\"\u00a0 I feel like the whole foundation of my marriage has been rocked.\u00a0 How can I remain safe and secure in this relationship given what's happened?\u00a0 What do you say to a couple in that environment?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I say that our answer can't begin with people, our answer must go to God and must go to the Savior, and we have to be reminded of what happened when Jesus Christ died for our sins, and the terrible and tremendous offenses that we were forgiven of.\u00a0 It's only the cross that puts the sins of other people into perspective.\u00a0 It's only as we look and as we perceive what actually we've been forgiven of that we can turn to somebody else who has sinned grievously against us and forgive them.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, that's the whole point of the parable of the unforgiving servant.\u00a0 He has forgiven a great debt, and yet he turns to somebody who owes him just a smaller amount and he begins to choke him saying, \"Pay what you owe,\" and that person, that's so often us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0 We've been forgiven a great debt by Jesus Christ.\u00a0 We've been forgiven a debt of sin that we've committed and so often we turn to one another, and we choke each other, and we say \"Pay what you owe,\" and don't understand how the gospel is supposed to apply in the realities of things like this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I have a friend of mine who was going through your book with a group of other guys, and when he got to this chapter on forgiveness, he said, \"That's our story.\"\u00a0 He and his wife had been on the mission field.\u00a0 She had sinned against him in that context.\u00a0 They'd had to come home from the mission field, and \u2013 well, let me just play for you some of his reflections as he read through this chapter on forgiveness in your book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob\u2019s friend:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 [from audiotape.] Three years ago, our family returned from the mission field because of a sin that occurred in the life of my wife, and I was the one who was the one who felt sinned against.\u00a0 But in the first six months after we returned from the mission field, my wife experienced repentance.\u00a0 It was in July of that year, two and a half years ago.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I was the one who felt like I had been sinned against, lost my ministry, lost all that I had studied and prepared for, and I wasn't willing to absorb that cost.\u00a0 It was a huge cost, and it says here, \"You endured a blow to your trust because of what he's done \u2013 or she, in this case \u2013 over a period of time.\u00a0 Will your heart attempt to force him to pay what he owes?\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, you know, that is me.\u00a0 I was the one that was saying \"Pay what you owe.\"\u00a0 God has forgiven me of such a great debt, and yet I've got my wife by the throat, so to speak, asking her to pay me what she owes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 As I was listening to him, I was thinking, \"How many married couples live right in the midst of what he was describing.\u00a0 Two people who are hurting each other in a cycle, back and forth, back and forth, but neither is willing to absorb the cost and forgive one another, and I just want to summarize what we've talked about here in three points.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber one, we get married to become one.\u00a0 We get married for intimacy.\u00a0 The problem with intimacy is when you get close, you're going to see stuff that you didn't bargain for, and you\u2019re going to get hurt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber two, sin separates.\u00a0 Selfishness divides.\u00a0 And you've got to decide at that point what are you going to do with your hurt?\u00a0 What are you going to do with your anger?\u00a0 And that's where what Dave is talking about here in his book, Bob, really is key.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber three, forgiveness unites \u2013 forgiveness unites because as, Dave, you pointed out, and I thought this was really good, Dave, because I've never thought about it from this standpoint \u2013 forgiveness does absorb the cost.\u00a0 It doesn't make light of the other person's betrayal, the hurt that they've caused you.\u00a0 It does contemplate what it means to have been hurt, betrayed, and disappointed.\u00a0 But then it goes beyond that to give up the right to punish the other person, and it decides not to live, as you said, Dave, and I thought this was excellent \u2013 not to live in bondage of resentment but to get busy rebuilding the oneness that you got married for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, I think, for many people, who as they think about forgiveness they think the hurt is so profound that there is a fear of forgiving for fear that you are just going to live in that hurt forever.\u00a0 But the reality is to not forgive is going to be more hurtful, more harmful, and more deadly for your marriage and for your relationship with God then to as an act of the will forgive the other person.\u00a0 You may have to do it over and over again as the emotions resurface you have to forgive again and again.\u00a0 Really it is that act of giving up the right to punish.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is something we spend a lot of time talking about at the Weekend to Remember marriage conference.\u00a0 I want to make sure our listeners know that today and tomorrow are the last two days we have an opportunity to remind you about the special offer we are making for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners this week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou and your spouse can attend a Weekend to Remember conference when it comes to a city near you this spring.\u00a0 You can attend when you buy a registration at the regular price the second registration is free.\u00a0 That offer is good this week only for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\u00a0 If you want to take advantage of it we need to hear from you either today or tomorrow.\u00a0 Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY for more information.\u00a0 We have a list of locations and dates on our website FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTo register and take advantage of this buy-one-get-one free offer just type my name \u201cBOB\u201d on the key code box on the online registration form.\u00a0 That way we know you are a FamilyLife Today listener and you\u2019re eligible for the buy-one-get-one free special offer we are making or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Tell them you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and you want to take advantage of this special offer.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you\u2019ll come join us at these weekend conferences.\u00a0 Learn more about how to deal with conflict in your marriage, communication, about intimacy and how we can draw closer in our sexual relationship, about our roles and responsibilities as husbands and wives.\u00a0 It\u2019s a great weekend.\u00a0 It\u2019s a rich weekend and it\u2019s a lot of fun.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you go online get more information about Dave\u2019s book.\u00a0 It\u2019s a great book that\u2019s called <em>When Sinners Say I Do<\/em>.\u00a0 It\u2019s a good book for husbands and wives to read together or do like I did go through it with a group of guys and go through it a chapter at a time.\u00a0 It\u2019ll challenge you and call you up to something deeper and more noble in your marriage relationship.\u00a0\u00a0 Again find out more at FamilyLifeToday.com or call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we want to invite you back.\u00a0 Dave Harvey is going to be here again and we are going to talk about what mercy ought to look like in a marriage relationship.\u00a0 I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.95M"],"filesize_raw":["27212041"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302019.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302019.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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on the broadcast, Dennis Rainey talks with pastor Dave Harvey, author of the book When Sinners Say \"I Do\", about the reality of conflict in marriage and the gift of forgiveness we can offer our mate when disagreements occur.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-04-22.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 One of the reasons why God allows us to experience conflict is to recognize what is in our heart, and so part of God's design in us coming together is to understand who we really are.\u00a0 So conflict is understandable, it's to be expected, and yet it's also an opportunity to go to school on who we really are and to apply the gospel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, April 22<sup>nd<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 If you've always assumed that conflict in your marriage was negative and you haven't seen the good in it well stay tuned.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition.\u00a0 I just have today and tomorrow to remind our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners about the buy-one-get-one free offer that we are making available this week for the Weekend to Remember marriage conference.\u00a0 We really want to see as many listeners as we can encourage to come out and spend a weekend with us at one of these conferences.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur team said let\u2019s offer this for one week and encourage <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners to come join us.\u00a0 If you register today, tomorrow or through the weekend for one of the Weekend to Remember conferences when you buy a registration at the regular rate we\u2019ll give you a second registration absolutely free.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s good this week only and you have to register by Sunday so today or tomorrow go online and find out when the conference is coming near a city where you live and get registered for the conference.\u00a0 If you register online type my name \u201cBOB\u201d in the key code box on the online donation form and you\u2019ll be eligible for this buy-one-get-one free offer.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr call 1-800-FL-TODAY and mention that you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> or tell them that Bob sent me.\u00a0 Again, you are eligible for the buy-one-get-one free offer that is good this week only.\u00a0 We really hope we hear from you and that you will come out and join us at one of our Weekend to Remember marriage conferences when it comes to a city near where you live.\u00a0 We have a bunch of these coming up in the next several weeks so go online and get registered for a weekend to remember.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are going to talk about the subject of marriage today.\u00a0 In fact if you were to get a copy of the book our guest has written and you picked up the book\u00a0 and when you read this title, you thought think, \"My spouse really needs this book\" \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf that's your first thought, then you really need that book, don't you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, you need it.\u00a0 You're pointing one finger at your spouse and three fingers are pointing back at you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The book we're talking about is called <em>When Sinners Say I Do,<\/em> and the author is Dave Harvey.\u00a0 Dave, welcome back to our broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Dave is a pastor for more than 20 years.\u00a0 He and his wife, Kim, along with their four children live in Westchester, Pennsylvania, along with their stray cat.\u00a0 Now, what's the story on the stray cat, and what's the beef about this?\u00a0 Because today we are going to talk about conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I don't like cats, and my family is aware that I don't like cats, and this cat was actually a rescue.\u00a0 It's a little odd for me to have been involved in that, but it was living in a dumpster up the street, and my daughter found it and decided that it would be a wonderful thing to bring it home to daddy and to ask him whether the cat can live with us in our home.\u00a0 And I don't like cats, but I love my daughter, and I love my wife, and they both like cats, so here we are with a cat.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You just need to read Dr. Seuss's book, \"The Cat in the Hat Fights Back.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 There are a lot of books I need to read.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You had a situation one evening with your wife, Kim, where you had a special evening all planned, and there was more to your plan than just a date night, and it kind of all backfired for you, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not one of my shining moments, yes, that's true.\u00a0 We were celebrating, I think it was anniversary, and decided to go downtown Philadelphia to a very nice restaurant and to enjoy the evening together.\u00a0 So this was one of those places that had real nice art on the wall and the waiters were dressed in tuxes, and so we're enjoying a dinner together, and I just had a thought that, well, in thinking back, it must have been demonic.\u00a0 I thought \u2013 I have been wanting an opportunity to offer this observation.\u00a0 Maybe this would be a good time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is something that you wanted to point out that would be an area for correction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 An area where I thought we could improve\u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Instruction, exhortation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Sadly, it drifted from there, though, into correction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Reformation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 And so I offered my \"observation\" and things began to deteriorate, and I didn't display the character to divert or bring it back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wait a second \u2013 what do you mean \"things began to deteriorate?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I think that, understandably, Kim didn't appreciate that it was being brought up at that time, and \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What did she do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, she reacted \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Her feelings were hurt, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes she was hurt that I would be thinking down that road on a night that was supposed to be dedicated to romance, and I don't blame her.\u00a0 If she had done that to me, I would have responded the same way, but this is the idiot she married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So it's not what you said that was a problem, or even how you said it that was a problem, it was when you said it that was the problem?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 It was the timing, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Which is something that I think \u2013 I'm making notes here, all right?\u00a0 So it's what and when and where \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was listening to your list.\u00a0 I mean, no wonder we have conflict.\u00a0 Because any one of those three \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I could mess up on any of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Will kill romance and a relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 That's very true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And you knew right away that you had hurt her feelings, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I knew right away, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And so how did you seek to rescue the situation?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I was very unwise.\u00a0 I didn't rescue it at all.\u00a0 I actually exacerbated it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You did, really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You escalated?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u00a0I escalated, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, buddy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I added an additional observation, and then threw in a pattern, and then pretty soon we had had one of the most expensive conflicts that we had ever had in our relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know I wish I could say that never has happened to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I have a feeling that a lot of your listeners wish it never had happened to them, either.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Man, you know, it's just inherent in the relationship, though, that you're going to disappoint one another, and that's why, in your book, you talk so much about conflict is inevitable, and we have to know how to deal with it and forgive one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just wish there was some way to get Kim's perspective on that whole evening.\u00a0 You know, to get her side of that story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 And she would love to give it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Do you have her cell phone number?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Not for you men, no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Let's go.\u00a0 This would be great, though.\u00a0 This really would add \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Don't you think we ought to bring her into this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[telephone conversation]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Hello, Kim?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Kim, this is Bob Lepine from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I'm sorry, dear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Hi.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Do you hear your husband there, Kim?\u00a0 This is Dennis Rainey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> I do, I do, hi.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 First I want to apologize, dear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Kim, we just visited a restaurant here with our listeners that I understand you went to as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We heard about going to Ruth's Chris and just \u2013 it was a fabulous evening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> T he conflict we had that night.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong> [laughing] My face is red.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Did you forgive him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I absolutely forgave him, but I might not this time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 This was not his idea.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I told you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 This was not his idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You're going to have forgive us.\u00a0 Your husband is in the clear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Thank you for exonerating me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We held him down, we took his cell phone, and we got your number off of it, and he was protesting the whole time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 He's just told us about bringing up this issue, whatever it was, and we've been very nonspecific about the issue to protect everything in your relationship, but he said as soon as he brought it up that night at Ruth's Chris, it kind of hurt your feelings, is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, at the time, yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah and why did it hurt your feelings at the time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, to be totally honest, I'm not completely sure, because I don't remember all that much.\u00a0 I don't remember a lot about it that night.\u00a0 I remember he had said something that affected me very negatively.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 And there is still bitterness and searing anger that is blocking this memory from your mind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 [laughing].\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Complete forgiveness, I would think.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That's where I'm going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 It's total, it's gone.\u00a0 It's as far as the East is from the West.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 It completely is, wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Dear, hang up before they get into something else.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Kim, this is Dennis, and I honestly believe the fact that you can't remember the specifics is a great illustration \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0\u2026 that it was dealt with appropriately, and you did forgive him, and it hasn't \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 And it didn't stick in your soul, you're not filled with bitterness and resentment, and you look back on that as this big, gigantic, negative deal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 My wife is a great and very experienced forgiver.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I do recognize myself, at times, as the greatest of sinners that I know, and I certainly don't want to be remembered for my sins and my weaknesses and dealt with out of that, so I do try to treat my husband like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Here is my question \u2013 have you been back to Ruth's Chris since that whole thing happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, yes, we have.\u00a0 We have some wonderful times there, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes, we have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 So it's not like every time you go in the haunting memory of the terrible night is still there in the walls?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, no.\u00a0 Oh, no, not at all, not at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, if you'd said no we were going to buy you dinner at Ruth's Chris as our way of saying thanks, but since you've been back \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Quick, say no, dear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Wait a minute, wait a minute, I seem to remember suddenly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Kim, I just want to ask you because your husband has said that you two are a little different, and \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Very.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I identify with that.\u00a0 Barbara and I are different.\u00a0 In fact, I married Barbara because she's different than me, and different isn't wrong, it's just different.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You liked it at the time, didn't you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I still like it.\u00a0 I really do, but there are times when it rubs me the wrong way.\u00a0 How would you describe your differences and how you've worked those out over your 25 years of marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I am married to a wonderful leader who understands grace, and leads in grace, and so he's led us through our differences well, and I attribute a lot of that to him.\u00a0 Oh, you know what?\u00a0 I'm in a grocery store, I'm so sorry, I'm getting bumped around here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think this is \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I'm sorry.\u00a0 I'm trying to \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 In fact, I'd like you to speak up on the subject of grace there in the store, and God could bring revival.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, not some of the people around me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 We should let you get back to your shopping.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 I am so sorry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 No, you know what?\u00a0 We just wanted to make sure that when you're getting one eyewitness account to a conflict, you just want to have some collaborating evidence, and you provided that for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You have authenticated his life and ministry, Kim, thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, thank you.\u00a0 Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 I'm so sorry, dear, I love you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 [laughing]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 He's going to come back.\u00a0 He'll see you tonight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 He'll have a gift certificate for Ruth's Chris.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 And please don't take this out on him, it's all our fault.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, thank you very much.\u00a0 Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Good talking to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kim:<\/strong>\u00a0 Okay, you, too.\u00a0 Bye-bye.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 You guys are far more mischievous than you appear to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, yes, that's actually true, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, but what we're looking for there is, honestly, the other half of the story, because as three men sitting in a studio, we're speaking to probably 60-70 percent women, and they really wanted to know her side of the story, and we got it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I have to tell you, I know there are a lot of folks who have heard us this week talking about issues of conflict in marriage, and they hear about things like somebody who doesn't keep the house clean enough or somebody who messes up at the restaurant, and they think, \"Look, if that was as bad as it got in my marriage, I would be able to live like a saint.\u00a0 I wouldn't need your book, either, but the issues I've got going on in my marriage are not that the sock drawer is messed up or that somebody spoke out of turn at a nice restaurant.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd you tackle that.\u00a0 In fact, you tell a story in the book about a couple that experienced some real trauma in their marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, can I just comment to those ladies first that you are referring to?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 One of the reasons why we've been brought together in this union, one of the reasons why God allows us to experience conflict is to recognize what is in our heart, and so part of God's design in us coming together is to understand who we really are.\u00a0 So conflict is understandable.\u00a0 It's to be expected and yet it's also an opportunity to go to school on who we really are and to apply the gospel and to see God glorified.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo for the ladies and the men that are listening, and you're in the middle of conflict, or you've just gotten through one, and maybe you're unsettled, or maybe you're newlyweds, and you're thinking, \"Oh, my, is this going to be what the future is all about?\"\u00a0 Conflict is part of what happens when people come together and part of what happens in marriage.\u00a0 And it's not as important that it happens, as much as it is what you're doing with it and what you're learning from it.\u00a0 It's what happens when sinners say, \"I do.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, in fact, the message of the gospel is about conflict and reconciliation.\u00a0 It's about God taking the initiative in the midst of broken relationship with humanity that occurs in Genesis, chapter 3.\u00a0 We are the ones who shook our fist in the face of God as humans and said, \"We'll run it our way.\u00a0 We are tired of your interference.\u00a0 We are rebels to your purpose.\"\u00a0 And God pursues us and reconciles us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo when couples are in conflict, you talk about applying the gospel, it really is the mandate of Scripture that we must seek a reconciled relationship.\u00a0 That's the heart of God toward us, and that needs to be our heart toward one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 And we have a Savior that meets us in those moments, and the goal is not simply that we see that we're sinners; it's that we move beyond that to see what an extraordinary Savior has been provided for us.\u00a0 So those conflicts, yeah, they may remind us of what sinners we are, but the goal is not to terminate there, it's to look up and beyond and see and be reminded of what we've been forgiven of and how great and glorious Jesus really is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 How did you fix the mess you made at Ruth's Chris?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, we had to talk through it over the next couple of days, and it began with me shutting up long enough to formulate some questions that I could ask her about what she was really experiencing through what I had done.\u00a0 And so drawing her out and beginning to understand how unwise I was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, okay, but let me take you back to the big issues.\u00a0 You said conflict is going to be common in all marriage, and we need to pursue reconciliation, but there has been some profound hurt happen in some marriages.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou talk about Jeremy and Cindy, a couple that you mention in your book.\u00a0 They experienced not just little minor infractions but a major blow to their marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 They did, yes, Jeremy and Cindy got married and had a storybook life in the first few years.\u00a0 They were both upwardly mobile, ambitious, and committed to their careers, and yet still they were Christians, and they wanted to build a life together.\u00a0 But, sadly, they weren't aware of how their ambitions for themselves and their careers were driving them apart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd soon after they were married, Jeremy, sadly, committed adultery, and both of them came to a place where they never thought they would be.\u00a0 I mean, here they were Christians, and they had dedicated their lives to Christ, they had dedicated their lives to one another in marriage, and yet they were sitting there asking questions about whether this marriage was going to work.\u00a0 Could they go on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 The foundation of trust in a marriage has been attacked when adultery has occurred, and there are a lot of people who think, \"I can't go on living in a marriage with somebody if I don't know that I can trust that that person is going to be faithful to me.\u00a0 What can I trust?\"\u00a0 I feel like the whole foundation of my marriage has been rocked.\u00a0 How can I remain safe and secure in this relationship given what's happened?\u00a0 What do you say to a couple in that environment?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I say that our answer can't begin with people, our answer must go to God and must go to the Savior, and we have to be reminded of what happened when Jesus Christ died for our sins, and the terrible and tremendous offenses that we were forgiven of.\u00a0 It's only the cross that puts the sins of other people into perspective.\u00a0 It's only as we look and as we perceive what actually we've been forgiven of that we can turn to somebody else who has sinned grievously against us and forgive them.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, that's the whole point of the parable of the unforgiving servant.\u00a0 He has forgiven a great debt, and yet he turns to somebody who owes him just a smaller amount and he begins to choke him saying, \"Pay what you owe,\" and that person, that's so often us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0 We've been forgiven a great debt by Jesus Christ.\u00a0 We've been forgiven a debt of sin that we've committed and so often we turn to one another, and we choke each other, and we say \"Pay what you owe,\" and don't understand how the gospel is supposed to apply in the realities of things like this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I have a friend of mine who was going through your book with a group of other guys, and when he got to this chapter on forgiveness, he said, \"That's our story.\"\u00a0 He and his wife had been on the mission field.\u00a0 She had sinned against him in that context.\u00a0 They'd had to come home from the mission field, and \u2013 well, let me just play for you some of his reflections as he read through this chapter on forgiveness in your book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob\u2019s friend:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 [from audiotape.] Three years ago, our family returned from the mission field because of a sin that occurred in the life of my wife, and I was the one who was the one who felt sinned against.\u00a0 But in the first six months after we returned from the mission field, my wife experienced repentance.\u00a0 It was in July of that year, two and a half years ago.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I was the one who felt like I had been sinned against, lost my ministry, lost all that I had studied and prepared for, and I wasn't willing to absorb that cost.\u00a0 It was a huge cost, and it says here, \"You endured a blow to your trust because of what he's done \u2013 or she, in this case \u2013 over a period of time.\u00a0 Will your heart attempt to force him to pay what he owes?\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, you know, that is me.\u00a0 I was the one that was saying \"Pay what you owe.\"\u00a0 God has forgiven me of such a great debt, and yet I've got my wife by the throat, so to speak, asking her to pay me what she owes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 As I was listening to him, I was thinking, \"How many married couples live right in the midst of what he was describing.\u00a0 Two people who are hurting each other in a cycle, back and forth, back and forth, but neither is willing to absorb the cost and forgive one another, and I just want to summarize what we've talked about here in three points.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber one, we get married to become one.\u00a0 We get married for intimacy.\u00a0 The problem with intimacy is when you get close, you're going to see stuff that you didn't bargain for, and you\u2019re going to get hurt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber two, sin separates.\u00a0 Selfishness divides.\u00a0 And you've got to decide at that point what are you going to do with your hurt?\u00a0 What are you going to do with your anger?\u00a0 And that's where what Dave is talking about here in his book, Bob, really is key.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber three, forgiveness unites \u2013 forgiveness unites because as, Dave, you pointed out, and I thought this was really good, Dave, because I've never thought about it from this standpoint \u2013 forgiveness does absorb the cost.\u00a0 It doesn't make light of the other person's betrayal, the hurt that they've caused you.\u00a0 It does contemplate what it means to have been hurt, betrayed, and disappointed.\u00a0 But then it goes beyond that to give up the right to punish the other person, and it decides not to live, as you said, Dave, and I thought this was excellent \u2013 not to live in bondage of resentment but to get busy rebuilding the oneness that you got married for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, I think, for many people, who as they think about forgiveness they think the hurt is so profound that there is a fear of forgiving for fear that you are just going to live in that hurt forever.\u00a0 But the reality is to not forgive is going to be more hurtful, more harmful, and more deadly for your marriage and for your relationship with God then to as an act of the will forgive the other person.\u00a0 You may have to do it over and over again as the emotions resurface you have to forgive again and again.\u00a0 Really it is that act of giving up the right to punish.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is something we spend a lot of time talking about at the Weekend to Remember marriage conference.\u00a0 I want to make sure our listeners know that today and tomorrow are the last two days we have an opportunity to remind you about the special offer we are making for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners this week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou and your spouse can attend a Weekend to Remember conference when it comes to a city near you this spring.\u00a0 You can attend when you buy a registration at the regular price the second registration is free.\u00a0 That offer is good this week only for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\u00a0 If you want to take advantage of it we need to hear from you either today or tomorrow.\u00a0 Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY for more information.\u00a0 We have a list of locations and dates on our website FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTo register and take advantage of this buy-one-get-one free offer just type my name \u201cBOB\u201d on the key code box on the online registration form.\u00a0 That way we know you are a FamilyLife Today listener and you\u2019re eligible for the buy-one-get-one free special offer we are making or call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 Tell them you listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and you want to take advantage of this special offer.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you\u2019ll come join us at these weekend conferences.\u00a0 Learn more about how to deal with conflict in your marriage, communication, about intimacy and how we can draw closer in our sexual relationship, about our roles and responsibilities as husbands and wives.\u00a0 It\u2019s a great weekend.\u00a0 It\u2019s a rich weekend and it\u2019s a lot of fun.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you go online get more information about Dave\u2019s book.\u00a0 It\u2019s a great book that\u2019s called <em>When Sinners Say I Do<\/em>.\u00a0 It\u2019s a good book for husbands and wives to read together or do like I did go through it with a group of guys and go through it a chapter at a time.\u00a0 It\u2019ll challenge you and call you up to something deeper and more noble in your marriage relationship.\u00a0\u00a0 Again find out more at FamilyLifeToday.com or call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we want to invite you back.\u00a0 Dave Harvey is going to be here again and we are going to talk about what mercy ought to look like in a marriage relationship.\u00a0 I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302019","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302019"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302019"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302019"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302019"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302019"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302019"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302019"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}