{"id":302014,"date":"2010-04-14T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2010-04-14T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/restoring-a-marriage\/"},"modified":"2010-04-14T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2010-04-14T15:00:00","slug":"restoring-a-marriage","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/restoring-a-marriage\/","title":{"rendered":"Restoring a Marriage"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>How do you restore a marriage damaged by sexual addiction?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-04-14.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"22.42M","filesize_raw":"23504077","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2840,2903],"tags":[2487],"podcast_series":[7720],"cwp_profile":[8961],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302014","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-addiction","category-infidelity","tag-sexual-addiction","podcast_series-undefiled","cwp_profile-dr-harry-schaumburg","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302014\/restoring-a-marriage","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302014\/restoring-a-marriage","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"mQO3oFryry\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/restoring-a-marriage\/\">Restoring a Marriage<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/restoring-a-marriage\/embed\/#?secret=mQO3oFryry\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Restoring a Marriage&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"mQO3oFryry\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var 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is something that really needs to be lived in our masculinity as men.\u00a0 I think other men need to call men to accountability at that level.\u00a0 Now, I think that if a woman says to a man, \u201cWhen are you going to be a man?\u201d\u00a0 It can sound like a mother.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, April 14th.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will talk today about what spouses and friends can do and ought not try to do in helping someone be set free from bondage to sexual sin.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 You know, we have been trying to spend some time here this week (and I should just mention again that this is a subject that parents may want to determine if they would like their younger children to be in the room while we are having this conversation because we are) talking about what happens when sexual sin is present, in a marriage relationship particularly.\u00a0 I use the term of an earthquake or an explosion going off in a marriage when something like this is uncovered.\u00a0 I think for a lot of people, you look at this and you wonder, \u201cCan what has been damaged be repaired when there has been significant sexual sin taking place?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 Just you describing that, Bob, reminds me of a private post on my wall on Facebook.\u00a0 I am not able to respond to every post, every question that people ask me\u2014there are simply too many of them\u2014but let me introduce our guest here real quickly and then I want to read this post and have him respond to it.\u00a0 I want to share with our listeners what I said in response to this.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDr. Harry Schaumburg joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 He is the author of <em>Undefiled<\/em>, which is subtitled <em>Redemption from Sexual Sin, Restoration for Broken Relationships<\/em>.\u00a0 He is a counselor, an author, a speaker, lives in the Colorado Springs area, and he and his wife have been married for 41 years.\u00a0 Harry, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It is good to be here again because we are dealing with something that is very important to all of us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It really is.\u00a0 Let me read you this post on my Facebook wall.\u00a0 \u201cDennis, you don\u2019t know me but I want to reach out to you because you are an expert on relationships.\u00a0 I have hurt my wife\u2019s heart tremendously and now fear losing her.\u00a0 She found porn for the second time on our computer where I have been.\u00a0 She is very upset and is not speaking to me.\u00a0 She sent me a text today and she hates her life and wants me to sell the house.\u00a0 I am truly remorseful and am not ready to give up on my marriage.\u201d\u00a0 He goes on to tell about a ministry he has to other married couples in their local church.\u00a0 He said, \u201cHelp.\u00a0 Do you have any?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wrote him back.\u00a0 Here is what I wrote him back.\u00a0 Again, Facebook is by no means a thorough realm to address needs like this; but this is what I said to him, \u201cWithout knowing all the details, I can only give you general advice:\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber 1:\u00a0 Go to the elder board of your church and confess your history and present sin.\u00a0 Then repent and come clean.\u00a0 Secondly, place yourself under the authority of two or three elders who will be appointed by that elder board to help you begin to deal with your sin, pray with you and for you, and establish an accountability process for the next couple of years for you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThird, ask those men to meet with your wife and see if they are able to come up with a 6- or 12-month emergency game plan that might save your marriage.\u00a0 And lastly:\u00a0 Fully repent with your wife and keep repenting, asking God to give you courage and faith to show your wife real love.\u00a0 Then I want you to write me in six months and tell me how it is going.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow in this electronic age, I have to say there is a side of me that doesn\u2019t even want to attempt something on Facebook that is so tragic and has so many ramifications; but tell me where I have gone wrong here in what I have written or where I am spot on, and what would you say to this young man in order to deal with this sin he is facing in his life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Dennis, I think you are right on target.\u00a0 I think that is exactly what needs to be said to a man in that situation.\u00a0 I think if I was to emphasize something in addition, and I think you implied it very strongly, but I think we need to say, \u201cThere really is hope.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs Bob pointed out, this is like an earthquake.\u00a0 I call it a nuclear meltdown because the radiation fallout for years to come is enough to kill you\u2014in a marriage.\u00a0 In that kind of devastation, we really, really have to believe and know that there is a God.\u00a0 That is why we wrote this book <em>Undefiled<\/em>.\u00a0 It has taken 18 years of working with hundreds and hundreds of people, couples just like the one you are communicating with, and saying, \u201cGod can really change the heart.\u00a0 God can change the behavior\u2014it can heal the marriage.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really believe because we have seen it for 18 years.\u00a0 I believe that you can even have a more godly marriage and a stronger marriage in this kind of devastation, even though that person feels absolutely hopeless right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Harry, there are a lot of areas in a marriage where trust can be violated.\u00a0 You can violate trust around financial areas, around raising the kids, around just your word\u2014where you said you were going to be and you weren\u2019t there.\u00a0 When trust is violated in the area of our sexual relationship, whether it is through pornography or adultery, there is something that is more central, more core, deeper about that, than any other trust violation; isn\u2019t there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, I refer to it as trust being shattered.\u00a0 If you take a glass and slam it down on the concrete, you shatter it.\u00a0 How in the world do you put that glass back together again?\u00a0 That is what we are talking about.\u00a0 How do you develop trust again?\u00a0 I think if you work directly at trusting, you are not on target.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me explain what I mean by that.\u00a0 You do all the things you are supposed to do, you keep yourself accountable, and you put Covenant Eyes on your computer.\u00a0 You know, you get people asking you hard questions and you keep reporting that you are doing well.\u00a0 That can be a performance; that can be a behavioral level.\u00a0 How do you trust that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s the catch:\u00a0 If for 20 years a woman has not known about the secret sexual sin, the first question of mistrust is, \u201cHow do I know if he goes back to doing it again?\u201d\u00a0 Here is the issue of trust, then.\u00a0 Can we trust what God has done in a person?\u00a0 What we teach in our counseling program is, \u201cDon\u2019t trust in:\u00a0\u00a0 a blind kind of way, hopeful in putting your best face forward, let\u2019s believe that something can be better\u2014a positive kind of attitude.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Or maybe in an enabling way where you actually believe too much in the other person, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, yes.\u00a0 Why shouldn\u2019t we say, \u201cHey, you know, since you lied to me for 20 years, how can I trust you again?\u201d\u00a0 There is validity to that statement, but not with resentment and bitterness.\u00a0 So if we are going to go forward in a relationship, I think there has to be real concern about the mistrust leading to suspicion, resentment, and bitterness.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn the part of building the relationship again, it is a simple concept that we can miss the truth and the power of God in sexual redemption.\u00a0 That is, we need to trust what God has done in this person.\u00a0 It goes back to what we said before about a person being completely different.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf a man looks at his wife and says, \u201cI am not looking at pornography;\u201d \u201cI have discontinued the affair.\u201d\u00a0 A man can look right into his wife\u2019s eyes and lie.\u00a0 They have been doing it for 20 years.\u00a0 They can continue to do it.\u00a0 This wife goes, \u201cWell, how can I trust?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIs he becoming a different man?\u2014meaning that the whole self-centeredness of his nature, his approach to relationship with her, even his approach to his children, to material things, to his spiritual life.\u00a0 Can we see something completely different about this person?\u00a0 Meaning it is the work of God, and I can trust that\u2014not just a behavioral management.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Let\u2019s say a wife became aware six months ago that her husband was involved in some kind of sexual sin; he was looking at pornography on the internet or he had been involved in an affair.\u00a0 The wife hears her husband.\u00a0 He says, \u201cI am sorry.\u00a0 I want to rebuild trust.\u00a0 I am going to change.\u00a0 I\u2019ll get some accountability.\u00a0 I\u2019ll follow Dennis\u2019 advice.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I hear you saying is, \u201cWhat the wife really needs to be looking for is, \u2018Is this man becoming a different person?\u2019\u2014not just, \u2018Am I not seeing the behavior, but am I seeing a manifestation of growth in godliness in every aspect of his life?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think what Bob wants to ask on behalf of that wife who has been betrayed here, not once but twice now, at least in this Facebook posting--he wants to help a wife know, \u201cWhat does a repenting husband look like?\u201d\u00a0 Unpack that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think a repenting husband is a husband who in all the different areas she is so very, very familiar with, this man is not moving in a direction to take care of himself, but he is learning to take care of her.\u00a0 He is learning to cherish her.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is not a technique that Dennis Rainey or Bob Lepine or Harry Schaumburg is teaching this man.\u00a0 This is a transformation on the inside, in his own heart, where he is expressing, if you will, the fruit of the Spirit.\u00a0 He is expressing the fruit of repentance so that she goes, \u201cYou know there is something different about this guy.\u201d\u00a0 On the outside\u2014people looking in who are not in this marriage\u2014they wouldn\u2019t even see the differences because the wife is intimately aware of where this man lives for himself.\u00a0 She is seeing these subtle shifts and changes in his attitude.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>And to the wife who is seeing the opposite?\u00a0 I mean, he has mouthed repentance; he said the words\u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It is a false repentance.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>How is she to respond to that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think we are back to the wife who has really got to say, \u201cWhat does God call me to do in terms of being a godly wife who can present and offer something in my own being and in my own femininity and who I am as a godly woman that is more appealing to the inherent nature of a man created in the image of God?\u201d\u00a0 She can say, \u201cI can be that gentle, quiet woman\u2014that 1 Peter 3 woman where he can see something in me that he is drawn to.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think when a woman is dealing with a man who has a hard heart and is resisting the truth, I think that we draw one another, not just to ourselves, but we draw one another to Christ.\u00a0 What can she be that is appealing to him, to invite him, and to pull him toward the truth?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Would you ever counsel a woman to maybe separate for a while until he can get his act together and show some demonstration that he is serious about dealing with this issue?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I\u2019ll add a little different flavor to what Bob said.\u00a0 Let\u2019s go back to my advice to this gentleman on Facebook.\u00a0 Maybe, \u201cGo to the elder board of your church because he is going to church and acts like he is living as a Christian and has false piety.\u201d\u00a0 Would you advise a woman at that point to call a couple of the elders and engage them in her marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think if you have a man who is resisting help\u2014call it a man who wants to live in his sexual sin and is blatantly telling his wife, \u201cLook, you know, the people at church might not think this is a good thing; but, you know, this is not what you are making it out to be.\u00a0 I don\u2019t really have a problem.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think she can go to her elders, godly men who would be willing to confront him as a man and literally sit him down and say, \u201cHey, here is the information; here is the evidence.\u201d\u00a0 Help him see the problem by challenging him and confronting him.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>So back to Bob\u2019s question.\u00a0 There really is a time for a woman to \u201cdraw a line in the sand\u201d and call the man to step up?\u00a0 I am not talking about divorce, now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 The line in the sand is saying, \u201cWhen are you going to be a man?\u201d\u00a0 Now, I think if a woman says to a man, \u201cWhen are you going to be a man?\u201d, it can sound like a mother; but when men, godly men in leadership within the church, come to that man and say, \u201cWhen are you going to be a man?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have often said that to people in counseling, \u201cWhen are you going to be a man?\u00a0 When are you going to step up?\u00a0 When are you going to really love your wife as Christ loved the church?\u00a0 That is not a little phrase in the Bible that we can ignored.\u00a0 That is something that really needs to be lived in our masculinity as men.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think other men need to call men to accountability at that level.\u00a0 Wives need to have a place where they can go in terms of leadership\u2014elders in the church and say, \u201cHey, I need help here.\u00a0 My husband is doing this, and he won\u2019t stop.\u201d\u00a0 That is the line in the sand.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn the question of separation, I take a very, very narrow view.\u00a0 I would say, \u201cYou separate when there is physical abuse.\u201d\u00a0 Until then, \u201cHave him sleep in the guest room; have him sleep in the basement; maybe the garage if it is a warm climate.\u201d\u00a0 To kick him out of the house, I think, there are a lot of problems with that that we just have failed to really identify.\u00a0 One is that the guy becomes so full of his self-pity that he goes out and does something worse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It justifies worse behavior.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Absolutely.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You talked about somebody who had been unfaithful with more than 100 women.\u00a0 Can there be restoration for that kind of shattered glass?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That man and his wife have been since then married over 15 years, continuing on and growing in the relationship, growing spiritually.\u00a0 So, yes, there can be a real healing of that marriage and, I think, even a stronger marriage.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what I hear in terms of stronger marriage, Bob.\u00a0 You hear the wife saying, \u201cMy husband is a different man,\u201d when you ask, \u201cHow are you doing?\u201d\u00a0 I think that reflects a deeper change.\u00a0 Then I have heard wives also say, \u201cI would never change the past if it meant I would lose what I now have.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo you take that nightmare of discovering a sexual sin, which at the time is absolutely devastating.\u00a0 In two or three years down the road, that same woman who wept in my counseling office over the horror of what her husband has done, is saying to me and looking me in the eye, \u201cHarry, I would never change what happened three years ago if it meant I would now lose what I have with the Lord and what I have with my husband.\u201d\u00a0 That is what we are talking about in terms of real hope and real change.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>The gains that were realized through the loss and the betrayal were worth it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That is pretty powerful.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That is powerful.\u00a0 The gospel is powerful.\u00a0 Isn\u2019t that a novel idea?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I keep looking at the shattered glass on the floor.\u00a0 Anybody who has ever seen a glass drop on a concrete floor knows it doesn\u2019t break into pieces but into slivers.\u00a0 That is about as hopeless a picture as I can imagine.\u00a0 Yet, what you are saying is, \u201cBecause Christ died on the cross for our selfishness, our sins, was buried on the third day, rose again, and because He defeated death, because He is seated at the right hand of God, the Father, He can raise a dead marriage.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>He can put the shattered pieces back together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>He can get all those fragments and put something together, what you are saying, is far more magnificent than what was dropped on the floor in the first place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>And maybe would never have happened if it hadn\u2019t been dropped on the floor in the first place because they would have gone on living happily ever after, believing that everything was okay, and living more like roommates\u2014than in a deeper real intimacy in their marriage\u2014spiritually shallow\u2014you know attending church regularly but not having the real power of God demonstrated in their own lives.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I don\u2019t do this often but I feel like we need to have a brief prayer right here.\u00a0 What I\u2019d like to ask you to do, Harry, is pray for that couple.\u00a0 It may be the man\u2019s behavior that resulted in the glass; it may be his wife.\u00a0 Would you pray for them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Sure.\u00a0 I\u2019d be glad to do that.\u00a0 \u201cFather, this couple that Dennis has referred to is unfortunately just another part of the reality that exists around all of us if we would just open up our eyes.\u00a0 We have knowledge and information about this one couple.\u00a0 We know that you have a greater knowledge, and a greater understanding, and a greater compassion than our own hearts feel.\u00a0 We know that You can work.\u00a0 We pray that their hearts and their minds will be turned toward You, toward the truth of the gospel, the power and the finished work of the cross, and that you will build a relationship that truly glorifies You\u2014glorifies Your name above all else.\u00a0 I pray for all the people who are listening that can say, \u2018Well, I can identify with that same woman, that same man.\u2019\u00a0 We just ask that they will hear the truth and the power that You really offer in a way that can transform their hearts and lives.\u00a0 We pray this in Jesus\u2019 name.\u00a0 Amen.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Thank you, Harry, for doing that.\u00a0 I want to thank you for being on the broadcast and for your ministry.\u00a0 I hope you will not wait another 12 years before you come back and join us again.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>All you have to do is invite me, and I\u2019d love to come to Arkansas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>We will take you up on that.\u00a0 Just before Bob tells folks how they can get a copy of your book, I want to pull my \u201csoapbox\u201d out here and just say one quick thing:\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are a follower of Christ and you know of a couple who are in a hopeless, shattered-glass situation, you need to be the one to get in there and risk it and give them the hope that there is redemption.\u00a0 I fear today within the Christian community that we have a lot of people who have disguised their faith\u2014they are not stepping up\u2014they are stepping away.\u00a0 The easiest thing to do is not get involved.\u00a0 It takes energy; it takes time.\u00a0 But a couple who are looking at the fragments need somebody from the outside to take their hands and his or hers and say, \u201cYou know what, there is hope.\u00a0 Could I pray for you, and could I help you?\u201d\u00a0 I just want to charge them to do that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You may want to call and get a copy of Harry\u2019s book and take it to them.\u00a0 You may want to invite them to come to a Weekend to Remember\u00ae marriage conference.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Don\u2019t just let that marriage dissolve.\u00a0 Don\u2019t just let the fragments lay there on the floor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>We can get you a copy of Harry\u2019s book.\u00a0 You go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and the information about the book is available there.\u00a0 Other resources that we have that are designed to help couples who have been through struggles with sexual sin in their marriage\u2014you\u2019ll find that information available there as well.\u00a0 Meg Wilson\u2019s helpful book, <em>Hope after Betrayal<\/em>, is there along with other resources we can recommend to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website:\u00a0 FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 You can order a copy of Harry\u2019s book <em>Undefiled<\/em> from us online, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 That is 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 There is also information about the Weekend to Remember marriage conference available on our website.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have already talked this week about the Covenant Eyes program that is an accountability program\u2014software program\u2014for those who are looking for a way to get accountability help on the issue of sexual purity.\u00a0 You will find a link for Covenant Eyes on our website\u2014FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we try to say this regularly; but I am not sure we can say it often enough.\u00a0 We are really grateful for listeners who tune in\u2014those of you who write to us or who go to the website and get more help, more information\u2014and are connecting with FamilyLife that way.\u00a0 We are also very grateful for those of you who help support the ministry with your financial contributions.\u00a0 We are listener-supported.\u00a0 We would not be on in this community if it were not for folks like you who in the past have either gone online at FamilyLifeToday.com to make a donation or called 1-800-FLTODAY and made a donation.\u00a0 We appreciate your financial partnership with us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, if you are able to help with a donation of any amount, we would like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you two copies of the brand-new <em>HomeBuilders<\/em> study guide called <em>Building Your Marriage to Last<\/em>.\u00a0 This is newly revised and updated.\u00a0 It has been freshened up.\u00a0 It is a great tool for a married couple to use for just the two of you, or it is something that you can use with a small group of couples.\u00a0 These two study guides are our way of saying, \u201cThank you,\u201d if you are able to help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> this month with a donation of any amount.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo online FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Make your donation online.\u00a0 When you come to the key code box on the donation form, type the word, \u201cBUILD,\u201d in the box; and we will know to send you the two study guides; or call 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 You can make your donation by phone.\u00a0 Just ask for the HomeBuilders guides to be sent to you.\u00a0 We are happy to get those out to you because we so much appreciate your partnership with us here in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 It is very meaningful.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow tomorrow, we want to encourage you to come back, especially if you have been dating.\u00a0 Maybe you are thinking about getting engaged--you are just not sure; or maybe you are engaged, and you are wondering, \u201cHow can I know if this is the one?\u201d\u00a0 We are going to hear some thoughts from Dennis Rainey on that subject tomorrow.\u00a0 I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today Keith Lynch and our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our host Dennis Rainey; I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["22.42M"],"filesize_raw":["23504077"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302014.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302014.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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do you restore a marriage damaged by sexual addiction?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-04-14.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That is the \u201cline in the sand\u201d when men, godly men in leadership within the church, come to that man and say, \u201cWhen are you going to be a man?\u00a0 When are you going to step up?\u00a0 When are you going to really love your wife as Christ loved the church?\u201d\u00a0 That is something that really needs to be lived in our masculinity as men.\u00a0 I think other men need to call men to accountability at that level.\u00a0 Now, I think that if a woman says to a man, \u201cWhen are you going to be a man?\u201d\u00a0 It can sound like a mother.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, April 14th.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will talk today about what spouses and friends can do and ought not try to do in helping someone be set free from bondage to sexual sin.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 You know, we have been trying to spend some time here this week (and I should just mention again that this is a subject that parents may want to determine if they would like their younger children to be in the room while we are having this conversation because we are) talking about what happens when sexual sin is present, in a marriage relationship particularly.\u00a0 I use the term of an earthquake or an explosion going off in a marriage when something like this is uncovered.\u00a0 I think for a lot of people, you look at this and you wonder, \u201cCan what has been damaged be repaired when there has been significant sexual sin taking place?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 Just you describing that, Bob, reminds me of a private post on my wall on Facebook.\u00a0 I am not able to respond to every post, every question that people ask me\u2014there are simply too many of them\u2014but let me introduce our guest here real quickly and then I want to read this post and have him respond to it.\u00a0 I want to share with our listeners what I said in response to this.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDr. Harry Schaumburg joins us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 He is the author of <em>Undefiled<\/em>, which is subtitled <em>Redemption from Sexual Sin, Restoration for Broken Relationships<\/em>.\u00a0 He is a counselor, an author, a speaker, lives in the Colorado Springs area, and he and his wife have been married for 41 years.\u00a0 Harry, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It is good to be here again because we are dealing with something that is very important to all of us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It really is.\u00a0 Let me read you this post on my Facebook wall.\u00a0 \u201cDennis, you don\u2019t know me but I want to reach out to you because you are an expert on relationships.\u00a0 I have hurt my wife\u2019s heart tremendously and now fear losing her.\u00a0 She found porn for the second time on our computer where I have been.\u00a0 She is very upset and is not speaking to me.\u00a0 She sent me a text today and she hates her life and wants me to sell the house.\u00a0 I am truly remorseful and am not ready to give up on my marriage.\u201d\u00a0 He goes on to tell about a ministry he has to other married couples in their local church.\u00a0 He said, \u201cHelp.\u00a0 Do you have any?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wrote him back.\u00a0 Here is what I wrote him back.\u00a0 Again, Facebook is by no means a thorough realm to address needs like this; but this is what I said to him, \u201cWithout knowing all the details, I can only give you general advice:\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber 1:\u00a0 Go to the elder board of your church and confess your history and present sin.\u00a0 Then repent and come clean.\u00a0 Secondly, place yourself under the authority of two or three elders who will be appointed by that elder board to help you begin to deal with your sin, pray with you and for you, and establish an accountability process for the next couple of years for you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThird, ask those men to meet with your wife and see if they are able to come up with a 6- or 12-month emergency game plan that might save your marriage.\u00a0 And lastly:\u00a0 Fully repent with your wife and keep repenting, asking God to give you courage and faith to show your wife real love.\u00a0 Then I want you to write me in six months and tell me how it is going.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow in this electronic age, I have to say there is a side of me that doesn\u2019t even want to attempt something on Facebook that is so tragic and has so many ramifications; but tell me where I have gone wrong here in what I have written or where I am spot on, and what would you say to this young man in order to deal with this sin he is facing in his life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Dennis, I think you are right on target.\u00a0 I think that is exactly what needs to be said to a man in that situation.\u00a0 I think if I was to emphasize something in addition, and I think you implied it very strongly, but I think we need to say, \u201cThere really is hope.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs Bob pointed out, this is like an earthquake.\u00a0 I call it a nuclear meltdown because the radiation fallout for years to come is enough to kill you\u2014in a marriage.\u00a0 In that kind of devastation, we really, really have to believe and know that there is a God.\u00a0 That is why we wrote this book <em>Undefiled<\/em>.\u00a0 It has taken 18 years of working with hundreds and hundreds of people, couples just like the one you are communicating with, and saying, \u201cGod can really change the heart.\u00a0 God can change the behavior\u2014it can heal the marriage.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really believe because we have seen it for 18 years.\u00a0 I believe that you can even have a more godly marriage and a stronger marriage in this kind of devastation, even though that person feels absolutely hopeless right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Harry, there are a lot of areas in a marriage where trust can be violated.\u00a0 You can violate trust around financial areas, around raising the kids, around just your word\u2014where you said you were going to be and you weren\u2019t there.\u00a0 When trust is violated in the area of our sexual relationship, whether it is through pornography or adultery, there is something that is more central, more core, deeper about that, than any other trust violation; isn\u2019t there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, I refer to it as trust being shattered.\u00a0 If you take a glass and slam it down on the concrete, you shatter it.\u00a0 How in the world do you put that glass back together again?\u00a0 That is what we are talking about.\u00a0 How do you develop trust again?\u00a0 I think if you work directly at trusting, you are not on target.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me explain what I mean by that.\u00a0 You do all the things you are supposed to do, you keep yourself accountable, and you put Covenant Eyes on your computer.\u00a0 You know, you get people asking you hard questions and you keep reporting that you are doing well.\u00a0 That can be a performance; that can be a behavioral level.\u00a0 How do you trust that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s the catch:\u00a0 If for 20 years a woman has not known about the secret sexual sin, the first question of mistrust is, \u201cHow do I know if he goes back to doing it again?\u201d\u00a0 Here is the issue of trust, then.\u00a0 Can we trust what God has done in a person?\u00a0 What we teach in our counseling program is, \u201cDon\u2019t trust in:\u00a0\u00a0 a blind kind of way, hopeful in putting your best face forward, let\u2019s believe that something can be better\u2014a positive kind of attitude.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Or maybe in an enabling way where you actually believe too much in the other person, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Well, yes.\u00a0 Why shouldn\u2019t we say, \u201cHey, you know, since you lied to me for 20 years, how can I trust you again?\u201d\u00a0 There is validity to that statement, but not with resentment and bitterness.\u00a0 So if we are going to go forward in a relationship, I think there has to be real concern about the mistrust leading to suspicion, resentment, and bitterness.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn the part of building the relationship again, it is a simple concept that we can miss the truth and the power of God in sexual redemption.\u00a0 That is, we need to trust what God has done in this person.\u00a0 It goes back to what we said before about a person being completely different.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf a man looks at his wife and says, \u201cI am not looking at pornography;\u201d \u201cI have discontinued the affair.\u201d\u00a0 A man can look right into his wife\u2019s eyes and lie.\u00a0 They have been doing it for 20 years.\u00a0 They can continue to do it.\u00a0 This wife goes, \u201cWell, how can I trust?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIs he becoming a different man?\u2014meaning that the whole self-centeredness of his nature, his approach to relationship with her, even his approach to his children, to material things, to his spiritual life.\u00a0 Can we see something completely different about this person?\u00a0 Meaning it is the work of God, and I can trust that\u2014not just a behavioral management.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Let\u2019s say a wife became aware six months ago that her husband was involved in some kind of sexual sin; he was looking at pornography on the internet or he had been involved in an affair.\u00a0 The wife hears her husband.\u00a0 He says, \u201cI am sorry.\u00a0 I want to rebuild trust.\u00a0 I am going to change.\u00a0 I\u2019ll get some accountability.\u00a0 I\u2019ll follow Dennis\u2019 advice.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I hear you saying is, \u201cWhat the wife really needs to be looking for is, \u2018Is this man becoming a different person?\u2019\u2014not just, \u2018Am I not seeing the behavior, but am I seeing a manifestation of growth in godliness in every aspect of his life?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think what Bob wants to ask on behalf of that wife who has been betrayed here, not once but twice now, at least in this Facebook posting--he wants to help a wife know, \u201cWhat does a repenting husband look like?\u201d\u00a0 Unpack that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think a repenting husband is a husband who in all the different areas she is so very, very familiar with, this man is not moving in a direction to take care of himself, but he is learning to take care of her.\u00a0 He is learning to cherish her.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is not a technique that Dennis Rainey or Bob Lepine or Harry Schaumburg is teaching this man.\u00a0 This is a transformation on the inside, in his own heart, where he is expressing, if you will, the fruit of the Spirit.\u00a0 He is expressing the fruit of repentance so that she goes, \u201cYou know there is something different about this guy.\u201d\u00a0 On the outside\u2014people looking in who are not in this marriage\u2014they wouldn\u2019t even see the differences because the wife is intimately aware of where this man lives for himself.\u00a0 She is seeing these subtle shifts and changes in his attitude.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>And to the wife who is seeing the opposite?\u00a0 I mean, he has mouthed repentance; he said the words\u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It is a false repentance.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>How is she to respond to that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think we are back to the wife who has really got to say, \u201cWhat does God call me to do in terms of being a godly wife who can present and offer something in my own being and in my own femininity and who I am as a godly woman that is more appealing to the inherent nature of a man created in the image of God?\u201d\u00a0 She can say, \u201cI can be that gentle, quiet woman\u2014that 1 Peter 3 woman where he can see something in me that he is drawn to.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think when a woman is dealing with a man who has a hard heart and is resisting the truth, I think that we draw one another, not just to ourselves, but we draw one another to Christ.\u00a0 What can she be that is appealing to him, to invite him, and to pull him toward the truth?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Would you ever counsel a woman to maybe separate for a while until he can get his act together and show some demonstration that he is serious about dealing with this issue?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I\u2019ll add a little different flavor to what Bob said.\u00a0 Let\u2019s go back to my advice to this gentleman on Facebook.\u00a0 Maybe, \u201cGo to the elder board of your church because he is going to church and acts like he is living as a Christian and has false piety.\u201d\u00a0 Would you advise a woman at that point to call a couple of the elders and engage them in her marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think if you have a man who is resisting help\u2014call it a man who wants to live in his sexual sin and is blatantly telling his wife, \u201cLook, you know, the people at church might not think this is a good thing; but, you know, this is not what you are making it out to be.\u00a0 I don\u2019t really have a problem.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think she can go to her elders, godly men who would be willing to confront him as a man and literally sit him down and say, \u201cHey, here is the information; here is the evidence.\u201d\u00a0 Help him see the problem by challenging him and confronting him.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>So back to Bob\u2019s question.\u00a0 There really is a time for a woman to \u201cdraw a line in the sand\u201d and call the man to step up?\u00a0 I am not talking about divorce, now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Right.\u00a0 The line in the sand is saying, \u201cWhen are you going to be a man?\u201d\u00a0 Now, I think if a woman says to a man, \u201cWhen are you going to be a man?\u201d, it can sound like a mother; but when men, godly men in leadership within the church, come to that man and say, \u201cWhen are you going to be a man?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have often said that to people in counseling, \u201cWhen are you going to be a man?\u00a0 When are you going to step up?\u00a0 When are you going to really love your wife as Christ loved the church?\u00a0 That is not a little phrase in the Bible that we can ignored.\u00a0 That is something that really needs to be lived in our masculinity as men.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think other men need to call men to accountability at that level.\u00a0 Wives need to have a place where they can go in terms of leadership\u2014elders in the church and say, \u201cHey, I need help here.\u00a0 My husband is doing this, and he won\u2019t stop.\u201d\u00a0 That is the line in the sand.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn the question of separation, I take a very, very narrow view.\u00a0 I would say, \u201cYou separate when there is physical abuse.\u201d\u00a0 Until then, \u201cHave him sleep in the guest room; have him sleep in the basement; maybe the garage if it is a warm climate.\u201d\u00a0 To kick him out of the house, I think, there are a lot of problems with that that we just have failed to really identify.\u00a0 One is that the guy becomes so full of his self-pity that he goes out and does something worse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It justifies worse behavior.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Absolutely.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You talked about somebody who had been unfaithful with more than 100 women.\u00a0 Can there be restoration for that kind of shattered glass?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That man and his wife have been since then married over 15 years, continuing on and growing in the relationship, growing spiritually.\u00a0 So, yes, there can be a real healing of that marriage and, I think, even a stronger marriage.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what I hear in terms of stronger marriage, Bob.\u00a0 You hear the wife saying, \u201cMy husband is a different man,\u201d when you ask, \u201cHow are you doing?\u201d\u00a0 I think that reflects a deeper change.\u00a0 Then I have heard wives also say, \u201cI would never change the past if it meant I would lose what I now have.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo you take that nightmare of discovering a sexual sin, which at the time is absolutely devastating.\u00a0 In two or three years down the road, that same woman who wept in my counseling office over the horror of what her husband has done, is saying to me and looking me in the eye, \u201cHarry, I would never change what happened three years ago if it meant I would now lose what I have with the Lord and what I have with my husband.\u201d\u00a0 That is what we are talking about in terms of real hope and real change.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>The gains that were realized through the loss and the betrayal were worth it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That is pretty powerful.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That is powerful.\u00a0 The gospel is powerful.\u00a0 Isn\u2019t that a novel idea?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I keep looking at the shattered glass on the floor.\u00a0 Anybody who has ever seen a glass drop on a concrete floor knows it doesn\u2019t break into pieces but into slivers.\u00a0 That is about as hopeless a picture as I can imagine.\u00a0 Yet, what you are saying is, \u201cBecause Christ died on the cross for our selfishness, our sins, was buried on the third day, rose again, and because He defeated death, because He is seated at the right hand of God, the Father, He can raise a dead marriage.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>He can put the shattered pieces back together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>He can get all those fragments and put something together, what you are saying, is far more magnificent than what was dropped on the floor in the first place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>And maybe would never have happened if it hadn\u2019t been dropped on the floor in the first place because they would have gone on living happily ever after, believing that everything was okay, and living more like roommates\u2014than in a deeper real intimacy in their marriage\u2014spiritually shallow\u2014you know attending church regularly but not having the real power of God demonstrated in their own lives.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I don\u2019t do this often but I feel like we need to have a brief prayer right here.\u00a0 What I\u2019d like to ask you to do, Harry, is pray for that couple.\u00a0 It may be the man\u2019s behavior that resulted in the glass; it may be his wife.\u00a0 Would you pray for them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Sure.\u00a0 I\u2019d be glad to do that.\u00a0 \u201cFather, this couple that Dennis has referred to is unfortunately just another part of the reality that exists around all of us if we would just open up our eyes.\u00a0 We have knowledge and information about this one couple.\u00a0 We know that you have a greater knowledge, and a greater understanding, and a greater compassion than our own hearts feel.\u00a0 We know that You can work.\u00a0 We pray that their hearts and their minds will be turned toward You, toward the truth of the gospel, the power and the finished work of the cross, and that you will build a relationship that truly glorifies You\u2014glorifies Your name above all else.\u00a0 I pray for all the people who are listening that can say, \u2018Well, I can identify with that same woman, that same man.\u2019\u00a0 We just ask that they will hear the truth and the power that You really offer in a way that can transform their hearts and lives.\u00a0 We pray this in Jesus\u2019 name.\u00a0 Amen.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Thank you, Harry, for doing that.\u00a0 I want to thank you for being on the broadcast and for your ministry.\u00a0 I hope you will not wait another 12 years before you come back and join us again.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>All you have to do is invite me, and I\u2019d love to come to Arkansas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>We will take you up on that.\u00a0 Just before Bob tells folks how they can get a copy of your book, I want to pull my \u201csoapbox\u201d out here and just say one quick thing:\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are a follower of Christ and you know of a couple who are in a hopeless, shattered-glass situation, you need to be the one to get in there and risk it and give them the hope that there is redemption.\u00a0 I fear today within the Christian community that we have a lot of people who have disguised their faith\u2014they are not stepping up\u2014they are stepping away.\u00a0 The easiest thing to do is not get involved.\u00a0 It takes energy; it takes time.\u00a0 But a couple who are looking at the fragments need somebody from the outside to take their hands and his or hers and say, \u201cYou know what, there is hope.\u00a0 Could I pray for you, and could I help you?\u201d\u00a0 I just want to charge them to do that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You may want to call and get a copy of Harry\u2019s book and take it to them.\u00a0 You may want to invite them to come to a Weekend to Remember\u00ae marriage conference.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Don\u2019t just let that marriage dissolve.\u00a0 Don\u2019t just let the fragments lay there on the floor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>We can get you a copy of Harry\u2019s book.\u00a0 You go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and the information about the book is available there.\u00a0 Other resources that we have that are designed to help couples who have been through struggles with sexual sin in their marriage\u2014you\u2019ll find that information available there as well.\u00a0 Meg Wilson\u2019s helpful book, <em>Hope after Betrayal<\/em>, is there along with other resources we can recommend to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website:\u00a0 FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 You can order a copy of Harry\u2019s book <em>Undefiled<\/em> from us online, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\u00a0 That is 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 There is also information about the Weekend to Remember marriage conference available on our website.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have already talked this week about the Covenant Eyes program that is an accountability program\u2014software program\u2014for those who are looking for a way to get accountability help on the issue of sexual purity.\u00a0 You will find a link for Covenant Eyes on our website\u2014FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we try to say this regularly; but I am not sure we can say it often enough.\u00a0 We are really grateful for listeners who tune in\u2014those of you who write to us or who go to the website and get more help, more information\u2014and are connecting with FamilyLife that way.\u00a0 We are also very grateful for those of you who help support the ministry with your financial contributions.\u00a0 We are listener-supported.\u00a0 We would not be on in this community if it were not for folks like you who in the past have either gone online at FamilyLifeToday.com to make a donation or called 1-800-FLTODAY and made a donation.\u00a0 We appreciate your financial partnership with us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, if you are able to help with a donation of any amount, we would like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you two copies of the brand-new <em>HomeBuilders<\/em> study guide called <em>Building Your Marriage to Last<\/em>.\u00a0 This is newly revised and updated.\u00a0 It has been freshened up.\u00a0 It is a great tool for a married couple to use for just the two of you, or it is something that you can use with a small group of couples.\u00a0 These two study guides are our way of saying, \u201cThank you,\u201d if you are able to help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> this month with a donation of any amount.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo online FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Make your donation online.\u00a0 When you come to the key code box on the donation form, type the word, \u201cBUILD,\u201d in the box; and we will know to send you the two study guides; or call 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 You can make your donation by phone.\u00a0 Just ask for the HomeBuilders guides to be sent to you.\u00a0 We are happy to get those out to you because we so much appreciate your partnership with us here in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 It is very meaningful.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow tomorrow, we want to encourage you to come back, especially if you have been dating.\u00a0 Maybe you are thinking about getting engaged--you are just not sure; or maybe you are engaged, and you are wondering, \u201cHow can I know if this is the one?\u201d\u00a0 We are going to hear some thoughts from Dennis Rainey on that subject tomorrow.\u00a0 I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today Keith Lynch and our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our host Dennis Rainey; I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/302014","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=302014"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=302014"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=302014"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=302014"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=302014"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=302014"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=302014"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}