{"id":302012,"date":"2010-04-12T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2010-04-12T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/who-will-be-your-god\/"},"modified":"2010-04-12T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2010-04-12T15:00:00","slug":"who-will-be-your-god","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/who-will-be-your-god\/","title":{"rendered":"Who Will Be Your God?"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Is sexual sin destroying your marriage?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-04-12.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"23.74M","filesize_raw":"24892687","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2840,2903],"tags":[2991,2487,2983,4637],"podcast_series":[7720],"cwp_profile":[8961],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-302012","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-addiction","category-infidelity","tag-sex","tag-sexual-addiction","tag-sexual-desire","tag-sexual-sin","podcast_series-undefiled","cwp_profile-dr-harry-schaumburg","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/302012\/who-will-be-your-god","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/302012\/who-will-be-your-god","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"KxX0BKmhjK\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/who-will-be-your-god\/\">Who Will Be Your God?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/who-will-be-your-god\/embed\/#?secret=KxX0BKmhjK\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Who Will Be Your God?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"KxX0BKmhjK\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-04-12.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-04-12.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 We are talking about a problem worse than addiction.\u00a0 We are talking about bondage, to use a scriptural word, and the only thing that can break that bondage is God.\u00a0 When we lose sight of the power of God to transform who we are as spiritual beings, as sexual beings we will lose everything.\u00a0 I think this is a fight for truth.\u00a0 This is a fight for the importance of the gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, April, 12<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I am Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will talk today about what is necessary for the bondage of sexual compulsion to be broken in a person\u2019s life.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 There are some issues that can seep into a marriage relationship that over time cause erosion in that relationship.\u00a0 There are other issues that rather than eroding a relationship, are like an explosion going off in a relationship.\u00a0 And the subject we are going to be addressing today is one of those subjects that our listeners may want to be alert to.\u00a0 They may not want to have younger listeners tuned in because we are going to be talking about what happens when sexual sin becomes part of a marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes Bob!\u00a0 I wish we didn\u2019t have to do broadcasts like this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Yes!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Quite honestly, over the years you and I have probably done... I don\u2019t know.... 10 -15 different series around the sexual dimension of who we are and how it trips us up and how it can enslave us.\u00a0\u00a0 In fact, it was back in 1998 that we did a series with our guest today, Dr. Harry Schaumburg, and we have aired that broadcast a number of times on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs you have mentioned before we came into the studio here today; you mentioned, \u201cUnfortunately the response to that broadcast is growing.\u201d\u00a0 I want to just first of all to welcome Harry back to the broadcast.\u00a0 Harry thanks for joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Thanks, Dennis.\u00a0 It is good to be here and to see you guys again.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 I so appreciate you and your work.\u00a0 Of course, you speak at a number of conferences around the country and written a number of books.\u00a0 One of the books we interviewed you on back in 1998 was, <em>False Intimacy.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>Understanding the Struggle of Sexual Addiction<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 You havewritten a second book now called, <em>Undefiled \u2013 Redemption from Sexual Sin.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>Restoration for Broken Relationships<\/em>.\u00a0\u00a0 I think we have even over the years sent folks to your Stone Gate Resources Counseling Center that you have there in Colorado Springs, Colorado and we so appreciate your ministry of counseling.\u00a0 You have been dealing in this area of sexual addictions for 19 years, right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Full time for 19 years, but I started back 30 years ago, so it has been pretty much the focus of my entire professional counseling.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 When we come to this subject of sexual addiction especially in this era where in recent months there has been the story of Tiger Woods which he hasn\u2019t been diagnosed as being a sexual addict.\u00a0 We certainly find a lot of evidence today, Harry, in the culture of people who are sexually addicted and you gave some statistics in your book that really were alarming.\u00a0 They alarmed me especially around how young people at earlier and earlier ages are getting exposed to pornography over the internet.\u00a0 Is this a major cause of creating sexual addicts today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think it is!\u00a0 If you go back to the old days before the internet all the stories that I ever heard were the young man, average age of 11, found pornography stashed in his father\u2019s house; meaning that his father had the magazines and brought them into the house.\u00a0\u00a0 Well, it is kind of like the stone age of today.\u00a0 You look at the internet and what you have is access from cell phone to computer, desktop, laptop anywhere, anytime, anyplace, wireless internet connection, and so children are really, really getting exposed.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we are going to see the average age, 11, drop dramatically.\u00a0 One statistic that I mentioned in the book is that 90% of 8\u201316 year olds have already viewed pornography on the internet.\u00a0 That accidental exposure, which it is a pop up, is like the accidental exposure discovering it in your father\u2019s basement.\u00a0 But now you have a whole different technology and access that I don\u2019t think that we get our mind wrapped around it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Harry, let me ask you, when we start talking\u00a0 about people; Dennis talked about somebody being diagnosed as a sexual addict, there is something inside of me that almost recoils at the use of the term addiction in this area.\u00a0 I know when you wrote <em>False Intimacy<\/em> the subtitle was about dealing with sexual addiction.\u00a0 Why does it feel wrong to me to refer to somebody as a sexual addict?\u00a0 Is it just a semantic issue that I am wrestling with here, do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 I don\u2019t think it is a semantic thing at all; Bob.\u00a0 I think when we talk about addictions, you think of the heroin addict or the alcoholic, and it is a whole different picture.\u00a0 We are talking about sex and sex I think first off is something very sacred that God has created and gives to a husband and wife in marriage and to pretty intimate and exclusive in marriage.\u00a0 When you bring it down to sex addict it sounds like you are kind of going into the gutter with something very precious that is sexuality.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the other thing is I don\u2019t really see it as addiction as you mentioned.\u00a0 My first book uses the term, but in the second book, <em>Undefiled<\/em>, I don\u2019t use the term at all.\u00a0 It is all sexual sin.\u00a0 I think we really have to emphasize that this is a sin more than anything else and I think with anyone who knows the word of God and believes the word of God, I think the word sin resonates much better than addiction or disease.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 It can become a besetting sin, a compulsive behavior, but there is something about addiction that makes me want to pull back and go, \u201cNo, it is not the same as a guy who has got to get his fix of heroin every day, is it?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 I don\u2019t think it is!\u00a0 I think we have that addiction to a chemical; someone can be addicted to prescription medications.\u00a0 We all have a sex desire and even with all the new information about being addicted to the sexual desire, the brain chemical.\u00a0 It is very normal to want to have sexual intimacy even as an adolescent growing up and of course in marriage it is very important to maintain that sexual interest.\u00a0 So, how do you make that into an addiction?\u00a0\u00a0 Heroin or whiskey is not something that you have to have.\u00a0 This [sexual intimacy] is a normal part of God\u2019s wonderful gift in creation to us in marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 I think a part of what Bob is talking about here is, Harry, is that we want people to be responsible for their behavior and not blame it on some predisposition, but I have to clarify this because of what I hear you saying.\u00a0 Do you want to exclude this then from being an addiction?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think I have come to that point in the 18 years that have gone by since <em>False Intimacy<\/em> came out that I think I just really shunned the word addiction and all the concept of disease, the concept of.....\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Predisposition?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Family of origin is the main reason or genetic causes.....\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Or being exposed as an 8 year old like we were talking about?\u00a0 An 11 year old?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Absolutely!\u00a0 We are talking about responsible people who are making a choice against God\u2019s will.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Over and over and over and over again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Over and over again.\u00a0 Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Is that person somehow, and again, I am using the word addicted, but they are drawn by endorphins being released in the brain or there is something that they are feeding off of that is not just looking at a picture, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 I think they are feeding off of their own selfish nature.\u00a0 And rather than feeding off the endorphins they are feeding off the sinful nature.\u00a0 If we lose sight of that I think we really lose sight of the need of the cross and of what I call sexual redemption in this book.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What I hear you saying here, and I think this is really important for our listeners in this sex saturated culture where addiction has been thrown around.\u00a0 I can almost feel people being a little angry, that you are taking away their addiction; that they can no longer call this an addiction.\u00a0 What I hear you calling people to do is you are calling men and women to assume responsibility for their choices, and not be enslaved to sin.\u00a0 But step up and admit and repent that they have made wrong choices and turn from that sin and turn away from it and cry out to God and ask Him, Help me!\u00a0 Help me in my weakness!\u00a0 Help me be a real man, a real woman, surrendered to You and your Holy Spirit to be a sanctified vessel and have sex be something that is sacred as God designed it.\u00a0 Is that correct?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 That is exactly correct.\u00a0 I think that what we don\u2019t want to do in our own sinful natures is to be dependent, and in this case completely dependent upon God.\u00a0 I think when we can work steps and when we can go through our own recovery and manage our own counseling and when we can read the self help books that we want, we begin to think that we are in charge.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are talking about a problem worse than addiction.\u00a0 We are talking about bondage to use a scriptural word and the only thing that can break that bondage is God.\u00a0 When we lose sight of the power of God to transform who we are as spiritual beings and as sexual beings we will lose everything.\u00a0 I think this is a fight for truth; this is a fight for the importance of the gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I also hear you saying it is a fight against something that wants to control your life if you let it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Exactly!\u00a0\u00a0 It is out there controlling if I let it, but I have a will.\u00a0 I am an incredible being created with an ability to choose and we can\u2019t lose sight of that.\u00a0 This is not something being forced upon me.\u00a0 This is a choice away from God and His truth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Okay!\u00a0 But you have talked to a lot of guys who have said I have come to the point where I say, \u201cI detest this.\u00a0 I despise it.\u00a0 I want to turn away from this and they...\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 ....I keep doing it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Yes!\u00a0 There are things I hate I end up doing is what they say.\u00a0 So, they say, I understand I have got a will, but it doesn\u2019t\u00a0 feel like I\u2019ve got a will because I just find myself dragged back into this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Well, if you get into this deep enough in scripture, which is of course the right way to go, is when you look at Romans chapter 1, you can make an argument that God gives us over. What does He give us over to?\u00a0 Our own desires!\u00a0 Why does He give us over to our own desires to be controlled by those desires?\u00a0 Which of course were originally legitimate desires. I think He gives us over in the context of that passage because we do not see God as God!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the guy who is saying, \u201cI don\u2019t have a will, I don\u2019t have an ability to break free.\u201d\u00a0 He is absolutely correct, but, we have to ask the question, why?\u00a0 He has made a choice to go against God and that is where you begin to lose control of your own will, your own desires so that feeling that I am out of control and I can\u2019t stop this is not delusional.\u00a0 It is real but what are the real theological, biblical explanations for losing that power to just say I am not going to do this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know you can put two guys in cubicles with 2 computers and one guy is not going to be able to resist pointing and clicking and the other person can resist.\u00a0 What is really going on inside of those two men?\u00a0\u00a0 I think that is what we are talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 What is going on inside the guy that is pointing and clicking \u2013 what is going on inside of him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think he sees a moment to immediately gratify himself because ultimately all of his life is bent more towards living for himself and who he is.\u00a0 You know I could tell stories upon stories of people I have counseled and they all come because they are struggling with pornography and some form of adultery.\u00a0 When you really take a look at what is going on in their ministry or what is going on in their career, it is all about \u2013 \u2018ME\u2019.\u00a0\u00a0 It is me, Me, ME, ME!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so what I have been saying for 18 years is I can\u2019t help you control that behavior, but I can tell you can find an answer to deal with this selfishness, the sense that this is all about me and I want to get what I want.\u00a0 But, here is the challenge; if you really go in this direction, you are going to have to change your entire lifestyle, not just a behavior.\u00a0 You are going to have to live for an entirely different purpose.\u00a0 In terms of your will the purpose of God, not for Harry Schaumburg\u2019s will or not for Bob Lepine\u2019s.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I ultimately hear you calling men and women who struggle with this away from idolatry of self and of sex and of pleasure, and of self gratification to the One true God to worship Him and to yield to Him.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Why has that become so novel?\u00a0 I mean that is the implication of what we are saying because I think we have accepted the message of a therapeutic culture that says, \u2018here\u2019s the explanation in my family of origin or whatever it is, rather than this is inside of me.\u2019\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you go to Colossians 3:5, Paul clearly says, \u201cPut to death therefore, what is earthly in you.\u201d\u00a0 And it is \u2018in you.\u2019\u00a0 And the next phrase, \u201csexual immorality,\u201d.....\u00a0 And it ends with, \u201ccovetousness,\u201d which is idolatry.\u00a0 What we are really dealing with; you are exactly right, Dennis, it is the worship of self.\u00a0 We live in a culture of \u2018Me\u2019 and we have turned this into a lifestyle!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I embrace what you are saying because of the hope it creates.\u00a0 When I am called an addict of something, there is a sense in which; and it is back to what I think Bob was referring to earlier, he doesn\u2019t like that term, because there is a feeling of, \u201cOh that poor person!\u00a0 He is just an addict!\u00a0 He is just enslaved to it!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 He can\u2019t help himself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes!\u00a0\u00a0 And you know what?\u00a0 There is not much hope in that!\u00a0\u00a0 How does he break free in that?\u00a0 And so, one of my questions I had down to ask you is, what is at the root of sexual addiction?\u00a0 You are saying, ultimately, \u201cwho will be your God!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly!\u00a0\u00a0 And if God is not God, as we go back to Romans, chapter 1 again, than my desires will control me.\u00a0 I will be beyond able to do what I want to do \u2013 the way I want to do it; and in particularly when it comes to my body.\u00a0 I will do with my body what I want to do with it and of course the expression of that is going to be sexual immorality.\u00a0 It is all about God being God!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 So, back to Bob\u2019s question he asked a bit earlier, when he said, \u201cI am a guy who just keeps slipping off into this and my wife has caught me and she doesn\u2019t trust me and it is causing an atomic explosion in the marriage relationship.\u00a0 It is threatening the very fiber of their vows; the lack of faithfulness at this point.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 You would say to that man, \u201cRepent!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Repent and you will find radical change on the inside that will be expressed on the outside.\u00a0 What we talk about in <em>Undefiled<\/em> then is a man becomes a different man, a woman becomes a different woman, and there must be what we would call, \u2018the fruit of repentance.\u2019\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe must live in a sexually and a spiritually different way.\u00a0 We have to be a different man, a different woman, not just stopping the pornography.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Okay, but hang on, there are some guys who just said, \u201cI just heard you say, \u2018Repent,\u2019 and I have tried that before and that doesn\u2019t work.\u00a0 I have said I am not going to do this anymore.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want to do it and I still wind up doing it.\u00a0 So, repenting isn\u2019t working for me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 I think there is true repentance and false repentance.\u00a0 In false repentance, I think again, the motive is:\u00a0 I have got to save my marriage. The motive is I have got to save my career.\u00a0 \u201cHarry, help me I have got to get this right.\u201d\u00a0 Of the hundreds and hundreds of people who have come through our counseling program, everyone comes because they want to get their life straightened out.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy message continually is that this doesn\u2019t solve the problem!\u00a0 I am not here to get your life straightened out! I am not here to save your marriage!\u00a0\u00a0 In essence, I am here for a radical change, where in which you need to become a different man and a different woman.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, repentance is something; some people are not even asking for ... when they say, \u201cGod I repent.\u201d\u00a0 What are they doing?\u00a0 They are saying, \u201cI feel self-disgust, I don\u2019t like doing this, my wife hates it, and if I don\u2019t get control of it I am going to lose my marriage,\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 And I say, \u201cThat is not enough for God to act!\u00a0 God acts when we completely come to Him with nothing and that He can do everything to transform this.\u201d\u00a0 That is what I believe!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Okay!\u00a0 I have got one last question I have to ask you because there has to be a woman, right now, who is listening who is saying, \u201cHey Harry, I am married to a man who doesn\u2019t care about repenting.\u00a0 He doesn\u2019t see any sin, any wrong doing, and this guy is just off in it.\u00a0 What in the world do I do as his wife?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Those women call our office all the time!\u00a0\u00a0 Those are tough situations.\u00a0 You would like a guy to at least be motivated to save his marriage!\u00a0 But, when there is no motivation and when he doesn\u2019t want to break off the affair or when he doesn\u2019t want to stop the sexual sin; that is a real challenge. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think often we take the easy way out and the counselor or the pastor says, \u201cYou have got grounds for divorce.\u00a0 He has been unfaithful.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 We take a much narrower view and approach and that is, okay, \u201cWhat does God want you to do to really be in a position to draw your husband towards something that is more of a reality than the false intimacy, the illusion that he is getting from the prostitute, the pornography, and the affair?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there is gentleness and a quietness; that is what I am going to encourage, is the woman to come to her husband and say, \u201cYou know I can give you more than you could ever find in the arms of that other woman.\u201d\u00a0 That could be said seductively, but I think it needs to be said in a godly way.\u00a0 What I mean by that is at the end of life, when we get old, who is going to feed you; that young 20 year old?\u00a0 No!\u00a0 I am going to be here and if I have to nurse you as an old man and as an old woman, I will be here and we can grow old together.\u00a0 There is something about sexuality and there is something about intimacy that we need to see that is much deeper than self-gratification; in whatever form it is expressed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think whether it be to the wife who is in a tough situation like you just described, Harry, or to the man who is caught in this sin and genuinely wants to get out and repent, the call is to the cross of Jesus Christ.\u00a0 Paul wrote to Timothy, \u201cFlee youthful passions and pursue righteousness,\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 Where are you going to find righteousness?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is found in the person of Jesus Christ!\u00a0 He is the one you pursue when you find faith, love, and peace and you pursue Him while being surrounded by others who are doing the same thing.\u00a0 Paul finishes this passage to Timothy, he says, \u201cSo flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is not an easy route!\u00a0 It demands courage, it demands faith, perseverance, and when you slip and fall you get back up!\u00a0 But it is the route of rebuilding trust.\u00a0 It is the route of finding life, hope and as you write in your book, it is the way you find redemption and healing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 I have been sitting here thinking about Matthew 13 where Jesus tells the parable of the pearl of great price.\u00a0 And the man who finds that pearl, what does he sell to get it?\u00a0 He sells everything and goes back and buys the pearl.\u00a0 The point is we need to see the gospel.\u00a0 We need to see Jesus and our redemption as so valuable that it dislodges from our hands the idols that we hang on to, even the idol of sexual sin that we have been talking about here today.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that is what is at the heart of how you address this issue in the book, <em>Undefiled<\/em>, which we have in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 It is a book that offers redemption from sexual sin and restoration for broken relationships.\u00a0 It is by our guest Dr. Harry Schaumburg. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo online at FamilyLifeToday.com and get more information on how you can get a copy of the book.\u00a0 Again, it is called <em>Undefiled<\/em>.\u00a0 The website, FamilyLifeToday.com or you can call us toll-free at 1-800-FL-TODAY if you would like; 1-800-358-6329 and we will make arrangements to get a copy of Harry\u2019s book sent to you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me encourage listeners to make sure you are being proactive in guarding and protecting your marriage.\u00a0 As you were reading Paul\u2019s advice to Timothy he says, flee this and instead pursue this.\u00a0 I would say to listeners we need to be fleeing the cultural messages about our marriage and we need to be pursuing what the Bible says about our marriage.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor years we have been encouraging couples to go through a <em>HomeBuilders<\/em> study.\u00a0 This is something you can do with other couples or if you just want to do it with the two of you, get at couple of <em>HomeBuilders<\/em> study guides and go through the material and ask each other the questions and just use it as part of your date night activities that build into and strengthen your marriage relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month if you are able to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> of any amount we would love to send you two copies of the newly revised <em>HomeBuilders<\/em> study guide called, <em>Building Your Marriage to Last<\/em>.\u00a0 It is our gift to you when you support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> again, with a donation of any amount and you can do that either online at FamilyLifeToday.com and if you on there to make a donation and you want the <em>HomeBuilders<\/em> guides, type the word \u201cBUILD\u201d in to the key code box and we will know to send these study guides out to you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr call 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329 and make your donation over the phone and just say I\u2019d like those study guides.\u00a0 We are happy to send them out to you and again, we appreciate your partnership with us.\u00a0 We are listener supported so your donations are what is keeping us this station and on our network of stations all across the country.\u00a0 We really do appreciate you!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we are going to talk to Dr. Harry Schaumburg about what we can do as parents to raise children who understand and embrace sexual purity; not just abstinence, but what you refer to in your book as sexual maturity.\u00a0 I hope our listeners can be back with us for that conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our host Dennis Rainey, I am Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for Today.\u00a0 Hope for Tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.74M"],"filesize_raw":["24892687"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-302012.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-302012.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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sexual sin destroying your marriage?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2010-04-12.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 We are talking about a problem worse than addiction.\u00a0 We are talking about bondage, to use a scriptural word, and the only thing that can break that bondage is God.\u00a0 When we lose sight of the power of God to transform who we are as spiritual beings, as sexual beings we will lose everything.\u00a0 I think this is a fight for truth.\u00a0 This is a fight for the importance of the gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0\u00a0 This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, April, 12<sup>th<\/sup>.\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I am Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will talk today about what is necessary for the bondage of sexual compulsion to be broken in a person\u2019s life.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 Thanks for joining us.\u00a0 There are some issues that can seep into a marriage relationship that over time cause erosion in that relationship.\u00a0 There are other issues that rather than eroding a relationship, are like an explosion going off in a relationship.\u00a0 And the subject we are going to be addressing today is one of those subjects that our listeners may want to be alert to.\u00a0 They may not want to have younger listeners tuned in because we are going to be talking about what happens when sexual sin becomes part of a marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes Bob!\u00a0 I wish we didn\u2019t have to do broadcasts like this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Yes!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Quite honestly, over the years you and I have probably done... I don\u2019t know.... 10 -15 different series around the sexual dimension of who we are and how it trips us up and how it can enslave us.\u00a0\u00a0 In fact, it was back in 1998 that we did a series with our guest today, Dr. Harry Schaumburg, and we have aired that broadcast a number of times on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs you have mentioned before we came into the studio here today; you mentioned, \u201cUnfortunately the response to that broadcast is growing.\u201d\u00a0 I want to just first of all to welcome Harry back to the broadcast.\u00a0 Harry thanks for joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Thanks, Dennis.\u00a0 It is good to be here and to see you guys again.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 I so appreciate you and your work.\u00a0 Of course, you speak at a number of conferences around the country and written a number of books.\u00a0 One of the books we interviewed you on back in 1998 was, <em>False Intimacy.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>Understanding the Struggle of Sexual Addiction<\/em>.\u201d\u00a0 You havewritten a second book now called, <em>Undefiled \u2013 Redemption from Sexual Sin.<\/em><em>\u00a0 <\/em><em>Restoration for Broken Relationships<\/em>.\u00a0\u00a0 I think we have even over the years sent folks to your Stone Gate Resources Counseling Center that you have there in Colorado Springs, Colorado and we so appreciate your ministry of counseling.\u00a0 You have been dealing in this area of sexual addictions for 19 years, right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Full time for 19 years, but I started back 30 years ago, so it has been pretty much the focus of my entire professional counseling.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 When we come to this subject of sexual addiction especially in this era where in recent months there has been the story of Tiger Woods which he hasn\u2019t been diagnosed as being a sexual addict.\u00a0 We certainly find a lot of evidence today, Harry, in the culture of people who are sexually addicted and you gave some statistics in your book that really were alarming.\u00a0 They alarmed me especially around how young people at earlier and earlier ages are getting exposed to pornography over the internet.\u00a0 Is this a major cause of creating sexual addicts today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think it is!\u00a0 If you go back to the old days before the internet all the stories that I ever heard were the young man, average age of 11, found pornography stashed in his father\u2019s house; meaning that his father had the magazines and brought them into the house.\u00a0\u00a0 Well, it is kind of like the stone age of today.\u00a0 You look at the internet and what you have is access from cell phone to computer, desktop, laptop anywhere, anytime, anyplace, wireless internet connection, and so children are really, really getting exposed.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we are going to see the average age, 11, drop dramatically.\u00a0 One statistic that I mentioned in the book is that 90% of 8\u201316 year olds have already viewed pornography on the internet.\u00a0 That accidental exposure, which it is a pop up, is like the accidental exposure discovering it in your father\u2019s basement.\u00a0 But now you have a whole different technology and access that I don\u2019t think that we get our mind wrapped around it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Harry, let me ask you, when we start talking\u00a0 about people; Dennis talked about somebody being diagnosed as a sexual addict, there is something inside of me that almost recoils at the use of the term addiction in this area.\u00a0 I know when you wrote <em>False Intimacy<\/em> the subtitle was about dealing with sexual addiction.\u00a0 Why does it feel wrong to me to refer to somebody as a sexual addict?\u00a0 Is it just a semantic issue that I am wrestling with here, do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 I don\u2019t think it is a semantic thing at all; Bob.\u00a0 I think when we talk about addictions, you think of the heroin addict or the alcoholic, and it is a whole different picture.\u00a0 We are talking about sex and sex I think first off is something very sacred that God has created and gives to a husband and wife in marriage and to pretty intimate and exclusive in marriage.\u00a0 When you bring it down to sex addict it sounds like you are kind of going into the gutter with something very precious that is sexuality.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the other thing is I don\u2019t really see it as addiction as you mentioned.\u00a0 My first book uses the term, but in the second book, <em>Undefiled<\/em>, I don\u2019t use the term at all.\u00a0 It is all sexual sin.\u00a0 I think we really have to emphasize that this is a sin more than anything else and I think with anyone who knows the word of God and believes the word of God, I think the word sin resonates much better than addiction or disease.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 It can become a besetting sin, a compulsive behavior, but there is something about addiction that makes me want to pull back and go, \u201cNo, it is not the same as a guy who has got to get his fix of heroin every day, is it?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 I don\u2019t think it is!\u00a0 I think we have that addiction to a chemical; someone can be addicted to prescription medications.\u00a0 We all have a sex desire and even with all the new information about being addicted to the sexual desire, the brain chemical.\u00a0 It is very normal to want to have sexual intimacy even as an adolescent growing up and of course in marriage it is very important to maintain that sexual interest.\u00a0 So, how do you make that into an addiction?\u00a0\u00a0 Heroin or whiskey is not something that you have to have.\u00a0 This [sexual intimacy] is a normal part of God\u2019s wonderful gift in creation to us in marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 I think a part of what Bob is talking about here is, Harry, is that we want people to be responsible for their behavior and not blame it on some predisposition, but I have to clarify this because of what I hear you saying.\u00a0 Do you want to exclude this then from being an addiction?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think I have come to that point in the 18 years that have gone by since <em>False Intimacy<\/em> came out that I think I just really shunned the word addiction and all the concept of disease, the concept of.....\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Predisposition?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Family of origin is the main reason or genetic causes.....\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Or being exposed as an 8 year old like we were talking about?\u00a0 An 11 year old?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Absolutely!\u00a0 We are talking about responsible people who are making a choice against God\u2019s will.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Over and over and over and over again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Over and over again.\u00a0 Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Is that person somehow, and again, I am using the word addicted, but they are drawn by endorphins being released in the brain or there is something that they are feeding off of that is not just looking at a picture, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 I think they are feeding off of their own selfish nature.\u00a0 And rather than feeding off the endorphins they are feeding off the sinful nature.\u00a0 If we lose sight of that I think we really lose sight of the need of the cross and of what I call sexual redemption in this book.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 What I hear you saying here, and I think this is really important for our listeners in this sex saturated culture where addiction has been thrown around.\u00a0 I can almost feel people being a little angry, that you are taking away their addiction; that they can no longer call this an addiction.\u00a0 What I hear you calling people to do is you are calling men and women to assume responsibility for their choices, and not be enslaved to sin.\u00a0 But step up and admit and repent that they have made wrong choices and turn from that sin and turn away from it and cry out to God and ask Him, Help me!\u00a0 Help me in my weakness!\u00a0 Help me be a real man, a real woman, surrendered to You and your Holy Spirit to be a sanctified vessel and have sex be something that is sacred as God designed it.\u00a0 Is that correct?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 That is exactly correct.\u00a0 I think that what we don\u2019t want to do in our own sinful natures is to be dependent, and in this case completely dependent upon God.\u00a0 I think when we can work steps and when we can go through our own recovery and manage our own counseling and when we can read the self help books that we want, we begin to think that we are in charge.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are talking about a problem worse than addiction.\u00a0 We are talking about bondage to use a scriptural word and the only thing that can break that bondage is God.\u00a0 When we lose sight of the power of God to transform who we are as spiritual beings and as sexual beings we will lose everything.\u00a0 I think this is a fight for truth; this is a fight for the importance of the gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I also hear you saying it is a fight against something that wants to control your life if you let it.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Exactly!\u00a0\u00a0 It is out there controlling if I let it, but I have a will.\u00a0 I am an incredible being created with an ability to choose and we can\u2019t lose sight of that.\u00a0 This is not something being forced upon me.\u00a0 This is a choice away from God and His truth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Okay!\u00a0 But you have talked to a lot of guys who have said I have come to the point where I say, \u201cI detest this.\u00a0 I despise it.\u00a0 I want to turn away from this and they...\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 ....I keep doing it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Yes!\u00a0 There are things I hate I end up doing is what they say.\u00a0 So, they say, I understand I have got a will, but it doesn\u2019t\u00a0 feel like I\u2019ve got a will because I just find myself dragged back into this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Well, if you get into this deep enough in scripture, which is of course the right way to go, is when you look at Romans chapter 1, you can make an argument that God gives us over. What does He give us over to?\u00a0 Our own desires!\u00a0 Why does He give us over to our own desires to be controlled by those desires?\u00a0 Which of course were originally legitimate desires. I think He gives us over in the context of that passage because we do not see God as God!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the guy who is saying, \u201cI don\u2019t have a will, I don\u2019t have an ability to break free.\u201d\u00a0 He is absolutely correct, but, we have to ask the question, why?\u00a0 He has made a choice to go against God and that is where you begin to lose control of your own will, your own desires so that feeling that I am out of control and I can\u2019t stop this is not delusional.\u00a0 It is real but what are the real theological, biblical explanations for losing that power to just say I am not going to do this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know you can put two guys in cubicles with 2 computers and one guy is not going to be able to resist pointing and clicking and the other person can resist.\u00a0 What is really going on inside of those two men?\u00a0\u00a0 I think that is what we are talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 What is going on inside the guy that is pointing and clicking \u2013 what is going on inside of him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 I think he sees a moment to immediately gratify himself because ultimately all of his life is bent more towards living for himself and who he is.\u00a0 You know I could tell stories upon stories of people I have counseled and they all come because they are struggling with pornography and some form of adultery.\u00a0 When you really take a look at what is going on in their ministry or what is going on in their career, it is all about \u2013 \u2018ME\u2019.\u00a0\u00a0 It is me, Me, ME, ME!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so what I have been saying for 18 years is I can\u2019t help you control that behavior, but I can tell you can find an answer to deal with this selfishness, the sense that this is all about me and I want to get what I want.\u00a0 But, here is the challenge; if you really go in this direction, you are going to have to change your entire lifestyle, not just a behavior.\u00a0 You are going to have to live for an entirely different purpose.\u00a0 In terms of your will the purpose of God, not for Harry Schaumburg\u2019s will or not for Bob Lepine\u2019s.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I ultimately hear you calling men and women who struggle with this away from idolatry of self and of sex and of pleasure, and of self gratification to the One true God to worship Him and to yield to Him.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Why has that become so novel?\u00a0 I mean that is the implication of what we are saying because I think we have accepted the message of a therapeutic culture that says, \u2018here\u2019s the explanation in my family of origin or whatever it is, rather than this is inside of me.\u2019\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you go to Colossians 3:5, Paul clearly says, \u201cPut to death therefore, what is earthly in you.\u201d\u00a0 And it is \u2018in you.\u2019\u00a0 And the next phrase, \u201csexual immorality,\u201d.....\u00a0 And it ends with, \u201ccovetousness,\u201d which is idolatry.\u00a0 What we are really dealing with; you are exactly right, Dennis, it is the worship of self.\u00a0 We live in a culture of \u2018Me\u2019 and we have turned this into a lifestyle!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I embrace what you are saying because of the hope it creates.\u00a0 When I am called an addict of something, there is a sense in which; and it is back to what I think Bob was referring to earlier, he doesn\u2019t like that term, because there is a feeling of, \u201cOh that poor person!\u00a0 He is just an addict!\u00a0 He is just enslaved to it!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 He can\u2019t help himself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes!\u00a0\u00a0 And you know what?\u00a0 There is not much hope in that!\u00a0\u00a0 How does he break free in that?\u00a0 And so, one of my questions I had down to ask you is, what is at the root of sexual addiction?\u00a0 You are saying, ultimately, \u201cwho will be your God!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry:<\/strong>\u00a0 Exactly!\u00a0\u00a0 And if God is not God, as we go back to Romans, chapter 1 again, than my desires will control me.\u00a0 I will be beyond able to do what I want to do \u2013 the way I want to do it; and in particularly when it comes to my body.\u00a0 I will do with my body what I want to do with it and of course the expression of that is going to be sexual immorality.\u00a0 It is all about God being God!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 So, back to Bob\u2019s question he asked a bit earlier, when he said, \u201cI am a guy who just keeps slipping off into this and my wife has caught me and she doesn\u2019t trust me and it is causing an atomic explosion in the marriage relationship.\u00a0 It is threatening the very fiber of their vows; the lack of faithfulness at this point.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 You would say to that man, \u201cRepent!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Repent and you will find radical change on the inside that will be expressed on the outside.\u00a0 What we talk about in <em>Undefiled<\/em> then is a man becomes a different man, a woman becomes a different woman, and there must be what we would call, \u2018the fruit of repentance.\u2019\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe must live in a sexually and a spiritually different way.\u00a0 We have to be a different man, a different woman, not just stopping the pornography.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob<\/strong>:\u00a0 Okay, but hang on, there are some guys who just said, \u201cI just heard you say, \u2018Repent,\u2019 and I have tried that before and that doesn\u2019t work.\u00a0 I have said I am not going to do this anymore.\u00a0 I don\u2019t want to do it and I still wind up doing it.\u00a0 So, repenting isn\u2019t working for me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 I think there is true repentance and false repentance.\u00a0 In false repentance, I think again, the motive is:\u00a0 I have got to save my marriage. The motive is I have got to save my career.\u00a0 \u201cHarry, help me I have got to get this right.\u201d\u00a0 Of the hundreds and hundreds of people who have come through our counseling program, everyone comes because they want to get their life straightened out.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy message continually is that this doesn\u2019t solve the problem!\u00a0 I am not here to get your life straightened out! I am not here to save your marriage!\u00a0\u00a0 In essence, I am here for a radical change, where in which you need to become a different man and a different woman.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so, repentance is something; some people are not even asking for ... when they say, \u201cGod I repent.\u201d\u00a0 What are they doing?\u00a0 They are saying, \u201cI feel self-disgust, I don\u2019t like doing this, my wife hates it, and if I don\u2019t get control of it I am going to lose my marriage,\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 And I say, \u201cThat is not enough for God to act!\u00a0 God acts when we completely come to Him with nothing and that He can do everything to transform this.\u201d\u00a0 That is what I believe!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis<\/strong>:\u00a0 Okay!\u00a0 I have got one last question I have to ask you because there has to be a woman, right now, who is listening who is saying, \u201cHey Harry, I am married to a man who doesn\u2019t care about repenting.\u00a0 He doesn\u2019t see any sin, any wrong doing, and this guy is just off in it.\u00a0 What in the world do I do as his wife?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Harry<\/strong>:\u00a0 Those women call our office all the time!\u00a0\u00a0 Those are tough situations.\u00a0 You would like a guy to at least be motivated to save his marriage!\u00a0 But, when there is no motivation and when he doesn\u2019t want to break off the affair or when he doesn\u2019t want to stop the sexual sin; that is a real challenge. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think often we take the easy way out and the counselor or the pastor says, \u201cYou have got grounds for divorce.\u00a0 He has been unfaithful.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 We take a much narrower view and approach and that is, okay, \u201cWhat does God want you to do to really be in a position to draw your husband towards something that is more of a reality than the false intimacy, the illusion that he is getting from the prostitute, the pornography, and the affair?\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think there is gentleness and a quietness; that is what I am going to encourage, is the woman to come to her husband and say, \u201cYou know I can give you more than you could ever find in the arms of that other woman.\u201d\u00a0 That could be said seductively, but I think it needs to be said in a godly way.\u00a0 What I mean by that is at the end of life, when we get old, who is going to feed you; that young 20 year old?\u00a0 No!\u00a0 I am going to be here and if I have to nurse you as an old man and as an old woman, I will be here and we can grow old together.\u00a0 There is something about sexuality and there is something about intimacy that we need to see that is much deeper than self-gratification; in whatever form it is expressed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think whether it be to the wife who is in a tough situation like you just described, Harry, or to the man who is caught in this sin and genuinely wants to get out and repent, the call is to the cross of Jesus Christ.\u00a0 Paul wrote to Timothy, \u201cFlee youthful passions and pursue righteousness,\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 Where are you going to find righteousness?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is found in the person of Jesus Christ!\u00a0 He is the one you pursue when you find faith, love, and peace and you pursue Him while being surrounded by others who are doing the same thing.\u00a0 Paul finishes this passage to Timothy, he says, \u201cSo flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat is not an easy route!\u00a0 It demands courage, it demands faith, perseverance, and when you slip and fall you get back up!\u00a0 But it is the route of rebuilding trust.\u00a0 It is the route of finding life, hope and as you write in your book, it is the way you find redemption and healing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0 I have been sitting here thinking about Matthew 13 where Jesus tells the parable of the pearl of great price.\u00a0 And the man who finds that pearl, what does he sell to get it?\u00a0 He sells everything and goes back and buys the pearl.\u00a0 The point is we need to see the gospel.\u00a0 We need to see Jesus and our redemption as so valuable that it dislodges from our hands the idols that we hang on to, even the idol of sexual sin that we have been talking about here today.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that is what is at the heart of how you address this issue in the book, <em>Undefiled<\/em>, which we have in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 It is a book that offers redemption from sexual sin and restoration for broken relationships.\u00a0 It is by our guest Dr. Harry Schaumburg. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo online at FamilyLifeToday.com and get more information on how you can get a copy of the book.\u00a0 Again, it is called <em>Undefiled<\/em>.\u00a0 The website, FamilyLifeToday.com or you can call us toll-free at 1-800-FL-TODAY if you would like; 1-800-358-6329 and we will make arrangements to get a copy of Harry\u2019s book sent to you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me encourage listeners to make sure you are being proactive in guarding and protecting your marriage.\u00a0 As you were reading Paul\u2019s advice to Timothy he says, flee this and instead pursue this.\u00a0 I would say to listeners we need to be fleeing the cultural messages about our marriage and we need to be pursuing what the Bible says about our marriage.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor years we have been encouraging couples to go through a <em>HomeBuilders<\/em> study.\u00a0 This is something you can do with other couples or if you just want to do it with the two of you, get at couple of <em>HomeBuilders<\/em> study guides and go through the material and ask each other the questions and just use it as part of your date night activities that build into and strengthen your marriage relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month if you are able to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> of any amount we would love to send you two copies of the newly revised <em>HomeBuilders<\/em> study guide called, <em>Building Your Marriage to Last<\/em>.\u00a0 It is our gift to you when you support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> again, with a donation of any amount and you can do that either online at FamilyLifeToday.com and if you on there to make a donation and you want the <em>HomeBuilders<\/em> guides, type the word \u201cBUILD\u201d in to the key code box and we will know to send these study guides out to you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr call 1-800-FL-TODAY, 1-800-358-6329 and make your donation over the phone and just say I\u2019d like those study guides.\u00a0 We are happy to send them out to you and again, we appreciate your partnership with us.\u00a0 We are listener supported so your donations are what is keeping us this station and on our network of stations all across the country.\u00a0 We really do appreciate you!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we are going to talk to Dr. Harry Schaumburg about what we can do as parents to raise children who understand and embrace sexual purity; not just abstinence, but what you refer to in your book as sexual maturity.\u00a0 I hope our listeners can be back with us for that conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our host Dennis Rainey, I am Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for Today.\u00a0 Hope for Tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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