{"id":301871,"date":"2009-08-03T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2009-08-03T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/marriage-as-a-ministry\/"},"modified":"2009-08-03T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2009-08-03T15:00:00","slug":"marriage-as-a-ministry","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/marriage-as-a-ministry\/","title":{"rendered":"Marriage as a Ministry"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Could your marriage use a tune up?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2009-08-03.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"11.53M","filesize_raw":"12085027","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2831],"tags":[4922,4921,4923,4920],"podcast_series":[7663],"cwp_profile":[9172],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301871","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-wives","tag-mom","tag-mother","tag-wife","tag-womanhood","podcast_series-loving-your-man-without-losing-your-mind","cwp_profile-will-and-susie-davis","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301871\/marriage-as-a-ministry","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301871\/marriage-as-a-ministry","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"cv8u4wfW9Q\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/marriage-as-a-ministry\/\">Marriage as a Ministry<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/marriage-as-a-ministry\/embed\/#?secret=cv8u4wfW9Q\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Marriage as a Ministry&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"cv8u4wfW9Q\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2009-08-03.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2009-08-03.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie: <\/strong>It wasn\u2019t that we were slamming doors, and hitting into things. Remember pastor and pastor\u2019s wife, we weren\u2019t doing all that! Not that it can\u2019t happen: but I think some of it was about that I was putting my trust in the wrong place, you know. Of course I was really busy with the kids \u2013 they took a ton of time and energy. They were all like seven and under. So, if I wasn\u2019t having a baby, I was nursing a baby, or taking care of babies. There was just a lot going on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, August 3<sup>rd<\/sup>.\u00a0\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife Dennis Rainey and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 When your marriage gets the blahs what do you do?\u00a0 We are going to talk about that today with Will and Susie Davis. Stay tuned!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I\u2019m just curious, if we were in touch with your wife Barbara, and I was asking her on a maintenance scale one to ten: ten being high maintenance, really a challenge, one being low maintenance, no problem at all where would she put you?\u00a0 Do you have any idea?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I wish we could call her right now and ask her, but my guess would be a four or five. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Really?\u00a0 So on the lower side.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I don\u2019t think she would describe me as high maintenance, but I would say this \u2013 any marriage that really goes the distance today is ultimately high maintenance.\u00a0 You need to score a ten, because if you are going to get a lot out of a marriage you have to put a lot in it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes!\u00a0 For years we have been encouraging our listeners to get some time away together at one of our Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences, and make the kind of investment deposit that you are talking about in their marriage relationship.\u00a0 I just want to alert folks that the fall season of Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences is kicking off next month, and now is a good time to sit down, look at the calendar and start to plan for the fall, and make plans to attend one of these conferences. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, this week and next week we are making a special offer available to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\u00a0 You can register to attend an upcoming FamilyLife Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference.\u00a0 If you register at the regular price, you can bring a second couple along with you at no cost.\u00a0 So, it is really a buy one, get one free offer that we are making for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Actually this little secret is that you don\u2019t actually have to attend together.\u00a0 So, you can buy a conference for you and your spouse and you can go attend in St. Louis, and your friends who live all the way across the country out in California out in Monterey, they can go to the conference when it comes near them at no cost. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll the details are available on our website FamilyLifeToday.com. You can call 1-800-FLTODAY for more information about the special offer for <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners, and you need to use my name when you register.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So, if you are registering on line just type in \u201cBob\u201d to take advantage of the special offer, or if you call 1-800-FLTODAY again just say \u201cBob\u201d told me to call, and that will signal the folks that you are a <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listener. You are eligible for this special offer \u2013 it\u2019s only good this week and next week, so we need to hear from you. Make plans now, attend an upcoming Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference, and if you register at the regular price for you and your spouse, you can invite another couple to attend at no cost.\u00a0 It\u2019s a buy one; get one free opportunity for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, all of the details are available on-line at FamilyLifeToday.com or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY for more information. I think the point we are making with all of this is: it\u2019s important that couples routinely make the necessary investments in their marriage so that marriage can go the distance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, marriage, as a relationship really demands on-going deposits, and attention, and affection, and work.\u00a0 We have a couple with us who know a little bit about attention, affection, and work.\u00a0 We have Will and Susie Davis joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Hello, hello! Glad to be here!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Hey there!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Friends from Austin, Texas.\u00a0 Will is the pastor of Austin Christian Fellowship. Together you guys have three children.\u00a0 You both are speakers, and also authors. Susie has written a book: it\u2019s a great title: <em>Loving Your Man Without Losing Your Mind.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I thought Will\u2019s picture would be right here on the cover.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That\u2019s a terrible title if you want to know the truth about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It\u2019s actually just an exercise in creative writing.\u00a0 It\u2019s all fiction \u2013 it\u2019s nothing to do with Will at all. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It\u2019s no real life examples at all!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know I thought it was fiction when I read in your book that you were ten years into your marriage before you realized Will wasn\u2019t perfect?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You know what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I thought now wait a second!\u00a0 Ten years into your marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I had her fooled \u2013 I had her fooled!\u00a0 How about that?\u00a0 Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019re blonde, but you\u2019re not that blonde!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie: <\/strong>Yes, honestly it was \u2013 definitely talk about high maintenance.\u00a0 There were some moments that he was high maintenance early on in the marriage.\u00a0 I think I really didn\u2019t stumble into that feeling that I know a lot of wives do if they\u2019ve been married a little or a really long time.\u00a0 Just that feeling that seems to me \u2013 you know what he just doesn\u2019t make me happy anymore.\u00a0 It really did take about 10 years \u2013 we had a long honeymoon period I guess: for me to kind of bump into that \u2013 you know what \u2013 I don\u2019t feel happy anymore!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You talking about hopelessness?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think it was just \u2013 yes I was committed to marriage, but I think it was just a feeling like you know what this is not what I planned.\u00a0 This is not what I dreamed of all my life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s not working?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, and I\u2019m unhappy.\u00a0 So yes, I would say, \u201cIt took about ten years if you can imagine that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Did you have any clue ten years into your marriage that your wife was feeling discontented?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>No! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Probably not \u2013 so you are a typical guy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I was like \u2013 things are great \u2013 what\u2019s the problem here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>But, you are in the ministry? I mean you are pastoring a church telling everybody else how to be a man of God\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Oh yeah \u2013 had the perfect fa\u00e7ade \u2013 mister spiritual \u2013 telling them how to do it! No clue!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You were swinging and missing at home!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Did you bring this to the surface?\u00a0 Did you decide I have to bring this out in the open?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie: <\/strong>Yes \u2013 absolutely! I think it was really \u2013 Will and I got married pretty young \u2013 I was 21, he was 22.\u00a0 Then we started having kids pretty quick.\u00a0 Then, we were doing ministry, so we were really busy \u2013 had a lot going on. I was incredibly \u2013 mothering takes a lot of time and energy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHonestly what happened is in eighth grade I witnessed a murder and about 10 years into the marriage I started having to deal with this death that had happened because of what I saw.\u00a0 Then, my healing kind of bled over into his life, and created some tension for him on some stuff that \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod needed to do in his life.\u00a0 So, it ruffed up our marriage quite a bit in a good and a bad way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe really had to work through that to get to the place where we were better with each other.\u00a0 It really tested my commitment that I had to marriage and to Will.\u00a0 It just was like \u2013 okay you are not happy, does that really change anything?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Susie, you just quickly ran by something!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Minor detail!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes \u2013 you witnessed a murder, and this is so dramatic.\u00a0 When two people do get married they do bring bags into the marriage relationship and little by little over time we begin to unpack those bags and we begin to find out who that other person is: what they\u2019ve experienced, what they\u2019ve seen?\u00a0 For you, you actually as a young lady watched somebody get murdered?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Right!\u00a0 I\u2019ll just preface it a little bit \u2013 I became a Christian when I was twelve through the ministry of Young Life.\u00a0 We got involved in a church, and I was all about Jesus and butterflies, and rainbows.\u00a0 I believed everything I read, it was a great experience, and then in eighth grade I was in my English class.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now, we are in Austin, Texas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Austin Texas:\u00a0 A guy who actually lived up the street from me, went through elementary school with me, came into our English class with a rifle and shot and killed our teacher in front of us.\u00a0 Obviously it was very traumatic. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact that was in the late \u201870\u2019s \u2013 it was kind of unheard of in America. It was a hugely sensational story, but I really struggled through that. I was incredibly fearful and it impacted my relationship with God in an immense way as you can imagine.\u00a0 I was around people who were telling me I was going to be okay, and so I believed that I was going to be okay!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now are you talking about Christians just using God speak?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Sure!\u00a0 Sometimes yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>They did the best they could.\u00a0 Her parents, everybody did as best they could!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes \u2013 I mean looking back it was incredibly traumatic, it had really not happened. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>How do you deal with a school shooting in 1976 or 77 \u2013 whatever it was? You don\u2019t!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie: <\/strong>Right!\u00a0 What happened is, I kind of grieved for a little bit: couple months, and then I pushed on with life.\u00a0 Something pretty significant happened in me \u2013 I loved God, but I didn\u2019t trust Him!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo what happened is I was a good Christian girl and I kept doing all the good Christian stuff and I loved God \u2013 I truly, really loved Him, but I felt like He walked out of the room on me, and it created a lot of distress for me because I felt like He could have kept it from happening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I didn\u2019t get how He could be a loving God who says, \u201cYou know what, I have good plans for your life, because I really didn\u2019t feel like that was a good plan at all\u201d!\u00a0 He really healed me up pretty quickly which was amazing.\u00a0 It was really through a Mom\u2019s group that I was in.\u00a0 I was meeting with Mom\u2019s and praying with them.\u00a0 Not about that, but that is where it all came out in a safe place.\u00a0 My wellness affected Will, and then he ended up having to deal with some stuff that he had really not dealt with for a very long time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>In those darkest days of your marriage describe for me what it was like?\u00a0 Were the two of you just not talking; were you angry with one another, throwing stuff at each other?\u00a0 What was going on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You know honestly when I look back on it now Bob, I think that really we were slowly growing distant. It wasn\u2019t that we were slamming doors, and hitting into things.\u00a0 Remember you know, pastor and pastor\u2019s wife \u2013 we weren\u2019t doing all that.\u00a0 Not that it can\u2019t happen but maybe for some reason because of that we didn\u2019t handle it that way.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just slowly grew cold towards Will, and I think that some of it was about that I was putting my trust in the wrong place.\u00a0 Some of it was about that he needed to get healed up about stuff. Of course, I was really busy with the kids.\u00a0 They took a ton of time and energy \u2013 they were all like seven and under, so if I wasn\u2019t having a baby, I was nursing a baby or taking care of babies. There was just a lot going on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>In the meantime you are busy with the church and everything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>School, church, the fa\u00e7ade on my end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>So, you are not even aware necessarily that this drift is occurring \u2013 it\u2019s just kind of one of those busy seasons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>If I was aware, I was not equipped emotionally to deal with it.\u00a0\u00a0 I didn\u2019t have the tools in my resource kit to do anything about it.\u00a0 I was even more emotionally challenged than my wife was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019ve indicated that there was something in your bags you hadn\u2019t unpacked. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I brought a lot of them into the marriage!\u00a0 We were too young when we got married probably.\u00a0 I loved Christ \u2013 the call to ministry and Christ was passionate but I had a pretty long season of anger toward my parents and what I call my black cauldron.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can envision this big brewing black cauldron in my spirit. It was emotional hurt and pain, anger, unforgiveness and junk.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t tell my Mom I loved her for 20 years, and didn\u2019t know how to do intimacy and authenticity at all.\u00a0 So, I was faking it with Susie.\u00a0 I was faking it in my small group.\u00a0 Faking it with God!\u00a0\u00a0 He busted that up big time! Susie\u2019s healing launched it for me.\u00a0 When Susie got healed, the ripple effect of that kind of stirred me up and that started about a three-year process for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>She got real and in the process demonstrated to you what that looked like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>She did \u2013 scared the bejeebers out of me! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I would think it would!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>What are you doing? No \u2013 no \u2013 no real please!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019d been married for how many years at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Oh gosh \u2013 almost ten. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Do you remember when she sat you down or pulled you aside and said, \u201cWe have to talk?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I remember the night that we were talking about it before, and we stayed up until 3 a.m. and she started venting and all this stuff came out.\u00a0 Then she looked at me and said, \u201cHow come nothing bad has ever happened to you?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201c I haven\u2019t told my Mom I loved her since I was like in eighth grade.\u201d\u00a0 That conversation started it. It was pretty crazy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>If that was the starting point to go from this drift toward isolation to start moving you back toward real intimacy in marriage, what did that journey look like, and how long did it take? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie: <\/strong>Well, you know it\u2019s funny is when I got real with me, it\u2019s like a paradox \u2013 it\u2019s strangely liberating, but you feel so ugly.\u00a0 It\u2019s easier to be the good Christian girl, or a pastor\u2019s wife or say the right things, so you\u2019re so free, and yet you feel so naked and ugly.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I think about it now looking back I think it was kind of a push and a pull kind of thing.\u00a0 We pulled together because we were both so grateful and so free, and then we say, \u201cEw \u2013 yuck, you know and point fingers at each other and accuse each other.\u00a0 It was kind of an in and out kind of thing until we finally got to a place really where we were both healthy enough.\u00a0 We went through marriage counseling which I think is an important thing to do if you are stuck in that phase of kind of that in and out where you are not walking every day and having positive kinds of experiences.\u00a0 You need to seek help!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Did that feel threatening and embarrassing to you to go sit with a marriage counselor as a seminary student?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Oh yes: Seminary student, pastor, and the whole thing.\u00a0 There was one time we were in the office and the counselor had us wait in a different room because church members were out in the lobby coming in to see him.\u00a0 We were like we can\u2019t be public about this yet.\u00a0 Plus it\u2019s just I\u2019m okay \u2013 I don\u2019t have problems, and so I don\u2019t need to see a Christian counselor.\u00a0 He\u2019s my best friend now \u2013 he\u2019s my accountability partner, but I was afraid to go into his office because that\u2019s where really sick, weird people went.\u00a0\u00a0 I send people to him; I don\u2019t go to him personally!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter) \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Even though you knew you hadn\u2019t told your Mom you loved her in 20 years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I thought it was okay Dennis. I didn\u2019t think there was anything wrong with it. I just thought that\u2019s how it was. I had not done the math. I wasn\u2019t a very bright guy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s just being honest \u2013 I was missing a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I don\u2019t think it has anything to do with being bright. I think it\u2019s getting stuck. We get stuck as human beings, and we don\u2019t know we\u2019re in a ditch!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I was stuck!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0 It takes a wife who gets out of the ditch herself, and says, \u201cHey \u2013 it\u2019s liberating out here \u2013 come join me!\u201d\u00a0 A lot of people face their fears; they think give me the comfort of the ditch!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I was a legalist off the charts, and the way this affected my theology was I was a rule keeper, and a rule preacher. T he problem was what I was imposing on people, I wasn\u2019t doing.\u00a0 I was the best Pharisee that ever lived, and this healing process included the whole awakening of grace for me.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s one of the best things of this story: my world is I discovered grace, and what unconditional love looks like. That, I think gave me the courage to start leaning into this healing process. I really was loved for free; I was going to be okay anyway we went. When I discovered grace it started the process for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, did you go to your Mom?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, I did. I\u2019m getting goose bumps \u2013 that\u2019s a great story.\u00a0 We sat down in the counselor\u2019s office and I had just some can I come to Jesus conversation.\u00a0 She didn\u2019t do anything wrong, it was all my sin and my awareness.\u00a0 She did the best she could!\u00a0 We sat down in the counselor\u2019s office: my Mom and my Dad and I got off my chest about six hours of session. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA week later she almost died, and spent three months in ICU in a coma, which I of course thought I had caused because I had told her all this stuff.\u00a0 She had septicemia and almost died.\u00a0 I was able to love on her and hold her hand and tell her I love her, and be by her bedside with great sincerity. A week before I hadn\u2019t been able to do that. So the timing was amazing! She\u2019s in a nursing home today, we\u2019re buds.\u00a0 I tell her I love her.\u00a0 I call her.\u00a0 We tease each other, it\u2019s one of the greatest healing stories I\u2019ve seen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>So, you discovered grace and mercy \u2013 when did you ask her to forgive you for the cauldron, the black cauldron?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That day in my office.\u00a0 Yes! What\u2019s funny is she didn\u2019t know I was mad at her!\u00a0 I said, \u201cI\u2019ve been holding a grudge against you\u201d, and she said, \u201cReally \u2013 I had no idea\u201d!\u00a0 I said \u201cWhat good is a grudge if you didn\u2019t know I was mad at you?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt wasn\u2019t helping anybody, it was just making me sick \u2013 at least she should have been suffering for it \u2013 right? She didn\u2019t! She wasn\u2019t, and I said, I\u2019m so sorry!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019re the one that was suffering.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I was the jerk! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You know, as you guys were telling your story, I\u2019ve been thinking of two things \u2013 Dennis. I\u2019ve been thinking of the first two chapters of the book that you and Barbara wrote years ago \u2013 <em>Building Your Mates Self Esteem.<\/em> The phantom pictures we try to live up to in marriage and the bags that we bring in, and the past, and how that affects our marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou guys go into a lot of detail of talking about how you have to deal with that in marriage. Then, I\u2019ve been thinking about what we talk about at the Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference: this drift toward isolation that occurs in every marriage unless you\u2019re intentional. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, and I was thinking about a third thing, and that was the book about honoring your parents, which is called <em>The Best Gift You\u2019ll Ever Give Your Parents.<\/em> Will, it talks about ultimately moving towards honoring your parents, which is the fifth commandment which has a promise associated with it.\u00a0 What I\u2019ve found in not only doing that myself, and getting some things off my chest with my parents, but in honoring them you have to move through forgiveness, and you have to learn what it means to love them and to honor them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think when we come into marriage; we don\u2019t realize how those past relationships like this impact the present.\u00a0 They impacted your marriage; they undoubtedly impacted your relationship with your children.\u00a0 If you can\u2019t trust God, and you can\u2019t trust each other what\u2019s that marriage going to look like?\u00a0 What are those kids going to pick up about what a real relationship looks like?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, what we have to realize as human beings is we are all broken, all in need of grace, all in need of mercy, all in need of forgiveness, and there\u2019s no better place than a marriage relationship to demonstrate this: the bridegroom and the bride.\u00a0 Here we are in marriage, and what we have to learn is we have to forgive.\u00a0\u00a0 We have to pursue. We have to love.\u00a0 We have to grant mercy, and we have to do that repeatedly.\u00a0 It\u2019s not a matter of doing it once and it\u2019s been done \u2013 it\u2019s a matter of over, and over, and over again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s back to what you talk about in your book: <em>Loving Your Man Without Losing Your Mind. <\/em>It took you ten years to find out he wasn\u2019t imperfect.\u00a0 You don\u2019t think that today, I\u2019m sure!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>She thinks I\u2019m perfect today!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Does she?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>No!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>She pretty much knows I\u2019m perfect, because I am!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>He\u2019s the perfect person for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>There you go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s the right answer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie: <\/strong>I mean that from the bottom of my heart.\u00a0 The reason why is: I\u2019ve told women when I speak with them - because really marriage is a ministry.\u00a0 You need to see it as a ministry. Sometimes you wake up and you don\u2019t feel like ministering to that person. It would be easier to go feed people under the bridge at 5:00 in the morning.\u00a0 You know, it would be a lot easier! But, marriage is a ministry!\u00a0 The thing about ministry is that you learn so much about yourself, and you draw close to God when you serve someone else.\u00a0 I think that Will, has done more than any living human to make me more like God. I really do!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think marriage was designed by God to redeem us from ourselves!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Amen!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>There is no way you can love as intimately as you are called to love one another in such close proximity as a husband and a wife and see one another\u2019s flaws and weaknesses, and disappoint each other.\u00a0 The only way you can do that I think is by ultimately surrendering to Christ, yielding your will to Him, and saying, \u201cLord thank you for forgiving me, now make me a vessel of forgiveness, grace and mercy for my husband \u2013 for my wife\u201d.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think one of the things that you point out here, and it\u2019s something you point out in your book, and it\u2019s something we talk about at our FamilyLife Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences.\u00a0 If a husband and wife want to grow together they first have to make sure that their relationship with God is a growing relationship.\u00a0 You get your relationship with God right, and you get growing with Him and that has a profound impact on your marriage relationship.\u00a0 If your relationship with God is not right, that\u2019s going to have a profound impact on your marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0When we sit down with couples at our Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences we talk about very practical issues like communication and sexual intimacy.\u00a0 We talk about what a husband\u2019s responsibility is, what a wife\u2019s responsibility is in a marriage relationship.\u00a0 We unpack what the Bible has to say about all of these things.\u00a0 At the core of it all, is your relationship with God and whether that is where it ought to be?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I just want to once again encourage our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners to contact us this week or next week, and make plans to attend one of these upcoming FamilyLife Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences.\u00a0 We are going to be hosting more than 50 of these conferences in cities all across the country this fall.\u00a0 When you register for an upcoming conference when it comes to a city near where you live.\u00a0 You and your spouse register at the regular price, and we are going to give you a second registration for free.\u00a0 Something you can pass along to your kids, something you can pass along to somebody you know at church: you and another couple can get together and split the difference if you want to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0However you want to do it, but it\u2019s a buy one get one free offer for the Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference and it\u2019s good only this week and next week. If you want to take advantage of it you need to call 1-800-FLTODAY and say, \u201cI want to sign up for a Weekend to Remember.\u00a0 I heard Bob talking about it on the radio \u2013 mention my name. Say, \u201cI heard Bob talking about it on the radio\u201d, and that way they will know you are a <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listener, and you will be eligible for this special rate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr, you can go on-line at FamilyLifeToday.com\u00a0 - you can register for an upcoming conference on-line: there\u2019s a promotion code box on the registration form\u00a0 - just type my name in the promo code box \u2013 just type \u201cBob\u201d in there, and automatically when you register at the regular rate you will get a second registration absolutely free. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, if you have any questions call 1-800-FLTODAY, or go on-line at FamilyLifeToday.com. All the information you need is available there.\u00a0 We hope you will make plans to attend an up-coming Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe fall season kicks off here in a few weeks.\u00a0 I know it still feels like it\u2019s the middle of summer, but now is the time to be making plans to attend a fun, romantic get-a-way for couples at a FamilyLife Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me also mention when you are on our web site FamilyLifeToday.com get a copy of Susie Davis\u2019s book <em>Loving Your Man Without Losing Your Mind<\/em>.\u00a0 Again there is more information about the book available at FamilyLifeToday.com or you can order on-line if you like and we will make sure that we get a copy of this book sent out to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, Will and Susie are going to be back with us tomorrow.\u00a0 We are going to talk more about some of the lessons they\u2019ve learned in their marriage about one another, about their relationship with God.\u00a0 I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today Keith Lynch and our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our host Dennis Rainey I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["11.53M"],"filesize_raw":["12085027"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-301871.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-301871.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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your marriage use a tune up?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2009-08-03.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie: <\/strong>It wasn\u2019t that we were slamming doors, and hitting into things. Remember pastor and pastor\u2019s wife, we weren\u2019t doing all that! Not that it can\u2019t happen: but I think some of it was about that I was putting my trust in the wrong place, you know. Of course I was really busy with the kids \u2013 they took a ton of time and energy. They were all like seven and under. So, if I wasn\u2019t having a baby, I was nursing a baby, or taking care of babies. There was just a lot going on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, August 3<sup>rd<\/sup>.\u00a0\u00a0 Our host is the President of FamilyLife Dennis Rainey and I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 When your marriage gets the blahs what do you do?\u00a0 We are going to talk about that today with Will and Susie Davis. Stay tuned!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I\u2019m just curious, if we were in touch with your wife Barbara, and I was asking her on a maintenance scale one to ten: ten being high maintenance, really a challenge, one being low maintenance, no problem at all where would she put you?\u00a0 Do you have any idea?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, I wish we could call her right now and ask her, but my guess would be a four or five. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Really?\u00a0 So on the lower side.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 I don\u2019t think she would describe me as high maintenance, but I would say this \u2013 any marriage that really goes the distance today is ultimately high maintenance.\u00a0 You need to score a ten, because if you are going to get a lot out of a marriage you have to put a lot in it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yes!\u00a0 For years we have been encouraging our listeners to get some time away together at one of our Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences, and make the kind of investment deposit that you are talking about in their marriage relationship.\u00a0 I just want to alert folks that the fall season of Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences is kicking off next month, and now is a good time to sit down, look at the calendar and start to plan for the fall, and make plans to attend one of these conferences. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, this week and next week we are making a special offer available to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\u00a0 You can register to attend an upcoming FamilyLife Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference.\u00a0 If you register at the regular price, you can bring a second couple along with you at no cost.\u00a0 So, it is really a buy one, get one free offer that we are making for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Actually this little secret is that you don\u2019t actually have to attend together.\u00a0 So, you can buy a conference for you and your spouse and you can go attend in St. Louis, and your friends who live all the way across the country out in California out in Monterey, they can go to the conference when it comes near them at no cost. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll the details are available on our website FamilyLifeToday.com. You can call 1-800-FLTODAY for more information about the special offer for <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners, and you need to use my name when you register.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So, if you are registering on line just type in \u201cBob\u201d to take advantage of the special offer, or if you call 1-800-FLTODAY again just say \u201cBob\u201d told me to call, and that will signal the folks that you are a <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listener. You are eligible for this special offer \u2013 it\u2019s only good this week and next week, so we need to hear from you. Make plans now, attend an upcoming Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference, and if you register at the regular price for you and your spouse, you can invite another couple to attend at no cost.\u00a0 It\u2019s a buy one; get one free opportunity for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, all of the details are available on-line at FamilyLifeToday.com or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY for more information. I think the point we are making with all of this is: it\u2019s important that couples routinely make the necessary investments in their marriage so that marriage can go the distance. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know, marriage, as a relationship really demands on-going deposits, and attention, and affection, and work.\u00a0 We have a couple with us who know a little bit about attention, affection, and work.\u00a0 We have Will and Susie Davis joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Hello, hello! Glad to be here!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Hey there!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Friends from Austin, Texas.\u00a0 Will is the pastor of Austin Christian Fellowship. Together you guys have three children.\u00a0 You both are speakers, and also authors. Susie has written a book: it\u2019s a great title: <em>Loving Your Man Without Losing Your Mind.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0 I thought Will\u2019s picture would be right here on the cover.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That\u2019s a terrible title if you want to know the truth about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It\u2019s actually just an exercise in creative writing.\u00a0 It\u2019s all fiction \u2013 it\u2019s nothing to do with Will at all. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>It\u2019s no real life examples at all!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 You know I thought it was fiction when I read in your book that you were ten years into your marriage before you realized Will wasn\u2019t perfect?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You know what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I thought now wait a second!\u00a0 Ten years into your marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I had her fooled \u2013 I had her fooled!\u00a0 How about that?\u00a0 Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019re blonde, but you\u2019re not that blonde!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie: <\/strong>Yes, honestly it was \u2013 definitely talk about high maintenance.\u00a0 There were some moments that he was high maintenance early on in the marriage.\u00a0 I think I really didn\u2019t stumble into that feeling that I know a lot of wives do if they\u2019ve been married a little or a really long time.\u00a0 Just that feeling that seems to me \u2013 you know what he just doesn\u2019t make me happy anymore.\u00a0 It really did take about 10 years \u2013 we had a long honeymoon period I guess: for me to kind of bump into that \u2013 you know what \u2013 I don\u2019t feel happy anymore!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You talking about hopelessness?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think it was just \u2013 yes I was committed to marriage, but I think it was just a feeling like you know what this is not what I planned.\u00a0 This is not what I dreamed of all my life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 It\u2019s not working?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, and I\u2019m unhappy.\u00a0 So yes, I would say, \u201cIt took about ten years if you can imagine that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Did you have any clue ten years into your marriage that your wife was feeling discontented?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>No! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Probably not \u2013 so you are a typical guy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I was like \u2013 things are great \u2013 what\u2019s the problem here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>But, you are in the ministry? I mean you are pastoring a church telling everybody else how to be a man of God\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Oh yeah \u2013 had the perfect fa\u00e7ade \u2013 mister spiritual \u2013 telling them how to do it! No clue!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You were swinging and missing at home!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Did you bring this to the surface?\u00a0 Did you decide I have to bring this out in the open?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie: <\/strong>Yes \u2013 absolutely! I think it was really \u2013 Will and I got married pretty young \u2013 I was 21, he was 22.\u00a0 Then we started having kids pretty quick.\u00a0 Then, we were doing ministry, so we were really busy \u2013 had a lot going on. I was incredibly \u2013 mothering takes a lot of time and energy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHonestly what happened is in eighth grade I witnessed a murder and about 10 years into the marriage I started having to deal with this death that had happened because of what I saw.\u00a0 Then, my healing kind of bled over into his life, and created some tension for him on some stuff that \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod needed to do in his life.\u00a0 So, it ruffed up our marriage quite a bit in a good and a bad way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe really had to work through that to get to the place where we were better with each other.\u00a0 It really tested my commitment that I had to marriage and to Will.\u00a0 It just was like \u2013 okay you are not happy, does that really change anything?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Susie, you just quickly ran by something!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Minor detail!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes \u2013 you witnessed a murder, and this is so dramatic.\u00a0 When two people do get married they do bring bags into the marriage relationship and little by little over time we begin to unpack those bags and we begin to find out who that other person is: what they\u2019ve experienced, what they\u2019ve seen?\u00a0 For you, you actually as a young lady watched somebody get murdered?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Right!\u00a0 I\u2019ll just preface it a little bit \u2013 I became a Christian when I was twelve through the ministry of Young Life.\u00a0 We got involved in a church, and I was all about Jesus and butterflies, and rainbows.\u00a0 I believed everything I read, it was a great experience, and then in eighth grade I was in my English class.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now, we are in Austin, Texas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Austin Texas:\u00a0 A guy who actually lived up the street from me, went through elementary school with me, came into our English class with a rifle and shot and killed our teacher in front of us.\u00a0 Obviously it was very traumatic. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact that was in the late \u201870\u2019s \u2013 it was kind of unheard of in America. It was a hugely sensational story, but I really struggled through that. I was incredibly fearful and it impacted my relationship with God in an immense way as you can imagine.\u00a0 I was around people who were telling me I was going to be okay, and so I believed that I was going to be okay!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 Now are you talking about Christians just using God speak?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Sure!\u00a0 Sometimes yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>They did the best they could.\u00a0 Her parents, everybody did as best they could!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes \u2013 I mean looking back it was incredibly traumatic, it had really not happened. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>How do you deal with a school shooting in 1976 or 77 \u2013 whatever it was? You don\u2019t!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie: <\/strong>Right!\u00a0 What happened is, I kind of grieved for a little bit: couple months, and then I pushed on with life.\u00a0 Something pretty significant happened in me \u2013 I loved God, but I didn\u2019t trust Him!\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo what happened is I was a good Christian girl and I kept doing all the good Christian stuff and I loved God \u2013 I truly, really loved Him, but I felt like He walked out of the room on me, and it created a lot of distress for me because I felt like He could have kept it from happening.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I didn\u2019t get how He could be a loving God who says, \u201cYou know what, I have good plans for your life, because I really didn\u2019t feel like that was a good plan at all\u201d!\u00a0 He really healed me up pretty quickly which was amazing.\u00a0 It was really through a Mom\u2019s group that I was in.\u00a0 I was meeting with Mom\u2019s and praying with them.\u00a0 Not about that, but that is where it all came out in a safe place.\u00a0 My wellness affected Will, and then he ended up having to deal with some stuff that he had really not dealt with for a very long time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>In those darkest days of your marriage describe for me what it was like?\u00a0 Were the two of you just not talking; were you angry with one another, throwing stuff at each other?\u00a0 What was going on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You know honestly when I look back on it now Bob, I think that really we were slowly growing distant. It wasn\u2019t that we were slamming doors, and hitting into things.\u00a0 Remember you know, pastor and pastor\u2019s wife \u2013 we weren\u2019t doing all that.\u00a0 Not that it can\u2019t happen but maybe for some reason because of that we didn\u2019t handle it that way.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just slowly grew cold towards Will, and I think that some of it was about that I was putting my trust in the wrong place.\u00a0 Some of it was about that he needed to get healed up about stuff. Of course, I was really busy with the kids.\u00a0 They took a ton of time and energy \u2013 they were all like seven and under, so if I wasn\u2019t having a baby, I was nursing a baby or taking care of babies. There was just a lot going on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>In the meantime you are busy with the church and everything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>School, church, the fa\u00e7ade on my end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>So, you are not even aware necessarily that this drift is occurring \u2013 it\u2019s just kind of one of those busy seasons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>If I was aware, I was not equipped emotionally to deal with it.\u00a0\u00a0 I didn\u2019t have the tools in my resource kit to do anything about it.\u00a0 I was even more emotionally challenged than my wife was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019ve indicated that there was something in your bags you hadn\u2019t unpacked. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I brought a lot of them into the marriage!\u00a0 We were too young when we got married probably.\u00a0 I loved Christ \u2013 the call to ministry and Christ was passionate but I had a pretty long season of anger toward my parents and what I call my black cauldron.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can envision this big brewing black cauldron in my spirit. It was emotional hurt and pain, anger, unforgiveness and junk.\u00a0 I didn\u2019t tell my Mom I loved her for 20 years, and didn\u2019t know how to do intimacy and authenticity at all.\u00a0 So, I was faking it with Susie.\u00a0 I was faking it in my small group.\u00a0 Faking it with God!\u00a0\u00a0 He busted that up big time! Susie\u2019s healing launched it for me.\u00a0 When Susie got healed, the ripple effect of that kind of stirred me up and that started about a three-year process for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>She got real and in the process demonstrated to you what that looked like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>She did \u2013 scared the bejeebers out of me! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I would think it would!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>What are you doing? No \u2013 no \u2013 no real please!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019d been married for how many years at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Oh gosh \u2013 almost ten. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Do you remember when she sat you down or pulled you aside and said, \u201cWe have to talk?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I remember the night that we were talking about it before, and we stayed up until 3 a.m. and she started venting and all this stuff came out.\u00a0 Then she looked at me and said, \u201cHow come nothing bad has ever happened to you?\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201c I haven\u2019t told my Mom I loved her since I was like in eighth grade.\u201d\u00a0 That conversation started it. It was pretty crazy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>If that was the starting point to go from this drift toward isolation to start moving you back toward real intimacy in marriage, what did that journey look like, and how long did it take? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie: <\/strong>Well, you know it\u2019s funny is when I got real with me, it\u2019s like a paradox \u2013 it\u2019s strangely liberating, but you feel so ugly.\u00a0 It\u2019s easier to be the good Christian girl, or a pastor\u2019s wife or say the right things, so you\u2019re so free, and yet you feel so naked and ugly.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I think about it now looking back I think it was kind of a push and a pull kind of thing.\u00a0 We pulled together because we were both so grateful and so free, and then we say, \u201cEw \u2013 yuck, you know and point fingers at each other and accuse each other.\u00a0 It was kind of an in and out kind of thing until we finally got to a place really where we were both healthy enough.\u00a0 We went through marriage counseling which I think is an important thing to do if you are stuck in that phase of kind of that in and out where you are not walking every day and having positive kinds of experiences.\u00a0 You need to seek help!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Did that feel threatening and embarrassing to you to go sit with a marriage counselor as a seminary student?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Oh yes: Seminary student, pastor, and the whole thing.\u00a0 There was one time we were in the office and the counselor had us wait in a different room because church members were out in the lobby coming in to see him.\u00a0 We were like we can\u2019t be public about this yet.\u00a0 Plus it\u2019s just I\u2019m okay \u2013 I don\u2019t have problems, and so I don\u2019t need to see a Christian counselor.\u00a0 He\u2019s my best friend now \u2013 he\u2019s my accountability partner, but I was afraid to go into his office because that\u2019s where really sick, weird people went.\u00a0\u00a0 I send people to him; I don\u2019t go to him personally!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter) \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Even though you knew you hadn\u2019t told your Mom you loved her in 20 years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I thought it was okay Dennis. I didn\u2019t think there was anything wrong with it. I just thought that\u2019s how it was. I had not done the math. I wasn\u2019t a very bright guy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s just being honest \u2013 I was missing a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I don\u2019t think it has anything to do with being bright. I think it\u2019s getting stuck. We get stuck as human beings, and we don\u2019t know we\u2019re in a ditch!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I was stuck!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u00a0 It takes a wife who gets out of the ditch herself, and says, \u201cHey \u2013 it\u2019s liberating out here \u2013 come join me!\u201d\u00a0 A lot of people face their fears; they think give me the comfort of the ditch!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I was a legalist off the charts, and the way this affected my theology was I was a rule keeper, and a rule preacher. T he problem was what I was imposing on people, I wasn\u2019t doing.\u00a0 I was the best Pharisee that ever lived, and this healing process included the whole awakening of grace for me.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s one of the best things of this story: my world is I discovered grace, and what unconditional love looks like. That, I think gave me the courage to start leaning into this healing process. I really was loved for free; I was going to be okay anyway we went. When I discovered grace it started the process for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, did you go to your Mom?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes, I did. I\u2019m getting goose bumps \u2013 that\u2019s a great story.\u00a0 We sat down in the counselor\u2019s office and I had just some can I come to Jesus conversation.\u00a0 She didn\u2019t do anything wrong, it was all my sin and my awareness.\u00a0 She did the best she could!\u00a0 We sat down in the counselor\u2019s office: my Mom and my Dad and I got off my chest about six hours of session. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA week later she almost died, and spent three months in ICU in a coma, which I of course thought I had caused because I had told her all this stuff.\u00a0 She had septicemia and almost died.\u00a0 I was able to love on her and hold her hand and tell her I love her, and be by her bedside with great sincerity. A week before I hadn\u2019t been able to do that. So the timing was amazing! She\u2019s in a nursing home today, we\u2019re buds.\u00a0 I tell her I love her.\u00a0 I call her.\u00a0 We tease each other, it\u2019s one of the greatest healing stories I\u2019ve seen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>So, you discovered grace and mercy \u2013 when did you ask her to forgive you for the cauldron, the black cauldron?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>That day in my office.\u00a0 Yes! What\u2019s funny is she didn\u2019t know I was mad at her!\u00a0 I said, \u201cI\u2019ve been holding a grudge against you\u201d, and she said, \u201cReally \u2013 I had no idea\u201d!\u00a0 I said \u201cWhat good is a grudge if you didn\u2019t know I was mad at you?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt wasn\u2019t helping anybody, it was just making me sick \u2013 at least she should have been suffering for it \u2013 right? She didn\u2019t! She wasn\u2019t, and I said, I\u2019m so sorry!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You\u2019re the one that was suffering.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I was the jerk! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>You know, as you guys were telling your story, I\u2019ve been thinking of two things \u2013 Dennis. I\u2019ve been thinking of the first two chapters of the book that you and Barbara wrote years ago \u2013 <em>Building Your Mates Self Esteem.<\/em> The phantom pictures we try to live up to in marriage and the bags that we bring in, and the past, and how that affects our marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou guys go into a lot of detail of talking about how you have to deal with that in marriage. Then, I\u2019ve been thinking about what we talk about at the Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference: this drift toward isolation that occurs in every marriage unless you\u2019re intentional. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, and I was thinking about a third thing, and that was the book about honoring your parents, which is called <em>The Best Gift You\u2019ll Ever Give Your Parents.<\/em> Will, it talks about ultimately moving towards honoring your parents, which is the fifth commandment which has a promise associated with it.\u00a0 What I\u2019ve found in not only doing that myself, and getting some things off my chest with my parents, but in honoring them you have to move through forgiveness, and you have to learn what it means to love them and to honor them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think when we come into marriage; we don\u2019t realize how those past relationships like this impact the present.\u00a0 They impacted your marriage; they undoubtedly impacted your relationship with your children.\u00a0 If you can\u2019t trust God, and you can\u2019t trust each other what\u2019s that marriage going to look like?\u00a0 What are those kids going to pick up about what a real relationship looks like?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, what we have to realize as human beings is we are all broken, all in need of grace, all in need of mercy, all in need of forgiveness, and there\u2019s no better place than a marriage relationship to demonstrate this: the bridegroom and the bride.\u00a0 Here we are in marriage, and what we have to learn is we have to forgive.\u00a0\u00a0 We have to pursue. We have to love.\u00a0 We have to grant mercy, and we have to do that repeatedly.\u00a0 It\u2019s not a matter of doing it once and it\u2019s been done \u2013 it\u2019s a matter of over, and over, and over again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s back to what you talk about in your book: <em>Loving Your Man Without Losing Your Mind. <\/em>It took you ten years to find out he wasn\u2019t imperfect.\u00a0 You don\u2019t think that today, I\u2019m sure!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>She thinks I\u2019m perfect today!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Does she?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>No!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>She pretty much knows I\u2019m perfect, because I am!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>He\u2019s the perfect person for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>There you go!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0 That\u2019s the right answer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie: <\/strong>I mean that from the bottom of my heart.\u00a0 The reason why is: I\u2019ve told women when I speak with them - because really marriage is a ministry.\u00a0 You need to see it as a ministry. Sometimes you wake up and you don\u2019t feel like ministering to that person. It would be easier to go feed people under the bridge at 5:00 in the morning.\u00a0 You know, it would be a lot easier! But, marriage is a ministry!\u00a0 The thing about ministry is that you learn so much about yourself, and you draw close to God when you serve someone else.\u00a0 I think that Will, has done more than any living human to make me more like God. I really do!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think marriage was designed by God to redeem us from ourselves!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Will:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Amen!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>There is no way you can love as intimately as you are called to love one another in such close proximity as a husband and a wife and see one another\u2019s flaws and weaknesses, and disappoint each other.\u00a0 The only way you can do that I think is by ultimately surrendering to Christ, yielding your will to Him, and saying, \u201cLord thank you for forgiving me, now make me a vessel of forgiveness, grace and mercy for my husband \u2013 for my wife\u201d.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Susie:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0 <\/strong>I think one of the things that you point out here, and it\u2019s something you point out in your book, and it\u2019s something we talk about at our FamilyLife Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences.\u00a0 If a husband and wife want to grow together they first have to make sure that their relationship with God is a growing relationship.\u00a0 You get your relationship with God right, and you get growing with Him and that has a profound impact on your marriage relationship.\u00a0 If your relationship with God is not right, that\u2019s going to have a profound impact on your marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0When we sit down with couples at our Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences we talk about very practical issues like communication and sexual intimacy.\u00a0 We talk about what a husband\u2019s responsibility is, what a wife\u2019s responsibility is in a marriage relationship.\u00a0 We unpack what the Bible has to say about all of these things.\u00a0 At the core of it all, is your relationship with God and whether that is where it ought to be?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I just want to once again encourage our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners to contact us this week or next week, and make plans to attend one of these upcoming FamilyLife Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences.\u00a0 We are going to be hosting more than 50 of these conferences in cities all across the country this fall.\u00a0 When you register for an upcoming conference when it comes to a city near where you live.\u00a0 You and your spouse register at the regular price, and we are going to give you a second registration for free.\u00a0 Something you can pass along to your kids, something you can pass along to somebody you know at church: you and another couple can get together and split the difference if you want to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0However you want to do it, but it\u2019s a buy one get one free offer for the Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference and it\u2019s good only this week and next week. If you want to take advantage of it you need to call 1-800-FLTODAY and say, \u201cI want to sign up for a Weekend to Remember.\u00a0 I heard Bob talking about it on the radio \u2013 mention my name. Say, \u201cI heard Bob talking about it on the radio\u201d, and that way they will know you are a <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listener, and you will be eligible for this special rate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr, you can go on-line at FamilyLifeToday.com\u00a0 - you can register for an upcoming conference on-line: there\u2019s a promotion code box on the registration form\u00a0 - just type my name in the promo code box \u2013 just type \u201cBob\u201d in there, and automatically when you register at the regular rate you will get a second registration absolutely free. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, if you have any questions call 1-800-FLTODAY, or go on-line at FamilyLifeToday.com. All the information you need is available there.\u00a0 We hope you will make plans to attend an up-coming Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe fall season kicks off here in a few weeks.\u00a0 I know it still feels like it\u2019s the middle of summer, but now is the time to be making plans to attend a fun, romantic get-a-way for couples at a FamilyLife Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me also mention when you are on our web site FamilyLifeToday.com get a copy of Susie Davis\u2019s book <em>Loving Your Man Without Losing Your Mind<\/em>.\u00a0 Again there is more information about the book available at FamilyLifeToday.com or you can order on-line if you like and we will make sure that we get a copy of this book sent out to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, Will and Susie are going to be back with us tomorrow.\u00a0 We are going to talk more about some of the lessons they\u2019ve learned in their marriage about one another, about their relationship with God.\u00a0 I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today Keith Lynch and our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our host Dennis Rainey I\u2019m Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelp for today.\u00a0 Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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