{"id":301811,"date":"2009-04-21T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2009-04-21T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/what-causes-affairs\/"},"modified":"2009-04-21T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2009-04-21T15:00:00","slug":"what-causes-affairs","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-causes-affairs\/","title":{"rendered":"What Causes Affairs?"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Why do affairs happen in the first place?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2009-04-21.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"10.23M","filesize_raw":"10726666","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2903],"tags":[5062,4377,4874],"podcast_series":[7642],"cwp_profile":[3383],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301811","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-infidelity","tag-adultery","tag-affair","tag-infidelity","podcast_series-torn-asunder","cwp_profile-dave-carder","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301811\/what-causes-affairs","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301811\/what-causes-affairs","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"r0BcmtHRJR\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-causes-affairs\/\">What Causes Affairs?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/what-causes-affairs\/embed\/#?secret=r0BcmtHRJR\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;What Causes Affairs?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"r0BcmtHRJR\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var 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to walk around with this guilt all the rest of your life, and this is so unpleasant \u2013 nobody really wants this to happen to them.\u00a0 The fallout of an affair is worse than atomic history.\u00a0 It just destroys everything \u2013 so forewarned is forearmed \u2013 you build better boundaries, more secure protection around yourself and your marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, April 21st.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Are there some specific things a couple can do to affair-proof a marriage?\u00a0 We're going to talk about that today \u2013 stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition.\u00a0 We are talking about a very sober subject this week, and, really, it's part of the reason why we are encouraging our FamilyLife Today listeners to consider going to one of our Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences.\u00a0 We have already had thousands of couples attend a conference this spring, and we still have two or three dozen conferences taking place in the rest of this month, in May and in June, and we've heard from enough of our listeners who have said, \"You know, we've thought about going to a conference,\" but who have never signed up.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe decided it was time to kick it into high gear.\u00a0 So if you register for a conference between now and the end of the month, and you identify yourself as a FamilyLife Today listener, here is what we're going to do \u2013 when you register and pay the regular registration fee, we're going to give you a second registration for free.\u00a0 That means you pay your own way, and your spouse comes along with you at no cost \u2013 absolutely free.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, this offer is only good until the end of the month, and you need to let us know that you are a FamilyLife Today listener in order to take advantage of the offer.\u00a0 So if you want to register, go online at FamilyLifeToday.com, and as you fill out the registration form, in the keycode box, just type in the word \"Bob,\" so that they know that you are one of our listeners, and we'll make sure that you get the special offer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr call 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 If you have any questions, we can answer them for you.\u00a0 We can get you registered over the phone.\u00a0 Just make sure you let them know you listen to FamilyLife Today and that you want to take advantage of the special offer and make sure you get in touch with us ASAP because the offer is only good until the end of the month and, in some locations, we're having to go ahead and close things down because we're sold out.\u00a0 Let us hear from you as soon as possible and plan to join us for a Weekend to Remember.\u00a0 It's a great weekend \u2013 fun, romantic, a great getaway for couples and right now with the special offer, it's unbeatable.\u00a0 Buy one registration, the second one is free.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRegister online at FamilyLifeToday.com or call us at 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.\u00a0 And, really, as I said, this ties into what we want to talk about today.\u00a0 I don't know what the statistics are, but it sure seems to me like I am hearing more and more about infidelity in marriage than I have ever heard at any point in our nation's history.\u00a0 I don't know about the history of the world, but I can't imagine that there has ever been a time when there has been as much infidelity as we seem to be hearing about today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Bob, if you just take, maybe, dozen years, 15 years, and reflect back on how attitudes have changed and just the prevalence of this \u2013 I don't have the data in front of me, but I know what it feels like.\u00a0 It feels like something has dramatically changed in the cultural landscape even within the Christian community.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, Barbara and I were just talking about this.\u00a0 I asked her the same question, and she said, \"Absolutely.\"\u00a0 She said, \"I believe today the reason affairs are occurring is because the purpose for marriage has switched.\"\u00a0 She said, \"Marriage today is for me.\"\u00a0 A generation ago, it was for security.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, we still had some sense that it wasn't just all about me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That's right \u2013 it was for security, it was for survival \u2013 people coming together as a couple to make things happen.\u00a0 Today it is really focused on my needs, what I want, my happiness, and the number of believers who have told me that they are stepping out of their marriage to marry a person they have had an affair with because they are unhappy at home, and they want to have their needs met with this other person.\u00a0 Well, it's a legion of people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and, of course, the culture has taken it from being shameful behavior to being celebrated behavior.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, all this week we're looking at the subject of extramarital affairs and helping people stay out of them; help people recover from them; and provide hope and healing, and Dave Carder joins us for a second day.\u00a0 Dave, welcome back to FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Thanks a lot, I look forward to it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Do you agree with what we're saying here?\u00a0 Do you think affairs are more prevalent today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes, I really do.\u00a0 Women will eat whenever they're depressed and discouraged, but men will always get involved in sexual activity of some sort.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But they're getting involved in sexual activity with women, so it's not like it's all the men who are off doing this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well,\u00a0 [unintelligible] going is in a relationship that's sexual, erotic, et cetera, it's huge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There really is something that happens to the adrenalin or chemically in the body \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2026 oh, it does \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2026 when you're attracted to another person?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It's a real stress-reducer, it's an anger-reliever, it's a sense of fulfillment, a sense of belonging, a sense of attachment, and we're going to see more of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know this firsthand from your ministry at First Evangelical Free Church in Fullerton, California, and you have written a book called \"Torn Asunder,\" and we've featured this book over the past few years.\u00a0 A number of times you've updated this, revised it, and I believe it is the finest book to keep people out of affairs and to help people recover from an affair, and I just commend you for writing it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave, as a look at affairs, what would you say are the primary causes of an affair occurring?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, let's look at environment first.\u00a0 One of the things we say about an affair is it's built on a three-legged stool.\u00a0 There has to be a willing partner, there has to be a prepared infidel, because I've never met anybody who planned on having an affair, at least in Christian circles.\u00a0 And there has to be the component of secrecy.\u00a0 So this guy or that gal is really more prepared than they recognize, but if secrecy or a willing partner is not available, an affair will not happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You used the word \"infidel.\"\u00a0 Now, that's an interesting word.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, I believe that.\u00a0 This guy is breaking a contract.\u00a0 He is not practicing integrity, or she is violating her vows.\u00a0 I think infidelity is a good word.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So the covenant is being violated.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is, and that also is why I think disclosure is very important, because when you break a contract with somebody, the other partner in the contract has a right to know that you broke it and has a right to choose if they want to come back into it with you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So you're saying if you've had an affair \u2013 because people will ask the question all the time, you know, \"My wife doesn't know about it.\u00a0 It was five years ago, I never told her anything.\u00a0 Do I bring it up?\"\u00a0 You're saying yes?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, absolutely.\u00a0 You broke a contact, you made a promise, and no forgiveness can take place until confession occurs.\u00a0 So you're going to walk around with this guilt all the rest of your life, and your marriage will never make improvements because the two of you can't talk about what drove this affair.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We're going to want to talk about that whole issue later as we talk about how you work your way back from an affair, but this three-legged stool you're talking about, where you have a willing partner, an infidel, and secrecy.\u00a0 How do you get prepared for an affair without realizing it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, this preparation concept sometimes surprises individuals, but we talk about it in four different levels.\u00a0 First of all, what kind of history you bring to your marriage.\u00a0 If you come out of a blended family history, for instance, you're more likely.\u00a0 If you have a sexual abuse history, you're more likely.\u00a0 If you have an attention deficit disorder or other kind of learning disability, you're more likely to act out.\u00a0 If you have a history of poor impulse control, you are more likely to do this kind of thing.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo then you go to family history.\u00a0 If it has occurred in your history of your family, your parents practiced infidelity, you're more likely to do it.\u00a0 If you come out of a blended or divorced family, you are more likely to act out.\u00a0 So we know those factors are involved in that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then you plug in your personal history \u2013 promiscuity in adolescence, you're more likely to act out like this.\u00a0 And then, finally, we take the two years prior to the actual onset of the infidelity, and we look for certain things that drove the affair; certain things that brought together a critical mass at which point we say an affair was inevitable, it's just a matter of when, not if, it would happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What kinds of things?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Things like life transitions.\u00a0 Pregnancy is a huge one.\u00a0 Guys get involved in affairs all the time when wives are pregnant; a major loss, like a death; or a loss of health; or loss of career.\u00a0 I think a great illustration of this is Judah in the Old Testament.\u00a0 He buried his wife \u2013 she died \u2013\u00a0 he buried his wife, 30 days he grieved for her, walks out to check on the sheep, has sex with Tamar, his daughter-in-law.\u00a0 All those life experiences are critical.\u00a0 I think also the marriage itself oftentimes hits a point where there is a \u2013 everybody seems consumed with everything but us \u2013 kids are consuming time and money, and career is consuming the husband, and you just bring all these critical factors together, and it's huge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So I'm a Christian today.\u00a0 I grew up in a broken home.\u00a0 My dad was unfaithful to my mom \u2013 that's what led to them getting a divorce.\u00a0 We got into a blended family.\u00a0 I was sexually active before I came to Christ during my teenage years, and I also was involved in binge drinking during college.\u00a0 You're saying that that kind of a background puts me more at risk to an affair than somebody who grew up in a Christian home, mom and dad were together, and they didn't go out partying during college.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Exactly what I'm saying.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And one thing we want to point out here \u2013 the person who is sitting there, and as Bob was checking those off, you're going, \"Yeah, that's me, and that's me, and that's me \u2013 oh, well, it's no wonder.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It's inevitable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, we live in such a victimized age, of where people feel justified because they've been damaged \u2013 \"Well, no wonder I feel this way, I'll just go ahead and give in.\"\u00a0 We're not saying that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, forewarned is forearmed.\u00a0 You build better boundaries, more secure protection around yourself and your marriage.\u00a0 Now, actually we \u2013 I know exactly what you're saying, and lots of people might respond that way \u2013 \"Well, now, I am at greater risk.\"\u00a0 But this is so unpleasant, nobody really wants this to happen to them.\u00a0 The fallout of an affair is worse than atomic history.\u00a0 It just destroys everything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I want to tell you, if you've ever confronted someone who has been in an affair, there is a look in the eyes, Dave, that, obviously, you\u2019ve seen because this has been a part of your ministry for the past couple of decades.\u00a0 There is a look of death, of guilt, of shame, and, in fact, a part of your ministry is helping those who are being tempted toward an affair, understand what they're about to give up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You'll never get over it.\u00a0 The children in that situation will not let you get over it.\u00a0 The ex-wife or ex-husband in that situation won't let you get over it, the courts won't let you get over it.\u00a0 Everywhere, you are constantly reminded of the infidelity if you leave this marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> If you look at Proverbs, the one time it talks about the impact of an affair, what does it compare it to \u2013 like taking fire and putting it into your bosom.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I want to make a statement here, and I want both of you to see if you agree with the statement I'm about to make \u2013 Matthew, chapter 19, when Jesus was asked about the subject of divorce, He brings up this exception that people have referenced, and the exception is except for the case of infidelity \u2013 pornea \u2013 sexual sin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, my understanding of that is not if someone has had an affair, the magic button has been pushed and now divorce is somehow something that God smiles on.\u00a0 But instead, what Jesus was trying to say is if you have what you described yesterday as a Class III sexual addict who is perpetually involved, unrepentantly involved in ongoing adultery, and you need protection.\u00a0 In that case God, because of the hardness of heart, will allow for protection through a divorce.\u00a0 But, Dave, I hear so many people who say, \"Well, I have biblical grounds because you cheated,\" and I don't think that's what the Bible is saying \u2013 just because there has been unfaithfulness in a marriage that that automatically gives you de facto biblical grounds to go ahead and divorce your spouse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would agree with that.\u00a0 I would also say that the two grounds that most people recognize for divorce are usually present in lots of infidelity \u2013 abandonment and the infidelity \u2013 the spouse leaves, runs off with somebody else, and so that's kind of a dual whammy, so to speak.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> But the marriage relationship is a covenant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And it is a commitment, and the reason \u2013 Bob, you and I have interacted on this many, many times \u2013 the reason I could never counsel someone to sever the relationship and end it in divorce, even if there were biblical grounds for doing that, is I would always lead them toward restoration and redemption.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They may need protection in the process \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes, that's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They may need a time of separation, but the biblical goal always ought to be restoration and reconciliation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If you don't work through the marriage first, you will drag all the unfinished business from this marriage into the second relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And, I'll tell you, you'll pay for it forever.\u00a0 So one of the first steps in a healing restoration process is to go back to lead the other person out of the picture, be sober, if you will, and work on this marriage for a period of time before you decide what you're going to do in the future.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Dave, let me tell you a story of something that I will never forget as long as I live.\u00a0 I got a call from my pastor one day \u2013 this was in another city, and someone in our church, and I'll call him \"Doug.\"\u00a0 He said, \"Doug just came to me and confessed that he has had an affair with someone at work.\u00a0 Doug was the manager of a health club.\u00a0 It was one of those things where I was shocked, but when you looked at the environment you understood.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, Doug had just come and confessed this, and he had not told his wife yet what had happened.\u00a0 He had come to the pastor and said, \"I don't want this,\" and we talked about a strategy, how we were going to address this with Doug; how we were going to address it with his wife; how we were going to help them try to put their marriage back together in the midst of this.\u00a0 But I'll never forget my pastor looking at me, and he's saying \"You know what?\u00a0 No sex is that good.\"\u00a0 He said, \"No sex is as good as the pain Doug is about to walk through for years.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I've reflected back on that over and over again, and I've thought, \"If anyone was thinking, they would never have an affair.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, I agree.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This isn't about anything we think beyond the next 15 minutes on, is it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, it's not, and it's terribly depressive, even if you decide to run off with the other person just because it lingers like a cloud over your life constantly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I had a conversation last night about a ministry leader who lost his ministry \u2013 a very prominent personality, and I'll not get any more specific than that.\u00a0 But he divorced his wife of more than 30 years, he had four children \u2013 he left it all, and today he remarried the woman he had the affair with, and they are living in, like, an 800-square-foot house and supposedly in \"bliss\" saying, \"This was the woman God had for me all along.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, I tell couples all the time, \"At least in America, there are not arranged marriages, and you weren't psychotic when you chose each other, although you might swear you must have been at certain times later on in the marriage, but the point is you need to work through the reasons you made the choices to choose each other and what you saw in each other that first attracted you to one another.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd as you work through that stuff, then you will rekindle some of that love and affection.\u00a0 Here is what we say \u2013 if you can find 20 percent of your marital history at level 4 or 5 on a 1 to 5 scale, 5 being high, you have better than a 93-percent chance of making your marriage better than it's ever been in two years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Now, say that again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay.\u00a0 If you would draw out your marriage, a little marital satisfaction timeline across the history of your marriage \u2013 it's in the workbook there \u2013 and if 20 percent of your marriage seen by both of you is at level 4 or 5, 20 percent \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2026 just 20 percent?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Just 20 percent \u2013 you have better than a 93-percent chance of saying in two years your marriage is better than you ever thought it could be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you have talked to literally hundreds of couples \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Ah, thousands.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Who can testify to the fact \u2013 they'll look back, and they'll say, \"I thought there was no way I could ever live with this person again after the pain, after what was inflicted.\u00a0 And now they say, \"This is better than I ever imagined it could be.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That's right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> The problem is they look at the 80 percent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That they're not satisfied with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And the 80 percent is usually just prior to the affair.\u00a0 It's the easiest part of the marriage to remember.\u00a0 Usually, the 20 percent, the good stuff, is before the children arrive or early in the marriage when it was just the two of them trying to hammer out life and make it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What you're really talking about here is another cause of an affair, which you refer to in your book as \"marital styles.\"\u00a0 And you say that if we have certain patterns in our marriage, this is going to make us more vulnerable toward an affair, and so if we're focusing on the 80 percent, and the 80 percent becomes 100 percent now, all of a sudden, we justify an attraction to another person.\u00a0 It makes us feel like, \"Well, I'm getting nothing at home, because she's a zero.\"\u00a0 \"He's a zero.\u00a0 He's passive.\u00a0 He doesn't meet my needs.\u00a0 I'm not happy.\u00a0 This person makes me feel special.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, they do make them feel special.\u00a0 It's like a junior high crush.\u00a0 Remember what it was like?\u00a0 It was irrational, but you couldn't stop your heart from beating fast and perspiring in that older person's presence, but you were crazy about them, even though they could care less about you.\u00a0 So it's very much a junior high, adolescent crush experience when an affair begins to happen initially.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You're comparing adults with the irrational \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> With a 13-year-old.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Now, I want our listeners to hear this because you're a counselor, you've watched them march into your office.\u00a0 You're saying that people that go have an affair are acting like teenagers?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, you go to the mall.\u00a0 I promise you, here is a clue \u2013 you can find people having an affair.\u00a0 Go to the mall, sit in the parking lot \u2013 if you see two people talk in the parking lot, and then they part, then they come back together and talk some more, then they part, then they come \u2013 they're having an affair, because couples \u2013 husbands and wives never do that.\u00a0 They know they will see their spouse that night, and they can talk about that stuff then.\u00a0 But this inability to part, this inability to separate is just like junior high kids.\u00a0 It's huge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Unbelievable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, Bob, I'm frustrated here, because I know how much good stuff is in this book, \"Torn Asunder.\"\u00a0 Dave, you have a \"Personal Patterns for Predicting Infidelity.\"\u00a0 It's not a test, but it's a questionnaire of more than 20 \u2013 well, it's 28 questions that you can actually go through, and what we're going to do is, we're going to put this on our website because one of the purposes of our broadcast is to preserve and protect marriages, and I believe there are people right now who are listening to my voice.\u00a0 They've been riveted to what you've said, Dave.\u00a0 They need to go look at this test, this questionnaire, and they need to go take it on the Internet and evaluate where they are emotionally and, most importantly, where their hearts are spiritually.\u00a0 An affair begins as a matter of the heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yeah, and we would encourage couples to go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 There is a link there to the questionnaire that Dennis is talking about, and you can just see if you're in the danger zone or if there are warning signs you ought to be alert to.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com, and while you're on our website, let me remind you about the special offer we are making this week to FamilyLife Today listeners.\u00a0 We are trying to encourage all of our listeners to attend an upcoming Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference when it comes to a city near where you live and, as a result of that, we are making this special offer.\u00a0 You sign up today to attend one of the upcoming conferences, and you pay the regular registration fee for one of you, we'll pay the registration fee for your spouse.\u00a0 So you pay one registration, the other one is free.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, to qualify for that, you need to identify yourself as a FamilyLife Today listener, which means if you're filling out your registration form for a Weekend to Remember on our website, FamilyLife Today.com, you will want to write my name, \"Bob,\" in the keycode box on the registration form, or if it's easier, call 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 We can get your registered for a conference over the phone.\u00a0 We can answer any questions you have about the Weekend to Remember, and if you identify yourself as a FamilyLife Today listener, you buy one registration, and the second registration is free. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo \u2013 call us at 1-800-FLTODAY or register online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 And keep in mind that we have copies of Dave Carder's book, \"Torn Asunder,\" in our FamilyLife Resource Center along with companion workbook that he has put together for couples who are working their way back from the explosion of an extramarital affair.\u00a0 Our website, again, is FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 You can order the book from us online, or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY and order the book over the phone.\u00a0 You may want to get this book and pass it along to a couple you know that has experienced the reality of infidelity in their marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, it's called \"Torn Asunder,\" and details about the book are on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we want to talk about how you draw boundaries around relationships outside of marriage.\u00a0 How do you do that in a way that you can still have a relationship, but it doesn't cross whatever that line is, and it keeps you safe from the possibility of an affair.\u00a0 Dave Carder joins us back again tomorrow, I hope you can join us as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas \u2013 help for today; hope for tomorrow.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/site\/c.dnJHKLNnFoG\/b.3782043\/k.384D\/Support_Us.htm\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 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