{"id":301806,"date":"2009-04-14T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2009-04-14T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/shame-the-great-cover-up\/"},"modified":"2009-04-14T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2009-04-14T15:00:00","slug":"shame-the-great-cover-up","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/shame-the-great-cover-up\/","title":{"rendered":"Shame:  The Great Cover-Up"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Is there anything on earth that can\u2019t become an addiction?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2009-04-14.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"14.35M","filesize_raw":"15042644","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2840],"tags":[2872,2385],"podcast_series":[7641],"cwp_profile":[9004],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301806","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-addiction","tag-addiction","tag-shame","podcast_series-at-the-crossroads-on-addictions","cwp_profile-ed-welch","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301806\/shame-the-great-cover-up","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301806\/shame-the-great-cover-up","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Vo5jkuCyBe\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/shame-the-great-cover-up\/\">Shame:  The Great Cover-Up<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/shame-the-great-cover-up\/embed\/#?secret=Vo5jkuCyBe\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Shame:  The Great Cover-Up&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Vo5jkuCyBe\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2009-04-14.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2009-04-14.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is Bob Lepine from FamilyLife Today, and before we start today's program, we need to have a word with our listeners, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We do.\u00a0 You know, our mission here at FamilyLife is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We want to see every home become a godly home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That's exactly right, Bob.\u00a0 But to do that, I need our listeners' help, that's all there is to it.\u00a0 The current financial crisis has resulted in us being about $1 million down in donations from where we were this time last year, and that's a hard number for us.\u00a0 In response to that, we've taken appropriate action.\u00a0 We've had a couple of layoffs here at FamilyLife, 14% of our staff no longer work here.\u00a0 We've had pay cuts, and we're doing what we can do to make ends meet.\u00a0 But to bridge the gap, I need your help as a listener.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so I am coming to you as a friend, one who has met with you every day maybe around this time for a number of months or perhaps years, and I'm just saying, as your friend, I'd like you to help.\u00a0 Do what you can do, and maybe open your checkbook and give a gift to FamilyLife if God so moves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wouldn't want your church to suffer because of that giving.\u00a0 We believe giving needs to start there, but this would sure be timely, if you could join with us right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You can make a gift online at FamilyLifeToday.com or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 That's 1-800-358-6329, 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and we hope to hear from you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That's right, and I just want to say thanks in advance.\u00a0 I meet you all around the country. You come up and tell me you listening to our broadcast, and you share how your life has been touched and changed in your marriage and your family and your kids and, I want to tell you, it's a privilege to be here on FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[musical transition] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And welcome to FamilyLife Today, our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 You know, I've already asked our guest this week, Ed Welch, about any addictions that he struggles with.\u00a0 So I'm going to ask you \u2013 do you think there are addictions in your life, things that you crave that get control of you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, I would have denied that 10 years ago, but as I've gotten older and watched the patterns of my life, I can vegetate in front of the television and develop flat brain waves, and, in my opinion, can become an escape from reality.\u00a0 It can numb the exhaustion of a hard day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me ask Ed about that \u2013 is it possible to have an addiction to cable television?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> To cable, in particular?\u00a0 Certainly not cable, but regular network TV, absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What Dennis describing, a guy who comes home and says, \"I just want to sit down and relax and unwind a little bit, and he turns on the TV and surfs for a couple of hours.\u00a0 That doesn't sound so bad, is it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> Little mini-Sabbaths, I mean, we can certainly justify those things, and there is no doubt \u2013 I'm sure there are times where you need those mini-Sabbaths.\u00a0 Perhaps one of the ways we can detect it is when somebody comes and interferes with your show, how do you respond?\u00a0 When they interfere with your flatlining, do you find yourself grumbling and complaining?\u00a0 That's when you can begin to see it exposed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When your wife has a need that needs to be addressed \u2013 do you see the look on his face as I'm talking about this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, I've turned it off on more than one occasion, because Barbara will start to talk and finally she goes, \"I want to talk,\" and being interpreted, \"Will you turn that thing off so we can have a conversation?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Are you annoyed when that happens?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Sometimes, you know, it really matters what's on TV because it's usually a sporting event and if \u2013 there was one the other night \u2013 I kept looking over her shoulder, and that was not a good thing, that was not a good thing, and I forget what it was, but it was near the end of the game and it was, you know, it was just one of those moments, as a man, you had to finish it, you had to know how it turned out.\u00a0 But Barbara didn't buy that.\u00a0 She did not buy that at all, so I pushed the \"record\" button \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Went back and checked it out later.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And check it out later.\u00a0 I feel like our listeners need to know who our guest is on FamilyLife Today \u2013 Ed Welch is a professor of Practical Theology and Westminster Theological Seminary.\u00a0 He and his wife, Sherry, have two daughters, two grandchildren.\u00a0 He has authored a number of books, and he's come up with a couple of workbooks.\u00a0 One for a facilitator and the other for a student called \"Crossroads, A Step-by-Step Guide Away from Addiction.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And, Ed, you wrote a book a number of years ago called \"Addictions, A Banquet in the Grave.\"\u00a0 These workbooks are kind of the practical outworking of that book, is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> Yes, the initial book, \"The Banquet in the Grave,\" the people in mind were colleagues, were people who were going to be walking along with other addicts.\u00a0 For these particular workbooks, it's just flooded with friends and relatives and family who are actually in the addictions.\u00a0 That's why I was so zealous to be able to write this one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Okay, give us a working definition of addictions, because I think most people immediately rush to the more dramatic addictions \u2013 drugs, alcohol, sex \u2013 something along those lines, but, really addictions are a much larger issue today in our culture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> An addiction is when I love what I can get.\u00a0 How this thing makes me feel better.\u00a0 That's really what seems to be going on with addiction.\u00a0 Ezekiel goes on and says that they are thing in our hearts.\u00a0 You can have an addiction and never even actually see it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And so as we were coming in here, Bob, before we went on the air, asked you the question, are certain people more predisposed toward an addiction?\u00a0 And \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you answered by saying, \"Yes, people who are alive.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yeah, \"People who have been born.\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> People who have been born \u2013 that seems to cover it.\u00a0 Again, do you realize how radical a starting point that is?\u00a0 Because, all of a sudden, the people who are off there in AA believe that their problem is very, very different than the rest of humanity.\u00a0 All of a sudden, you're grouping us all together, and we're all standing under the word of God together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs we're talking about addictions, I was realizing that one of my addictions is my wife, and that probably would actually be a way to think about addictions, where, you know, how can you be addicted to your wife?\u00a0 Well, it goes something like this \u2013 there are certainly times with my wife where I am addicted to her.\u00a0 I love the way she makes me feel more than, frankly, I'd love to be able to serve her for the glory of Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, I have to ask you about this because I was just with a friend of mine who faithfully gets up early in the morning, and he has his time with the Lord \u2013 an hour or more, that he spends in God's Word, in prayer, and he would say to me, \"If I don't get that time every morning,\" he said, \"It messes up my whole day.\"\u00a0 Is he addicted to his quiet time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> He is a person who certainly may well be feeding on the very Word of God, and that's a wonderful thing.\u00a0 He's saying, \"I need this in order to live.\"\u00a0 He can be a person who is saying the Word of God is \u2013 \"I use that so I can feel better.\u00a0 That's what I'm really going after \u2013 I'm going for some sort of emotional experience, and the bottle doesn't do it for me, drugs don't it for me, pornography doesn't do it, but actually I feel better about myself when I am involved in these kinds of things.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Now, wait a second.\u00a0 You know, I thought when Bob asked that question, I thought now, that's really \u2013 that's a sneaky question, and, frankly, as I'm listening to you answer it, it's like what can't I be addicted to?\u00a0 Because you're saying ultimately that anything that I am doing just because it makes me feel better can become an addiction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> Well, one of the things that we find with Jesus in the New Testament, food is a really good thing.\u00a0 We need food.\u00a0 But what you find in the wilderness is Jesus is saying that, \"Yeah, we need for in order to live, but food will never become more important than carrying out the very words of my Father,\" and that's really what we're talking about.\u00a0 What is the most \u2013 what is the object of your worship in your life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, again, let me try to get my arms around this \u2013 if I'm getting up having a quiet time every morning spending an hour in God's Word and praying, and I really look forward to that, how do I diagnosis whether that's a healthy part of my spiritual growth, something that I ought to be doing and that is giving me the sustenance that I need?\u00a0 Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.\u00a0 And how do I diagnose if this is an unhealthy relationship with the Bible?\u00a0 It almost sounds ridiculous to even talk about an unhealthy relationship with the Bible, but it's possible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> I guess here would be a simple way to do it \u2013 are the Scriptures leading us in loving Jesus more?\u00a0 What we can do is we can look at the fruit of the Scripture in our lives.\u00a0 If it is leading us to loving the Lord and loving other people, then we're on the right track.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Let's talk to those who are dealing with something in their lives where \u2013 well, you use a term in your workbooks \u2013 voluntary slavery.\u00a0 That's how you describe addiction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> And it shows the wonderful sophistication of Scripture, doesn't it?\u00a0 Where Scripture understands both that somebody is, in one sense, almost hopelessly smitten and taken by this.\u00a0 They are actually enslaved, they are imprisoned by it.\u00a0 The Scripture takes that very, very seriously, but Scripture also takes the love of the object very seriously \u2013 \"I do this because it helps me in some way.\u00a0 It gives me something that I'm looking for.\u00a0 This is where my life is.\u00a0 I do this because I want to.\u00a0 I do it because I like it.\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat's one of the hidden features of sin.\u00a0 We sin not because we hate sin, we sin because we love sin.\u00a0 And so voluntary slavery, I think, is the wonderful way that Scripture brings together both the active, \"I do this because I want to\" nature of addictions, and the horribly enslaved feature of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay, well, then let me ask you about a guy who would say, \"Yeah, I drink, but I'm not an alcoholic, I mean, I don't drink all the time.\u00a0 I can go for a week without having to have something to drink.\u00a0 I mean, I know I'm not addicted because I can point to periods in my life where I went without.\u00a0 Isn't that proof that I'm not an addict?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> Where do you turn when things are difficult in your life?\u00a0 Where do you turn?\u00a0 Do you find yourself first thinking, \"I can't wait to get home and just relax and drink this away,\" or do you think \"When I am in distress I will call out to the Lord.\u00a0 He is the one that I want to turn to, rather than these other objects of my affection.\"\u00a0 That's the goal of every Christian life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So the person who says, \"When I'm stressed, I shop,\" \"When I'm stressed, I eat,\" \"When I'm stressed, I drink,\" \"When I'm stressed, I need to go out and have a cigarette,\" that person is really saying, \"My response to stress is helping point out what my affections and addictions really are.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> And once again you are establishing, \"We are all in this together.\"\u00a0 We can be ruled by things that satisfy us.\u00a0 We can look for life and refuge in things rather than our Creator.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Let's take a form of an addiction that is very prevalent among people of all ages today, especially among men \u2013 pornography.\u00a0 You are saying, then, that a man who is attracted to pornography, gets off into pornography, is doing this because it meets a need in his own life to feel good about himself.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> \"I am looking to find life in places other than the Lord.\"\u00a0 That's what all addiction is about.\u00a0 It's the phenomenon of the Garden.\u00a0 We have this sense that outside the boundaries that God has given us, there is life out there.\u00a0 It's what almost every teenager puts a voice to \u2013 \"I feel like God is strapping me in, and I see all these other people having fun,\" well, that doesn't change when we leave our teenage years.\u00a0 There is lie in the devil's lies, there is life outside of what God has given us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And as people take steps toward this life outside the garden, outside where God is, you describe a descent into addiction.\u00a0 Walk us through that descent \u2013 of what takes place in a person's life and, if you would, use the living illustration of perhaps a man you've counseled around this very subject of addiction.\u00a0 Talk about how he sampled initially, how he was drawn in, and then how he became ultimately involuntary slavery.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> The man who had a previous relationship with cocaine came to Christ.\u00a0 Things changed very dramatically in his life.\u00a0 He had a very, very difficult issue in his home.\u00a0 He had a child that died in childbirth.\u00a0 And at that particular point, he felt so horribly, and he did not turn to Christ in the midst of that.\u00a0 He said, \"I have to find life somewhere else.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo the story began with him, at least we pick up the story where he is saying \"Something really hurts.\u00a0 Something hurts.\u00a0 I don't like the way that I feel.\u00a0 How can I \u2013 and I don't want to endure with this.\u00a0 I don't think that Jesus is going to give me magic to take it away, and I've got to take it away sooner rather than later.\"\u00a0 And he began to move toward wine, and that was \u2013 that became the object of his affection.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then every day that's what he would do.\u00a0 The horror of what happens in life, he felt like he had to keep it at bay and rather than calling out to the Lord and calling out to friends, \"How do I call out to Christ in meaningful ways and find comfort?\"\u00a0 He said, \"No, I think this works quickly,\" and so he would go back to it again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we can see, at that point, a relationship began to develop.\u00a0 This is something that worked for him.\u00a0 It took away those bad feelings.\u00a0 It seemed to be more effective than turning to Jesus.\u00a0 And whenever anything works for us, we try it again.\u00a0 We practice it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, the deception of all addiction is keep practicing it, and you will feel even better than before.\u00a0 You felt that much better after a little bit, you'll feel a whole lot better after a lot.\u00a0 And it's at that point the lies of that dark world become more and more apparent.\u00a0 Where we like it, we like it, we practice it, we look for more and more from it, we love it, we begin to worship it, but it betrays us, and we begin the experience the tragedy of addictions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, in something like pornography, the very object of your affection is sin from the beginning.\u00a0 I mean, to gaze on another woman with lust in your heart is sinful at the start.\u00a0 If your addiction is food, you are not dealing with something that is patently sinful to begin with.\u00a0 When does it cross the line?\u00a0 I mean, we've already said it crosses the line when it begins to control you, but it's hard to diagnose when you are being controlled and when you are just saying, \"Well, I'm hungry, so I'll have something more to eat.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> Here would be one way to approach that \u2013 \"I don't trust myself.\u00a0 Where is that line for me?\u00a0 I don't trust myself,\" and \"Am I willing to speak of the details of my life to the close friends I have around me and to my spouse?\u00a0 If I find that, no, it's not necessary for them to know those details, that's when I'm in trouble \u2013 to value being able to be open about these things before others.\"\u00a0 When we're walking in the light, it may be a little bit embarrassing to speak of these things, but we're certainly willing to speak of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So the person who would say to you, \"You know, I turned to Jesus, and I felt that for a while, but a couple of weeks later, or a couple of months later, I was right back in it.\u00a0 The compulsion dragged me back.\u00a0 I hear what you're saying, but I tried it, and that Jesus thing did not work for me.\"\u00a0 What do you say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> I would say we have a God who comes to us and advertises that He doesn't just give life and refuge, He gives abundant life.\u00a0 It's better than anything that we could imagine.\u00a0 And one of the myths that every single addict has is they have some suspicion that God is not that good.\u00a0 He is good if they're good, but if they happen to blow it, He's not that good.\u00a0 Every single addict must \u2013 must have that just deeply embedded in their soul, and for them to say, for them to hear a God who says \"No, there is more.\u00a0 There is an abundance, there is life in me that is far superior than anything you can find in Creation.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Come back again, right?\u00a0 Just keep coming to the same place.\u00a0 Yeah, you slipped, you fell \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> But with something like this, \"Okay, Bob, listen, listen,\" okay?\u00a0 These are not just ordinary words.\u00a0 We think we've heard the words before.\u00a0 Did you ever hear a preacher \u2013 they're talking and then, all of a sudden, they, like, lean over the podium and they say, \"Now, listen to me.\"\u00a0 That's what we're doing with an addict \u2013 \"I'm going to tell you something, and this isn't just ordinary talk, this is 'You've got to listen to this, okay, because I'm going to give you words of actual life, so listen and embrace them and savor them and eat them.'\"\u00a0 That's the way we approach an addict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I was thinking while you two were talking about the disciples \u2013 I believe it's in the Gospel of John where Jesus said some hard things, and it says, \"As a result, many withdrew and followed Him no more,\" and He turned to His disciples and said, \"Are you, too, going to leave?\"\u00a0 And they made some of the words that I identify the most with in terms of just our humanity and just who we are as people.\u00a0 They said, \"Lord, where would we go, for you alone have the words of eternal life.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[musical transition] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What's your hope?\u00a0 It's not in a bottle, it's not in drugs, it's not in gambling, it's not in pornography, sex, it's not in success, it's not in the more respectable addictions that we have in our culture.\u00a0 It's ultimately keeping on turning back to Him who is the bread of life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, if you mess up, when you mess up, when you slip, you can meet with the rest of us at the foot of the cross because that's where we've got to go every day because everyone who said, \"Lord, I'm going to follow you,\" has fallen from that commitment on an ongoing basis, and where do we go with that?\u00a0 We go back to the cross.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think sometimes church service ought to start with just going down the rows and having people stand up \u2013 \"I'm Dennis Rainey, I'm a sinner, and I am forgiven.\"\u00a0 And then Barbara Rainey stands up \u2013 \"I'm Barbara Rainey, I am a sinner, and I am forgiven.\"\u00a0 Maybe, at points, name some of our sins.\u00a0 And we would see, you know what?\u00a0 We're in the thick of thieves and liars and cheaters and stealers and adulterers and former homosexuals.\u00a0 I mean, I think that's what the church was intended to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, in fact, on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com, there is a link to a video that's on the Internet that many of our listeners may have seen.\u00a0 Hillside Christian Church in Amarillo, Texas, did something just like that.\u00a0 They called it \"cardboard testimonies,\" and they different people come and share their testimony on a piece of cardboard.\u00a0 And on one side of the cardboard was what they used to be, and on the other side was the transforming work of God in their lives, and it's a powerful \u2013 in fact, if our listeners would like to see it, they can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and follow the link and watch the video.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI should also mention that on the Web we have information about the book, \"Addictions, a Banquet in the Grave,\" that Ed Welch has written \u2013 and about the workbooks that you have created as a companion to that book, and I'm excited about these workbooks, because I think they're going to help a lot of people and going to give churches a lot of opportunity to address this issue with folks in a very biblical way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the information about the resources we've talked about can be found at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 It's FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 Someone on our team can let you know how you can get the resources you're looking for sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to say a special word of thanks today to those of you who are not just regular listeners to FamilyLife Today but some of you over the last several months have also contacted us to make a donation to the ministry of FamilyLife Today, and I know here in the week, when people are scrambling to get their taxes put together and to send everything off to the government, one of the last things people may be thinking about is making a donation to a ministry like FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 You just need to know, those donations we have received from you are what make this ministry possible.\u00a0 We are listener-supported, and without your past financial support, we would not be here today.\u00a0 These are difficult financial times for a lot of families, and difficult financial times for our ministry, and that makes the donations we've received recently an even greater encouragement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, if you are able to help support FamilyLife Today with a donation of any amount, we have a gift we'd like to send you as a thank you gift.\u00a0 It's a project that Dennis and Barbara worked on \u2013 I guess we could say you guys worked on this Bible for decades, because the FamilyLife Marriage Bible includes not only the text of the new King James version of the Bible, but also articles, devotions, tips, insights from the ministry of Dennis and Barbara over the last several decades.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a devotional Bible designed so a husband and wife can read through it together or on their own, and alongside the Bible text are these articles and tips and devotionals to help you think biblically about your marriage and about your family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe FamilyLife Marriage Bible is our gift to you when you make a donation this month of any amount to support the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 In fact, you may want to pass this Bible along to someone you know who is getting married this spring.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMake your donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com and when you do, type the word \"Bible\" in the keycode box on the donation from, or call 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 You can make a donation over the phone and just ask for your copy of the FamilyLife Marriage Bible.\u00a0 We're happy to send it out to you and, again, we so much appreciate your financial partnership with us here in the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we're going to continue to talk about addictions, and we want to talk about what happens when there is a relapse, when someone falls back into the old pattern of sin.\u00a0 We'll talk about that tomorrow.\u00a0 I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas \u2013 help for today; hope for tomorrow.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/site\/c.dnJHKLNnFoG\/b.3782043\/k.384D\/Support_Us.htm\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["14.35M"],"filesize_raw":["15042644"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-301806.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-301806.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: 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there anything on earth that can\u2019t become an addiction?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2009-04-14.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is Bob Lepine from FamilyLife Today, and before we start today's program, we need to have a word with our listeners, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We do.\u00a0 You know, our mission here at FamilyLife is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We want to see every home become a godly home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That's exactly right, Bob.\u00a0 But to do that, I need our listeners' help, that's all there is to it.\u00a0 The current financial crisis has resulted in us being about $1 million down in donations from where we were this time last year, and that's a hard number for us.\u00a0 In response to that, we've taken appropriate action.\u00a0 We've had a couple of layoffs here at FamilyLife, 14% of our staff no longer work here.\u00a0 We've had pay cuts, and we're doing what we can do to make ends meet.\u00a0 But to bridge the gap, I need your help as a listener.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so I am coming to you as a friend, one who has met with you every day maybe around this time for a number of months or perhaps years, and I'm just saying, as your friend, I'd like you to help.\u00a0 Do what you can do, and maybe open your checkbook and give a gift to FamilyLife if God so moves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wouldn't want your church to suffer because of that giving.\u00a0 We believe giving needs to start there, but this would sure be timely, if you could join with us right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You can make a gift online at FamilyLifeToday.com or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 That's 1-800-358-6329, 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and we hope to hear from you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That's right, and I just want to say thanks in advance.\u00a0 I meet you all around the country. You come up and tell me you listening to our broadcast, and you share how your life has been touched and changed in your marriage and your family and your kids and, I want to tell you, it's a privilege to be here on FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[musical transition] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And welcome to FamilyLife Today, our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 You know, I've already asked our guest this week, Ed Welch, about any addictions that he struggles with.\u00a0 So I'm going to ask you \u2013 do you think there are addictions in your life, things that you crave that get control of you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, I would have denied that 10 years ago, but as I've gotten older and watched the patterns of my life, I can vegetate in front of the television and develop flat brain waves, and, in my opinion, can become an escape from reality.\u00a0 It can numb the exhaustion of a hard day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me ask Ed about that \u2013 is it possible to have an addiction to cable television?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> To cable, in particular?\u00a0 Certainly not cable, but regular network TV, absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What Dennis describing, a guy who comes home and says, \"I just want to sit down and relax and unwind a little bit, and he turns on the TV and surfs for a couple of hours.\u00a0 That doesn't sound so bad, is it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> Little mini-Sabbaths, I mean, we can certainly justify those things, and there is no doubt \u2013 I'm sure there are times where you need those mini-Sabbaths.\u00a0 Perhaps one of the ways we can detect it is when somebody comes and interferes with your show, how do you respond?\u00a0 When they interfere with your flatlining, do you find yourself grumbling and complaining?\u00a0 That's when you can begin to see it exposed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When your wife has a need that needs to be addressed \u2013 do you see the look on his face as I'm talking about this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, I've turned it off on more than one occasion, because Barbara will start to talk and finally she goes, \"I want to talk,\" and being interpreted, \"Will you turn that thing off so we can have a conversation?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Are you annoyed when that happens?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Sometimes, you know, it really matters what's on TV because it's usually a sporting event and if \u2013 there was one the other night \u2013 I kept looking over her shoulder, and that was not a good thing, that was not a good thing, and I forget what it was, but it was near the end of the game and it was, you know, it was just one of those moments, as a man, you had to finish it, you had to know how it turned out.\u00a0 But Barbara didn't buy that.\u00a0 She did not buy that at all, so I pushed the \"record\" button \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Went back and checked it out later.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And check it out later.\u00a0 I feel like our listeners need to know who our guest is on FamilyLife Today \u2013 Ed Welch is a professor of Practical Theology and Westminster Theological Seminary.\u00a0 He and his wife, Sherry, have two daughters, two grandchildren.\u00a0 He has authored a number of books, and he's come up with a couple of workbooks.\u00a0 One for a facilitator and the other for a student called \"Crossroads, A Step-by-Step Guide Away from Addiction.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And, Ed, you wrote a book a number of years ago called \"Addictions, A Banquet in the Grave.\"\u00a0 These workbooks are kind of the practical outworking of that book, is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> Yes, the initial book, \"The Banquet in the Grave,\" the people in mind were colleagues, were people who were going to be walking along with other addicts.\u00a0 For these particular workbooks, it's just flooded with friends and relatives and family who are actually in the addictions.\u00a0 That's why I was so zealous to be able to write this one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Okay, give us a working definition of addictions, because I think most people immediately rush to the more dramatic addictions \u2013 drugs, alcohol, sex \u2013 something along those lines, but, really addictions are a much larger issue today in our culture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> An addiction is when I love what I can get.\u00a0 How this thing makes me feel better.\u00a0 That's really what seems to be going on with addiction.\u00a0 Ezekiel goes on and says that they are thing in our hearts.\u00a0 You can have an addiction and never even actually see it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And so as we were coming in here, Bob, before we went on the air, asked you the question, are certain people more predisposed toward an addiction?\u00a0 And \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you answered by saying, \"Yes, people who are alive.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yeah, \"People who have been born.\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> People who have been born \u2013 that seems to cover it.\u00a0 Again, do you realize how radical a starting point that is?\u00a0 Because, all of a sudden, the people who are off there in AA believe that their problem is very, very different than the rest of humanity.\u00a0 All of a sudden, you're grouping us all together, and we're all standing under the word of God together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs we're talking about addictions, I was realizing that one of my addictions is my wife, and that probably would actually be a way to think about addictions, where, you know, how can you be addicted to your wife?\u00a0 Well, it goes something like this \u2013 there are certainly times with my wife where I am addicted to her.\u00a0 I love the way she makes me feel more than, frankly, I'd love to be able to serve her for the glory of Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, I have to ask you about this because I was just with a friend of mine who faithfully gets up early in the morning, and he has his time with the Lord \u2013 an hour or more, that he spends in God's Word, in prayer, and he would say to me, \"If I don't get that time every morning,\" he said, \"It messes up my whole day.\"\u00a0 Is he addicted to his quiet time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> He is a person who certainly may well be feeding on the very Word of God, and that's a wonderful thing.\u00a0 He's saying, \"I need this in order to live.\"\u00a0 He can be a person who is saying the Word of God is \u2013 \"I use that so I can feel better.\u00a0 That's what I'm really going after \u2013 I'm going for some sort of emotional experience, and the bottle doesn't do it for me, drugs don't it for me, pornography doesn't do it, but actually I feel better about myself when I am involved in these kinds of things.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Now, wait a second.\u00a0 You know, I thought when Bob asked that question, I thought now, that's really \u2013 that's a sneaky question, and, frankly, as I'm listening to you answer it, it's like what can't I be addicted to?\u00a0 Because you're saying ultimately that anything that I am doing just because it makes me feel better can become an addiction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> Well, one of the things that we find with Jesus in the New Testament, food is a really good thing.\u00a0 We need food.\u00a0 But what you find in the wilderness is Jesus is saying that, \"Yeah, we need for in order to live, but food will never become more important than carrying out the very words of my Father,\" and that's really what we're talking about.\u00a0 What is the most \u2013 what is the object of your worship in your life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, again, let me try to get my arms around this \u2013 if I'm getting up having a quiet time every morning spending an hour in God's Word and praying, and I really look forward to that, how do I diagnosis whether that's a healthy part of my spiritual growth, something that I ought to be doing and that is giving me the sustenance that I need?\u00a0 Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.\u00a0 And how do I diagnose if this is an unhealthy relationship with the Bible?\u00a0 It almost sounds ridiculous to even talk about an unhealthy relationship with the Bible, but it's possible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> I guess here would be a simple way to do it \u2013 are the Scriptures leading us in loving Jesus more?\u00a0 What we can do is we can look at the fruit of the Scripture in our lives.\u00a0 If it is leading us to loving the Lord and loving other people, then we're on the right track.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Let's talk to those who are dealing with something in their lives where \u2013 well, you use a term in your workbooks \u2013 voluntary slavery.\u00a0 That's how you describe addiction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> And it shows the wonderful sophistication of Scripture, doesn't it?\u00a0 Where Scripture understands both that somebody is, in one sense, almost hopelessly smitten and taken by this.\u00a0 They are actually enslaved, they are imprisoned by it.\u00a0 The Scripture takes that very, very seriously, but Scripture also takes the love of the object very seriously \u2013 \"I do this because it helps me in some way.\u00a0 It gives me something that I'm looking for.\u00a0 This is where my life is.\u00a0 I do this because I want to.\u00a0 I do it because I like it.\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat's one of the hidden features of sin.\u00a0 We sin not because we hate sin, we sin because we love sin.\u00a0 And so voluntary slavery, I think, is the wonderful way that Scripture brings together both the active, \"I do this because I want to\" nature of addictions, and the horribly enslaved feature of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay, well, then let me ask you about a guy who would say, \"Yeah, I drink, but I'm not an alcoholic, I mean, I don't drink all the time.\u00a0 I can go for a week without having to have something to drink.\u00a0 I mean, I know I'm not addicted because I can point to periods in my life where I went without.\u00a0 Isn't that proof that I'm not an addict?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> Where do you turn when things are difficult in your life?\u00a0 Where do you turn?\u00a0 Do you find yourself first thinking, \"I can't wait to get home and just relax and drink this away,\" or do you think \"When I am in distress I will call out to the Lord.\u00a0 He is the one that I want to turn to, rather than these other objects of my affection.\"\u00a0 That's the goal of every Christian life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So the person who says, \"When I'm stressed, I shop,\" \"When I'm stressed, I eat,\" \"When I'm stressed, I drink,\" \"When I'm stressed, I need to go out and have a cigarette,\" that person is really saying, \"My response to stress is helping point out what my affections and addictions really are.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> And once again you are establishing, \"We are all in this together.\"\u00a0 We can be ruled by things that satisfy us.\u00a0 We can look for life and refuge in things rather than our Creator.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Let's take a form of an addiction that is very prevalent among people of all ages today, especially among men \u2013 pornography.\u00a0 You are saying, then, that a man who is attracted to pornography, gets off into pornography, is doing this because it meets a need in his own life to feel good about himself.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> \"I am looking to find life in places other than the Lord.\"\u00a0 That's what all addiction is about.\u00a0 It's the phenomenon of the Garden.\u00a0 We have this sense that outside the boundaries that God has given us, there is life out there.\u00a0 It's what almost every teenager puts a voice to \u2013 \"I feel like God is strapping me in, and I see all these other people having fun,\" well, that doesn't change when we leave our teenage years.\u00a0 There is lie in the devil's lies, there is life outside of what God has given us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And as people take steps toward this life outside the garden, outside where God is, you describe a descent into addiction.\u00a0 Walk us through that descent \u2013 of what takes place in a person's life and, if you would, use the living illustration of perhaps a man you've counseled around this very subject of addiction.\u00a0 Talk about how he sampled initially, how he was drawn in, and then how he became ultimately involuntary slavery.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> The man who had a previous relationship with cocaine came to Christ.\u00a0 Things changed very dramatically in his life.\u00a0 He had a very, very difficult issue in his home.\u00a0 He had a child that died in childbirth.\u00a0 And at that particular point, he felt so horribly, and he did not turn to Christ in the midst of that.\u00a0 He said, \"I have to find life somewhere else.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo the story began with him, at least we pick up the story where he is saying \"Something really hurts.\u00a0 Something hurts.\u00a0 I don't like the way that I feel.\u00a0 How can I \u2013 and I don't want to endure with this.\u00a0 I don't think that Jesus is going to give me magic to take it away, and I've got to take it away sooner rather than later.\"\u00a0 And he began to move toward wine, and that was \u2013 that became the object of his affection.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then every day that's what he would do.\u00a0 The horror of what happens in life, he felt like he had to keep it at bay and rather than calling out to the Lord and calling out to friends, \"How do I call out to Christ in meaningful ways and find comfort?\"\u00a0 He said, \"No, I think this works quickly,\" and so he would go back to it again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we can see, at that point, a relationship began to develop.\u00a0 This is something that worked for him.\u00a0 It took away those bad feelings.\u00a0 It seemed to be more effective than turning to Jesus.\u00a0 And whenever anything works for us, we try it again.\u00a0 We practice it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, the deception of all addiction is keep practicing it, and you will feel even better than before.\u00a0 You felt that much better after a little bit, you'll feel a whole lot better after a lot.\u00a0 And it's at that point the lies of that dark world become more and more apparent.\u00a0 Where we like it, we like it, we practice it, we look for more and more from it, we love it, we begin to worship it, but it betrays us, and we begin the experience the tragedy of addictions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, in something like pornography, the very object of your affection is sin from the beginning.\u00a0 I mean, to gaze on another woman with lust in your heart is sinful at the start.\u00a0 If your addiction is food, you are not dealing with something that is patently sinful to begin with.\u00a0 When does it cross the line?\u00a0 I mean, we've already said it crosses the line when it begins to control you, but it's hard to diagnose when you are being controlled and when you are just saying, \"Well, I'm hungry, so I'll have something more to eat.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> Here would be one way to approach that \u2013 \"I don't trust myself.\u00a0 Where is that line for me?\u00a0 I don't trust myself,\" and \"Am I willing to speak of the details of my life to the close friends I have around me and to my spouse?\u00a0 If I find that, no, it's not necessary for them to know those details, that's when I'm in trouble \u2013 to value being able to be open about these things before others.\"\u00a0 When we're walking in the light, it may be a little bit embarrassing to speak of these things, but we're certainly willing to speak of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So the person who would say to you, \"You know, I turned to Jesus, and I felt that for a while, but a couple of weeks later, or a couple of months later, I was right back in it.\u00a0 The compulsion dragged me back.\u00a0 I hear what you're saying, but I tried it, and that Jesus thing did not work for me.\"\u00a0 What do you say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> I would say we have a God who comes to us and advertises that He doesn't just give life and refuge, He gives abundant life.\u00a0 It's better than anything that we could imagine.\u00a0 And one of the myths that every single addict has is they have some suspicion that God is not that good.\u00a0 He is good if they're good, but if they happen to blow it, He's not that good.\u00a0 Every single addict must \u2013 must have that just deeply embedded in their soul, and for them to say, for them to hear a God who says \"No, there is more.\u00a0 There is an abundance, there is life in me that is far superior than anything you can find in Creation.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Come back again, right?\u00a0 Just keep coming to the same place.\u00a0 Yeah, you slipped, you fell \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ed:<\/strong> But with something like this, \"Okay, Bob, listen, listen,\" okay?\u00a0 These are not just ordinary words.\u00a0 We think we've heard the words before.\u00a0 Did you ever hear a preacher \u2013 they're talking and then, all of a sudden, they, like, lean over the podium and they say, \"Now, listen to me.\"\u00a0 That's what we're doing with an addict \u2013 \"I'm going to tell you something, and this isn't just ordinary talk, this is 'You've got to listen to this, okay, because I'm going to give you words of actual life, so listen and embrace them and savor them and eat them.'\"\u00a0 That's the way we approach an addict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I was thinking while you two were talking about the disciples \u2013 I believe it's in the Gospel of John where Jesus said some hard things, and it says, \"As a result, many withdrew and followed Him no more,\" and He turned to His disciples and said, \"Are you, too, going to leave?\"\u00a0 And they made some of the words that I identify the most with in terms of just our humanity and just who we are as people.\u00a0 They said, \"Lord, where would we go, for you alone have the words of eternal life.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[musical transition] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What's your hope?\u00a0 It's not in a bottle, it's not in drugs, it's not in gambling, it's not in pornography, sex, it's not in success, it's not in the more respectable addictions that we have in our culture.\u00a0 It's ultimately keeping on turning back to Him who is the bread of life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, if you mess up, when you mess up, when you slip, you can meet with the rest of us at the foot of the cross because that's where we've got to go every day because everyone who said, \"Lord, I'm going to follow you,\" has fallen from that commitment on an ongoing basis, and where do we go with that?\u00a0 We go back to the cross.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think sometimes church service ought to start with just going down the rows and having people stand up \u2013 \"I'm Dennis Rainey, I'm a sinner, and I am forgiven.\"\u00a0 And then Barbara Rainey stands up \u2013 \"I'm Barbara Rainey, I am a sinner, and I am forgiven.\"\u00a0 Maybe, at points, name some of our sins.\u00a0 And we would see, you know what?\u00a0 We're in the thick of thieves and liars and cheaters and stealers and adulterers and former homosexuals.\u00a0 I mean, I think that's what the church was intended to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, in fact, on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com, there is a link to a video that's on the Internet that many of our listeners may have seen.\u00a0 Hillside Christian Church in Amarillo, Texas, did something just like that.\u00a0 They called it \"cardboard testimonies,\" and they different people come and share their testimony on a piece of cardboard.\u00a0 And on one side of the cardboard was what they used to be, and on the other side was the transforming work of God in their lives, and it's a powerful \u2013 in fact, if our listeners would like to see it, they can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and follow the link and watch the video.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI should also mention that on the Web we have information about the book, \"Addictions, a Banquet in the Grave,\" that Ed Welch has written \u2013 and about the workbooks that you have created as a companion to that book, and I'm excited about these workbooks, because I think they're going to help a lot of people and going to give churches a lot of opportunity to address this issue with folks in a very biblical way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the information about the resources we've talked about can be found at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 It's FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 Someone on our team can let you know how you can get the resources you're looking for sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to say a special word of thanks today to those of you who are not just regular listeners to FamilyLife Today but some of you over the last several months have also contacted us to make a donation to the ministry of FamilyLife Today, and I know here in the week, when people are scrambling to get their taxes put together and to send everything off to the government, one of the last things people may be thinking about is making a donation to a ministry like FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 You just need to know, those donations we have received from you are what make this ministry possible.\u00a0 We are listener-supported, and without your past financial support, we would not be here today.\u00a0 These are difficult financial times for a lot of families, and difficult financial times for our ministry, and that makes the donations we've received recently an even greater encouragement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, if you are able to help support FamilyLife Today with a donation of any amount, we have a gift we'd like to send you as a thank you gift.\u00a0 It's a project that Dennis and Barbara worked on \u2013 I guess we could say you guys worked on this Bible for decades, because the FamilyLife Marriage Bible includes not only the text of the new King James version of the Bible, but also articles, devotions, tips, insights from the ministry of Dennis and Barbara over the last several decades.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a devotional Bible designed so a husband and wife can read through it together or on their own, and alongside the Bible text are these articles and tips and devotionals to help you think biblically about your marriage and about your family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe FamilyLife Marriage Bible is our gift to you when you make a donation this month of any amount to support the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 In fact, you may want to pass this Bible along to someone you know who is getting married this spring.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMake your donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com and when you do, type the word \"Bible\" in the keycode box on the donation from, or call 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 You can make a donation over the phone and just ask for your copy of the FamilyLife Marriage Bible.\u00a0 We're happy to send it out to you and, again, we so much appreciate your financial partnership with us here in the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we're going to continue to talk about addictions, and we want to talk about what happens when there is a relapse, when someone falls back into the old pattern of sin.\u00a0 We'll talk about that tomorrow.\u00a0 I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas \u2013 help for today; hope for tomorrow.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/site\/c.dnJHKLNnFoG\/b.3782043\/k.384D\/Support_Us.htm\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 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