{"id":301756,"date":"2009-01-29T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2009-01-29T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/business-is-business\/"},"modified":"2009-01-29T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2009-01-29T17:00:00","slug":"business-is-business","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/business-is-business\/","title":{"rendered":"Business is Business"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Beauty, brains, money . . . suicide?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2009-01-29.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"13.63M","filesize_raw":"14286922","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2827],"tags":[4491,4562],"podcast_series":[7283],"cwp_profile":[8874],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301756","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-repentance","tag-abortion","tag-suicide","podcast_series-blood-money","cwp_profile-carol-everett","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301756\/business-is-business","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301756\/business-is-business","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"lmeDk5oKIU\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/business-is-business\/\">Business is Business<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/business-is-business\/embed\/#?secret=lmeDk5oKIU\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Business is Business&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"lmeDk5oKIU\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var 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in my life.\u00a0 I was miserable, I found myself at a psychiatrist's every day.\u00a0 I was trying to find something that worked, and I finally found one thing that did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What Carol found was a new job opportunity \u2013 working in the abortion industry selling abortions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> I was paid $25 for each procedure, and every time I sold another woman a pregnancy termination, in some sick, twisted way, if that woman was okay, perhaps I was okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, January 29th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll hear from Carol Everett today about how her life went from being a mess to being made whole.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition.\u00a0 We are going to spend some time hearing from Carol Everett on today's program, Dennis, but before we get into that, this is Day 25 of our 40-day Love Dare that we've been going through together this month, taken from the book, \"The Love Dare,\" that was featured in the movie, \"Fireproof,\" which is now out on DVD, and today's Love Dare assignment centers on the issue of forgiveness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t2 Corinthians, chapter 2, verse 10 says, \"What I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did, for your sakes, in the presence of Christ.\"\u00a0 And I've heard you say many times, you've quoted Ruth Graham, Billy Graham's wife, who said that a great marriage is the union of two great forgivers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo your assignment today, if you are following along in the Love Dare with us, your assignment is whatever you haven't forgiven in your spouse, you need to forgive it today, you need to let it go, just as we pray to Jesus and say, \"Forgive us our debts each day,\" we need to ask Him to help us forgive our debtors each day as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe lack of forgiveness has been keeping many husbands and wives in prison too long.\u00a0 So today you need to say from your heart, \"I choose to forgive,\" and there is more on the subject of forgiveness in the book, \"The Love Dare,\" which we have in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 You can request a copy by going online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 There is also information about the DVD, which is available from us as well.\u00a0 FamilyLifeToday.com is our website, and we have posted today's Love Dare assignment on the Web as well, and we hope you'll continue with us all the way up to Valentine's Day in the 40-day Love Dare.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we're going to talk about abortion on today's program, and I was thinking about this \u2013 back when I was in college and in high school in the '70s, I think most of us had a perspective on abortion that it's a terrible thing, and you wouldn't want to have your sister have to have one or your wife ever to need one, but I think most of us thought I guess it needs to be there for those folks who are really in trouble and really need one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> This was when you were younger?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is \u2013 yeah, this was college age, and abortion was now legal, and everybody was asking, \"What do you think?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Now, were you going to church at that time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I was going to church.\u00a0 I was part of a local church, and I don't remember it being talked about until one Sunday night Mary Ann and I went to a film series, Francis Schaffer's film series, \"How Shall We Then Live?\"\u00a0 And I think it was the first film in the series that ended with a scene where Schaffer was on a shore, on a beach, and all over the beach were little baby dolls just washed up on the shore, just thousands of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe walked out of that movie that night, and we looked at each other and said, \"You know, I've never really thought about this issue this way before,\" and that was a turning point in our thinking about the whole issue of abortion to where we came back and said, \"This is an issue that is on the heart of God.\u00a0 We've got to consider it more deeply than we have before, and we want our heart to be God's heart on this issue.\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that was the turning point in our own life to where we became strongly pro-life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I don't think I became strongly pro-life until we adopted.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That was the point where the issue became a reality for you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, Bob, honestly, when you're the recipient of life because a birth mother cared enough for her child to be able to give it that gift and then love that little girl enough to give her a forever family, boy, that moves it to a whole other level.\u00a0 And I believe I was pro-life before, but I think that receiving a child, an adopted child, I think that made us even moreso.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know today that looking back now more than 30 years at Roe v. Wade, the Christian community needs to evaluate how we have gone about opposing the Supreme Court's ruling.\u00a0 I came to you, and I said, \"You know, I want to talk with a key leader in this movement about this subject,\" and we ran across Carol Everett's book, \"Blood Money,\" and we invited her to join us, and Carol was with us yesterday, and I welcome you back, Carol.\u00a0 Welcome back to FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> It's good to be with you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Carol is the CEO and founder of The Heidi Group headquartered near Austin, Texas.\u00a0 It is \u2013 well, share with our listeners what The Heidi Group is all about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> The Heidi Group serves the servants in the pregnancy centers, the crisis pregnancy centers, the women's resource centers, of our nation \u2013 those helping girls and women in unplanned pregnancies all the way through and beyond.\u00a0 The Heidi Group offers strategic planning, fundraising, and we have an e-learning site so that these centers can train their volunteers, train their staff, certify them through Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, and our goal is to serve them so they can better serve the women at no cost.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We've got a link to your website on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com if listeners would like more information.\u00a0 You really see these centers as key players in the strategy for responding rightly to what's going on in our nation, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> Yes, we have 3,500 pregnancy centers across our nation that have seen approximately 2 million women, and depending on the center, 10 percent to 30 percent come to Christ, and from 90 to 98 percent of those women choose life for their babies.\u00a0 We do have some hills to climb.\u00a0 There are about 5 million women who need to be seen, and we need to find outreaches to those women. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Carol, you told us yesterday that when you were 28 years old, just a few weeks after Roe v. Wade had been declared by the Supreme Court, you had an abortion.\u00a0 You were a married mother of two, your husband didn't want you to have the baby.\u00a0 In fact, he insisted that you terminate the pregnancy, and you did.\u00a0 That began a spiral in your life that was a downward spiral, didn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> Yes.\u00a0 Nothing worked in my life.\u00a0 I was miserable, I found myself at a psychiatrist's every day.\u00a0 I was trying to find something that worked, and I finally found one thing that did.\u00a0 Every time I sold another woman a pregnancy termination, in some sick, twisted way, if that woman was okay perhaps I was okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, had you gone to work for an abortion provider?\u00a0 What were you doing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> Actually, I worked for a man who was selling medical supplies.\u00a0 That was back when women were just getting into sales.\u00a0 I was the first woman in medical supply sales in Dallas, Texas, and I worked for a man who saw an account come online, checked it out, it was an abortion clinic, and he opened four.\u00a0 So he paid me a $25 commission for sending clients to his clinics.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And how did you get these clients?\u00a0 I mean, the contact in the first place?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> I was calling on doctors \u2013 so doctors would \u2013 I'd just tell the doctor, \"I have a place to send women if you need a referral,\" they would give it to me, and I would send them in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> This is an industry that was spiraling out of control, growing rapidly.\u00a0 You jumped in and helped start \u2013 and actually formed a partnership with a physician?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> With the man who did my pregnancy termination.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So from being paid a finder's fee, like you were doing initially, you actually became more entrepreneurial, and you said, at some level, this was cathartic for you, this was kind of covering over some of the guilt and depress you were feeling?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> Yes, it was.\u00a0 And I evolved into working on a daily basis in the clinic before I started my own clinic.\u00a0 And I found, very quickly, we could change our sales techniques on the telephone, and that's what they were \u2013 overcoming every objection with \"pregnancy termination is the answer.\"\u00a0 We more than doubled the business for the man I worked for who wouldn't share that money with me.\u00a0 So I took his best provider, my own doctor, the one who did my own termination, and we started our own clinic.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, what had happened to your marriage at this point?\u00a0 Were you still married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> No, we were a statistic \u2013 75 percent of relationships that conceive a baby who is terminated, break up 90 days after the procedure, as my marriage did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Seventy-five percent ended in divorce or they split up if there is an abortion.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> Within 90 days.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So the girl who was hearing from her boyfriend, from her husband, \"We need to do this for our relationship,\" the statistics are \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \"It isn't going to work.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It's going to destroy your relationship, and you've got three months left.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> If that long.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So \u2013 you are now divorced, dependent upon some kind of income to really provide for your two children, and you forged this partnership?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> Yes.\u00a0 The doctor, his live-in girlfriend, and I were one-third owners of Dallas Medical Ladies' Clinic.\u00a0 But my goal was to be a millionaire and, of course, 40,000 terminations would make me a millionaire at $25.\u00a0 It's the largest unregulated legal industry in our nation today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you have any second thoughts about what you were doing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> When we killed a woman, I had second thoughts about what we were doing.\u00a0 She was 32 years old and a beautiful woman.\u00a0 She came in on a Wednesday night for her procedure, and she was farther along than she thought, too far along, and didn't have enough money.\u00a0 And so she was checked in the back, and I took her up front to talk to her.\u00a0 I told her how much more money she needed and gave her a 10 percent coupon for 10 percent off her termination.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd she came back on Friday night, we put her on the table, and my job, with two of the doctors, was to hold the baby still.\u00a0 You literally hold the baby and tell him where the baby's body parts are, and she bled a lot, but, obviously, that was normal with a second trimester termination, and put her in recovery, and I was cleaning up, balancing the books and working up front, and the doctor came up front, took me back, and I always knew when something was wrong, because he had a way of putting his hand on my shoulder, and he put his hand on my shoulder and said, \"She's been bleeding, she's passed a clot.\u00a0 She'll be all right,\" and when we turned the corner, I'd never seen that much blood \u2013 ever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe explained to me that he had instructed the nurse to call him if there were any problems, and he left.\u00a0 And \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Was she in shock at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> Not yet.\u00a0 She was still awake, and her blood pressure was very low, and I tried to call him.\u00a0 I knew that he had made the comment, \"The margaritas were waiting.\"\u00a0 I tried to call him, tried to reach him, couldn't reach him.\u00a0\u00a0 We put her in a wheelchair, we took her out to the car with the promise that they would call if anything happened.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so at 3:00 in the morning, they called Harvey.\u00a0 They didn't get me, they got Harvey, and Harvey knew nothing of the history because he did not return my phone calls.\u00a0 He told her boyfriend to put her in a tub of water.\u00a0 And what happens when you put a woman in a tub of water in that situation is that uterus opens up, and all the blood runs out and, at this point, all the blood in her body ran out.\u00a0 She had bled out before that, and at 6:00 that morning she was dead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I was devastated.\u00a0 This woman had a 16-year-old and a two-year-old, and we killed her.\u00a0 I mean, that's exactly what I thought.\u00a0 And I thought the authorities would rush in.\u00a0 They took her to a hospital, they knew she died.\u00a0 Surely someone was going to come in and stop us, and no one came.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There were no lawsuits?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> No, her family didn't want the truth coming forth about what had happened to her.\u00a0 The autopsy notes were changed, and nobody said, \"You killed a woman.\"\u00a0 It didn't make the newspapers, the woman didn't even have an obituary.\u00a0 And the doors were open the next morning, and we were doing procedures again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And when a woman came through the door the next morning and said, \"I'm here for my abortion,\" and you were there, were you thinking, \"Are we going to lose another one?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> I remember sitting in a chair that day, and my staff wondered what was wrong with me, but one of the things you do if you have problem is you don't let your staff see.\u00a0 You don't want them to know there was a problem.\u00a0 And I just remember sitting in that chair watching those women go through thinking, \"You know, the police are going to pull up any minute.\"\u00a0 And no one came.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You went on to do something that \u2013 I'm sorry, I just couldn't imagine that you did this, but your 14-year-old daughter needed to earn some money.\u00a0 And so you invited her into your business to work at the abortion clinic, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> Yes.\u00a0 And let me say, before we get started, I'm still paying the price for that.\u00a0 The effects of that are still evident in her life at 39.\u00a0 She wanted to please me so badly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe was the best salesperson I'd ever had.\u00a0 She has a natural instinct, and \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Now, you're speaking at a sales meeting talking young girls into coming in \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> And bringing their money so they could kill their babies, and my daughter did it.\u00a0 And she did it until I left.\u00a0 She would never go in the back where they did the procedures, but she saw a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne day I took her with me \u2013 what happened was, we started maiming one woman a month to the point of major surgery \u2013 hysterectomy, colostomy, major life-changing surgery and then, of course, Sherry died.\u00a0 And there was a 22-year-old model who danced in, jumped up on the table, everything was fine, and I had my hand on that baby, holding that baby, and the doctor went in one time with the forceps, and he pulled out placenta, which is normal, and the next time he pulled out omentum, the lining of the intestine.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe had perforated her uterus somehow, and pulled the intestine through \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2026 the uterine wall.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> Yes.\u00a0 Now, we have a 22-weeker there, the baby is still alive, and you can't go on.\u00a0 You were through.\u00a0 You cannot risk killing that woman on that table.\u00a0 You can't take that baby's life, so we had to transport her to a hospital, and I asked Kelly to go with me, I asked my daughter to go with me to hold the IV.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd what I saw in my daughter's eyes that day when she looked at me, not when she looked at that girl \u2013 when she looked at me to see her mother responsible for killing babies and women, I wish I could forget that look in Kelly's eyes, but it's there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She was how old at the time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> Seventeen, almost 18.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Obviously, in the years since then, you and Kelly have talked about this a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> We've gone through a lot on this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What's her thinking today about what her mom was involved with, about what she was involved with and about where you are today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> My children strongly support what I do.\u00a0 I got an e-mail from my son yesterday telling me that he was proud of what I do, and Kelly has probably, without question, been my strongest supporter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Carol:<\/strong> She went on to live her life, and got very busy, and I know has struggled with this.\u00a0 For instance, she had a two-year period of infertility, and I know that she had to question \u2013 because even though I knew better, I was saying, \"Lord, Lord, is this what I must endure?\"\u00a0 And then when a friend of hers had a Down syndrome baby, Kelly struggled greatly and became very angry at this woman for even contemplating a termination.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, I have to wonder how many husbands and wives are dealing with conflict in their marriage, and they don't know what the source of it is \u2013 how many women today wonder why they feel depressed, and they don't have any sense of where that's coming from.\u00a0 I have to wonder what the hidden legacy of abortion over the last 30 years has been in families.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And in the next generation.\u00a0 I'm sitting here listening to this, Carol, and listening to your story, and I'm thinking there is only One who forgives sin.\u00a0 I mean, how could anyone ever come to the point of feeling forgiven if you didn't know there was a God who saw it all, who knows everything, and it's the God who became a man.\u00a0 In fact, the image I was having was of the story of Jesus when they lowered the paralytic down through the roof, and He said, \"Your sins are forgiven,\" and the people didn't believe He had the right to say that because only God could say that, and so he said, \"Which is easier?\u00a0 To say your sins are forgiven or to take up your pallet and walk.\"\u00a0 And the guy started walking.\u00a0 He was paralyzed.\u00a0 And, of course, the miracle was the authentication that he had the right, had the authority, to forgive sin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I think of what you've been through and of what I've been through of all my sin, but Romans 8:1, you quoted it earlier \u2013 \"There is, therefore, now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.\u00a0 There is a God who promises to declare us not guilty.\"\u00a0 Now, you think about that \u2013 that's sounds impossible.\u00a0 That's why He's God, and we're not.\u00a0 He is the one who says, \"You know what?\u00a0 If you come to me in faith, trusting my Son, Jesus Christ, for forgiveness of sin, that I will remove your sin as far as the East from the West.\u00a0 I will take your sins though they be as scarlet and make you white as snow.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, one of the sections in Randy Alcorn's book, \"Pro-Life Answers to Pro-Choice Arguments,\" which is a book, Carol, that you have endorsed and recommended.\u00a0 He's got a section in here called \"Finding Forgiveness After an Abortion,\" which is a profound need for anyone who has been touched by this tragedy, whether it's been a father or an unwed mother or an abortion provider \u2013 finding forgiveness in an abortion culture is a profound need for many people.\u00a0 And, as you've said, Dennis, ultimately, that forgiveness can only come from one place \u2013 that cleansing can only happen when God chooses to cleanse us from all unrighteousness because of the finished work of His Son and how that is applied to our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'd just encourage listeners who may have been touched by this issue personally, to get a copy of Randy's book.\u00a0 Again, it's called \"Pro-Life Answers to Pro-Choice Arguments.\"\u00a0 We have it in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 You can go to our website, which is FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 Information you need about the book is available right there.\u00a0 Again, it's called \"Pro-Life Answers to Pro-Choice Arguments.\"\u00a0 We also list other resources that are available on our website to try to help you with this issue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com.\u00a0 You can also call, if that's easier, 1-800-358-6329 is the number, and that's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY \u2013 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 When you get in touch with us, someone on the team will answer any questions you have about the resources that are available, and they can make arrangements to have what you need sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me say a quick word to that group of our listeners who not only listen regularly to FamilyLife Today but also help support this ministry, and we hope that some of you who are regular listeners and have not supported the ministry will consider doing that.\u00a0 In each city where FamilyLife Today is heard, probably fewer than 10 percent of those who listen regularly provide the financial support to keep FamilyLife Today on the air on this station and on other stations, and we want to say thank you, if you are part of that group, for your past support, and we want to let you know, if you are able, to help with a donation of any amount this month.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe'd love to send you, as a thank you gift, Dennis and Barbara Rainey's daily devotional guide for couples, which is called \"Moments With You\" \u2013 365 daily devotions designed to draw you closer to one another and closer to God in the process.\u00a0 There are discussion questions each day, prayer topics each day, along with the devotional that you can read together.\u00a0 Again, it's our gift to you when you help support the ministry of FamilyLife Today this month with a donation of any amount.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you're making your donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com, when you come to the keycode box on the donation form, type in the word, \"moments.\"\u00a0 If you are calling 1-800-FLTODAY to make your donation over the phone, just mention that you'd like the book, \"Moments With You,\" and we'd be delighted to send it to you.\u00a0 We do so much appreciate your partnership with us and your support of the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow Carol Everett is going to be back with us, and we're going to continue to look at how we can respond to the issue of abortion in our culture today, now more than 35 years past the Roe versus Wade decision, and I hope you can be with us for that dialog.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas \u2013 help for today; hope for tomorrow.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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