{"id":301746,"date":"2009-01-15T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2009-01-15T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/love-turns-to-hate\/"},"modified":"2009-01-15T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2009-01-15T17:00:00","slug":"love-turns-to-hate","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/love-turns-to-hate\/","title":{"rendered":"Love Turns to Hate"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Rob and Laurie had been apart for six years, and now that they were together again life would be blissful.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2009-01-15.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"15.72M","filesize_raw":"16482630","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2863],"tags":[5019,2877,4515],"podcast_series":[7627],"cwp_profile":[9152],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301746","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-saving-a-marriage","tag-alcoholism","tag-marriage","tag-rebellion","podcast_series-love-renewed-rob-and-laurie-kopf","cwp_profile-rob-and-laurie-kopf","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301746\/love-turns-to-hate","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301746\/love-turns-to-hate","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"uwhvdvwc5J\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/love-turns-to-hate\/\">Love Turns to Hate<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/love-turns-to-hate\/embed\/#?secret=uwhvdvwc5J\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Love Turns to Hate&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"uwhvdvwc5J\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Rob and Laurie had been apart for six years, and now that they were together again life would be blissful.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2009-01-15.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you register for one of these conferences today or tomorrow, you and your spouse register at the regular rate, we are going to make available to you at no additional cost, a certificate that will enable another couple to attend either with you or on their own absolutely free.\u00a0 We'll send that certificate to you when you register, again, either today or tomorrow to attend one of the upcoming spring conferences on our website at FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 There is a link to the area of the site where you can get information about when the conference is going to be in a particular city.\u00a0 Or if it's easier, you can call 1-800-FLTODAY, talk to someone on our team.\u00a0 They'll answer any questions that you have about the conference, or they can make arrangements to get you registered right over the phone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd, again, if you and your spouse register at the regular rate for one of the conferences this spring, we're going to send you a certificate so that you can invite a friend, a son or a daughter or a relative, somebody you know who could really benefit from attending one of these conferences.\u00a0 This is an exceptional offer that or team has put together, but it expires tomorrow.\u00a0 Call us today or go online and register today at FamilyLifeToday.com and then plan to attend an upcoming Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference when it comes to a city near where you live and join us for a Weekend to Remember. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, registering for one of these conferences might be a way to take care of your assignment here on Day Number 11 in our Love Dare.\u00a0 We are following the book, \"The Love Dare,\" that was a part of the movie, \"Fireproof,\" which was in theaters back in the fall and is going to be out on DVD fairly soon.\u00a0 Today's verse, Ephesians 5:28, \"Husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies,\" and today we're considering how love cherishes another person.\u00a0 And how can you demonstrate that you cherish your spouse?\u00a0 Well, you can sign up for a Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference, or you can follow this assignment \u2013 just think about a need that your spouse has that you could meet today.\u00a0 Is there an errand you could run?\u00a0 Could you give your spouse a back rub or a foot massage?\u00a0 Is there some housework you could help out with?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFind a small gesture that you could do that says, \"I cherish you,\" and then do it with a smile and with a positive attitude.\u00a0 That's your Love Dare assignment for today, and if you'd like to get a copy of the book, \"The Love Dare\" and follow along with us as we work our way up to Valentine's weekend, you can go, again, to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com and order a copy of the book directly from us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we're going to be re-introduced today to a couple of friends who actually attended a Weekend to Remember conference now more than two decades ago, and it was at a pretty critical point in their marriage.\u00a0 But given the details of their marriage and some of the history that they've been through, Dennis, it's remarkable to sit down with this couple and hear how God intervened in their lives and in their relationship with one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Rob and Laurie Kopf join us on the broadcast for a second day. Rob, Laurie, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Laurie:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You two brought us into a story that was incredible \u2013 a story of two teenage rebels who fell madly in love with one another, who ran off to get married from New Jersey to Las Vegas, tried to elope, whose parents reeled them back in, who broke them up, whose lives separated for a period of time \u2013 Laurie, you then got married, had a child, had a problem with drugs, ended up getting divorced a couple of years later.\u00a0 Rob, in the meantime, you developed a problem with alcohol, and you fell in love with a bottle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, her divorce brought back the option of you two getting back together again, which you did.\u00a0 And yesterday on the broadcast what we talked about was the state of a relationship where you two had decided to get back together, but you were outside of God's will.\u00a0 Take us into the start of that relationship then.\u00a0 How long did you live with one another before you decided to get married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> Well, when we decided to get married, Laurie was living in New Jersey, and by state law in New Jersey you have to be separated 18 months before you can be divorced, and I didn't want to wait that long while I was still in Philadelphia.\u00a0 So I quit my job in Philadelphia and moved back to New Jersey, and we rented a house with a friend of ours, and Laurie's son, with the four of us for a year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLaurie got divorced in August of '82, and we got married in October of '82.\u00a0 One of the funny things was that her mom did insist that we at least wait until the divorce was finalized before we sent out the invitations.\u00a0 She thought that was the proper thing to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So you had a big church wedding?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> We had a church wedding, though a lot of my friends came, a lot of our friends had come, but it was a dry wedding, and that was extremely distressful to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yeah, in fact, Laurie, you had asked Rob for two things on your wedding day, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Laurie:<\/strong> Mm-hm.\u00a0 I asked that he be sober and that he wouldn't wear his earring for the pictures.\u00a0 But I remember, as we stood up there saying our vows, I had to hold his hand with two hands to keep it from shaking, because he was going through withdrawal, and he was having a difficult time that day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we made it through the wedding, and it really was a nice wedding that our parents gave us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Did that trouble you that he was going through the DTs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Laurie:<\/strong> Well, yes.\u00a0 Before we got married, the whites of his eyes would get yellow, and it really took me a little while to figure out he had a problem.\u00a0 But I finally realized when he could drink a case of beer and go out and buy more, he had a problem.\u00a0 And I remember one time getting ready for a date, getting all dressed up, and we were going to go out, and we were two blocks away, and he didn't want to go, he didn't feel good.\u00a0 And he would just get, like, \"I've got to get home.\"\u00a0 He'd be okay if he was back at the house and in normal, you know, familiar surroundings.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I told him he needed to go to a doctor.\u00a0 I wasn't going to be divorced and a widow by the time I was 25, and I made him go to a doctor.\u00a0 Well, that doctor told him that his liver was already beginning to harden, and if he didn't quit drinking right away, he was going to be dead, and so he promised me he would stop drinking, and I took him at his word, and we got married.\u00a0 But it was only a couple \u2013 actually, on our honeymoon he got drunk that night.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> The wedding night?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> I had been sober long enough.\u00a0 It lasted about 5:00 that night.\u00a0 We bought a bottle of champagne on the way to the honeymoon, and I just chugged down the bottle in the car on the way to the honeymoon.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So you didn't fight the DTs very long, then?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> No.\u00a0 I held up my part of the bargain.\u00a0 The wedding was over, the pictures were over, the earring went back in, I started getting drunk, that was my life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Amazing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you guys head off on your honeymoon thinking, \"This is it.\u00a0 The culmination\" \u2013 I mean, \"no two people were ever more meant for one another.\u00a0 We're going to live happily ever after?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yeah, the two people who tried to elope in Las Vegas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> We were the American dream.\u00a0 We were the high school sweethearts that finally got married.\u00a0 A couple of our friends had all chipped in and bought us a couple of ounces of pot for a wedding present.\u00a0 We had in the seat between us.\u00a0 I had my bottle of champagne, and we were on our way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> At the FamilyLife Marriage Conference, you know, we talk about relationships moving through phases \u2013 from a honeymoon phase to a transitional phase to a kind of reality phase and then down to a rejection phase.\u00a0 How long, Laurie, did it take to go from honeymoon to reality to rejection?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Laurie:<\/strong> Oh, I'd say it took that \u2013 it took a year.\u00a0 By the end of our first year, I \u2013 my love had turned to hate.\u00a0 I hated him.\u00a0 I mean, I think we just both hated each other.\u00a0 I felt betrayed.\u00a0 I felt, basically, that he was having his affair with alcohol.\u00a0 He didn't care where I was or what I was doing as long as he had his beer and ESPN.\u00a0 And it didn't matter what I was doing, I mean, he didn't care.\u00a0 I think he felt more relieved when I left the house, because then he could be alone with himself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you'd not seen that prior to marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Laurie:<\/strong> Oh, yeah, I had, but, you know, you see things through rose-colored glasses.\u00a0 You think it's going to be great if you just get married.\u00a0 And it just doesn't work that way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I started to work in a warehouse, and I loved my job, and I was a very judgmental person I think from high school on.\u00a0 I mean, if you were doing something, I'd say, \"You're terrible for smoking cigarettes,\" which I ended up doing.\u00a0 \"You're terrible for getting high, how could you do that?\"\u00a0 Well I started to get high.\u00a0 And I would judge people for \u2013 a lot of these guys at the warehouse had affairs, and I thought that was awful.\u00a0 \"How could you do that to your wife?\u00a0 They're so sweet, they're at home waiting for you,\" and I judged all of those guys.\u00a0 I thought it was awful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, you know, by the end of \u2013 I was there, I guess, three years, and by the end of that time, there was a guy there who I would never have considered, and he just \u2013 you know, he'd be there to listen to me, and I'd share things, you know, about, you know, terrible Rob at home, and we got closer together at work, and I ended up having an affair with this guy.\u00a0 And I got to the point where I didn't care what happened to him anymore.\u00a0 I just wanted somebody to love Laurie for who she was \u2013 just being myself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I realized later that stuff wasn't going to work either, but I remember going home, and I decided, \"I'm going to tell him, because I want him to kick me out.\u00a0 I just want out.\"\u00a0 And I went home that night, and I told him \"I just want you to know that\" \u2013 I don't know the exact words I used, but \"I've been seeing somebody else, and I don't want to be married anymore.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we had a big fight, and I really \u2013 I told him basically to end the marriage.\u00a0 But something happened where I think he realized just how much he'd hurt me and alienated me totally.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, as you were sharing that, Laurie, I thought how a simple gesture of the attention of another man was a statement of acceptance of you, as a person, and how that's what we long for in marriage, and if we don't get that in a marriage relationship, how we're vulnerable to any act or any gesture of compassion or of acceptance or of love and how that can lead to a connection of the heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRob, I've got to ask you \u2013 at that point where you aware you were deficient in accepting Laurie at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> I probably was aware and was glad for the relationship that we had, because Laurie's \u2013 our marriage didn't interfere with my drinking any longer.\u00a0 She would go off on what she would call union meetings.\u00a0 She was part of a union at the warehouse, and she'd go off on these union meetings, I thought that would be great.\u00a0 I would stay home, put Calen to bed, get my case, and watch ESPN.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd she's right \u2013 I did emotionally reject her, I sexually rejected her, and as perverted as I was, as degenerate as I was, there was no emotional \u2013 I mean, I was upset, I was more \u2013 my pride was hurt, my manly pride was hurt, you know, \"How dare you,\" you have all these images, because I knew who this guy was, and you have all these images of what was going on.\u00a0 But it was also \u2013 I was kind of \u2013 I made lemonade out of lemons by saying, \"I'm going to use this.\u00a0 I'm going to put this up my sleeve.\u00a0 This is an ace that I have.\u00a0 I'm going to put this up my sleeve, and I'm going to use this as a weapon for the rest of our marriage,\" because I refused to think \u2013 now, this happened back in 1983 \u2013 I refused to believe that I was in any way responsible for her affair.\u00a0 She was just tramping around.\u00a0 Some guy just had the hots for her, they got together, and, you know, Laurie is pretty lucky that I even stayed around.\u00a0 That was my thoughts.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And so you refused to forgive her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> I refused to forgive her, and I refused to kick her out because I wanted a marriage that didn't interfere with my drinking, and now I had this tremendous weapon.\u00a0 And it still hurt, I mean, it hurt me, but I would drink it away.\u00a0 It wouldn't hurt as long as I was drunk, so I just continued to drink.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How long did your marriage go on like this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> With the drinking or the affair?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> With the drinking, with the hatred, with the tension, with the \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> The drinking \u2013 about another eight or nine months; with the hatred, with the ace up my sleeve, 14 years I used that as a tool.\u00a0 Whenever we were getting into a fight that I was losing, I'd bring it up, and I'd say, \"Well, it wasn't as bad as what you did with so-and-so,\" and I'd always win the fight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, I want to talk about that before we're finished, but I also want to talk about what was going on in your marriage.\u00a0 Did God finally get your attention and bring you to the end of yourselves before this thing exploded?\u00a0 I mean, I'm wondering what kept you from shooting each other at that point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Laurie:<\/strong> I think right after we'd had this big fight about the affair, it wasn't long after that that Rob made a commitment.\u00a0 He stopped drinking, and we decided to try to find a church to go to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you get some help?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> The story that I stopped drinking July 4, 1984, my Independence Day, was that my best friend across the street, my drinking buddy, he invited me over to his house for the Fourth of July, and we drank all day.\u00a0 Then we got our cases for the nighttime, and we finished our cases at night, and it was about 2:00 in the morning, and Laurie was there, and his wife was there, and the four of us were just kind of hanging out in their house, and Bernie and I started calling around to bars to try to get more beer.\u00a0 And we couldn't find any bars that were open because the Fourth of July they close early.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI got so upset that I started trashing Bernie's house, and he was so drunk, he started joining me, and so we started just trashing his house.\u00a0 We started, like, tearing telephones out of walls and throwing furniture and just clearing tables with our arms, and we were just \u2013 we were mad that how dare they be closed when we wanted to go out and get beer, because we went to all the bars in the area and couldn't find anybody that was open.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, Laurie ran across the street to our house and went to bed, and Bernie's wife went to bed, and the next morning, I remember waking up and remembering, sort of, what had happened that night before.\u00a0 And all along the time that led up to this, I found out about the affair about February, so about February until about July, I knew that \u2013 you know, here it was, less than two years after this wedding that I had dreamt for forever \u2013 within two years I had totally alienated my wife, I had made her hate me, led her into another guy's arms, and here I had trashed my best friend's house.\u00a0 And I knew that I was out of control, I knew I was totally out of control, and that's the day that I stopped drinking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Just like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> Just like that.\u00a0 It was a choice.\u00a0 Drinking is a choice.\u00a0 Alcoholism is a choice, it's not a disease, it's a choice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And it was the trashing of a friend's house \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> It was the trashing of the friend's house but also with the realization of what I had done to my wife \u2013 watching my wife run across the street screaming, \"You're out of control.\u00a0 I hate you.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you have a couple of days of shakes?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> I still get the shakes.\u00a0 I went through \u2013 I went through \u2013 how many months of DTs?\u00a0 I mean, where, literally, I was just sitting there.\u00a0 For the longest time, we'd go to church or a movie, I'd have to sit on the outside seat.\u00a0 I can't sit on the inside seat.\u00a0 Laurie knows when I'm getting the shakes, she can recognize it still even now, years later, and it's a consequence of my sin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Spiritually speaking, did that bring about a sense of renewal \u2013 that commitment, that decision to move toward reality and away from denial and alcohol and making it your god?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> Laurie had been prodding me for quite some time to say, \"We need to get back \u2013 you know, we need to take Calen to a church.\"\u00a0 She was pregnant now with our child at this time.\u00a0 And we had been trying to go find a church, and we finally found one, but the problem was, see, we still had our old friends.\u00a0 So we had these friends come over, and say \"We're not going to get high anymore.\u00a0 We'd appreciate it if you don't.\"\u00a0 Oh, well, sure, so they went outside to get high outside, and they'd come back in.\u00a0 And we thought, \"Well, this isn't working out,\" and we just had our old life tugging at us, pulling at us, always trying to bring us back into that old life.\u00a0 This had been years.\u00a0 I mean, we are now 26, 27 years old, and we still had that old life.\u00a0 So that's when we decided we had to move, literally, out of that part of the country.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe moved to Norman, Oklahoma, to be with Laurie's brother, Bruce Hess, who was pastoring a church at Wildwood Community Church in Norman.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Laurie:<\/strong> What happened with Wildwood was they invited us to go to this FamilyLife conference, and we were still having problems even when we moved to Norman.\u00a0 We'd have an argument, and he'd throw his ace out and say a lot of mean things, and we just really couldn't communicate.\u00a0 We couldn't have an intimate communication of the heart because he was still angry, which I can understand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we went to the big Dallas conference in 1986, and we went with a group from our church.\u00a0 My brother was there and fought the entire time we were there.\u00a0 And at one point, Rob, I think, left the building, and basically we sat there and listened, but we didn't do any projects, and we didn't talk to each other at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Dennis was speaking, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Laurie:<\/strong> Mm-hm.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> By Saturday night date night, her brother and his wife asked us to go out to dinner with them, and Laurie says, \"Well, I'm going to go.\"\u00a0 And I said, \"Fine, I'm not.\"\u00a0 So they went out to dinner, and I went up to the room and watched the ball game.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Was that because you were so ticked off at her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> Oh, sure.\u00a0 We were so upset with each other, so mad.\u00a0 I remember telling Bruce at that conference, you know, divorce sounds real good right now, and that's where our relationship was.\u00a0 Here we are at a FamilyLife conference, and I'm thinking divorce sounds real good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What were you ticked off about?\u00a0 Was it just everything in general or something specific?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> Well, it didn't take a whole lot to get us upset with each other at the time.\u00a0 We weren't communicating.\u00a0 I was still upset with her because whenever I brought my ace out, she would always mention that maybe I had something to do with that, and I said, \"Well, that's totally non-acceptable.\u00a0 I don't accept any responsibility for that.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo then we go to this conference, and we hear about 50-50 plans, and we hear about my responsibility and her responsibility, and I'm hoping she's listening, and I don't want to listen, and she's hoping that I'm listening, and the more truth we heard, the more Satan fought us, and the more I didn't want to be there.\u00a0 I was having too good of a time fighting and thinking about maybe it's not too late to get divorced.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Too good of a time fighting? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rob:<\/strong> But I remember the one thing I did take away from that conference was how \u2013 and Dennis spoke of this \u2013 as a man, as the leader of my family, I was responsible.\u00a0 And ultimately I was the one who was going to be held accountable.\u00a0 And my dad, he always held me accountable for everything \u2013 everything that went on in my life growing up.\u00a0 And when I heard that God is going to hold me accountable, whether I accept that or not, that's one thing that Dennis continued to say is whether you accept these truths or not, they're still true, and you can't run away from that.\u00a0 And that's the one blossoming seed that I took away with right away \u2013 that I'm the real one responsible, and that's when I started getting back into what do I have to do?\u00a0 What is my role as a father, as a dad, as a husband?\u00a0 What do I need to do to please God?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was one verse that's in James 4:17, where it says, \"If a person knows what the right thing to do and does not do it, it is sin.\"\u00a0 And I used to hate that verse, because it was so convicting.\u00a0 And I remember that verse just staring at me, haunting me in front of that manual, because we did look through the manual.\u00a0 We didn't do any projects, but I did look through the manual.\u00a0 I remember that verse just like it was just a neon sign saying, \"You know what's right, and if you don't do it, it's sin.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, Rob, as you were saying that, I was thinking what a Gospel.\u00a0 What a Gospel.\u00a0 This is what Jesus Christ does \u2013 is He reaches down in people's lives who are absolutely a mess, that are broken, who can't fix them by themselves, and He can do what they can't do if we'll just start responding at that point that He calls us, and that's what you did, and that's why you're here today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yeah, and we have seen God do that same thing so many times.\u00a0 In fact, you guys have had the chance to see God do it as you've now attended Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences in your capacity here as staff at FamilyLife, and now you're on the other side, but you'll watch how God works in some pretty dark circumstances.\u00a0 I mean, some of the couples who are coming to the conference \u2013 not most of them but some of them are coming in a very difficult marital situation, and yet we've seen God do some powerful breakthrough stuff at a Weekend to Remember.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we're hoping that today and tomorrow our listeners will take advantage of this special offer we're making to FamilyLife Today listeners this week, and they will register for an upcoming conference.\u00a0 We're kicking off the conference season on Valentine's weekend in about eight or nine cities including Hershey, Pennsylvania; and Dallas, Texas at the Gaylord Texan; and at a resort in Albuquerque, New Mexico; and in Washington, D.C.; and then conferences are continuing throughout the spring.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if you register as a couple today, and you register at the regular registration rate, we're going to send you, along with your registration, a certificate that is good for another couple to attend a conference of their choice at no additional cost.\u00a0 So it really is a buy one get one free kind of arrangement that we're making with listeners.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you want to take advantage of this, though, we need to hear from you today.\u00a0 Tomorrow is the cutoff date for this special offer for FamilyLife Today listeners.\u00a0 So either sign up on our website, FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FLTODAY and get registered over the phone.\u00a0 We can answer any questions you have about the conference, but we do hope you'll take advantage of this very special offer.\u00a0 Register as a couple at the regular rate, and we'll send you a companion couple certificate so another couple can attend at no additional cost.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, all the details are available on our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, or call us at 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY and plan to join us for a Weekend to Remember.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd plan to join us back tomorrow as well, if you can.\u00a0 Rob and Laurie Kopf are going to be here, and we're going to hear the conclusion of their story and hear about some of your experience attending a Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference.\u00a0 That's coming up tomorrow, and I hope you can be back with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas \u2013 help for today; hope for tomorrow.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/301746","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=301746"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=301746"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=301746"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=301746"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=301746"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=301746"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=301746"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}