{"id":301659,"date":"2008-08-28T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2008-08-28T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/avoiding-traps-of-ineffective-discipline\/"},"modified":"2008-08-28T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2008-08-28T15:00:00","slug":"avoiding-traps-of-ineffective-discipline","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/avoiding-traps-of-ineffective-discipline\/","title":{"rendered":"Avoiding Traps of Ineffective Discipline"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>On today&#8217;s broadcast, Preparing the Way Ministries founder and mother of two, Ginger Plowman, talks about some parenting techniques that are, in her opinion, ineffective and unbiblical.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-08-28.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"12.4M","filesize_raw":"13005538","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2839,2852],"tags":[4759,4798,2209],"podcast_series":[7473],"cwp_profile":[9031],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301659","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-attitude-problems","category-discipline","tag-discipline","tag-kids","tag-parenting","podcast_series-dont-make-me-count-to-three","cwp_profile-ginger-plowman","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301659\/avoiding-traps-of-ineffective-discipline","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301659\/avoiding-traps-of-ineffective-discipline","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"jtHeDSCkqJ\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/avoiding-traps-of-ineffective-discipline\/\">Avoiding Traps of Ineffective Discipline<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/avoiding-traps-of-ineffective-discipline\/embed\/#?secret=jtHeDSCkqJ\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Avoiding Traps of Ineffective Discipline&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"jtHeDSCkqJ\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-08-28.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-08-28.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> A lot of times we fall into threatening, and this usually comes after we have repeated our instructions several times to no avail, and so we pull out the big gun \u2013 it's \"If you don't start sharing your toys right now, I'm going to send them all off to kids who will share.\"\u00a0 This teaches them that Mommy doesn't mean what she says.\u00a0 I mean, how many of our parents, in an attempt to get us to appreciate our toys, talked about the kids on the other side of the world who don't have any toys?\u00a0 We need to say what we mean and mean what we say.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, August 28th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll talk today about some other things not to do and some things to do as you discipline your children.\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition.\u00a0 I think there is a universal experience that everyone's had \u2013 you've been in the supermarket, you've been at the Wal-Mart, you're walking down the aisles, and you see a parent disciplining \u2013 I hate to even use the word, \"disciplining,\" but you know what I mean \u2013 a parent who is trying to deal with a child \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> To get them under control, they grab their ear and start pulling them toward the counter, they yell at them \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You watch this in horror.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\u00a0 It's demeaning to a child.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yeah, and it seems like the only thing the parent knows how to do or \u2013 it's really one of those things, everybody's been there and kind of wanted to go up and tap the parent on the shoulder and say, \"You know, you need some help.\u00a0 This isn't going to work.\u00a0 You need someone to give you some counsel on what to do if you've got an issue with your child, but it's not what you're doing right here.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That's right, and we have someone with us to help you know what to do.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We're going to send her around to the supermarkets and the Wal-Marts of the world and make it your mission, Ginger, to just go correct \u2013 have you ever done that in a supermarket?\u00a0 Have you ever talked to a parent?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> I've been tempted but, no, I don't butt in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You don't pull your book out of your purse and say, \"Here, take this, please, read.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, it really is tempting to say something because you just want to step up to protect the child.\u00a0 It really isn't fair to the child.\u00a0 And then you wonder, as I leave Wal-Mart or wherever I've been, and I've seen it occur, you wonder what's happening behind closed doors.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> If they treat their children \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> \u2026 in public that way \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2026 that way, you just wonder what's happening at home.\u00a0 Well, Ginger Plowman does join us again here on FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 She's been talking about her new book, \"Don't Make Me Count to Three,\" which is a book to really equip moms and dads around the subject of various aspects of discipline.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne time you were standing in line at a Chik-Fil-A restaurant \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> I was, Dennis.\u00a0 It was interesting what happened with that situation.\u00a0 I was standing there with my children in line, and there was a mom standing in the line next to me with her two small children, and just, all of a sudden, one sibling just rares back and slaps the other sibling upside the head.\u00a0 And this mom looked at her son as if he had turned into a green three-headed alien, and she said, \"Why do you act like that?\"\u00a0 And I didn't, but I wanted to butt in and say, \"Because he's a sinner.\u00a0 Why wouldn't he act like that?\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And he's got no consequences for acting like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> That's right.\u00a0 The question is not \"Why does he act like that?\"\u00a0 The question is what are you going to do about it?\u00a0 Are you going to use this opportunity to train him in what's right, or are you going to make excuses?\u00a0 And tragically what she did was she began to make excuses.\u00a0 She looks around at some of the people standing in line and, for some reason, she felt the need to tell all of us that her son was just so tired.\u00a0 \"He hasn't had a nap, and he's really hungry,\" and at this point I wanted to say, \"Well, I'm tired and hungry, too, but I'm not going to slap you upside the head.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou see, there is nothing in the Scriptures to validate the neglect of training because a child is tired or hungry.\u00a0 They sin not because they are tired or hungry, but because they are sinners, and God has placed parents as the authority over them to teach them \u2013 not to make excuses for their behavior.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You are convinced that there are a lot of techniques that parents are attempting to use in training their children that are not only ineffective, but they're unbiblical in the way parents are approaching this, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> Right, but, unfortunately, they've become very popular.\u00a0\u00a0 I know one that we all see quite often when we're out in public is bribing.\u00a0 You see moms bribing the child trying to get him to behave the way she wants him to.\u00a0 Not too long ago I saw a mom in Wal-Mart, and her two-and-a-half or three-year-old took off running in the other direction and mom, in desperation, calls out, \"Come to Mommy, and I'll give you a sucker,\" and immediately the child goes from hearing impaired to exceptional hearing and comes quickly to Mom's side.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, you see, giving them a reward in order to get them to obey encourages them in selfishness, because their motive for obeying is \"I'll obey for what I can get out of it.\"\u00a0 And that's a selfish motive.\u00a0 Children should be taught to obey because it's right and because it pleases God \u2013 not to get a reward.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So you would not use positive motivation for the right behavior?\u00a0 You wouldn't come up with a scenario where you say, \"Listen, we're going into the store.\u00a0 You act this way, and when we get home, we'll have ice cream.\"\u00a0 You wouldn't do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> Well, I would not, because the reason they would obey, if that was the offer, is for selfish reasons.\u00a0 They would say, \"Well, I'm going to obey because this is what I'll get.\u00a0 That's a selfish reason to obey.\u00a0 They need to obey because it's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What if you're just trying to break bad habits, though?\u00a0 I mean, in our family, from time to time there would be an issue that just seemed like it was \u2013 well, it was like chicken pox.\u00a0 It got passed around to all the kids, and they all had it at the same time, and you're just trying to break \u2013 you're trying to break the habits, and we came up with a nickel jar or a dime jar, and we just said, \"You know, every time you complain, we're going to take a nickel or a dime out of the jar, and at the end of this week, we're all going to go out and celebrate with the money that's left.\"\u00a0 Anything wrong with that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I don't think that's bribing, I think that is encouraging them to do what's right.\u00a0 I think there's a difference when you say, \"Okay, we need to work on complaining in our family, and so this is what we're going to do,\" and you establish the nickel jar.\u00a0 But I think that there is a difference in having a goal that you're wanting them to reach and looking forward to going out with the family and spending that money.\u00a0 There's a difference in that and just simply using bribing to get a child to comply.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When our kids were little, most of them went through a phase where they'd wake up in the middle of the night, and they'd come into Mom and Dad's room, right, and after a while you're kind of tired of that, and so we used the positive reinforcement.\u00a0 As we'd put them to bed, we'd say, \"You know, if you wake up, and you're scared, and you need to come see Mom and Dad, that's fine, but if you sleep all night or if you stay in your bed all night, and you don't get out when you wake up, we'll give you a quarter in the morning.\"\u00a0 Now, again, that feels like less of a bribe and more of a \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> That's not a bribe.\u00a0 That's more of an incentive.\u00a0 It was a teaching tool.\u00a0 It was a motivation, and you are using that motivation not only to help stop the behavior but also to train the child in what's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What about the other side of the bribe?\u00a0 What about instead of the positive reinforcement, what about the threat that says, \"If you don't do\" \u2013 \"When your dad gets home,\" or \"When we get out to the car\" or whatever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \"If you don't stop doing that\" \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That's right \u2013 \"Here are the consequences that are coming.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> A lot of times we fall into threatening, and this usually comes after we have repeated our instructions several times to no avail, and so we pull out the big gun \u2013 \"If you don't start sharing your toys right now, I'm going to send them all off to kids who will share.\"\u00a0 But, see, this teaches them that Mommy doesn't mean what she says.\u00a0 I mean, how many of our parents, in an attempt to get us to appreciate our toys, talked about the kids on the other side of the world who don't have any toys?\u00a0 But then how many of our parents actually packed up our toys and sent them off to Timbuktu?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need to avoid saying things that we don't mean and, I'll tell you, it wasn't too long ago that I caught myself threatening my children.\u00a0 I said, \"If you guys don't hurry up and get these rooms cleaned up, you are not spending the night with your grandparents tonight.\"\u00a0 But I knew good and well I wasn't about to follow through with that threat and forfeit my date night with my husband.\u00a0 We need to say what we mean and mean what we say.\u00a0 In Matthew it says, \"Let our yes be yes and our no be no.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It really is an issue of integrity and following through on what you promise, because if you don't do that, they're not going to be able to trust you long haul.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, there's another aspect of \u2013 well, I hate to call it \"worldly parenting,\" but that really is what it is, ultimately, it's being trained by the world's system, and that's reasoning with small children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is one that my mom today would still tell you, \"This is what you ought to do.\u00a0 You sit the child down, you reason with the child, that's the best method of discipline.\"\u00a0 What would you say to my mom?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> Reasoning with small children causes confusion to me, because it erases the line of who is the parent and who is the child.\u00a0 I think it's better to clearly instruct small children in what they need to do and then expect them to do what you say.\u00a0 Just like a mom might say, \"Sweetie, don't you want to come and eat your hot dog now?\"\u00a0 \"Oh, no, Mom, I think I'll wait.\u00a0 I'm playing with my cars.\"\u00a0 \"Oh, but, Sweetie, your hot dog is going to get cold if you don't come eat it now.\"\u00a0 \"Oh, I think I'd rather just play.\"\u00a0 \"Well, I thought if you would go ahead and come eat lunch, then we might have time to go to the park after lunch.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> A bribe \u2013 you moved from reasoning to bribing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> You moved from reasoning to bribing.\u00a0 And so parents that try to reason with small children usually end up outwitted.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because the small child \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2026 is in control.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And doesn't have the same reasoning capability, and they're acting on impulse.\u00a0 So you try to reason with them on why this makes good long-term sense, they're not thinking long term, they're just thinking right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> Right, and it's amazing how they can outsmart Mom when she gets on that level, that peer level with the child and tries to reason with him.\u00a0 Children are more secure when they know the instructions, and then they are expected to abide by those instructions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think you have to go back to the Scripture and just take a look at what it says about children.\u00a0 It says children are a gift from God.\u00a0 They are given to parents, and they are a reward.\u00a0 They are also a responsibility.\u00a0 That means the parent must remain the parent and must be the person in charge taking the child somewhere.\u00a0 If you get down on a child's level and try to reason with them, you've given up your role as parent.\u00a0 Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't try to communicate with the child.\u00a0 That's not what we're saying here, but to simply make it a matter of mind-to-mind, and that's the kind of training you provide for your children \u2013 that simply will not work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> I agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And I can imagine a mom might be saying at this point, Ginger, \"Okay, you don't reason with the child.\u00a0 What do you do, then?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> You give the child clear instructions in a way that he understands, and you require a response, and then you expect the child to follow through with your instructions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And if they don't?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> So instead of \"Don't you want to come and eat lunch now?\"\u00a0 It would be, \"Sweetheart, it's time to come eat.\u00a0 Come in the kitchen.\"\u00a0 And see the difference?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right, and if they don't come to lunch?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> If they don't come, then it's \"Honey, have you obeyed or disobeyed?\"\u00a0 \"How did you disobey?\"\u00a0 \"How does God want you to obey?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now we're moving into the instruction and the correction, and we've talked this week about spanking as a method of correction.\u00a0 You don't necessarily think that's the exclusive method of correction, do you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> I don't.\u00a0 I actually think that spanking \u2013 God does talk about spanking.\u00a0 It says do not withhold discipline from a child.\u00a0 If you punish him with a rod, he will not die.\u00a0 Punish him with a rod and save his soul from death.\u00a0 However, the Scriptures are also full of other instructions for parents.\u00a0 Spanking is a very small part of discipline.\u00a0 The important thing is that we are reaching their heart; that we're not just training them in what not to do but we're following through and training them in what to do, because that's what training them in righteousness is all about \u2013 that we are equipping them to evaluate their own hearts and discern matters of their own hearts and preparing them to govern their own actions in a way that pleases God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How do you, as a mom, decide whether this infraction is worthy of corporal punishment or some other form of discipline, and if there is another form of discipline, what might it be?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, the Bible certainly doesn't talk about time out and things like that.\u00a0 It does talk about the rod, and I think with smaller children, that is the most effective means of discipline.\u00a0 The rod is somewhat of a mystery in how it works, but we can be confident that if we are obeying God and working on the bottom, God is honoring our obedience, and He is working on the heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo \u2013 to answer your question if I think there are other means of discipline, I think that as the child gets older, you are certainly going to move into other means of discipline that are going to be more effective for the older child.\u00a0 But for a small child, things are really black and white.\u00a0 You are either obeying or disobeying, and there needs to be a consistent consequence so that the child knows what to expect.\u00a0 The child that knows what to expect is a secure child.\u00a0 It's the child who doesn't know when you're going to discipline that's walking on eggshells, and it's a sad thing because those children are the ones that their discipline is based on the mood or the emotion of the parent.\u00a0 A secure child is a child that knows his boundaries and is consistently corrected when he oversteps those boundaries.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And there were certain things in our family that we spanked for.\u00a0 One was lying, and we based these pretty much from Proverbs, chapter 6, where it talks about seven things God hates.\u00a0 One was lying.\u00a0 Another one was biting, where one bit the other and drew blood or didn't draw blood, because there's a statement in there that God hates those who bring bloodshed.\u00a0 He's talking about violence, and I think it's just not right.\u00a0 They shouldn't be allowed to do that.\u00a0 They need to learn that they can't bring pain to someone else without experiencing pain themselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we moved out of some of those types of punishments, however, we would begin to take away toys.\u00a0 If, for instance, they had taken a toy away from a brother or a sister, we would not only make them give that toy back and apologize for taking it, but then we would perhaps take away one of their favorite toys for a period of time and say, \"You know what?\u00a0 Because you've stolen this toy, you're going to lose the privilege of playing with your own toy.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBarbara and I actually came up with a list that we used on a 3x5 card and used Scotch tape to put it inside our cupboards to give her alternatives other than spanking.\u00a0 In the heat of the moment, where she could open the cupboard door and see, \"Take them to their room.\u00a0 Set them on their bed until they quit crying.\u00a0 Remove the audience.\u00a0 Take them to the other room if they're pitching a fit.\"\u00a0 It may be a penalty of an extra chore, like washing windows, cleaning out the car, cleaning the toilet when they got older.\u00a0 That was an interesting one to see a young teenager have to get some latrine duty for an attitude problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> Right, I agree, I agree.\u00a0 And we did that, too.\u00a0 There were certain times that, especially if they began to get older where we felt like other consequences were not only more appropriate but also more effective.\u00a0 I know \u2013 and I still do this to this day \u2013 my son is 13, my daughter is 10, but they'll go through periods where they are not treating each other with the respect that we require in our family.\u00a0 They get in these little ruts where they're kind of criticizing one another and arguing with one another, and one consequence that we do when that happens is we say that if they can't treat each other as friends, then they lose the privilege of spending time with other friends for a week or until we can see an improvement in the way that they're treating one another, and at our house we always have friends over.\u00a0 We always have a gang of kids at our house, so that's a big deal to them \u2013 to go one week where they can't have any friends over so that they can work on their own friendship.\u00a0 So, see, that's an appropriate consequence to the struggle that they're having.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can think of another time that my son left \u2013 kept leaving his bike out.\u00a0 After he had ridden his bike during the day, instead of putting it in the garage, which is where he is supposed to put it, he kept leaving it out in the front yard.\u00a0 And so for three days he lost the privilege of riding his bike.\u00a0 So there's always appropriate consequences that fit the crime.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I don't mean to keep coming back to the issue of spanking, but I do know that there are folks \u2013 well, you've seen this happen when you speak. You bring up the subject, and folks tune out.\u00a0 They're not going to listen to you anymore.\u00a0 I've had people say, \"I don't think hitting is the right thing to do, because hitting teaches hitting, and that's not what you want to be training your children in.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou've heard the Christians who object to the idea of spanking.\u00a0 How do you respond to them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> I just give them the Word of God.\u00a0 People sometimes take what they want to hear from God's Word, and then they ignore the rest.\u00a0 But God's Word does call us to use the rod in disciplining our children.\u00a0 God has ordained two means to assist us in reaching the hearts of our children, and they are the rod and the reproof.\u00a0 And so the rod is a part of discipline, and so I simply tell them the Scriptures that God says about the rod.\u00a0 One is Proverbs 13:24 that says, \"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline.\"\u00a0 Not abusive but \"careful to discipline.\"\u00a0 And so often, unfortunately, even Christians are missing it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, anytime you talk about a controversial subject like spanking, you're going to find people in this culture because, as we just said, where they've come from or maybe an inaccurate perception of the process where they've never really had it explained in a way that makes sense from the Scripture.\u00a0 But, you know, I've found that the Bible really is healthy when applied, as you've just talked about, in a gracious, kind, compassionate manner but with firmness and with boundaries.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd my great fear today among parents is that we're raising a generation of children where families have become very child-centric, and the family is revolving around the children rather than the children being trained and raised to know how to, first of all, know how to deal with their own wrong attitudes and their negative behavior, their weaknesses in their own flesh, because they're related to us as parents.\u00a0 They're going to have some.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was one of the disappointing things to me as Barbara and I raised our kids.\u00a0 We began to see that they inherited some of our tendencies and some of our weaknesses.\u00a0 And it was interesting, as we raised them, to look at our kids and go, \"You know, I'm trying to correct that in my son, but I have that same problem.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, it's what God is up to.\u00a0 I think He's growing us up as we grow our children up and as we help them deal with their issues in their lives, and I think it's all about God doing a work in all of our hearts.\u00a0 I think that's what parenting is all about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And we've said this before on FamilyLife Today, and you mentioned it just a minute ago, but one of the key issues that parents have got to address is the issue of who is at the center of your home.\u00a0 Is it your child?\u00a0 Is what the child wants driving everything else in the home?\u00a0 Is it you?\u00a0 Are you at the center of your home?\u00a0 And that can be equally wrong.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe real answer to that should be that God and His Word are at the center of your home, and you, as the wiser parent, are applying God's Word and teaching God's Word and correcting using God's Word as you raise your children.\u00a0 And more and more, as they grow to maturity, they're beginning to learn how to apply this themselves so that they can move out into the world, out from underneath your parenting and still operate on the principles that were central to your home as you were raising them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the title of Ginger's book, that I think helps us do that, as parents, is \"Don't Make Me Count to Three,\" and we've got the book in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 You can go to our website, FamilyLife.com, and on the right side of the screen you'll see a button that says \"Today's Broadcast.\"\u00a0 Click through that button, and it will take you to an area of our website where you can find out more about Ginger's book and about the No More Whining resource that Ginger has put together that I think is a great resource to help parents deal with this issue of whining in a very practical way.\u00a0 And the information about it is on the website.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is also information about a new Mom Blog that we've put together here at FamilyLife, and this week a lot of moms are blogging together about the subject of discipline.\u00a0 So you can find out more about that when you go to our website at FamilyLife.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you're interesting in these resources, you can also give us a call at 1-800-FLTODAY, that's 1-800-358-6329, 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and when you get in touch with us, someone on our team will let you know how you can have the resources you need sent to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I want to say thanks to those listeners who have already responded this month to our Family First challenge campaign.\u00a0 This has been a lot of fun.\u00a0 We've had listeners making end-of-summer donations to FamilyLife Today, and your donations have been very helpful.\u00a0 We appreciate your financial support of this ministry and your generosity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn addition to the donations, a lot of listeners have been issuing challenges to other listeners, like the one mom who called in who is in a blended family situation and has faced some challenges in that situation, and she said, \"You guys have been helping me figure out how to do this right.\u00a0 I appreciate your ministry.\u00a0 I want to make a donation, and I want to challenge other families who are in a blended situation to consider making an end-of-summer donation to FamilyLife Today in the Family First challenge campaign.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo thanks to those of you who have already called.\u00a0 The campaign is winding down.\u00a0 If you can help us with a donation this week either online at FamilyLife.com or by calling 1-800-FLTODAY, we would appreciate your support, and we appreciate hearing from you.\u00a0 Thanks for partnering with us here in the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we're going to talk about what you have told us is the number-one issue you're wrestling with as you raise your children, and that's this issue of whining, and we'll talk more about how you get a handle on that in your home.\u00a0 I hope you can join us back for that tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas \u2013 help for today; hope for tomorrow.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t_______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["12.4M"],"filesize_raw":["13005538"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-301659.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-301659.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: 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today's broadcast, Preparing the Way Ministries founder and mother of two, Ginger Plowman, talks about some parenting techniques that are, in her opinion, ineffective and unbiblical.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-08-28.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> A lot of times we fall into threatening, and this usually comes after we have repeated our instructions several times to no avail, and so we pull out the big gun \u2013 it's \"If you don't start sharing your toys right now, I'm going to send them all off to kids who will share.\"\u00a0 This teaches them that Mommy doesn't mean what she says.\u00a0 I mean, how many of our parents, in an attempt to get us to appreciate our toys, talked about the kids on the other side of the world who don't have any toys?\u00a0 We need to say what we mean and mean what we say.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, August 28th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll talk today about some other things not to do and some things to do as you discipline your children.\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition.\u00a0 I think there is a universal experience that everyone's had \u2013 you've been in the supermarket, you've been at the Wal-Mart, you're walking down the aisles, and you see a parent disciplining \u2013 I hate to even use the word, \"disciplining,\" but you know what I mean \u2013 a parent who is trying to deal with a child \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> To get them under control, they grab their ear and start pulling them toward the counter, they yell at them \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You watch this in horror.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\u00a0 It's demeaning to a child.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yeah, and it seems like the only thing the parent knows how to do or \u2013 it's really one of those things, everybody's been there and kind of wanted to go up and tap the parent on the shoulder and say, \"You know, you need some help.\u00a0 This isn't going to work.\u00a0 You need someone to give you some counsel on what to do if you've got an issue with your child, but it's not what you're doing right here.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That's right, and we have someone with us to help you know what to do.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We're going to send her around to the supermarkets and the Wal-Marts of the world and make it your mission, Ginger, to just go correct \u2013 have you ever done that in a supermarket?\u00a0 Have you ever talked to a parent?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> I've been tempted but, no, I don't butt in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You don't pull your book out of your purse and say, \"Here, take this, please, read.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, it really is tempting to say something because you just want to step up to protect the child.\u00a0 It really isn't fair to the child.\u00a0 And then you wonder, as I leave Wal-Mart or wherever I've been, and I've seen it occur, you wonder what's happening behind closed doors.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> If they treat their children \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> \u2026 in public that way \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2026 that way, you just wonder what's happening at home.\u00a0 Well, Ginger Plowman does join us again here on FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 She's been talking about her new book, \"Don't Make Me Count to Three,\" which is a book to really equip moms and dads around the subject of various aspects of discipline.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne time you were standing in line at a Chik-Fil-A restaurant \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> I was, Dennis.\u00a0 It was interesting what happened with that situation.\u00a0 I was standing there with my children in line, and there was a mom standing in the line next to me with her two small children, and just, all of a sudden, one sibling just rares back and slaps the other sibling upside the head.\u00a0 And this mom looked at her son as if he had turned into a green three-headed alien, and she said, \"Why do you act like that?\"\u00a0 And I didn't, but I wanted to butt in and say, \"Because he's a sinner.\u00a0 Why wouldn't he act like that?\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And he's got no consequences for acting like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> That's right.\u00a0 The question is not \"Why does he act like that?\"\u00a0 The question is what are you going to do about it?\u00a0 Are you going to use this opportunity to train him in what's right, or are you going to make excuses?\u00a0 And tragically what she did was she began to make excuses.\u00a0 She looks around at some of the people standing in line and, for some reason, she felt the need to tell all of us that her son was just so tired.\u00a0 \"He hasn't had a nap, and he's really hungry,\" and at this point I wanted to say, \"Well, I'm tired and hungry, too, but I'm not going to slap you upside the head.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou see, there is nothing in the Scriptures to validate the neglect of training because a child is tired or hungry.\u00a0 They sin not because they are tired or hungry, but because they are sinners, and God has placed parents as the authority over them to teach them \u2013 not to make excuses for their behavior.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You are convinced that there are a lot of techniques that parents are attempting to use in training their children that are not only ineffective, but they're unbiblical in the way parents are approaching this, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> Right, but, unfortunately, they've become very popular.\u00a0\u00a0 I know one that we all see quite often when we're out in public is bribing.\u00a0 You see moms bribing the child trying to get him to behave the way she wants him to.\u00a0 Not too long ago I saw a mom in Wal-Mart, and her two-and-a-half or three-year-old took off running in the other direction and mom, in desperation, calls out, \"Come to Mommy, and I'll give you a sucker,\" and immediately the child goes from hearing impaired to exceptional hearing and comes quickly to Mom's side.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, you see, giving them a reward in order to get them to obey encourages them in selfishness, because their motive for obeying is \"I'll obey for what I can get out of it.\"\u00a0 And that's a selfish motive.\u00a0 Children should be taught to obey because it's right and because it pleases God \u2013 not to get a reward.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So you would not use positive motivation for the right behavior?\u00a0 You wouldn't come up with a scenario where you say, \"Listen, we're going into the store.\u00a0 You act this way, and when we get home, we'll have ice cream.\"\u00a0 You wouldn't do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> Well, I would not, because the reason they would obey, if that was the offer, is for selfish reasons.\u00a0 They would say, \"Well, I'm going to obey because this is what I'll get.\u00a0 That's a selfish reason to obey.\u00a0 They need to obey because it's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What if you're just trying to break bad habits, though?\u00a0 I mean, in our family, from time to time there would be an issue that just seemed like it was \u2013 well, it was like chicken pox.\u00a0 It got passed around to all the kids, and they all had it at the same time, and you're just trying to break \u2013 you're trying to break the habits, and we came up with a nickel jar or a dime jar, and we just said, \"You know, every time you complain, we're going to take a nickel or a dime out of the jar, and at the end of this week, we're all going to go out and celebrate with the money that's left.\"\u00a0 Anything wrong with that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I don't think that's bribing, I think that is encouraging them to do what's right.\u00a0 I think there's a difference when you say, \"Okay, we need to work on complaining in our family, and so this is what we're going to do,\" and you establish the nickel jar.\u00a0 But I think that there is a difference in having a goal that you're wanting them to reach and looking forward to going out with the family and spending that money.\u00a0 There's a difference in that and just simply using bribing to get a child to comply.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When our kids were little, most of them went through a phase where they'd wake up in the middle of the night, and they'd come into Mom and Dad's room, right, and after a while you're kind of tired of that, and so we used the positive reinforcement.\u00a0 As we'd put them to bed, we'd say, \"You know, if you wake up, and you're scared, and you need to come see Mom and Dad, that's fine, but if you sleep all night or if you stay in your bed all night, and you don't get out when you wake up, we'll give you a quarter in the morning.\"\u00a0 Now, again, that feels like less of a bribe and more of a \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> That's not a bribe.\u00a0 That's more of an incentive.\u00a0 It was a teaching tool.\u00a0 It was a motivation, and you are using that motivation not only to help stop the behavior but also to train the child in what's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What about the other side of the bribe?\u00a0 What about instead of the positive reinforcement, what about the threat that says, \"If you don't do\" \u2013 \"When your dad gets home,\" or \"When we get out to the car\" or whatever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \"If you don't stop doing that\" \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That's right \u2013 \"Here are the consequences that are coming.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> A lot of times we fall into threatening, and this usually comes after we have repeated our instructions several times to no avail, and so we pull out the big gun \u2013 \"If you don't start sharing your toys right now, I'm going to send them all off to kids who will share.\"\u00a0 But, see, this teaches them that Mommy doesn't mean what she says.\u00a0 I mean, how many of our parents, in an attempt to get us to appreciate our toys, talked about the kids on the other side of the world who don't have any toys?\u00a0 But then how many of our parents actually packed up our toys and sent them off to Timbuktu?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need to avoid saying things that we don't mean and, I'll tell you, it wasn't too long ago that I caught myself threatening my children.\u00a0 I said, \"If you guys don't hurry up and get these rooms cleaned up, you are not spending the night with your grandparents tonight.\"\u00a0 But I knew good and well I wasn't about to follow through with that threat and forfeit my date night with my husband.\u00a0 We need to say what we mean and mean what we say.\u00a0 In Matthew it says, \"Let our yes be yes and our no be no.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It really is an issue of integrity and following through on what you promise, because if you don't do that, they're not going to be able to trust you long haul.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, there's another aspect of \u2013 well, I hate to call it \"worldly parenting,\" but that really is what it is, ultimately, it's being trained by the world's system, and that's reasoning with small children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is one that my mom today would still tell you, \"This is what you ought to do.\u00a0 You sit the child down, you reason with the child, that's the best method of discipline.\"\u00a0 What would you say to my mom?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> Reasoning with small children causes confusion to me, because it erases the line of who is the parent and who is the child.\u00a0 I think it's better to clearly instruct small children in what they need to do and then expect them to do what you say.\u00a0 Just like a mom might say, \"Sweetie, don't you want to come and eat your hot dog now?\"\u00a0 \"Oh, no, Mom, I think I'll wait.\u00a0 I'm playing with my cars.\"\u00a0 \"Oh, but, Sweetie, your hot dog is going to get cold if you don't come eat it now.\"\u00a0 \"Oh, I think I'd rather just play.\"\u00a0 \"Well, I thought if you would go ahead and come eat lunch, then we might have time to go to the park after lunch.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> A bribe \u2013 you moved from reasoning to bribing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> You moved from reasoning to bribing.\u00a0 And so parents that try to reason with small children usually end up outwitted.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because the small child \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2026 is in control.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And doesn't have the same reasoning capability, and they're acting on impulse.\u00a0 So you try to reason with them on why this makes good long-term sense, they're not thinking long term, they're just thinking right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> Right, and it's amazing how they can outsmart Mom when she gets on that level, that peer level with the child and tries to reason with him.\u00a0 Children are more secure when they know the instructions, and then they are expected to abide by those instructions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think you have to go back to the Scripture and just take a look at what it says about children.\u00a0 It says children are a gift from God.\u00a0 They are given to parents, and they are a reward.\u00a0 They are also a responsibility.\u00a0 That means the parent must remain the parent and must be the person in charge taking the child somewhere.\u00a0 If you get down on a child's level and try to reason with them, you've given up your role as parent.\u00a0 Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't try to communicate with the child.\u00a0 That's not what we're saying here, but to simply make it a matter of mind-to-mind, and that's the kind of training you provide for your children \u2013 that simply will not work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> I agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And I can imagine a mom might be saying at this point, Ginger, \"Okay, you don't reason with the child.\u00a0 What do you do, then?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> You give the child clear instructions in a way that he understands, and you require a response, and then you expect the child to follow through with your instructions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And if they don't?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> So instead of \"Don't you want to come and eat lunch now?\"\u00a0 It would be, \"Sweetheart, it's time to come eat.\u00a0 Come in the kitchen.\"\u00a0 And see the difference?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right, and if they don't come to lunch?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> If they don't come, then it's \"Honey, have you obeyed or disobeyed?\"\u00a0 \"How did you disobey?\"\u00a0 \"How does God want you to obey?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now we're moving into the instruction and the correction, and we've talked this week about spanking as a method of correction.\u00a0 You don't necessarily think that's the exclusive method of correction, do you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> I don't.\u00a0 I actually think that spanking \u2013 God does talk about spanking.\u00a0 It says do not withhold discipline from a child.\u00a0 If you punish him with a rod, he will not die.\u00a0 Punish him with a rod and save his soul from death.\u00a0 However, the Scriptures are also full of other instructions for parents.\u00a0 Spanking is a very small part of discipline.\u00a0 The important thing is that we are reaching their heart; that we're not just training them in what not to do but we're following through and training them in what to do, because that's what training them in righteousness is all about \u2013 that we are equipping them to evaluate their own hearts and discern matters of their own hearts and preparing them to govern their own actions in a way that pleases God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How do you, as a mom, decide whether this infraction is worthy of corporal punishment or some other form of discipline, and if there is another form of discipline, what might it be?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong>\u00a0 Well, the Bible certainly doesn't talk about time out and things like that.\u00a0 It does talk about the rod, and I think with smaller children, that is the most effective means of discipline.\u00a0 The rod is somewhat of a mystery in how it works, but we can be confident that if we are obeying God and working on the bottom, God is honoring our obedience, and He is working on the heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo \u2013 to answer your question if I think there are other means of discipline, I think that as the child gets older, you are certainly going to move into other means of discipline that are going to be more effective for the older child.\u00a0 But for a small child, things are really black and white.\u00a0 You are either obeying or disobeying, and there needs to be a consistent consequence so that the child knows what to expect.\u00a0 The child that knows what to expect is a secure child.\u00a0 It's the child who doesn't know when you're going to discipline that's walking on eggshells, and it's a sad thing because those children are the ones that their discipline is based on the mood or the emotion of the parent.\u00a0 A secure child is a child that knows his boundaries and is consistently corrected when he oversteps those boundaries.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And there were certain things in our family that we spanked for.\u00a0 One was lying, and we based these pretty much from Proverbs, chapter 6, where it talks about seven things God hates.\u00a0 One was lying.\u00a0 Another one was biting, where one bit the other and drew blood or didn't draw blood, because there's a statement in there that God hates those who bring bloodshed.\u00a0 He's talking about violence, and I think it's just not right.\u00a0 They shouldn't be allowed to do that.\u00a0 They need to learn that they can't bring pain to someone else without experiencing pain themselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we moved out of some of those types of punishments, however, we would begin to take away toys.\u00a0 If, for instance, they had taken a toy away from a brother or a sister, we would not only make them give that toy back and apologize for taking it, but then we would perhaps take away one of their favorite toys for a period of time and say, \"You know what?\u00a0 Because you've stolen this toy, you're going to lose the privilege of playing with your own toy.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBarbara and I actually came up with a list that we used on a 3x5 card and used Scotch tape to put it inside our cupboards to give her alternatives other than spanking.\u00a0 In the heat of the moment, where she could open the cupboard door and see, \"Take them to their room.\u00a0 Set them on their bed until they quit crying.\u00a0 Remove the audience.\u00a0 Take them to the other room if they're pitching a fit.\"\u00a0 It may be a penalty of an extra chore, like washing windows, cleaning out the car, cleaning the toilet when they got older.\u00a0 That was an interesting one to see a young teenager have to get some latrine duty for an attitude problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> Right, I agree, I agree.\u00a0 And we did that, too.\u00a0 There were certain times that, especially if they began to get older where we felt like other consequences were not only more appropriate but also more effective.\u00a0 I know \u2013 and I still do this to this day \u2013 my son is 13, my daughter is 10, but they'll go through periods where they are not treating each other with the respect that we require in our family.\u00a0 They get in these little ruts where they're kind of criticizing one another and arguing with one another, and one consequence that we do when that happens is we say that if they can't treat each other as friends, then they lose the privilege of spending time with other friends for a week or until we can see an improvement in the way that they're treating one another, and at our house we always have friends over.\u00a0 We always have a gang of kids at our house, so that's a big deal to them \u2013 to go one week where they can't have any friends over so that they can work on their own friendship.\u00a0 So, see, that's an appropriate consequence to the struggle that they're having.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can think of another time that my son left \u2013 kept leaving his bike out.\u00a0 After he had ridden his bike during the day, instead of putting it in the garage, which is where he is supposed to put it, he kept leaving it out in the front yard.\u00a0 And so for three days he lost the privilege of riding his bike.\u00a0 So there's always appropriate consequences that fit the crime.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I don't mean to keep coming back to the issue of spanking, but I do know that there are folks \u2013 well, you've seen this happen when you speak. You bring up the subject, and folks tune out.\u00a0 They're not going to listen to you anymore.\u00a0 I've had people say, \"I don't think hitting is the right thing to do, because hitting teaches hitting, and that's not what you want to be training your children in.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou've heard the Christians who object to the idea of spanking.\u00a0 How do you respond to them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ginger:<\/strong> I just give them the Word of God.\u00a0 People sometimes take what they want to hear from God's Word, and then they ignore the rest.\u00a0 But God's Word does call us to use the rod in disciplining our children.\u00a0 God has ordained two means to assist us in reaching the hearts of our children, and they are the rod and the reproof.\u00a0 And so the rod is a part of discipline, and so I simply tell them the Scriptures that God says about the rod.\u00a0 One is Proverbs 13:24 that says, \"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline.\"\u00a0 Not abusive but \"careful to discipline.\"\u00a0 And so often, unfortunately, even Christians are missing it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, anytime you talk about a controversial subject like spanking, you're going to find people in this culture because, as we just said, where they've come from or maybe an inaccurate perception of the process where they've never really had it explained in a way that makes sense from the Scripture.\u00a0 But, you know, I've found that the Bible really is healthy when applied, as you've just talked about, in a gracious, kind, compassionate manner but with firmness and with boundaries.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd my great fear today among parents is that we're raising a generation of children where families have become very child-centric, and the family is revolving around the children rather than the children being trained and raised to know how to, first of all, know how to deal with their own wrong attitudes and their negative behavior, their weaknesses in their own flesh, because they're related to us as parents.\u00a0 They're going to have some.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was one of the disappointing things to me as Barbara and I raised our kids.\u00a0 We began to see that they inherited some of our tendencies and some of our weaknesses.\u00a0 And it was interesting, as we raised them, to look at our kids and go, \"You know, I'm trying to correct that in my son, but I have that same problem.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, it's what God is up to.\u00a0 I think He's growing us up as we grow our children up and as we help them deal with their issues in their lives, and I think it's all about God doing a work in all of our hearts.\u00a0 I think that's what parenting is all about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And we've said this before on FamilyLife Today, and you mentioned it just a minute ago, but one of the key issues that parents have got to address is the issue of who is at the center of your home.\u00a0 Is it your child?\u00a0 Is what the child wants driving everything else in the home?\u00a0 Is it you?\u00a0 Are you at the center of your home?\u00a0 And that can be equally wrong.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe real answer to that should be that God and His Word are at the center of your home, and you, as the wiser parent, are applying God's Word and teaching God's Word and correcting using God's Word as you raise your children.\u00a0 And more and more, as they grow to maturity, they're beginning to learn how to apply this themselves so that they can move out into the world, out from underneath your parenting and still operate on the principles that were central to your home as you were raising them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the title of Ginger's book, that I think helps us do that, as parents, is \"Don't Make Me Count to Three,\" and we've got the book in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 You can go to our website, FamilyLife.com, and on the right side of the screen you'll see a button that says \"Today's Broadcast.\"\u00a0 Click through that button, and it will take you to an area of our website where you can find out more about Ginger's book and about the No More Whining resource that Ginger has put together that I think is a great resource to help parents deal with this issue of whining in a very practical way.\u00a0 And the information about it is on the website.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is also information about a new Mom Blog that we've put together here at FamilyLife, and this week a lot of moms are blogging together about the subject of discipline.\u00a0 So you can find out more about that when you go to our website at FamilyLife.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you're interesting in these resources, you can also give us a call at 1-800-FLTODAY, that's 1-800-358-6329, 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and when you get in touch with us, someone on our team will let you know how you can have the resources you need sent to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I want to say thanks to those listeners who have already responded this month to our Family First challenge campaign.\u00a0 This has been a lot of fun.\u00a0 We've had listeners making end-of-summer donations to FamilyLife Today, and your donations have been very helpful.\u00a0 We appreciate your financial support of this ministry and your generosity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn addition to the donations, a lot of listeners have been issuing challenges to other listeners, like the one mom who called in who is in a blended family situation and has faced some challenges in that situation, and she said, \"You guys have been helping me figure out how to do this right.\u00a0 I appreciate your ministry.\u00a0 I want to make a donation, and I want to challenge other families who are in a blended situation to consider making an end-of-summer donation to FamilyLife Today in the Family First challenge campaign.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo thanks to those of you who have already called.\u00a0 The campaign is winding down.\u00a0 If you can help us with a donation this week either online at FamilyLife.com or by calling 1-800-FLTODAY, we would appreciate your support, and we appreciate hearing from you.\u00a0 Thanks for partnering with us here in the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow we're going to talk about what you have told us is the number-one issue you're wrestling with as you raise your children, and that's this issue of whining, and we'll talk more about how you get a handle on that in your home.\u00a0 I hope you can join us back for that tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas \u2013 help for today; hope for tomorrow.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t_______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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