{"id":301623,"date":"2008-07-11T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2008-07-11T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/debt-proof-your-kids-part-2\/"},"modified":"2008-07-11T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2008-07-11T15:00:00","slug":"debt-proof-your-kids-part-2","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/debt-proof-your-kids-part-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Debt-Proof Your Kids, Part 2"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>On today&#8217;s broadcast, Dennis Rainey talks with author Mary Hunt, an expert in money management and a contributing editor at Woman\u2019s Day magazine, about teaching your children financial responsibility.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-07-11.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"11.69M","filesize_raw":"12256506","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2850],"tags":[4925,4525,4853],"podcast_series":[7594],"cwp_profile":[9132],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301623","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-character-development","tag-budgets","tag-finances","tag-money","podcast_series-debt-proof-your-kids","cwp_profile-mary-hunt","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301623\/debt-proof-your-kids-part-2","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301623\/debt-proof-your-kids-part-2","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"v7jgm0d7pw\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/debt-proof-your-kids-part-2\/\">Debt-Proof Your Kids, Part 2<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/debt-proof-your-kids-part-2\/embed\/#?secret=v7jgm0d7pw\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Debt-Proof Your Kids, Part 2&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"v7jgm0d7pw\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-07-11.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-07-11.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If your children are in junior high or about to be there, are they old enough to be making some of their own financial decisions?\u00a0 Author Mary Hunt thinks so.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> We would give our children, at the beginning of the month, the money we intended to spend on them during the month and let them manage the money that we were going to spend on them, anyway.\u00a0 But our plan, and while everybody should make one that fits their own, I think is very important that children be allowed to make independent financial decisions that are significant while they are still within the safety net of the family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, July 11th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Today we'll offer some suggestions on how you can help your children become confident and competent money managers.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Friday edition.\u00a0 You know, Dennis, there are major American companies that are very interested in developing a relationship with your teenager.\u00a0 In fact, if you are getting ready to send a teenager off to college, one of the smiling faces that will greet them in the Student Union or somewhere on campus or one of the brochures they will find in their dorm room as they settle in this fall will be a brochure from a company that wants to give them that symbol of American adulthood \u2013 their very own credit card.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yeah, in fact, one of our staff at FamilyLife had a baby, and when the baby, I think, was three or four months old, somehow the baby had gotten on some kind of list.\u00a0 This is \u2013 he gave it to me, this is no joke.\u00a0 He received an application to apply for a major credit card \u2013 a three-month-old baby.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I've got to tell you, I read an article about a guy who decided to unlist his phone number but didn't want to pay the phone company for an unlisted number, so he just had the number put in the name of his dog, and so then he started getting credit card solicitations for his dog.\u00a0 You know, his dog was invited to have a $5,000 line of credit simply because he had a telephone number.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I'll tell you, we're laughing about this, but we get, in an average month, I would imagine, anywhere between five and 10 credit card applications for our children.\u00a0 They want the child on the hook.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We're going to give parents today a strategy for how they can help their kids be ready for that onslaught when it comes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes, that's correct.\u00a0 Mary Hunt joins us for a second day.\u00a0 Mary, welcome back to FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Oh, thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I wish our listeners could quickly listen to her story that she shared on yesterday's broadcast because she shared a story of how you and your husband were in more than $100,000 in credit card and consumer debt.\u00a0 You had more than 30 credit cards.\u00a0 In fact, so many you didn't know how many you had.\u00a0 It took you more than a dozen years to get out of all that debt, but God has used that because he's turned you into a cheapskate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Isn't that fabulous?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She heads up a ministry, it's actually called \"The Cheapskate Monthly.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> That's the name of my newsletter, that's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Explain to our listeners what's in that newsletter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, it's a 12-page newsletter, of course, it comes out every month, and I try to make sure it's filled with motivation, inspiration as in lots of practical tips, exact how-tos, how to get out of debt, and there's a lot of reader communication.\u00a0 Readers write in and tell their stories and their successes, and then that helps others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's like a support group by mail, I guess, for a lot of debtors in this country, and, I'm telling you, we're getting letters every single month of families now who are paying off their last debt \u2013 ecstatic, never dreamed in a million years they'd be able to call themselves debt-free, and we talk about unsecured consumer debt in that term \u2013 debt free.\u00a0 It is the most exciting thing that God could take the most embarrassing, shameful thing in my life, and turn it out to be something that He has been able to use to His glory.\u00a0 That's a miracle, right there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And she is so excited about it, Bob, because once she was blind but now she sees.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She was literally once enslaved to debt, and that's why she's so excited about it.\u00a0 She and her husband, Harold, have survived this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Yes, we have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And have now been married nearly 30 years.\u00a0 They have two sons, Jeremy and Josh, and there are some great stories in here about Jeremy and Josh.\u00a0 I've got to ask you here at the beginning \u2013 you've written a book called \"Debt-Proof Your Kids.\"\u00a0 You tell the story about Uncle Harvey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Isn't this amazing.\u00a0 Well, let me tell you, when my life fell apart in 1982, and I had this spiritual experience.\u00a0 I begged God to forgive me, and I promised I would do whatever it took to pay back this debt.\u00a0 I think the second greatest fear in my life \u2013 the first was that I was going to lose my family; the second fear was that my boys were going to turn out like me, because you know something?\u00a0 Families reproduce themselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Mm-hm.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> And I had this amazing insight \u2013 here they are, six and seven years old, realizing that children hear what we say, and they see what we do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> They were watching you run up that $100,000 worth of consumer debt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Oh, you bet they were.\u00a0 They saw Mommy getting anything she wanted whenever she wanted it and, all of a sudden, those ugly attitudes of entitlement were starting to poke out of my children.\u00a0 More was never enough, they always wanted everything, and when they got it, it was never enough.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, Christmas morning would come, and they'd open all their gifts, and you would see these attitudes of \u2013 no appreciation, no gratitude, you know, like, \"Well, what else can we have,\" you know?\u00a0 Oh, that was just heartbreaking to me, and I saw this in my children, and I thought, \"Oh, Lord, help us, help us to turn this thing around.\u00a0 Is it too late?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, my husband and I in our whole thing, you know, over the next few months as we were talking, I shared this with him.\u00a0 \"What if the boys turn out like us?\"\u00a0 And, all of a sudden, we started to remember and reminisce about his Uncle Harvey.\u00a0 Now, let me tell you quickly about Uncle Harvey.\u00a0 My husband's oldest uncle had four sons.\u00a0 Of course, my husband's cousins now, but they were much older than he, so there were always these stories in the family.\u00a0 They lived a continent away from us.\u00a0 They lived in Eastern Canada, so we did not know them personally, but we had heard these amazing stories about Uncle Harvey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat he would do is on January 1st of every year, he would give to his sons, in cash, all the money he intended to spend on them for the entire year.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> At what age were the sons?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> I don't know, I don't know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That was a part of the story.\u00a0 You weren't allowed to know the facts.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> I didn't know that part.\u00a0 I envisioned they were teenagers.\u00a0 They were very close in age, I know that, so I'm thinking junior high, high school, I don't know.\u00a0 But it was such an amazing thing, because the children didn't have the same personality types.\u00a0 He had one son who was a total spendthrift.\u00a0 By February he didn't have a dime left.\u00a0 He had to go get a job because Uncle Harvey's rules were you can live here, you can eat here, I will be your dad, we are your family, but if you need money, you're on your own, kid.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen they had another son who was an absolute cheapskate, wouldn't spend a dime.\u00a0 He'd rather save than do anything.\u00a0 He wouldn't buy new shoes, wouldn't get his hair cut, a real embarrassment to his mother, but they kept their mouth shut.\u00a0 Now, here is the important thing about the story.\u00a0 All four of these men have turned out to be fantastic, unbelievable, adults \u2013 astute businessmen, very successful in their businesses, beautiful families, not a divorce among them, fabulous children, and we're thinking, \"There's go to be something here.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, and I can only imagine that he taught them how to manage their money.\u00a0 I didn't know all of those details, but we had enough of the story to think there is something there.\u00a0 And so Harold and I sat down, and we came up with a plan where we would use Uncle Harvey as our inspiration.\u00a0 And then we would devise our own Hunt Kid Financial Plan.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd basically it was this \u2013 that we would give our children at the beginning of the month, the money we intended to spend on them during the month, and let them manage the money that we were going to spend on them, anyway.\u00a0 That's the broad description.\u00a0 How we actually did this, though, is the subject of the book, and I tell you, step by step by step, all the stories of what happened \u2013 some of them are hilarious.\u00a0 I was scared to death that we had made a huge mistake, but our plan, and while everybody should make one that fits their own, I think it's very important that children be allowed to make independent financial decisions that are significant while they are still within the safety net of the family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, we've done something similar with our kids, giving them a certain amount of money and saying, clothing and entertainment, all of that, you're on your own for, and I have said to a couple of our kids from time to time, \"Would you prefer that I give you a lump sum once a year?\u00a0 That you get that big deposit, and you've got it there to manage, and that way you'd have some money\" \u2013 this usually comes about when they're looking for some kind of a big purchase right away, you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right, right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I say, \"I'll give you your money for the year, if you'd prefer that.\"\u00a0 Usually, they back off from that real quick.\u00a0 There is something inside of them that knows \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \"I need the discipline.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \"I can't be trusted yet.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That's exactly right.\u00a0 You gave this money to Jeremy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There is a great story about Jeremy having eight cents left.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Yes.\u00a0 Well, we had some definite rules, and our boys had to go through boot camp, and we tried to give big, grownup terms to our program.\u00a0 We didn't put our children on allowance, we put them on salary.\u00a0 Now, this elevated what we were doing to something very, very respectful.\u00a0 There were some hard and fast rules.\u00a0 Number one, they had to give away 10 percent.\u00a0 They had to save 10 percent in a savings account in a bank.\u00a0 It couldn't be in their room, it had to be in a real bank.\u00a0 With what was left, they could do what they wanted.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\"Do what I want, Mom?\"\u00a0 \"You can spend it anything you want, but here is the kicker.\"\u00a0 We had a list of things we would no longer pay for.\u00a0 Now, in the very first year, we started this at the beginning of grade 6.\u00a0 I think that's a good time for boys, 10, 11 years old, and on the list all things were optional.\u00a0 \"Kid optional\" is what we called them for the first year \u2013 things that didn't matter if they bought them or not.\u00a0 We didn't put their haircuts and things that were going to be essential, but things like their video games \u2013 everything a kid has their hand out for \u2013 their collections, their stuff at the store, their ticket to go to the movies with their friends \u2013 that kind of thing we put on the list.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we said, \"It's up to you whether you want to spend it or not,\" but they had to keep the rules.\u00a0 They had to give away 10 percent and save 10 percent.\u00a0 Well, now, that opened up a discussion.\u00a0 \"What do you mean, give it away?\u00a0 What do you mean give it away?\"\u00a0 \"You have to give it away.\"\u00a0 \"Well, where do I give it?\"\u00a0 \"You decide, you have to be the steward.\u00a0 Maybe you have a little friend whose daddy is out of work.\u00a0 They're really needy.\u00a0 Maybe your heart says 'I need to help them.'\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, then, that starts the question \u2013 \"Well, what about the homeless guy with the sign?\"\u00a0 Well, it's up to you.\u00a0 Do you think that's a good use?\u00a0 Do you think you're being a good steward?\"\u00a0 And then the question would always come, \"Well, do you and Daddy do that?\"\u00a0 \"Well, yes, we do.\"\u00a0 \"Well, where do you give?\"\u00a0 \"Well we give it to the church.\u00a0 We give it to God, because in His Word,\" and then that opens up that whole thing.\u00a0 \"But, Jeremy, it's up to you.\u00a0 You have to make the decision.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, the interesting things that both of our boys, of course, followed \u2013 our actions.\u00a0 And they made that decision to give to the church, and they have been givers since they were age 11.\u00a0 They've been marvelous savers.\u00a0 At the beginning of each school year, we had a whole plan, it was all written down \u2013 at the beginning of each school year they got a raise, a significant raise.\u00a0 But here's the deal \u2013 an event every year, their salary increased.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the time they were in high school, we didn't straight out pay for anything.\u00a0 They bought their own yearbooks, they paid for all their senior events, they did all their own gasoline, they did everything, including clothes.\u00a0 We put clothes on there because giving that freedom a little bit at a time, by this time, they were so frugal, they'd get the money, and then they'd go to the thrift store and buy their clothes.\u00a0 It embarrassed me to death, but I thought, \"You know what?\u00a0 They're making their own decisions, and this is the good thing.\u00a0 We are preparing them for life.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd once you start talking about money, oh, my goodness, the opportunities that arise.\u00a0 When those applications would come in the mail, we'd sit down and talk about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Are you talking about a credit card application?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> You bet.\u00a0 We'd say, \"Now, let's just imagine, you know, get out the calculators, guys.\u00a0 Let's say that we bought you this particular credit card they're offering us.\u00a0 Let's say we're going to buy a big screen TV.\u00a0 It's going to cost us $3,000, we're going to put it on the credit, we figure out the monthly payment, we figure how long, and it's going to take 18 years to pay this off?\u00a0 And, all of a sudden, they go, \"Who wants a TV for 18 years?\"\u00a0 They teach themselves when you open this thing up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would talk about newspaper articles.\u00a0 You can't believe what's in the news about credit cards.\u00a0 All you have to do is just start family discussions about it.\u00a0 Our boys both had checking accounts.\u00a0 We taught them that they had to have in their senior year in high school so they could start managing a checking account, very good exercise, and we talked about all of these things, and I've got to tell you, we have had a few years to experience how our program worked.\u00a0 And as opposite as our two boys are, they both turned out very financially confident.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me tell you, Jeremy is now 25 years old.\u00a0 He just purchased his first home as a single young man in Southern California, and the only trouble he had was qualifying for the mortgage was they couldn't understand why he had no debt \u2013 no student loans, absolutely no credit history of debt.\u00a0 Now, he has a credit card so he has established credit, but absolutely no history of debt.\u00a0 They called him four or five times, something doesn't add up here, you know, the computers can't handle this.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> But they are not used to seeing a person enter adulthood without debt, and it was the most exciting thing in our lives.\u00a0 Now, he doesn't make a tremendous amount of money.\u00a0 He has a good job, he has a good education, but the fact that he has no debt increases his spending ability, his living ability \u2013 it is just phenomenal to me how the absence of debt can improve your life so dramatically.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Let me ask you a question about your salary.\u00a0 Let's say your child finds a pair of tennis shows \u2013 ha, that would be a relevant subject \u2013 a boy who wants a pair of tennis shoes that probably cost $75 to $100 or more.\u00a0 Or maybe, you know, it's not that big, maybe it's a CD, and he's at the end of the month and doesn't quite have enough.\u00a0 Did you ever allow your children to borrow money from you to be able to purchase?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Never.\u00a0 I can say that without qualification \u2013 never.\u00a0 Because in the book \u2013 we had a book with all the rules.\u00a0 There would be no loans, there would be no advances.\u00a0 We taught our children that borrowing was not an option.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay, what if you're at the store, though, because this has happened to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I've got the money at home.\u00a0 Lend me the money here, I'll pay you back when we get home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> No, absolutely not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You wouldn't do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> No, absolutely not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You really are a cheapskate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Because why do that?\u00a0 You're breaking the rules.\u00a0 You're teaching your children that when they get in a pinch or they have a great need or desire that it's okay to spend money they don't have.\u00a0 No, we'll go home and get your money, and we'll come back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The benefits \u2013 there is an obvious benefit here, and parents know this \u2013 you didn't have to deal with kids coming to you and saying, \"Can I have money for this?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Never.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You never had that battle between whether you're going to give them money for this or not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> That's right, and never once did our boys say, \"Well, what did you do with the 20 bucks I gave you last night?\"\u00a0 And all of the friction that happens between parents and teenagers \u2013 it was not there.\u00a0 The adolescent years were the most beautiful, wonderful time of our lives.\u00a0 I really, truly believe that a lot of the friction between adolescents and their parents stems from this thing of, \"Mom, you're so cheap,\" and back to the thing about clothes.\u00a0 Before our kids went on salary, they were designer freaks.\u00a0 Well, what we did, along with our plan, was we had a list of what we would pay.\u00a0 It was our basics of what we \u2013 25 bucks was what we would pay for tennis shoes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if they wanted to by the $95 pair, fabulous \u2013 we'll take you there to try them on.\u00a0 Guess what?\u00a0 You get to pay the difference.\u00a0 I've got to tell you, it nipped that in the bud real fast.\u00a0 It's amazing what children can learn, how they will mature, and children want to be trusted.\u00a0 I think that is so important \u2013 they want to feel freedom, and they want to feel trust.\u00a0 This is a way that we could do both.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But weren't there times, Mary, when you had to bite your tongue and go, \"Ohhh, look at what you're wearing, ooooh.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There is one right here in the book, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yeah?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It's a story of Jeremy and a purchase that he made for $39.92.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> He had $40 to his name.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That's right, and all he had left was 8 cents to last him a month.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> That's right.\u00a0 It was the longest month of my life.\u00a0 I tell you, as a mother, I wanted more than anything to say \"We've made a huge mistake, my darling, I will give you anything you want just like we've always done,\" and biting my tongue.\u00a0 I still have the scars to prove it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Mm-hm.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Yes!\u00a0 That is so difficult to allow your children to make errors, to make poor judgment calls, but the best learning experiences \u2013 and it doesn't matter now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What did he buy for $39.92?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> A Star Wars toy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And he bought it at the first of the month?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> The very first day of his salary, that's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And he had 8 cents to last him the rest of the month.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> The entire month.\u00a0 He had to miss a birthday party, he missed video games.\u00a0 It was the most heartbreaking month of my life.\u00a0 He's only 11 years old \u2013 to see my child suffer.\u00a0 Never once did he ask for any more money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There was a little too much cruelty in your laugh was there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, I'm listening to a mother, you know?\u00a0 And you know what she's doing?\u00a0 I'm glad she's articulating this, because it is the mother, many times \u2013 or it can be the dad, I mean, we can be a softie, who bails them out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Oh, yeah, and we want to do that, and believe me, the credit card companies are counting on that.\u00a0 They know that parents bail their kids out.\u00a0 That's why they're giving them the credit cards without jobs, without co-signers, because they know parents will bail them out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, let me tell you, the second month with Jeremy \u2013 completely the opposite.\u00a0 The kid became the tightest cheapskate you've ever seen in your life.\u00a0 He missed a birthday party rather than buying a gift, and I'm going, \"Oh, this cannot be.\u00a0 I cannot raise this child this way.\u00a0 We've really made a mistake.\"\u00a0 But I've got to tell you, after a few months, the pendulum started to swing right in the middle, nice and easy.\u00a0 The kid started to manage his own life using money as the tool, and it was absolutely incredible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Dennis, at age 17, Amy got a letter in the mail from the bank from her checking account.\u00a0 There were insufficient funds in the account for the check that she had written.\u00a0 She came to me and \u2013 \"Dad, I don't know how this happened.\"\u00a0 I said, \"Have you ever taken money out of the ATM and not written it down?\"\u00a0 \"Maybe.\u00a0 I thought I had written them all down.\"\u00a0 Well, we went up and we asked for a printout, and we matched it up with what she had, and we found a couple of ATM withdrawals that hadn't made her deposit, and she had to pay, I forget what it was, $22 or something, for a bounced check?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yeah, they're expensive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was, like, a $12 check that she had to pay the $22 bounced check fee for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What a lesson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That's a small price to pay keeping them out of where you wound up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> That's right.\u00a0 And you know something about our boys \u2013 both of them saved far more than they were required to.\u00a0 In fact, they saved so much that each of them, when they turned 16, had enough money to buy a car \u2013 all cash.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, you can see, they lived some frugal months, but the payoff was incredible, and they taught themselves this kind of thing.\u00a0 I just cannot stress enough how important it is to allow your children to make some decisions on their own.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, those listeners who listened to yesterday's broadcast and hear where you came from yesterday, I think, what a different story.\u00a0 Talk about redemption, talk about deliverance from Egypt \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2026 for Mary and Harold, as a couple.\u00a0 I mean, you were delivered. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne last question I've got to ask you quickly \u2013 salary.\u00a0 You always mention the word \"salary.\"\u00a0 Is that tied to responsibilities that they have?\u00a0 You're paying them to do certain duties in the family?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> You know, that question comes up, and I'm sure there are many schools of thought, but for our plan it was not tied to that at all.\u00a0 This is how \u2013 we wanted to emulate real life.\u00a0 We looked at our family as a community, each one of us were a citizen of the community.\u00a0 As such, we had responsibilities within that community, within that home.\u00a0 Our boys had responsibilities, they had chores, they had salary as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut let me ask you this \u2013 if you're on the way to work, and you happen to be a little late, you get a speeding ticket.\u00a0 Your paycheck next Friday doesn't have a deduction from it for that speeding ticket.\u00a0 No, you get your paycheck, then you have to go on your own and pay for that citation.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we tried to do that.\u00a0 We would give our boys citations if they messed up.\u00a0 If something wasn't done, they got fined.\u00a0 They still got their salary, it was not docked, but they might have to pay a $10 fee.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, really, like for failing to carry out the garbage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Absolutely, absolutely.\u00a0 And, let me tell you, you stop speeding when you get to many speeding tickets, and that's exactly what happened.\u00a0 We did not dock their pay.\u00a0 We saw them as \u2013 and we called them \"certified,\" \"official\" family money managers.\u00a0 We were turning over to them a portion of our family's income to manage.\u00a0 Each person in the family had our own responsibility as part of the community, and that was how we looked at that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know that there are some families who don't believe in \u2013 you know, they would rather tie to chores.\u00a0 I don't think there's a problem with that as long as you've got a plan that's working.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, and what parent doesn't need a plan around finances today?\u00a0 Especially as you move into the teenage years, because if you don't have proactive plan, I promise you, your teenager has one for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And it's not a pleasant plan, either.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And, you know, I think back to how we got a plan when we first came through this with our children.\u00a0 We leaned into those who had been there before, and those who had learned along the way and had come up with wise strategies, and I think what Mary has put in her book, \"Debt-Proof Your Kids\" is exactly that kind of a wise strategy for parents, so that you can put a plan together and begin to help your children face what is going to be one of their big life-skill issues \u2013 how they handle money and credit cards and debt, the whole thing \u2013 getting them checking accounts and teaching them how to set money aside for different things.\u00a0 It's all a part of what we have to pass on to our children, and Mary's book, \"Debt-Proof Your Kids\" helps do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you'd like a copy, you can go to our website, FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 On the right side of the home page, you'll see a box that says \"Today's Broadcast,\" and if you click where it says \"Learn More,\" that will take you to an area of the site where you can find out how you can get a copy of Mary Hunt's book, \"Debt-Proof Your Kids,\" and, by the way, there is also a book called \"Debt-Proof Your Marriage,\" that is available on our website as well.\u00a0 It's from Mary Hunt, and if you'd like to get a copy of both books, let us know, and we'll make arrangements to have those sent out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf it's easier to call, 1-800-FLTODAY to request these resources, you can do that.\u00a0 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.\u00a0 When you get in touch with us, someone will let you know how you can get these resources, and we'll make arrangements to send them out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is one other resource I want to mention that we'd love to send out to you this month \u2013 we had an opportunity to sit down not long ago and talk with Nancy Leigh DeMoss about forgiveness.\u00a0 It's a big issue in a lot of families today, and Nancy has written a book called \"Choosing Forgiveness.\"\u00a0 We would love to send you this month a CD that features our conversation with Nancy on this subject, and we're making it available when you make a donation of any amount to the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are listener-supported, so those donations are critical for this radio program to continue on this station and on other stations all across the country.\u00a0 We also love hearing from you and, again, this month, when you make a donation of any amount, feel free to request the CD that features our conversation with Nancy Leigh DeMoss on forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you're donating online, there is a keycode box on the donation form.\u00a0 Just type the word \"forgive\" into that box, and we'll know to send you a copy of the CD, or call 1-800-FLTODAY to make a donation over the phone and mention that you'd like the CD on forgiveness or the CD with Nancy Leigh DeMoss.\u00a0 Again, we are happy to send it to you as our way of saying thank you for supporting the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 We appreciate hearing from you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 We hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend, and I hope you can join us back on Monday when we're going to begin a weeklong look at a subject that a lot of couples find themselves scratching their heads about \u2013 the subject of family planning.\u00a0 What's appropriate, what's not appropriate, what do we do with contraception?\u00a0 Should that be a part of our marriage?\u00a0 We'll talk about that beginning on Monday.\u00a0 I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you Monday for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas \u2013 help for today; hope for tomorrow.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["11.69M"],"filesize_raw":["12256506"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-301623.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-301623.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: 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today's broadcast, Dennis Rainey talks with author Mary Hunt, an expert in money management and a contributing editor at Woman\u2019s Day magazine, about teaching your children financial responsibility.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-07-11.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If your children are in junior high or about to be there, are they old enough to be making some of their own financial decisions?\u00a0 Author Mary Hunt thinks so.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> We would give our children, at the beginning of the month, the money we intended to spend on them during the month and let them manage the money that we were going to spend on them, anyway.\u00a0 But our plan, and while everybody should make one that fits their own, I think is very important that children be allowed to make independent financial decisions that are significant while they are still within the safety net of the family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, July 11th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Today we'll offer some suggestions on how you can help your children become confident and competent money managers.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Friday edition.\u00a0 You know, Dennis, there are major American companies that are very interested in developing a relationship with your teenager.\u00a0 In fact, if you are getting ready to send a teenager off to college, one of the smiling faces that will greet them in the Student Union or somewhere on campus or one of the brochures they will find in their dorm room as they settle in this fall will be a brochure from a company that wants to give them that symbol of American adulthood \u2013 their very own credit card.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yeah, in fact, one of our staff at FamilyLife had a baby, and when the baby, I think, was three or four months old, somehow the baby had gotten on some kind of list.\u00a0 This is \u2013 he gave it to me, this is no joke.\u00a0 He received an application to apply for a major credit card \u2013 a three-month-old baby.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I've got to tell you, I read an article about a guy who decided to unlist his phone number but didn't want to pay the phone company for an unlisted number, so he just had the number put in the name of his dog, and so then he started getting credit card solicitations for his dog.\u00a0 You know, his dog was invited to have a $5,000 line of credit simply because he had a telephone number.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I'll tell you, we're laughing about this, but we get, in an average month, I would imagine, anywhere between five and 10 credit card applications for our children.\u00a0 They want the child on the hook.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We're going to give parents today a strategy for how they can help their kids be ready for that onslaught when it comes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes, that's correct.\u00a0 Mary Hunt joins us for a second day.\u00a0 Mary, welcome back to FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Oh, thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I wish our listeners could quickly listen to her story that she shared on yesterday's broadcast because she shared a story of how you and your husband were in more than $100,000 in credit card and consumer debt.\u00a0 You had more than 30 credit cards.\u00a0 In fact, so many you didn't know how many you had.\u00a0 It took you more than a dozen years to get out of all that debt, but God has used that because he's turned you into a cheapskate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Isn't that fabulous?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She heads up a ministry, it's actually called \"The Cheapskate Monthly.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> That's the name of my newsletter, that's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Explain to our listeners what's in that newsletter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong>\u00a0 Oh, it's a 12-page newsletter, of course, it comes out every month, and I try to make sure it's filled with motivation, inspiration as in lots of practical tips, exact how-tos, how to get out of debt, and there's a lot of reader communication.\u00a0 Readers write in and tell their stories and their successes, and then that helps others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's like a support group by mail, I guess, for a lot of debtors in this country, and, I'm telling you, we're getting letters every single month of families now who are paying off their last debt \u2013 ecstatic, never dreamed in a million years they'd be able to call themselves debt-free, and we talk about unsecured consumer debt in that term \u2013 debt free.\u00a0 It is the most exciting thing that God could take the most embarrassing, shameful thing in my life, and turn it out to be something that He has been able to use to His glory.\u00a0 That's a miracle, right there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And she is so excited about it, Bob, because once she was blind but now she sees.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She was literally once enslaved to debt, and that's why she's so excited about it.\u00a0 She and her husband, Harold, have survived this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Yes, we have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And have now been married nearly 30 years.\u00a0 They have two sons, Jeremy and Josh, and there are some great stories in here about Jeremy and Josh.\u00a0 I've got to ask you here at the beginning \u2013 you've written a book called \"Debt-Proof Your Kids.\"\u00a0 You tell the story about Uncle Harvey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Isn't this amazing.\u00a0 Well, let me tell you, when my life fell apart in 1982, and I had this spiritual experience.\u00a0 I begged God to forgive me, and I promised I would do whatever it took to pay back this debt.\u00a0 I think the second greatest fear in my life \u2013 the first was that I was going to lose my family; the second fear was that my boys were going to turn out like me, because you know something?\u00a0 Families reproduce themselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Mm-hm.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> And I had this amazing insight \u2013 here they are, six and seven years old, realizing that children hear what we say, and they see what we do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> They were watching you run up that $100,000 worth of consumer debt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Oh, you bet they were.\u00a0 They saw Mommy getting anything she wanted whenever she wanted it and, all of a sudden, those ugly attitudes of entitlement were starting to poke out of my children.\u00a0 More was never enough, they always wanted everything, and when they got it, it was never enough.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, Christmas morning would come, and they'd open all their gifts, and you would see these attitudes of \u2013 no appreciation, no gratitude, you know, like, \"Well, what else can we have,\" you know?\u00a0 Oh, that was just heartbreaking to me, and I saw this in my children, and I thought, \"Oh, Lord, help us, help us to turn this thing around.\u00a0 Is it too late?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, my husband and I in our whole thing, you know, over the next few months as we were talking, I shared this with him.\u00a0 \"What if the boys turn out like us?\"\u00a0 And, all of a sudden, we started to remember and reminisce about his Uncle Harvey.\u00a0 Now, let me tell you quickly about Uncle Harvey.\u00a0 My husband's oldest uncle had four sons.\u00a0 Of course, my husband's cousins now, but they were much older than he, so there were always these stories in the family.\u00a0 They lived a continent away from us.\u00a0 They lived in Eastern Canada, so we did not know them personally, but we had heard these amazing stories about Uncle Harvey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat he would do is on January 1st of every year, he would give to his sons, in cash, all the money he intended to spend on them for the entire year.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> At what age were the sons?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> I don't know, I don't know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That was a part of the story.\u00a0 You weren't allowed to know the facts.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> I didn't know that part.\u00a0 I envisioned they were teenagers.\u00a0 They were very close in age, I know that, so I'm thinking junior high, high school, I don't know.\u00a0 But it was such an amazing thing, because the children didn't have the same personality types.\u00a0 He had one son who was a total spendthrift.\u00a0 By February he didn't have a dime left.\u00a0 He had to go get a job because Uncle Harvey's rules were you can live here, you can eat here, I will be your dad, we are your family, but if you need money, you're on your own, kid.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen they had another son who was an absolute cheapskate, wouldn't spend a dime.\u00a0 He'd rather save than do anything.\u00a0 He wouldn't buy new shoes, wouldn't get his hair cut, a real embarrassment to his mother, but they kept their mouth shut.\u00a0 Now, here is the important thing about the story.\u00a0 All four of these men have turned out to be fantastic, unbelievable, adults \u2013 astute businessmen, very successful in their businesses, beautiful families, not a divorce among them, fabulous children, and we're thinking, \"There's go to be something here.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, and I can only imagine that he taught them how to manage their money.\u00a0 I didn't know all of those details, but we had enough of the story to think there is something there.\u00a0 And so Harold and I sat down, and we came up with a plan where we would use Uncle Harvey as our inspiration.\u00a0 And then we would devise our own Hunt Kid Financial Plan.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd basically it was this \u2013 that we would give our children at the beginning of the month, the money we intended to spend on them during the month, and let them manage the money that we were going to spend on them, anyway.\u00a0 That's the broad description.\u00a0 How we actually did this, though, is the subject of the book, and I tell you, step by step by step, all the stories of what happened \u2013 some of them are hilarious.\u00a0 I was scared to death that we had made a huge mistake, but our plan, and while everybody should make one that fits their own, I think it's very important that children be allowed to make independent financial decisions that are significant while they are still within the safety net of the family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, we've done something similar with our kids, giving them a certain amount of money and saying, clothing and entertainment, all of that, you're on your own for, and I have said to a couple of our kids from time to time, \"Would you prefer that I give you a lump sum once a year?\u00a0 That you get that big deposit, and you've got it there to manage, and that way you'd have some money\" \u2013 this usually comes about when they're looking for some kind of a big purchase right away, you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right, right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I say, \"I'll give you your money for the year, if you'd prefer that.\"\u00a0 Usually, they back off from that real quick.\u00a0 There is something inside of them that knows \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \"I need the discipline.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \"I can't be trusted yet.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That's exactly right.\u00a0 You gave this money to Jeremy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There is a great story about Jeremy having eight cents left.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Yes.\u00a0 Well, we had some definite rules, and our boys had to go through boot camp, and we tried to give big, grownup terms to our program.\u00a0 We didn't put our children on allowance, we put them on salary.\u00a0 Now, this elevated what we were doing to something very, very respectful.\u00a0 There were some hard and fast rules.\u00a0 Number one, they had to give away 10 percent.\u00a0 They had to save 10 percent in a savings account in a bank.\u00a0 It couldn't be in their room, it had to be in a real bank.\u00a0 With what was left, they could do what they wanted.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\"Do what I want, Mom?\"\u00a0 \"You can spend it anything you want, but here is the kicker.\"\u00a0 We had a list of things we would no longer pay for.\u00a0 Now, in the very first year, we started this at the beginning of grade 6.\u00a0 I think that's a good time for boys, 10, 11 years old, and on the list all things were optional.\u00a0 \"Kid optional\" is what we called them for the first year \u2013 things that didn't matter if they bought them or not.\u00a0 We didn't put their haircuts and things that were going to be essential, but things like their video games \u2013 everything a kid has their hand out for \u2013 their collections, their stuff at the store, their ticket to go to the movies with their friends \u2013 that kind of thing we put on the list.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we said, \"It's up to you whether you want to spend it or not,\" but they had to keep the rules.\u00a0 They had to give away 10 percent and save 10 percent.\u00a0 Well, now, that opened up a discussion.\u00a0 \"What do you mean, give it away?\u00a0 What do you mean give it away?\"\u00a0 \"You have to give it away.\"\u00a0 \"Well, where do I give it?\"\u00a0 \"You decide, you have to be the steward.\u00a0 Maybe you have a little friend whose daddy is out of work.\u00a0 They're really needy.\u00a0 Maybe your heart says 'I need to help them.'\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, then, that starts the question \u2013 \"Well, what about the homeless guy with the sign?\"\u00a0 Well, it's up to you.\u00a0 Do you think that's a good use?\u00a0 Do you think you're being a good steward?\"\u00a0 And then the question would always come, \"Well, do you and Daddy do that?\"\u00a0 \"Well, yes, we do.\"\u00a0 \"Well, where do you give?\"\u00a0 \"Well we give it to the church.\u00a0 We give it to God, because in His Word,\" and then that opens up that whole thing.\u00a0 \"But, Jeremy, it's up to you.\u00a0 You have to make the decision.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, the interesting things that both of our boys, of course, followed \u2013 our actions.\u00a0 And they made that decision to give to the church, and they have been givers since they were age 11.\u00a0 They've been marvelous savers.\u00a0 At the beginning of each school year, we had a whole plan, it was all written down \u2013 at the beginning of each school year they got a raise, a significant raise.\u00a0 But here's the deal \u2013 an event every year, their salary increased.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the time they were in high school, we didn't straight out pay for anything.\u00a0 They bought their own yearbooks, they paid for all their senior events, they did all their own gasoline, they did everything, including clothes.\u00a0 We put clothes on there because giving that freedom a little bit at a time, by this time, they were so frugal, they'd get the money, and then they'd go to the thrift store and buy their clothes.\u00a0 It embarrassed me to death, but I thought, \"You know what?\u00a0 They're making their own decisions, and this is the good thing.\u00a0 We are preparing them for life.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd once you start talking about money, oh, my goodness, the opportunities that arise.\u00a0 When those applications would come in the mail, we'd sit down and talk about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Are you talking about a credit card application?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> You bet.\u00a0 We'd say, \"Now, let's just imagine, you know, get out the calculators, guys.\u00a0 Let's say that we bought you this particular credit card they're offering us.\u00a0 Let's say we're going to buy a big screen TV.\u00a0 It's going to cost us $3,000, we're going to put it on the credit, we figure out the monthly payment, we figure how long, and it's going to take 18 years to pay this off?\u00a0 And, all of a sudden, they go, \"Who wants a TV for 18 years?\"\u00a0 They teach themselves when you open this thing up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would talk about newspaper articles.\u00a0 You can't believe what's in the news about credit cards.\u00a0 All you have to do is just start family discussions about it.\u00a0 Our boys both had checking accounts.\u00a0 We taught them that they had to have in their senior year in high school so they could start managing a checking account, very good exercise, and we talked about all of these things, and I've got to tell you, we have had a few years to experience how our program worked.\u00a0 And as opposite as our two boys are, they both turned out very financially confident.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me tell you, Jeremy is now 25 years old.\u00a0 He just purchased his first home as a single young man in Southern California, and the only trouble he had was qualifying for the mortgage was they couldn't understand why he had no debt \u2013 no student loans, absolutely no credit history of debt.\u00a0 Now, he has a credit card so he has established credit, but absolutely no history of debt.\u00a0 They called him four or five times, something doesn't add up here, you know, the computers can't handle this.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> But they are not used to seeing a person enter adulthood without debt, and it was the most exciting thing in our lives.\u00a0 Now, he doesn't make a tremendous amount of money.\u00a0 He has a good job, he has a good education, but the fact that he has no debt increases his spending ability, his living ability \u2013 it is just phenomenal to me how the absence of debt can improve your life so dramatically.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Let me ask you a question about your salary.\u00a0 Let's say your child finds a pair of tennis shows \u2013 ha, that would be a relevant subject \u2013 a boy who wants a pair of tennis shoes that probably cost $75 to $100 or more.\u00a0 Or maybe, you know, it's not that big, maybe it's a CD, and he's at the end of the month and doesn't quite have enough.\u00a0 Did you ever allow your children to borrow money from you to be able to purchase?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Never.\u00a0 I can say that without qualification \u2013 never.\u00a0 Because in the book \u2013 we had a book with all the rules.\u00a0 There would be no loans, there would be no advances.\u00a0 We taught our children that borrowing was not an option.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay, what if you're at the store, though, because this has happened to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I've got the money at home.\u00a0 Lend me the money here, I'll pay you back when we get home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> No, absolutely not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You wouldn't do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> No, absolutely not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You really are a cheapskate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Because why do that?\u00a0 You're breaking the rules.\u00a0 You're teaching your children that when they get in a pinch or they have a great need or desire that it's okay to spend money they don't have.\u00a0 No, we'll go home and get your money, and we'll come back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The benefits \u2013 there is an obvious benefit here, and parents know this \u2013 you didn't have to deal with kids coming to you and saying, \"Can I have money for this?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Never.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You never had that battle between whether you're going to give them money for this or not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> That's right, and never once did our boys say, \"Well, what did you do with the 20 bucks I gave you last night?\"\u00a0 And all of the friction that happens between parents and teenagers \u2013 it was not there.\u00a0 The adolescent years were the most beautiful, wonderful time of our lives.\u00a0 I really, truly believe that a lot of the friction between adolescents and their parents stems from this thing of, \"Mom, you're so cheap,\" and back to the thing about clothes.\u00a0 Before our kids went on salary, they were designer freaks.\u00a0 Well, what we did, along with our plan, was we had a list of what we would pay.\u00a0 It was our basics of what we \u2013 25 bucks was what we would pay for tennis shoes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if they wanted to by the $95 pair, fabulous \u2013 we'll take you there to try them on.\u00a0 Guess what?\u00a0 You get to pay the difference.\u00a0 I've got to tell you, it nipped that in the bud real fast.\u00a0 It's amazing what children can learn, how they will mature, and children want to be trusted.\u00a0 I think that is so important \u2013 they want to feel freedom, and they want to feel trust.\u00a0 This is a way that we could do both.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But weren't there times, Mary, when you had to bite your tongue and go, \"Ohhh, look at what you're wearing, ooooh.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There is one right here in the book, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yeah?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It's a story of Jeremy and a purchase that he made for $39.92.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> He had $40 to his name.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That's right, and all he had left was 8 cents to last him a month.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> That's right.\u00a0 It was the longest month of my life.\u00a0 I tell you, as a mother, I wanted more than anything to say \"We've made a huge mistake, my darling, I will give you anything you want just like we've always done,\" and biting my tongue.\u00a0 I still have the scars to prove it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Mm-hm.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Yes!\u00a0 That is so difficult to allow your children to make errors, to make poor judgment calls, but the best learning experiences \u2013 and it doesn't matter now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What did he buy for $39.92?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> A Star Wars toy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And he bought it at the first of the month?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> The very first day of his salary, that's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And he had 8 cents to last him the rest of the month.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> The entire month.\u00a0 He had to miss a birthday party, he missed video games.\u00a0 It was the most heartbreaking month of my life.\u00a0 He's only 11 years old \u2013 to see my child suffer.\u00a0 Never once did he ask for any more money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There was a little too much cruelty in your laugh was there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, I'm listening to a mother, you know?\u00a0 And you know what she's doing?\u00a0 I'm glad she's articulating this, because it is the mother, many times \u2013 or it can be the dad, I mean, we can be a softie, who bails them out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Oh, yeah, and we want to do that, and believe me, the credit card companies are counting on that.\u00a0 They know that parents bail their kids out.\u00a0 That's why they're giving them the credit cards without jobs, without co-signers, because they know parents will bail them out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, let me tell you, the second month with Jeremy \u2013 completely the opposite.\u00a0 The kid became the tightest cheapskate you've ever seen in your life.\u00a0 He missed a birthday party rather than buying a gift, and I'm going, \"Oh, this cannot be.\u00a0 I cannot raise this child this way.\u00a0 We've really made a mistake.\"\u00a0 But I've got to tell you, after a few months, the pendulum started to swing right in the middle, nice and easy.\u00a0 The kid started to manage his own life using money as the tool, and it was absolutely incredible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Dennis, at age 17, Amy got a letter in the mail from the bank from her checking account.\u00a0 There were insufficient funds in the account for the check that she had written.\u00a0 She came to me and \u2013 \"Dad, I don't know how this happened.\"\u00a0 I said, \"Have you ever taken money out of the ATM and not written it down?\"\u00a0 \"Maybe.\u00a0 I thought I had written them all down.\"\u00a0 Well, we went up and we asked for a printout, and we matched it up with what she had, and we found a couple of ATM withdrawals that hadn't made her deposit, and she had to pay, I forget what it was, $22 or something, for a bounced check?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yeah, they're expensive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was, like, a $12 check that she had to pay the $22 bounced check fee for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What a lesson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That's a small price to pay keeping them out of where you wound up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> That's right.\u00a0 And you know something about our boys \u2013 both of them saved far more than they were required to.\u00a0 In fact, they saved so much that each of them, when they turned 16, had enough money to buy a car \u2013 all cash.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, you can see, they lived some frugal months, but the payoff was incredible, and they taught themselves this kind of thing.\u00a0 I just cannot stress enough how important it is to allow your children to make some decisions on their own.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, those listeners who listened to yesterday's broadcast and hear where you came from yesterday, I think, what a different story.\u00a0 Talk about redemption, talk about deliverance from Egypt \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2026 for Mary and Harold, as a couple.\u00a0 I mean, you were delivered. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne last question I've got to ask you quickly \u2013 salary.\u00a0 You always mention the word \"salary.\"\u00a0 Is that tied to responsibilities that they have?\u00a0 You're paying them to do certain duties in the family?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> You know, that question comes up, and I'm sure there are many schools of thought, but for our plan it was not tied to that at all.\u00a0 This is how \u2013 we wanted to emulate real life.\u00a0 We looked at our family as a community, each one of us were a citizen of the community.\u00a0 As such, we had responsibilities within that community, within that home.\u00a0 Our boys had responsibilities, they had chores, they had salary as well.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut let me ask you this \u2013 if you're on the way to work, and you happen to be a little late, you get a speeding ticket.\u00a0 Your paycheck next Friday doesn't have a deduction from it for that speeding ticket.\u00a0 No, you get your paycheck, then you have to go on your own and pay for that citation.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we tried to do that.\u00a0 We would give our boys citations if they messed up.\u00a0 If something wasn't done, they got fined.\u00a0 They still got their salary, it was not docked, but they might have to pay a $10 fee.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, really, like for failing to carry out the garbage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mary:<\/strong> Absolutely, absolutely.\u00a0 And, let me tell you, you stop speeding when you get to many speeding tickets, and that's exactly what happened.\u00a0 We did not dock their pay.\u00a0 We saw them as \u2013 and we called them \"certified,\" \"official\" family money managers.\u00a0 We were turning over to them a portion of our family's income to manage.\u00a0 Each person in the family had our own responsibility as part of the community, and that was how we looked at that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know that there are some families who don't believe in \u2013 you know, they would rather tie to chores.\u00a0 I don't think there's a problem with that as long as you've got a plan that's working.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, and what parent doesn't need a plan around finances today?\u00a0 Especially as you move into the teenage years, because if you don't have proactive plan, I promise you, your teenager has one for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And it's not a pleasant plan, either.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And, you know, I think back to how we got a plan when we first came through this with our children.\u00a0 We leaned into those who had been there before, and those who had learned along the way and had come up with wise strategies, and I think what Mary has put in her book, \"Debt-Proof Your Kids\" is exactly that kind of a wise strategy for parents, so that you can put a plan together and begin to help your children face what is going to be one of their big life-skill issues \u2013 how they handle money and credit cards and debt, the whole thing \u2013 getting them checking accounts and teaching them how to set money aside for different things.\u00a0 It's all a part of what we have to pass on to our children, and Mary's book, \"Debt-Proof Your Kids\" helps do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you'd like a copy, you can go to our website, FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 On the right side of the home page, you'll see a box that says \"Today's Broadcast,\" and if you click where it says \"Learn More,\" that will take you to an area of the site where you can find out how you can get a copy of Mary Hunt's book, \"Debt-Proof Your Kids,\" and, by the way, there is also a book called \"Debt-Proof Your Marriage,\" that is available on our website as well.\u00a0 It's from Mary Hunt, and if you'd like to get a copy of both books, let us know, and we'll make arrangements to have those sent out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf it's easier to call, 1-800-FLTODAY to request these resources, you can do that.\u00a0 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.\u00a0 When you get in touch with us, someone will let you know how you can get these resources, and we'll make arrangements to send them out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is one other resource I want to mention that we'd love to send out to you this month \u2013 we had an opportunity to sit down not long ago and talk with Nancy Leigh DeMoss about forgiveness.\u00a0 It's a big issue in a lot of families today, and Nancy has written a book called \"Choosing Forgiveness.\"\u00a0 We would love to send you this month a CD that features our conversation with Nancy on this subject, and we're making it available when you make a donation of any amount to the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are listener-supported, so those donations are critical for this radio program to continue on this station and on other stations all across the country.\u00a0 We also love hearing from you and, again, this month, when you make a donation of any amount, feel free to request the CD that features our conversation with Nancy Leigh DeMoss on forgiveness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you're donating online, there is a keycode box on the donation form.\u00a0 Just type the word \"forgive\" into that box, and we'll know to send you a copy of the CD, or call 1-800-FLTODAY to make a donation over the phone and mention that you'd like the CD on forgiveness or the CD with Nancy Leigh DeMoss.\u00a0 Again, we are happy to send it to you as our way of saying thank you for supporting the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 We appreciate hearing from you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 We hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend, and I hope you can join us back on Monday when we're going to begin a weeklong look at a subject that a lot of couples find themselves scratching their heads about \u2013 the subject of family planning.\u00a0 What's appropriate, what's not appropriate, what do we do with contraception?\u00a0 Should that be a part of our marriage?\u00a0 We'll talk about that beginning on Monday.\u00a0 I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you Monday for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas \u2013 help for today; hope for tomorrow.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. 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