{"id":301613,"date":"2008-06-27T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2008-06-27T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/unearthing-moral-relativism\/"},"modified":"2008-06-27T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2008-06-27T15:00:00","slug":"unearthing-moral-relativism","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/unearthing-moral-relativism\/","title":{"rendered":"Unearthing Moral Relativism"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Research shows that 70% of college students don\u2019t believe in moral absolutes.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-06-27.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"12.82M","filesize_raw":"13446680","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2821],"tags":[4722,4818,4159],"podcast_series":[7591],"cwp_profile":[9130,3245],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301613","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-reaching-out","tag-christianity","tag-evangelism","tag-gospel","podcast_series-the-god-conversation","cwp_profile-j-p-moreland","cwp_profile-tim-muehlhoff","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301613\/unearthing-moral-relativism","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301613\/unearthing-moral-relativism","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"m12oqv55oI\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/unearthing-moral-relativism\/\">Unearthing Moral Relativism<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/unearthing-moral-relativism\/embed\/#?secret=m12oqv55oI\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Unearthing Moral Relativism&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"m12oqv55oI\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var 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absolutes.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-06-27.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Are there some things that are always right for all time for all people in all places, and other things that are always wrong for all people at all times in all places?\u00a0 A lot of non-Christians would say, \"No, everything is relative.\"\u00a0 Even some Christians would agree.\u00a0 Dr. Tim Muehlhoff says we need to think about that a little deeper.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> There's a horrible website by the Ku Klux Klan.\u00a0 It's called \"Ku Klux Klan for Kids,\" and it teaches young kids to be racist.\u00a0 Well, if you present that to most people in the United States, and you would say to them, \"Is that wrong for everybody?\"\u00a0 \"Yeah.\"\u00a0 Most people would look at that and say, \"That is wrong.\"\u00a0 But the million-dollar question is, why can you say that's wrong for everybody?\u00a0 What is the foundation that allows you to say the things on your list are wrong for everybody?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, June 27th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 There are hard questions people ask about the Christian faith.\u00a0 There are also reasonable and rational answers to many of those questions.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.\u00a0 You know, in our culture today, when you want to talk about your faith, you're probably okay talking about it unless it's Christianity.\u00a0 You know what I mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It's, like, I can talk about my faith, whatever it is, as long as it's not faith in Jesus.\u00a0 That's the one that seems like it's out of bounds.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And do you know why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No, why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Because Jesus claimed to be the way, the truth, and the life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The exclusivity of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He said, \"No one comes to the Father but through me.\"\u00a0 And so He is making an absolute claim that it's either right or wrong.\u00a0 There is nothing in between.\u00a0 He didn't say \"a way,\" \"a life.\"\u00a0 He said, \"I am the way, the truth, and the life.\"\u00a0 And it really flies in the face of this culture, which doesn't believe in any kind of absolutes.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a couple of professors here in the studio.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Two doctors with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Two doctors.\u00a0 Both teach at Biola University.\u00a0 One is an associate professor of communication, that's Tim Muehlhoff.\u00a0 Tim, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And the other is J.P. Moreland, who is the distinguished professor of philosophy at Talbot School of Theology.\u00a0 I have to ask you, J.P., what's a \"distinguished\" professor as compared to just a professor?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> Well, I'm not sure, but at least it's not an extinguished professor.\u00a0 That's the good news.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Together they have written a book called \"The God Conversation,\" which really equips us to use stories and illustrations to explain our faith to our neighbor, and, J.P., you've done a lot of writing in this area about this culture not having moral absolutes.\u00a0 It almost seems like there is a counter-culture to Christianity today.\u00a0 Am I wrong?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> Oh, no, you're not wrong, Dennis, you are so painfully right.\u00a0 We live in a logjam right now in our culture.\u00a0 What I mean by that is the culture, by and large, accepts the idea that we should be tolerant and not judge any lifestyle or any position to be wrong; that whatever you believe sincerely and hold for yourself is just fine, and whatever another person believes sincerely and holds is fine for him.\u00a0 And we need to be tolerant and not judgmental of anybody and say anybody is wrong anymore.\u00a0 And this kind of relativism is presenting us a situation that's very dangerous to raise children in, and I'm very, very concerned for families, for the kids that are going to be in junior high and in high school and even going on to college.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe statistics are, and I believe this comes from the campus ministry known as The Navigators.\u00a0 I might have the number wrong, but I think it's something like in the 70 percentile of university students don't believe that there are moral absolutes, meaning they don't believe that there are some things that are actually right or actually wrong; that any lifestyle and any person's belief is just fine if they believe it sincerely, and that's a very, very dangerous position to be in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> J.P., let me ask you about what has been a moral shift in my lifetime.\u00a0 You go back to the early '60s, and there was still some social taboo around the idea of sex outside of marriage.\u00a0 It was considered wrong.\u00a0 It may have happened, but we didn't endorse it.\u00a0 We thought of it as wrong behavior.\u00a0 Today, it's practiced and accepted, and there is no shame associated with having sex outside of marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhy is that and how do we have a conversation around that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> I'm glad you asked that, Bob.\u00a0 It's a complicated issue but, very simply, the culture has reached a point where we believe now that if you can't prove something scientifically in a laboratory where it can measured and tested in the lab, you can't know it's true.\u00a0 And since moral claims, like it's wrong for teenagers to have sex if they're not married, is not something that you can prove scientifically.\u00a0 And so the assumption is, that means that nobody can really know who is right or wrong about that.\u00a0 And so what we need to do is to be tolerant of all positions on this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo what's happened is with the rise of science as our only authority, and with the idea that morality is not a scientific matter, truth has been replaced with the satisfaction of desire.\u00a0 And so the only absolute today is that a person should be able to satisfy their immediate gratification needs any way they want to and without being judged by other people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> My pursuit of happiness is sacrosanct.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> Well, and for you to come along and get in the way of, say, two junior high kids who are wanting to have sex \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Pursue their own happiness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> Yeah, who are you to judge?\u00a0 I mean, so it's this rampant notion of tolerance, and I think what we're seeing is that this permissiveness about sex before marriage is really just an outworking of the loss of moral absolutes, and this embracing of relativism.\u00a0 And what that tells me is that we've got to find ways to get on the table all over again the idea that there really is a right and wrong, and that's what we've tried to do in \"The God Conversation.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, Tim, you have a great illustration of this, if you could share it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> What we want to do is to find a way with your friends, neighbors, co-workers, to show them that they already believe in moral absolutes.\u00a0 They already believe that there are some things that are just flat-out wrong, and is wrong for everybody.\u00a0 What we have to do is to get them to actually articulate that kind of list.\u00a0 We call it the \"not to be tolerated\" list.\u00a0 All of us have them.\u00a0 We could talk about things like torturing babies, and things like that.\u00a0 People believe that's wrong for everybody.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut here are a couple we mention in the book.\u00a0 There is a horrible website by the Ku Klux Klan.\u00a0 It's called \"Ku Klux Klan for Kids,\" and it teaches young kids to be racist.\u00a0 It does it through interactive cartoons, games.\u00a0 Well, if you present that to most people in the United States, they would look at that and say, \"That's just sick.\"\u00a0 And you would say to them, \"Is that wrong for everybody?\"\u00a0 \"Yeah, it's wrong.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is another story about a mother in South Carolina who has two children, but her boyfriend doesn't want to have kids, so she takes her two kids, straps them in the back seat of the car and drives them into a lake because she wants to date this guy.\u00a0 Well, most people would look at that and say, \"That is wrong.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we would agree with that, as Christians.\u00a0 We would say a racist website is wrong, but the million-dollar question is, why can you say that's wrong for everybody?\u00a0 What is the foundation that allows you to say the things on your list are wrong for everybody?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What's your standard?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> What's your standard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> And so the important thing, from a communication standpoint, is kind of a two-step conversation with people where you begin by trying to get on the table that everybody does know that there are absolutes, and the second question is, if there are such things, where do they come from?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me illustrate this idea of a do-not-tolerate list that I think Tim has done such a good job of presenting.\u00a0 Years ago, I was talking to a fellow that I had just met, and it turned out that he was a relativist \u2013 everything is right if you believe it sincerely, there is no right and wrong.\u00a0 And I found out he loved the environment.\u00a0 He just loved the environment and was very concerned about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I told him, I said, \"You know, I don't know what you're going to think of this, but I've got four friends, and once a month we each kick $50 into a kitty, and the kitty's got $250 in it.\u00a0 We go to a store and buy a 100-gallon vat of sulphuric acid, and we drive out to Lake Paris out here in Southern California, and we go out, and we dump the acid in the lake, and we've taken bets on how many fish are going to belly up to the surface, and whoever gets closest to the number of fish we kill gets the whole $250 pot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You're kind of mischievous, you know that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> I'm a wild and crazy guy.\u00a0 Well, after I shared this, you could see the blood vessels on this guy's neck beginning to swell, and I said, \"You know, I could be wrong about this, but from looking at your body language, I get the sneaking impression that you think that what my friends and I are doing is wrong.\"\u00a0 It was a conversation that was actually fun, I didn't do it in a hostile way; he got the point.\u00a0 But he had a do-not-tolerate list that was an absolute for everybody, and that is caring for the environment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So after you've made the point that they do have a standard of morality, how, then, do you bridge the gap from the person who is coming out of this culture of everything is right in your own eyes, to now a person being accountable to God for their lives and whether or not they are going to put their faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior for the forgiveness of their sins.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Great question.\u00a0 Once the list is created and, again, I would look at that person's list, where you can agree with that person's not-to-be-tolerate list, I would.\u00a0 I agree, torturing babies is wrong.\u00a0 I don't care who does it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Sulphuric acid in the lake is wrong, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yeah, okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Absolutely.\u00a0 So then the question becomes what allows you to say that?\u00a0 Now, there are only three options, there really are.\u00a0 One, your community says it's wrong.\u00a0 When we moved into our neighborhood in Southern California, we had to sign a neighborhood covenant, which basically said you can't paint your house purple.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Okay? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Can't put an RV in your driveway, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> No, actually, people do that all the time, all the time.\u00a0 But you sign this covenant, and it's not that these rules are handed down from God.\u00a0 These rules we came up with as a neighborhood.\u00a0 Okay?\u00a0 We don't like purple, we don't like neon colors.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can also say that about your not-to-be-tolerated list.\u00a0 You can say, \"Hey, in our community we believe torturing babies is wrong.\u00a0 We believe a racist website is wrong,\" okay?\u00a0 But here's the problem, what do you do with another community?\u00a0 The Ku Klux Klan are a community, and they say, \"No, racism is actually right, and I'm just being a good parent.\u00a0 I'm teaching my kids my values, and my value is that white people are superior to everybody else.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo what do you do when two communities just disagree with each other?\u00a0 In the book we used the Holocaust, which is a great example because exterminating the Jews was not against any German law; Hitler was very careful to enact laws that supported what he was doing.\u00a0 So how can one country say to another country, \"You are wrong?\"\u00a0 The answer to that is \"My army is bigger than your army.\"\u00a0 That's how you get to dictate what another country does.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo if a community determines what's right and wrong, then you can't just another community.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And might makes right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Might makes right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Second, individuals determine what's right and wrong.\u00a0 I just determine my own set of values, so this is wrong for you to go into a lake and kill all these fish but, for me, it might be okay and even enjoyable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, as Christians, we just reject that.\u00a0 We say that what is right and wrong is what a good, holy, and just God determines what is right and wrong \u2013 his good character determines that it's wrong to kill anybody made in the image of God.\u00a0 It's wrong to be racist because everyone has God's image and is to be respected. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow the million-dollar question becomes, \"Okay, there is a god that determines right and wrong.\u00a0 How do I get to know that god?\u00a0 Which god are you even talking about?\u00a0 The god of Islam, the god of Hinduism.\u00a0 We want to say that Christianity, that Jesus is God, and Christianity is the only religion that offers one huge test to see if Christianity is true, and we already talked about that, that's the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> And, Bob, one of the things we do in the book is illustrate this whole point about God being the author of the law through the Nuremberg Trials.\u00a0 Those were the trials that tried the Nazi war criminals and, as Tim pointed out, they defend themselves for what they were doing to the Jews on the basis of the fact that they weren't violating any of their own standards in Germany.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd one of the judges in the Nuremberg Trial said, \"Yes, but there has to be a law above the law.\"\u00a0 And he meant by that, there must be a law that transcends culture and human law, and you're wrong on the basis of that ultimate law, even if you weren't wrong on the basis of German law.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen the question then becomes, where does that law above the law come from?\u00a0 And the answer is a law-giver.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me ask both of you \u2013 does this work?\u00a0 I mean, this whole idea of sitting down with somebody who doesn't embrace moral absolutes, and going through the no-tolerance list and getting them to see, okay, there are some things that I am intolerant of, like torturing babies or the racist website.\u00a0 We're still living in a culture that's screaming at us that we need to be tolerant of anything and everything.\u00a0 You're creating some kind of conflict, but can you really outshout the culture on this one?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Well, the goal isn't, I think, to outshout the culture.\u00a0 The goal is with that one person you get into a conversation with at Starbucks' or Dennis on the airplane, I mean, all we can do is be a faithful witness to the people that we really cross paths with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJ.P. has access to the scholars of the world, and he's trying to influence them, but for most of us, we're talking about the people at Starbuck's, we're talking about other parents in Little League, and I'm amazed how many conversations have come up during Little League, when you watch this game that never ends, ever \u2013 you can get into a ton of conversations, and I have never had a person who has not been able to create a not-to-be-tolerated list.\u00a0 Every person I have ever talked to has said \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> They have their limits.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Yeah, they do.\u00a0 And I like to play devil's advocate.\u00a0 I like to say to them, \"Well, how can you say that racist website is wrong?\"\u00a0 That's a pretty powerful place to be, and then, again, the name of the book really should be the \"The God Conversations.\"\u00a0 Because we're not saying in one huge conversation you're going to do this.\u00a0 This is probably conversations that happen over the course of a Little League season or \u2013 you know what I mean?\u00a0 Continual conversations where you're just placing a nugget, giving an illustration, and praying that the Holy Spirit would take everything you just said and really hook it into that person's memory and that the Spirit will convict them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yeah, Tim, and as you have those conversations, the easiest thing to do when you begin to talk about issues of personal faith with someone who is coming at it from a different angle than you are, is to get off on the island where you disagree.\u00a0 And I heard you say \"Leave those islands alone. Find the island you can get on where you have some beliefs in common, something to agree on, and find a way from that island to build a bridge back to the truth of who Christ is.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Galatians, chapter 6 says even if you find somebody who is in a trespass, they're wrong.\u00a0 It's not a question it's wrong; it's a trespass.\u00a0 Paul says, \"I want you to do it with gentleness.\"\u00a0 And I think the tone of our communication is just as important as what you say. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo if we come across accusatory and attacking another person, guess what?\u00a0 You're going to get attacked back.\u00a0 And I would add one last thing.\u00a0 A favorite writer of mine said this \u2013 \"What has happened to our sense of humor?\u00a0 As Christians are we so deathly serious about everything that we can no longer sit back and just kind of laugh?\"\u00a0 So during a conversation, a person makes a good point, and you just kind of laugh, and you go, \"Okay, well, you know what?\u00a0 That's a pretty good point.\u00a0 Uh, yeah, is it time to go already?\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, it's like \u2013 so we've become so serious \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Where everything has just got to be right.\u00a0 You know, it's either right or wrong, and we've got to prove everything, and I've got to be right, and, you know, some of us are wired that way.\u00a0 You know what I mean?\u00a0 And I've had to learn to keep my mouth shut.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Boy, that's a \u2013 yeah, you bet, you bet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And just rather than club them with the truth, kill them with kindness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yeah, the advice of a senior pastor to a younger pastor, Paul's advice to Timothy in 2 Timothy was, \"The Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone; able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness.\u00a0 God may perhaps grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and they may escape from the snare\" \u2013 so it goes on.\u00a0 But your attitude must be kind, patient, not quarrelsome, and correcting with gentleness.\u00a0 That's a great passage for us to bear in mind as we have these conversations.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> And from a communications standpoint, we actually have a term for that.\u00a0 It's called the principle of reciprocity.\u00a0 In other words, generally speaking, how you treat a person is how you'll be treated.\u00a0 There is a very famous study in communication studies.\u00a0 A professor of communication sent out 500 Christmas cards to complete strangers just to see how many he would get back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo in these Christmas cards, he would just say, \"Hey, thinking of you this season, love, the Muehlhoffs.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> To a total stranger.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> A total stranger.\u00a0 Well, the person would receive and say, \"Oh, the Muehlhoffs, well, thinking of you, too.\u00a0 Have a great\" \u2013 of 500 cards that he sent out, he received over 70 percent of them back, the principle being if you are kind to a person and gentle with a person, generally speaking, they'll be kind and gentle back to you.\u00a0 Raise your voice to a person or be sarcastic, you will get that.\u00a0 And Paul said you reap what you sow, you really do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yeah.\u00a0 I was seated next to this young man on an airplane a couple of weeks ago, and he was a Ph.D. student at a well-known Midwestern university, was one of eight students that had been selected out of 300 for this program, and we struck up a little conversation about what he was studying and where he was taking that, and I just asked him a question.\u00a0 I said, \"In all your studies, undoubtedly you're reflecting upon your own journey of faith and about God and the existence of how He's made things to work.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause he was saying how people are supposed to work interpersonally, and he goes, \"Boy, I sure have.\u00a0 I am really aware of it.\"\u00a0 And I said, \"How satisfied are you with your journey.\"\u00a0 He said, \"You know, it's interesting you mention that.\u00a0 Just in the past few months, I've been talking to my girlfriend about how we need to come back to our faith and how, as we look to the future of building our relationship together and getting married, how we need to have a mutual faith together.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, hey, he mentioned God and marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And he's sitting next to Dennis Rainey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t(laughter) \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness.\u00a0 And I didn't have your book, I didn't have your book, but I had a delightful conversation with this young man.\u00a0 Before it was over, I was able to recommend a church near him, and began to connect him in his journey to be able to pursue God, and I think that's the goal.\u00a0 You know, it's not to win the argument.\u00a0 I've shared my faith now who knows how many times with people in either one-to-one or one-to-many, and I have no interest anymore of winning the argument because you know what?\u00a0 You can win the argument, and you lose the relationship, and I think you lose all ability to talk about the redemptive work of Christ.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I just want to thank both of you guys for your work.\u00a0 Tim, you and Noreen, for speaking at the Weekend to Remember.\u00a0 You guys are great comrades as we seek to build marriages and families across the nation.\u00a0 And J.P., you and Hope go all the way back to the late '60s when Barbara and were just friends, and did you start dating Hope back then?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> I sure did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yeah, you snagged her quicker than I got Barbara.\u00a0 You're a great friend, too, and a great mind for the Christian faith.\u00a0 Thank you for your ministry as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> You're welcome, thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And any of our listeners who are interested in tapping into both of these minds can do that by getting a copy of the book that they've written called \"The God Conversation,\" and, of course, we have copies of it in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 If you go to our website, FamilyLife.com, on the right-hand side of the screen you will see a button that says \"Today's Broadcast,\" \"Learn More,\" click that button, it will take you to an area of the site where there is more information not only about the book that J.P. Moreland and Tim Muehlhoff have written but also information about C.S. Lewis's classic book, \"Mere Christianity,\" about Jerry Bridges' new book, \"The Gospel for Real Life.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, the point is you need to understand what it is you believe and how to defend what you believe and then how to share what you believe with others, and we want to equip you to do that, and there are resources on our site designed to do just that.\u00a0 Again, our website is FamilyLife.com, and if you want to get to where the resources are, click on the right side of the screen where it says \"Today's Broadcast,\" or simply call us at 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and we'll get the resources you need sent out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me wrap up the week by saying how much we appreciate those of you who listen to FamilyLife Today who get in touch with us, send us letter or e-mails, and let us know that you're listening and how the program is having an impact in your life, in your marriage, in your family.\u00a0 It's always a thrill for us to get those e-mails and those letters, and we appreciate hearing from you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I also want to say thanks to those of you who help support the ministry of FamilyLife Today by making a donation.\u00a0 We're listener-supported, and those donations are what keep us on the air here in this city and in other cities all across the country, and we appreciate your financial partnership with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis week, if you make a donation of any amount, we have a book we'd like to send you as a thank you gift.\u00a0 Upon request, we'll send you a copy of Dr. Robert Lewis's new book called \"The New Eve.\"\u00a0 We talked with Dr. Lewis about this book on our program recently, and many of you contacted us to ask for a copy.\u00a0 This week it's available when you make a donation of any amount to support the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 So go to our website at FamilyLife.com, and if you're making your donation online, remember to type the word \"Eve\" into the keycode box as you fill out the donation form.\u00a0 That way we'll know to send a copy of Robert's book to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOr call 1-800-FLTODAY to make a donation of any amount over the phone and just ask for a copy of Robert Lewis's book, \"The New Eve.\"\u00a0 It's our thank you gift to you when you help support the ministry of FamilyLife Today, and we do appreciate your financial partnership.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, I hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 I hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend, and I hope you can be back with us on Monday when we're going to talk with Charlie Boyd about how we shared the message of the Gospel, the same thing we've been talking about today \u2013 how we share that with our children in a way that they can understand it.\u00a0 That's coming up Monday, and I hope you can be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Have a great weekend, we'll see you Monday for another edition of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas \u2013 help for today; hope for tomorrow.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t_______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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