{"id":301612,"date":"2008-06-26T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2008-06-26T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/are-all-religions-the-same\/"},"modified":"2008-06-26T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2008-06-26T15:00:00","slug":"are-all-religions-the-same","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/are-all-religions-the-same\/","title":{"rendered":"Are All Religions the Same?"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>On the broadcast today, Dennis Rainey talks with Tim Muehlhoff and J.P. Moreland, both professors at Biola University, about how to answer questions non-believers ask about God.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-06-26.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"10.47M","filesize_raw":"10980840","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2821],"tags":[4722,4818,4159],"podcast_series":[7591],"cwp_profile":[9130,3245],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301612","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-reaching-out","tag-christianity","tag-evangelism","tag-gospel","podcast_series-the-god-conversation","cwp_profile-j-p-moreland","cwp_profile-tim-muehlhoff","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301612\/are-all-religions-the-same","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301612\/are-all-religions-the-same","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"kTOT08A9IE\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/are-all-religions-the-same\/\">Are All Religions the Same?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/are-all-religions-the-same\/embed\/#?secret=kTOT08A9IE\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Are All Religions the Same?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"kTOT08A9IE\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"On the broadcast today, Dennis Rainey talks with Tim Muehlhoff and J.P. Moreland, both professors at Biola University, about how to answer questions non-believers ask about God.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-06-26.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> I was speaking at a fraternity years ago at the University of Massachusetts, and a gentleman raised this very problem \u2013 \"All religions are the same, we shouldn't judge other people's as wrong,\" and I said to him, \"Tell me what my mother looks like?\"\u00a0 I asked three guys, \"What does my mother look like?\"\u00a0 They all gave different answers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I responded by saying, \"Now, you can't all be right.\u00a0 She can't weight 100 pounds, 120 pounds, 140 pounds all at the same time.\"\u00a0 And, similarly, all the different religions can't be true because they contradict one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, June 26th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 There are some tough questions that can get thrown our way when we're having a conversation with others about God.\u00a0 But there are answers for those questions.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.\u00a0 Where did God come from?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[crickets chirping]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Where did that question come from?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We've been starting radio, now, Bob, coming up on 16 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yeah?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Thank you for asking that question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I'm just sitting here trying to say \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He has no beginning, Bob, He is eternal.\u00a0 You know that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I know that, but I'm just trying to think of the questions that get introduced into conversation when you're having conversations about God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Let's ask our guests.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That's a good idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Our guests are professors and a well-known Christian university, and if anybody knows where He came from, J.P. Moreland or Tim Muehlhoff do.\u00a0 Okay, Tim?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Uh, J.P.?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>[<\/strong>laughter<strong>]<\/strong> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>[<\/strong>crosstalk<strong>]<\/strong> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong>\u00a0 Here is the simple answer \u2013 \"Johnny, God didn't come from anywhere because He's always been here.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It's Bobby not Johnny.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> Yes, I know that.\u00a0 I was talking to little Johnny, but little Bobby would work, too.\u00a0 But there is another way to answer this, actually, that may be interesting.\u00a0 Suppose that I went to you and said, \"Could I borrow a typewriter?\"\u00a0 And you said, \"Absolutely.\u00a0 I don't own one, but let me borrow one, and I'll give it to you.\"\u00a0 So you go to someone and say, \"I'd like to loan a typewriter to my friend.\u00a0 Could I borrow one from you?\"\u00a0 And the person says, \"Absolutely.\u00a0 Unfortunately, I don't own a typewriter.\u00a0 Let me go get one.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, if you keep doing that, then no one is going to get a typewriter, because everyone is a borrowing lender that has to get a typewriter first.\u00a0 Eventually, you're going to have to stop with somebody who just has a typewriter who doesn't have to borrow it first.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, the same thing is true for existing.\u00a0 If I have to be given existence by something before I can give existence to my children, whatever gave existence to me \u2013 if it had to get existence from something else, you eventually have to stop with something that just has a typewriter \u2013 that just exists and doesn't come from anywhere.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, that is a great illustration, and I think we ought to explain to our listeners why I started the program by asking where God came from.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, we're talking about how to have a conversation about matters of faith with a friend, a neighbor, maybe another young person at school, collegian talking to another college student, sharing their faith in Jesus Christ in a non-offensive way but yet in a bold way, in an aggressive way, and how to get into the conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And I asked the question I did because oftentimes, when you're having a conversation with a skeptic, or with somebody who is not particularly religious, there are a handful of questions, Tim, that re-emerge every time, and some Christians feel like, \"Well, if I don't have a typewriter answer for that question, then I'm going to be shut out, the conversation is over, and I effectively have lost the debate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> That's right.\u00a0 And you know what's funny, Bob, is we have this conversation in our mind before we ever have it with a real person.\u00a0 In our mind, we think, \"Oh, what if they say this?\u00a0 Oh, what if they ask this question?\u00a0 I have no idea.\"\u00a0 So I'm not going to have the conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You talk yourself out of the conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Completely.\u00a0 You never even have it, and I love what you said to a person who asked you a question \u2013 you just said, \"I don't know, I really don't know the answer to that,\" and it's because some of our listeners are saying, \"I have no idea what I would say if somebody asked where did God come from, and I think I understand J.P.'s illustration, but not enough to share it,\" so then I'm just not going to have the conversation for fear of that one question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Today, when we teach communication, authenticity, honestly, if you have every answer to every question, it actually kind of works against you, because the person starts to think, \"You can't know every single answer to every question.\"\u00a0 Then they try to stump you with bogus questions, but when you look at a person and just say to them, \"Listen, honestly, I just \u2013 I don't know.\"\u00a0 And I think we could say to a person, \"Let me get back to you.\u00a0 If you'd like to continue this conversation, I would love to, and I need to do a little bit of homework.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Both of you gentlemen are professors.\u00a0 J.P., you teach at Talbot Seminary.\u00a0 Tim, you teach at Biola University, and you've teamed up for this book, \"The God Conversation,\" which is using stories and illustrations to explain your faith, and one of the things you talk about here, just in terms of beginning the conversation, is the importance of understanding what really communicates, sticks, and stays in a person's mind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Well, when you teach communication, it can be really depressing, because you come across facts that just, as a teacher, as a speaker, one of them is after a conversation, or you listen to your pastor give a sermon \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Are you talking like this broadcast?\u00a0 After this broadcast is over.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Yes, after this broadcast, people will immediately forget half of everything that was said.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Not what Bob says, though.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> No, not what Bob says.\u00a0 That's probably \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I better remember that question that he opened the broadcast for a long time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> And he's going to get letters asking to borrow a typewriter, too, I'll tell you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Well, some of our listeners are saying, \"What's a typewriter?\u00a0 I have no idea.\"\u00a0 So immediately when something is finished, a conversation, a talk sermon, you forget half, then eight hours later it's down to 20 percent.\u00a0 Now, people who study communication have been very interested, what's the 20 percent that people really do retain?\u00a0 And the answer is stories, illustrations, examples, are what people really remember.\u00a0 We start the book with an illustration that I heard 25 years ago, and it's about two elderly ladies in West Virginia. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAn adult bookstore opened in this fairly small community, and these ladies were incensed.\u00a0 So they go to the owner of the bookstore, and they say, \"Would you consider\u00a0 closing down and just moving on?\"\u00a0 And the speaker said the response was not favorable.\u00a0 So they decided to stand out in front of this adult bookstore with cameras and every time somebody came out of the bookstore, they would snap a picture of these \u2013 can you imagine that?\u00a0 \"Mr. Johnson, lovely tie,\" chk, chk.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, they did this for three and a half months.\u00a0 At the end of three and a half months, the guy closes down the bookstore, and the woman confesses at the very end, \"I have to tell you, we didn't even have film in the cameras.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, I heard that 25 years ago, and I remember the illustration and the point the guy was making, which was about community activism, everybody can make a difference in their community, here are two elderly ladies.\u00a0 Twenty-five years later, I remember that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that's the principle of the book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> Well, and the important thing about this principle is we are concerned to empower people to have more courage and have more enthusiasm about talking about spiritual matters with their friends.\u00a0 We want people to overcome the barriers that hinder them from having the confidence to share these things with their friends, and we also want them to be more effective.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so we wrote \"The God Conversation,\" by and large, to give people hands-on tools, hands-on illustrations, usable stories, that they could use that would give them a sense of courage about sharing their faith and make them more effective in leading something with a person they'd remember.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me raise one of those questions that comes up often in presidential election years.\u00a0 It's the idea that, really, all religious views are the same; that as long as someone is sincere in what they believe, that sincerity is somehow pleasing to God, and you should not criticize or critique anyone's personal convictions.\u00a0 Now, that's dominant in the culture today, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> Yes, it is.\u00a0 Now, let me tell you an illustration that answers that, and then, Tim, I'd like you to share one about the maze that we have in the book.\u00a0 I was speaking at a fraternity years ago at the University of Massachusetts, and a gentleman raised this very problem \u2013 \"All religions are the same, we shouldn't judge other people's as wrong,\" and I said to him, \"Tell me what my mother looks like?\"\u00a0 He said, \"I have no idea what she looks like.\u00a0 I've never met you before.\"\u00a0 I said, \"Give it your best shot.\"\u00a0 So he said, \"Oh, she's five feet tall, probably weighs 100 pounds and has blond hair.\u00a0 I asked another gentleman, \"What does my mother look like?\"\u00a0 \"Five-two, 110 pounds, gray hair.\"\u00a0 I asked three guys, \"What does my mother look like?\"\u00a0 They all gave different answers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I responded by saying, \"Now, you can't all be right.\u00a0 My mom can't be five-two, five feet tall, and five-four at the same time; she can't weight 100 pounds, 120 pounds, 140 pounds all at the same time.\"\u00a0 \"Now,\" I said, \"Sir, you think my mom is five feet tall and has blond hair.\u00a0 You can believe that all you want, in fact, you could raise money, you could send missionaries to all corners of the world and persuade half a billion people to believe that my mom is 100 pounds and has blond hair, but that's not going to change anything if she's five-four. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I said \"All these different views of my mother can't be correct, because they contradict one another and, similarly, all the different religions can't be true because they contradict one another.\"\u00a0 One religion says there is no God.\u00a0 Another religion says there are 330 million gods.\u00a0 Another says there's one God, and Jesus was His Son.\u00a0 Another says that there is one God, and if you think Jesus was His Son, you are an infidel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo these religions can't all be right anymore than these contradictory descriptions of a person's mother could all be right, because they can't be fitted together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And another way that you talk about it in your book is around the illustration of roads leading to the top of the mountain \u2013 some get there quicker than others, but we all arrive at the same place, at least that's what people believe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Well, we talked about defeater beliefs, and I think this is one of the most powerful defeater beliefs people have, and that's exactly what you said, Dennis.\u00a0 It doesn't matter what religion, you just have to be sincere.\u00a0 And people \u2013 the more we learn about religions, the more we understand that religions have a history; that they have sacred books; that they have people within their religions that are pretty remarkable people.\u00a0 The mistake I think we make is, \"Well, let me go after your religion, and here are five things I have a problem with Hinduism,\" or \"Five things I have a problem with Islam.\"\u00a0 I think that's just a huge mistake.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Back to what J.P. was talking about \u2013 the height of his mother \u2013 the point of this is that your mother is what she is.\u00a0 There is a standard.\u00a0 She is, what, how tall?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> She's five-four.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Five-four.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and you can produce her to demonstrate that.\u00a0 I mean, you could have said to that group, \"All right, I asked the question, here from behind the curtain is my mother, and we're going to see who is right and who is wrong.\"\u00a0 The challenge in the coffee shop when somebody says, \"Well, this is what I believe about God,\" and somebody else says, \"This is what I believe about God,\" is we can't say, \"Well, God, come out and show us what you're like.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> You know, Bob, I'm not quite so sure we have to produce her, because if you compare me, for example, with the other three men in that conversation, I was the only one that had the credentials that gave me the right to speak about my mother.\u00a0 And I think what we've done in the book is to say Jesus has demonstrated that He has the credentials to speak about His Father in a way that others don't, because He performed miracles, and He rose from the dead.\u00a0 So that if He really rose from the dead, and if I really am my mother's son, then I and Jesus have the credentials to speak about God even if we don't produce Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, there are other ways to address it, but that's one response to that problem.\u00a0 And I think, Tim, in the book, has woven into \"The God Conversation,\" some very interesting things about this mountaintop problem that Dennis raised just a few minutes ago.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> We suggest with the mountain path analogy, one of the biggest problems is take what different people are saying on different paths, and just compare them with each other.\u00a0 For instance, let's ask a very simple question \u2013 who is at the top of the mountain?\u00a0 If we're all on a mountain trying to get to God, when you finally get to the mountain, who is at the top?\u00a0 Well, Buddhism would say no one is at the top.\u00a0 Buddhism does not believe in a personal god.\u00a0 Hindus would say there's 1,000 gods at the top of the mountain.\u00a0 Muslims would say there is one god, and his name is Allah, and any suggestion that there is somebody else other than Allah is really blasphemy to a Muslim.\u00a0 Christians would want to say, Jesus Christ alone is at the top of the mountain.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo \u2013 you ask the question \u2013 is there no god, 1,000 gods, or one god?\u00a0 They all just can't be true, and that just doesn't make sense for them all to be true.\u00a0 So the mountain path analogy, which I think is the working definition people have of religion today is deeply flawed.\u00a0 It just doesn't make sense that all of these paths wildly contradict each other.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe offer a different analogy.\u00a0 We call it the \"maze\" analogy.\u00a0 Let's imagine that it's not all paths leading up a mountain, let's imagine that it's a maze.\u00a0 They actually talk about the Hampton Court maze in England, where you go in, it's all shrubbery that I think is 10 feet tall, and you go, and you get wonderfully all mixed up.\u00a0 When you walk into the maze, immediately, you have to make a decision.\u00a0 Do I take this route or do I go a different route?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Or go right or left, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Yeah, do I go right or left?\u00a0 You can't do both.\u00a0 And some of those routes actually go very deep into the maze.\u00a0 The goal is to get to the center.\u00a0 Others end very quickly.\u00a0 So people would go into the Hampton Court Maze, and they would get horribly lost when it opened in the 1700s.\u00a0 Well, that problem doesn't exist today because they now have a stand that is above the entire maze, and there's a guide who actually stands above the maze, and he can shout down to you, \"Dennis, you're stuck.\u00a0 You need to turn around and go to your right.\u00a0 Bob, yeah, that's going to lead you to a dead end.\"\u00a0 And so if you're frustrated about being in this maze, and you turn around, and I can get you to the center.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I've been in that maze.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Have you really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And there was nobody on the stand in the middle coaching me.\u00a0 People don't think you could walk in the midst of shrubs and totally be lost.\u00a0 Barbara and I were in this thing and, I'm telling you, we did not know which way to go, but we did need that person in the middle going, \"No, left.\u00a0 No, you've already been in that dead end three times.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> And we're arguing in the book that Jesus has the qualifications to be that guide.\u00a0 Now, immediately, somebody is going to say, \"Okay, why Jesus and not Buddha?\u00a0 Why not Ghandi?\"\u00a0 That is a totally valid question.\u00a0 That's why we dedicate two chapters in the book to the Resurrection of Christ, which we believe is Jesus's \u2013 one of His strongest qualifications to be the guide.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That's the trump card in all of this.\u00a0 Paul says without the Resurrection, our faith is in vain.\u00a0 When it gets right down to it, that's what differentiates Jesus from any other religious figure, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> Well I debated a pretty well-known atheist a few years ago who mentioned, \"Why not Buddha?\u00a0 Why not Mohammed?\"\u00a0 And my response was, \"For one thing, Buddha is in his grave, and he's dead, and his body has rotted.\u00a0 Mohammed is in his grave, and he's dead.\u00a0 Jesus's grave is empty, and He's still alive.\"\u00a0 And if you have a death problem, that's not a bad thing to know about the man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo the idea is that if Jesus didn't raise from the dead, then all bets are off.\u00a0 But if he did, and if the New Testament documents are reliable, they provide solid information that we're not dealing with an ordinary man here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, what we want to insist on in \"The God Conversation\" is that you don't have to be a scholar to be able to answer these questions.\u00a0 There are a few illustrations, there are a small handful of facts you can learn that can help a person have the confidence to share about the Resurrection of Jesus without having to major in New Testament studies.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> For example, when it comes to the Resurrection, really, there's two defeater beliefs, I think, when it comes to the Resurrection.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> And, remember, a defeater belief is something that blocks a person from believing something.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It's a presupposition that somebody will have?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> Yeah, that will keep you from actually believing the Resurrection or something like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> All right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> The two defeater beliefs when it comes to the Resurrection, I think, are, first, the disciples were lying.\u00a0 They were lying about the Resurrection, because a lot of the reasons we believe in the Resurrection is based on eyewitness accounts, and those happened to be the disciples.\u00a0 So people tend to think, \"Well, they were lying, they wanted to start a religion.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecond, is that fantasy, legend has crept into the New Testament.\u00a0 If the listeners are familiar with the Jesus Seminar, the Jesus Seminar believes that legend has crept into the New Testament, so Jesus started off as a social activist doing good.\u00a0 And, over the years and centuries, He went from being a good, moral, activist to the Son of God Himself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because people made Him that in their own minds, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> As time went on.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So what do you do with the defeater belief that the eyewitnesses are unreliable?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> Well, the first thing you show is that gave their lives to hardship, to incredible strain.\u00a0 They got very little out of it.\u00a0 They ended up being executed for what they claimed to have seen, and we actually list a number of those facts about the disciples.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yeah, yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> Who was martyred and how.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yeah, I've got to read that, because I read this to Barbara earlier today \u2013 \"James, son of Zebedee was beheaded; Philip was scourged, thrown in prison and crucified; Matthew was slain\" \u2013 I didn't\u00a0 know this \u2013 \"with a crude half-axe\/half sword weapon called\" \u2013 what do you call that?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> Halberd.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> A halberd; Andrew, and then he was crucified; Mark was dragged to pieces; Bartholomew was beaten and crucified; Peter was crucified; and, as Barbara said, only John made it with a cush assignment on the Isle of Patmos.\u00a0 So they really did die horrific deaths.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> And here is the illustration to slip in \u2013 a very popular movie today is \"Catch Me if you Can.\"\u00a0 It's the true story of Frank Abagnale.\u00a0 Leo DeCaprio plays him, and it's a fascinating movie because he becomes a professional liar.\u00a0 I mean, to the extent that he passes off as a Pan Am pilot; he wrote bogus checks totaling $40,000, which, at that time was a lot of money; he forged a Harvard University Law Diploma; got a job at the Louisiana State Attorney's Office.\u00a0 His most daring fraud was he totally passed himself off as the attending pediatrician at a Georgia hospital where he got away with it because he made all of his residents actually do the procedures.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo you ask the question \u2013 why would he lie?\u00a0 Well, the reason Frank Abagnale would lie because it got him fame, money, and everything he wanted.\u00a0 So, Dennis, you ask the question, \"Okay, the disciples are lying.\u00a0 They made up this whole thing about Jesus rising from the dead.\u00a0 What did they get out of it?\"\u00a0 And they got exactly what you just mentioned \u2013 crucified, dragged to pieces, and you're like, \"Okay, on three, let's make up a lie and die for it.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I remember Chuck Colson talking about the Watergate lie and famously saying, \"Look, we couldn't keep this under wraps for half a decade,\" and if the disciples had concocted some kind of a conspiracy, that would have fallen apart pretty quickly under the scrutiny of local eyewitnesses who could have come and said, \"Now, wait, that doesn't match up with what you said over here.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yeah, and I've got to say, Bob, I think these two authors, Tim and J.P., I think they have a conspiracy, I really do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>J.P.:<\/strong> You've found us out, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I did find you out.\u00a0 This is two books.\u00a0 I was reading this, and I was thinking, \"Those rascals.\u00a0 They have crafted a book on how to share your faith and done it masterfully to equip singles, moms and dads, people in the marketplace as well as teenagers to know how to share their faith, but also in this book is a great apologetic for why you believe what you believe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so what it does, I think, Bob, is it strengthens any follower of Christ in his or her pursuit of Him and gives you all kinds of reasons why it's rational to believe, and it's good to be a follower of Christ.\u00a0 And you know what?\u00a0 Keep on being a follower of Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and the more you understand the rationality of the Christian faith, the more comfortable you are sitting down with somebody and saying, \"Can we have this kind of a conversation?\u00a0 Can we have a God conversation,\" because you feel confident that if somebody says, \"Well, what about this?\"\u00a0 You go, \"You know, I've thought that through, and there's a rational response for that and here it is.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo you're right.\u00a0 This book really does equip you to have confidence in the rationality of the Christian faith, and then to know how to engage people in that kind of a conversation.\u00a0 The book is called \"The God Conversation,\" and if you'd like to find a copy, we'll make it easy for you.\u00a0 Go to our website, FamilyLife.com, on the right side of the home\u00a0 page, you'll see a box that says \"Today's Broadcast,\" and if you click there, it will take you to an area of the site where there is more information about the book by J.P. Moreland and Tim Muehlhoff called \"The God Conversation\" and other books that help you understand not only what you believe but why it makes sense to believe it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBooks like \"Mere Christianity\" by C.S. Lewis, Jerry Bridges' new book called \"The Gospel for Real Life.\"\u00a0 There are other resources available there.\u00a0 Again, go to our home page at FamilyLife.com and click on the right side of the home page where it says \"Today's Broadcast,\" and that will take you to the area of the site where you can get more information about how to receive these resources. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can order online, if you'd like, or call us at 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and we can make arrangements to have the resources you need sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to take just a minute, if I can, Dennis, to say thanks to those folks who help support the ministry of FamilyLife Today and help keep us on the air not only in this city but other cities all across the country.\u00a0 You are generous folks, and we appreciate your partnership with us.\u00a0 We appreciate your support of this radio program.\u00a0 It really is an encouragement to know that you believe so strongly in what we're doing that you're willing to help support the ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd this week when you make a donation of any amount, we have a thank you gift we'd like to send you \u2013 a book called \"The New Eve,\" by Dr. Robert Lewis.\u00a0 Robert was on our program a number of weeks ago talking about this book, and many of you called to get a copy.\u00a0 We think it's a very helpful book, and it's our gift to you this week when you make a donation of any amount for FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you're donating online, when you come to the keycode box on the donation form, type in the word \"Eve,\" and we'll know to send a copy of the book to you.\u00a0 Or if you call 1-800-FLTODAY to make a donation, you can simply ask for a copy of \"The New Eve,\" and, again, we're happy to send it out to you.\u00a0 We appreciate your partnership with us, and it's always nice to hear from you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTomorrow J.P. Moreland and Tim Muehlhoff are going to be back with us, and we're going to continue having a conversation about having a God conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas \u2013 help for today; hope for tomorrow.\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t_______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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