{"id":301505,"date":"2008-01-11T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2008-01-11T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/creating-a-healing-environment\/"},"modified":"2008-01-11T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2008-01-11T17:00:00","slug":"creating-a-healing-environment","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/creating-a-healing-environment\/","title":{"rendered":"Creating a Healing Environment"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>How can you make your home a place of rest and healing?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-01-11.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"12.09M","filesize_raw":"12675838","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2849],"tags":[4927,4527,2877],"podcast_series":[7560],"cwp_profile":[3396],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301505","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-drifting-apart","tag-challenges","tag-communication","tag-marriage","podcast_series-married-but-not-engaged","cwp_profile-paul-and-sandy-coughlin","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301505\/creating-a-healing-environment","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301505\/creating-a-healing-environment","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"GCmDdIY6QF\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/creating-a-healing-environment\/\">Creating a Healing Environment<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/creating-a-healing-environment\/embed\/#?secret=GCmDdIY6QF\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Creating a Healing Environment&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"GCmDdIY6QF\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var 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healing?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-01-11.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0The sins of passivity are legion.\u00a0 The passive lifestyle is absolutely full of sin but, unfortunately, it's not the real noticeable sin, especially at church.\u00a0 You can be a Christian nice guy, you can show up to church for an hour and a half, two, two and a half hours on a Sunday, maybe on a Wednesday.\u00a0 No one is ever going to know because you Christian nice guys are very good chameleons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, January 11th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 If you married a nice guy and found things aren't as nice as you thought they were going to be, stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Larry:<\/strong>\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, I'm your host, Larry the Cucumber.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Excuse me, Larry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Larry:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah?\u00a0 Hey, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0What is going on here?\u00a0 What are you doing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Larry:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, you know, I've always kind of wanted to be a radio host, and I've been on TV for a while, and I love the radio \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Larry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Larry:<\/strong>\u00a0So I'm just looking for, like a new career opportunity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Are you married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Larry:<\/strong>\u00a0Who \u2013 who me?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Because this is a show about marriage and family.\u00a0 That's what we're trying to do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Larry:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, marriage and family?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Don't quit your day job, okay?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Larry:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Mike Nuraki [sp] is here with us.\u00a0 Mike, thank you for stopping in.\u00a0 This is a big day for you guys.\u00a0 Your movie, \"The Pirates\" \u2013\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0\"The Pirates Who Don't Do Anything,\" that's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0It's in theaters all across the country starting today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Starting today, yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0And you have \u2013 do you have the Johnny Depp or the Orlando Bloom role in this one?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, more of the Johnny Depp. You know, Larry has that little goatee thing going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell us about the movie.\u00a0 What's it about?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, but I should clarify first that the script was written before even the first \"Pirates of the Caribbean\" movie came out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0That's what they all say, that's what they all say.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Larry:<\/strong>\u00a0So it was our idea first.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0We had it before Disney, yeah, I understand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, man, it's a great film.\u00a0 It's sort of a time travel film.\u00a0 It's the \"Three Amigos\" meet \"Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, we hope the film has great success.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0There you go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0We hope lots of folks will go see it, and can I take the show back and get things started here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, sure, you can go right ahead. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Larry:<\/strong>\u00a0You can go right ahead and do that.\u00a0 But, needless to say, they go back in time \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0\u2026 and help rescue the prince.\u00a0 It's a great lesson, and we incorporate a great biblical value about how God calls us into adventure and equips us with what we need to heed that call.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Cool.\u00a0 Thanks for stopping by.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, you're welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0And I'll see if I can get us back on track here.\u00a0 We're going to talk about what happens in marriage when you marry a really nice guy, and then there are some challenges being married to a really nice guy.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Do you think, Dennis, when you and Barbara got married, were you a nice guy?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0You know, I don't think anybody ever accused me at that age of being a nice guy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0It just wasn't the adjective that came to mind?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0I don't think it was, and our guests on today's broadcast will help bring some meaning to your statement, Bob, because our listeners are going, \"That was really nice, Bob, to say about your friend Dennis, here, on the broadcast.\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But Paul and Sandy Coughlin join us on FamilyLife Today again.\u00a0 Paul, Sandy, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sandy:<\/strong>\u00a0Thanks for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Thanks for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0Paul and Sandy have written a book called \"Married but not Engaged.\"\u00a0 It's all about men being real, being honest and open, it's really the story of their marriage and how Sandy loved Paul out of his shell, and encouraged him to come on out from being a \"Christian nice guy\" as Bob was talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Paul speaks to men's groups around the country; has a radio program; has written a number of books, they've written a number of books together, and they have three children and live in Medford, Oregon, and this book really is interesting how it kind of peels back the term \"Christian nice guy.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Explain to our listeners why \u2013 now, again, you don't know me well \u2013 but why, more than likely, I would not have been known as a Christian nice guy when I first married Barbara.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Because you are assertive, proactive, you lead.\u00a0 Christian nice guys don't do those things. You can see it in your countenance and how you hold yourself.\u00a0 Christian nice guys are all about hiding who they are; they're not about going out there and having an abundant life.\u00a0 They may want an abundant life, but they really don't know how to get there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And, again, this is fake niceness I'm talking about.\u00a0 Kindness is a virtue.\u00a0 We need more kindness in the world, and kindness is a word that is synonymous with nice.\u00a0 This is not real kindness.\u00a0 It's fake, it's \"I'm going to be nice to you not because I necessarily care about you.\u00a0 I do not want to have conflict with anyone or anything.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0And what you're talking about leads to kind of a crazy place in marriage, and the reason it leads to a crazy place is because when you've got a guy who is thinking, \"Well, I'm trying to avoid conflict in our marriage.\u00a0 I'm trying to keep a peaceful relationship.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0And a wife is frustrated by that?\u00a0 Sandy, why would you be frustrated with a guy who is trying to keep things peaceful?\u00a0 He's trying to be nice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sandy:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I wanted to be known, and I wanted to know Paul more, and so we were not getting the intimacy that we needed in our marriage.\u00a0 It started out okay, but when you long for that intimacy, and when it was not happening, that's when I started realizing something wasn't right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0And, Bob, it was actually peace faking, not peacemaking.\u00a0 Making peace is hard work.\u00a0 Making peace means that both people put their stuff on the table, and you work it out while still keeping the other person's dignity intact, you still show respect to the other person, but you disagree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Conflict can be intimacy in disguise if it is handled properly.\u00a0 I can tell you from experience not handling it properly is to go passive at those moments of disagreement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0You have a quote in your book, I'm going to turn to it here \u2013 by Dr. Paul Coleman \u2013 \"A complaint is an intimate moment in disguise.\"\u00a0 An intimate moment in disguise?\u00a0 What do you mean by that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0It can be if it's handled with integrity, with \u2013 when you don't shame and guilt the other person.\u00a0 Complaints, legitimate complaints, happen in life, right?\u00a0 You have two people coming together trying to create this great union of marriage, and when you show yourself in a real way with a real concern, and the other person comes back in a very real way and very real honesty, then that's about the only time you can get together and get to the heart of a matter.\u00a0 And then after you get to the heart of the matter, you've got closeness that you just didn't have before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Sandy, were there times in your relationship with Paul in your marriage when he would be deferring to you, and you would be thinking, \"Okay, this is nice that you're deferring to me, but I'd rather have you do what you want or say what you want than to defer to me all the time?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sandy:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely.\u00a0 And that's where I think I didn't respect Paul.\u00a0 I started respecting Paul later on when he would step up to the plate and handle situations and make decisions and have an opinion and tell me what he was feeling.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Even if you disagreed and even if you didn't like what he was saying, you respected him more if he'd stand up?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sandy:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely, even if I didn't agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Bob, I get that comment constantly at conferences \u2013 and e-mails.\u00a0 Wives of Christian nice guys who say, \"I would want him to even get angry \u2013 I just want him to express some emotion.\u00a0 I want him to be knowable.\u00a0 He just won't let me know him.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0I think \u2013 we've talked about two things already here that are significant that we really need to make sure guys are hearing.\u00a0 One is this whole idea that deference is not necessarily kindness or attractive to a woman.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, that doesn't mean that you always say it's got to be my way or the highway, right?\u00a0 That's an obnoxious jerk.\u00a0 But the guy who is always saying, you know, what would you like to do, honey?\u00a0 Where would you like to go?\u00a0 A guy can be thinking, \"Hey, I'm just trying to be a nice guy,\" and his wife can be going, \"No, you say what you want to do, otherwise this isn't really a relationship.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0Women want to be led.\u00a0 They want to be led in a direction and \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0They don't always act like they want to be led.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0No, they don't.\u00a0 They'll sometimes shake it up, and Barbara goes, \"No, I want you to ask me what I want to do.\"\u00a0 So it's not going to be a puzzle that you figure out once and for all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Which is the other thing that I think we need to help a nice guy understand, and that is that conflict can be healthy, intimate, and important in a relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, Bob, how about you commenting on this?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I think I just have, you know?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Just by drawing these \u2013 I mean, I recognize \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0Conflict is \u2013 when you and I first starting working together you admitted to me that conflict was something \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0I'm conflict averse, okay?\u00a0 I mean, who likes conflict \u2013 nobody is raising their hand right now and going, \"Boy, I love it when we really get into one.\"\u00a0 But I would be the kind of guy who would be more deferential and more of a peace faker and I \u2013 you know, I'm okay with this.\u00a0 I can put my own preferences to the side and defer to others.\u00a0 That seems like a really \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0Noble, noble thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Spiritual thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0And there are times that that is the right thing to do, no doubt.\u00a0 But an entire marriage based on that \u2013 not because you're trying to be thoughtful but because you're being fearful, and when you have that fear, as I did, you have resentment under the surface, and you resent your spouse, and she didn't even know that I would have that resentment because I never made it plain.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Have you ever watched the deep sea divers on television, and there's a giant squid and they put their hand down, and they go to grab the squid.\u00a0 What does the squid do just before he touched?\u00a0 Squirts out ink \u2013 defuses the situation where you literally cannot see the squid while it retreats.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Well, that's what Christian nice guys do with silence.\u00a0 And so \u2013 and then, also, too, when you hold in that inner truth, those things you're really thinking \u2013 \"let your yes be a yes and your no be a no,\" as the Bible says.\u00a0 When you do that, you don't allow yourself the opportunity to learn how to be tactful in the things that you say.\u00a0 It takes a long time, particularly in marriage, to learn how to say something without unnecessary pain and suffering.\u00a0 Speaking the truth without being gracious is like surgery without anesthesia.\u00a0 Does it get the job done?\u00a0 Yeah, I suppose it does, but, boy, there's a lot of unnecessary pain that goes along with that.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But you don't learn that as a Christian.\u00a0 Nice guy when you're in hiding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0Sandy, what does it feel like, as a wife, to be married to this nice guy who is manipulating you, as an assertive woman \u2013 he's manipulating you with his silence, with his non-answers to your questions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you know that was what he was doing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sandy:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, eventually I did, and it's a horrible feeling, but it's really easy to take your words and to start shooting them at him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0So you pulled out the bazooka.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sandy:<\/strong>\u00a0I pulled out the bazooka of shame, and it would only force Paul deeper into his nice guy ice cave.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0And then the covert contracts \u2013 this is what nice guys do \u2013 they call them \"covert contracts.\"\u00a0 I would come home from work and want to get to know my wife, so I would say \u2013 what I should say is, \"Hey, baby, when the kids are asleep, you know, let's you and I retire into the bedroom.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0So that's a covert word for having some romance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0This is Christian radio so I need to be careful here.\u00a0 But instead of being honest and straightforward, being simple with the request, I would worry that I might get rejected.\u00a0 Again, and not like I got rejected a lot before, right, but I just had this script in my mind, this over-arching fear of rejection and conflict.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And so what I would do is I would show her affection when I got home, stroke her beautiful hair, rub her back type of thing, and so that was my way of saying, \"I'm going to show you affection now.\u00a0 Later, you show me affection.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Well, I would never come out and say that.\u00a0 That's what we call covert contracts.\u00a0 I made her sign a contract she never knew she signed.\u00a0 And so, she, being a normal human being who is not clairvoyant did not know that's what I was doing, and so if she didn't return the favor later on, I would do the great passive\/aggressive thing \u2013 get very angry or pout.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0It's a horrible thing, she spoke about being on eggshells previously, it's another example of how the wives of Christian nice guys walk on eggshells.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you have any idea what he was angry or pouting about?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sandy:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I didn't.\u00a0 But because of the silence then \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0He was stroking your hair earlier \u2013 you didn't get that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sandy:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, earlier \u2013 well, we had three little kids so who knows what I thought.\u00a0 I was sleep deprived.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0So you guys really never talked it out.\u00a0 There was no discussion of unmet expectations, disappointment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sandy:<\/strong>\u00a0Not until later on in our marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, Sandy, what does a woman who is married to the pouty, covert, nice guy \u2013 what does she do so that this issue can get out in the open other than get out the bazooka and start firing?\u00a0 Is there anything she can do that will cause this thing to dislodge?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sandy:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.\u00a0 Well, I think the first thing that's important is to be a mirror of reality in his life, and so I would have to show Paul \u2013 and eventually I did \u2013 what this was doing to myself but not just me but what it was doing to him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And then the other thing is, as we started communicating more, I would need to give him room to make mistakes, because it was so easy for me to correct him all the time, I needed to listen and to sit back and let it work itself out.\u00a0 And it would \u2013 we would move two steps forward, one step back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0And, men, it is a whole lot easier to get the room to make mistakes when you start doing the soul work necessary to get over the Christian nice guy problem, to get over this fear of conflict, this fear of disagreement with other people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0There is a reason for that.\u00a0 God did not put that fear in your heart.\u00a0 This world, life experience, gave you that fear.\u00a0 You need to confront that fear because that fear often has with it lies associated with it.\u00a0 It tells you that you're not valuable in God's eyes, which is not true.\u00a0 The prophet Jeremiah told me that we are imbued with great value; that other people are out to get you.\u00a0 That's not true, either.\u00a0 And that you are worthless.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Many people have been abused.\u00a0 Christian nice guys often come from alcoholic backgrounds \u2013 the parents are alcoholics.\u00a0 There is sexual abuse in their background.\u00a0 Many of them are over-protected, so they have this fearful, anxious mindset.\u00a0 It is your soulwork, it is your requirement, to do that work.\u00a0 I believe it is a sin if you don't do that work, because look what it's doing to your family.\u00a0 Look what it did to our relationship, to our marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0We talked about husbands and wives, what about children?\u00a0 Christian nice guys aren't available to their children, they're not emotionally viable.\u00a0 That is a cruel thing to do to a child.\u00a0 When a child wants to connect with you, it is one of the most flattering things in the world to take place.\u00a0 And they want to connect with you probably like no one else in this world is going to want to connect with you.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0When you hold them at arm's length, they don't realize what you're doing to them.\u00a0 They think that there is something wrong with them.\u00a0 They think that they are not worthy of love later on in life because father didn't give it to them.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So if you don't do it for yourself, do it for your kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0Paul, you speak to men's groups all across the country.\u00a0 Do you think we have an epidemic of passive men today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0One study shows that the population, in general, 62 percent have a passive personality.\u00a0 That number jumps up to a whopping 85 percent in the church.\u00a0 There is something about church that attracts that passive person.\u00a0 Passive people are very wounded people.\u00a0 So it's great that they're going in the church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So, yes, it is an epidemic, particularly in the church, and what we need to do to these Christian men is we need to help them learn how to cowboy up.\u00a0 They need to be shown how to be courageous in life and, unfortunately, many of them get this \"gentle Jesus meek and mild.\"\u00a0 That is as fictitious as anything you'll find in Dan Brown's \"The DaVinci Code.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0You know, and the reason I ask that question at that time, I was listening to your description of how young men are growing up today wanting that attachment, that engagement with their dad, and I've got daughters who have all gone to college, and they talked about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0\"Dad, the guys don't initiate.\u00a0 They're passive.\u00a0 They're not willing to take the risk.\u00a0 They're playing it safe.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0They've not been shown how.\u00a0 Courage is better caught than taught.\u00a0 It's great to see it in action, because it takes a lot of the question marks out, and it makes you feel that, \"Well, if the most important man in my life did this, then I can do it, too.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0You know, I think you're right in terms of what men need today.\u00a0 They don't need to be scolded, they don't need the bazooka of shame like you're talking about from a woman.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Recently, my friend, Crawford Loritts, who pastors a church in Atlanta gave a message that I'd heard him give before a number of years ago from the first chapter of Joshua where it commands us to fear not but be courageous.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Joshua and Caleb \u2013 a great example of biblical courage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0Three time the command is there, and one of Crawford's points that I think is \u2013 well, it gives men the courage to step up.\u00a0 He said, \"Courage has a clear assignment from God.\"\u00a0 And I believe masculinity is an assignment from God that He gives to men.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0And he calls men to be men, he said that in 1 Corinthians chapter 16, verse 13 and 14 \u2013 \"Act like men.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0He sure does.\u00a0 I was interviewed by \"Nightline,\" and the reporter asked me, \"Well, what is manliness?\"\u00a0 And I think it is love bolstered by courage.\u00a0 Greeks had a great word for it.\u00a0 It's called \"thumos.\"\u00a0 We don't even really hear that much about it today \u2013 courage coming from a different place.\u00a0 They said it was found in our chests \u2013 courage not so much found in our hearts because our hearts will betray us.\u00a0 Courage is when the head and the heart align, where we have this emotional viability, and our brains, our minds, connect to a truth that is bigger than us.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Of course, we find that in the Bible, so when our hearts are alive, and our brains are engaged into biblical matters, and we go out, we are much better able to take a courageous, many approach toward things than if that weren't the case.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong>\u00a0And you talked earlier on a broadcast about how Jesus really was the ultimate man because He submitted not to the culture, not to other men, but He submitted to the truth of God and to God Himself and as a result courageously depicted what real manhood is really like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And I want to thank you guys.\u00a0 I want to thank you for your work, because I think what you've done here in this book is in a real and \u2013 you'll take this in the right way, Paul, I'm convinced \u2013 in a sneaky way, you've kind of snuck into some people's marriages and lives and kind of come in through a side door, and you called men and women to step up and to be courageous in their relationships and life.\u00a0 We really like giving people courage here on the broadcast.\u00a0 Thanks for being with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you for having us.\u00a0 Thank you for this opportunity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sandy:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you.\u00a0 Thanks for having us here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong>\u00a0I'm just sitting here thinking about Sunday morning at our FamilyLife Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences when we get the guys alone for about 90 minutes, and we get the ladies in a different part of the conference area or the hotel where we're hosting the conference, and we get a chance to talk straight to the men about what it means to be a godly husband and a godly dad and a leader in the home; what it means to step up, and we also get a chance to talk to the wives about the responsibility a wife has, before God, to support and to respect her husband, to be the kind of wife and mom that God has called her to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I was looking at some comments from some of our conferees just recently, and one of the notes that I saw was from a guy who said, \"Sunday morning was significant.\u00a0 That was that time where it was just the men, and we kind of got to challenge the guys man-to-man.\"\u00a0 He said, \"That was the difference-maker point in the weekend for me.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0These really are great weekend getaways for couples, and we're going to be hosting them in dozens of cities all around the country this spring.\u00a0 The reason I'm mentioning it is because our FamilyLife Today listeners have an opportunity this week and next week to register for one of these upcoming conferences and to save $60 per couple off the regular registration fee.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, to do that, you have to register online at FamilyLife.com or call 1-800-FLTODAY and register over the phone, and you have to identify that you're a FamilyLife Today listener.\u00a0 So if you're registering online, what that means is you'll come to a keycode box on the registration form, and you just type my name in there.\u00a0 You just type in \"Bob,\" and we'll know you're FamilyLife Today listener.\u00a0 You're a friend of Bob, and we'll make this special offer available to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If you call 1-800-FLTODAY to register for a conference, just say \"I'm a friend of Bob,\" or \"I'm a FamilyLife Today listener,\" and, again, we'll make the special offer available to you.\u00a0 You will save $60 per couple off the regular registration fee for one of our upcoming conferences.\u00a0 If you need to find out when the conference is coming to a city near where you live so that you can make plans to be at an upcoming conference, go to our website, FamilyLife.com, for that information or call us, and someone can answer any questions you have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a01-800-FLTODAY is the number, and the website, again, is FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 On the website, you'll also find information about the book that Paul and Sandy have written \u2013 \"Married but not Engaged,\" and it's a book that husbands and wives need to read together so that both of them can understand what it is about us guys, us nice guys, that we tend to check out and what both of us can do together to try to re-establish some of the oneness in a marriage relationship that we got married for in the first place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, the book is called \"Married but not Engaged.\"\u00a0 It's available on our FamilyLife website at FamilyLife.com, or you can call to receive a copy of the book at 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Well, I hope you have a great weekend.\u00a0 I hope you and your family are able to worship together this weekend in church, and I hope you can join us back on Monday.\u00a0 Author Gary Thomas is going to be with us, and we're going to talk about ways a wife can be a sacred influence on her husband \u2013 not change him, I didn't say change him, I said be a godly influence on her husband.\u00a0 We'll talk about that Monday.\u00a0 I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back Monday for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t________________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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