{"id":301498,"date":"2008-01-03T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2008-01-03T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/from-a-pretty-good-marriage-to-a-great-marriage\/"},"modified":"2008-01-03T12:00:00","modified_gmt":"2008-01-03T17:00:00","slug":"from-a-pretty-good-marriage-to-a-great-marriage","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/from-a-pretty-good-marriage-to-a-great-marriage\/","title":{"rendered":"From a Pretty Good Marriage to a Great Marriage"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Would you describe your marriage as &#8220;pretty good&#8221;?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2008-01-03.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"10.97M","filesize_raw":"11502960","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2849,2863],"tags":[4927,4527,2877],"podcast_series":[7558],"cwp_profile":[9110],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301498","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-drifting-apart","category-saving-a-marriage","tag-challenges","tag-communication","tag-marriage","podcast_series-the-total-marriage-makeover","cwp_profile-dr-david-clarke","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301498\/from-a-pretty-good-marriage-to-a-great-marriage","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301498\/from-a-pretty-good-marriage-to-a-great-marriage","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"jIC0nsmslV\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/from-a-pretty-good-marriage-to-a-great-marriage\/\">From a Pretty Good Marriage to a Great Marriage<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/from-a-pretty-good-marriage-to-a-great-marriage\/embed\/#?secret=jIC0nsmslV\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;From a Pretty Good Marriage to a Great Marriage&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"jIC0nsmslV\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var 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something really simple can really mess up a marriage relationship.\u00a0 Dr. David Clarke remembers when one of the rules of the house changed, and nobody told him.\u00a0 It all had to do with a bar of soap in the shower.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0For 10 solid years it was whoever was in the shower last, and it came down to a sliver, the person that got in next \u2013 it could be me, it could be Sandy \u2013 had to replace the bar.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0One day, all of a sudden, she changes the rule.\u00a0 Said nothing, you know, so I replaced the bar that one time, I thought, \"All right, fine.\u00a0 I'm a good guy, I love my wife, I can do this one time.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Four or five bars later I said, \"Honey, what's going on?\"\u00a0 She said, \"Dave, you don't want to go there.\"\u00a0 She starts listing all the things she does in the home, so couldn't I at least replace the crummy bar?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, January 3rd.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 And I know you're thinking, \"Come on, this is no big deal,\" right?\u00a0 In some marriages it turns into a huge deal.\u00a0 Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I remember when we were interviewing Coach Bill McCartney a number of years ago, Coach McCartney, of course, was coach of the Colorado Buffalo football team.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Took them to the National Championship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0 That's right, and then he went on to found Promise Keepers, and I remember he was on the platform at a Promise Keepers event one time, and the speaker asked the question \u2013 how would you rate your marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And then he asked, \"How would your spouse rate your marriage?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I think, actually, that was me that asked the question, but he always gave Gary Smalley credit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0What I remember is that Coach McCartney thought he'd probably give his marriage, I don't know, and 8 or a 9, a pretty good score.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And then he thought, well, Lindy would probably score it a little lower than that \u2013 a 6 or a 7.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And then it hit him.\u00a0 Now here's a guy who is ready to take his football teams to the national championship, and he stopped and thought, \"Why would I settle for an 8 or even a 9 in my marriage?\"\u00a0 And yet you look around at Christian marriages, and there are a lot of folks who would say, \"Eh, 7, 8, 9, and they're okay with that.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Right.\u00a0 They settle in for mediocrity, and they never, ever get out of that rut and never experience what our guest on today's broadcast talks about in his book, \"The Total Marriage Makeover.\"\u00a0 Dr. David Clarke joins us.\u00a0 David, welcome to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0It's great to be here, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0David is a counselor, an author, a speaker, and is a trained Christian psychologist.\u00a0 He got a degree at Dallas Theological Seminary; also went on to Western Conservative Baptist Seminary in Portland.\u00a0 He and his wife, Sandy, have been married since 1982.\u00a0 They have four children, and he has written this book, \"The Total Marriage Makeover,\" and, David, in your book you talk about five different types of marriages, and that all of us are in one of these categories.\u00a0 What are those five?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0The five are the \"pretty good marriage\" \u2013 millions of marriages in that category.\u00a0 \"The dead marriage,\" and these are kind of \u2013 you don't stay \"pretty good\" forever.\u00a0 You're going to slip into the \"dead.\"\u00a0 Then it's the \"I want a divorce marriage.\"\u00a0 Then there are \"new marriages,\" something starting that's brand new, and then, finally, \"the great marriage.\"\u00a0 That's where God wants all of us \u2013 the great marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Go back to the pretty good marriage.\u00a0 Wouldn't you think that most of our listeners would categorize their marriage relationship as pretty good?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0I think they would.\u00a0 Probably 80 to 90 percent would say, \"Yeah, we're okay, we're fair.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0That's where people start out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And what's wrong \u2013 I'm thinking, okay, pretty good's not bad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0But back to your illustration, Bob, with Coach McCartney \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You want to have a great marriage, everybody wants to have a great marriage, but I think you think, \"Okay, the reality of life is 'pretty good' is all you're going to get.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Yeah, people have been sold a bill of goods, and I think Satan is behind that, our culture is behind that.\u00a0 You really can't expect anymore than \"this is the way it is.\"\u00a0 That's how a woman is, that's how a guy is, we're okay.\u00a0 That's not what God says.\u00a0 God makes it clear in the Word He wants us all to have a terrific marriage, and He tells us how to do it.\u00a0 So that's why I wrote the book.\u00a0 This is how to have a great marriage.\u00a0 Don't settle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I have to read what you wrote about this.\u00a0 You said, \"This marriage, that is, 'the pretty good marriage,' is unsatisfying, draining, and, frankly, boring.\u00a0 It's nice to be content, comfortable, and stable, but is that why you were married in the first place?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Right, I don't think so.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And your point is no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Huh-uh.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0We need to move on to something different.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Right.\u00a0 I tell couples all the time, you are \u2013 after a first session \u2013 I say you are boring each other to death.\u00a0 You're boring me.\u00a0 Is this what you want?\u00a0 \"Well, no.\"\u00a0 Well, I can tell you how to get \u2013 actually, God can tell you \u2013 I'm just kind of the mouthpiece \u2013 God has shown us the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And what is it that causes couples to be in a pretty good marriage.\u00a0 Are they just settling for dissatisfaction that they shouldn't be settling for?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0I think it happens to all of us.\u00a0 It certainly happened to Sandy and I.\u00a0 You're infatuated.\u00a0 That part of the relationship is fantastic.\u00a0 Everything the person says is unbelievable.\u00a0 I've got a rock in my show.\u00a0 \"You're kidding.\"\u00a0 I mean, it's just insightful.\u00a0 \"Bugs Bunny is my favorite character.\u00a0 \"Mine, too,\" I mean, everything is great.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Sandy could close the car door on my hand, and I would say, \"Honey, no problem, I love you.\"\u00a0 I look at my crippled hand, from now on, I'll think of you.\"\u00a0 I mean, we're great!\u00a0 And then, of course, you get married, and then it starts to break down.\u00a0 \"We are very different,\" \"You annoy me,\" \"I didn't realize this about you.\"\u00a0 Then we have a baby \u2013 disaster!\u00a0 Where babies are, romance dies.\u00a0 The marriage is suspended.\u00a0 Everything is about the baby.\u00a0 We can't resolve conflict, nobody ever taught me how to be a leader in my home, I don't know how to communicate on a deep level.\u00a0 I mean, it breaks down.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So, somewhere in there it becomes \"pretty good.\"\u00a0 And so I think everybody is faced with that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You realized you were at \"pretty good\" when you got in the shower?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0That's exactly right.\u00a0 Yeah, the bar of soap in the shower.\u00a0 When the bar gets down to a sliver, of course, you've got to change the bar.\u00a0 Well, for 10 solid years \u2013 it was close to eight and a half to ten \u2013 whoever was in the shower last, and it came down to a sliver, well, all right, the next person, and you were able to use it, and then, of course, it was okay, then the person that got in next \u2013 it could be me, it could be Sandy \u2013 had to replace the bar.\u00a0 Well, just 10 steps away in the closet, Sandy would always stock the bars \u2013 Irish Spring is what we use, well who cares?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Anyway, one day, all of a sudden, she changes the rule.\u00a0 Said nothing \u2013 I knew from the day before that it was down to a sliver because I'd used it, and I knew that she took a shower that morning \u2013 the night before \u2013 she would have to replace the bar.\u00a0 I thought, well, my life is perfect.\u00a0 I get into the shower, I got the water going, and the sliver is still there!\u00a0 I've got to get wet, I've got to go out and get another bar.\u00a0 I thought, \"What's going on?\"\u00a0 I could have confronted her at that point, but I didn't.\u00a0 I felt I could outlast her, you know, so I replaced the bar that one time, I thought, \"All right, fine.\u00a0 I'm a good guy, I love my wife, I can do this one time.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You really sacrificed there, didn't you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Thank you, Bob, you recognize that.\u00a0 It was a push.\u00a0 Our marriage was hanging in the balance.\u00a0 Anyway, we go through that bar, and it happens again!\u00a0 She refuses to change the bar.\u00a0 She did not replace the sliver.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Now, tell me the truth \u2013 was she doing this intentionally to get your attention?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0You know what?\u00a0 Sandy never does anything by accident.\u00a0 So as we talked about this later on, she had decided that she just didn't want to do it anymore, and she felt like I wasn't doing enough in the home.\u00a0 That's where Dennis going, that's exactly right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And so couldn't I at least replace the crummy bar?\u00a0 Well, she didn't say this to me, but I got the message after several weeks, of course.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0After several bars.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Fine.\u00a0 I made the mistake of confronting her.\u00a0 Four or five bars later I said, \"Honey, what's going on?\u00a0 You know the way we used to work!\"\u00a0 She said, \"Dave, you don't want to go there.\"\u00a0 She starts listing all the things she does in the home, and then the things that I did.\u00a0 Mine was kind of short.\u00a0 I said, \"Oh.\"\u00a0 So starting with the bar I began to do much more in the home.\u00a0 I figured, \"Boy, this could get worse if I don't get going here.\u00a0 What's next?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0The interesting thing is \u2013 little annoyances like that kind of grow and fester, and there are couples today who are looking across the table at each other in not a \"pretty good marriage\" but a \"bad marriage\" or an \"I want out marriage,\" and when you start to peel it away, it's about who is changing the soap in the shower, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0It is \u2013 you're not folding my underwear the right way \u2013 it's the small things.\u00a0 Or the thermostat wars \u2013 all these little petty things that when you're in love and you have passion mean nothing.\u00a0 You overlook it, you don't care.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You actually have a list in which you call the \"battle of the petty.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Yeah, these are pretty funny.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And I'll let you comment on the ones you want to comment about.\u00a0 First of all, \"thermostat wars.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Oh, yeah.\u00a0 Sandy likes it warm at night.\u00a0 I like it cold.\u00a0 We have fought over that for years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0\"Night owl and morning glory.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Oh, yeah.\u00a0 I'm a morning person.\u00a0 I get up at 5:30.\u00a0 I don't even need an alarm.\u00a0 I'm fresh, I'm ready to go.\u00a0 Sandy is just like the land of the walking dead.\u00a0 In the evening, 8:00, I'm done, I'm gone, and she's just perking up and stays up late.\u00a0 That's a problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0\"Mrs. Manners and Mr. Crude.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Yeah, well, next?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0We know which one that is.\u00a0 Number four, \"pack rat and garage saler.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Oh, the pack rat never throws anything out\u2013 used tissues are saved and cataloged.\u00a0 I mean, the whole thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0\"The slob and the neatnik.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0I'm the slob.\u00a0 I don't care about neatness.\u00a0 Why make the bed, you're going to sleep in it tonight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Sleep in it again, that's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Bob's with me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0\"The ratty clothes man.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0That's me, too.\u00a0 I have these old high school \u2013 literally, high school and college t-shirts that I keep wearing because they're comfortable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0So are you a pack rat?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0No, I'm the guy that throws things out.\u00a0 Sandy saves, saves, saves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But not the t-shirts.\u00a0 You don't throw those out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0No.\u00a0 She's got bibs and kids' underwear from when they were babies.\u00a0 Now, that's sick, that's wrong.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Because you've got a 12-year-old, and that's as young as it gets, and you're not planning on any more, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Let it go, honey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0This next one \u2013 I need you to come to our house and counsel Barbara on this one \u2013 \"the closet hog.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Oh, one of the worst offenses.\u00a0 Sandy has three-quarters of my closet, and she doesn't wear half that stuff, anyway.\u00a0 It's ridiculous.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Number eight, \"the incredible phone-talking.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Ohhh, get home from work, get home at lunch and the woman is on the phone, talking, talking, talking, and they repeat the same stories to everybody they talk to.\u00a0 So you hear the same story eight times.\u00a0 Then they want to tell you, and you say, \"I've heard that, honey, eight times.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Number nine, \"never on time.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Oh, yeah, I tend to run a little late, Sandy likes to be places early.\u00a0 That's been a real issue.\u00a0 That was a battle of the petty for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And, finally, \"I'm going to die again?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0That's me.\u00a0 I get a pain in my back, my kidneys are shutting down, I'm going to die.\u00a0 I have months to live maybe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0So you're a hypochondriac.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Headache, brain tumor, always.\u00a0 It's always a worst case.\u00a0 I went to my ophthalmologist a couple of weeks ago.\u00a0 I was having trouble seeing in my right eye, and I panicked.\u00a0 I've got a brain tumor.\u00a0 I go in, he says, that's like a \u2013 he called it an \"aura.\"\u00a0 It's like a migraine thing.\u00a0 He said, \"Stop wasting my time.\u00a0 People are out there with real problems.\"\u00a0 He kicks me out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And so what happens is all these petty things that we laugh about, we've been chuckling here, these things begin to wear us down and slowly the pretty good marriage begins to die until it become what you call \"the dead marriage.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Right, that's where it's going to end up.\u00a0 Nobody wants that but inevitably one day you realize, \"Hm, we lost it.\"\u00a0 The passion is gone, the romance is gone, these petty things are really in the forefront.\u00a0 This woman bugs me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And, you know, here's the thing.\u00a0 Some folks would look at these differences and say, \"Well, the problem is obvious.\u00a0 I married the wrong person.\u00a0 If I had found someone who was more like me then I'd have a happier marriage.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But the reality is, every marriage will have its accumulated list of petty differences.\u00a0 What's the difference between the couples who have them and have a great marriage, and the couples who have the differences and wind up moving toward isolation?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0The ones that have bought and applied the total marriage makeover are doing fantastic.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0There you go.\u00a0 That's it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Well, they begin to do it God's way, which is you can get back if you do the right things as husband and wife, the passion returns, much better than it ever was in infatuation.\u00a0 Now it's deep, now it's mature, and those petty things, actually, they're still there, but you don't care.\u00a0 You are in love with that person, so you don't mind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, you know, we've laughed about this, but people do need training.\u00a0 They need another set of blueprints if they're going to get out of this \"dead marriage\" rut and out of \"the pretty good marriage\" rut and find their way to a great marriage.\u00a0 Unfortunately, when you don't get out of the rut, it does lead ultimately to this next type of marriage, which is \"I want out of this marriage.\u00a0 I want a divorce.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0One person hits the wall \u2013 almost every couple I see, one person wants to save it, and one person says that, \"I want a divorce, I want out.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And, you know, we've laughed about slivers of soap in the shower or about the closet or about the pack rat.\u00a0 Most of the folks that you're seeing who are coming in saying, \"I want out of this marriage,\" it's not because we can't abide by the shower or the closet.\u00a0 Things have gotten deeper than that, but often it can begin there and lead toward a deeper division, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Right, because the separation starts to happen.\u00a0 We spend less and less time together, we avoid each other, we don't talk, we don't go out, we don't make love, and when we do it's not too often, and it's really not too exciting.\u00a0 I mean, the breakdown is just slow.\u00a0 But one day, boom, somebody's done.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0This next description of marriage called \"the new marriage.\"\u00a0 Is this generally when a marriage is starting out, when a couple are first beginning their journey together and all of this is new?\u00a0 Is that it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Right, and it could be even a second or a third marriage, because when you're starting, you've got the infatuation, you've got the chemistry, same old thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But the same things are going to happen to the new marriage.\u00a0 They have plenty of passion, they've got the chemistry \u2013 \"gosh, we're in love\" \u2013 but it's going to break down.\u00a0 They don't realize it yet.\u00a0 They think they've changed partners, if they've been married before, and maybe they had reason to divorce, but now they're starting over, it's going to happen again, and they don't have the tools.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Bob:\u00a0Do couples think that a great marriage is a new marriage that goes on forever?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Oh, yeah, everybody believes that and culture pushes that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But that's not what a great marriage is?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0No \u2013 no, no, no, no.\u00a0 The new marriage only gets you married.\u00a0 Infatuation is designed by God to get you married, it gets the job done.\u00a0 You always lose that, you're supposed to.\u00a0 The culture says \"give up, quit, this is not the right person.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0So if there's supposed to be a difference between the new marriage and the great marriage, what does the great marriage look like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Well, the great marriage is really mature love, and both partners in my mind are doing what God wants them to do.\u00a0 His way always works, every time it's tried, it works.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0As a husband, I'm following His principles in the Bible.\u00a0 The wife is doing her job.\u00a0 We are meshing, we are talking, we're emotionally intimate, we spiritually bond.\u00a0 The world knows nothing of that \u2013 praying together, sharing your spiritual life \u2013 vitally important for any great marriage.\u00a0 We can resolve conflict, we're making love, we have the passion.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I think Sandy is the most beautiful woman in the world.\u00a0 The two of you feel the same way about your wives, and you're right.\u00a0 If I change my mind on that and start looking around, I am in violation of Scripture.\u00a0 She thinks I'm the most beautiful man in the world \u2013 haha, hard to believe.\u00a0 Well, that's faith.\u00a0 Her eyesight has been questioned a number of times.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0However \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You know, at our conferences, and we hold 150 Weekend to Remember conferences each year.\u00a0 We see these couples stream into ballrooms.\u00a0 We see them come, and they have their notebooks in hand, and many of them do not have the foggiest idea of how ill-equipped they were when they started out their marriage to do the very thing you're talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But a couple who are in the \"pretty good marriage,\" the \"dead marriage,\" the \"I want a divorce marriage,\" or the \"new marriage,\" they're all seated out there, and what they don't realize is they are about to get equipped.\u00a0 They need books like yours, they need conference experiences that give them both the same set of blueprints so they can build their house together off that set with the same architect.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But there is hope for a couple that regardless of where they are, they can move to that great marriage achievement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Oh, yeah, no question.\u00a0 I see it in my practice all the time.\u00a0 No matter how bad it is or how good it is, you can always get better.\u00a0 Marriage can always get better.\u00a0 Bill and Cathy Clarke, my folks, have been married now for 51 years, and it is better every year. They have a great marriage.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Sandy and I have what I call a \"great marriage.\"\u00a0 We work at it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Right, you've been married 25 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0It's going to be 25 years in July.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Your parents have been married 51.\u00a0 Why would you characterize your parents' marriage as a great one?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0You know, they are still in love.\u00a0 They hold hands, Dad gets the door for Mom, they have this communion.\u00a0 They read books together, they read the Bible together every morning.\u00a0 Their emotional connection remains strong.\u00a0 They wear the same clothes now \u2013 that happens when you get older, I guess, you know, the same windbreakers.\u00a0 That's not really what the great marriage is about, but they love each other, and they go out on a date once a week.\u00a0 They have for 40-plus years.\u00a0 They still do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And when we're with them, you can just see the holding hands, the glances, they're spiritually connected.\u00a0 I mean, it is a mature love but it's also like a couple of kids.\u00a0 Here they are in their early 70s, and they're like a couple of kids.\u00a0 That's how to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And, you know, as you've described them, and I'm thinking about my marriage to Mary Ann, and I'm thinking a great marriage is ultimately a choice you make to have a great marriage.\u00a0 It's a choice you make to focus and to concentrate and to build.\u00a0 If you think a great marriage is naturally occurring emotions that take you there, you're going to be disappointed, but I had to decide what my emotions are going to be today about my wife.\u00a0 I have to decide where my feelings and affections are going to go and not wait for something just to kind of mystically overtake me and say, \"Gee, where are my affections leading me today?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, what you're talking about, Bob, is you're talking about investing in your marriage relationship \u2013 all those things you discussed \u2013 focus, commitment, attention upon her and your marriage relationship demand time, energy, and they demand a daily investment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And you can't expect to have a great relationship if you're only putting a nickel in every day.\u00a0 If you want to reap heavily at the end of your life together, then you need to invest liberally today.\u00a0 Do the little common courtesies that, yeah, they may only be a nickel \u2013 opening the door, pulling the chair out for her, holding her hand, serving him, getting him something special \u2013 a cup of coffee like he likes it \u2013 but those are the investments that make up a relationship to let the other person know \"I care about you.\u00a0 You're important to me.\u00a0 Your needs are a part of my attentiveness every day.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Those are choices made every day, and if you do, boy, does it pay off.\u00a0 There's nothing worse than even a pretty good or a miserable marriage \u2013 it's so horribly draining.\u00a0 All of life is affected \u2013 nothing better or more invigorating than a great marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Well, you made a point that I think is a profound one for us.\u00a0 You talked about how your wife is the most beautiful woman you know, and mine is as well, and yours is as well, and how she thinks you're the most beautiful guy, the most handsome guy she knows.\u00a0 Again, that can be a choice you make.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0The choice is not to look around and say, \"I wonder who is more beautiful?\"\u00a0 Because Hollywood will give you someone to look at.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid:\u00a0Always somebody new, too.\u00a0 Every couple of years, a new crop.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But the issue is to look, instead, at the wife and say, \"I've decided you're the most beautiful.\"\u00a0 I mean, there is no objective standard for beauty.\u00a0 We can't say, \"Who is more beautiful \u2013 this woman or that woman?\"\u00a0 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yeah. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0So you can make the decision \u2013 my wife is the most beautiful woman I know \u2013 I've decided that, and I don't need to look anywhere else because I've made the choice.\u00a0 She's the one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Barbara and I were married in 1972.\u00a0 You can kind of do the math and figure out that that means we're not pups.\u00a0 We're not just starting it out, you know, we're moving into some \u2013 the time of life when there's some wrinkles \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Yes?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And you can't always exercise and get rid of everything, you know?\u00a0 It's there.\u00a0 Life has a way, gravity does, of just kind of pulling it all down, you know?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So, anyway, I was looking at her the other day, and I did look at her face, and I thought, \"She really is a magnificent-looking woman.\"\u00a0 And you can turn on the television, and you can see a model who has been airbrushed to perfection.\u00a0 In fact, this morning before I came to work, I had the \"Today\" show on watching some matters that were taking place in our nation, and there was an advertisement, and they had a woman who I would like to know how many hours she stood in front of the mirror and \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Put the make up on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0No, it's paint.\u00a0 This is serious paint.\u00a0 This had to be serious paint, but she looked beautiful, and it was under perfect light, perfect conditions, but the problem with a marriage is it's not taking place with perfect light, perfect conditions.\u00a0 It's talking about something that's taken place since 1972 that's had high mountaintops, great, great times, but also some dark, deep valleys that lasted for a long time and, Bob, I think what happens today is what David talks about in his book \u2013 couples are getting up and starting to throw the towel in over so many different things that, frankly, start out to be quite trivial.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And before long they wind up needing a total marriage makeover, which is what you talk about in the book that you've written, which we have in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 If any of our listeners today have said, \"You know, our marriage has some of those things going on.\u00a0 Those are some of the issues we need to address.\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Go to our website, click the red button that you see in the center of the home page that says \"Go,\" and that will take you to an area of the site where there is more information about David Clarke's book, \"The Total Marriage Makeover.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, our website is FamilyLife.com, and you can click the red button that you see on the home page, right in the center, it says \"Go\" on it, and you can order a copy of Dave's book from our site, or you can call us to order a copy at 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.\u00a0 If you call, somebody will make arrangements to get a copy of David's book out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Also, if you can help with a donation of any amount for the ministry of FamilyLife Today, we'd love to send you a copy of the new devotional guide for couples from Dennis and Barbara Rainey.\u00a0 It's called \"Moments With You,\" 365 daily devotions, a page that you can read together each day.\u00a0 It gives you something to talk about, something to pray together about, and it helps you build a stronger relationship with one another, a stronger relationship spiritually, emotionally, it just helps keep you connected.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0We'd love to send you a copy of this book as our thank you gift when you make a donation of any amount this month for the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 You can make that donation online at FamilyLife.com, or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY, make the donation over the phone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If you're donating online, you will come to a keycode box as you fill out the donation form.\u00a0 Just type in the word \"moments,\" and we'll be sure to send you a copy of this devotional book for couples, \"Moments With You,\" or if you call 1-800-FLTODAY and make your donation over the phone, just mention that you'd like the new devotional from Dennis and Barbara Rainey.\u00a0 Again, it's our way of saying thanks for your partnership with us.\u00a0 We appreciate your financial support of this ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Tomorrow David Clarke is going to be back with us.\u00a0 We're going to continue to talk about what we can do to do a little sprucing up, a little freshening of our marriage relationship.\u00a0 I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t________________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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