{"id":301421,"date":"2007-08-22T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2007-08-22T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/novembers-kiss\/"},"modified":"2007-08-22T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2007-08-22T15:00:00","slug":"novembers-kiss","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/novembers-kiss\/","title":{"rendered":"November&#8217;s Kiss"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Love can have its ups and downs.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2007-08-22.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"11.3M","filesize_raw":"11849216","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2817,2808],"tags":[4955],"podcast_series":[7535],"cwp_profile":[9082],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301421","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-choosing-a-spouse","category-newlyweds","tag-preparing-for-marriage","podcast_series-something-about-us","cwp_profile-michael-and-heidi-obrien","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301421\/novembers-kiss","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301421\/novembers-kiss","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"bBoiyXaVxP\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/novembers-kiss\/\">November&#8217;s Kiss<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/novembers-kiss\/embed\/#?secret=bBoiyXaVxP\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;November&#8217;s Kiss&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"bBoiyXaVxP\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2007-08-22.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2007-08-22.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0That was not the case for Michael O'Brien when he was the lead singer of the group, New Song.\u00a0 Here is Michael's wife, Heidi.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0For many years in our married life there was not a foundation of trust.\u00a0 And our first year was so rocky, but as you walk through life together and you grow together and you build trust and you persevere, that goes away, little by little.\u00a0 You just absolutely get to a place where you think, \"No, I am the only person in this man's heart.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, August 22nd.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We're going to hear about how Michael and Heidi O'Brien have persevered not only through the first years of marriage but throughout their entire marriage, and it's a great model for all of us.\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0He made me swoon.\u00a0 I don't know what else to say.\u00a0 He just \u2013 he did.\u00a0 He made me swoon. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition.\u00a0 I was thinking, when you and Barbara \u2013 you got married in '72, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Correct.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0So you're at 35 years of marriage this year?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yep.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you were both in ministry when you got married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0That's correct.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And did you think, at the time, that being in ministry would be an asset or a liability to your marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Oh, no question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0It would be \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Asset all the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0That ministry would make it easier?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Oh, yeah.\u00a0 The thought was you're headed together toward a common mission, and common goal, you're in spiritual battle together, I mean, how could you ever turn against one another?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And when did you find out that there might be some liabilities associated with being married and in ministry together?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Probably on the honeymoon and for sure in the first year of marriage after there were a lot of tears.\u00a0 I mean, our first year was \u2013 I wouldn't want to repeat our first year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0What is it, though, about ministry that makes it uniquely challenging to the marriage relationship, do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, I think, first of all, you're on a spiritual mission together, and so if I understand the Bible, we are in an unseen battle.\u00a0 There is a battle that rages around us and sometimes in our midst that is known as spiritual warfare, and I think a marriage that is engaging around God's purposes ultimately comes under attack itself.\u00a0 I felt like, many times, our marriage was \u2013 well, that there was an enemy trying to drive a wedge between Barbara and me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Even a couple with good hearts headed in the right direction can end up squandering their birthright, their spiritual birthright.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you've talked to a lot of pastors, you've talked to a lot of guys who are in ministry, and one of the challenges you face is that ministry seems so right and so noble that how can it be wrong to be back out traveling to speak here or doing this ministry assignment.\u00a0 How can that be wrong even if it is hard back home, shouldn't that be something your wife just understands and deals with, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, certainly, there are those who have secular jobs, if I can use that term.\u00a0 I actually think we're all employed for spiritual purposes regardless of what we do, but there are those who have to travel as a result of their job, and because of that have some extra stresses that are placed on their marriages, and I don't think a person who is in ministry is excluded from this battle, Bob, and many of our adjustments, arguments, conflicts, battles, occurred around either leaving for a trip, traveling, or coming home and readjusting to one another.\u00a0 I mean, while I was gone, Barbara would do fine pretty much.\u00a0 She learned how to independently function on her own, and then, all of a sudden, I show up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Some guy is back in the house.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And he's got some issues, you know, and it when it was just her issue, she only dealt with hers but now it's both of us.\u00a0 That can have an impact on a marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0We've got some guests who are joining us in the studio today who \u2013 actually, the two of you started off kind of in ministry together.\u00a0 Michael and Heidi O'Brien are in the studio with us, and you met while you were both involved in a singing ministry, Michael, is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael: \u00a0That's correct.\u00a0 I had auditioned down in Miami, and Heidi had auditioned where she was living at the time, it's in Dallas.\u00a0 And then, actually, we first met in Dallas when I went for my second audition.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is an audition to be a part of \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0A group called Heritage Singers.\u00a0 And we basically met in the hallway there at the hotel, and I was dating somebody else at the time, and so she wasn't interested at all.\u00a0 I was completely absorbed \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0No, wait, you were dating someone, so she wasn't interested.\u00a0 Does that mean you were?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0No, not at the time, no.\u00a0 I was dating somebody else, though.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0When did you get interested?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0I checked out on this relationship that I was in about a month later.\u00a0 And I didn't want a girlfriend.\u00a0 It was too complicated.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0So you broke up?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah, we broke up.\u00a0 But she stayed in the group, too, so there was a dynamic there that was kind of tough.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You were traveling a lot together on the road?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yes, we were \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Eight singers \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Eight singers, sound man \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Oh, wait, eight singers and your ex-girlfriend is one of the eight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0In the bus all the time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Oh, this is three's company, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Very crowded, very crowded bus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0But at that time, you know, Heidi is doing her own thing, I was doing my own thing and \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You guys are friends, that's it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Okay, the truth of the matter is I was very young and very infatuated and a major groupie of him, and I thought I was hiding it, this major crush, but everybody \u2013 everybody knew.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You were a groupie of Michael?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Oh, yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Oh, I just heard him sing, and he just made my heart pitter-patter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0So were you aware that there was this kind of cult following?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0One of the girls in the group \u2013 not my ex \u2013 but another girl said one day while I was eating, that she was interested in me.\u00a0 I really didn't think much of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Said that Heidi was interested in you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah, that Heidi was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you thought, \"Oh, well, that's interesting.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah, and then one day I saw her \u2013 and this is a true story \u2013 I walk across the parking lot while I was in the bus, and I looked at her, and I thought, \"That is the most amazing walk I've ever seen in my life.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Now, you'd been on the road singing with her for how long?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Two months.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And, all of a sudden, that walk got you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0It was just like \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Had you not looked around the band and seen who all was in the group?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0I don't know what happened.\u00a0 It was just like a light bulb.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0How long before everybody else in the group knew that Michael like Heidi and Heidi likes Michael and something is going on here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0I was pretty childish at the time, kind of boyish the way I approached even Heidi.\u00a0 I remember even saying, \"The word for the day is yes.\"\u00a0 Am I right, honey, when I said \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Yes, but you're skipping a little bit ahead.\u00a0 We actually had our first kiss on November 1st \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Kiss?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0And we were married a couple of months later.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Not a couple, honey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Three.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Is March 3rd a couple after November?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0November, December.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Oh, no, no, I'm sorry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0January, February.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0I'm bad with numbers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0She's really good in details but really bad with numbers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0I'm bad with numbers, I admit it.\u00a0 I'm a words person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But she remembers November 1st.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Well, so do I.\u00a0 I wrote a song about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Oh, you did?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah, I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Would you mind?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0You're going to make me do it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0It's not \u2013 okay, I guess I could try.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Sure you can.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0We have a little keyboard here in the studio.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0We've set this up because we know that when a man and a woman meet and fall in love there are lots of songs that get written that nobody ever hears except the wife, and we thought, \"Well, that's no good.\u00a0 We want to hear about the first kiss.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0[whispers] You're going to like it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Am I?\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Michael sings]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I have two comments to make.\u00a0 Number one, why is it that some guys get all the lines?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0There are some great lines in there.\u00a0 I've never had a line like that in my life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0I can attest to that, too, by the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0But the other thing I was going to say is I was watching Heidi.\u00a0 She was closing her eyes, and she was back to November and the first kiss, and I have to ask Heidi, is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Really, I mean, I hate to be corny, but it was.\u00a0 It was like a movie moment for me.\u00a0 It was absolutely fireworks, and he made me swoon.\u00a0 I don't know what else to say.\u00a0 He just \u2013 he did, he made me swoon.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0I remember going back to the hotel room, and I was standing with two guys in the group.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Not us together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0No, we were separate, and it was the sweetest kiss I've ever had in my life.\u00a0 I mean, I kept on looking at the guys and, like, guys, you don't know.\u00a0 You just don't understand.\u00a0 It was amazing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Okay, now, even hearing that story and hearing that song, here is where it starts to get a little problematic.\u00a0 There are women who were driving along listening to that song and you singing that on the radio, and they were starting to swoon, too, but they were swooning about you because you've got that great voice, and they were imagining you were singing it about them and, all of a sudden, they're off in this romantic fantasy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Hm.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Do you think?\u00a0 You don't think?\u00a0 Yeah, come on, you know that, don't you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Well, yeah, I mean \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You know that when your husband is singing these love songs, I mean, you know it's about you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But there are women out in the audience wishing it was about them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Well, I think that that's true, but that would be true \u2013 Michael has gotten that \u2013 whenever you're on a platform of any kind, women want you, they do.\u00a0 They see that \u2013 women crave leadership, and they see that person on the platform, especially on a spiritual platform.\u00a0 No matter what women say and whatever the feminists say, down deep inside women want a spiritual man to love and to protect them, to lead them, to cherish them.\u00a0 So whether you're a pastor or a Christian singer or anybody that has a kind of a platform, and they're going to see you, you're going to have women who want a piece of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0So does that bug you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0There was a time \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Yeah, has that bugged you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Yes, there was absolutely a time \u2013 the first, for many years, in our married life there was not a foundation of trust, and I can completed relate to that first year.\u00a0 Our first year was so rocky.\u00a0 It was just crazy.\u00a0 I feel like we're a miracle.\u00a0 I don't know how we made through our first year, and I don't know how we made it through what we call our \"personal dark ages.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Really and truthfully yes, it really did bother me, but as you walk through life together, and you grow together, and you build trust, and you persevere, that goes away little by little.\u00a0 You just absolutely get to a place where you think, \"No, I am the only person in this man's heart.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0What you're describing is an enduring love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And I don't mean to demean your song, in any way, because when you sang that song on November 1st, and that moment occurred, and the magic of that event and the romance of that \u2013 that's all real, but that's puppy love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I mean, I was going to ask you, would you trade what you had then for what you have now?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Not in a second.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Not in a second.\u00a0 What about you, Heidi?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Oh, my goodness, you are so much better with age and to mature and grow and become who you are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You were a nice boy, but you're a nice man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0A lot of people speak that into my life, like, you know, \"You need to stop being a boy, and you need to be a man.\u00a0 Be a man.\"\u00a0 I've heard probably the last seven years over 100 times \u2013 be a man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0When you proposed did you sing your proposal?\u00a0 Did you write a song for your proposal?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0No, I have to be honest, again, I'm not \u2013 I was not a romantic.\u00a0 We were in a mall.\u00a0 We were in mall!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I'm just glad you didn't do it on the bus with the rest of the band there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0I said, \"Hey, do you want to go elope?\" and she said, \"Yeah,\" because we had kind of been talking about it, and I called information \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0\"Hey, you want to go elope?\"\u00a0 \"Yeah.\"\u00a0 Oh, man, this is going to sell a lot of romance records right here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah, it's not good, but eventually we ended up downtown Fort Worth, and the jail Justice of the Peace married us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Seriously?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Five minutes \u2013 yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Huh?\u00a0 You can actually do that today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Well, we had to get \u2013 we had to write up an excuse as to why we didn't have to have the regular three-day waiting period, and we explained we were in a traveling singing group, we don't have a car, we just happened to be in my hometown and have access to this car \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Have to do it today, no blood test in Texas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0And we had to go present this summary of our argument, and we had it signed in divorce court.\u00a0 That was the judge that was there.\u00a0 He goes, \"I hope we don't see you here again.\"\u00a0 We're, like, why?\u00a0 \"Well, you just had your marriage license signed in divorce court.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So the actual regular Justice of the Peace had left for the day and, literally, we're running \u2013 I don't know why we're telling this, this is horrible.\u00a0 Nobody do this, this is just \u2013 don't \u2013 this is not a good godly way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Really, it was not good, it was not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0But it is a funny story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You're running where?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0We're running to the jail Justice of the Peace because the other Justice of the Peace is out.\u00a0 So we run \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0In the correctional facility, there's, you know \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah, the inmates are getting married, and we ended up going in there.\u00a0 Manuel Valdez married us in five minutes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0So was it back on the bus and singing that night?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0The next day.\u00a0 We didn't tell anybody.\u00a0 We wanted to have a marriage celebration, which we ended up doing later in the year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Hold it, hold it, hold it.\u00a0 I've got to figure out where you went from \u2013 was it Juan Valdez \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Manuel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Manuel Valdez \u2013 where did you go from the jail?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0We went to eat dinner \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Oh, this is an awful story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0We went to eat dinner with her parents and family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0My family, and they had just \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You went with your family?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Oh, yeah, it's terrible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And did you tell them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0No, I didn't.\u00a0 They had just told me and warned me not to run off and go get married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0So you understand that we were very childish in some of the decisions that we made when we first got married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I want to know how many lashes her father gave you when he found out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0It was devastating, it was, and that was part of that whole rocky first year because we kept it a secret, but somebody outed us, and my parents found out and were just absolutely \u2013 and rightfully so \u2013 I mean \u2013 I would be crushed, absolutely devastated \u2013 drama, pain.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0What a great way to start a marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Awful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you stop and think if I came to you with this story, \"Hey, Dennis, let me tell you about this couple I know.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yeah, yeah, and let's talk about the odds of this thing going the distance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Yeah, what would you say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I'd say they better have a fierce commitment to Jesus Christ because that will be the only thing that will see them through ultimately to know how to love one another.\u00a0 And, frankly, that's all any of us have when you really get down to it.\u00a0 All of the romance and doing everything perfectly, it still boils down to two very different people, and we haven't talked about how they're different.\u00a0 I mean, here we've got Michael over here who \u2013 give them the \"Reader's Digest\" version of where you came from.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Drugs and alcohol.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Miami?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Miami, Florida \u2013 pornography at the age of six.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Singer, songwriter?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Living from paycheck to paycheck?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Singing in bars, bar managing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yes, and you married somebody who was exactly like you, right, Heidi?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Way polar opposites.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Well, I just was raised in a generational Christian family with just so many boundaries and very protected, extremely sheltered, and I'd only dated, really, one other person besides my husband, and it was very different.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Your mom and dad send you off for a year or two with a Christian singing group thinking there is no safer place that she could be than in this environment, and she gets swooped up by Michael.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You know, I had to think, Dennis, as they were talking about this season of their marriage, I thought about the book that you and Barbara wrote, \"Rekindling the Romance\" where you talk about the seasons of love in a marriage, and new love, what you say is an easy season to be in and to go through, and then there's a season of disappointed love, which you say is a normal part of a relationship.\u00a0 We're all going to go through seasons of disappointment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But then there is the deep, cherishing, committed love that a husband and wife can come to as they persevere in marriage, and I think we've seen a model of that in the story we've heard today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to let our listeners know that we have copies of the CD, \"Something About Us,\" that features the song that you sang earlier, \"November's Kiss,\" and we've got that along with the book, \"Rekindling the Romance,\" both of those are in our FamilyLife Resource Center, and, in fact, if you are interested in ordering both of those together, we can send along at no additional cost, the CD of this conversation with Michael and Heidi O'Brien.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Go to our website, FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 You'll need to click on the red button that says \"Go\" in the middle of the page, and that will take you to the area of the site where there is more information about the book and about the CD and about other resources available from us here at FamilyLife.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, it's FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 You click the red button that says \"Go\" on the home page, or call 1-800-FLTODAY and just mention that you'd like the resources we've talked about here today.\u00a0 It's 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 That's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and we'll be happy to make arrangements to get these resources out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0As we were hearing your story, and I was thinking about it both from your perspective as a young couple getting married and also from the perspective of parents watching all of this happen and not being exactly sure that they like what's going on, and, Dennis, I was thinking about the Challenge Fund that we have during the month of August where listeners have been calling us and making a donation to FamilyLife Today and challenging other folks who share their circumstances to also support the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0We've heard from parents who have teenagers or old children, where they're struggling, and they've called to say \"We appreciate the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 You've helped us with these relationships, and we want to support the ministry, and we want to challenge other parents of teens or young adults who are struggling.\u00a0 We want to challenge them to support the ministry as well.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And then I was thinking about couples who are in their first years of marriage \u2013 some of them in some very difficult circumstances.\u00a0 One listener called and said, \"I want to challenge all those who are in a troubled marriage to consider donating to the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 You have helped me as we've tried to work through some of the situations in our marriage.\u00a0 I want to help support the ministry, and I want to challenge others to do the same.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So we appreciate those of you who have called and have made donations and challenged others.\u00a0 We want to encourage those of you who are regular listeners to consider responding to some of these challenges and making a donation today.\u00a0 You can do that online at FamilyLife.com, or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 Again, the number is 1-800-358-6329 or donate online at FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 We're listener-supported, so these donations are what keep us on the air in this city and in other cities all across the country, and we appreciate those of you who stand with us financially in supporting this ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Well, tomorrow we are going to hear more from Michael and Heidi O'Brien.\u00a0 We'll hear some more music from the new CD, and we're also going to hear about some of the difficult later years in your marriage.\u00a0 I hope our listeners can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t_______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["11.3M"],"filesize_raw":["11849216"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-301421.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-301421.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: 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can have its ups and downs.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2007-08-22.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0That was not the case for Michael O'Brien when he was the lead singer of the group, New Song.\u00a0 Here is Michael's wife, Heidi.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0For many years in our married life there was not a foundation of trust.\u00a0 And our first year was so rocky, but as you walk through life together and you grow together and you build trust and you persevere, that goes away, little by little.\u00a0 You just absolutely get to a place where you think, \"No, I am the only person in this man's heart.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, August 22nd.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We're going to hear about how Michael and Heidi O'Brien have persevered not only through the first years of marriage but throughout their entire marriage, and it's a great model for all of us.\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0He made me swoon.\u00a0 I don't know what else to say.\u00a0 He just \u2013 he did.\u00a0 He made me swoon. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition.\u00a0 I was thinking, when you and Barbara \u2013 you got married in '72, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Correct.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0So you're at 35 years of marriage this year?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yep.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you were both in ministry when you got married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0That's correct.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And did you think, at the time, that being in ministry would be an asset or a liability to your marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Oh, no question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0It would be \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Asset all the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0That ministry would make it easier?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Oh, yeah.\u00a0 The thought was you're headed together toward a common mission, and common goal, you're in spiritual battle together, I mean, how could you ever turn against one another?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And when did you find out that there might be some liabilities associated with being married and in ministry together?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Probably on the honeymoon and for sure in the first year of marriage after there were a lot of tears.\u00a0 I mean, our first year was \u2013 I wouldn't want to repeat our first year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0What is it, though, about ministry that makes it uniquely challenging to the marriage relationship, do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, I think, first of all, you're on a spiritual mission together, and so if I understand the Bible, we are in an unseen battle.\u00a0 There is a battle that rages around us and sometimes in our midst that is known as spiritual warfare, and I think a marriage that is engaging around God's purposes ultimately comes under attack itself.\u00a0 I felt like, many times, our marriage was \u2013 well, that there was an enemy trying to drive a wedge between Barbara and me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Even a couple with good hearts headed in the right direction can end up squandering their birthright, their spiritual birthright.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you've talked to a lot of pastors, you've talked to a lot of guys who are in ministry, and one of the challenges you face is that ministry seems so right and so noble that how can it be wrong to be back out traveling to speak here or doing this ministry assignment.\u00a0 How can that be wrong even if it is hard back home, shouldn't that be something your wife just understands and deals with, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, certainly, there are those who have secular jobs, if I can use that term.\u00a0 I actually think we're all employed for spiritual purposes regardless of what we do, but there are those who have to travel as a result of their job, and because of that have some extra stresses that are placed on their marriages, and I don't think a person who is in ministry is excluded from this battle, Bob, and many of our adjustments, arguments, conflicts, battles, occurred around either leaving for a trip, traveling, or coming home and readjusting to one another.\u00a0 I mean, while I was gone, Barbara would do fine pretty much.\u00a0 She learned how to independently function on her own, and then, all of a sudden, I show up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Some guy is back in the house.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And he's got some issues, you know, and it when it was just her issue, she only dealt with hers but now it's both of us.\u00a0 That can have an impact on a marriage relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0We've got some guests who are joining us in the studio today who \u2013 actually, the two of you started off kind of in ministry together.\u00a0 Michael and Heidi O'Brien are in the studio with us, and you met while you were both involved in a singing ministry, Michael, is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael: \u00a0That's correct.\u00a0 I had auditioned down in Miami, and Heidi had auditioned where she was living at the time, it's in Dallas.\u00a0 And then, actually, we first met in Dallas when I went for my second audition.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is an audition to be a part of \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0A group called Heritage Singers.\u00a0 And we basically met in the hallway there at the hotel, and I was dating somebody else at the time, and so she wasn't interested at all.\u00a0 I was completely absorbed \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0No, wait, you were dating someone, so she wasn't interested.\u00a0 Does that mean you were?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0No, not at the time, no.\u00a0 I was dating somebody else, though.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0When did you get interested?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0I checked out on this relationship that I was in about a month later.\u00a0 And I didn't want a girlfriend.\u00a0 It was too complicated.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0So you broke up?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah, we broke up.\u00a0 But she stayed in the group, too, so there was a dynamic there that was kind of tough.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You were traveling a lot together on the road?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yes, we were \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Eight singers \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Eight singers, sound man \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Oh, wait, eight singers and your ex-girlfriend is one of the eight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0In the bus all the time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Oh, this is three's company, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Very crowded, very crowded bus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0But at that time, you know, Heidi is doing her own thing, I was doing my own thing and \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You guys are friends, that's it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Okay, the truth of the matter is I was very young and very infatuated and a major groupie of him, and I thought I was hiding it, this major crush, but everybody \u2013 everybody knew.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You were a groupie of Michael?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Oh, yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Oh, I just heard him sing, and he just made my heart pitter-patter.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0So were you aware that there was this kind of cult following?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0One of the girls in the group \u2013 not my ex \u2013 but another girl said one day while I was eating, that she was interested in me.\u00a0 I really didn't think much of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Said that Heidi was interested in you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah, that Heidi was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you thought, \"Oh, well, that's interesting.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah, and then one day I saw her \u2013 and this is a true story \u2013 I walk across the parking lot while I was in the bus, and I looked at her, and I thought, \"That is the most amazing walk I've ever seen in my life.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Now, you'd been on the road singing with her for how long?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Two months.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And, all of a sudden, that walk got you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0It was just like \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Had you not looked around the band and seen who all was in the group?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0I don't know what happened.\u00a0 It was just like a light bulb.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0How long before everybody else in the group knew that Michael like Heidi and Heidi likes Michael and something is going on here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0I was pretty childish at the time, kind of boyish the way I approached even Heidi.\u00a0 I remember even saying, \"The word for the day is yes.\"\u00a0 Am I right, honey, when I said \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Yes, but you're skipping a little bit ahead.\u00a0 We actually had our first kiss on November 1st \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Kiss?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0And we were married a couple of months later.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Not a couple, honey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Three.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Is March 3rd a couple after November?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0November, December.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Oh, no, no, I'm sorry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0January, February.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0I'm bad with numbers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0She's really good in details but really bad with numbers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0I'm bad with numbers, I admit it.\u00a0 I'm a words person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But she remembers November 1st.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Well, so do I.\u00a0 I wrote a song about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Oh, you did?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah, I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Would you mind?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0You're going to make me do it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0It's not \u2013 okay, I guess I could try.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Sure you can.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0We have a little keyboard here in the studio.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0We've set this up because we know that when a man and a woman meet and fall in love there are lots of songs that get written that nobody ever hears except the wife, and we thought, \"Well, that's no good.\u00a0 We want to hear about the first kiss.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0[whispers] You're going to like it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Am I?\u00a0 Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Michael sings]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I have two comments to make.\u00a0 Number one, why is it that some guys get all the lines?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0There are some great lines in there.\u00a0 I've never had a line like that in my life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0I can attest to that, too, by the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0But the other thing I was going to say is I was watching Heidi.\u00a0 She was closing her eyes, and she was back to November and the first kiss, and I have to ask Heidi, is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Really, I mean, I hate to be corny, but it was.\u00a0 It was like a movie moment for me.\u00a0 It was absolutely fireworks, and he made me swoon.\u00a0 I don't know what else to say.\u00a0 He just \u2013 he did, he made me swoon.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0I remember going back to the hotel room, and I was standing with two guys in the group.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Not us together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0No, we were separate, and it was the sweetest kiss I've ever had in my life.\u00a0 I mean, I kept on looking at the guys and, like, guys, you don't know.\u00a0 You just don't understand.\u00a0 It was amazing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Okay, now, even hearing that story and hearing that song, here is where it starts to get a little problematic.\u00a0 There are women who were driving along listening to that song and you singing that on the radio, and they were starting to swoon, too, but they were swooning about you because you've got that great voice, and they were imagining you were singing it about them and, all of a sudden, they're off in this romantic fantasy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Hm.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Do you think?\u00a0 You don't think?\u00a0 Yeah, come on, you know that, don't you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Well, yeah, I mean \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You know that when your husband is singing these love songs, I mean, you know it's about you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But there are women out in the audience wishing it was about them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Well, I think that that's true, but that would be true \u2013 Michael has gotten that \u2013 whenever you're on a platform of any kind, women want you, they do.\u00a0 They see that \u2013 women crave leadership, and they see that person on the platform, especially on a spiritual platform.\u00a0 No matter what women say and whatever the feminists say, down deep inside women want a spiritual man to love and to protect them, to lead them, to cherish them.\u00a0 So whether you're a pastor or a Christian singer or anybody that has a kind of a platform, and they're going to see you, you're going to have women who want a piece of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0So does that bug you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0There was a time \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Yeah, has that bugged you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Yes, there was absolutely a time \u2013 the first, for many years, in our married life there was not a foundation of trust, and I can completed relate to that first year.\u00a0 Our first year was so rocky.\u00a0 It was just crazy.\u00a0 I feel like we're a miracle.\u00a0 I don't know how we made through our first year, and I don't know how we made it through what we call our \"personal dark ages.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Really and truthfully yes, it really did bother me, but as you walk through life together, and you grow together, and you build trust, and you persevere, that goes away little by little.\u00a0 You just absolutely get to a place where you think, \"No, I am the only person in this man's heart.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0What you're describing is an enduring love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And I don't mean to demean your song, in any way, because when you sang that song on November 1st, and that moment occurred, and the magic of that event and the romance of that \u2013 that's all real, but that's puppy love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I mean, I was going to ask you, would you trade what you had then for what you have now?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Not in a second.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Not in a second.\u00a0 What about you, Heidi?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Oh, my goodness, you are so much better with age and to mature and grow and become who you are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You were a nice boy, but you're a nice man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0A lot of people speak that into my life, like, you know, \"You need to stop being a boy, and you need to be a man.\u00a0 Be a man.\"\u00a0 I've heard probably the last seven years over 100 times \u2013 be a man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0When you proposed did you sing your proposal?\u00a0 Did you write a song for your proposal?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0No, I have to be honest, again, I'm not \u2013 I was not a romantic.\u00a0 We were in a mall.\u00a0 We were in mall!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I'm just glad you didn't do it on the bus with the rest of the band there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0I said, \"Hey, do you want to go elope?\" and she said, \"Yeah,\" because we had kind of been talking about it, and I called information \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0\"Hey, you want to go elope?\"\u00a0 \"Yeah.\"\u00a0 Oh, man, this is going to sell a lot of romance records right here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah, it's not good, but eventually we ended up downtown Fort Worth, and the jail Justice of the Peace married us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Seriously?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Five minutes \u2013 yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Huh?\u00a0 You can actually do that today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Well, we had to get \u2013 we had to write up an excuse as to why we didn't have to have the regular three-day waiting period, and we explained we were in a traveling singing group, we don't have a car, we just happened to be in my hometown and have access to this car \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Have to do it today, no blood test in Texas.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0And we had to go present this summary of our argument, and we had it signed in divorce court.\u00a0 That was the judge that was there.\u00a0 He goes, \"I hope we don't see you here again.\"\u00a0 We're, like, why?\u00a0 \"Well, you just had your marriage license signed in divorce court.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So the actual regular Justice of the Peace had left for the day and, literally, we're running \u2013 I don't know why we're telling this, this is horrible.\u00a0 Nobody do this, this is just \u2013 don't \u2013 this is not a good godly way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Really, it was not good, it was not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0But it is a funny story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You're running where?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0We're running to the jail Justice of the Peace because the other Justice of the Peace is out.\u00a0 So we run \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0In the correctional facility, there's, you know \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah, the inmates are getting married, and we ended up going in there.\u00a0 Manuel Valdez married us in five minutes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0So was it back on the bus and singing that night?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0The next day.\u00a0 We didn't tell anybody.\u00a0 We wanted to have a marriage celebration, which we ended up doing later in the year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Hold it, hold it, hold it.\u00a0 I've got to figure out where you went from \u2013 was it Juan Valdez \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Manuel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Manuel Valdez \u2013 where did you go from the jail?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0We went to eat dinner \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Oh, this is an awful story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0We went to eat dinner with her parents and family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0My family, and they had just \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You went with your family?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Oh, yeah, it's terrible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And did you tell them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0No, I didn't.\u00a0 They had just told me and warned me not to run off and go get married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0So you understand that we were very childish in some of the decisions that we made when we first got married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I want to know how many lashes her father gave you when he found out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0It was devastating, it was, and that was part of that whole rocky first year because we kept it a secret, but somebody outed us, and my parents found out and were just absolutely \u2013 and rightfully so \u2013 I mean \u2013 I would be crushed, absolutely devastated \u2013 drama, pain.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0What a great way to start a marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Awful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you stop and think if I came to you with this story, \"Hey, Dennis, let me tell you about this couple I know.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yeah, yeah, and let's talk about the odds of this thing going the distance.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Yeah, what would you say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I'd say they better have a fierce commitment to Jesus Christ because that will be the only thing that will see them through ultimately to know how to love one another.\u00a0 And, frankly, that's all any of us have when you really get down to it.\u00a0 All of the romance and doing everything perfectly, it still boils down to two very different people, and we haven't talked about how they're different.\u00a0 I mean, here we've got Michael over here who \u2013 give them the \"Reader's Digest\" version of where you came from.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Drugs and alcohol.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Miami?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Miami, Florida \u2013 pornography at the age of six.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Singer, songwriter?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Yeah.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Living from paycheck to paycheck?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMichael:\u00a0Singing in bars, bar managing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yes, and you married somebody who was exactly like you, right, Heidi?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Way polar opposites.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeidi:\u00a0Well, I just was raised in a generational Christian family with just so many boundaries and very protected, extremely sheltered, and I'd only dated, really, one other person besides my husband, and it was very different.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Your mom and dad send you off for a year or two with a Christian singing group thinking there is no safer place that she could be than in this environment, and she gets swooped up by Michael.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You know, I had to think, Dennis, as they were talking about this season of their marriage, I thought about the book that you and Barbara wrote, \"Rekindling the Romance\" where you talk about the seasons of love in a marriage, and new love, what you say is an easy season to be in and to go through, and then there's a season of disappointed love, which you say is a normal part of a relationship.\u00a0 We're all going to go through seasons of disappointment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But then there is the deep, cherishing, committed love that a husband and wife can come to as they persevere in marriage, and I think we've seen a model of that in the story we've heard today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to let our listeners know that we have copies of the CD, \"Something About Us,\" that features the song that you sang earlier, \"November's Kiss,\" and we've got that along with the book, \"Rekindling the Romance,\" both of those are in our FamilyLife Resource Center, and, in fact, if you are interested in ordering both of those together, we can send along at no additional cost, the CD of this conversation with Michael and Heidi O'Brien.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Go to our website, FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 You'll need to click on the red button that says \"Go\" in the middle of the page, and that will take you to the area of the site where there is more information about the book and about the CD and about other resources available from us here at FamilyLife.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, it's FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 You click the red button that says \"Go\" on the home page, or call 1-800-FLTODAY and just mention that you'd like the resources we've talked about here today.\u00a0 It's 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 That's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and we'll be happy to make arrangements to get these resources out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0As we were hearing your story, and I was thinking about it both from your perspective as a young couple getting married and also from the perspective of parents watching all of this happen and not being exactly sure that they like what's going on, and, Dennis, I was thinking about the Challenge Fund that we have during the month of August where listeners have been calling us and making a donation to FamilyLife Today and challenging other folks who share their circumstances to also support the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0We've heard from parents who have teenagers or old children, where they're struggling, and they've called to say \"We appreciate the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 You've helped us with these relationships, and we want to support the ministry, and we want to challenge other parents of teens or young adults who are struggling.\u00a0 We want to challenge them to support the ministry as well.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And then I was thinking about couples who are in their first years of marriage \u2013 some of them in some very difficult circumstances.\u00a0 One listener called and said, \"I want to challenge all those who are in a troubled marriage to consider donating to the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 You have helped me as we've tried to work through some of the situations in our marriage.\u00a0 I want to help support the ministry, and I want to challenge others to do the same.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So we appreciate those of you who have called and have made donations and challenged others.\u00a0 We want to encourage those of you who are regular listeners to consider responding to some of these challenges and making a donation today.\u00a0 You can do that online at FamilyLife.com, or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 Again, the number is 1-800-358-6329 or donate online at FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 We're listener-supported, so these donations are what keep us on the air in this city and in other cities all across the country, and we appreciate those of you who stand with us financially in supporting this ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Well, tomorrow we are going to hear more from Michael and Heidi O'Brien.\u00a0 We'll hear some more music from the new CD, and we're also going to hear about some of the difficult later years in your marriage.\u00a0 I hope our listeners can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t_______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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