{"id":301323,"date":"2007-03-12T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2007-03-12T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/observing-salvation-in-your-child-what-does-it-look-like\/"},"modified":"2007-03-12T11:00:00","modified_gmt":"2007-03-12T15:00:00","slug":"observing-salvation-in-your-child-what-does-it-look-like","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/observing-salvation-in-your-child-what-does-it-look-like\/","title":{"rendered":"Observing Salvation in Your Child:  What Does it Look Like?"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>How do you know when your child is saved?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2007-03-12.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"11.87M","filesize_raw":"12448839","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2806],"tags":[4722,4818,4159,2209],"podcast_series":[7511],"cwp_profile":[9061],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301323","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-spiritual-development","tag-christianity","tag-evangelism","tag-gospel","tag-parenting","podcast_series-how-children-come-to-faith-in-christ","cwp_profile-jim-elliff","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301323\/observing-salvation-in-your-child-what-does-it-look-like","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301323\/observing-salvation-in-your-child-what-does-it-look-like","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"3AvLcKmp11\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/observing-salvation-in-your-child-what-does-it-look-like\/\">Observing Salvation in Your Child:  What Does it Look Like?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/observing-salvation-in-your-child-what-does-it-look-like\/embed\/#?secret=3AvLcKmp11\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Observing Salvation in Your Child:  What Does it Look Like?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"3AvLcKmp11\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2007-03-12.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2007-03-12.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0We're all sinners, and we will sin until the day that we die.\u00a0 But there is a substantive change, and we are aggravated by our sin, and we long for holiness.\u00a0 In fact, one way you could put it is this \u2013 we long for the holiness, which we cannot fully have until we get to heaven.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, March 12th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 What should you think, as a parent, if your child has prayed to receive Christ but you don't see a whole lot of holiness?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Monday edition.\u00a0 We spent a lot of time last week looking at the issue of children coming to faith in Christ; children making a profession of faith and asking Jesus to come live in their heart.\u00a0 As parents, how can we lead our children to a place where they can make a valid spiritual decision?\u00a0 And when a four-year-old or a five-year-old wants to pray to ask Jesus to come live in his heart, what should we assume about that as parents?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Those are the kinds of issues we were dealing with last week, and we really didn't get a chance to finish all that we wanted to talk about.\u00a0 It was a provocative conversation, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0That's right, and I went to Dallas Seminary, and one day Dr. Hendricks walked into class, and he said, \"Today, gentlemen, I'm going to dust your minds with itching powder.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And we left there scratching our heads.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Trust me, and for some of our listeners, they felt like last week we dusted their minds and hopefully their souls with itching powder.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0With us, for a sixth day here on the broadcast, is Jim Elliff.\u00a0 Jim, I want to welcome you back to FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 You've been a pastor in all kinds of states, and this issue we're talking about here of introducing our kids to Christ looks like a real simple issue.\u00a0 I mean, you come to it, you think, \"Well, a child just needs to place their childlike faith in Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.\"\u00a0 Is it that simple?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Well, in one sense, it is a simple approach to the Lord, that's true, but in the fact that so many of these people who are professing faith in Christ are not showing evidence of really being Christians, as they go on in their lives.\u00a0 Then we realize we've got to look at this thing a lot more closely, and that's what we're trying to do, I think.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0That's exactly right, and the itching powder you've dusted us with has caused us to go back and take a look at, really, the steps that you talk about in childhood conversion, and the first step you talked about was that of conviction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Yes, I would say maybe a better way to put it, Dennis, might be this is what we're observing God do in the heart of our children.\u00a0 First of all, He convicts them of sin and righteousness and of judgment \u2013 actually even convicts them of going to hell, as much as we are afraid to talk about that in our day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Secondly, the Lord reveals Himself to the child.\u00a0 If knowing Christ is what eternal life is all about, according to John 17:3 and many other places, then the Lord must reveal Himself to the child.\u00a0 He is a person, and He can make Himself know or withhold Himself, that's His business, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If you were to come up to me and tell me all about yourself, but I never changed in my facial structure and just looked right over your shoulder at something else and never revealed anything of myself to you, we wouldn't know each other.\u00a0 It takes a revelation of ourselves to each other.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You know, in a mysterious way but a way that is very real to every true Christian, the Lord makes Himself known for who He is.\u00a0 Not just trues on the pages of a book, but we know Him in person up and close.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0This area we're going to talk about today \u2013 regeneration.\u00a0 Now, it's really built upon these first two you've talked about \u2013 conviction and revelation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's right.\u00a0 The third thing we're looking for is regeneration.\u00a0 And if I could just define it, regeneration is the giving of life to a dead soul.\u00a0 We began way back several broadcasts ago talking about the deadness of the soul of a child, they are born in Adam, born without hope, born without life.\u00a0 The Bible says no man seeks God.\u00a0 They have an inability in themselves to turn to God and to repent and believe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0It takes God giving them life to get it going.\u00a0 In fact, let me just make a statement here.\u00a0 The Bible would teach, I believe, when we speak technically about this whole matter, that, really, this giving of life, which is regeneration, precedes their repentance and faith.\u00a0 Because they're dead, God must make them alive in order to repent and believe.\u00a0 Now, that's a technicality.\u00a0 Sometimes those two thoughts are grouped together in the Scripture, but it's an important technicality, because of our understanding of the depravity of man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0God must make them alive.\u00a0 He causes them to be born again, the Scripture says.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Now, could there be a delay?\u00a0 Could there be days between God making somebody alive, and that person responding in faith?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Well, you're talking about something I'd like to toss back to the theologians, and I'm not sure I know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I've got a statement better than that \u2013 I'd like to toss it to God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's right, and I think we'll have some things to talk to Him about when we get to heaven.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Because I think that question, Bob, is a good one.\u00a0 I think, as God works in a human heart, many of us try to make it instantaneous where that life and conversion all occur at the same point, and I think for some people it may occur over a period of time where God is stirring in their soul, bringing about that life, and causing them to come to repentance and ultimately to faith in Christ.\u00a0 Do you think, Jim?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's right.\u00a0 It's possible that the true spirit conviction, when it begins, may be the work of the Holy Spirit internalized, inside the person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And yet, at the same time, a person being regenerated, that happens in an instant in time, doesn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Absolutely, and that regeneration will show itself out, really, in three ways that I've been able to find in the Scripture.\u00a0 First of all, in what we call conversion itself, that's the repentance on the negative side in faith \u2013 repentance in faith \u2013 conversion.\u00a0 We can talk about that in a minute.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Then, also, true heart obedience.\u00a0 And then, in the third place, what we call perseverance, they carry on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, let's back up to the first one that you mentioned.\u00a0 You're talking about a child who repents and believes upon Christ.\u00a0 Now, those listeners who have been with us for this entire series know that you've caused perhaps a few of them to really question whether their children have come to faith in Christ, because it's more than praying a prayer, it's more than reading from a book, it's more than walking the aisle, and so they're asking right now, \"Okay, Jim, what is it?\u00a0 What does it look like \u2013 faith and repentance?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Well, really, repentance is a heart turning away from sin, which results in the hands and the feet and the eyes and the mouth turning away from sin.\u00a0 It results in the behavior changing, but it's a real deep change of mind.\u00a0 It's so profound that it affects the behavior of the person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So the person is brought to that place by that conviction we talked about to hate his sin and now to love the Lord.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And then faith is putting one's trust or one's total hope in Jesus Christ alone for their only salvation.\u00a0 And, you know, when a person repents of sin and puts their trust in Christ, they're not just a one-time repenter and a one-time believer.\u00a0 They then have a lifestyle of repentance and faith.\u00a0 They're a lifelong repenter, and they're a lifelong believer.\u00a0 You see that work of the Holy Spirit within the child resulting in ongoing repentance and ongoing trusting in the Lord.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And, Jim, even though you believe that childhood conversion is not normative, you do believe that this kind of conversion experience, right, that we're talking about here, can occur in a small child's life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0I believe that God can grant life, and that child can repent and believe.\u00a0 When I said \"not normative\" I meant the public expression of that in the history of the church was not normative at an early date because they wanted to see if this child was really a Christian or not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0So in other words, they would want to examine that child's faith and kind of test it to see if that conversion really was a real conversion over a period of time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's exactly right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And maybe in the evangelical church today, we're much too quick to call a child praying a prayer a conversion when we, perhaps, need to take a lesson out of history and simply look backwards a bit and say, \"Maybe we ought to test this child's faith as well?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's right, yes.\u00a0 If we're too quick to do this, we might really continue to add to those unregenerate church members who are on our rolls of the churches.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You've talked about this whole idea of repentance and faith.\u00a0 The next thing to be looking for is obedience.\u00a0 Are you talking about obedience to God or obedience to Mom and Dad?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Both.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I hope, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0But, you know, we need to understand this a little better than we do.\u00a0 We are talking about an obedience that begins in the heart deep down.\u00a0 Out of that knowing Christ, out of that loving Christ, it's something that begins on the inside and works itself out to the external.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You see, the whole constitution of a person who has been regenerated changes.\u00a0 They do right because it is right not just because it's expedient.\u00a0 And though he can sin, he's certainly going to have his greatest aggravations because of that sin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Now here is where a parent steps in and goes, \"This is a real difficult thing for me.\u00a0 My child has made a profession of faith.\u00a0 They've made a commitment, it seems real, they show in interest in church, they show interest in reading the Bible, but there are these habitual areas in my child's life that keep cropping up.\u00a0 Is my child born again or are you saying they're not born again?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Well, I think the Lord knows, number one, and He knows the fact.\u00a0 But how are we going to know and how is that child going to know?\u00a0 He's going to know by the fruit of his life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Richard Baxter, about 350 years ago, when he talked about the verse, \"Without holiness no man will see the Lord,\" he said, \"To be saved without holiness is to see without eyes and to live without life.\"\u00a0 In other words, holiness is so much a part of what it means to be saved.\u00a0 We are saved from sins.\u00a0 Jesus came to this world to save His people from their sins.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So we have this fruit of obedience, this fruit of holiness.\u00a0 When I was in Florida, I planted some orange trees.\u00a0 They grew some pathetic looking oranges, but they weren't grapefruits, and I could tell the difference.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So we're not talking about perfection, and this is why we want to look at that obedience over a period of time and help the child see by looking at that they can gain a good objective assurance that they really have been changed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Sometimes a child may get discouraged in the fact that they continually disobey and have to be disciplined, and one of the things that I've encouraged, even a disobedient child with, is the fact that the pattern of their life is moving in the positive direction.\u00a0 They're not perfect, but they're getting better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And as we see that, we know the Lord is at work.\u00a0 In fact, I remind them I'm not perfect, but I'm getting better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, as you were saying that, Bob, I was thinking, \"It's not only children who get discouraged that they have to be disciplined.\"\u00a0 Barbara and I were having this conversation last night.\u00a0 She just was expressing some discouragement that she still has certain areas of her life that she battles, and she's struggling against, and I am, too, you know?\u00a0 And you wish you were free of this battle against sin and the battle against the flesh and the world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0And that wish, that desire you just expressed, is an indication of this work of the Holy Spirit in you.\u00a0 It's not perfection, please.\u00a0 In fact, one way you could put it is this \u2013 we long for the holiness, which we cannot fully have until we get to heaven.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And so all the way between here and heaven, you know, if you don't love holy people, love God's Holy Book, love holiness in your living, then heaven would be hell to you.\u00a0 Heaven is about holiness, and God has prepared us now by making us obedient, regenerating us on the way to that heaven so that we long for that which we cannot fully have 'til we get there, if that makes sense.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0It does.\u00a0 Let's move on to the third area you talk about in regeneration \u2013 the first area being repentance and faith, the second area is obedience, this third is perseverance.\u00a0 Now, what do you man by that, Jim \u2013 perseverance?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Well, I just simply mean that the faith that we have been given of God by this regeneration is a continuing faith, and it keeps on producing good works.\u00a0 It keeps on producing that holiness right on through to the end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0In the Bible, Jesus, for instance, told a story about the seed that was put in various soils, and one of those soils produced a plant that sprang up temporarily.\u00a0 When the sun came out, it withered up, and it was gone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And then the soil that was the right soil, the well-prepared soil, we could say \"prepared by conviction,\" I think, tilled up by conviction.\u00a0 When the seed was dropped into that soil, it bore fruit, and it continued to bear fruit.\u00a0 Luke 8 tells us it continued with perseverance to bear fruit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0That faith and then that good works, which come out of that faith, continue right through to the end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0This perseverance that you're talking about, Jim, as I observe this in my child, I'm going to watch him or her perhaps go through periods of dryness spiritually, where they look apathetic toward things of God, but they'll come back to the faith.\u00a0 They'll continue to go back to their spiritual roots and will obey Christ and will maintain a teachable heart, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's it.\u00a0 They are repenters at heart and believers, at heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I want to take you to a child, and let's say what happens, Mom or Dad go into the bedroom with the child, and maybe the child is eight, nine years of age, and you go in to pray with them at night.\u00a0 And maybe you've read a book, you've interacted with them, and you're sitting on the edge of their bed, and they look back at you, and they say, \"Dad and Mom, how do I know I'm a Christian?\u00a0 How can I be really certain about my relationship with God?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, maybe it's not asked that clearly, as we are articulating here as an adult, but maybe it's a sensitivity-to-God question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You know what I think sometimes happens is a child ask it about his sibling \u2013 \"Mom, Dad, how can I be sure little brother is really a Christian?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yeah, that could be a tipoff.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And they may be asking it more about themselves than about little brother.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Well, we need to be free to let that kind of talk happen, and it ought to be nurtured in the family because doubts do come, and I think that I would answer the child just the way I answered my child about that question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I said to my child one night, \"You know, son, if we took a seed of a certain kind of flower, and we looked at that seed carefully, we might say, 'Well, you know, that's a chrysanthemum seed.'\"\u00a0 Do chrysanthemums have seeds, by the way?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yes, they do, they do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Can you call them mums, because I can't pronounce that word?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You can call them mums.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0All right, that's the seed of a mum.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0That's organically correct, by the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Okay, great, all right, so \u2013 but, you know, I'm not 100 percent sure that's a mum.\u00a0 It may look like some other flower seed as well.\u00a0 Then I plant it in the ground, and a little tendril comes up out of the ground, and I might say, \"You know, that looks like a mum coming up there, but I'm not really sure it's a mum yet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Then some other foliage comes out.\u00a0 It looks more like a mum, but I'm not absolutely sure, am I?\u00a0 And then, all of a sudden, there's a bud.\u00a0 I'm more sure.\u00a0 And then a flower and, son, when we see the flower, then we know, for sure, don't we, that that seed was the real thing.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And I just simply tell my children, and they understand it, and they appreciate it \u2013 sometimes it just takes awhile, particularly in a child, to see if what you think you have is the real thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Let's go on, let's pray together, let's seek to repent of sin, let's talk about these things, and we'll see the unfolding of the life of God if He really is in you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I'm thinking of my son, Benjamin, who professed faith in Christ one night \u2013 well, actually, it was the next day after I was talking to his sister about the second coming of Christ.\u00a0 And Ashley had asked me about the second coming of Christ, and I'd said, \"Well, He'll come back, and He'll take the Christians out of the earth.\"\u00a0 And she said, \"Well, what will happen to those who don't know Christ?\"\u00a0 And I said, \"Well, I've really got to leave that up to God.\u00a0 If they're children, if they're babies, you know, those who haven't had a chance yet to come to terms with their relationship with Christ.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And a little head popped off the top of the bunk above, and it was Benjamin.\u00a0 He said, \"Dad, could I talk with you about that tomorrow?\"\u00a0 And I said, \"Sure, son.\"\u00a0 And so we met the next day, actually, I talked with him and Benjamin and his mom and I, and he indicated a decision for Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, we raised him in a Christian home, and we've been through a lot of conferences and Bible studies and church attendance and all that, and it wasn't until recently that he made the decision to be baptized publicly, and he made a great profession of faith publicly in front of several hundred people at our church, and I had the privilege of baptizing him.\u00a0 It was a great moment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But the fruit that is happening in his life, even right now as we speak, Jim, is perhaps even more important than the testimony he gave in that baptismal service at our church.\u00a0 Because he's in the middle of a prayer meeting, a revival that's taking place at the campus where he goes to college, and he's calling people to repent, calling people to come to faith in Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, that's the flower that you're talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's it, that's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And did it occur back there that evening?\u00a0 Did that regeneration, that stirring of the spirit occur at the top bunk as he was hearing about the second coming of Christ?\u00a0 I don't know.\u00a0 I don't know how it all happened.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Over in John, chapter 3, it talks about the spirit blowing where it may, and it's like the wind.\u00a0 You can't see it, you can only see where it's been and how it's bending the leaves, and that really is how Barbara and I have watched the Lord's work in our own children's lives.\u00a0 Watching Him work and yielding to Him wanting to be a part of that work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And, you know, we can't, as parents, manufacture those moments, we can't orchestrate them, you can't make them happen, but you can have an environment in your home where the things of God are talked about regularly.\u00a0 And that's where I think a book like the one Ray Comfort has written called \"How to Bring Your Children to Christ and Keep Them There,\" is a helpful resource for moms and dads because it helps us make sure we've got a grip on the Gospel ourselves and then gives us very practical ways in which we can, as Jim's talked about, we can fan the embers whenever we see them \u2013 whenever we see a spark, we can blow on it and just see what God does with it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If you'd like to get a copy of Ray Comfort's book, \"How To Bring Your Children to Christ and Keep Them There,\" go to our website, FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 You'll see a red button, the now-famous \"Go\" button that we've talked about on FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 If you're a new listener, go see the \"Go\" button.\u00a0 And you click that, it will take you right to an area of the site where there's more information about Ray Comfort's book, about a book that you and Barbara have written, Dennis, called \"Growing a Spiritually Strong Family.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Other resources that are available from us here at FamilyLife Today on this subject, and if any of our listeners would like to get both of these books that we've talked about, we'll send along at no additional cost the CD audio of our conversation on the subject with Jim Elliff.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, our website is FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 Go there and click the \"Go\" button that you see in the middle of the screen, and that will take you to an area of the site where there is more information on these resources, or if it's more convenient for you to call 1-800-FLTODAY, that's our toll-free number \u2013 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 That's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.\u00a0 Someone on our team can answer any questions you might have about any of these resources or make arrangements to have them sent out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0There's one other thing we want to ask you to do this month, if we can.\u00a0 We'd like to ask you to make a donation to the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 We're listener-supported, so we need your donations month in and month out to help support this ministry, keep it on the air in this city and in other cities all across the country.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0During the month of March, we're asking you to make a donation with another thought in mind, and that is we would like to distribute Resurrection Eggs, a tool that we've developed to explain the Easter story and the Gospel message to children and to adults.\u00a0 We'd like to distribute as many sets of these as we can to people who may have never heard the message of the Gospel, and here is how we're doing that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0When you make a donation this month of any amount, two things are going to happen.\u00a0 First, we're going to send a set of Resurrection Eggs to our friends at Here's Life Inner City.\u00a0 They are going to make sure that that set gets in the hands of a child or a family living in the inner city that needs to hear the Gospel message.\u00a0 It will be a gift to them because of your financial support for the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0A second thing is going to happen, though, and that is we're going to send you a set of Resurrection Eggs, and we're going to ask you to put those in the hands of someone you know who needs to hear the Gospel.\u00a0 So if we can enlist you in that effort, what you need to do is go to our website, FamilyLife.com, and fill out a donation form online.\u00a0 Again, make a donation of any amount, and when you come to the keycode box, we need you to type the word \"eggs\" into that box, and that way we'll know that you'd like to get a sent of these sent to the inner city and a set sent to you as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, our website is FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 Type the word \"eggs\" into the keycode box, or you can make a donation over the phone by calling 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329 and, again, just mention that you'd like to help with the Resurrection Eggs this month.\u00a0 We'll know what you're talking about, and we'll get a set sent off to you and another set sent into the inner city.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So let me say thanks in advance for partnering with us on this and for your support of the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 We appreciate you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Well, tomorrow we want to talk about a very delicate subject \u2013 how can we have assurance that our children have been genuinely saved?\u00a0 Can we have assurance and can a child have assurance of his or her salvation?\u00a0 We'll talk about that tomorrow with Jim Elliff.\u00a0 I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t________________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["11.87M"],"filesize_raw":["12448839"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-301323.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-301323.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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do you know when your child is saved?","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2007-03-12.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0We're all sinners, and we will sin until the day that we die.\u00a0 But there is a substantive change, and we are aggravated by our sin, and we long for holiness.\u00a0 In fact, one way you could put it is this \u2013 we long for the holiness, which we cannot fully have until we get to heaven.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, March 12th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 What should you think, as a parent, if your child has prayed to receive Christ but you don't see a whole lot of holiness?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Monday edition.\u00a0 We spent a lot of time last week looking at the issue of children coming to faith in Christ; children making a profession of faith and asking Jesus to come live in their heart.\u00a0 As parents, how can we lead our children to a place where they can make a valid spiritual decision?\u00a0 And when a four-year-old or a five-year-old wants to pray to ask Jesus to come live in his heart, what should we assume about that as parents?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Those are the kinds of issues we were dealing with last week, and we really didn't get a chance to finish all that we wanted to talk about.\u00a0 It was a provocative conversation, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0That's right, and I went to Dallas Seminary, and one day Dr. Hendricks walked into class, and he said, \"Today, gentlemen, I'm going to dust your minds with itching powder.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And we left there scratching our heads.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Trust me, and for some of our listeners, they felt like last week we dusted their minds and hopefully their souls with itching powder.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0With us, for a sixth day here on the broadcast, is Jim Elliff.\u00a0 Jim, I want to welcome you back to FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 You've been a pastor in all kinds of states, and this issue we're talking about here of introducing our kids to Christ looks like a real simple issue.\u00a0 I mean, you come to it, you think, \"Well, a child just needs to place their childlike faith in Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.\"\u00a0 Is it that simple?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Well, in one sense, it is a simple approach to the Lord, that's true, but in the fact that so many of these people who are professing faith in Christ are not showing evidence of really being Christians, as they go on in their lives.\u00a0 Then we realize we've got to look at this thing a lot more closely, and that's what we're trying to do, I think.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0That's exactly right, and the itching powder you've dusted us with has caused us to go back and take a look at, really, the steps that you talk about in childhood conversion, and the first step you talked about was that of conviction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Yes, I would say maybe a better way to put it, Dennis, might be this is what we're observing God do in the heart of our children.\u00a0 First of all, He convicts them of sin and righteousness and of judgment \u2013 actually even convicts them of going to hell, as much as we are afraid to talk about that in our day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Secondly, the Lord reveals Himself to the child.\u00a0 If knowing Christ is what eternal life is all about, according to John 17:3 and many other places, then the Lord must reveal Himself to the child.\u00a0 He is a person, and He can make Himself know or withhold Himself, that's His business, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If you were to come up to me and tell me all about yourself, but I never changed in my facial structure and just looked right over your shoulder at something else and never revealed anything of myself to you, we wouldn't know each other.\u00a0 It takes a revelation of ourselves to each other.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You know, in a mysterious way but a way that is very real to every true Christian, the Lord makes Himself known for who He is.\u00a0 Not just trues on the pages of a book, but we know Him in person up and close.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0This area we're going to talk about today \u2013 regeneration.\u00a0 Now, it's really built upon these first two you've talked about \u2013 conviction and revelation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's right.\u00a0 The third thing we're looking for is regeneration.\u00a0 And if I could just define it, regeneration is the giving of life to a dead soul.\u00a0 We began way back several broadcasts ago talking about the deadness of the soul of a child, they are born in Adam, born without hope, born without life.\u00a0 The Bible says no man seeks God.\u00a0 They have an inability in themselves to turn to God and to repent and believe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0It takes God giving them life to get it going.\u00a0 In fact, let me just make a statement here.\u00a0 The Bible would teach, I believe, when we speak technically about this whole matter, that, really, this giving of life, which is regeneration, precedes their repentance and faith.\u00a0 Because they're dead, God must make them alive in order to repent and believe.\u00a0 Now, that's a technicality.\u00a0 Sometimes those two thoughts are grouped together in the Scripture, but it's an important technicality, because of our understanding of the depravity of man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0God must make them alive.\u00a0 He causes them to be born again, the Scripture says.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Now, could there be a delay?\u00a0 Could there be days between God making somebody alive, and that person responding in faith?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Well, you're talking about something I'd like to toss back to the theologians, and I'm not sure I know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I've got a statement better than that \u2013 I'd like to toss it to God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's right, and I think we'll have some things to talk to Him about when we get to heaven.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Because I think that question, Bob, is a good one.\u00a0 I think, as God works in a human heart, many of us try to make it instantaneous where that life and conversion all occur at the same point, and I think for some people it may occur over a period of time where God is stirring in their soul, bringing about that life, and causing them to come to repentance and ultimately to faith in Christ.\u00a0 Do you think, Jim?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's right.\u00a0 It's possible that the true spirit conviction, when it begins, may be the work of the Holy Spirit internalized, inside the person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And yet, at the same time, a person being regenerated, that happens in an instant in time, doesn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Absolutely, and that regeneration will show itself out, really, in three ways that I've been able to find in the Scripture.\u00a0 First of all, in what we call conversion itself, that's the repentance on the negative side in faith \u2013 repentance in faith \u2013 conversion.\u00a0 We can talk about that in a minute.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Then, also, true heart obedience.\u00a0 And then, in the third place, what we call perseverance, they carry on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, let's back up to the first one that you mentioned.\u00a0 You're talking about a child who repents and believes upon Christ.\u00a0 Now, those listeners who have been with us for this entire series know that you've caused perhaps a few of them to really question whether their children have come to faith in Christ, because it's more than praying a prayer, it's more than reading from a book, it's more than walking the aisle, and so they're asking right now, \"Okay, Jim, what is it?\u00a0 What does it look like \u2013 faith and repentance?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Well, really, repentance is a heart turning away from sin, which results in the hands and the feet and the eyes and the mouth turning away from sin.\u00a0 It results in the behavior changing, but it's a real deep change of mind.\u00a0 It's so profound that it affects the behavior of the person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So the person is brought to that place by that conviction we talked about to hate his sin and now to love the Lord.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And then faith is putting one's trust or one's total hope in Jesus Christ alone for their only salvation.\u00a0 And, you know, when a person repents of sin and puts their trust in Christ, they're not just a one-time repenter and a one-time believer.\u00a0 They then have a lifestyle of repentance and faith.\u00a0 They're a lifelong repenter, and they're a lifelong believer.\u00a0 You see that work of the Holy Spirit within the child resulting in ongoing repentance and ongoing trusting in the Lord.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And, Jim, even though you believe that childhood conversion is not normative, you do believe that this kind of conversion experience, right, that we're talking about here, can occur in a small child's life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0I believe that God can grant life, and that child can repent and believe.\u00a0 When I said \"not normative\" I meant the public expression of that in the history of the church was not normative at an early date because they wanted to see if this child was really a Christian or not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0So in other words, they would want to examine that child's faith and kind of test it to see if that conversion really was a real conversion over a period of time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's exactly right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And maybe in the evangelical church today, we're much too quick to call a child praying a prayer a conversion when we, perhaps, need to take a lesson out of history and simply look backwards a bit and say, \"Maybe we ought to test this child's faith as well?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's right, yes.\u00a0 If we're too quick to do this, we might really continue to add to those unregenerate church members who are on our rolls of the churches.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You've talked about this whole idea of repentance and faith.\u00a0 The next thing to be looking for is obedience.\u00a0 Are you talking about obedience to God or obedience to Mom and Dad?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Both.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I hope, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0But, you know, we need to understand this a little better than we do.\u00a0 We are talking about an obedience that begins in the heart deep down.\u00a0 Out of that knowing Christ, out of that loving Christ, it's something that begins on the inside and works itself out to the external.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You see, the whole constitution of a person who has been regenerated changes.\u00a0 They do right because it is right not just because it's expedient.\u00a0 And though he can sin, he's certainly going to have his greatest aggravations because of that sin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Now here is where a parent steps in and goes, \"This is a real difficult thing for me.\u00a0 My child has made a profession of faith.\u00a0 They've made a commitment, it seems real, they show in interest in church, they show interest in reading the Bible, but there are these habitual areas in my child's life that keep cropping up.\u00a0 Is my child born again or are you saying they're not born again?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Well, I think the Lord knows, number one, and He knows the fact.\u00a0 But how are we going to know and how is that child going to know?\u00a0 He's going to know by the fruit of his life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Richard Baxter, about 350 years ago, when he talked about the verse, \"Without holiness no man will see the Lord,\" he said, \"To be saved without holiness is to see without eyes and to live without life.\"\u00a0 In other words, holiness is so much a part of what it means to be saved.\u00a0 We are saved from sins.\u00a0 Jesus came to this world to save His people from their sins.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So we have this fruit of obedience, this fruit of holiness.\u00a0 When I was in Florida, I planted some orange trees.\u00a0 They grew some pathetic looking oranges, but they weren't grapefruits, and I could tell the difference.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So we're not talking about perfection, and this is why we want to look at that obedience over a period of time and help the child see by looking at that they can gain a good objective assurance that they really have been changed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Sometimes a child may get discouraged in the fact that they continually disobey and have to be disciplined, and one of the things that I've encouraged, even a disobedient child with, is the fact that the pattern of their life is moving in the positive direction.\u00a0 They're not perfect, but they're getting better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And as we see that, we know the Lord is at work.\u00a0 In fact, I remind them I'm not perfect, but I'm getting better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, as you were saying that, Bob, I was thinking, \"It's not only children who get discouraged that they have to be disciplined.\"\u00a0 Barbara and I were having this conversation last night.\u00a0 She just was expressing some discouragement that she still has certain areas of her life that she battles, and she's struggling against, and I am, too, you know?\u00a0 And you wish you were free of this battle against sin and the battle against the flesh and the world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0And that wish, that desire you just expressed, is an indication of this work of the Holy Spirit in you.\u00a0 It's not perfection, please.\u00a0 In fact, one way you could put it is this \u2013 we long for the holiness, which we cannot fully have until we get to heaven.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And so all the way between here and heaven, you know, if you don't love holy people, love God's Holy Book, love holiness in your living, then heaven would be hell to you.\u00a0 Heaven is about holiness, and God has prepared us now by making us obedient, regenerating us on the way to that heaven so that we long for that which we cannot fully have 'til we get there, if that makes sense.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0It does.\u00a0 Let's move on to the third area you talk about in regeneration \u2013 the first area being repentance and faith, the second area is obedience, this third is perseverance.\u00a0 Now, what do you man by that, Jim \u2013 perseverance?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Well, I just simply mean that the faith that we have been given of God by this regeneration is a continuing faith, and it keeps on producing good works.\u00a0 It keeps on producing that holiness right on through to the end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0In the Bible, Jesus, for instance, told a story about the seed that was put in various soils, and one of those soils produced a plant that sprang up temporarily.\u00a0 When the sun came out, it withered up, and it was gone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And then the soil that was the right soil, the well-prepared soil, we could say \"prepared by conviction,\" I think, tilled up by conviction.\u00a0 When the seed was dropped into that soil, it bore fruit, and it continued to bear fruit.\u00a0 Luke 8 tells us it continued with perseverance to bear fruit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0That faith and then that good works, which come out of that faith, continue right through to the end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0This perseverance that you're talking about, Jim, as I observe this in my child, I'm going to watch him or her perhaps go through periods of dryness spiritually, where they look apathetic toward things of God, but they'll come back to the faith.\u00a0 They'll continue to go back to their spiritual roots and will obey Christ and will maintain a teachable heart, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's it.\u00a0 They are repenters at heart and believers, at heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I want to take you to a child, and let's say what happens, Mom or Dad go into the bedroom with the child, and maybe the child is eight, nine years of age, and you go in to pray with them at night.\u00a0 And maybe you've read a book, you've interacted with them, and you're sitting on the edge of their bed, and they look back at you, and they say, \"Dad and Mom, how do I know I'm a Christian?\u00a0 How can I be really certain about my relationship with God?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, maybe it's not asked that clearly, as we are articulating here as an adult, but maybe it's a sensitivity-to-God question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You know what I think sometimes happens is a child ask it about his sibling \u2013 \"Mom, Dad, how can I be sure little brother is really a Christian?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yeah, that could be a tipoff.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And they may be asking it more about themselves than about little brother.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Well, we need to be free to let that kind of talk happen, and it ought to be nurtured in the family because doubts do come, and I think that I would answer the child just the way I answered my child about that question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I said to my child one night, \"You know, son, if we took a seed of a certain kind of flower, and we looked at that seed carefully, we might say, 'Well, you know, that's a chrysanthemum seed.'\"\u00a0 Do chrysanthemums have seeds, by the way?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yes, they do, they do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Can you call them mums, because I can't pronounce that word?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You can call them mums.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0All right, that's the seed of a mum.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0That's organically correct, by the way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0Okay, great, all right, so \u2013 but, you know, I'm not 100 percent sure that's a mum.\u00a0 It may look like some other flower seed as well.\u00a0 Then I plant it in the ground, and a little tendril comes up out of the ground, and I might say, \"You know, that looks like a mum coming up there, but I'm not really sure it's a mum yet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Then some other foliage comes out.\u00a0 It looks more like a mum, but I'm not absolutely sure, am I?\u00a0 And then, all of a sudden, there's a bud.\u00a0 I'm more sure.\u00a0 And then a flower and, son, when we see the flower, then we know, for sure, don't we, that that seed was the real thing.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And I just simply tell my children, and they understand it, and they appreciate it \u2013 sometimes it just takes awhile, particularly in a child, to see if what you think you have is the real thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Let's go on, let's pray together, let's seek to repent of sin, let's talk about these things, and we'll see the unfolding of the life of God if He really is in you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I'm thinking of my son, Benjamin, who professed faith in Christ one night \u2013 well, actually, it was the next day after I was talking to his sister about the second coming of Christ.\u00a0 And Ashley had asked me about the second coming of Christ, and I'd said, \"Well, He'll come back, and He'll take the Christians out of the earth.\"\u00a0 And she said, \"Well, what will happen to those who don't know Christ?\"\u00a0 And I said, \"Well, I've really got to leave that up to God.\u00a0 If they're children, if they're babies, you know, those who haven't had a chance yet to come to terms with their relationship with Christ.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And a little head popped off the top of the bunk above, and it was Benjamin.\u00a0 He said, \"Dad, could I talk with you about that tomorrow?\"\u00a0 And I said, \"Sure, son.\"\u00a0 And so we met the next day, actually, I talked with him and Benjamin and his mom and I, and he indicated a decision for Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, we raised him in a Christian home, and we've been through a lot of conferences and Bible studies and church attendance and all that, and it wasn't until recently that he made the decision to be baptized publicly, and he made a great profession of faith publicly in front of several hundred people at our church, and I had the privilege of baptizing him.\u00a0 It was a great moment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But the fruit that is happening in his life, even right now as we speak, Jim, is perhaps even more important than the testimony he gave in that baptismal service at our church.\u00a0 Because he's in the middle of a prayer meeting, a revival that's taking place at the campus where he goes to college, and he's calling people to repent, calling people to come to faith in Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, that's the flower that you're talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJim:\u00a0That's it, that's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And did it occur back there that evening?\u00a0 Did that regeneration, that stirring of the spirit occur at the top bunk as he was hearing about the second coming of Christ?\u00a0 I don't know.\u00a0 I don't know how it all happened.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Over in John, chapter 3, it talks about the spirit blowing where it may, and it's like the wind.\u00a0 You can't see it, you can only see where it's been and how it's bending the leaves, and that really is how Barbara and I have watched the Lord's work in our own children's lives.\u00a0 Watching Him work and yielding to Him wanting to be a part of that work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And, you know, we can't, as parents, manufacture those moments, we can't orchestrate them, you can't make them happen, but you can have an environment in your home where the things of God are talked about regularly.\u00a0 And that's where I think a book like the one Ray Comfort has written called \"How to Bring Your Children to Christ and Keep Them There,\" is a helpful resource for moms and dads because it helps us make sure we've got a grip on the Gospel ourselves and then gives us very practical ways in which we can, as Jim's talked about, we can fan the embers whenever we see them \u2013 whenever we see a spark, we can blow on it and just see what God does with it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If you'd like to get a copy of Ray Comfort's book, \"How To Bring Your Children to Christ and Keep Them There,\" go to our website, FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 You'll see a red button, the now-famous \"Go\" button that we've talked about on FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 If you're a new listener, go see the \"Go\" button.\u00a0 And you click that, it will take you right to an area of the site where there's more information about Ray Comfort's book, about a book that you and Barbara have written, Dennis, called \"Growing a Spiritually Strong Family.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Other resources that are available from us here at FamilyLife Today on this subject, and if any of our listeners would like to get both of these books that we've talked about, we'll send along at no additional cost the CD audio of our conversation on the subject with Jim Elliff.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, our website is FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 Go there and click the \"Go\" button that you see in the middle of the screen, and that will take you to an area of the site where there is more information on these resources, or if it's more convenient for you to call 1-800-FLTODAY, that's our toll-free number \u2013 1-800-358-6329.\u00a0 That's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.\u00a0 Someone on our team can answer any questions you might have about any of these resources or make arrangements to have them sent out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0There's one other thing we want to ask you to do this month, if we can.\u00a0 We'd like to ask you to make a donation to the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 We're listener-supported, so we need your donations month in and month out to help support this ministry, keep it on the air in this city and in other cities all across the country.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0During the month of March, we're asking you to make a donation with another thought in mind, and that is we would like to distribute Resurrection Eggs, a tool that we've developed to explain the Easter story and the Gospel message to children and to adults.\u00a0 We'd like to distribute as many sets of these as we can to people who may have never heard the message of the Gospel, and here is how we're doing that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0When you make a donation this month of any amount, two things are going to happen.\u00a0 First, we're going to send a set of Resurrection Eggs to our friends at Here's Life Inner City.\u00a0 They are going to make sure that that set gets in the hands of a child or a family living in the inner city that needs to hear the Gospel message.\u00a0 It will be a gift to them because of your financial support for the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0A second thing is going to happen, though, and that is we're going to send you a set of Resurrection Eggs, and we're going to ask you to put those in the hands of someone you know who needs to hear the Gospel.\u00a0 So if we can enlist you in that effort, what you need to do is go to our website, FamilyLife.com, and fill out a donation form online.\u00a0 Again, make a donation of any amount, and when you come to the keycode box, we need you to type the word \"eggs\" into that box, and that way we'll know that you'd like to get a sent of these sent to the inner city and a set sent to you as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, our website is FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 Type the word \"eggs\" into the keycode box, or you can make a donation over the phone by calling 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-358-6329 and, again, just mention that you'd like to help with the Resurrection Eggs this month.\u00a0 We'll know what you're talking about, and we'll get a set sent off to you and another set sent into the inner city.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So let me say thanks in advance for partnering with us on this and for your support of the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 We appreciate you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Well, tomorrow we want to talk about a very delicate subject \u2013 how can we have assurance that our children have been genuinely saved?\u00a0 Can we have assurance and can a child have assurance of his or her salvation?\u00a0 We'll talk about that tomorrow with Jim Elliff.\u00a0 I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t________________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. 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