{"id":301287,"date":"2007-01-23T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2007-01-23T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/turning-excess-into-healing\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:42:35","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:42:35","slug":"turning-excess-into-healing","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/turning-excess-into-healing\/","title":{"rendered":"Turning Excess Into Healing"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>On the broadcast today, Graham and Treena Kerr tell how they&#8217;ve sought to live for Jesus without compromise, which has always been rewarding yet not without its challenges.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2007-01-23.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"18.91M","filesize_raw":"19823868","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2851],"tags":[4925,4525,4853],"podcast_series":[7501],"cwp_profile":[9057],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301287","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-finances","tag-budgets","tag-finances","tag-money","podcast_series-recipe-for-life","cwp_profile-graham-and-treena-kerr","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301287\/turning-excess-into-healing","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301287\/turning-excess-into-healing","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"kZSZaeFFxT\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/turning-excess-into-healing\/\">Turning Excess Into Healing<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/turning-excess-into-healing\/embed\/#?secret=kZSZaeFFxT\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Turning Excess Into Healing&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"kZSZaeFFxT\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"On the broadcast today, Graham and Treena Kerr tell how they've sought to live for Jesus without compromise, which has always been rewarding yet not without its challenges.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2007-01-23.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You know the ads you see that say, \"You need this,\" \"You've got to have this,\" \"This will make you happy,\" \"You can't live without it?\"\u00a0 Graham Kerr, the Galloping Gourmet, says it's time for Christians to stand up and say, \"No, that's not true.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0It's like we, as Christians, are standing in front of a tank at Tiananmen Square and saying, \"Excuse me, we need to have a dialog with you,\" the driver of that tank.\u00a0 \"You are making us uncivilized in our behavior, and we are going to take the excess that you have conditioned us to desire, and we're going to turn that around for healing.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, January 23rd.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We're going to talk with Graham and Treena Kerr today about learning to live out-dulgently.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.\u00a0 I'm just curious, you knew that we were going to be interviewing Graham Kerr and his wife, Treena.\u00a0 Did you make anything special for breakfast this morning?\u00a0 Did you \u2013 a little Hollandaise sauce on your Eggs Benedict, anything like that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I'm just impressed you know about that, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I didn't have anything this morning.\u00a0 I had a couple of \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You skipped breakfast?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0No, I had some grapes, I grabbed some grapes, a little fruit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0I had some grapes as well, how amazing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Did you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Yes, that's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0I had a fruit smoothie, does that count for anything?\u00a0 I mean, I just don't want to be left out here of the Fraternal Order of Grapes or whatever is going on here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Treena, Graham, welcome to our broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Thank you so much, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0That British accent that you're listening to, of course, is that of Graham Kerr, who was, for a number of years, the Galloping Gourmet and, I suppose, for many people you'll always be the Galloping Gourmet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Yes, I suppose they'll do that, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You've written a book called \"Recipe for Life,\" and it's \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0Nothing to do with recipes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0There's not a recipe in here, is there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0No, no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I was looking for a good recipe to go with my salmon, but I didn't find any in there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0The book's coming out next year.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0The recipe book?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0To go with that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I want a signed copy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Well, of course.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I want a signed copy of that recipe book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You have to know a quick story here, Graham.\u00a0 In the early years of FamilyLife Today, Bob and I featured a recipe on air \u2013 just almost in jest \u2013 and the phones rang off the hook.\u00a0 Do you remember it, Bob?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Was this Barbara's French Toast recipe?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0No, no, no, it preceded Barbara's French Toast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0What recipe was it?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Remember, it was chocolate gravy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0I do remember that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Chocolate gravy.\u00a0 Does that sound obnoxious or not?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Why am I not surprised?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0But our listeners somehow connected with chocolate gravy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Yeah, or thought they would and called to get the recipe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And wanted to find out about it.\u00a0 Anyway, you've written this book just challenging, really, our view of materialism and things.\u00a0 Now, you said in your book that you were seduced by a suitcase.\u00a0 Explain what you mean by that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0I had a suitcase, which was a green fiber suitcase, and it had a strap around it because the locks were somewhat dubious, and it served me well.\u00a0 It kept moisture out, and that was it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I was invited to go across from New Zealand to Australia to do a TV series.\u00a0 I went, I didn't think it would last for a minute.\u00a0 It was a hit overnight.\u00a0 It replaced Italian soccer at 8:00 on a Wednesday night, and there were more \"Take him off the air, take that fruitcake off the air\" calls than had ever been received in the history of television in Australia.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So the broker\/manager thought, \"If so many people are so violently opposed to him, it's going to get talked about.\u00a0 We'll keep him on and see what happens.\"\u00a0 And it actually outrated all the other four channels in the end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And ultimately was heard by how many people?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Oh, around the world, that got to be the 200 million mark for each episode.\u00a0 But just \u2013 oh, dear \u2013 it makes it the largest single one-person, one-subject television show in the history of the world and still remains that way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you said, \"Oh, dear,\" before you said that because you don't want to appear to be bragging.\u00a0 Is that significant?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Well, I was a different person with a different purpose, and numbers are of no consequence anymore, and all of that doesn't \u2013 well, it means something to an ungarnished person and now a garnished person.\u00a0 The Lord is in my life, and I would love to see Him collect the credit for what He has done \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Get some royalties?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0\u2026 since then, frankly, yes, that would be wonderful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0It was actually a verse of Scripture that cost you that broadcast in the end, really, wasn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Well, yes.\u00a0 You know, I'm not sure whether it was the verse of Scripture or the Word that the Lord gave to us with the very first one, which is to live for Jesus without compromise.\u00a0 And what was happening was, we were asked to compromise at the program.\u00a0 We used to put Scripture verse on the end of the show.\u00a0 This was a later show that we did, and the world objected to that in an amazing way.\u00a0 They said, \"Take that off the air, otherwise we'll take you off the air.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And we said, \"We don't believe we can compromise the thing, which the Lord has asked us,\" you know, that He said that He wanted a credit on our TV show.\u00a0 And, in the end, we gave up all our royalties and all our rights and all our residuals including the name \"Galloping Gourmet,\" and we simply took off, just the two of us, and two pickup trucks, sold everything we had.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0That's kind of a scary proposition to have all of that and three children and think, \"Okay, we'll sign it over and follow the Lord.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0Do you know, it's not.\u00a0 It really wasn't.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0For Treena, it wasn't.\u00a0 I cried.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0Oh, well, that's you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, no, it was him, yes, you're right, Treena, because that was his \u2013 that had been his idol.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0It had been his idol, amen, amen, and amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And his god, and so as you pry the fingers off the idol, that can be painful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But the security issue, didn't it \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0It didn't threaten you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Why not?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0I don't know.\u00a0 I was threatened by a lot of money.\u00a0 I didn't like it.\u00a0 I didn't want everything.\u00a0 I've never been that sort of person, have I?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0No.\u00a0 The least acquisitive person I've ever met.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0And to give it all up in front of Jesus was terribly exciting.\u00a0 You know, I was 40 years old, but that's how I felt.\u00a0 That's what I wanted to do.\u00a0 That's what I felt we were to do.\u00a0 But we got, of course, got distracted off that because there's another old man out there who tries to move us off onto something that we don't want to do and yet we think it's the right thing because it sounds right.\u00a0 That is the most awful thing.\u00a0 There are many things that we come up against, and they sound so right, but they're not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0I'd like to come back to your question because we took a big circuit, and that was the suitcase.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0I went back to Australia.\u00a0 They said, \"Quickly come back, you're a hit.\"\u00a0 \"Oh.\"\u00a0 So I shoved all this stuff in my green fiber suitcase, and we got through to the airport, and a guy comes out with great rings all up his arm and he's a chief customs officer, and said, \"Good day.\u00a0 I'd like to look at your suitcase,\" and I said, \"I don't have anything to declare.\"\u00a0 \"Oh, no, mate, I just want to put my initials on it.\u00a0 I'm a great fan.\u00a0 I watch your show all the time.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And I look at my suitcase, and he puts a chalk mark on it, and I think, \"What a scruffy suitcase,\" instantaneously.\u00a0 And he said, \"You're Rolls Royce is outside for you.\"\u00a0 \"A what?\"\u00a0 \"A Rolls Royce.\"\u00a0 I was going to take a cab, you know?\u00a0 And he takes my suitcase up \u2013 the handle \u2013 \"Shall I put this in the boot, sir?\"\u00a0 And I said, \"Yes.\"\u00a0 I get into the hotel, and the bellhop puts it, \"Shall I put this on your bed, sir?\"\u00a0 As if it should be exterminated, you know?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And, by now, I\u2019m looking at this thing, and it's just awful.\u00a0 This is \u2013 I have a Rolls Royce, and I have the penthouse suite, and I have everything \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0But the suitcase just \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0But the suitcase is \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0\u2026 it's bunged up, it's dirty \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0It's dirty, and there's a belt 'round it, which is its security, and that's my life, and I've now arrived.\u00a0 And I got that thing out of my life as quick as I could, and I got this lovely leather portamanteau with all the beautiful buckles and my initials on it and everything else, and I changed \u2013 I utterly and totally lost it.\u00a0 I was to buy a suitcase.\u00a0 My appearance had to be everything. You see, I suddenly shot up that side of the ladder, but I was still Graham at the bottom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0The shift that came so many years later in life, I mean, after you had acquired and had and enjoyed and loved all of these things, then the shift away from them, when God \u2013 as we've already talked about this week \u2013 when God turned off the lights, and they didn't have their lure anymore, you began to pursue a pattern in your life that you've referred to as \"out-dulgence,\" and I love the turn of that phrase.\u00a0 When did that hit you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Really, it's Treena.\u00a0 Treena had a heart attack, stroke, and we discovered she had diabetes, too, the adult onset, and she had hypertension.\u00a0 Gosh, I mean, you think of all the stress of being twice-nominated as TV producer of the year, I mean, everything about her life had been stressed enormously, and all of this impacted physically now on her life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0We just simply had to find a way to change our life to be able to accommodate this.\u00a0 Right at the word go, as we started to realize that we would eat a lot less and take a change, we just looked at each other and said, \"Wouldn't it be cool if we could take whatever we used to eat that used to harm you and make that as a provision for somebody else, somebody who is desperately in need \u2013 a child somewhere that was dying, you know, and needed help.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And so we began \u2013 and I love to do this, I'm a numbers man, so I counted the calories, counted the fats, reduced these elements and started to put the difference into dollars and cents.\u00a0 And, since then, we've shifted about $30,000 out of our food budget into other people's lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0In 18 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0In 18 years, and Treena has got really better as a result of that.\u00a0 We have wonderful connections with folks, you know, who are doing great stuff.\u00a0 Now it's not Warren Buffett, and it isn't Bill Gates.\u00a0 It's just a couple who have changed harm into healing.\u00a0 Both ourselves \u2013 we've been healed first.\u00a0 We're the first recipients.\u00a0 But then there's a second recipient, and that's somewhere in the world there is an injustice, and God is a God of justice, and God will give each one of us a perception about what needs to be healed, and we can take it out of our life, find healing ourselves, and find healing for somebody else.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0If we give it for three years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Give it for three years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0Oh, yes.\u00a0 You can't give anything for once.\u00a0 It doesn't do you any good, and it doesn't give anybody any good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0It's just kind of a tip at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0It is, it is, it is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you're saying it needs to be a discipline?\u00a0 It needs to be a practice?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0Yes, because the three years will cure you of a habit that you just enjoy, which is not frightfully good for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Give me an example of a habit that you enjoyed that was not frightfully good for you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0Let me think \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Lattes.\u00a0 Now, this is \u2013 how Graham will explain to you when it's explained in the book that everything seems to grow and grow and grow.\u00a0 Everything is an upgrade, even a latte.\u00a0 It started very small, and then it went a little higher and a little higher.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Vente and grande and \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0Grande, grande.\u00a0 And I got into the grande, grandes, right?\u00a0 Three times a week with my friends.\u00a0 I have three very good friends, and we met separately over the week, and I would have my lovely grande, grande.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Now, you know, you're talking to a lot of grande latte listeners today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0I know, but this is me.\u00a0 This is me.\u00a0 It was upsetting my heart.\u00a0 It doesn't upset everybody, the coffee, but it was upsetting mine.\u00a0 I was getting things and \u2013 all sorts of things going on, and we were talking at a META [sp] conference, and we had \u2013 Graham had worked out how much I was spending on lattes, which was $650 a year \u2013 for no good.\u00a0 It wasn't doing me any good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0In fact, I was very interested at the amount that you recommend people start with as they begin to practice outdulgence.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Like 50 cents a day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Fifty cents?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Yeah, 50 cents per day for a family of four adds up to $720 a year, and that, to our way of thinking, is at least two children and a bit through an organization like Compassion International.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0The most important thing, I think, about this book is this, and we lead right up with a dedication on this one.\u00a0 We believe it is so easy to be critical, and there is no end to criticism, and the body of Christ is today challenged as a very critical organization.\u00a0 We need to be contributors to the common good and, for goodness' sake, we could easily get into being critical.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But, instead of that, we've tried to understand what has happened to us, and we've said, \"There is a way out of this.\"\u00a0 It's like the tank at Tiananmen Square, is American marketing, and it's like we, as Christians, and saying, \"Excuse me, we need to have a dialog with you\" \u2013 the driver of that tank.\u00a0 \"We can't take this any longer, this is no good for us.\u00a0 We are a dying people.\u00a0 You are making us uncivilized in our behavior, and we are not critical of this.\u00a0 We are telling you, we are going to take the excess that you have conditioned us to desire, and we're going to turn that around for healing for other people.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0That pastor from Uganda just the other day got me in a corner and said, \"Tell me, brother, why is it that you Christian in America are so indifferent to the crucial needs of your brother and sister in Africa, and give me your answer in one word.\"\u00a0 I was fairly intimidated, and I just blurted out the word, \"upgrade.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0He said, \"Upgrade.\"\u00a0 I thought, what's that?\u00a0 He said, \"Explain.\"\u00a0 And I said everything that surrounds me at the moment, my motor car, my house, my fridge, my \u2013 this \u2013 even the bedside light \u2013 everybody's got an upgrade.\u00a0 And whilst I don't necessarily buy into the upgrades, I do consider the upgrades.\u00a0 Even if I reject them, I am considering them.\u00a0 And, frankly, I am so surrounded by marketing that I haven't got time to think about you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, there we have our problem.\u00a0 Isn't it so that the Scripture says that in the latter days, because of lawlessness the love of many will grow cold, and I'm shocked by the sound of that Scripture.\u00a0 Lord, is this where we are today?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Graham, I want to quote that passage that you just sampled from, and I have at the top of this, I have it called \"Why good people give up.\"\u00a0 2 Timothy, chapter 3 \u2013 \"But realize this \u2013 that in the last days difficult times will come, for men will be lovers of self.\"\u00a0 I'm going to finish this in a second, but if I would have answered the Ugandan pastor who asked you the question \"Why Americans?\"\u00a0 I would not have nearly as good an answer as yours, but I would have said, \"selfishness.\"\u00a0 I think we are lovers of self.\u00a0 I think we think about ourselves, and I think that's really what you're saying here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0To continue on in the passage \u2013 \"For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money\" \u2013 in fact, I've got to stop there.\u00a0 You have a name for money, what do you call it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Folded self.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Folded self?\u00a0 I like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Yes.\u00a0 I give my time, somebody gives me money, my time is just running constantly.\u00a0 I make decisions about that, so it's my folded self.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0\"For men will be lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness although they have denied its power.\"\u00a0 And then Paul warns Timothy, \"and avoid such men as these.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You know, I think we have to first of all evaluate is that me the Scripture is speaking of, and to what degree have I been seduced by the culture and by the suitcase, like you talked about earlier?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You know, Paul also wrote to Timothy earlier and said, \"As for the rich in this present age,\" which, by the way, would include all of us \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0\u2026 yeah \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0\u2026 and anyone listening \u2013 \"Charge them not to be haughty,\" isn't that interesting that the first thing you tell the rich people is \"don't be haughty,\" \"Nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches but on God who richly provides us with everything to enjoy.\u00a0 They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous, and to be ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.\"\u00a0 That's what you've experienced, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0That's what the \"Recipe for Life\" actually is about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Bill Bright, the founder and president of Campus Crusade for Christ, who has gotten his graduation papers and is no longer with us, when he would sign a book or sign a Bible, he would usually sign it around the Great Commission, the Ten Commandments, and the Golden Rule, just about loving others \u2013 loving God and loving others.\u00a0 And he called people to do that repeatedly and then modeled it with his life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And, you know, one of the things that, as I was reading your book, that really encouraged me, you admitted that you became a legalist about this stuff.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And started judging other people, and I just appreciated the freshness of your candor that basically admitted you've got enough challenges in your own life, you don't have time to judge others.\u00a0 You just want to make your own choices.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But you may have ruined somebody's grande latte today just by being on our program.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0I am so sorry.\u00a0 That was just me, you know, that's just me.\u00a0 I mean, I just had a triple bypass about seven months ago.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And that's what's refreshing.\u00a0 That's exactly what you're saying.\u00a0 You're saying that's you, but each of us need to ask \"What about us?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0What do we need to be doing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0We found out earlier on that you introduce a rule you can almost bet on getting a revolution against that.\u00a0 So what's the point?\u00a0 Give people options and let them make the choices.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, I just appreciate you guys \u2013 or you chaps \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Chapesses.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I really am grateful for you, and I'm grateful for this book.\u00a0 It's really caused me to do some thinking, and I hope you'll be back on FamilyLife Today again and maybe introduce our guest to some \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You want a recipe next time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0\u2026 chocolate \u2013 something better than chocolate gravy.\u00a0 Would you do that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Of course, I will.\u00a0 That would be wonderful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0With his book that's coming out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0When the recipe book comes out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0We'll do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0We'll have you back and hopefully you won't turn your RV \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0\u2026 into a convertible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Into a convertible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTreena:\u00a0Again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0It lets the rain in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I must give you C.S. Lewis's definition of interruptions.\u00a0 He said there are no such things as interruptions in life.\u00a0 They are the real life that God brings us day by day.\u00a0 You've just had some real life brought to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGraham:\u00a0Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You guys have done a great job of sharing this week your real life with us, and your \"Recipe for Life\" that we've talked about today, that's the title of the new book that the Kerrs have written \u2013 \"How to Change Habits that Harm into Resources that Heal, \" and I hope a lot of our listeners will get a copy of this book and not just read it but start to do a little tinkering, a little adjusting in their own lives.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, the title of the book is \"Recipe for Life.\"\u00a0 We have it in our FamilyLife Resource Center, and if you'd like to get a copy from us, you can go to our website, FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 In the middle of the home page, you'll see a red button that says \"Go,\" and if you click that button, it will take you right to a page where there is information about this book by Graham and Treena Kerr called \"Recipe for Life.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0There's also a book that our friend, Randy Alcorn, has written that I think is a great companion to what the two of you have written.\u00a0 It's a book called \"The Treasure Principle, Discovering the Secret of Joyful Giving,\" and you'll find information about that book on our website as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0In fact, if you're interested in getting a copy of both of these books, we'll send along at no additional cost the CD audio of our conversation this week with Graham and Treena Kerr.\u00a0 Again, go to the website, FamilyLife.com, click the red button that says \"go,\" in the middle of the screen, and that will take you right to a page where you can get the information about these resources, and someone on our team can make sure they get sent out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Or call us at 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 That's 1-800-358-6329, 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and, again, we'll make sure that these resources get sent out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You know, as we've talked about giving and living outdulgently today, we want to say thanks to a handful of folks who not only listen to FamilyLife Today but who are Legacy Partners.\u00a0 These are the folks who help support this ministry on a monthly basis with a donation of any amount, and throughout the rest of this week on most of these stations, we are going to be talking to listeners about how you can join us and become a Legacy Partner to FamilyLife Today and help join with a few of your neighbors who have already said we want to pitch in and make sure the program stays on this station in our community and is able to be heard in other communities around the country.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So let me invite you to tune in the rest of this week.\u00a0 We will be live on some of these stations, other stations, you'll be hearing pre-recorded programming, but I want to invite you to tune in.\u00a0 We always have a lot of fun as we do these programs over the next couple of days, and I hope you can join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We hope to see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. 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