{"id":301128,"date":"2006-06-05T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2006-06-05T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/defining-manhood\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:42:21","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:42:21","slug":"defining-manhood","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/defining-manhood\/","title":{"rendered":"Defining Manhood"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Robert Lewis talks to fathers about the important task of raising boys.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2006-06-05.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"11.35M","filesize_raw":"11905392","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2835],"tags":[4875,4727,4277,2209],"podcast_series":[7291],"cwp_profile":[3461],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301128","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-raising-boys","tag-boys","tag-dads","tag-fathers","tag-parenting","podcast_series-raising-a-modern-day-knight","cwp_profile-robert-lewis","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301128\/defining-manhood","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301128\/defining-manhood","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"J2Pc7jcZqe\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/defining-manhood\/\">Defining Manhood<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/defining-manhood\/embed\/#?secret=J2Pc7jcZqe\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Defining Manhood&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"J2Pc7jcZqe\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Robert Lewis talks to fathers about the important task of raising boys.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2006-06-05.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0One author has said that, as dads, we shouldn't look at our sons as boys; we should see them as future men.\u00a0 Here is Dennis Rainey along with Robert Lewis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Being a father is worth it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0Yeah, there you go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And being a strategic father is, indeed, a glory.\u00a0 It is a privilege.\u00a0 It is an unspeakable honor to have raised two sons and had an impact on their life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0Yes, \"No greater joy than this,\" John says, \"than to see my children walking in the truth.\"\u00a0 And I think no greater joy for a dad than to see his son standing tall as a man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, June 5th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Today we're going to talk about what it takes to turn boys into men.\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Monday edition.\u00a0 I'll tell you what, it is interesting \u2013 it seems like people are starting to get their heads up and looking around and going, \"You know what?\u00a0 There are some issues with boys that need to be addressed and, really, the person who can most effectively address those issues is a dad.\"\u00a0 I'm thinking of Dr. Dobson's book, \"Bringing up Boys,\" that came out a couple of years ago.\u00a0 \"Newsweek,\" a few months back had an article called \"The Trouble with Boys.\"\u00a0 All of a sudden, people are starting to notice we've got some issues going on here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0That's right, and a number of our listeners have already purchased Robert Lewis's book, \"Raising a Modern Day Knight,\" and they know that if there's ever been a time when dads and, for that matter, moms, need to be equipped to know how to help a young man grow through boyhood to true, authentic manhood, it's today, and Robert Lewis joins us on FamilyLife Today, and, Robert, I want to welcome you back, because you \u2013 he may be the guest who has been on FamilyLife Today the most number of times.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0We were talking about this before and back in the days when we were really hungry and desperate, we used to have Robert on a lot, didn't we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Welcome to the broadcast, Robert.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0That's right, that's when I come in \u2013 when you're hungry and desperate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Robert, for a number of years, was my pastor at Fellowship Bible Church here in Little Rock.\u00a0 He is the founder of Men's Fraternity.\u00a0 He and his wife, Sherrod [sp], have four children, and they are expecting \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0\u2026 our first \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0\u2026 their first grandbaby.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0And we are celebrating.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I had a chance of seeing your son-in-law when I got my eyes checked the other day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0Oh, is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I went over, and he had just found out and gave him high fives, and I thought, \"Good for Robert and Sherrod.\"\u00a0 They need to be grandparents because there is a dusting of gray on top there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0That's right, I'm starting to look like one, aren't I?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0We are, we are, no doubt about it.\u00a0 Robert, this has been a theme of your life, this subject of building into men, helping boys become men, and today this subject is more relevant than ever before, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0It really is, Dennis. This whole issue of raising boys, I am glad has finally reached the national spotlight.\u00a0 Bob just mentioned a moment ago the \"Newsweek\" article entitled \"The Boy Crisis,\" in which it addressed the question of why are boys falling behind in every area of education?\u00a0 But then there's this unbelievable statement made by the Secretary of Education who made the statement that a boy without a man is like an explorer without a roadmap.\u00a0 And what we have today is a whole generation of young boys growing up that have no vision, and without a vision boys get out of control.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0I think the article said 40 percent of young men are growing up without a father figure or without a dad in the home, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0That's right, without a dad in the home, and then there's another 40 percent of boys who tell researchers they feel no emotional closeness to their dads.\u00a0 So what we're doing is effectively launching 80 percent of our young boys into society visionless.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I've never forgotten a message that Robert gave \u2013 it has to be 20 years ago, and it was a message about men and women and how they are created by God differently, and, Robert, remember the sign you held up in front of the church.\u00a0 This was back before we even had a facility to meet in.\u00a0 We were in a theater.\u00a0 Remember the sign you held up?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0That's right, \"I love women.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0The sign said, \"I love women.\" \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You were not simply declaring your heterosexuality at that point, you were about to say some hard things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0Well, back then, 20 years ago, to speak about the issue of men created a natural stirring in women who were feeling at that time that they needed to flex their own independence and muscle, and it invaded the church and rightfully so.\u00a0 There were a lot of things women needed to expand into with new rights and new freedoms and hopefully, for our society, new sensitivities.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Interestingly enough, though, here we are in the 21st century, and the pendulum has swung the opposite direction, though I still think there is a very, very strong feminine consciousness that pervades our society.\u00a0 Underneath it, unaddressed, is a masculine crisis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Define that for us. What is at the heart of the masculine crisis?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0It is lack of definition of what masculinity is all about and the inability in that vacuum to then translate to boys and men vision that focuses their undefined energies in a positive direction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0So you're saying dads aren't clear about what they're supposed to be as men and, as a consequence, they can't cast a vision for their sons, and the sons are growing up with all of this masculine energy, and instead of being channeled productively toward a godly end, it's being diffused in a myriad of different directions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0And here is why \u2013 years ago a sociologist made this statement, which I thought was profound.\u00a0 He said men are filled with undefined energies only.\u00a0 Women have a natural focus point in child-rearing that starts them on their way and actually anchors them in some ways.\u00a0 But men are filled with undefined energies only and unless they get focus, those energies are expended in a myriad of ways, most of which are not positive.\u00a0 And I think in light of where we are today in America, without a clear concept of what masculinity is, and the inability of dads to know it themselves and deposit it into their sons' hearts, you get a whole generation that's going every direction except the right direction.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If they get the new freedoms, if a woman gets the new freedoms of the 21st century without a man, they'll still be unhappy.\u00a0 What we need is those new freedoms coupled with true masculinity, but in order to do that, someone has to step up and step into that vacuum and define what masculinity is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0When you wrote the book, \"Raising a Modern Day Knight,\" you provided a definition for masculinity, and then you encouraged men to mark along the path some ways to initiate their boys into masculinity.\u00a0 And I think some people focused on the ceremonies but may have missed the bigger context, which was that those ceremonies need to be a tool in your toolkit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0Anchored to a vision.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But the assignment is bigger than just accomplish the ceremonies and you will have done the job.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0That's exactly right.\u00a0 The ceremonies are a vehicle, they're a means to an end, and at the core of the end is a clear definition of what masculinity is all about in a concise way.\u00a0 But then has a further fleshing out of what those things mean in the everyday of life, which you can keep coming back to a core statement like, \"accept responsibility,\" which is part of the definition I have of masculinity that I see in the Scriptures, but you can tell your son a real man accepts responsibility when he's dating a young girl.\u00a0 You can use it about his academics as I just did with my college-age son; you can use it in the course of just things around the house.\u00a0 But it keeps timing back to a vision, and that's what's missing in masculinity today \u2013 a vision that's compelling that inspires young men and old men alike to define their energies or focus their energies in that positive direction.\u00a0 And when that happens, the good news is that great things happen, and I've been able to experience those good things with men all across America and in other parts of the world.\u00a0 But it's most exciting when it begins with a dad depositing to his son, because that is what I call \"proactive parenting,\" and it builds in help that lasts for a lifetime.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0A lot of the work that, unfortunately, I've experienced even through Men's Fraternity is a ministry that uncovers new truths about masculinity to the men and then men feel, at first, regret, because they're 40 years old with a 40-year-old track record of woundedness, wrong direction, mistakes, and then they get this new vision, and it begins to redirect their path.\u00a0 But then they'll always say to me these words \u2013 \"I wish I'd heard this 20 years ago.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And the place that they were really longing for is to have heard it from a dad, their dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Robert, as I think about you, our friendship goes way back to the University of Arkansas.\u00a0 For some of our listeners who have never been there, that's the \"Harvard of the Ozarks.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0And only a select few attend there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0That's exactly right \u2013 an elite few.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0The few and the proud.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0That's right, that's right.\u00a0 But as I think about you, and as I've watched this vision for manhood emerge through your life and ministry, you're a pioneer, and this goes back to when you were a young man, and you talk about in your book a couple of pictures that were snapshots that really captured your relationship with your father.\u00a0 Do you know what pictures I'm talking about?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0Two pictures that still reside in my home \u2013 one is the picture of a moment in time when Sherrod and I were married, and at the reception after our marriage, there was a picture of all the family, with Sherrod and I in the center, as you normally take at wedding ceremony, and there we are with everybody in the family except my dad.\u00a0 And my dad's missing, and he was AWOL for my wedding because my dad suffered under chronic alcoholism and the pressure of a wedding was too much for him.\u00a0 And so rather than attend, he simply drank himself into a stupor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And so that just left a huge wound for me.\u00a0 It was a series of wounds where my dad was AWOL from our lives, the three boys' lives, with a retreat into someplace that he needed to go because he couldn't deal with issues within his own life.\u00a0 And I don't know what all those were even to this day, but it left the three of us emotionally disconnected from a dad.\u00a0 And that was one of those moments that just, I think, summarized my experience.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0In other words, you didn't have a father painting a vision; the canvas was blank.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0The canvas was blank.\u00a0 It even had some dark streaks on it because, in some ways, at least in my case, I had to be kind of the caretaker of my dad.\u00a0 I became a father to a father, which is very unnatural and really unhealthy.\u00a0 I think the other picture you referred to, the one I have still on my dresser, is a small picture in a little, small tin frame, of the three boys meeting for the last time with my mom and dad, and we're out in the back yard, and my mom wanted to take a picture.\u00a0 And it shows the three boys, my oldest brother was about to go into the Vietnam Conflict, and my younger brother was about to go off to Colorado and find himself, and I was in seminary, so we're standing there, and this beautiful crystal clear sky and the sunlight is right on us, and it's kind of art imitating life.\u00a0 We're in the full bloom of our young manhood, and my dad's standing behind us, but the way the picture captured my dad is a shadow was over my dad, because he was standing under a branch of a tree, and it blotted him out from the picture.\u00a0 So he's there, but you can't see him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And that pictured how we were raised \u2013 with a dad who was there, but we just couldn't see him, and he left a huge void in all three of our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0But instead of being a victim, as a young man growing up, you decided to turn that loss, that wound, into what our mutual friend, Dan Jarrell, calls a \"holy scar.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0Right, and I think Dan would admit that a holy scar is by the grace of God.\u00a0 It's not because of some brilliance on my part, even though I did go to Harvard of the Ozarks, it wasn't any brilliance on my part.\u00a0 Really, really, it was by the grace of God that I found Christ my freshman year in college, and I think the process was a painful, at times, process of trying to rediscover who I was in Christ first, as a Christian, and then in a sudden turn that was unexpected for me, and there were things that brought this about that we probably don't have time to talk about, but then in a journey to discover what it meant to be a man.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0See, I think that for a lot of men, after being a pastor for 30 years, I think, for a lot of men, they wouldn't consciously say this, but they think of Christian \u2013 just Christian \u2013 if they don't have the \"man\" part, they think of Christian as a little bit weak or even a little bit feminine.\u00a0 And suddenly, when you begin to paint a portrait of Christian with a masculine veneer and color, it's like it comes alive for them, and it becomes adventuresome, daring, courageous, bold, and they get excited.\u00a0 That's where I've seen more change in a man in Men's Fraternity in one year than I've seen with a lot of guys that just sat in church under me for 20 years.\u00a0 And I tried to figure out why.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAfter I started seeing all this stuff happening with Men's Fraternity, I said, \"Why did this guy come alive when he walked into Men's Fraternity?\"\u00a0 I think it's because we presented Christianity in this more narrow scope in pure masculine tones, and it made the rest of Christianity make sense.\u00a0 It was like the key that unlocked the Christian door.\u00a0 They had the door, and you could talk about how pretty the door is and how exciting what was on the inside was, but they didn't have the key.\u00a0 And once they got the key and saw it was \u2013 that Christianity was thoroughly masculine and being romantic with your wife was a masculine experience, and going out and making a difference in the community was a daring, masculine, and Christian experience, it's like all of a sudden I started seeing guys get engaged at levels I'd never experienced \u2013 when they just simply came to church on Sunday.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You referred to a part of your definition of manhood by talking about accepting responsibility, and I think it would be good if we can \u2013 we really can't unpack it today, but if we can just get the overview \u2013 what is it that you'd point men to and say, \"This is the picture.\u00a0 This is what it's supposed to look like.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0Yeah, we labor for a number of weeks in Men's Fraternity just unpacking Genesis in the Gospels comparing what I call \"the two supreme men\" \u2013 the first Adam and second Adam.\u00a0 The Adam of Genesis and the Adam of the Gospels, Jesus Christ.\u00a0 And we just compare them.\u00a0 We look at these two supreme figures of masculinity and just look at what made them who they were and the pluses and minuses.\u00a0 But when we boil them down together, we come up with a succinct definition that I think summarizes that comparison, and we bring out a definition that says this \u2013 that a real man is one who rejects passivity \u2013 speaking of the passivity of the first Adam \u2013 accepts responsibility, the daring courage of the second Adam; leads courageously rather than capitulate to feelings or temptation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, to your listeners, you'll have them saying, \"Well, what does it mean to accept responsibility?\"\u00a0 If you're in Men's Fraternity, you know what all that means, and we unpack it, or what is expecting the greater reward, we unpack that.\u00a0 But when guys understand it, and we boil it down to that succinct statement, that becomes a statement, a brand, that men can go back to with each other at any time of the day, and when you just mention, \"You need to accept responsibility,\" they know what that means.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Or in the case, like, several years ago when my younger son was having trouble with a young lady, he looked over at me, and he smiled, and he said, \"Dad, it's time I reject passivity.\"\u00a0 And I knew exactly \u2013 he was stepping up to manhood, and I just compliment \u2013 now, there was a whole level of meaning underneath that, but the point is that when guys get it, and it's a vision that stirs in them action and courage and a sense of dignity and boldness and nobility \u2013 that's when I see men come alive.\u00a0 It's like I found the key that makes it all work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0I've used your definition, and the other day I came home, and it was a Tuesday, and the trash can was up at the curb on a Tuesday, and our trash gets picked up on Monday.\u00a0 So it had been a 24-hour cycle that the trash can was up at the curb. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0A little passivity, you think is occurring here?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Well, I said to my son, David, I said, \"David, the trash can up at the curb.\u00a0 You haven't brought it down.\"\u00a0 And he said, \"Well, nobody told me I was supposed to.\"\u00a0 And I said, \"Well, accepting responsibility means doing it.\u00a0 It doesn't mean waiting until you're told.\u00a0 It means noticing it and doing it.\u00a0 You look around and say, 'How can I help?'\"\u00a0 And he kept trying to say, \"Well, I'm off the hook,\" and I said, \"Maybe in a technical sense you're off the hook.\"\u00a0 You know, there was no punishment because he hadn't brought it down, because I hadn't said to him, \"Your job is to bring it down.\"\u00a0 But I just said, \"A man looks around and says, 'That needs to be done, and I can go do it.'\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0And I'll initiate and do it.\u00a0 And, Bob, you just gave a perfect illustration of what I'm talking about.\u00a0 The definition is home base, and then what you do is you unpack that definition over a lifetime with illustration and application for a lifetime, and it broadens out until it sinks deep into a son's life until he begins to resonate with it at such a level that he begins to initiate out of his own life that energy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Not only are you helping guys get a picture for this in Men's Fraternity, but you've done it in the book, \"Raising a Modern Day Knight,\" and not long ago the two of you were a part of a video series that takes the principles from your book, \"Raising a Modern Day Knight,\" and puts it in a training video that guys can now use in a small group, in a church setting, to really capture this whole vision and share it with one another, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRobert:\u00a0That's right.\u00a0 One of the concerns I've had for a number of years leading up to Dennis and I putting together this video package was that in Men's Fraternity you would have dads come up to me all the time and say, \"Can I bring my son?\"\u00a0 But the material really doesn't lend itself to a young son.\u00a0 And yet the reality is that where we need to be scoring points are not with dads looking back saying, \"What can I undo?\"\u00a0 But with young dads learning what to do.\u00a0 That's the key.\u00a0 That's what this is all about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0It is, and you referred to that definition of manhood being home base.\u00a0 Well, the best place to teach that definition is at the home base and to equip fathers to do that.\u00a0 And, you know, I've watched them in Men's Fraternity, Robert, and I've watched our listeners, who have picked up your book and now have a possibility of going through a video series with other fathers \u2013 I've watched men with just a little direction.\u00a0 Guys can do this.\u00a0 You don't have to be seminary trained.\u00a0 You know, God has put it within a man's heart to know what to do if he's just pointed in the right direction with a few tools, and that's what's in this series and is why I'm thrilled we're offering here on FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0We, of course, have copies of the book, \"Raising a Modern Day Knight,\" in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 We also have the video curriculum we've been talking about, \"Raising a Modern Day Knight\" \u2013 a six-week adventure for dads to go through together where you and Robert mentor them in this process of raising up their sons to embrace authentic manhood.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You can get more information about these resources by going to our website, FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 In the middle of the screen, you'll see a red button that says \"Go,\" and if you click on that button, it will take you right to a page where you can find out more about the video curriculum, about the book, \"Raising a Modern Day Knight.\"\u00a0 There is information there about your book, \"Rocking the Roles,\" which helps husbands and wives both understand the unique roles that we are to play in a marriage relationship.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And, in fact, any of our listeners who are interested in getting the book, \"Raising a Modern Day Knight,\" together with the book, \"Rocking the Roles,\" we can send them the CD audio of our conversation this week on this subject.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, our website is FamilyLife.com and probably the best thing for you to do is to go to the site, click that red button that says, \"Go,\" and get more information about how you can order these resources.\u00a0 You can order online, if you'd like, or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 That's 1-800-358-6329, and ask about the video curriculum or about the books that are available, and someone on our team can get these resources out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You know, several weeks ago we had, as a guest on FamilyLife Today, Elyse Fitzpatrick, talking about our tendency to look at food the wrong way.\u00a0 In fact, she said that we content to make eating an idolatrous activity.\u00a0 Elyse has written a book called \"Love to Eat, Hate to Eat,\" and the interview that we did with her really struck a chord with many of our listeners, and we decided that this month we wanted to make a copy of that interview available to any of our FamilyLife Today listeners who would contact us during June and make a donation of any amount to help with the funding of this ministry.\u00a0 We are listener-supported, and the costs associated with this radio program and the other aspects of our ministry are largely underwritten by donations from folks just like you who call or write to us and make a tax-deductible contribution for the support of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If you will do that during the month of June, you can request a copy of the audio CD that features our conversation with Elyse Fitzpatrick on eating, on understanding our motivation for eating; how to take a biblical approach to food and avoid the extremes of eating disorders or over-eating, gluttony, those kinds of things.\u00a0 Contact us to make a donation either by going online at FamilyLife.com or call 1-800-FLTODAY and make a donation over the phone.\u00a0 When you do, you can request the audio CD.\u00a0 Either mention it to the person you talk to when you call or, if you're filling out the form online, when you get to the keycode box just type in the word \"eat,\" and we'll know that you'd like the CD with Elyse Fitzpatrick, and we'll be happy to send that out to you as our way of saying thank you for your ongoing support of the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 We really appreciate your partnership, and we're happy to be able to provide practical, biblical, helpful resources like this audio CD to help strengthen your relationship with Christ and your relationships with one another in your family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Tomorrow Dr. Robert Lewis is going to be back with us, and we're going to being to unpack the definition of manhood that you describe in the book, \"Raising a Modern Day Knight,\" and I hope our listeners can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would\u00a0\u00a0 you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/site\/c.dnJHKLNnFoG\/b.3782043\/k.384D\/Support_Us.htm\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/www.FamilyLife.com\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 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