{"id":301125,"date":"2006-05-31T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2006-05-31T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/gentleness-and-communication\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:42:21","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:42:21","slug":"gentleness-and-communication","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gentleness-and-communication\/","title":{"rendered":"Gentleness and Communication"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Ron Jenson focuses on the characteristics of gentleness and communication.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2006-05-31.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"11.35M","filesize_raw":"11903728","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848],"tags":[4887,4699],"podcast_series":[7455],"cwp_profile":[3419],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301125","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","tag-good-leaders","tag-leadership","podcast_series-taking-the-lead","cwp_profile-ron-jenson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301125\/gentleness-and-communication","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301125\/gentleness-and-communication","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"b37uXyDC9t\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gentleness-and-communication\/\">Gentleness and Communication<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/gentleness-and-communication\/embed\/#?secret=b37uXyDC9t\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Gentleness and Communication&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"b37uXyDC9t\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2006-05-31.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2006-05-31.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0And she started asking me questions and, of course, I started to answer the questions, I mean, I'm America's life coach, right?\u00a0 I fix people, and I wanted to fix her, of course, and she didn't want to be fixed.\u00a0 She leaned forward and said, \"Honey, I don't want you to answer my questions,\" and every part of my being was screaming out, \"Why in the world are you asking these questions if you don't want me to answer them?\"\u00a0 But I listened for an hour and a half, and when we got done, she reached across the table, grabbed my cheeks in her hands, planted a romantic kiss on my lips and said, \"Honey, honey, honey, thank you.\u00a0 This is the best conversation we've ever had.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, May 31st.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Sometimes being a man who takes the lead means just sitting back, being quiet, and listening.\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition.\u00a0 We are talking this week about men being leaders and stepping up to the responsibilities of leadership.\u00a0 Not the privileges but the responsibilities of leadership, and that's something that we need to be coaching men to do when they are young men, when they're still teenagers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You know, you've heard me share, over the years, how I've interviewed young men who have wanted to date my daughters, and I suppose, over the years, I've probably interviewed somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 young men who have wanted to take my daughters out for a date \u2013 or \u2013 some young men who have wanted to marry one of my daughters, and I've thought about this a bunch, since I've done this a number of times \u2013 the second most important component that I am looking for as I interview a young man who I'm considering giving my daughter away in marriage to is that of leadership.\u00a0 Does he possess the qualities of leadership that make him out to be a man of God who can truly love and lead my daughter?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, the first and most important quality I look for is whether or not he is walking with Jesus Christ, is personally submitted to Him, and whether he is in pursuit of Jesus Christ as a disciple, as a follower.\u00a0 And I have a friend with me today who is going to equip some men in not only how you can interview young men who want to date your daughters but help you clarify what it means to lead and how you can begin to develop 10 core qualities that Paul spoke about in 1 Thessalonians, chapter 2, that really summarize what it means to be a godly leader.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Ron Jenson has written a book called \"Taking the Lead,\" and he joins us on FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 He and his wife Mary are great friends of Barbara's and mine, and we're just thrilled to have you on the broadcast today, Ron, welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Great to be here, Dennis, thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Ron and Mary speak at our Weekend to Remember conferences; have done so for a number of years.\u00a0 We've, as I mentioned earlier, we've vacationed together.\u00a0 He's a \u2013 well, Ron is a man of the influence.\u00a0 He likes to influence people, he likes to love on people and make an impact for Jesus Christ, and I'm really pleased to say that Ron and Mary are among our closest friends, and it really didn't take him twisting our arm to be able to have him on FamilyLife Today and talk about this new book he's written for men on leadership.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Ron, I want to start here at the outset with just a quick summary of the 10 qualities that we mentioned earlier about what it means to be a godly leader.\u00a0 Because 1Thessalonians, chapter 2, does outline, in a very simple way but in a very profound way, qualities that every man needs to embrace.\u00a0 Share them with our listeners, please.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Well, the 10 are and, again, they're important because I think this is the best grid in all literature of what leadership is, and I think one reason guys don't lead is that they don't understand what a good, godly, balanced leader is.\u00a0 And in this text, we find him \u2013 team orientation, we're part of a team, we need others, and others need us.\u00a0 A disciplined life \u2013 we discipline ourselves for godliness; gentle spirit; fond affection, there is deep emotion and affection; effective communication; personal openness \u2013 that's really dealing with transparency; servant leadership; hard work \u2013 part of leadership is just working hard; and then being a godly model \u2013 it's not being perfect, but it's being progressing into the likeness of Christ; and then caring confrontation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yes, and I want to go back and talk about the third quality you spoke about there \u2013 gentleness.\u00a0 Now, you speak about what gentleness isn't in your book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Yes, and I do that because I think when guys think of gentleness, often they think of something very wimpy, and it's not that.\u00a0 Again, this is Paul, Timothy, and Sylvanus writing this book to the Thessalonians.\u00a0 They were rough, tough guys, though they are very different personalities \u2013 meaning all of us need to lead.\u00a0 We can't cop out on personality.\u00a0 But they were living under incredible hardship and difficulty, and they weren't ineffective, they weren't passive, they weren't living a false humility, they weren't weak.\u00a0 Gentleness is none of those things.\u00a0 Instead, the best metaphor for gentleness is really a wild stallion whose will has been broken, whose spirit is very much alive and brought under control of the master.\u00a0 And what God wants for us is to be gentle in the sense that our spirits are alive, dynamic, but it's under the control of the Spirit of God.\u00a0 That's really what gentleness is \u2013 strength under control.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yes, it's not weakness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It's not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0It's true strength of character.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It really is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Ron, as you were writing about this subject of gentleness in your book, I thought back to the days of science fairs with my kids, and a couple of my daughters \u2013 well, I don't know what it was about sometimes our children, but they would wait until the last possible minute to do the science fair project.\u00a0 Now, a science fair project can be put together the night before.\u00a0 But I want to underline the word \"night\" \u2013 the entire \"night\" before.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so when one of our daughters, and I don't remember which one it was, so this preserves their reputation at this point.\u00a0\u00a0 When one of our daughters started work on this after they talked on the phone and after they had lollygagged around for a number of hours, about 9:00 at night I was ticked off.\u00a0 I did not embody this concept of gentleness like you're talking about and, frankly, I was angry at my daughter, and I was also angry at my wife, who rescued our daughter and stayed up until, like, 3 a.m. working on this magnificent science project, okay?\u00a0 You know, I'm talking about it has panels that explain the experiment and has \u2013 well, we got a blue ribbon for it, I think, as I recall.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, the Lord convicted me that I was wrong in getting angry.\u00a0 I went to bed.\u00a0 I just sulked and went to bed in my anger, and I had a chance, on another child, to bring some redemption to the process and, sure enough, this one had the same disease the other child did \u2013 waited until the last minute and this time, instead of grousing and griping, I decided I was going to be this kind of man here, and I was going to be a gentle man with my wife and my daughter, as I recall, one of my other daughters, and I was going to participate in this science fair, and I was going to be gentle and not be harsh and not be angry and not sulk and not just go to bed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And, you know, my kids have never, ever mentioned this.\u00a0 I don't know that any of them maybe even remember it, but I do.\u00a0 And I think, for a man, if we do make mistakes in terms of being gentle with our wives or our children or in the workplace in who we relate to, the issue is not that we failed, although it's never good to fail, but the issue is that we confess and ask forgiveness when we've made a mistake, and then when we have the opportunity to replace harshness or a critical spirit or an angry spirit with a gentle spirit, we do so, don't you agree?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Oh, I do, and I have a very recent illustration of this with my wife.\u00a0 We were on a vacation with our two adult kids, and my daughter was lying down on the couch, and my wife was sitting by the kitchen, and I said, \"Honey, do we have any bottled water in here,\" and she goes, \"The water that's in the refrigerator,\" in this condo belongs to our friends whose condo we were staying at, and I simply said this like this \u2013 I said, \"That's not the question I asked.\u00a0 Do we have any bottled water?\"\u00a0 And that's about how I said it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Probably more impatient than you just said it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Probably.\u00a0 I just \u2013 quick.\u00a0 You know, I get sarcastic or quick or short.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yeah, I've seen you do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Uh-huh, yeah, and you've trained in most of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0This is one of the problems of having friends \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It's good to have friends, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And to have the friend on the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0I remember, we vacationed together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0We have, we have.\u00a0 We've both seen one another get \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0There you go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yeah, anyway, keep going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Well, anyway, so after I said that, Mary didn't say anything, but my daughter, Molly, goes, \"Ewwwww.\"\u00a0 I go, \"What's the ewwww about?\"\u00a0 She goes, \"That was harsh.\"\u00a0 I said, \"Harsh?\u00a0 What?\"\u00a0 She goes, \"The way you said that.\"\u00a0 I said, \"What do you mean?\"\u00a0 She said, \"Lookit, if you were my husband, I wouldn't want you to talk to me like that.\"\u00a0 I said, \"Oh, man, what do you mean?\"\u00a0 And then \u2013 so she goes, \"Well, that was just rude.\u00a0 It was not what you said, it's how you said it.\u00a0 Why couldn't you just be more gentle?\"\u00a0 And so I had to go in and prayer a little bit and work through that one, that humiliation, and come out.\u00a0 And then I was telling Molly how proud I was of her for bringing that up \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0And for rebuking me \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0And a little bit later Mary said, \"You know, that was good, honey, that you did that, but you actually could have apologized to me for\" \u2013 so I got it twice.\u00a0 And, you know, so much of this harshness is nonverbal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0It really is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It's tone of voice \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You don't have to raise your voice and have your blood vessels in your neck be popping out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0No, and I realized what I had done there, and I've tried to be more aware of it ever since, but I can shut my wife's spirit down very quickly, and the metaphor, again, is we were gentle among you like a nursing mother tenderly cares for her children.\"\u00a0 So think of a nursing mother tenderly caring for her child.\u00a0 She's stroking the cheek of that little child, she's patient, she's available.\u00a0 In the middle of the night when Mary was feeding our kids, and they would scream, I'd roll over and say, \"Honey, I'm not equipped,\" and she would jump out and go take care of the kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But that metaphor of a nursing mother is a great one for us to get in our minds when we think of what godly gentleness is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Longsuffering \u2013 you think of how a mom cares in that situation.\u00a0 Yes, and there's also a side, Ron, of gentleness that goes beyond that nursing mother that protects.\u00a0 Gentleness protects from evil, can protect your spouse from a child.\u00a0 Gentleness really takes care of the other person that no harm befalls them.\u00a0 And I like the illustration that you give out of the Scriptures at that point \u2013 what nursing mother wouldn't protect that child from anything coming after that little infant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Well, the third quality that you speak of is gentleness.\u00a0 There's a fourth one here called \"fond affection.\"\u00a0 What do you mean by that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Well, Paul, Timothy, and Sylvanus says \"We loved you so much that we were well pleased to impart to you not only the Gospel but our very own lives because you became very dear to us.\"\u00a0 So we loved you so much, one translator says, \"We affectionately desired you because you became very dear to us.\"\u00a0 I think we've lost the art, as men, partly because of the media and the culture, to show affection, and the two things that kill affection \u2013 one thing that kills affection and one that makes it happen \u2013 what kills it, often, is bitterness.\u00a0 You know, so often in our Promise Keepers events and other events we've done at FamilyLife, we'll ask guys what they got from their dads growing up, or if they got the love or the attention they didn't get, and we've just found a lot of bitterness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So on the one hand, we just need to forgive and forget and let go \u2013 that's one thing.\u00a0 On the other hand, we need to demonstrate affection, and that's a lost art.\u00a0 I was amazed to be at the recent wedding that we were at \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You're speaking now of my daughter, Rebecca.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Your daughter, Rebecca \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And the young man I gave her to \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Yes, Jake.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Jake.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0And to have Jake's dad, who is a mutual friend of ours, who we think so highly of, he would greet us.\u00a0 He'd come up and give all the guys a kiss.\u00a0 In fact, I watched their family.\u00a0 They all gave one another a kiss \u2013 on the lips!\u00a0 I mean, that was kind of the modus operandi.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Bill did not kiss me on the lips, however.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Well, but I remember years ago, when I learned this lesson.\u00a0 It was a homecoming event.\u00a0 My son had been nominated to the homecoming court at the high school he was at, and during halftime the parents would walk down the center line, the 50-yard line, from the visitors, the home team.\u00a0 Many hundreds, probably thousands, of people there, and my son, Matt, was nominated the Homecoming King, which was a great honor, and as we would go around the corner to walk down the 50-yard line, he reached out and grabbed his mom's hand, and then he reached out to grab my hand, like he wanted to hold my hand, and I looked at all these people at the home side, and I thought, \"Oh, man, he doesn't want to hold my hand.\u00a0 They're going to think he's goofy.\"\u00a0 And I thought, \"This will be embarrassing,\" so I stuck my hand in my pocket and just touched his elbow, and we walked down there and had a great night.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0The next day Mary came up to me, and she said, \"Honey, do you know how much you hurt your son last night?\"\u00a0 And I said, \"What do you mean?\"\u00a0 She said, \"Well, when he reached out to hold your hand, he really wanted to hold your hand.\u00a0 He wanted to walk hand-in-hand down the 50-yard line with you.\"\u00a0 I said, \"Why?\"\u00a0 She said, \"Well, he's had an impact on a lot of these kids, led a lot of them to Christ, well-known, they all know how much he loves his parents and how close he is to his parents, especially to you.\u00a0 And he wanted to demonstrate that nonverbally, and you stole that from him.\u00a0 He'll never have that opportunity again.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You know, and so I melted into the ground, and I went an apologized, and that was very gracious, but I realized that I had been so conformed of the world's system when it comes to affection, I was trying to play this Rambo mindset, you know, of tough, and whenever Matt and I see one another now, to this day, we hug, we'll kiss one another on the cheek.\u00a0 It will be fond affection and, you know, we forget how cultural in the Western world, especially our concept of affection is, and our young men and young women appropriately our kids are looking for the right kind of affection.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I can go way the wrong direction, of course, but they're desperate for that, and we just need to demonstrate it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I think \u2013 you know, it's just a great feeling for two men to hug one another, and yet the culture has really robbed us because of how affection between men has been twisted, the culture has really robbed us of a great opportunity for us to express a fond affection that you're talking about.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0There is also an affection that men need to express to their wives that they're not good at as well \u2013 this is the language of romance to our wives.\u00a0 They want a fond affection that doesn't demand a sexual response.\u00a0 They are looking for a touch of the hand, a snuggle, something sweet in their ears \u2013 \"I love you, sweetheart, I'd marry you all over again\" \u2013 fond affection can take a number of different faces, but it is a part of strong, competent, godly, male leadership, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It is.\u00a0 Yesterday we were at a hotel, and Mary and I went out and exercised in the morning and afterwards we went swimming a little bit, and I was just holding Mary in the pool, and she just sat there and said, \"I love this, I love this.\"\u00a0 I said, \"What?\"\u00a0 She goes, \"Just being here, just this quality time, this just communicating, really just my prattling on.\"\u00a0 She said, \"I just love this.\"\u00a0 And, of course, being emotionally challenged like I am, I didn't have the full appreciation of that, but I do know how meaningful that kind of thing is to my wife and how meaningful it is to me, even though I might not connect at the same emotional level she does with that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I was just thinking about that, Ron.\u00a0 There's probably not a man listening right now who is going, \"I wouldn't think of just having my wife hold me.\"\u00a0 And, for that reason, because it's not what communicates fond affection to us as men, we don't think about holding our wives because of that.\u00a0 And our wives just need to be hugged and held many times \u2013 just for 30 to 45 seconds after we get home from work, after they've been challenged throughout the day with discipline of the little ones with running a household or perhaps coming back from work herself and preparing the meal and just the hassles of running a household this day, our wives just need us to gather them up in our arms and just say, \"You know what?\u00a0 I love you.\u00a0 You're the best.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0That's exactly right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0This next quality of leadership \u2013 effective communication.\u00a0 I think if there is one on the list that challenges men even more than fond affection it's the area of communication.\u00a0 We, as men, don't do a great job on this, do we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0We don't, and we're not, by the way, not talking here about being great orators.\u00a0 There's a lot of research out that indicates great leaders are often not great orators, and I think sometimes men get afraid of communication because they think of, you know, standing before a big group.\u00a0 It just means I communicate in such a way that I connect, and as we often teach in our FamilyLife events, it's, on the one hand, first seeking to understand, and then it's seeking to be understood, and I think the hardest thing for us is seeking to understand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Mary came back from an event some years ago, and after the event she said, \"Honey, could we go out?\u00a0 I've got a lot of questions.\"\u00a0 I said, \"Sure,\" and we went out for coffee, and she started asking me questions, and, of course, I started to answer the questions, I mean, I'm America's life coach, right?\u00a0 I fix people, and I wanted to fix her, of course, and she didn't want to be fixed.\u00a0 She leaned forward and patted my hand, which I knew meant \"Shut up,\" and said, \"Honey, I don't want you to answer my questions,\" and every part of my being was screaming out, \"Why in the world are you asking these questions if you don't want me to answer them?\"\u00a0 But I majored in communications, and I knew she wanted to be listened to, so I listened for an hour and a half, and did what we teach a lot and that is ask clarifying questions like \"What do you mean by this?\"\u00a0 Or \"Is this like when this happened to me?\"\u00a0 And when we got done, I had made no declarative statements.\u00a0 We were an hour and a half into this \"discussion.\"\u00a0 I had made no statements.\u00a0 I just asked questions, and I had to keep \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Way to go, Ron.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0I had to bite my lip \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I am so impressed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It was killing me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0This is great.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It was painful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0It was.\u00a0 It's tough for us, as a man, to not offer a solution, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It was.\u00a0 And when we got done, she reached across the table, grabbed my cheeks in her hands, planted a romantic kiss on my lips and said, \"Honey, honey, honey, thank you.\u00a0 This is the best conversation we've ever had.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I thought, \"Wait a second.\u00a0 I didn't say anything.\"\u00a0 And I thought, \"Oh, I'm getting the point.\"\u00a0 She wanted to be heard, and a big part of communication, we need to know, as guys, this is so counter-intuitive but is to listen.\u00a0 You know, people want to be understood.\u00a0 They want to be cared for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You quote Hamlet in your book, and I'm impressed, Ron, that you quoted Hamlet, by the way, which goes, \"Give every man thine ear but few thy voice.\"\u00a0 That could be rephrased \u2013 give every woman your listening ear but hold your solutions and hold your tongue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0And that would be true for kids, too, by the way \u2013 or in the workplace. We need to listen more.\u00a0 We don't do it effectively.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0We don't.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And, you know, I think, again, we don't think of leaders as listeners.\u00a0 You know, when you think of the quintessential leader, you don't think of somebody who is spending a lot of time listening.\u00a0 You think of somebody whose is giving instruction; who is saying, \"Come on, let's go.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But if we're going to be effective as leaders, we've got to be listeners, we've got to be attentive to the needs of those around us.\u00a0 They've got to know that we care about them, and part of the way that we demonstrate that is by listening.\u00a0 And that's whether we're leading in the marketplace or in the home or in the church, and I think, as you do, Ron, that there are guys who need to step up and embrace the God-designed assignment to be leaders, to be men who take the lead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You've written a book on that subject, there's a study guide associated with that book, there is also a CD and a DVD so that this can be used in a group setting with a group of guys.\u00a0 We have the \"Taking the Lead\" study kit in our FamilyLife Resource Center, and we want to encourage guys to get in touch with us and order this kit and consider using it in a group setting with a whole group of guys so that you can begin to sharpen iron together around these leadership principles we're talking about this week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Go to our website, FamilyLife.com, and in the middle of the page, you'll see a button that says \"Go.\"\u00a0 If you click on that button, it will take you right to a page where there's more information about what's in the study kit that Ron has created.\u00a0 There's the book, the workbook, the CD, and the DVD and, again, it's great for group use.\u00a0 The website is FamilyLife.com, the button in the middle of the page says \"Go,\" click on that and get more information on this resource from Dr. Ron Jenson.\u00a0 You can also call 1-800-FLTODAY for more information.\u00a0 That's 1-800-358-6329 \u2013 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.\u00a0 When you call us, someone can answer any questions you have about this resource, or they can take your order over the phone and have the material sent out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You know, all month long we have been mentioning the matching gift opportunity that was made available to us during the month of May, and we have appreciated the listeners who have gotten in touch with us to say we want to help out and make sure you can take full advantage of that matching gift.\u00a0 And it occurs to me that we, also, Dennis, need to thank those folks who, month in and month out, provide the financial foundation for this ministry and help keep FamilyLife Today on the air not only in this community but in communities all across the country.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0It's a group of folks we refer to as our Legacy Partners and each month they send in a donation to the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 We try to keep in touch with them with special updates on what's going on around here and provide them with resources throughout the year to strengthen their marriage and their family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If you'd like more information about becoming a Legacy Partner, it's available online at FamilyLife.com, or you can call us at 1-800-FLTODAY, but we wanted to take just a minute and say thanks again, not only to those of you who made a donation during May to help with the matching gift but to our regular Legacy Partners who we hear from each month.\u00a0 We appreciate you standing with us here at FamilyLife Today and appreciate your financial support.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, tomorrow we're going to continue to look at what real leadership looks like in the church, in the marketplace, and in the home.\u00a0 Dr. Ron Jenson will be back with us, I hope you will be as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/site\/c.dnJHKLNnFoG\/b.3782043\/k.384D\/Support_Us.htm\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/www.FamilyLife.com\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["11.35M"],"filesize_raw":["11903728"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-301125.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-301125.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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Jenson focuses on the characteristics of gentleness and communication.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2006-05-31.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0And she started asking me questions and, of course, I started to answer the questions, I mean, I'm America's life coach, right?\u00a0 I fix people, and I wanted to fix her, of course, and she didn't want to be fixed.\u00a0 She leaned forward and said, \"Honey, I don't want you to answer my questions,\" and every part of my being was screaming out, \"Why in the world are you asking these questions if you don't want me to answer them?\"\u00a0 But I listened for an hour and a half, and when we got done, she reached across the table, grabbed my cheeks in her hands, planted a romantic kiss on my lips and said, \"Honey, honey, honey, thank you.\u00a0 This is the best conversation we've ever had.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, May 31st.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Sometimes being a man who takes the lead means just sitting back, being quiet, and listening.\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition.\u00a0 We are talking this week about men being leaders and stepping up to the responsibilities of leadership.\u00a0 Not the privileges but the responsibilities of leadership, and that's something that we need to be coaching men to do when they are young men, when they're still teenagers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You know, you've heard me share, over the years, how I've interviewed young men who have wanted to date my daughters, and I suppose, over the years, I've probably interviewed somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 young men who have wanted to take my daughters out for a date \u2013 or \u2013 some young men who have wanted to marry one of my daughters, and I've thought about this a bunch, since I've done this a number of times \u2013 the second most important component that I am looking for as I interview a young man who I'm considering giving my daughter away in marriage to is that of leadership.\u00a0 Does he possess the qualities of leadership that make him out to be a man of God who can truly love and lead my daughter?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, the first and most important quality I look for is whether or not he is walking with Jesus Christ, is personally submitted to Him, and whether he is in pursuit of Jesus Christ as a disciple, as a follower.\u00a0 And I have a friend with me today who is going to equip some men in not only how you can interview young men who want to date your daughters but help you clarify what it means to lead and how you can begin to develop 10 core qualities that Paul spoke about in 1 Thessalonians, chapter 2, that really summarize what it means to be a godly leader.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Ron Jenson has written a book called \"Taking the Lead,\" and he joins us on FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 He and his wife Mary are great friends of Barbara's and mine, and we're just thrilled to have you on the broadcast today, Ron, welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Great to be here, Dennis, thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Ron and Mary speak at our Weekend to Remember conferences; have done so for a number of years.\u00a0 We've, as I mentioned earlier, we've vacationed together.\u00a0 He's a \u2013 well, Ron is a man of the influence.\u00a0 He likes to influence people, he likes to love on people and make an impact for Jesus Christ, and I'm really pleased to say that Ron and Mary are among our closest friends, and it really didn't take him twisting our arm to be able to have him on FamilyLife Today and talk about this new book he's written for men on leadership.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Ron, I want to start here at the outset with just a quick summary of the 10 qualities that we mentioned earlier about what it means to be a godly leader.\u00a0 Because 1Thessalonians, chapter 2, does outline, in a very simple way but in a very profound way, qualities that every man needs to embrace.\u00a0 Share them with our listeners, please.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Well, the 10 are and, again, they're important because I think this is the best grid in all literature of what leadership is, and I think one reason guys don't lead is that they don't understand what a good, godly, balanced leader is.\u00a0 And in this text, we find him \u2013 team orientation, we're part of a team, we need others, and others need us.\u00a0 A disciplined life \u2013 we discipline ourselves for godliness; gentle spirit; fond affection, there is deep emotion and affection; effective communication; personal openness \u2013 that's really dealing with transparency; servant leadership; hard work \u2013 part of leadership is just working hard; and then being a godly model \u2013 it's not being perfect, but it's being progressing into the likeness of Christ; and then caring confrontation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yes, and I want to go back and talk about the third quality you spoke about there \u2013 gentleness.\u00a0 Now, you speak about what gentleness isn't in your book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Yes, and I do that because I think when guys think of gentleness, often they think of something very wimpy, and it's not that.\u00a0 Again, this is Paul, Timothy, and Sylvanus writing this book to the Thessalonians.\u00a0 They were rough, tough guys, though they are very different personalities \u2013 meaning all of us need to lead.\u00a0 We can't cop out on personality.\u00a0 But they were living under incredible hardship and difficulty, and they weren't ineffective, they weren't passive, they weren't living a false humility, they weren't weak.\u00a0 Gentleness is none of those things.\u00a0 Instead, the best metaphor for gentleness is really a wild stallion whose will has been broken, whose spirit is very much alive and brought under control of the master.\u00a0 And what God wants for us is to be gentle in the sense that our spirits are alive, dynamic, but it's under the control of the Spirit of God.\u00a0 That's really what gentleness is \u2013 strength under control.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yes, it's not weakness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It's not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0It's true strength of character.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It really is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Ron, as you were writing about this subject of gentleness in your book, I thought back to the days of science fairs with my kids, and a couple of my daughters \u2013 well, I don't know what it was about sometimes our children, but they would wait until the last possible minute to do the science fair project.\u00a0 Now, a science fair project can be put together the night before.\u00a0 But I want to underline the word \"night\" \u2013 the entire \"night\" before.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd so when one of our daughters, and I don't remember which one it was, so this preserves their reputation at this point.\u00a0\u00a0 When one of our daughters started work on this after they talked on the phone and after they had lollygagged around for a number of hours, about 9:00 at night I was ticked off.\u00a0 I did not embody this concept of gentleness like you're talking about and, frankly, I was angry at my daughter, and I was also angry at my wife, who rescued our daughter and stayed up until, like, 3 a.m. working on this magnificent science project, okay?\u00a0 You know, I'm talking about it has panels that explain the experiment and has \u2013 well, we got a blue ribbon for it, I think, as I recall.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, the Lord convicted me that I was wrong in getting angry.\u00a0 I went to bed.\u00a0 I just sulked and went to bed in my anger, and I had a chance, on another child, to bring some redemption to the process and, sure enough, this one had the same disease the other child did \u2013 waited until the last minute and this time, instead of grousing and griping, I decided I was going to be this kind of man here, and I was going to be a gentle man with my wife and my daughter, as I recall, one of my other daughters, and I was going to participate in this science fair, and I was going to be gentle and not be harsh and not be angry and not sulk and not just go to bed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And, you know, my kids have never, ever mentioned this.\u00a0 I don't know that any of them maybe even remember it, but I do.\u00a0 And I think, for a man, if we do make mistakes in terms of being gentle with our wives or our children or in the workplace in who we relate to, the issue is not that we failed, although it's never good to fail, but the issue is that we confess and ask forgiveness when we've made a mistake, and then when we have the opportunity to replace harshness or a critical spirit or an angry spirit with a gentle spirit, we do so, don't you agree?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Oh, I do, and I have a very recent illustration of this with my wife.\u00a0 We were on a vacation with our two adult kids, and my daughter was lying down on the couch, and my wife was sitting by the kitchen, and I said, \"Honey, do we have any bottled water in here,\" and she goes, \"The water that's in the refrigerator,\" in this condo belongs to our friends whose condo we were staying at, and I simply said this like this \u2013 I said, \"That's not the question I asked.\u00a0 Do we have any bottled water?\"\u00a0 And that's about how I said it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Probably more impatient than you just said it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Probably.\u00a0 I just \u2013 quick.\u00a0 You know, I get sarcastic or quick or short.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yeah, I've seen you do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Uh-huh, yeah, and you've trained in most of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0This is one of the problems of having friends \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It's good to have friends, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And to have the friend on the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0I remember, we vacationed together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0We have, we have.\u00a0 We've both seen one another get \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0There you go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yeah, anyway, keep going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Well, anyway, so after I said that, Mary didn't say anything, but my daughter, Molly, goes, \"Ewwwww.\"\u00a0 I go, \"What's the ewwww about?\"\u00a0 She goes, \"That was harsh.\"\u00a0 I said, \"Harsh?\u00a0 What?\"\u00a0 She goes, \"The way you said that.\"\u00a0 I said, \"What do you mean?\"\u00a0 She said, \"Lookit, if you were my husband, I wouldn't want you to talk to me like that.\"\u00a0 I said, \"Oh, man, what do you mean?\"\u00a0 And then \u2013 so she goes, \"Well, that was just rude.\u00a0 It was not what you said, it's how you said it.\u00a0 Why couldn't you just be more gentle?\"\u00a0 And so I had to go in and prayer a little bit and work through that one, that humiliation, and come out.\u00a0 And then I was telling Molly how proud I was of her for bringing that up \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0And for rebuking me \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0And a little bit later Mary said, \"You know, that was good, honey, that you did that, but you actually could have apologized to me for\" \u2013 so I got it twice.\u00a0 And, you know, so much of this harshness is nonverbal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0It really is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It's tone of voice \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You don't have to raise your voice and have your blood vessels in your neck be popping out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0No, and I realized what I had done there, and I've tried to be more aware of it ever since, but I can shut my wife's spirit down very quickly, and the metaphor, again, is we were gentle among you like a nursing mother tenderly cares for her children.\"\u00a0 So think of a nursing mother tenderly caring for her child.\u00a0 She's stroking the cheek of that little child, she's patient, she's available.\u00a0 In the middle of the night when Mary was feeding our kids, and they would scream, I'd roll over and say, \"Honey, I'm not equipped,\" and she would jump out and go take care of the kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But that metaphor of a nursing mother is a great one for us to get in our minds when we think of what godly gentleness is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Longsuffering \u2013 you think of how a mom cares in that situation.\u00a0 Yes, and there's also a side, Ron, of gentleness that goes beyond that nursing mother that protects.\u00a0 Gentleness protects from evil, can protect your spouse from a child.\u00a0 Gentleness really takes care of the other person that no harm befalls them.\u00a0 And I like the illustration that you give out of the Scriptures at that point \u2013 what nursing mother wouldn't protect that child from anything coming after that little infant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Well, the third quality that you speak of is gentleness.\u00a0 There's a fourth one here called \"fond affection.\"\u00a0 What do you mean by that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Well, Paul, Timothy, and Sylvanus says \"We loved you so much that we were well pleased to impart to you not only the Gospel but our very own lives because you became very dear to us.\"\u00a0 So we loved you so much, one translator says, \"We affectionately desired you because you became very dear to us.\"\u00a0 I think we've lost the art, as men, partly because of the media and the culture, to show affection, and the two things that kill affection \u2013 one thing that kills affection and one that makes it happen \u2013 what kills it, often, is bitterness.\u00a0 You know, so often in our Promise Keepers events and other events we've done at FamilyLife, we'll ask guys what they got from their dads growing up, or if they got the love or the attention they didn't get, and we've just found a lot of bitterness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So on the one hand, we just need to forgive and forget and let go \u2013 that's one thing.\u00a0 On the other hand, we need to demonstrate affection, and that's a lost art.\u00a0 I was amazed to be at the recent wedding that we were at \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You're speaking now of my daughter, Rebecca.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Your daughter, Rebecca \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And the young man I gave her to \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Yes, Jake.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Jake.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0And to have Jake's dad, who is a mutual friend of ours, who we think so highly of, he would greet us.\u00a0 He'd come up and give all the guys a kiss.\u00a0 In fact, I watched their family.\u00a0 They all gave one another a kiss \u2013 on the lips!\u00a0 I mean, that was kind of the modus operandi.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Bill did not kiss me on the lips, however.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0Well, but I remember years ago, when I learned this lesson.\u00a0 It was a homecoming event.\u00a0 My son had been nominated to the homecoming court at the high school he was at, and during halftime the parents would walk down the center line, the 50-yard line, from the visitors, the home team.\u00a0 Many hundreds, probably thousands, of people there, and my son, Matt, was nominated the Homecoming King, which was a great honor, and as we would go around the corner to walk down the 50-yard line, he reached out and grabbed his mom's hand, and then he reached out to grab my hand, like he wanted to hold my hand, and I looked at all these people at the home side, and I thought, \"Oh, man, he doesn't want to hold my hand.\u00a0 They're going to think he's goofy.\"\u00a0 And I thought, \"This will be embarrassing,\" so I stuck my hand in my pocket and just touched his elbow, and we walked down there and had a great night.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0The next day Mary came up to me, and she said, \"Honey, do you know how much you hurt your son last night?\"\u00a0 And I said, \"What do you mean?\"\u00a0 She said, \"Well, when he reached out to hold your hand, he really wanted to hold your hand.\u00a0 He wanted to walk hand-in-hand down the 50-yard line with you.\"\u00a0 I said, \"Why?\"\u00a0 She said, \"Well, he's had an impact on a lot of these kids, led a lot of them to Christ, well-known, they all know how much he loves his parents and how close he is to his parents, especially to you.\u00a0 And he wanted to demonstrate that nonverbally, and you stole that from him.\u00a0 He'll never have that opportunity again.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You know, and so I melted into the ground, and I went an apologized, and that was very gracious, but I realized that I had been so conformed of the world's system when it comes to affection, I was trying to play this Rambo mindset, you know, of tough, and whenever Matt and I see one another now, to this day, we hug, we'll kiss one another on the cheek.\u00a0 It will be fond affection and, you know, we forget how cultural in the Western world, especially our concept of affection is, and our young men and young women appropriately our kids are looking for the right kind of affection.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I can go way the wrong direction, of course, but they're desperate for that, and we just need to demonstrate it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I think \u2013 you know, it's just a great feeling for two men to hug one another, and yet the culture has really robbed us because of how affection between men has been twisted, the culture has really robbed us of a great opportunity for us to express a fond affection that you're talking about.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0There is also an affection that men need to express to their wives that they're not good at as well \u2013 this is the language of romance to our wives.\u00a0 They want a fond affection that doesn't demand a sexual response.\u00a0 They are looking for a touch of the hand, a snuggle, something sweet in their ears \u2013 \"I love you, sweetheart, I'd marry you all over again\" \u2013 fond affection can take a number of different faces, but it is a part of strong, competent, godly, male leadership, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It is.\u00a0 Yesterday we were at a hotel, and Mary and I went out and exercised in the morning and afterwards we went swimming a little bit, and I was just holding Mary in the pool, and she just sat there and said, \"I love this, I love this.\"\u00a0 I said, \"What?\"\u00a0 She goes, \"Just being here, just this quality time, this just communicating, really just my prattling on.\"\u00a0 She said, \"I just love this.\"\u00a0 And, of course, being emotionally challenged like I am, I didn't have the full appreciation of that, but I do know how meaningful that kind of thing is to my wife and how meaningful it is to me, even though I might not connect at the same emotional level she does with that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I was just thinking about that, Ron.\u00a0 There's probably not a man listening right now who is going, \"I wouldn't think of just having my wife hold me.\"\u00a0 And, for that reason, because it's not what communicates fond affection to us as men, we don't think about holding our wives because of that.\u00a0 And our wives just need to be hugged and held many times \u2013 just for 30 to 45 seconds after we get home from work, after they've been challenged throughout the day with discipline of the little ones with running a household or perhaps coming back from work herself and preparing the meal and just the hassles of running a household this day, our wives just need us to gather them up in our arms and just say, \"You know what?\u00a0 I love you.\u00a0 You're the best.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0That's exactly right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0This next quality of leadership \u2013 effective communication.\u00a0 I think if there is one on the list that challenges men even more than fond affection it's the area of communication.\u00a0 We, as men, don't do a great job on this, do we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0We don't, and we're not, by the way, not talking here about being great orators.\u00a0 There's a lot of research out that indicates great leaders are often not great orators, and I think sometimes men get afraid of communication because they think of, you know, standing before a big group.\u00a0 It just means I communicate in such a way that I connect, and as we often teach in our FamilyLife events, it's, on the one hand, first seeking to understand, and then it's seeking to be understood, and I think the hardest thing for us is seeking to understand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Mary came back from an event some years ago, and after the event she said, \"Honey, could we go out?\u00a0 I've got a lot of questions.\"\u00a0 I said, \"Sure,\" and we went out for coffee, and she started asking me questions, and, of course, I started to answer the questions, I mean, I'm America's life coach, right?\u00a0 I fix people, and I wanted to fix her, of course, and she didn't want to be fixed.\u00a0 She leaned forward and patted my hand, which I knew meant \"Shut up,\" and said, \"Honey, I don't want you to answer my questions,\" and every part of my being was screaming out, \"Why in the world are you asking these questions if you don't want me to answer them?\"\u00a0 But I majored in communications, and I knew she wanted to be listened to, so I listened for an hour and a half, and did what we teach a lot and that is ask clarifying questions like \"What do you mean by this?\"\u00a0 Or \"Is this like when this happened to me?\"\u00a0 And when we got done, I had made no declarative statements.\u00a0 We were an hour and a half into this \"discussion.\"\u00a0 I had made no statements.\u00a0 I just asked questions, and I had to keep \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Way to go, Ron.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0I had to bite my lip \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I am so impressed.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It was killing me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0This is great.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It was painful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0It was.\u00a0 It's tough for us, as a man, to not offer a solution, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0It was.\u00a0 And when we got done, she reached across the table, grabbed my cheeks in her hands, planted a romantic kiss on my lips and said, \"Honey, honey, honey, thank you.\u00a0 This is the best conversation we've ever had.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I thought, \"Wait a second.\u00a0 I didn't say anything.\"\u00a0 And I thought, \"Oh, I'm getting the point.\"\u00a0 She wanted to be heard, and a big part of communication, we need to know, as guys, this is so counter-intuitive but is to listen.\u00a0 You know, people want to be understood.\u00a0 They want to be cared for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You quote Hamlet in your book, and I'm impressed, Ron, that you quoted Hamlet, by the way, which goes, \"Give every man thine ear but few thy voice.\"\u00a0 That could be rephrased \u2013 give every woman your listening ear but hold your solutions and hold your tongue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRon:\u00a0And that would be true for kids, too, by the way \u2013 or in the workplace. We need to listen more.\u00a0 We don't do it effectively.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0We don't.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And, you know, I think, again, we don't think of leaders as listeners.\u00a0 You know, when you think of the quintessential leader, you don't think of somebody who is spending a lot of time listening.\u00a0 You think of somebody whose is giving instruction; who is saying, \"Come on, let's go.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But if we're going to be effective as leaders, we've got to be listeners, we've got to be attentive to the needs of those around us.\u00a0 They've got to know that we care about them, and part of the way that we demonstrate that is by listening.\u00a0 And that's whether we're leading in the marketplace or in the home or in the church, and I think, as you do, Ron, that there are guys who need to step up and embrace the God-designed assignment to be leaders, to be men who take the lead.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You've written a book on that subject, there's a study guide associated with that book, there is also a CD and a DVD so that this can be used in a group setting with a group of guys.\u00a0 We have the \"Taking the Lead\" study kit in our FamilyLife Resource Center, and we want to encourage guys to get in touch with us and order this kit and consider using it in a group setting with a whole group of guys so that you can begin to sharpen iron together around these leadership principles we're talking about this week.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Go to our website, FamilyLife.com, and in the middle of the page, you'll see a button that says \"Go.\"\u00a0 If you click on that button, it will take you right to a page where there's more information about what's in the study kit that Ron has created.\u00a0 There's the book, the workbook, the CD, and the DVD and, again, it's great for group use.\u00a0 The website is FamilyLife.com, the button in the middle of the page says \"Go,\" click on that and get more information on this resource from Dr. Ron Jenson.\u00a0 You can also call 1-800-FLTODAY for more information.\u00a0 That's 1-800-358-6329 \u2013 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.\u00a0 When you call us, someone can answer any questions you have about this resource, or they can take your order over the phone and have the material sent out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You know, all month long we have been mentioning the matching gift opportunity that was made available to us during the month of May, and we have appreciated the listeners who have gotten in touch with us to say we want to help out and make sure you can take full advantage of that matching gift.\u00a0 And it occurs to me that we, also, Dennis, need to thank those folks who, month in and month out, provide the financial foundation for this ministry and help keep FamilyLife Today on the air not only in this community but in communities all across the country.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0It's a group of folks we refer to as our Legacy Partners and each month they send in a donation to the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 We try to keep in touch with them with special updates on what's going on around here and provide them with resources throughout the year to strengthen their marriage and their family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0If you'd like more information about becoming a Legacy Partner, it's available online at FamilyLife.com, or you can call us at 1-800-FLTODAY, but we wanted to take just a minute and say thanks again, not only to those of you who made a donation during May to help with the matching gift but to our regular Legacy Partners who we hear from each month.\u00a0 We appreciate you standing with us here at FamilyLife Today and appreciate your financial support.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, tomorrow we're going to continue to look at what real leadership looks like in the church, in the marketplace, and in the home.\u00a0 Dr. Ron Jenson will be back with us, I hope you will be as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/site\/c.dnJHKLNnFoG\/b.3782043\/k.384D\/Support_Us.htm\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a 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