{"id":301041,"date":"2006-01-06T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2006-01-06T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/my-fathers-will\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:42:14","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:42:14","slug":"my-fathers-will","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/my-fathers-will\/","title":{"rendered":"My Father&#8217;s Will"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dennis Rainey talks with Mart Green and Steve Saint about the making of the movie, The End of the Spear.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2006-01-06.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"11.4M","filesize_raw":"11957292","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2089],"tags":[4299,4288],"podcast_series":[7424],"cwp_profile":[8984,8983],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-301041","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-media-and-entertainment","tag-faith","tag-movie","podcast_series-end-of-the-spear","cwp_profile-mart-green","cwp_profile-steve-saint","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/301041\/my-fathers-will","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/301041\/my-fathers-will","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"dgamwS4xjy\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/my-fathers-will\/\">My Father&#8217;s Will<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/my-fathers-will\/embed\/#?secret=dgamwS4xjy\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;My Father&#8217;s Will&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"dgamwS4xjy\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2006-01-06.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2006-01-06.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0When he said, \"We want your permission,\" I said, \"Well, what is the story you want to tell,\" and when he told me that he wanted to tell this story, that millions of people have read, over the years, he said, \"But I want to tell it from the Waodani perspective.\"\u00a0 And I said, \"Well, it seems to me that you should ask the Waodani,\" and so Mart said, \"How could we ask them?\"\u00a0 I said, \"Well, I'll take you down there.\u00a0 I'll lead you to them, and I'll translate for you.\"\u00a0 And I thought, \"That will be the end of this.\"\u00a0 And Mart got on his cell phone and some of the guys on his team, and they said, \"Okay, we've cleared our calendars.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, January 6th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will meet today the Waodani warrior who said yes to the making of the movie of the story of the five martyred American missionaries.\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Friday edition.\u00a0 It was 50 years ago this Sunday that five young American missionaries were martyred on the banks of the Curaray River in Ecuador.\u00a0 Their deaths became a national news story here in the United States.\u00a0 It was in \"Life\" magazine back in January of 1956, and here in the next couple of weeks there is a major motion picture that is being released that tells the story of those American missionaries and, Dennis, I think God is going to use that movie in a powerful way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I do, too.\u00a0 The movie is called \"The End of the Spear,\" and it tells the story of these five martyrs and their widows, and it's not just a story at a point in time.\u00a0 The story continues on to this day, and the son of one of those who gave up his life there, Nate Saint, his son, Steve, joins us on FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 Steve, welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Hi, Dennis, Bob, nice to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Also, the one who had the vision for this film, Mart Green, founder and CEO of Bearing Fruit Communication out of Oklahoma City, joins us again.\u00a0 Mart, welcome back to FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0Thank you, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And our first-ever warrior from the Waodani tribe, Mincaye joins us.\u00a0 And all these names are a challenge, but tell him he's been welcomed to our broadcast and that there's a couple of million people listening to him right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0[speaks Waodani to Mincaye]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMincaye:\u00a0[responds in Waodani]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0He's wanting to know how he came here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMincaye:\u00a0[speaking Waodani]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0He says, \"Before I came here, I had to go teach some of my people how to walk God's trail, so I was way off in another part of the jungles, a long ways away, and I had to come all the way back so that I could start coming all the way back up here,\" and now he's going to want to tell you all that he had to go through to get here.\u00a0 He's counting on his fingers how many days \u2013 six days it took him to get here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0He said, \"I had to go and get on the auto thing\" \u2013 the bus \u2013 \"to come all around our territory.\u00a0 Then I had to go on a canoe with a motor and \u2013 it is a long way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0It's a long way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Tell him we're happy he has made the journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0\u00a0[speaks to Mincaye in Waodani]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I want to ask you, because earlier this week Bob and I had the privilege of being at the premier showing of the movie.\u00a0 If he can tell us without taking us all the way back to Ecuador, ask Mincaye what he thought about the movie as, I suppose, was this the first movie he's ever seen in his whole life, too?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, he's seen videos.\u00a0 He's never seen this film before.\u00a0 [speaks to Mincaye in Waodani].\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMincaye:\u00a0[responds in Waodani]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0\"Wa\" is the word for good.\u00a0 He said, \"I saw it very well.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMincaye:\u00a0[speaks in Waodani]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0[translating] I said, \"Look at that thing.\u00a0 Oooh, is that supposed to be me?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Did it bring a lot of memories for him, do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0In the tribe, they have an oral tradition.\u00a0 Mincaye doesn't read and write, so the time that we spend reading and writing and making notes, they lock it into their memory.\u00a0 Those memories have been alive for Mincaye since 1956.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you were pictured in the movie as about a 7- or 8-year-old boy, is that accurate?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, there, all the way up to 45, I guess.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0That's true, yeah, we show, from your childhood.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Cute and young to old and scruffy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And we saw you with your aunt and with Aunt Betty, Elisabeth Elliott, going back into the jungle as a young boy.\u00a0 There had to be fear in the heart of a young boy to think, \"We're going back in here.\u00a0 These men killed my father.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, actually, not.\u00a0 Mart said \"adventure.\"\u00a0 It was an adventure.\u00a0 We had been praying as a family \u2013 my mom and dad prayed for these people, so I knew these people were special somehow.\u00a0 We were praying for them, then they killed my father, but my mom and Aunt Mary Lou and Aunt Barb and Aunt Betty and Aunt Olive, they didn't act like, \"Oh, this is a terrible, terrible calamity.\"\u00a0 Now, I could tell they were sad, but so I thought, \"Oh, these people are still special to us.\"\u00a0 And Aunt Rachel was living with Dayuma [ph], and Dayuma is from this tribe, and Dayuma was special, and, no, so I just \u2013 when the chance came to go in and meet them, when Aunt Rachel felt that the time had come that a male child related to my dad could come in without being killed \u2013 because I was a terrible threat to the tribe, because in their culture, they would have expected that when I grew up, I would have the right and the responsibility to avenge my father's death.\u00a0 When Aunt Rachel finally thought, after about a year that she'd been in there, they really understand that we walk a different trail and that we won't avenge, then she invited me to go in.\u00a0 I just couldn't wait.\u00a0 These people are so special to me, I expected them to come gather around me to see who I was, and that surprised me, because they didn't.\u00a0 They stood off and looked at me.\u00a0 I felt really self-conscious.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Were they afraid of you, do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0No, they didn't know what I was.\u00a0 I was as tall as some of the shorter adults at nine, or not much shorter than they were.\u00a0 But I didn't have any physical features of a man or a woman, and they didn't know what I was.\u00a0 And I had these strange things growing out of my head.\u00a0 They thought my glasses were actually part of my face, which is pretty scary to some of the kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0In 1999, when you and Mart had made contact about the possibility of doing this movie, you felt it was essential to get the okay of the tribe.\u00a0 Now, I'm not sure that was a legal requirement.\u00a0 In other words, I don't think they'd have come back and sued you for making the movie, but you felt it was necessary for the continuing work, for the integrity of the project, and you went in and asked for permission, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, Bob, people have been talking about making this story into a movie since I was a boy, but I knew that it was a big job.\u00a0 I didn't have any idea how big a job it was to do it, and \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Mart is shaking his head over here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0We all agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0He didn't have any idea how big \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0Neither one of us knew what he was getting into.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0It took huge creativity, a big team of people with specific talents and abilities, it took financial resources, but what Mart came asking me for was permission to do my story and for seven years I've been saying, \"This is not my story.\u00a0 I didn't write it.\u00a0 I had a front-row seat, and I had a repetitive part in it,\" but when he said, \"We want your permission,\" I said, \"Well, what is the story you want to tell,\" and when he told me that he wanted to tell this story, that millions of people have read of over the years, he said, \"But I want to tell it from the Waodani perspective.\"\u00a0 And I said, \"Well, it seems to me that you should ask the Waodani,\" and, really, I wanted in a nice way to say no, and so Mart said, instead of saying, \"Oh, we couldn't.\u00a0 I'm busy, can't do that.\"\u00a0 He said, \"How could we ask them?\"\u00a0 I said, \"Well, I'll take you down there.\u00a0 I'll lead you to them, and I'll translate for you.\"\u00a0 And I thought, \"That will be the end of this.\"\u00a0 And Mart got on his cell phone and some of the guys on his team, and they said, \"Okay, we've cleared our calendars.\u00a0 When do we go?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0It took Mincaye six days to get here, I'll bet it took you a while, Mart, to get down there.\u00a0 How much travel did it entail?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0We flew from here down to Quito and then Steve put us on a bus for several hours.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0I took in the bus; I went with you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all went together, and then we got on a bush plane for an hour, and then he stuck a backpack on us for six or seven hours, and then we got in a dugout canoe for four or five hours in the rain, and then we went to a hut that had 22 hammocks, and we checked into the Waodani Hotel.\u00a0 And it took us a couple, three days to get down there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And describe for us the meeting as you and Mart were together with the tribe, and you translated.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, first, we were just \u2013 we got there late in the afternoon, everybody was tired, everybody went to sleep, nobody knew how to sleep in a hammock, they didn't know where to get food.\u00a0 The next day we got together, and I said, \"Inyana [ph] people, my group,\" this is my extended family in the tribe that we were meeting with, and I said, \"These people want to make a video of your history.\u00a0 What do you say?\"\u00a0 And several of them smacked \"Bah, we say no.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, okay, we've come all that what Mart was just describing \u2013 all the way out here, and they say, \"No.\"\u00a0 And I said people \u2013 they said, \"How do you see it?\"\u00a0 I said, \"I see it \u2013 well, if you say no, I, too, say no.\u00a0 But well, if you would say yes, I, too, would say yes.\"\u00a0 And they said, \"Why?\" and I said, \"Well, people, do you know that foreigners, too, live angry and hating and furious,\" and I began to tell them what had happened at Columbine and at a couple of other schools, and when I described what happened at Columbine, Mincaye said, \"That's just how we used to live \u2013 hating and being furious, killing for no reason at all.\"\u00a0 And he said, \"I say yes.\u00a0 If those foreigners are living like we used to, then maybe if they see that we lived that way, and then they see look how we live now, happily and in peace, maybe they, too, can learn how to live in peace.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then I thought, \"Well, now, wait a minute, the no was maybe a little bit premature but maybe this yes hasn't been completely thought through.\u00a0 So I said, \"People if they tell your history, they are going to show you like Aucas, like the people said that you were \u2013 naked, living like savages out here in the jungle.\"\u00a0 And Mincaye's wife, Ompoteh [ph], she said, \"Bah\" \u2013 and she whipped off her blouse, and she tore off her skirt, and she's just sitting there, almost naked, in the middle of the group.\u00a0 The whole group is trying to pretend like they didn't notice what was going on.\u00a0 She said, \"I say if they have to show us like we lived,\" \u2013 now, she didn't mean naked, she said, \"living hating and furious,\" but the nakedness was part of that culture, she said, then I say, \"Just tell them to show us like we were.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Mart, I have to ask you at that point what did you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0Well, it was exciting to know for the story \u2013 it was exciting to know that they understood and that they saw as a mission field in North America that their story, the power of a story, could help North America and they could give back to North America was just overwhelming at that point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0The irony is amazing, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0It's amazing.\u00a0 It's their turn to come back and help us now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And so, Steve, they went ahead and signed off on it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, they didn't sign off on it.\u00a0 If you noticed, Mincaye yesterday autographing stuff.\u00a0 He doesn't write, so he puts his thumb on an inkpad and gives a thumbprint so they may be printed off on it instead of signed off on it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0They said yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0We say yes, and then they asked me \u2013 I said, \"Well, there's details here that you all don't know how to deal with.\u00a0 They said, \"Bavay, we saying yes, you be the one to talk to them.\"\u00a0 So not for the whole tribe but for the clan that I'm part of, the people that killed my dad that were part of this story, they said, \"We say yes, and you talk to them about it.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Will there be a showing for them of this film?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0We took the documentary down there and showed it to them in the jungle, and then we hope to do a premier in Panama.\u00a0 The movie was shot in Panama, so we hope to bring some of the Waodani up to Panama so they'll get to see the film there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0They actually \u2013 Mart and team \u2013 actually showed the premier of the docudrama was done down in the jungles.\u00a0 The Waodani were the first ones with surround sound, speakers hung in the trees, the big screen leaned up against the long house.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Way to go, Mart.\u00a0 That's the way to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Did you have to take a generator?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0I think it stopped eight or nine times, you know, the generators, you know, we were so disappointed but only because the document had them in it, so it was more powerful for them than the movie, because they have actors in that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, and they could understand a lot of the dialog.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And speaking of that, the movie is in subtitles.\u00a0 Is the language accurate?\u00a0 Could Mincaye watch last night and understand the language?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0No.\u00a0 It was authentic language, but the film couldn't be shot in Ecuador because the infrastructure was lacking.\u00a0 There was no place for the actors and crew and grips and all those people to stay out in the jungles, so it was shot in Panama in an area of jungle that the U.S. military used to use to train U.S. soldiers for jungle warfare.\u00a0 They had a big hospital.\u00a0 That hospital has been turned into a beautiful hotel, but you walk out of the hotel and, what, Mart, a quarter of a mile, and you're in jungle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And so because it was going to be shot in Panama, they chose a tribe of Indians in Panama, the Embera, to play the Waodani.\u00a0 And these people had a very similar background, but the people today, the Embera, are about three generations removed from living as hunter\/gatherers, so to make it authentic the film team asked me to bring a delegation of Waodani up from Ecuador to teach the Embera how to be Waodani.\u00a0 And that was a fascinating process.\u00a0 These people realized these Waodani live like our ancestors, now they're going to teach us, and it was just like, guys, we are going to school.\u00a0 They're going to teach us who we used to be, and they were fascinated by it, and they did an absolutely excellent job of portraying the Waodani.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I have to agree with you.\u00a0 Again, I don't know the tribe you're speaking of and how they behaved, but both Bob and I turned to teach other and said, \"How did they train that tribe to be able to act?\"\u00a0 I mean, because they became actors, actresses.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0You know what I think it was, I was there telling the Embera the story, and they kept asking me, \"What happened here and what happened here?\"\u00a0 And it wasn't so much, I don't think, that they learned to act.\u00a0 They understood the story, and so they got into the story, and so when the story called for fury, they were furious.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Well, and it's interesting, too, to compare how they present the story in the movie that folks are going to get a chance to see in theaters in a couple of weeks, with the documentary, \"Beyond the Gates of Splendor,\" that is now out on DVD.\u00a0 In fact, last summer I got the whole family together, and we watched this documentary together, and there were some points where I had to fill in a few of the details for my younger children who weren't as fully aware of the story, but the DVD, \"Beyond the Gates of Splendor,\" is a documentary about the martyrdom of these missionaries, and the movie that's coming out in a couple of weeks is a theatrical motion picture, and you get a chance, if you have both of them, to see the story told two different ways and from two different perspectives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0We've got copies of the DVD \"Beyond the Gates of Splendor\" in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 We also have copies of the companion book, Steve, that you've written called \"End of the Spear.\"\u00a0 If our listeners are interested in getting a copy of the DVD or the book, they can go to our website, FamilyLife.com and click the \"Go\" button at the bottom of the screen.\u00a0 That will take you right to a page where you've got more information about these resources and others that are available on this subject.\u00a0 In fact, if you buy the DVD and the book together, we'll send you the audio CD of our conversation this week with Steve Saint and Mart Green and Mincaye.\u00a0 We'll send that at no additional cost. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, the website, FamilyLife.com, click the \"Go\" button at the bottom of the screen or call us at 1-800-FLTODAY, that's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and someone on our team can let you know how you can get these resources sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Steve, I have to ask you one other question, because I know that you have experienced in the last couple of years, some personal tragedy, and God has used Mincaye to minister to you in the midst of that tragedy, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Yes.\u00a0 God used Grandfather Mincaye to help me trust in the death of my \u2013 sudden and totally unexpected death of Ginny's and my only daughter who died after being gone and traveling around the world with a music group for a year, she came home, we had this incredible welcome home party, and in the middle of her welcome home party she had a massive cerebral hemorrhage and died.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0How old?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0She was 20 years and 20 days.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You had just gone back to pray for her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0She had a headache, and Ginny said, \"Hey, Steph's back in her room, and she wants you to pray for her.\"\u00a0 So I thought it was a conspiracy, you know, for Ginny and me to be with Stephanie alone, because we had\u00a0 other family and friends kept stopping by, and so Ginny sat on the bed and held Steph \u2013 Steph was much taller than Ginny, but she was holding her little girl, and I had my arms around her, and I said, \"Yes, God cares about headaches, too,\" and I prayed that God would take her headache away, and while I was praying she had this massive hemorrhage, and she made a funny sound, and I looked at her, and I saw her eyes roll up into her head, but I called 911, and they rushed to our house, and they ran in with a gurney, and they could realize that she was in deep trouble, and they put her on the gurney, and as they ran out, her head was flopping to the side and hitting the gurney, and it was my little girl, so I didn't have any idea what was happening.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, \"Well, she's just exhausted, she's dehydrated,\" so I ran out with them to hold Stephie's head, and so I jumped in the ambulance with them, but when we got down to the hospital and Grandfather came down, what he saw was these people he had never seen before, drove up to our house in this strange vehicle with lights all over it.\u00a0 They burst into our house, they didn't greet us or anything, they ran back to her, and they grabbed Stephanie, and they kidnapped her, and I'm sure it looked to him, this is like a spearing raid, only the foreigners are doing it.\u00a0 They've come in, and they've taken Stephanie.\u00a0 And he loved Stephanie.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So when he got down to the emergency room, he grabbed me, and he had this look on his face that I'd never seen, and he said, \"Bavay, Bavay, tell me\" \u2013 that's my tribal name \u2013 he said, \"Tell me who is doing this.\"\u00a0 And I realized he's ready to kill somebody to defend Stephanie, and he's a peaceful, fun-loving, I mean, wonderful man, but he knew how to kill people, and he hadn't forgotten that, and he said, \"These people are doing this terrible thing.\u00a0 You tell me who is doing this.\"\u00a0 And I said, [speaks Waodani], \"I don't know.\"\u00a0 My head was reeling.\u00a0 We were just five minutes before we were in the middle of this wonderful celebration that Stephanie had come back to us.\u00a0 I said, \"I don't know.\u00a0 Nobody is doing this.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And then he grabbed me, and he said, \"Bavay, now I see it well.\u00a0 Don't you understand?\u00a0 Wyngnongi is doing this.\u00a0 God Himself is doing this, taking Stephanie to live with Him.\"\u00a0 I thought, \"Mincaye, how can you say that God would do something like this?\"\u00a0 And then Mincaye started reaching out to the people in the emergency room.\u00a0 He said, \"People, people, don't you understand, being a God-follower, God Himself is taking Stephanie to live with Him.\"\u00a0 And he said, \"Look at me.\u00a0 I am an old man\" \u2013 of course, none of them could understand, and they were busy with different things that were going on, and they were rushing past us, and he actually was physically grabbing for them \u2013 \"Listen, listen to me.\"\u00a0 He said, \"Being an old man, pretty soon I, too, am going to die, and being a God-follower, I, too, am going to go Onatty [ph] and live with Wyngnongi.\"\u00a0 And he said, \"People, if you will just walk God's trail, then coming to God's place,\" Stephanie, Star, \"Nemoh\" he called her \u2013 \"Nemoh and I will be there happily waiting to greet you, and then we will live happily forever in God's place.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And I realized Mincaye's faith was real and that night he wrapped his arms of faith around me in the most devastating, awful, unbelievable circumstance of my life, ever.\u00a0 Mincaye helped me hang onto my faith, and I realized, you know, if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t_______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts for you. However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>www.FamilyLife.com<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["11.4M"],"filesize_raw":["11957292"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-301041.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-301041.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: 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Rainey talks with Mart Green and Steve Saint about the making of the movie, The End of the Spear.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2006-01-06.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0When he said, \"We want your permission,\" I said, \"Well, what is the story you want to tell,\" and when he told me that he wanted to tell this story, that millions of people have read, over the years, he said, \"But I want to tell it from the Waodani perspective.\"\u00a0 And I said, \"Well, it seems to me that you should ask the Waodani,\" and so Mart said, \"How could we ask them?\"\u00a0 I said, \"Well, I'll take you down there.\u00a0 I'll lead you to them, and I'll translate for you.\"\u00a0 And I thought, \"That will be the end of this.\"\u00a0 And Mart got on his cell phone and some of the guys on his team, and they said, \"Okay, we've cleared our calendars.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, January 6th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will meet today the Waodani warrior who said yes to the making of the movie of the story of the five martyred American missionaries.\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Friday edition.\u00a0 It was 50 years ago this Sunday that five young American missionaries were martyred on the banks of the Curaray River in Ecuador.\u00a0 Their deaths became a national news story here in the United States.\u00a0 It was in \"Life\" magazine back in January of 1956, and here in the next couple of weeks there is a major motion picture that is being released that tells the story of those American missionaries and, Dennis, I think God is going to use that movie in a powerful way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I do, too.\u00a0 The movie is called \"The End of the Spear,\" and it tells the story of these five martyrs and their widows, and it's not just a story at a point in time.\u00a0 The story continues on to this day, and the son of one of those who gave up his life there, Nate Saint, his son, Steve, joins us on FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 Steve, welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Hi, Dennis, Bob, nice to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Also, the one who had the vision for this film, Mart Green, founder and CEO of Bearing Fruit Communication out of Oklahoma City, joins us again.\u00a0 Mart, welcome back to FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0Thank you, Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And our first-ever warrior from the Waodani tribe, Mincaye joins us.\u00a0 And all these names are a challenge, but tell him he's been welcomed to our broadcast and that there's a couple of million people listening to him right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0[speaks Waodani to Mincaye]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMincaye:\u00a0[responds in Waodani]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0He's wanting to know how he came here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMincaye:\u00a0[speaking Waodani]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0He says, \"Before I came here, I had to go teach some of my people how to walk God's trail, so I was way off in another part of the jungles, a long ways away, and I had to come all the way back so that I could start coming all the way back up here,\" and now he's going to want to tell you all that he had to go through to get here.\u00a0 He's counting on his fingers how many days \u2013 six days it took him to get here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0He said, \"I had to go and get on the auto thing\" \u2013 the bus \u2013 \"to come all around our territory.\u00a0 Then I had to go on a canoe with a motor and \u2013 it is a long way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0It's a long way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Tell him we're happy he has made the journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0\u00a0[speaks to Mincaye in Waodani]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I want to ask you, because earlier this week Bob and I had the privilege of being at the premier showing of the movie.\u00a0 If he can tell us without taking us all the way back to Ecuador, ask Mincaye what he thought about the movie as, I suppose, was this the first movie he's ever seen in his whole life, too?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, he's seen videos.\u00a0 He's never seen this film before.\u00a0 [speaks to Mincaye in Waodani].\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMincaye:\u00a0[responds in Waodani]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0\"Wa\" is the word for good.\u00a0 He said, \"I saw it very well.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMincaye:\u00a0[speaks in Waodani]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0[translating] I said, \"Look at that thing.\u00a0 Oooh, is that supposed to be me?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Did it bring a lot of memories for him, do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0In the tribe, they have an oral tradition.\u00a0 Mincaye doesn't read and write, so the time that we spend reading and writing and making notes, they lock it into their memory.\u00a0 Those memories have been alive for Mincaye since 1956.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And you were pictured in the movie as about a 7- or 8-year-old boy, is that accurate?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, there, all the way up to 45, I guess.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0That's true, yeah, we show, from your childhood.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Cute and young to old and scruffy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And we saw you with your aunt and with Aunt Betty, Elisabeth Elliott, going back into the jungle as a young boy.\u00a0 There had to be fear in the heart of a young boy to think, \"We're going back in here.\u00a0 These men killed my father.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, actually, not.\u00a0 Mart said \"adventure.\"\u00a0 It was an adventure.\u00a0 We had been praying as a family \u2013 my mom and dad prayed for these people, so I knew these people were special somehow.\u00a0 We were praying for them, then they killed my father, but my mom and Aunt Mary Lou and Aunt Barb and Aunt Betty and Aunt Olive, they didn't act like, \"Oh, this is a terrible, terrible calamity.\"\u00a0 Now, I could tell they were sad, but so I thought, \"Oh, these people are still special to us.\"\u00a0 And Aunt Rachel was living with Dayuma [ph], and Dayuma is from this tribe, and Dayuma was special, and, no, so I just \u2013 when the chance came to go in and meet them, when Aunt Rachel felt that the time had come that a male child related to my dad could come in without being killed \u2013 because I was a terrible threat to the tribe, because in their culture, they would have expected that when I grew up, I would have the right and the responsibility to avenge my father's death.\u00a0 When Aunt Rachel finally thought, after about a year that she'd been in there, they really understand that we walk a different trail and that we won't avenge, then she invited me to go in.\u00a0 I just couldn't wait.\u00a0 These people are so special to me, I expected them to come gather around me to see who I was, and that surprised me, because they didn't.\u00a0 They stood off and looked at me.\u00a0 I felt really self-conscious.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Were they afraid of you, do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0No, they didn't know what I was.\u00a0 I was as tall as some of the shorter adults at nine, or not much shorter than they were.\u00a0 But I didn't have any physical features of a man or a woman, and they didn't know what I was.\u00a0 And I had these strange things growing out of my head.\u00a0 They thought my glasses were actually part of my face, which is pretty scary to some of the kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0In 1999, when you and Mart had made contact about the possibility of doing this movie, you felt it was essential to get the okay of the tribe.\u00a0 Now, I'm not sure that was a legal requirement.\u00a0 In other words, I don't think they'd have come back and sued you for making the movie, but you felt it was necessary for the continuing work, for the integrity of the project, and you went in and asked for permission, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, Bob, people have been talking about making this story into a movie since I was a boy, but I knew that it was a big job.\u00a0 I didn't have any idea how big a job it was to do it, and \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Mart is shaking his head over here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0We all agree.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0He didn't have any idea how big \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0Neither one of us knew what he was getting into.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0It took huge creativity, a big team of people with specific talents and abilities, it took financial resources, but what Mart came asking me for was permission to do my story and for seven years I've been saying, \"This is not my story.\u00a0 I didn't write it.\u00a0 I had a front-row seat, and I had a repetitive part in it,\" but when he said, \"We want your permission,\" I said, \"Well, what is the story you want to tell,\" and when he told me that he wanted to tell this story, that millions of people have read of over the years, he said, \"But I want to tell it from the Waodani perspective.\"\u00a0 And I said, \"Well, it seems to me that you should ask the Waodani,\" and, really, I wanted in a nice way to say no, and so Mart said, instead of saying, \"Oh, we couldn't.\u00a0 I'm busy, can't do that.\"\u00a0 He said, \"How could we ask them?\"\u00a0 I said, \"Well, I'll take you down there.\u00a0 I'll lead you to them, and I'll translate for you.\"\u00a0 And I thought, \"That will be the end of this.\"\u00a0 And Mart got on his cell phone and some of the guys on his team, and they said, \"Okay, we've cleared our calendars.\u00a0 When do we go?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0It took Mincaye six days to get here, I'll bet it took you a while, Mart, to get down there.\u00a0 How much travel did it entail?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0We flew from here down to Quito and then Steve put us on a bus for several hours.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0I took in the bus; I went with you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all went together, and then we got on a bush plane for an hour, and then he stuck a backpack on us for six or seven hours, and then we got in a dugout canoe for four or five hours in the rain, and then we went to a hut that had 22 hammocks, and we checked into the Waodani Hotel.\u00a0 And it took us a couple, three days to get down there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And describe for us the meeting as you and Mart were together with the tribe, and you translated.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, first, we were just \u2013 we got there late in the afternoon, everybody was tired, everybody went to sleep, nobody knew how to sleep in a hammock, they didn't know where to get food.\u00a0 The next day we got together, and I said, \"Inyana [ph] people, my group,\" this is my extended family in the tribe that we were meeting with, and I said, \"These people want to make a video of your history.\u00a0 What do you say?\"\u00a0 And several of them smacked \"Bah, we say no.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, okay, we've come all that what Mart was just describing \u2013 all the way out here, and they say, \"No.\"\u00a0 And I said people \u2013 they said, \"How do you see it?\"\u00a0 I said, \"I see it \u2013 well, if you say no, I, too, say no.\u00a0 But well, if you would say yes, I, too, would say yes.\"\u00a0 And they said, \"Why?\" and I said, \"Well, people, do you know that foreigners, too, live angry and hating and furious,\" and I began to tell them what had happened at Columbine and at a couple of other schools, and when I described what happened at Columbine, Mincaye said, \"That's just how we used to live \u2013 hating and being furious, killing for no reason at all.\"\u00a0 And he said, \"I say yes.\u00a0 If those foreigners are living like we used to, then maybe if they see that we lived that way, and then they see look how we live now, happily and in peace, maybe they, too, can learn how to live in peace.\"\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then I thought, \"Well, now, wait a minute, the no was maybe a little bit premature but maybe this yes hasn't been completely thought through.\u00a0 So I said, \"People if they tell your history, they are going to show you like Aucas, like the people said that you were \u2013 naked, living like savages out here in the jungle.\"\u00a0 And Mincaye's wife, Ompoteh [ph], she said, \"Bah\" \u2013 and she whipped off her blouse, and she tore off her skirt, and she's just sitting there, almost naked, in the middle of the group.\u00a0 The whole group is trying to pretend like they didn't notice what was going on.\u00a0 She said, \"I say if they have to show us like we lived,\" \u2013 now, she didn't mean naked, she said, \"living hating and furious,\" but the nakedness was part of that culture, she said, then I say, \"Just tell them to show us like we were.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Mart, I have to ask you at that point what did you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0Well, it was exciting to know for the story \u2013 it was exciting to know that they understood and that they saw as a mission field in North America that their story, the power of a story, could help North America and they could give back to North America was just overwhelming at that point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0The irony is amazing, isn't it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0It's amazing.\u00a0 It's their turn to come back and help us now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And so, Steve, they went ahead and signed off on it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, they didn't sign off on it.\u00a0 If you noticed, Mincaye yesterday autographing stuff.\u00a0 He doesn't write, so he puts his thumb on an inkpad and gives a thumbprint so they may be printed off on it instead of signed off on it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0They said yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0We say yes, and then they asked me \u2013 I said, \"Well, there's details here that you all don't know how to deal with.\u00a0 They said, \"Bavay, we saying yes, you be the one to talk to them.\"\u00a0 So not for the whole tribe but for the clan that I'm part of, the people that killed my dad that were part of this story, they said, \"We say yes, and you talk to them about it.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Will there be a showing for them of this film?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0We took the documentary down there and showed it to them in the jungle, and then we hope to do a premier in Panama.\u00a0 The movie was shot in Panama, so we hope to bring some of the Waodani up to Panama so they'll get to see the film there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0They actually \u2013 Mart and team \u2013 actually showed the premier of the docudrama was done down in the jungles.\u00a0 The Waodani were the first ones with surround sound, speakers hung in the trees, the big screen leaned up against the long house.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Way to go, Mart.\u00a0 That's the way to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Did you have to take a generator?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMart:\u00a0I think it stopped eight or nine times, you know, the generators, you know, we were so disappointed but only because the document had them in it, so it was more powerful for them than the movie, because they have actors in that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Well, and they could understand a lot of the dialog.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And speaking of that, the movie is in subtitles.\u00a0 Is the language accurate?\u00a0 Could Mincaye watch last night and understand the language?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0No.\u00a0 It was authentic language, but the film couldn't be shot in Ecuador because the infrastructure was lacking.\u00a0 There was no place for the actors and crew and grips and all those people to stay out in the jungles, so it was shot in Panama in an area of jungle that the U.S. military used to use to train U.S. soldiers for jungle warfare.\u00a0 They had a big hospital.\u00a0 That hospital has been turned into a beautiful hotel, but you walk out of the hotel and, what, Mart, a quarter of a mile, and you're in jungle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And so because it was going to be shot in Panama, they chose a tribe of Indians in Panama, the Embera, to play the Waodani.\u00a0 And these people had a very similar background, but the people today, the Embera, are about three generations removed from living as hunter\/gatherers, so to make it authentic the film team asked me to bring a delegation of Waodani up from Ecuador to teach the Embera how to be Waodani.\u00a0 And that was a fascinating process.\u00a0 These people realized these Waodani live like our ancestors, now they're going to teach us, and it was just like, guys, we are going to school.\u00a0 They're going to teach us who we used to be, and they were fascinated by it, and they did an absolutely excellent job of portraying the Waodani.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I have to agree with you.\u00a0 Again, I don't know the tribe you're speaking of and how they behaved, but both Bob and I turned to teach other and said, \"How did they train that tribe to be able to act?\"\u00a0 I mean, because they became actors, actresses.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0You know what I think it was, I was there telling the Embera the story, and they kept asking me, \"What happened here and what happened here?\"\u00a0 And it wasn't so much, I don't think, that they learned to act.\u00a0 They understood the story, and so they got into the story, and so when the story called for fury, they were furious.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Well, and it's interesting, too, to compare how they present the story in the movie that folks are going to get a chance to see in theaters in a couple of weeks, with the documentary, \"Beyond the Gates of Splendor,\" that is now out on DVD.\u00a0 In fact, last summer I got the whole family together, and we watched this documentary together, and there were some points where I had to fill in a few of the details for my younger children who weren't as fully aware of the story, but the DVD, \"Beyond the Gates of Splendor,\" is a documentary about the martyrdom of these missionaries, and the movie that's coming out in a couple of weeks is a theatrical motion picture, and you get a chance, if you have both of them, to see the story told two different ways and from two different perspectives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0We've got copies of the DVD \"Beyond the Gates of Splendor\" in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 We also have copies of the companion book, Steve, that you've written called \"End of the Spear.\"\u00a0 If our listeners are interested in getting a copy of the DVD or the book, they can go to our website, FamilyLife.com and click the \"Go\" button at the bottom of the screen.\u00a0 That will take you right to a page where you've got more information about these resources and others that are available on this subject.\u00a0 In fact, if you buy the DVD and the book together, we'll send you the audio CD of our conversation this week with Steve Saint and Mart Green and Mincaye.\u00a0 We'll send that at no additional cost. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Again, the website, FamilyLife.com, click the \"Go\" button at the bottom of the screen or call us at 1-800-FLTODAY, that's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and someone on our team can let you know how you can get these resources sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Steve, I have to ask you one other question, because I know that you have experienced in the last couple of years, some personal tragedy, and God has used Mincaye to minister to you in the midst of that tragedy, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0Yes.\u00a0 God used Grandfather Mincaye to help me trust in the death of my \u2013 sudden and totally unexpected death of Ginny's and my only daughter who died after being gone and traveling around the world with a music group for a year, she came home, we had this incredible welcome home party, and in the middle of her welcome home party she had a massive cerebral hemorrhage and died.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0How old?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0She was 20 years and 20 days.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You had just gone back to pray for her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSteve:\u00a0She had a headache, and Ginny said, \"Hey, Steph's back in her room, and she wants you to pray for her.\"\u00a0 So I thought it was a conspiracy, you know, for Ginny and me to be with Stephanie alone, because we had\u00a0 other family and friends kept stopping by, and so Ginny sat on the bed and held Steph \u2013 Steph was much taller than Ginny, but she was holding her little girl, and I had my arms around her, and I said, \"Yes, God cares about headaches, too,\" and I prayed that God would take her headache away, and while I was praying she had this massive hemorrhage, and she made a funny sound, and I looked at her, and I saw her eyes roll up into her head, but I called 911, and they rushed to our house, and they ran in with a gurney, and they could realize that she was in deep trouble, and they put her on the gurney, and as they ran out, her head was flopping to the side and hitting the gurney, and it was my little girl, so I didn't have any idea what was happening.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, \"Well, she's just exhausted, she's dehydrated,\" so I ran out with them to hold Stephie's head, and so I jumped in the ambulance with them, but when we got down to the hospital and Grandfather came down, what he saw was these people he had never seen before, drove up to our house in this strange vehicle with lights all over it.\u00a0 They burst into our house, they didn't greet us or anything, they ran back to her, and they grabbed Stephanie, and they kidnapped her, and I'm sure it looked to him, this is like a spearing raid, only the foreigners are doing it.\u00a0 They've come in, and they've taken Stephanie.\u00a0 And he loved Stephanie.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So when he got down to the emergency room, he grabbed me, and he had this look on his face that I'd never seen, and he said, \"Bavay, Bavay, tell me\" \u2013 that's my tribal name \u2013 he said, \"Tell me who is doing this.\"\u00a0 And I realized he's ready to kill somebody to defend Stephanie, and he's a peaceful, fun-loving, I mean, wonderful man, but he knew how to kill people, and he hadn't forgotten that, and he said, \"These people are doing this terrible thing.\u00a0 You tell me who is doing this.\"\u00a0 And I said, [speaks Waodani], \"I don't know.\"\u00a0 My head was reeling.\u00a0 We were just five minutes before we were in the middle of this wonderful celebration that Stephanie had come back to us.\u00a0 I said, \"I don't know.\u00a0 Nobody is doing this.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And then he grabbed me, and he said, \"Bavay, now I see it well.\u00a0 Don't you understand?\u00a0 Wyngnongi is doing this.\u00a0 God Himself is doing this, taking Stephanie to live with Him.\"\u00a0 I thought, \"Mincaye, how can you say that God would do something like this?\"\u00a0 And then Mincaye started reaching out to the people in the emergency room.\u00a0 He said, \"People, people, don't you understand, being a God-follower, God Himself is taking Stephanie to live with Him.\"\u00a0 And he said, \"Look at me.\u00a0 I am an old man\" \u2013 of course, none of them could understand, and they were busy with different things that were going on, and they were rushing past us, and he actually was physically grabbing for them \u2013 \"Listen, listen to me.\"\u00a0 He said, \"Being an old man, pretty soon I, too, am going to die, and being a God-follower, I, too, am going to go Onatty [ph] and live with Wyngnongi.\"\u00a0 And he said, \"People, if you will just walk God's trail, then coming to God's place,\" Stephanie, Star, \"Nemoh\" he called her \u2013 \"Nemoh and I will be there happily waiting to greet you, and then we will live happily forever in God's place.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And I realized Mincaye's faith was real and that night he wrapped his arms of faith around me in the most devastating, awful, unbelievable circumstance of my life, ever.\u00a0 Mincaye helped me hang onto my faith, and I realized, you know, if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t_______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide 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