{"id":300831,"date":"2005-02-21T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2005-02-21T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/denial\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:42:00","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:42:00","slug":"denial","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/denial\/","title":{"rendered":"Denial"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Hear how a person can do more harm than good by refusing to acknowledge how ill a loved one really is.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2005-02-21.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"11.41M","filesize_raw":"11964816","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2847],"tags":[4280,4281],"podcast_series":[7358],"cwp_profile":[8939],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300831","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-death-and-dying","tag-death","tag-dying","podcast_series-sunsets-reflections-on-lifes-final-journey","cwp_profile-deborah-howard","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300831\/denial","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300831\/denial","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"IUXKfSCPGK\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/denial\/\">Denial<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/denial\/embed\/#?secret=IUXKfSCPGK\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Denial&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"IUXKfSCPGK\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2005-02-21.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2005-02-21.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0The Bible speaks to a subject that many of us don't like to think about \u2013 the subject of death and dying.\u00a0 Hospice nurse Deborah Howard says it's something we need to embrace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0I'm constantly amazed by the attitudes that Christians have about death and dying \u2013 \"Why is this happening to me?\"\u00a0 \"What did I do to deserve this?\"\u00a0 And when you get down to the bottom line about denial, what you're actually denying is the providence of God.\u00a0 God controls all things in the life of His children, and to deny His providence is a very dangerous place for us to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, February 21st.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will visit together the house of mourning today and see if we can experience there the goodness of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Monday edition.\u00a0 Dennis?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Bob, as you'll recall, my mom got her graduation certificate back in March of 2003.\u00a0 She graduated from earth and from life as we all see it to something that is beyond description.\u00a0 She moved on to heaven and passed away.\u00a0 But in the process of her dying, which took about two years \u2013 she died of Alzheimer's disease and going through that process was really fascinating for me, because I had not been that close to death on an ongoing basis, moving toward it a step at a time, very slowly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Your father had died years ago, but he died suddenly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0He died in 10 minutes, there were no goodbyes.\u00a0 I just got the phone call saying Dad had died of a massive heart attack, and he was gone.\u00a0 But with Mom, her death literally took over two years, and as we went through that process I ran across a quote by Billy Graham that I think is pertinent here.\u00a0 He said this \u2013 \"If we're in a battle with this enemy called Death, I believe we should learn about it in order to know how to confront the dying experience.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, I really agree with that, but he goes on to say this \u2013 \"We need to know how to face that enemy on our behalf and how to deal with the inevitable death of loved ones and friends.\"\u00a0 And you'll recall, Bob, as I came back from my mom's funeral and memorial service, I came back with a burden just about the whole dying process that we all needed to be better equipped both biblically, emotionally, and factually to better understand this process of dying.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And I said I want to find someone who works in hospice that we can talk to about this subject and help our listening audience know better how to cope with death.\u00a0 And so you actually go to church with our guest, Deborah Howard, who joins us on FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 Deborah, welcome to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Thank you, Dennis, it's a pleasure to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Now, I understand you actually sit under the teaching of a great Bible scholar at the church you attend.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0He is very awesome and, yes, he is a tremendous Bible scholar.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0She's talking about our pastor and, I would agree, he is, he's a great Bible scholar.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Actually, it's your Sunday school class that she goes to, don't give me that baloney \u2013 what are you teaching, Bob?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Well, we've been going through Isaiah, haven't we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Yes, we have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And it's taken us a little while, because Isaiah had a lot to say, but it's been a fun study to go through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, it was fun, I thought, when Bob came in and said, \"I think I have the person for us to talk to on FamilyLife Today about the whole subject of death and dying.\"\u00a0 He said that Deborah had written a book or was in the process at that time, I guess, of writing a book called \"Sunsets - Reflections for Life's Final Journey,\" and it's been your ministry, really, as a hospice nurse and caregiver over the past \u2013 nearly a decade \u2013 that has enabled you to write this book.\u00a0 And I asked you earlier, before we came into the studio, how many you had watched die.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0My answer was, conservatively speaking, I would say it's numbered in the hundreds \u2013 close to 1,000, maybe.\u00a0 But each one of them has some similarities, and each one of them is different.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0When my mom died, I realized I had really not been that close to a person who actually walked up to death's door and then stepped through it.\u00a0 I had no experience.\u00a0 Is that true of most people who come to this subject?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Yes, and most people have an aversion to that subject.\u00a0 You even mention death and dying to them, and it's like they start backing up.\u00a0 They don't want to really address the issues until they have to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0They actually move into something you talk about in your book \u2013 they move toward denial.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Right.\u00a0 Denial is one of the major obstacles that I run into when dealing with family members who are losing a loved one to death.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Is it the person who is dying who is in denial?\u00a0 Is it the family and friends around?\u00a0 Is it all of us who kind of lapse into denial?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0It's human nature to first \u2013 when we are confronted with something that's shocking to our system, shocking to our emotions, we want to say, \"No, it's not true.\"\u00a0 That may be our first impulse.\u00a0 But how long we stay in that state is a totally different matter.\u00a0 Some people will, very quickly, move into a place of reality where they are able to actually constructively deal with the issues and move on.\u00a0 And others are trapped in a state of denial, and that's one of the responsibilities that the hospice team has \u2013 is to help people move beyond that stage so that they can actually be a part of the solution and not a part of the problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You mean if they stay in denial, they're going to be part of the problem?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0They keep the process from moving forward by refusing to look at the reality of the circumstances, they are actually holding people back from the benefits that they could actually experience in the dying process.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0So you're saying if we're going to face death, we can't deny the fact that it's coming.\u00a0 We have to get on with admitting this death is going to become a reality.\u00a0 We need to process this.\u00a0 We need to help our loved one process it, and yet if we move into denial we short-circuit the whole process.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0That's right.\u00a0 And many times you're keeping your loved one from receiving the benefits that they could have.\u00a0 I've seen some people, for instance, who have a loved one who has been told that they are dying, and their doctor has made a recommendation for hospice.\u00a0 When I go talk to them about hospice, they tell me they do not need it yet; they are not to that place yet, when, obviously, after an examination of the patient, I know that patient meets our criteria for hospice, and yet they're denied the services because the family is not ready to accept it yet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But you understand how, for a family member to say, \"Okay, I'm ready for hospice,\" it feels like you're saying, \"We're giving up on fighting any disease.\u00a0 We're giving up hope that life might still be a possibility here.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Right, but there is a real difference between giving up and letting go, and I think that difference is that with one it's like a defeat and with the other it's like a cooperation.\u00a0 You cooperate with what's happening with what God has brought into your life, and you let go and trust your loved one to God for those who are Christians.\u00a0 And you asked a question a while ago about whether it's mostly the family members or the patients themselves, and what I've found is that the patient usually will come to grips with what's happening with them much sooner than the family members.\u00a0 The family members will hang back and say, \"No, no, no, that's not the case.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn several cases, I have been visiting a patient, and the patient says to me, \"I know I'm not going to be around much longer.\u00a0 I know that I'm going to die soon.\"\u00a0 And a well-meaning family member and, for some reason, it's usually a woman, will stand up and say, \"Now, don't you talk like that.\u00a0 I don't want to hear anything else like that.\u00a0 We have to be positive.\u00a0 Now, that's not going to happen, and we're going to keep a positive frame of mind.\"\u00a0 And many times that patient will look at me, I will look at him, we will make eye contact, and he knows that I know, and I think he finds comfort in that.\u00a0 But, in most cases, they are too weak to argue, so they just let it go.\u00a0 And, to me, that family member has just missed a very valuable opportunity to share an intimate time in that patient's life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0So getting past the hurdle of denial actually makes the rest of the journey toward death, if that's where you're ultimately going, it makes that journey a more comfortable journey for everybody.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0In most cases, I would say that is true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I've never quite thought of denial in this way, but just hearing you describe it, for me to be in denial, for instance, about my mom's process of dying, is selfish.\u00a0 I'm keeping a relationship from her to enter into a process of something she's experiencing that she doesn't need to experience alone.\u00a0 She needs people who love her, who have got a context for her life, to go through that with her and, you know, as much as I could talk to my mom, because she had Alzheimer's disease, I would interact with her about this, and I said, \"You know, Mom, you don't really have anything left to do.\"\u00a0 She kept saying, \"What do I need to do?\"\u00a0 She was always a doer.\u00a0 And I said, \"Mom, you really don't have anything left to do.\u00a0 You just need to feel free to go home.\u00a0 You need to feel free to go on home and go to heaven.\u00a0 It's okay.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0That's a great gift you gave her.\u00a0 In the hospice business, we call that \"giving permission.\"\u00a0 And there are a lot of families who are never able to come to that point.\u00a0 That is a very important point to reach, not only for the patient, because you've just freed them, you've just told them it's okay.\u00a0 If you need to go, you go \u2013 but also for the families, because it helps them to find the acceptance that they need to embrace the death and not fight against it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Deborah, one of the things you talk about in your book that I really liked was you had a number of real-life situations that you walked into.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Right, the case studies.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0The case studies.\u00a0 Share one illustration of what we're talking about here of just how you cared for a person and walked them through the process and a little bit of their story of how they died.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Is there a particular case study that comes to mind?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Yes.\u00a0 Actually, these are two of my dear friends now, but we received a call from a man saying that his mother was dying and that a doctor had recommended hospice to him, and he wanted somebody to come and talk to them about it.\u00a0 I went to them, and I was so surprised when I got there, because these kids who were taking care of their mother, it turns out to be in their late 70s.\u00a0 The mother was in her late 90s.\u00a0 And the brother and sister were living in her house, and they were taking care of her.\u00a0 All of their efforts were devoted to taking care of this woman, and they were both exhausted, absolutely exhausted.\u00a0 If I ever saw anybody who needed hospice, it was these two precious people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I sat down with them, and I said to the man, \"What do you know about hospice?\"\u00a0 And he raised up and, with a very defiant look on his face, he said, \"I know enough that the very word is objectionable to me.\u00a0 We are not at that place, and I am only doing this at the recommendation of my doctor.\"\u00a0 The sister got up and stormed out of the room in tears.\u00a0 She could not even discuss the topic of hospice.\u00a0 I knew that he was not where he needed to be to embrace the hospice philosophy yet.\u00a0 He was not at a place where he was ready to let his mother go, and to accept the help that we had to offer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So I sort of surprised him.\u00a0 I said to him, \"You know, I don't think you and your sister are really appropriate for the hospice program right now.\u00a0 I think your mother is appropriate for hospice care, but I don't think that you and your sister are where you need to be in order to embrace the care that we could provide for her.\u00a0 But let me just tell you a little bit about hospice, because I think the day will come when you will be ready for that.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Well, you could just see the tension go out of his shoulders as he relaxed and said, \"Well, okay, for future reference, I'll go ahead and find out about it.\"\u00a0 So I just told him about hospice, and I didn't, at all, try to get him to sign any papers or make any decisions.\u00a0 I just said, \"I know that down the road you're going to be ready for this information, and I want you to make a decision based on knowledge \u2013 true, accurate knowledge of the hospice program,\" because he was obviously suffering under preconceived ideas that were not based on truth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So I just left him that day, and I gave him a hug when I left, and I said, \"You call us when you're ready.\"\u00a0 And I left, and I called the office, and I told them there's no way these people are ready for hospice now.\u00a0 I said, \"This lady really needs it, but the family is just not appropriate.\"\u00a0 So in about an hour I got a phone call from the office.\u00a0 They said that the man had called back and that already he had decided that he was ready; that hospice was right for them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You're getting emotional right now.\u00a0 Why is that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0The memory is very sweet.\u00a0 I know, especially now that I know him, as well, I know how much it took for him to make that phone call, and so I was so proud of him, I was just so proud of him for responding so quickly, and he realized that he was denying his mother help because of his own attitudes.\u00a0 And he called me back, and I went out there.\u00a0 We had a long talk, and I admitted her as a patient, and we had a short hospice association, but I would start calling them \"the kids,\" even though they were in their late 70s, because I was expecting two young people taking care of their mother.\u00a0 And even, to this day, I'll call them, \"I\u2019m going to go over and see the kids,\" and we've maintained a friendship over the years since then.\u00a0 We still write.\u00a0 We still see each other, we call each other, and I consider them part of my extended family now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But that was one case where, fortunately, he did not let his preconceived notions interfere with the care that his mother eventually got.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0In this case, Dennis, I think it was the education, it was knowing a little bit more about what hospice is and what was ahead, and that helped get him past some of the denial.\u00a0 Sometimes the denial is just because we're afraid of the unknown.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0And when you get down to the bottom line about denial, what you're actually denying is the providence of God, and God controls all things in the life of His children, and to deny His providence is a very dangerous place for us to be.\u00a0 In fact, I'm constantly amazed by the attitudes that Christians have about death and dying.\u00a0 Some of them act as though they should be somehow exempt from these things, and they're totally surprised by it when it happens.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I hear, \"Why is this happening to me?\"\u00a0 \"What did I do to deserve this?\"\u00a0 As if by being a Christian you are immune from those kinds of tragedies in your life.\u00a0 But, really, we're told all throughout the Scriptures that God arranges our lives; that He determines our days.\u00a0 We are told that He is our master designer, and to deny His sovereign control over our lives is unwise and can get into the area of sinful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You and I were at a funeral recently for our friend, 43 years old, he had died \u2013 left a widow and five children.\u00a0 His mother was at the funeral service, and her testimony \u2013 \"God is good.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Right there, as we stood beside a silvery casket, she was saying, \"God is good all the time.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You look at the circumstances, and you would say, \"These don't look like good God circumstances,\" because, in our view of things, we go, \"Where is the good in this?\"\u00a0 But she, by faith, was accepting the providence of God that you're talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, either God's in charge 100 percent or He's not in charge at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And if you try to go to a funeral or approach death with the concept that God's not in charge and therefore is not God, I'm going to tell you, that creates a much bigger problem and a dilemma as you think about giving someone who is in the process of dying peace and comfort.\u00a0 If God is, indeed, who He claims to be \u2013 and He is \u2013 then the comfort of His sovereign control can bring peace to those who are in the process of dying.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0One familiar verse in Ecclesiastes says, \"There is a time that we are born, and there is a time to die,\" and all throughout the Scriptures we are told that God controls these things; that our deaths, our illness \u2013 these are not outside of God's control.\u00a0 One verse that I use a lot with my patients in counseling with them is found in Psalm 139.\u00a0 In verse 16 it says, \"All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be.\"\u00a0 Now that, to me, says you die when you're supposed to die.\u00a0 You're not going to die \u2013 there's nothing the family can do to have the patient lives longer than that, or there's nothing that they can do that's going to shorten their life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And it doesn't mean that there's not going to be sorrow or difficult circumstances or that we're not going to grieve the loss of a friend who goes beyond.\u00a0 We can acknowledge the goodness of God and still go through the catharsis of human emotion as we say goodbye to a friend and a loved one who has been a companion for years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Like you and I did recently with our friend, J.T. Walker.\u00a0 He passed over.\u00a0 He passed over from life as we see it and life as we know it here on this side of eternity through a door and a gate called \"death,\" to an entirely different realm called \"heaven,\" and the presence of God.\u00a0 And, you know, that hope that is brought to us by the person of Jesus Christ, who came to die for our sins so that we might pass through death, and it might only just be a sting.\u00a0 It's just a little prick.\u00a0 That, to me, is the hope of Christianity and of the Bible and is the hope that God offers to each person who will trust in Him and believe Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0I think there are probably a lot of listeners who, like you, Dennis, have not had the direct experience.\u00a0 Maybe they've never seen someone die.\u00a0 Maybe they've never been a part of an extended process of watching somebody walk up to death's door.\u00a0 And a book like the one that Deborah has written is a roadmap, it's a guidebook that can help you if you're headed in that direction.\u00a0 If you know someone who is on that path \u2013 a friend, a loved on, this kind of book is going to be helpful to both the person who is on the journey himself and to those who are walking alongside that person on the path.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe've got copies of the book available in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 The book is called \"Sunsets - Reflections for Life's Final Journey,\" and you can get more information on our website at FamilyLife.com or you can call 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY to request a copy.\u00a0 If you go to the website, down at the bottom of the screen there will be a little button that says, \"Go,\" and you can click on that button.\u00a0 It will take you right to the page where you can get more information about Deborah's book.\u00a0 You can order it online, if you'd like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere's also information about another resource that our team has put together called \"Encouragement for Broken-Hearted Homes.\"\u00a0 This is a book that you can pass on to someone who is going through a process of grieving \u2013 either before a loved one dies or after the death of a loved one.\u00a0 And if you were to order both books together we can send you at no additional cost either the CDs or the cassettes of our conversation this week with Deborah Howard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, go to our website, FamilyLife.com to request these resources, or give us a call at 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and someone on our team can help you get these resources sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe received an e-mail from one of our Legacy Partners recently who wrote to say that her husband had just returned home recently after serving in Qatar for a year, and she said, \"We are grateful to have Daddy home safe and sound, proud that he has served our country in this way,\" and it made me imagine the scene, in my own mind, of Daddy coming home after a year's worth of service overseas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe readjustment can be a challenge for some married couples.\u00a0 Programs like FamilyLife Today are here to try to provide practical, biblical counsel during some of those difficult periods that all of us go through in our lives, and we appreciate this couple for standing with us as a Legacy Partner, helping to support this ministry each month, and we're happy to be able to provide, again, that kind of practical, biblical help to strengthen marriages and families day in and day out through this radio program and through all of the ministries of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you'd like to find out more about becoming a Legacy Partner, there's information on our website at FamilyLife.com, and let me say a word of thanks to all of you who are Legacy Partners or to those of you who donate as you can from time to time.\u00a0 We appreciate your financial support.\u00a0 We're listener-supported, and it's those contributions that keep FamilyLife Today on the air in this city and in cities all across the country.\u00a0 So we really appreciate you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, tomorrow, we're going to hopefully dispel some of the myths that I think all of us have when it comes to this subject of hospice care or someone who is facing a terminal illness.\u00a0 We'll challenge some of that thinking on tomorrow's program.\u00a0 I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t_______________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would\u00a0\u00a0 you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/site\/c.dnJHKLNnFoG\/b.3782043\/k.384D\/Support_Us.htm\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 FamilyLife.\u00a0 All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/www.FamilyLife.com\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 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how a person can do more harm than good by refusing to acknowledge how ill a loved one really is.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2005-02-21.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0The Bible speaks to a subject that many of us don't like to think about \u2013 the subject of death and dying.\u00a0 Hospice nurse Deborah Howard says it's something we need to embrace.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0I'm constantly amazed by the attitudes that Christians have about death and dying \u2013 \"Why is this happening to me?\"\u00a0 \"What did I do to deserve this?\"\u00a0 And when you get down to the bottom line about denial, what you're actually denying is the providence of God.\u00a0 God controls all things in the life of His children, and to deny His providence is a very dangerous place for us to be.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, February 21st.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We will visit together the house of mourning today and see if we can experience there the goodness of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Monday edition.\u00a0 Dennis?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Bob, as you'll recall, my mom got her graduation certificate back in March of 2003.\u00a0 She graduated from earth and from life as we all see it to something that is beyond description.\u00a0 She moved on to heaven and passed away.\u00a0 But in the process of her dying, which took about two years \u2013 she died of Alzheimer's disease and going through that process was really fascinating for me, because I had not been that close to death on an ongoing basis, moving toward it a step at a time, very slowly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Your father had died years ago, but he died suddenly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0He died in 10 minutes, there were no goodbyes.\u00a0 I just got the phone call saying Dad had died of a massive heart attack, and he was gone.\u00a0 But with Mom, her death literally took over two years, and as we went through that process I ran across a quote by Billy Graham that I think is pertinent here.\u00a0 He said this \u2013 \"If we're in a battle with this enemy called Death, I believe we should learn about it in order to know how to confront the dying experience.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Now, I really agree with that, but he goes on to say this \u2013 \"We need to know how to face that enemy on our behalf and how to deal with the inevitable death of loved ones and friends.\"\u00a0 And you'll recall, Bob, as I came back from my mom's funeral and memorial service, I came back with a burden just about the whole dying process that we all needed to be better equipped both biblically, emotionally, and factually to better understand this process of dying.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And I said I want to find someone who works in hospice that we can talk to about this subject and help our listening audience know better how to cope with death.\u00a0 And so you actually go to church with our guest, Deborah Howard, who joins us on FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 Deborah, welcome to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Thank you, Dennis, it's a pleasure to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Now, I understand you actually sit under the teaching of a great Bible scholar at the church you attend.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0He is very awesome and, yes, he is a tremendous Bible scholar.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0She's talking about our pastor and, I would agree, he is, he's a great Bible scholar.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Actually, it's your Sunday school class that she goes to, don't give me that baloney \u2013 what are you teaching, Bob?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Well, we've been going through Isaiah, haven't we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Yes, we have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And it's taken us a little while, because Isaiah had a lot to say, but it's been a fun study to go through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, it was fun, I thought, when Bob came in and said, \"I think I have the person for us to talk to on FamilyLife Today about the whole subject of death and dying.\"\u00a0 He said that Deborah had written a book or was in the process at that time, I guess, of writing a book called \"Sunsets - Reflections for Life's Final Journey,\" and it's been your ministry, really, as a hospice nurse and caregiver over the past \u2013 nearly a decade \u2013 that has enabled you to write this book.\u00a0 And I asked you earlier, before we came into the studio, how many you had watched die.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0My answer was, conservatively speaking, I would say it's numbered in the hundreds \u2013 close to 1,000, maybe.\u00a0 But each one of them has some similarities, and each one of them is different.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0When my mom died, I realized I had really not been that close to a person who actually walked up to death's door and then stepped through it.\u00a0 I had no experience.\u00a0 Is that true of most people who come to this subject?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Yes, and most people have an aversion to that subject.\u00a0 You even mention death and dying to them, and it's like they start backing up.\u00a0 They don't want to really address the issues until they have to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0They actually move into something you talk about in your book \u2013 they move toward denial.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Right.\u00a0 Denial is one of the major obstacles that I run into when dealing with family members who are losing a loved one to death.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Is it the person who is dying who is in denial?\u00a0 Is it the family and friends around?\u00a0 Is it all of us who kind of lapse into denial?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0It's human nature to first \u2013 when we are confronted with something that's shocking to our system, shocking to our emotions, we want to say, \"No, it's not true.\"\u00a0 That may be our first impulse.\u00a0 But how long we stay in that state is a totally different matter.\u00a0 Some people will, very quickly, move into a place of reality where they are able to actually constructively deal with the issues and move on.\u00a0 And others are trapped in a state of denial, and that's one of the responsibilities that the hospice team has \u2013 is to help people move beyond that stage so that they can actually be a part of the solution and not a part of the problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You mean if they stay in denial, they're going to be part of the problem?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0They keep the process from moving forward by refusing to look at the reality of the circumstances, they are actually holding people back from the benefits that they could actually experience in the dying process.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0So you're saying if we're going to face death, we can't deny the fact that it's coming.\u00a0 We have to get on with admitting this death is going to become a reality.\u00a0 We need to process this.\u00a0 We need to help our loved one process it, and yet if we move into denial we short-circuit the whole process.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0That's right.\u00a0 And many times you're keeping your loved one from receiving the benefits that they could have.\u00a0 I've seen some people, for instance, who have a loved one who has been told that they are dying, and their doctor has made a recommendation for hospice.\u00a0 When I go talk to them about hospice, they tell me they do not need it yet; they are not to that place yet, when, obviously, after an examination of the patient, I know that patient meets our criteria for hospice, and yet they're denied the services because the family is not ready to accept it yet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But you understand how, for a family member to say, \"Okay, I'm ready for hospice,\" it feels like you're saying, \"We're giving up on fighting any disease.\u00a0 We're giving up hope that life might still be a possibility here.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Right, but there is a real difference between giving up and letting go, and I think that difference is that with one it's like a defeat and with the other it's like a cooperation.\u00a0 You cooperate with what's happening with what God has brought into your life, and you let go and trust your loved one to God for those who are Christians.\u00a0 And you asked a question a while ago about whether it's mostly the family members or the patients themselves, and what I've found is that the patient usually will come to grips with what's happening with them much sooner than the family members.\u00a0 The family members will hang back and say, \"No, no, no, that's not the case.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn several cases, I have been visiting a patient, and the patient says to me, \"I know I'm not going to be around much longer.\u00a0 I know that I'm going to die soon.\"\u00a0 And a well-meaning family member and, for some reason, it's usually a woman, will stand up and say, \"Now, don't you talk like that.\u00a0 I don't want to hear anything else like that.\u00a0 We have to be positive.\u00a0 Now, that's not going to happen, and we're going to keep a positive frame of mind.\"\u00a0 And many times that patient will look at me, I will look at him, we will make eye contact, and he knows that I know, and I think he finds comfort in that.\u00a0 But, in most cases, they are too weak to argue, so they just let it go.\u00a0 And, to me, that family member has just missed a very valuable opportunity to share an intimate time in that patient's life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0So getting past the hurdle of denial actually makes the rest of the journey toward death, if that's where you're ultimately going, it makes that journey a more comfortable journey for everybody.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0In most cases, I would say that is true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0I've never quite thought of denial in this way, but just hearing you describe it, for me to be in denial, for instance, about my mom's process of dying, is selfish.\u00a0 I'm keeping a relationship from her to enter into a process of something she's experiencing that she doesn't need to experience alone.\u00a0 She needs people who love her, who have got a context for her life, to go through that with her and, you know, as much as I could talk to my mom, because she had Alzheimer's disease, I would interact with her about this, and I said, \"You know, Mom, you don't really have anything left to do.\"\u00a0 She kept saying, \"What do I need to do?\"\u00a0 She was always a doer.\u00a0 And I said, \"Mom, you really don't have anything left to do.\u00a0 You just need to feel free to go home.\u00a0 You need to feel free to go on home and go to heaven.\u00a0 It's okay.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0That's a great gift you gave her.\u00a0 In the hospice business, we call that \"giving permission.\"\u00a0 And there are a lot of families who are never able to come to that point.\u00a0 That is a very important point to reach, not only for the patient, because you've just freed them, you've just told them it's okay.\u00a0 If you need to go, you go \u2013 but also for the families, because it helps them to find the acceptance that they need to embrace the death and not fight against it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Deborah, one of the things you talk about in your book that I really liked was you had a number of real-life situations that you walked into.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Right, the case studies.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0The case studies.\u00a0 Share one illustration of what we're talking about here of just how you cared for a person and walked them through the process and a little bit of their story of how they died.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Is there a particular case study that comes to mind?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0Yes.\u00a0 Actually, these are two of my dear friends now, but we received a call from a man saying that his mother was dying and that a doctor had recommended hospice to him, and he wanted somebody to come and talk to them about it.\u00a0 I went to them, and I was so surprised when I got there, because these kids who were taking care of their mother, it turns out to be in their late 70s.\u00a0 The mother was in her late 90s.\u00a0 And the brother and sister were living in her house, and they were taking care of her.\u00a0 All of their efforts were devoted to taking care of this woman, and they were both exhausted, absolutely exhausted.\u00a0 If I ever saw anybody who needed hospice, it was these two precious people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I sat down with them, and I said to the man, \"What do you know about hospice?\"\u00a0 And he raised up and, with a very defiant look on his face, he said, \"I know enough that the very word is objectionable to me.\u00a0 We are not at that place, and I am only doing this at the recommendation of my doctor.\"\u00a0 The sister got up and stormed out of the room in tears.\u00a0 She could not even discuss the topic of hospice.\u00a0 I knew that he was not where he needed to be to embrace the hospice philosophy yet.\u00a0 He was not at a place where he was ready to let his mother go, and to accept the help that we had to offer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So I sort of surprised him.\u00a0 I said to him, \"You know, I don't think you and your sister are really appropriate for the hospice program right now.\u00a0 I think your mother is appropriate for hospice care, but I don't think that you and your sister are where you need to be in order to embrace the care that we could provide for her.\u00a0 But let me just tell you a little bit about hospice, because I think the day will come when you will be ready for that.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Well, you could just see the tension go out of his shoulders as he relaxed and said, \"Well, okay, for future reference, I'll go ahead and find out about it.\"\u00a0 So I just told him about hospice, and I didn't, at all, try to get him to sign any papers or make any decisions.\u00a0 I just said, \"I know that down the road you're going to be ready for this information, and I want you to make a decision based on knowledge \u2013 true, accurate knowledge of the hospice program,\" because he was obviously suffering under preconceived ideas that were not based on truth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So I just left him that day, and I gave him a hug when I left, and I said, \"You call us when you're ready.\"\u00a0 And I left, and I called the office, and I told them there's no way these people are ready for hospice now.\u00a0 I said, \"This lady really needs it, but the family is just not appropriate.\"\u00a0 So in about an hour I got a phone call from the office.\u00a0 They said that the man had called back and that already he had decided that he was ready; that hospice was right for them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You're getting emotional right now.\u00a0 Why is that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0The memory is very sweet.\u00a0 I know, especially now that I know him, as well, I know how much it took for him to make that phone call, and so I was so proud of him, I was just so proud of him for responding so quickly, and he realized that he was denying his mother help because of his own attitudes.\u00a0 And he called me back, and I went out there.\u00a0 We had a long talk, and I admitted her as a patient, and we had a short hospice association, but I would start calling them \"the kids,\" even though they were in their late 70s, because I was expecting two young people taking care of their mother.\u00a0 And even, to this day, I'll call them, \"I\u2019m going to go over and see the kids,\" and we've maintained a friendship over the years since then.\u00a0 We still write.\u00a0 We still see each other, we call each other, and I consider them part of my extended family now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But that was one case where, fortunately, he did not let his preconceived notions interfere with the care that his mother eventually got.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0In this case, Dennis, I think it was the education, it was knowing a little bit more about what hospice is and what was ahead, and that helped get him past some of the denial.\u00a0 Sometimes the denial is just because we're afraid of the unknown.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0And when you get down to the bottom line about denial, what you're actually denying is the providence of God, and God controls all things in the life of His children, and to deny His providence is a very dangerous place for us to be.\u00a0 In fact, I'm constantly amazed by the attitudes that Christians have about death and dying.\u00a0 Some of them act as though they should be somehow exempt from these things, and they're totally surprised by it when it happens.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I hear, \"Why is this happening to me?\"\u00a0 \"What did I do to deserve this?\"\u00a0 As if by being a Christian you are immune from those kinds of tragedies in your life.\u00a0 But, really, we're told all throughout the Scriptures that God arranges our lives; that He determines our days.\u00a0 We are told that He is our master designer, and to deny His sovereign control over our lives is unwise and can get into the area of sinful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You and I were at a funeral recently for our friend, 43 years old, he had died \u2013 left a widow and five children.\u00a0 His mother was at the funeral service, and her testimony \u2013 \"God is good.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Right there, as we stood beside a silvery casket, she was saying, \"God is good all the time.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You look at the circumstances, and you would say, \"These don't look like good God circumstances,\" because, in our view of things, we go, \"Where is the good in this?\"\u00a0 But she, by faith, was accepting the providence of God that you're talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, either God's in charge 100 percent or He's not in charge at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0That's right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And if you try to go to a funeral or approach death with the concept that God's not in charge and therefore is not God, I'm going to tell you, that creates a much bigger problem and a dilemma as you think about giving someone who is in the process of dying peace and comfort.\u00a0 If God is, indeed, who He claims to be \u2013 and He is \u2013 then the comfort of His sovereign control can bring peace to those who are in the process of dying.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDeborah:\u00a0One familiar verse in Ecclesiastes says, \"There is a time that we are born, and there is a time to die,\" and all throughout the Scriptures we are told that God controls these things; that our deaths, our illness \u2013 these are not outside of God's control.\u00a0 One verse that I use a lot with my patients in counseling with them is found in Psalm 139.\u00a0 In verse 16 it says, \"All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be.\"\u00a0 Now that, to me, says you die when you're supposed to die.\u00a0 You're not going to die \u2013 there's nothing the family can do to have the patient lives longer than that, or there's nothing that they can do that's going to shorten their life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And it doesn't mean that there's not going to be sorrow or difficult circumstances or that we're not going to grieve the loss of a friend who goes beyond.\u00a0 We can acknowledge the goodness of God and still go through the catharsis of human emotion as we say goodbye to a friend and a loved one who has been a companion for years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Like you and I did recently with our friend, J.T. Walker.\u00a0 He passed over.\u00a0 He passed over from life as we see it and life as we know it here on this side of eternity through a door and a gate called \"death,\" to an entirely different realm called \"heaven,\" and the presence of God.\u00a0 And, you know, that hope that is brought to us by the person of Jesus Christ, who came to die for our sins so that we might pass through death, and it might only just be a sting.\u00a0 It's just a little prick.\u00a0 That, to me, is the hope of Christianity and of the Bible and is the hope that God offers to each person who will trust in Him and believe Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0I think there are probably a lot of listeners who, like you, Dennis, have not had the direct experience.\u00a0 Maybe they've never seen someone die.\u00a0 Maybe they've never been a part of an extended process of watching somebody walk up to death's door.\u00a0 And a book like the one that Deborah has written is a roadmap, it's a guidebook that can help you if you're headed in that direction.\u00a0 If you know someone who is on that path \u2013 a friend, a loved on, this kind of book is going to be helpful to both the person who is on the journey himself and to those who are walking alongside that person on the path.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe've got copies of the book available in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 The book is called \"Sunsets - Reflections for Life's Final Journey,\" and you can get more information on our website at FamilyLife.com or you can call 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY to request a copy.\u00a0 If you go to the website, down at the bottom of the screen there will be a little button that says, \"Go,\" and you can click on that button.\u00a0 It will take you right to the page where you can get more information about Deborah's book.\u00a0 You can order it online, if you'd like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere's also information about another resource that our team has put together called \"Encouragement for Broken-Hearted Homes.\"\u00a0 This is a book that you can pass on to someone who is going through a process of grieving \u2013 either before a loved one dies or after the death of a loved one.\u00a0 And if you were to order both books together we can send you at no additional cost either the CDs or the cassettes of our conversation this week with Deborah Howard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, go to our website, FamilyLife.com to request these resources, or give us a call at 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY, and someone on our team can help you get these resources sent to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe received an e-mail from one of our Legacy Partners recently who wrote to say that her husband had just returned home recently after serving in Qatar for a year, and she said, \"We are grateful to have Daddy home safe and sound, proud that he has served our country in this way,\" and it made me imagine the scene, in my own mind, of Daddy coming home after a year's worth of service overseas.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe readjustment can be a challenge for some married couples.\u00a0 Programs like FamilyLife Today are here to try to provide practical, biblical counsel during some of those difficult periods that all of us go through in our lives, and we appreciate this couple for standing with us as a Legacy Partner, helping to support this ministry each month, and we're happy to be able to provide, again, that kind of practical, biblical help to strengthen marriages and families day in and day out through this radio program and through all of the ministries of FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you'd like to find out more about becoming a Legacy Partner, there's information on our website at FamilyLife.com, and let me say a word of thanks to all of you who are Legacy Partners or to those of you who donate as you can from time to time.\u00a0 We appreciate your financial support.\u00a0 We're listener-supported, and it's those contributions that keep FamilyLife Today on the air in this city and in cities all across the country.\u00a0 So we really appreciate you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, tomorrow, we're going to hopefully dispel some of the myths that I think all of us have when it comes to this subject of hospice care or someone who is facing a terminal illness.\u00a0 We'll challenge some of that thinking on tomorrow's program.\u00a0 I hope you can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. 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