{"id":300646,"date":"2004-06-24T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2004-06-24T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-root-of-domestic-violence\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:48","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:48","slug":"the-root-of-domestic-violence","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-root-of-domestic-violence\/","title":{"rendered":"The Root of Domestic Violence"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Nancy Murphy talks about the cycle of abuse many women endure and the fear and anger that often triggers the violence.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2004-06-24.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"11.41M","filesize_raw":"11967741","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2860],"tags":[2949,4393],"podcast_series":[7313],"cwp_profile":[3437,8896],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300646","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-hardship-and-suffering","tag-abuse","tag-domestic-abuse","podcast_series-finding-freedom-from-domestic-abuse","cwp_profile-dan-allender","cwp_profile-nancy-murphy","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300646\/the-root-of-domestic-violence","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300646\/the-root-of-domestic-violence","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"LFOjgHUAWT\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-root-of-domestic-violence\/\">The Root of Domestic Violence<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-root-of-domestic-violence\/embed\/#?secret=LFOjgHUAWT\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Root of Domestic Violence&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"LFOjgHUAWT\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Nancy Murphy talks about the cycle of abuse many women endure and the fear and anger that often triggers the violence.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2004-06-24.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\u00ad\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Nancy Murphy was physically abused by her husband on the third day of her honeymoon.\u00a0 Why wouldn't a woman who experiences that kind of abuse simply step forward and tell someone?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0I can't remember when it happened next, but he began with threats, like, \"If you tell anybody, I'll\" \u2013 or \"Don't you think that anybody is going to believe you.\u00a0 Why would they believe you?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Author and counselor, Dr. Dan Allender offers this explanation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDan:\u00a0One of the things that's so hard in working with domestic violence is it seems so unreasonable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0I did not want to hurt my parents' ministry.\u00a0 They were missionaries on the West Coast and so faithfully they were endeared to all sorts of people \u2013 they were kind, good people.\u00a0 What would I say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDan:\u00a0For a woman who has been silent, she will handle that, over time, by self-blaming, and the more self-blame there is, the more there will be a growth of shame.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0Just believing those things, not knowing who to trust \u2013 I now say that we become as crazy as the people we live with if not crazier.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDan:\u00a0Shame shuts you down.\u00a0 It puts you almost to a point where your feet are in concrete.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, June 24th.\u00a0 Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 Is there a way of hope for a woman who is experiencing domestic violence?\u00a0 Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.\u00a0 We're going to be discussing a difficult subject today and one where parents are going to want to make a decision about whether this is appropriate for children to be participating in.\u00a0 I remember talking one time to a woman who had been married for 20-plus years, had had five children, and she told me that she knew that her marriage had been headed for trouble and, in her words, \"a mistake\" on day three on her honeymoon.\u00a0 And she went on to describe the events of her honeymoon, her husband's anger and controlling behavior that had begun to be exhibited, and I was astounded by two things \u2013 I was astounded by the fact that this had just cropped up.\u00a0 She'd known this man for years.\u00a0 They'd dated for years and, all of a sudden, it came through on the honeymoon.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0But the other thing that astounded me was 20 years of silence on the part of the woman, who had never said anything to anyone and had never addressed the issue until she finally did step forward and said, \"I can't live like this any longer.\"\u00a0 And, Dennis, I think that's a more common story than we often realize.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0It really is.\u00a0 Yesterday we heard that one in every four women had experienced abuse, and that domestic violence is the leading cause of injury and death to women worldwide.\u00a0 In fact, and I'm quoting here \u2013 gender violence causes more death and disability among women ages 15 to 44 than cancer, malaria, traffic accidents, or war.\u00a0 And I'm quoting from a pastor's handbook on domestic violence that was written by Nancy Murphy entitled, \"God's Reconciling Love,\" and Nancy joins us for a second day on FamilyLife Today \u2013 Nancy, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0Thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And Dr. Dan Allender, who is president of the Mars Hill Graduate School in Seattle, Washington, joins us for a second day.\u00a0 Dan?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDan:\u00a0Dennis, Bob, a delight to be with you both.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And, Dan, you're here because Mars Hill is trying to provide ongoing training for those who want to reach out and help with this silent epidemic.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDan:\u00a0Well, to be very honest, we want to train tens of thousands of men and women to engage, really, a war, and a war that's not going to be fought well through secular agencies, certainly not for the context of the Christian community.\u00a0 And if we're not willing to step into those matters, and we hope that they're going to be handled well within the agencies of a fallen world, we're very, very foolish.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0A number of years ago, we dealt with this issue with a couple that we interviewed here on FamilyLife Today, and I went online to see how many Christian resources we could find to really help the abused or provide hope and healing for the abuser.\u00a0 And I went through page after page, and they were all secular.\u00a0 There weren't any Christian faith-based solutions and, frankly, I think that's an indictment on us in the Christian community that we have not created solutions that take the Scripture and apply them to really dangerous situations.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Well, and, in fact, Nancy, much of what we found when we did look at the literature that exists, came from a very different worldview than a biblical worldview.\u00a0 It came from a worldview that says men are predisposed to violence; that redemption and reconciliation are not possible; and that the best thing a woman can do is to be strong and get free from the bondage of men.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0Yes, and it's like the old adage, you know, \"Don't complain if you haven't voted.\"\u00a0 You know, and I just am so glad that you are addressing this issue because we can't complain that other people have promoted, you know, their theories and provided services.\u00a0 We need to thank them for providing safety for women and children.\u00a0 There are shelters all over this country because battered women who are not necessarily women of faith have said, \"No.\u00a0 We need to protect our own.\"\u00a0 But what will it take for Christians to rise up and say, you know, \"We are the ones with the hope of the Gospel.\u00a0 We understand redemption.\u00a0 We know that God changes hearts, and that people's lives can be put back together.\"\u00a0 I'm really glad that we're going to address this issue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You shared yesterday about your own history of involvement with domestic violence.\u00a0 You were married at age 20 to a man who had been convicted of many crimes as a child, but who had been transformed by the Gospel, who had come to faith in Christ, at least that was the appearance, who wanted to go into ministry.\u00a0 The two of you got married, and on day three of your honeymoon you experienced your first domestic violence, as he struck you many times and then began breaking out the windows in the house where you were staying for your honeymoon.\u00a0 That began what you said was a 10-year progression of ongoing domestic violence and abuse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And somebody is going \u2013 why didn't you say something to someone?\u00a0 Why didn't you say, \"I can't take this.\u00a0 I've got to get help,\" and call a friend or a pastor or somebody to intervene?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Your father?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Yes, call your dad.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Why didn't you call your dad?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0Well, by the time I got to a phone, what's that, four days later, because we didn't have a phone where we were, things weren't that bad and why bother the parents?\u00a0 You know, they had helped us out financially with the wedding.\u00a0 Just \u2013 I didn't have words to even say what happened to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But six months later, or a year later, after you'd been abused now a dozen, two dozen times?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Well, yeah, take us to the next time you, personally, were hit.\u00a0 And I want to say to our listeners who didn't hear yesterday's broadcast \u2013 he struck you with a fist with all of his strength not once but multiple times \u2013 so hard you're not sure how many times you got hit.\u00a0 You just realized you kind of were stunned, and you woke up there on the ground on the third day of your honeymoon.\u00a0 When was the next time he flew into you like that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0Well, I told you then about the mall \u2013 so then \u2013 so a couple of weeks later it was directed at someone else.\u00a0 I can't remember when it happened next, but it was probably a long period \u2013 a long period of kind of, you know, making up and figuring out where we're going to live and interspersed were other activities like driving really, really fast or if somebody tailgated us to he'd get out and kick the car door of the people behind us and just things that made me fearful enough of him.\u00a0 He began with threats like, \"If you tell anybody, I'll\" \u2013 or \"Don't you think that anybody is going to believe you.\u00a0 Why would they believe you?\"\u00a0 You know, those kinds of comments, and so, before long \u2013 I now say that we become as crazy as the people we live with if not crazier.\u00a0 Just believing those things, not knowing who to trust.\u00a0 I did not want to hurt my parents' ministry.\u00a0 I think that's honestly the truth.\u00a0 They were missionaries on the West Coast.\u00a0 They served faithfully, they were endeared to all sorts of people \u2013 they are kind, good people, and we never \u2013 what would I say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You became an enabler.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0I guess that's what you could call it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDan:\u00a0For a woman who has been silent, she will handle that, over time, by self-blaming.\u00a0 And the more self-blame there is, the more there will be a growth of shame.\u00a0 And shame shuts you down.\u00a0 It puts you almost to a point where your feet are in concrete.\u00a0 One of the things that's so hard in working with domestic violence is it seems so unreasonable.\u00a0 And, as a consequence, many women feel virtually blamed for having been shamed and brought to a point of silence.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Nancy, I've got to ask two questions \u2013 and both of you can comment on this.\u00a0 First of all, what was going on \u2013 as you look back, what's in the heart of your husband?\u00a0 What's behind this?\u00a0 And then, secondly, as you looked back, did you see things when you were dating Mike, where you said, \"If I had just been alert to this.\"\u00a0 I'm thinking of gals today who are dating a young man and going, \"Could that happen to me?\"\u00a0 Are there any telltale signs you can tell someone to look out for, that this is a sign that, as your dad said, you're headed toward a life of social work?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0Well, Mike and I have had some discussions quite recently, and he has recently apologized and said, \"I remember seeing you walk down the aisle, and all I could think of was, \"Oh, I hope I can pull this off.\"\u00a0 And I said, \"What do you mean?\"\u00a0 And he said, \"Just the whole responsibility of a wife and making a living and what are we going to do, and I didn't know if I was up for the task.\u00a0 I knew who you were, and I know who I was, and I was hoping that you would complete me.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0How old was he?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0He was 20.\u00a0 I was actually 21.\u00a0 I said I was 20, but I was 21, and he was 20.\u00a0 So, you know, that put a different spin on it for me years later, to be thinking that that's what he was thinking as I was walking up the aisle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0So are you saying what's in the heart of him is, \"Gee, I don't want to fail,\" and \"The only thing I know how to do is just try to control the situation?\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0I'm sure of that, and then what triggered for him when I left the room.\u00a0 On our honeymoon when I said, \"I'm going to go for a walk,\" was an incredible sense of abandonment.\u00a0 Most men who batter women talk about the abandonment.\u00a0 They say, \"You're not going anywhere.\"\u00a0 And part of the control is to make sure that she is always around.\u00a0 She becomes isolated, you know, just controlled in every way with the fear that she's going to leave me, and if she leaves me, then what will my life be?\u00a0 And whether it's failure or abandonment \u2013 it could be both, I'm not sure \u2013 but the whole goal is to capture her and to keep her, and so that's where the cycle happens.\u00a0 If it's through anger and through blows and through, you know, violent episodes to make her afraid of him, then that's what it takes.\u00a0 If it's the promises of, \"Honey, I'll go to church,\" or, you know, the flowers or good lovemaking or romantic endeavors, if that's what it takes, then they'll do that.\u00a0 And that only works for a while, and then the tension starts again.\u00a0 And I think I never understood that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf somebody would have told me, and I'm going to tell you now \u2013 the simple truth that saved my life so many years later was that this is a cycle.\u00a0 Violence is a cycle.\u00a0 It's predictable.\u00a0 There's tension building, where you know something is wrong.\u00a0 You don't know what it is, but something is wrong, and it manifests itself differently.\u00a0 In the heart of the abuser, they start to have plots, and they call them ruminations \u2013 \"She's going to leave, she doesn't like me anymore, you know, what can I do to fix that?\"\u00a0 And in her heart, or the victim, if there are kids around, they're going, \"Uh-oh, something's wrong.\u00a0 Daddy's upset.\"\u00a0 You know, \"What can we do to make everything nice?\u00a0 I'll make a better meal,\" you know, \"I'll just make sure it's quiet when he comes home, I'll do all these things to make sure that he's okay, to calm him down.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0People start walking on eggshells.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0That's the verbiage.\u00a0 They know something's up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And so they don't confront anything.\u00a0 They're afraid of any small thing that could trip the trigger.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0Mm-hm, because it's already happened once, and you never want to go through that again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0But you're saying what's in the heart of a man who is an abuser is fear of abandonment, a desire to maintain control, fear of failure is going on, and probably that man has seen violence as the only way to deal with these kinds of issues in his own past, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0He's been either abused personally, or he has seen abuse around him.\u00a0 That's where the seeds of how you deal with life get planted.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0Mm-hm, and they know something is wrong, too, and rather than them saying, \"I feel humiliated,\" or \"I'm embarrassed\" or \"I'm afraid,\" they just ball up and tense up, you know, watch more TV, they become very, very focused and narrow in their thinking, and you say, you know, \"What's up?\"\u00a0 Trying to engage and instead it's \"Don't bother me, I'm thinking.\"\u00a0 \"Don't talk to me now, I'm busy.\"\u00a0 \"I'm going in my den.\"\u00a0 You know, just kind of the whole isolating \u2013 but everybody around knows something is going to happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0You're talking right now to a lot of young women who are dating a guy, maybe they're women who have been married before and been abused before, but now they've found a wonderful guy, and they're wondering \u2013 am I missing something?\u00a0 Is there something I should be looking for?\u00a0 Are there markers?\u00a0 Are there telltale signs?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0Absolutely.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDan:\u00a0I think it's so important that power is a huge issue here, and a controlling man, a jealous man, a man who is working to isolate you from relationship with others; who will not allow you to grow with him but also apart from him.\u00a0 That's a level of power that will show itself later.\u00a0 At first it feels like he's passionate about you, but that passion begins to become\u00a0 possessive, and in that\u00a0 possession, it's a power of control to keep you from being able to move forward.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0A second issue to me is you must understand that all this violence has some element of payback \u2013 not just to the victim but often to many other people.\u00a0 That person has likely been in a situation where they have been violated, they were powerless, and now it is a lifetime of structure of saying, \"No one is going to put me back into that corner again.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And that third factor is the issue of pleasure.\u00a0 So you can begin to play with these categories, and that is does the person seem to enjoy hurting other people?\u00a0 Or is there, soon after, a remorse and an ownership, or does it come in this period of calamity and great sorrow that becomes sort of a demonstration of a play?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0So you look at those three \u2013 am I being controlled and is this man, generally speaking, somebody who wants people to pay, whether it be driving behind you in a car or whether it be your own father or mother.\u00a0 You're looking for does that person have a violent disposition toward others, even if it's not physical violence \u2013 and then do they have pleasure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0I've said many times to engaged couples, to engaged young women, particularly, if you are dating someone, pay very careful attention to how he treats the waitress at the restaurant when something goes wrong and how he treats his own mom when something isn't the way he likes it.\u00a0 And whatever you're seeing there \u2013 if he's kind and gracious and gentle with those people, he will be with you, likely.\u00a0 But if he's not, he won't be with you in a short while.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Yes, marriage is not a magic wand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0And that's very true, but there is something that's a little more deceptive in the heart of an abuser is that they can \u2013 they have a public face, and they have a private face, and publicly they treat their mothers and the waitresses like they are goddesses.\u00a0 They treat them extremely well.\u00a0 It's when you're alone with them, it's the private face that only you get to see, that is so amazing.\u00a0 That's what makes it not a marriage problem.\u00a0 This is really something that's in the heart of the abuser.\u00a0 Here are some warning signs \u2013 jealousy is exactly it.\u00a0 Have they done it before?\u00a0 If they've been violent before, that's certainly another indicator.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0Like what kind of violence?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0Well, there's a lot of things.\u00a0 An ex-girlfriend, you know, she might say, \"Well, I broke up with him because he hit me once.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0He hurt me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0Yeah, and she might \u2013 he might explain that away, like, she's exaggerating, that's not true, she came from an abusive home, so she \u2013 you know, and he explains it away.\u00a0 That's one way \u2013 a criminal history.\u00a0 A criminal history \u2013 that's \u2013 obviously, that's usually tied with drugs and alcohol and violence and deception.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0You married a young man who had been convicted \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0\u2026 32 times, and then he met the Lord.\u00a0 See, God does make room for Himself in our hearts, but we still have some work to do for the healing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And the thing I want to point out there, because the Christian community \u2013 and, Dan, I want you to comment on this \u2013 the Christian community at this point can be so gullible.\u00a0 We want to believe redemption is so complete that the power of Christ is so overwhelming that we want to believe that a person completely changes, who comes from am criminal past.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Well, 2 Corinthians 5 says, \"All things are made new,\" and we go, \"Praise the Lord \u2013 you're a new creation in Christ.\u00a0 But there's some work to be done with regard to the old man of flesh who remains attached.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDan:\u00a0Well, we go back to that simple point that many people can truly feel great shame and sorrow for a period without making the hard decisions.\u00a0 The hard decision number one \u2013 I will begin to grapple with what has brought me to this point to be violent.\u00a0 I will grapple, too, with the consequences of the harm I've done and submit myself to leaders, to a process, who will then put me in a position where we're looking at a minimum of a year or more for that man to be an individual work and a small group.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0One of the things that Nancy brings to this conversation is a long history of working with abusers and many people in this field work with the victims but not the abusers, and her work has included working with men who have done terrible harm, and there you have two sides \u2013 the people who say, \"Throw him out.\"\u00a0 The other side that says, \"But they're so sorry.\u00a0 We need to trust them and put them back into a place where they can grow in the relationship with their spouse and also with the Lord.\"\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0We need to have the ability to, in one sense, enter realistically and hopefully, both works.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0And as you think about the statistics that have been thrown out here \u2013 that 25 percent of all women have experienced abuse, and that up to 15 percent of men are abusers.\u00a0 Well, if you put those two percentages together in a congregation on Sunday morning, that's four-oh \u2013 that's 40 percent of your audience where this subject is relevant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0What we to be able to do is approach it biblically, and we have to do it in a real sense so we're not sweeping it under the rug \u2013 and hear us as we talk about this \u2013 this is an opportunity for the church, the Christian community, those who represent Jesus Christ, to step into the culture, into a real issue where women need to be protected.\u00a0 The Christian community has been painted as being patriarchal to the point of allowing women to be abused.\u00a0 We are saying no.\u00a0 Let's be leaders who step into the lives of men and women with clear biblical teaching and with safety and with authority and accountability, calling them, calling them to the right thing and using all the secular authorities that are in place \u2013 like the police.\u00a0 Because there is a place in this where the police do need to get involved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0And I think we need to say something real clearly here, Dennis, because we talk, many times, on FamilyLife Today about the biblical admonition for women to be submissive in a marriage relationship to the leadership of their husband.\u00a0 We feel strongly that submission does not require silence \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis:\u00a0\u2026 never \u2026\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0\u2026 or a lack of accountability for sinful behavior on the part of your husband.\u00a0 It is not being submissive to allow yourself to continue to be abused and, in fact, you are a participant at that point in allowing sin to continue, and God would never call us to that.\u00a0 Submission is not the issue here, and if your abusive husband is saying you need to be more submissive, he needs to be held accountable for his sin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNancy:\u00a0Yes, I think it's really important we address this issue theologically.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob:\u00a0Well, let's see if we can do that on tomorrow's program, but today I want to encourage our listeners \u2013 we've got a resource that's available designed to help women who are right in the midst of this kind of domestic violence that we've been talking about.\u00a0 It's a mini-book we've created called \"A Way of Hope,\" and actually the text of the mini-book is on our website at FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 You can go to the Web and just read through it there, if you'd like.\u00a0 You can also order it in a printed copy, and we'll be happy to send that out to you, and it's available in Spanish as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Contact us at 1-800-FLTODAY, go online to order at FamilyLife.com.\u00a0 In addition, if you are a pastor or a counselor, you work regularly with people who might be experiencing this kind of domestic violence, Nancy has written a very helpful handbook for counselors called \"God's Reconciling Love,\" and we have it in our FamilyLife Resource Center.\u00a0 You can go online to order that or call us at 1-800-FLTODAY, and we can have any of these resources sent to you.\u00a0 We also have our three-day visit with Nancy and Dr. Dan Allender available on audio cassette or on CD, and you might ask about that when you get in touch with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0And keep in mind, someone, when you do contact us, may ask if you'd like to help with a donation for the ministry of FamilyLife Today.\u00a0 Really, a part of what you are donating to is the dissemination of this kind of information, not only on this radio program, through our website, through the resources that we've tried to create.\u00a0 We want to provide practical, biblical help for marriages and families, especially those that are hurting, like we've heard about today.\u00a0 Your ongoing financial support of this ministry makes that kind of outreach possible, and we appreciate your financial participation with us here on FamilyLife Today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0You can donate by calling 1-800-FLTODAY.\u00a0 You can donate online at FamilyLife.com or if you want to write a check and mail it to us, just contact us, and we'll give you the mailing address.\u00a0 Call us at 1-800-FLTODAY or find the address online at FamilyLife.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0Well, tomorrow we are going to dig into some of these theological issues that you were just talking about, Nancy, and hear the conclusion of your story.\u00a0 I hope our listeners can be back with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.\u00a0 On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.\u00a0 We'll see you next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>NOTE:<\/strong>\u00a0 Some names have been changed in this transcript.\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t________________________________________________________________\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.\u00a0 However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would\u00a0\u00a0 you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/site\/c.dnJHKLNnFoG\/b.3782043\/k.384D\/Support_Us.htm\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright \u00a9 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