{"id":300459,"date":"2018-11-13T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-11-13T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-freedom-of-forgiveness\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:38","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:38","slug":"the-freedom-of-forgiveness","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-freedom-of-forgiveness\/","title":{"rendered":"The Freedom Of Forgiveness"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Meg Miller | Series: Benefit of the Debt | Meg Miller wasn&#8217;t sure her marriage would survive after she discovered porn on their home computer. The pain she felt after her husband&#8217;s betrayal consumed her. She felt she had been a good wife, only correcting her husband here and there when she had a better way of doing things. Miller remembers her desperation as she begged God for healing, even telling God to change her if that&#8217;s what it would take. Hear how God answered her prayers and gave her insight on how to better relate to her husband.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Meg Miller wasn&#8217;t sure her marriage would survive after she discovered porn at home. The pain she felt after her husband&#8217;s betrayal consumed her. Hear how God showed her how to better relate to her husband.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-11-13.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:49","filesize":"25.47M","filesize_raw":"26704093","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2908,2844,2827,2863],"tags":[4631,4629,4626,4628,4630,4624,2989,4625,4627],"podcast_series":[7264],"cwp_profile":[8863],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300459","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-forgiveness","category-pornography","category-repentance","category-saving-a-marriage","tag-answered-prayers","tag-betrayed","tag-effects-of-watching-ponography","tag-forgiving-your-husband","tag-gods-healing","tag-porn-addiction","tag-pornography","tag-pornographys-impact-on-marriage","tag-recovering-from-pornography-addiction","podcast_series-benefit-of-the-debt","cwp_profile-meg-miller","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300459\/the-freedom-of-forgiveness","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300459\/the-freedom-of-forgiveness","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"0nVerGkCiz\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-freedom-of-forgiveness\/\">The Freedom Of Forgiveness<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-freedom-of-forgiveness\/embed\/#?secret=0nVerGkCiz\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Freedom Of Forgiveness&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"0nVerGkCiz\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-11-13.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-11-13.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Looking back, Meg Miller says there were signs she should have paid attention to that maybe her husband was visiting places, online, where no husband ought to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I knew that he was staying up late, playing video games, and I knew that that\u2019s when most of these things happen\u2014that\u2019s when we\u2019re tired\u2014and that\u2019s when he\u2019s loneliest\u2014that\u2019s when a whole day\u2019s worth of my talking is fresh on his ears.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>for Tuesday, November 13<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. When Meg Miller learned that her husband was looking at pornography, she wondered if her marriage could survive. What she didn\u2019t expect was that the discovery was the beginning of a season when her marriage started to thrive. We\u2019ll talk more about it today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. If the statistics we read are right, there is an epidemic\u2014maybe a pandemic\u2014of marital betrayal going on in our country. I use that word without reservation; because guys looking at pornography\u2014Jesus said, \u201cIf you look on a woman to lust, it\u2019s committing adultery,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s marital betrayal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And that\u2019s what a woman feels when she finds out her husband is participating in\u2014looking at, visiting, or making a habit of going to pornographic sites.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have, in our studio today, a guest who wrote a book called <em>Benefit of the Debt<\/em>. Its subtitle\u2014listen to this subtitle\u2014this may bother some of our listeners; in fact, I predict it <em>will<\/em> bother more than a few: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>How My Husband\u2019s Porn Problem <\/em><em>Ruined<\/em>\u2014and that word, Ruined, is slashed out; and instead it says\u2014<em>How My Husband\u2019s Porn Problem<\/em> <em>Saved Our Marriage.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMeg Miller joins us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. That\u2019s a pretty provocative subtitle to your book; don\u2019t you think, Meg?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> It is. I once knew someone, who had a cancer diagnosis; and after that\u2014after he beat cancer, he became the healthiest person he knows. [Laughter] We all know someone, who had a heart attack and quit smoking, or a stroke and started exercising. This was a wake-up call for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There are a lot of people, who can live a lifetime together, and never truly begin to experience marriage at a true, intimate level like you and your husband Joe do now. You were married back in 2007. You live near Washington, DC, and\u2014organic farmers\u2014chicken farmers, there, in the DC area. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour book talks about how you found out your husband was viewing pornography, late at night; and then, you got on a bus\u2014you left. You were intending to keep on going for a while. He called you; you got back together. You went to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; but you said to us, earlier, that the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> was not the \u201cAha\u201d moment that you needed in your life to, ultimately, forgive your husband, Joe. Explain what you mean by that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> The <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway was a gift to us\u2014one of our concerned friends gave us tickets\u2014they said, \u201cThey need this!\u2014soon!\u201d We went; and there was a moment there, where I did not think our marriage was going to survive, as we sat in those seats and listened. But there was one exercise, where we were to write a letter to our spouse. That was where I was able to talk with the Lord and be honest with Him about everything I had just heard in the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00 <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was convinced, then, just to keep searching for healing. I was <em>not<\/em> convinced to save the marriage\u2014I did not receive that \u201cAha\u201d moment\u2014but I <em>did<\/em> make the decision to, at least, <em>try.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> One of the things you talk about in your book is how a wife has a high need for loyalty from her husband, and that\u2019s why this betrayal so strikes at the core of what a relationship is all about. Unpack what that loyalty looks like\u2014that a wife needs from a husband\u2014and why is pornography such a threat at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Sex is the most intimate and self-fulfilling form of expression of love that, physically, you can engage in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s almost representative of what else is going on in the home. I\u2019ve heard a chef once said, \u201cSex starts in the kitchen.\u201d That\u2019s because what\u2019s happening outside of the bedroom greatly affects what\u2019s going on inside the bedroom. If things are <em>not<\/em> good in the living room and in the kitchen, then things <em>won\u2019t<\/em> be good in the bedroom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverything I\u2019ve seen from society\u2014all the way to my friends, to my own family members, and in my own marriage is that\u2014that\u2019s a pretty basic need of men and women\u2014is sexual intimacy and emotional connection.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, did you think things were good in the living room for the three years before you discovered your husband was looking at pornography?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I thought they were good enough; and I thought, with more training of my husband, I could make them even better. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Explain what you mean by that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I was pretty controlling in my administration of the household tasks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00 <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So you were the one who was going to train him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; I believed that. It didn\u2019t manifest very vocally, but he could tell my disapproval in my manner and my moods. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then, there was this other thing\u2014where, sometimes, I wasn\u2019t criticizing him; but after a day, full of criticism, he would hear that as criticism too\u2014for example: \u201cDid you feed the dog? I just need to know if the dog\u2019s been fed; I\u2019m not trying to criticize you.\u201d But he sees it as, if I criticize him for the first part of the day, then, \u201cThis is probably another chance she\u2019s going to do that.\u201d So he thinks there\u2019s a right or wrong answer to feeding the dog. There\u2019s not a right or wrong answer; but unfortunately, I had trained him to be a little wary of my questions and my comments.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, if a wife says, \u201cDid you feed the dog?\u201d and he says, \u201cNo; I didn\u2019t get a chance to,\u201d and she goes [Sighing sound]\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014he\u2019s got the message: \u201cYou have disappointed me. You\u2019ve let me down. You\u2019re not the man I can depend on, and trust, and rely on.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re about to wander into some dangerous territory\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014let\u2019s just say it, right up front here\u2014because we\u2019re about to talk about how God used this whole revelation of your husband looking at porn to begin to confront <em>you<\/em> about patterns in your marriage, that were not healthy, that were a part of the journey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis can be\u2014it\u2019s kind of a trigger warning you have to go here; because some people can hear: \u201cNow, we\u2019re starting to say that it\u2019s the wife who\u2019s the problem and the husband\u2019s off the hook.\u201d That\u2019s <em>not<\/em> what you\u2019re saying in this book; but at the same time, you\u2019re saying, \u201cWe can\u2019t just ignore the fact that there are two of us in this equation, and both of us are bringing issues to the table.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> It can be a <em>gift <\/em>of a revelation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was on the bus, and on the train, and in my seat at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway\u2014bitter, bitter, bitter; just angry; hurt; resentful; repulsed. Over the next few weeks and months, I said, \u201cI\u2019ll go to Christian counseling; sure,\u201d but, boy, I just never felt like I was getting better! It went on for a <em>year<\/em>, where I asked God, \u201cYou\u2019ve got to help me get better!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really started feeling frantic when that hurt began to turn into resentment\u2014a more permanent stone feeling as opposed to wounded. I could look around in my life and see a lot of hurt, angry women\u2014who were hurt a long time ago, but never seemed to work through it\u2014and are now angry. It\u2019s written all over their faces. I knew I did not want to become like that\u2014for my husband or me\u2014for anybody; for the world. I wanted to be wounded or healed\u2014<em>not<\/em> resentful\/not bitter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I felt that start to happen\u2014where I started losing hope for my own healing\u2014I really cried out to God. I doubled my prayer\u2014I really begged Him: \u201cChange me!\u201d I stopped asking Him to change my husband, and I started asking Him to change <em>me<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s a great prayer!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt took a moment on the beltway that runs around DC\u2014a year later, after you\u2019d found out your husband\u2019s struggle with pornography\u2014where you had your \u201cAha\u201d moment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; I was asking God to change me: \u201cChange me! Change me! Even if that means to make me more self-sufficient, so his behavior wouldn\u2019t hurt me.\u201d I didn\u2019t unleash the blessings of heaven with that prayer either; but I said: \u201cOkay; change me any way\u2014change me any way you want to, God. I won\u2019t tell You how to change me; just do it! I\u2019m not saying just \u2018Heal me,\u2019 I\u2019m saying: \u2018Change my perspective. Give me that piece of information I\u2019m missing. There\u2019s got to be something.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was curious enough to say, \u201cThere has to be something here that I\u2019m missing,\u201d and there was! And in a rush of insight\u2014it\u2019s the most beautiful moment! If you\u2019ve ever heard from God, personally, it doesn\u2019t matter what He\u2019s saying\u2014it doesn\u2019t matter what He\u2019s saying, you just want to hear more!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI <em>know<\/em>, as an adopted child of God, through the cross of Jesus, that whatever God says to me is going to be for my own good; so I was open. I had been hurting for so long that it didn\u2019t matter what the message was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt almost took those ingredients for me to be ready for what He showed me. What He showed me was my husband\u2019s heart was just as hurt as mine, which didn\u2019t make sense\u2014that sounded like a change of subject. \u201cOkay; so my husband\u2019s hurt. Now, I have some compassion for my husband. Is that what you\u2019re going at, Lord? Is that what You\u2019re showing me?\u2014is trying to give me compassion?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, the Lord showed me the rest of the picture, which is <em>me<\/em> hurting my husband just as much as his pornography use had hurt me. The <em>measure<\/em> of my hurt was now applied to my husband\u2019s heart\u2014the very measure\u2014only the source was my words and my demeanor, not pornography use. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, there had to be some\u2014because here\u2019s what I hear you saying\u2014I hear you saying God showed you insight into the reality that how you had related to your husband\u2014your controlling and, sometimes, critical nature had hurt his heart in the same way that his looking at pornography had hurt your heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you know that there are some women, listening to this and going: \u201cThese are <em>not <\/em>the same, sister! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI mean, what he did! Sure, you may have been controlling and critical, but come on! He\u2019s looking at porn on the internet! That\u2019s not the same as a wife who needs to control her tongue a little more.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Well, let\u2019s talk about the messages therein. The message of pornography is: \u201cMy wife\u2019s not enough. I just need a little extra\u2014just a little extra,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m tipping the scales back; because I\u2019ve been giving, giving, giving so much for my wife and putting up so much with my wife.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the very same way, when I criticize my husband, the message is exactly the same: \u201cI\u2019m not asking for a weekend in Paris; I just want you to pick up your socks!\u201d \u201cI just wish we could get a dog that doesn\u2019t bark at the neighbors!\u201d \u201cI just wish the roof would magically repair itself since you don\u2019t have time.\u201d I\u2019m <em>not<\/em> even criticizing too badly; but at the end of the day, that\u2019s a lot of criticism. If I\u2019ve said 100 things, cumulatively, that turns into a pretty big message.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if a husband looking at pornography, is a message: \u201cYou\u2019re not enough for me,\u201d you\u2019re saying: \u201cEvery time a wife says: \u2018Why didn\u2019t you do this? Why can\u2019t you be that?\u2019 she\u2019s saying: \u2018You\u2019re not enough for me. I need a fantasy man the same way you need a fantasy woman.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I am saying that, if that is true, then a lot of things would come into focus in my house. It would make a lot of sense why he bristles, every once in a while, but not other times. Then, there are a few other things that come into focus. Why have we never seen a women\u2019s accountability group for nagging?\u2014we don\u2019t believe it really hurts too much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, if it\u2019s true that it does, then we would be treating it much more seriously. Men are always holding each other accountable. Just this morning, my husband got the most awesome text from a buddy, who said: \u201cHey, I\u2019m praying for you in your struggle for sexual purity. I hope you\u2019re praying for me too. Here\u2019s a verse to encourage you\u2026Hey, Jesus is on the throne; don\u2019t forget. Go out there and take every thought captive.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, \u201cWhat if women did that in regard to building up our homes with our words as opposed to tearing down our husbands by accident?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Words are powerful! A woman has the ability to bring life or death in how she treats her husband\u2014what she says to him \/ her attitude that accompanies her words. That\u2019s what God began to show <em>you<\/em>. How did you repent of what <em>you<\/em> were facing at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> It\u2019s the best feeling in the world\u2014to be shown that you have a million dollars of debt, but someone else is going to pay it\u2014all in the same five minutes. It\u2019s a <em>terrible<\/em> revelation; and yet, a wonderful one at the same time. I didn\u2019t realize I was tearing my house down; I didn\u2019t realize I was hurting my husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had heard some tips and tricks from professional\u2014kind of Christian publishers out there before. There are some tips on respecting your husband, and a verse or two here or there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought those would be ways to improve my life. I did not take them as seriously as pornography\u2014as how much damage [a husband\u2019s] pornography [use] could hurt a woman. But now, as soon as I considered it, it brought everything into focus for me. The conviction of having done the same amount of damage\u2014and the instant knowledge that that debt has been paid for on my behalf\u2014filled me with compassion, and love, and a desire to make it right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So did you go home and say the words: \u201cI forgive you. I\u2019ve got my own stuff I\u2019m working on\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> No! I said, \u201cI\u2019m sorry for my portion of it. I am so sorry!\u201d because I had been saying, \u201cI forgive you,\u201d this whole time\u2014I just never felt it. So, instead, I went home and said: \u201cI have sinned against the Lord. I\u2019ve been addicted to controlling my husband.\u201d I didn\u2019t realize it, but that\u2019s what I wanted to comfort me\u2014is his behavior change: \u201cShape up, buddy! Just be a good version of yourself.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I went home and said, \u201cI\u2019m so sorry!\u201d he didn\u2019t know who was walking through the door; because this person has changed! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I have thought about this, hourly, since it happened. I am a changed person! I might not be able to explain it, but I was blind and now I see. I was hurt, and now I\u2019m not. I\u2019m full of compassion and love for my husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, wait! You said you\u2019ve thought about this <em>hourly <\/em>since it happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Hourly! I feel like a new convert\u2014like a new believer\u2014because, sure, sin has separated me from God; and Jesus made that right. But after a while, my goodness of Christian living\u2014and projecting that goodness onto my husband\u2014my <em>goodness<\/em> separated me from God; and Jesus did <em>not<\/em> have to come and make that right for me, but He did! That was a gift; and now, I get to have a family, where I don\u2019t just cope with a guy that\u2019s weird or a guy that\u2019s gross. Now, I\u2019m gross too! [Laughter] I just have a different version of it, and I\u2019ve done the same amount of damage; and I\u2019m so sorry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEarlier this week, I just said: \u201cJoe, don\u2019t give up on me. I\u2019m going to keep trying!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, these are the words of an addict. These are the words of someone who struggles with something shameful\u2014not goodness\/not self-righteousness. But if we\u2014we, women, took the sin of self-righteousness as seriously as the church treats pornography, we might have some healing on our hands among women\u2014women who are angry or hurt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, I\u2019ve just got to know\u2014when you went to your husband and said: \u201cSweetheart, I think I\u2019ve got to tell me story. I\u2019ve got to write a book about this. Oh, by the way, that\u2019s going to mean you\u2019re busted,\u201d was there any hesitancy on his part of it?\u2014kind of like, \u201cUm, could we just, you know, keep that between us?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Everyone asks about him\u2014\u201cWhat does he think about all of this?\u201d\u2014and about me telling my story. He <em>knows<\/em> the change in our house. Look at me! You can tell I\u2019m not who I was!\u2014and he knows that. If he could gift that to every man out there, because men\u2014so many of them\u2014are in the position that he was in\u2014afraid of the reaction that their wife would give them if those men were honest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe knows, now, not to be afraid of my response; because the <em>Lord<\/em> is my identity\u2014not my husband\u2019s faithfulness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> He has said: \u201cIf we could just talk about it in our homes\u2014that: \u2018You\u2019re hurting me just as much as I\u2019m hurting you,\u2019 then we have\u2014the pressure\u2019s off. There\u2019s no pressure cooker anymore. Pornography loses its allure.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDoes that mean that a nagging wife creates a husband who looks at pornography? Absolutely not! There\u2019s <em>no way<\/em> you can say that. But, when the pressure does come off of a husband to perform really well, he tends to want to go to his wife for comfort.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I was going to ask you: \u201cHow did your repentance and your giving up the caustic tongue\u2014the nagging\u2014how did that manifest itself in the coming days and weeks that rolled out?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good question; because remember, the nagging was a lot of just household administration. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was just a lot of sighing, and a lot of like [frustrated sighs]. I didn\u2019t realize that that was nagging. So, first of all, I quit criticizing him in overt ways; for example, saying, \u201cYou never do that,\u201d or \u201cI wish you were more like this,\u201d\u2014I stopped that; that\u2019s easy! That\u2019s what a lot of listeners can do, easily, today. What\u2019s harder are those [vocal example]. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Just that!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> You <em>know<\/em> exactly what I\u2019m saying, and so do the women and men listening. I don\u2019t think we know that much of our communication is received as criticism; so if we get rid of our overt criticism, there\u2019s still some that remains. For that, we need grace in the home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And I\u2019ve just got to ask this, because this keeps coming to me\u2014a woman, who is listening and going: \u201cOkay; we\u2019re just coddling men\u2019s stupid, fragile male ego! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWe sigh, and they can\u2019t handle it! They just need to man up and get over it, and quit blaming us because we sighed.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s a <em>good<\/em> question, because that\u2019s what I\u2019m dealing with at home now. Something is disappointing\u2014the brakes on the Jeep go bad\u2014and I [making a clicking sound with tongue]. But <em>now<\/em>, we can talk about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a couple of jokes at our house\u2014where, if I do something like that; or I ask my husband to do something\u2014I\u2019m not <em>overtly<\/em> criticizing, but just piling on the \u201cto do\u201d list\u2014he says, \u201cI\u2019ve done that ten times already.\u201d What that means to me is\u2014even if he hasn\u2019t done it\u2014he\u2019s saying: \u201cCan you back off? You\u2019re hurting me. Even though it might not be logical for me to be hurt right now, this is my sore spot.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe should be able to have a sore spot; I should be able to recognize it. Now, I need his help to know when I\u2019m doing that. He has to agree not to be afraid of my backlash. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOccasionally, I will freak out and I\u2019ll say: \u201cWhat do you mean, you\u2019re hurt by that?! Come on! We\u2019re late for church; let\u2019s get out the door!\u201d So he has to man up and face that fear of my backlash; but give me a few minutes, and I\u2019ll come back and say: \u201cI\u2019m so sorry. Please don\u2019t give up on me,\u201d just because we\u2019ve had this pretty big perspective change.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We\u2019re not letting men off the hook, but we are\u2014you, especially, are\u2014challenging wives to think about the power they have to call men to step up, and to be God\u2019s man, and not to be critical of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve kind of looped all the way back around to the subtitle of your book: <em>How My Husband\u2019s Porn Problem <\/em>Ruined\u2014that word, <em>Ruined<\/em>, is slashed through; and instead, it says <em>How My Husband\u2019s Porn Problem Saved Our Marriage. <\/em>What you\u2019ve just said\u2014what you\u2019ve just illustrated\u2014is how marriage was meant to be\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014two broken people, who never stop repenting and owning their own stuff, and finding a way to live out, in humility, the love of Christ in their marriage. That means you don\u2019t toss the towel in; you don\u2019t trash your covenant, because you\u2019ve failed each other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And it is how two imperfect people can go the distance in a lifetime. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMeg, I want to thank you for allowing us to peer into your relationship and being honest. Tell Joe, \u201cThanks.\u201d Tell him: \u201cThanks for caring enough about other guys for them to read this story. Maybe, they\u2019ll just repent; and their wives will as well.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. We\u2019ve got copies of Meg\u2019s book available in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. In fact, our friend, Gary Rosberg, said, \u201cMeg has penned a book that will mess with you, and that\u2019s why I\u2019m cheering her on.\u201d Someone else said, \u201cThis book is going to make some women mad, but it may save a lot of marriages.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, we\u2019ve got copies of the book, <em>Benefit of the Debt: How My Husband\u2019s Porn Problem <\/em><em>Ruined<\/em><em> Saved Our Marriage, <\/em>by Meg Miller. You can order it from us when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329 to order your copy\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of the exciting things that we\u2019re hearing around here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is people who are starting to go through our <em>Art of Parenting<\/em><sup>\u2122<\/sup> video series, or the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em> curriculum that\u2019s available online, and starting to learn and apply what they\u2019re hearing about parenting as they go through this content. The reason that\u2019s exciting for us is because our mission, here, is to provide practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families to help effectively develop godly marriages and families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe believe godly marriages and families can change the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen a resource that we\u2019ve created\u2014or a radio program that you\u2019ve listened to, an article you\u2019ve read online, an event you have attended\u2014when any of these help get you pointed in a good direction, then we cheer!\u2014that\u2019s what FamilyLife is all about. We could not do what we do if it weren\u2019t for friends, like you, who have stepped in and said, \u201cThat\u2019s a good goal; that\u2019s a good mission, and it\u2019s one we want to support.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>is a listener-supported ministry, so your donations are critical for the ongoing work of this ministry. If you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d like to express our thanks by making available to you the audiobook of Barbara Rainey\u2019s <em>Thanksgiving: A Time to Remember. <\/em>This is a narrated, dramatized telling of the first Thanksgiving\u2014something you and your whole family may want to listen to as you prepare for the Thanksgiving holiday. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTo get your copy of the audio book, go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014make an online donation\u2014or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Ask about how you can get the audio book when you get in touch with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow. We\u2019re going to talk about parenting. We\u2019re going to talk about how we win a child\u2019s heart rather than simply modifying their behavior. Paul David Tripp is going to join us, and we hope you will join us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:49"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.47M"],"filesize_raw":["26704093"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-300459.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-300459.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Miller wasn't sure her marriage would survive after she discovered porn at home. The pain she felt after her husband's betrayal consumed her. Hear how God showed her how to better relate to her husband.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-11-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Looking back, Meg Miller says there were signs she should have paid attention to that maybe her husband was visiting places, online, where no husband ought to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I knew that he was staying up late, playing video games, and I knew that that\u2019s when most of these things happen\u2014that\u2019s when we\u2019re tired\u2014and that\u2019s when he\u2019s loneliest\u2014that\u2019s when a whole day\u2019s worth of my talking is fresh on his ears.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>for Tuesday, November 13<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. When Meg Miller learned that her husband was looking at pornography, she wondered if her marriage could survive. What she didn\u2019t expect was that the discovery was the beginning of a season when her marriage started to thrive. We\u2019ll talk more about it today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. If the statistics we read are right, there is an epidemic\u2014maybe a pandemic\u2014of marital betrayal going on in our country. I use that word without reservation; because guys looking at pornography\u2014Jesus said, \u201cIf you look on a woman to lust, it\u2019s committing adultery,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s marital betrayal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And that\u2019s what a woman feels when she finds out her husband is participating in\u2014looking at, visiting, or making a habit of going to pornographic sites.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have, in our studio today, a guest who wrote a book called <em>Benefit of the Debt<\/em>. Its subtitle\u2014listen to this subtitle\u2014this may bother some of our listeners; in fact, I predict it <em>will<\/em> bother more than a few: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>How My Husband\u2019s Porn Problem <\/em><em>Ruined<\/em>\u2014and that word, Ruined, is slashed out; and instead it says\u2014<em>How My Husband\u2019s Porn Problem<\/em> <em>Saved Our Marriage.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMeg Miller joins us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. That\u2019s a pretty provocative subtitle to your book; don\u2019t you think, Meg?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> It is. I once knew someone, who had a cancer diagnosis; and after that\u2014after he beat cancer, he became the healthiest person he knows. [Laughter] We all know someone, who had a heart attack and quit smoking, or a stroke and started exercising. This was a wake-up call for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There are a lot of people, who can live a lifetime together, and never truly begin to experience marriage at a true, intimate level like you and your husband Joe do now. You were married back in 2007. You live near Washington, DC, and\u2014organic farmers\u2014chicken farmers, there, in the DC area. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour book talks about how you found out your husband was viewing pornography, late at night; and then, you got on a bus\u2014you left. You were intending to keep on going for a while. He called you; you got back together. You went to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; but you said to us, earlier, that the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> was not the \u201cAha\u201d moment that you needed in your life to, ultimately, forgive your husband, Joe. Explain what you mean by that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> The <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway was a gift to us\u2014one of our concerned friends gave us tickets\u2014they said, \u201cThey need this!\u2014soon!\u201d We went; and there was a moment there, where I did not think our marriage was going to survive, as we sat in those seats and listened. But there was one exercise, where we were to write a letter to our spouse. That was where I was able to talk with the Lord and be honest with Him about everything I had just heard in the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00 <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was convinced, then, just to keep searching for healing. I was <em>not<\/em> convinced to save the marriage\u2014I did not receive that \u201cAha\u201d moment\u2014but I <em>did<\/em> make the decision to, at least, <em>try.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> One of the things you talk about in your book is how a wife has a high need for loyalty from her husband, and that\u2019s why this betrayal so strikes at the core of what a relationship is all about. Unpack what that loyalty looks like\u2014that a wife needs from a husband\u2014and why is pornography such a threat at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Sex is the most intimate and self-fulfilling form of expression of love that, physically, you can engage in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s almost representative of what else is going on in the home. I\u2019ve heard a chef once said, \u201cSex starts in the kitchen.\u201d That\u2019s because what\u2019s happening outside of the bedroom greatly affects what\u2019s going on inside the bedroom. If things are <em>not<\/em> good in the living room and in the kitchen, then things <em>won\u2019t<\/em> be good in the bedroom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverything I\u2019ve seen from society\u2014all the way to my friends, to my own family members, and in my own marriage is that\u2014that\u2019s a pretty basic need of men and women\u2014is sexual intimacy and emotional connection.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, did you think things were good in the living room for the three years before you discovered your husband was looking at pornography?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I thought they were good enough; and I thought, with more training of my husband, I could make them even better. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Explain what you mean by that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I was pretty controlling in my administration of the household tasks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00 <\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So you were the one who was going to train him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; I believed that. It didn\u2019t manifest very vocally, but he could tell my disapproval in my manner and my moods. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then, there was this other thing\u2014where, sometimes, I wasn\u2019t criticizing him; but after a day, full of criticism, he would hear that as criticism too\u2014for example: \u201cDid you feed the dog? I just need to know if the dog\u2019s been fed; I\u2019m not trying to criticize you.\u201d But he sees it as, if I criticize him for the first part of the day, then, \u201cThis is probably another chance she\u2019s going to do that.\u201d So he thinks there\u2019s a right or wrong answer to feeding the dog. There\u2019s not a right or wrong answer; but unfortunately, I had trained him to be a little wary of my questions and my comments.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, if a wife says, \u201cDid you feed the dog?\u201d and he says, \u201cNo; I didn\u2019t get a chance to,\u201d and she goes [Sighing sound]\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014he\u2019s got the message: \u201cYou have disappointed me. You\u2019ve let me down. You\u2019re not the man I can depend on, and trust, and rely on.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re about to wander into some dangerous territory\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014let\u2019s just say it, right up front here\u2014because we\u2019re about to talk about how God used this whole revelation of your husband looking at porn to begin to confront <em>you<\/em> about patterns in your marriage, that were not healthy, that were a part of the journey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis can be\u2014it\u2019s kind of a trigger warning you have to go here; because some people can hear: \u201cNow, we\u2019re starting to say that it\u2019s the wife who\u2019s the problem and the husband\u2019s off the hook.\u201d That\u2019s <em>not<\/em> what you\u2019re saying in this book; but at the same time, you\u2019re saying, \u201cWe can\u2019t just ignore the fact that there are two of us in this equation, and both of us are bringing issues to the table.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> It can be a <em>gift <\/em>of a revelation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was on the bus, and on the train, and in my seat at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway\u2014bitter, bitter, bitter; just angry; hurt; resentful; repulsed. Over the next few weeks and months, I said, \u201cI\u2019ll go to Christian counseling; sure,\u201d but, boy, I just never felt like I was getting better! It went on for a <em>year<\/em>, where I asked God, \u201cYou\u2019ve got to help me get better!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really started feeling frantic when that hurt began to turn into resentment\u2014a more permanent stone feeling as opposed to wounded. I could look around in my life and see a lot of hurt, angry women\u2014who were hurt a long time ago, but never seemed to work through it\u2014and are now angry. It\u2019s written all over their faces. I knew I did not want to become like that\u2014for my husband or me\u2014for anybody; for the world. I wanted to be wounded or healed\u2014<em>not<\/em> resentful\/not bitter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I felt that start to happen\u2014where I started losing hope for my own healing\u2014I really cried out to God. I doubled my prayer\u2014I really begged Him: \u201cChange me!\u201d I stopped asking Him to change my husband, and I started asking Him to change <em>me<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s a great prayer!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt took a moment on the beltway that runs around DC\u2014a year later, after you\u2019d found out your husband\u2019s struggle with pornography\u2014where you had your \u201cAha\u201d moment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; I was asking God to change me: \u201cChange me! Change me! Even if that means to make me more self-sufficient, so his behavior wouldn\u2019t hurt me.\u201d I didn\u2019t unleash the blessings of heaven with that prayer either; but I said: \u201cOkay; change me any way\u2014change me any way you want to, God. I won\u2019t tell You how to change me; just do it! I\u2019m not saying just \u2018Heal me,\u2019 I\u2019m saying: \u2018Change my perspective. Give me that piece of information I\u2019m missing. There\u2019s got to be something.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was curious enough to say, \u201cThere has to be something here that I\u2019m missing,\u201d and there was! And in a rush of insight\u2014it\u2019s the most beautiful moment! If you\u2019ve ever heard from God, personally, it doesn\u2019t matter what He\u2019s saying\u2014it doesn\u2019t matter what He\u2019s saying, you just want to hear more!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI <em>know<\/em>, as an adopted child of God, through the cross of Jesus, that whatever God says to me is going to be for my own good; so I was open. I had been hurting for so long that it didn\u2019t matter what the message was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt almost took those ingredients for me to be ready for what He showed me. What He showed me was my husband\u2019s heart was just as hurt as mine, which didn\u2019t make sense\u2014that sounded like a change of subject. \u201cOkay; so my husband\u2019s hurt. Now, I have some compassion for my husband. Is that what you\u2019re going at, Lord? Is that what You\u2019re showing me?\u2014is trying to give me compassion?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, the Lord showed me the rest of the picture, which is <em>me<\/em> hurting my husband just as much as his pornography use had hurt me. The <em>measure<\/em> of my hurt was now applied to my husband\u2019s heart\u2014the very measure\u2014only the source was my words and my demeanor, not pornography use. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, there had to be some\u2014because here\u2019s what I hear you saying\u2014I hear you saying God showed you insight into the reality that how you had related to your husband\u2014your controlling and, sometimes, critical nature had hurt his heart in the same way that his looking at pornography had hurt your heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you know that there are some women, listening to this and going: \u201cThese are <em>not <\/em>the same, sister! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI mean, what he did! Sure, you may have been controlling and critical, but come on! He\u2019s looking at porn on the internet! That\u2019s not the same as a wife who needs to control her tongue a little more.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Well, let\u2019s talk about the messages therein. The message of pornography is: \u201cMy wife\u2019s not enough. I just need a little extra\u2014just a little extra,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m tipping the scales back; because I\u2019ve been giving, giving, giving so much for my wife and putting up so much with my wife.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the very same way, when I criticize my husband, the message is exactly the same: \u201cI\u2019m not asking for a weekend in Paris; I just want you to pick up your socks!\u201d \u201cI just wish we could get a dog that doesn\u2019t bark at the neighbors!\u201d \u201cI just wish the roof would magically repair itself since you don\u2019t have time.\u201d I\u2019m <em>not<\/em> even criticizing too badly; but at the end of the day, that\u2019s a lot of criticism. If I\u2019ve said 100 things, cumulatively, that turns into a pretty big message.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if a husband looking at pornography, is a message: \u201cYou\u2019re not enough for me,\u201d you\u2019re saying: \u201cEvery time a wife says: \u2018Why didn\u2019t you do this? Why can\u2019t you be that?\u2019 she\u2019s saying: \u2018You\u2019re not enough for me. I need a fantasy man the same way you need a fantasy woman.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I am saying that, if that is true, then a lot of things would come into focus in my house. It would make a lot of sense why he bristles, every once in a while, but not other times. Then, there are a few other things that come into focus. Why have we never seen a women\u2019s accountability group for nagging?\u2014we don\u2019t believe it really hurts too much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, if it\u2019s true that it does, then we would be treating it much more seriously. Men are always holding each other accountable. Just this morning, my husband got the most awesome text from a buddy, who said: \u201cHey, I\u2019m praying for you in your struggle for sexual purity. I hope you\u2019re praying for me too. Here\u2019s a verse to encourage you\u2026Hey, Jesus is on the throne; don\u2019t forget. Go out there and take every thought captive.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, \u201cWhat if women did that in regard to building up our homes with our words as opposed to tearing down our husbands by accident?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Words are powerful! A woman has the ability to bring life or death in how she treats her husband\u2014what she says to him \/ her attitude that accompanies her words. That\u2019s what God began to show <em>you<\/em>. How did you repent of what <em>you<\/em> were facing at that point?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> It\u2019s the best feeling in the world\u2014to be shown that you have a million dollars of debt, but someone else is going to pay it\u2014all in the same five minutes. It\u2019s a <em>terrible<\/em> revelation; and yet, a wonderful one at the same time. I didn\u2019t realize I was tearing my house down; I didn\u2019t realize I was hurting my husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had heard some tips and tricks from professional\u2014kind of Christian publishers out there before. There are some tips on respecting your husband, and a verse or two here or there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought those would be ways to improve my life. I did not take them as seriously as pornography\u2014as how much damage [a husband\u2019s] pornography [use] could hurt a woman. But now, as soon as I considered it, it brought everything into focus for me. The conviction of having done the same amount of damage\u2014and the instant knowledge that that debt has been paid for on my behalf\u2014filled me with compassion, and love, and a desire to make it right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So did you go home and say the words: \u201cI forgive you. I\u2019ve got my own stuff I\u2019m working on\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> No! I said, \u201cI\u2019m sorry for my portion of it. I am so sorry!\u201d because I had been saying, \u201cI forgive you,\u201d this whole time\u2014I just never felt it. So, instead, I went home and said: \u201cI have sinned against the Lord. I\u2019ve been addicted to controlling my husband.\u201d I didn\u2019t realize it, but that\u2019s what I wanted to comfort me\u2014is his behavior change: \u201cShape up, buddy! Just be a good version of yourself.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I went home and said, \u201cI\u2019m so sorry!\u201d he didn\u2019t know who was walking through the door; because this person has changed! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I have thought about this, hourly, since it happened. I am a changed person! I might not be able to explain it, but I was blind and now I see. I was hurt, and now I\u2019m not. I\u2019m full of compassion and love for my husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, wait! You said you\u2019ve thought about this <em>hourly <\/em>since it happened?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Hourly! I feel like a new convert\u2014like a new believer\u2014because, sure, sin has separated me from God; and Jesus made that right. But after a while, my goodness of Christian living\u2014and projecting that goodness onto my husband\u2014my <em>goodness<\/em> separated me from God; and Jesus did <em>not<\/em> have to come and make that right for me, but He did! That was a gift; and now, I get to have a family, where I don\u2019t just cope with a guy that\u2019s weird or a guy that\u2019s gross. Now, I\u2019m gross too! [Laughter] I just have a different version of it, and I\u2019ve done the same amount of damage; and I\u2019m so sorry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEarlier this week, I just said: \u201cJoe, don\u2019t give up on me. I\u2019m going to keep trying!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, these are the words of an addict. These are the words of someone who struggles with something shameful\u2014not goodness\/not self-righteousness. But if we\u2014we, women, took the sin of self-righteousness as seriously as the church treats pornography, we might have some healing on our hands among women\u2014women who are angry or hurt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, I\u2019ve just got to know\u2014when you went to your husband and said: \u201cSweetheart, I think I\u2019ve got to tell me story. I\u2019ve got to write a book about this. Oh, by the way, that\u2019s going to mean you\u2019re busted,\u201d was there any hesitancy on his part of it?\u2014kind of like, \u201cUm, could we just, you know, keep that between us?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Everyone asks about him\u2014\u201cWhat does he think about all of this?\u201d\u2014and about me telling my story. He <em>knows<\/em> the change in our house. Look at me! You can tell I\u2019m not who I was!\u2014and he knows that. If he could gift that to every man out there, because men\u2014so many of them\u2014are in the position that he was in\u2014afraid of the reaction that their wife would give them if those men were honest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe knows, now, not to be afraid of my response; because the <em>Lord<\/em> is my identity\u2014not my husband\u2019s faithfulness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> He has said: \u201cIf we could just talk about it in our homes\u2014that: \u2018You\u2019re hurting me just as much as I\u2019m hurting you,\u2019 then we have\u2014the pressure\u2019s off. There\u2019s no pressure cooker anymore. Pornography loses its allure.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDoes that mean that a nagging wife creates a husband who looks at pornography? Absolutely not! There\u2019s <em>no way<\/em> you can say that. But, when the pressure does come off of a husband to perform really well, he tends to want to go to his wife for comfort.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I was going to ask you: \u201cHow did your repentance and your giving up the caustic tongue\u2014the nagging\u2014how did that manifest itself in the coming days and weeks that rolled out?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good question; because remember, the nagging was a lot of just household administration. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was just a lot of sighing, and a lot of like [frustrated sighs]. I didn\u2019t realize that that was nagging. So, first of all, I quit criticizing him in overt ways; for example, saying, \u201cYou never do that,\u201d or \u201cI wish you were more like this,\u201d\u2014I stopped that; that\u2019s easy! That\u2019s what a lot of listeners can do, easily, today. What\u2019s harder are those [vocal example]. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Just that!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> You <em>know<\/em> exactly what I\u2019m saying, and so do the women and men listening. I don\u2019t think we know that much of our communication is received as criticism; so if we get rid of our overt criticism, there\u2019s still some that remains. For that, we need grace in the home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And I\u2019ve just got to ask this, because this keeps coming to me\u2014a woman, who is listening and going: \u201cOkay; we\u2019re just coddling men\u2019s stupid, fragile male ego! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWe sigh, and they can\u2019t handle it! They just need to man up and get over it, and quit blaming us because we sighed.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s a <em>good<\/em> question, because that\u2019s what I\u2019m dealing with at home now. Something is disappointing\u2014the brakes on the Jeep go bad\u2014and I [making a clicking sound with tongue]. But <em>now<\/em>, we can talk about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have a couple of jokes at our house\u2014where, if I do something like that; or I ask my husband to do something\u2014I\u2019m not <em>overtly<\/em> criticizing, but just piling on the \u201cto do\u201d list\u2014he says, \u201cI\u2019ve done that ten times already.\u201d What that means to me is\u2014even if he hasn\u2019t done it\u2014he\u2019s saying: \u201cCan you back off? You\u2019re hurting me. Even though it might not be logical for me to be hurt right now, this is my sore spot.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe should be able to have a sore spot; I should be able to recognize it. Now, I need his help to know when I\u2019m doing that. He has to agree not to be afraid of my backlash. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOccasionally, I will freak out and I\u2019ll say: \u201cWhat do you mean, you\u2019re hurt by that?! Come on! We\u2019re late for church; let\u2019s get out the door!\u201d So he has to man up and face that fear of my backlash; but give me a few minutes, and I\u2019ll come back and say: \u201cI\u2019m so sorry. Please don\u2019t give up on me,\u201d just because we\u2019ve had this pretty big perspective change.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We\u2019re not letting men off the hook, but we are\u2014you, especially, are\u2014challenging wives to think about the power they have to call men to step up, and to be God\u2019s man, and not to be critical of them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve kind of looped all the way back around to the subtitle of your book: <em>How My Husband\u2019s Porn Problem <\/em>Ruined\u2014that word, <em>Ruined<\/em>, is slashed through; and instead, it says <em>How My Husband\u2019s Porn Problem Saved Our Marriage. <\/em>What you\u2019ve just said\u2014what you\u2019ve just illustrated\u2014is how marriage was meant to be\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014two broken people, who never stop repenting and owning their own stuff, and finding a way to live out, in humility, the love of Christ in their marriage. That means you don\u2019t toss the towel in; you don\u2019t trash your covenant, because you\u2019ve failed each other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And it is how two imperfect people can go the distance in a lifetime. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMeg, I want to thank you for allowing us to peer into your relationship and being honest. Tell Joe, \u201cThanks.\u201d Tell him: \u201cThanks for caring enough about other guys for them to read this story. Maybe, they\u2019ll just repent; and their wives will as well.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. We\u2019ve got copies of Meg\u2019s book available in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. In fact, our friend, Gary Rosberg, said, \u201cMeg has penned a book that will mess with you, and that\u2019s why I\u2019m cheering her on.\u201d Someone else said, \u201cThis book is going to make some women mad, but it may save a lot of marriages.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, we\u2019ve got copies of the book, <em>Benefit of the Debt: How My Husband\u2019s Porn Problem <\/em><em>Ruined<\/em><em> Saved Our Marriage, <\/em>by Meg Miller. You can order it from us when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329 to order your copy\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of the exciting things that we\u2019re hearing around here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is people who are starting to go through our <em>Art of Parenting<\/em><sup>\u2122<\/sup> video series, or the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em> curriculum that\u2019s available online, and starting to learn and apply what they\u2019re hearing about parenting as they go through this content. The reason that\u2019s exciting for us is because our mission, here, is to provide practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families to help effectively develop godly marriages and families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe believe godly marriages and families can change the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen a resource that we\u2019ve created\u2014or a radio program that you\u2019ve listened to, an article you\u2019ve read online, an event you have attended\u2014when any of these help get you pointed in a good direction, then we cheer!\u2014that\u2019s what FamilyLife is all about. We could not do what we do if it weren\u2019t for friends, like you, who have stepped in and said, \u201cThat\u2019s a good goal; that\u2019s a good mission, and it\u2019s one we want to support.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>is a listener-supported ministry, so your donations are critical for the ongoing work of this ministry. If you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d like to express our thanks by making available to you the audiobook of Barbara Rainey\u2019s <em>Thanksgiving: A Time to Remember. <\/em>This is a narrated, dramatized telling of the first Thanksgiving\u2014something you and your whole family may want to listen to as you prepare for the Thanksgiving holiday. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTo get your copy of the audio book, go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014make an online donation\u2014or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Ask about how you can get the audio book when you get in touch with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow. We\u2019re going to talk about parenting. We\u2019re going to talk about how we win a child\u2019s heart rather than simply modifying their behavior. Paul David Tripp is going to join us, and we hope you will join us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300459","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300459"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300459"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300459"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300459"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300459"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300459"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300459"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}