{"id":300457,"date":"2018-11-12T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-11-12T17:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/my-husbands-porn-use-saved-our-marriage\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:38","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:38","slug":"my-husbands-porn-use-saved-our-marriage","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/my-husbands-porn-use-saved-our-marriage\/","title":{"rendered":"My Husband&#8217;s Porn Use Saved Our Marriage"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Meg Miller knew marriage was going to be hard when she first tied the knot. But she was shocked to find porn on their home computer. Miller tells what she felt after her discovery.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-11-12.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:10","filesize":"23.96M","filesize_raw":"25123454","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2908,2844,2827,2863],"tags":[4629,4626,4628,4624,2989,4625,4627],"podcast_series":[7264],"cwp_profile":[8863],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300457","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-forgiveness","category-pornography","category-repentance","category-saving-a-marriage","tag-betrayed","tag-effects-of-watching-ponography","tag-forgiving-your-husband","tag-porn-addiction","tag-pornography","tag-pornographys-impact-on-marriage","tag-recovering-from-pornography-addiction","podcast_series-benefit-of-the-debt","cwp_profile-meg-miller","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300457\/my-husbands-porn-use-saved-our-marriage","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300457\/my-husbands-porn-use-saved-our-marriage","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"F9yO03NsTS\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/my-husbands-porn-use-saved-our-marriage\/\">My Husband&#8217;s Porn Use Saved Our Marriage<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/my-husbands-porn-use-saved-our-marriage\/embed\/#?secret=F9yO03NsTS\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;My Husband&#8217;s Porn Use Saved Our Marriage&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"F9yO03NsTS\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-11-12.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-11-12.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Meg Miller remembers clearly the day she discovered that her husband was looking at pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I felt repulsed and disgusted, so I left\u2014and left his browsing history up for him to find. I was communicating to him: \u201cI know, and I\u2019m gone.\u201d He called right away\u2014I was on a bus. I was trying to just go as far as I could just to get away. I didn\u2019t have a plan, but I didn\u2019t want to go back <em>there<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, November 12<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. So, was this the end of Meg Miller\u2019s marriage? As we\u2019ll hear today, it was actually the beginning of a whole new chapter for the Millers. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever heard any wife say, \u201cYou know, my husband looking at porn\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014\u201cthat\u2019s saved our marriage.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> But we have one today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Meg Miller joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> to tell her story. I think our listeners are going to enjoy hearing your story, Meg. Welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Thank you so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She has written a book called <em>Benefit of the Debt<\/em>\u2014D-E-B-T. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Not <em>the Doubt<\/em>\u2014<em>the Debt<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It is a compelling story\u2014a pretty raw story. I would say\u2014if you\u2019re offended by raw stories, you won\u2019t want to get her book; but since most of us live in the midst of raw life,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and real world\u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014I think you\u2019re just going to resonate with a lot of what she\u2019s been through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe and her husband Joe were married in 2007 and live near Washington, DC. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s been fascinating to get to know a little of your story and hear Bob asking questions of you and your vocation. You\u2019re an organic farmer on the outskirts of DC; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Chicken farmers; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. That\u2019s what we produce. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And Bob has some interest because he\u2019s got a son\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No; I\u2019m thinking about opening up the backyard and putting\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014a coop out there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Sure, Bob; yes. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you and Joe were first married, Meg, you said, in your book, that you knew there\u2019d be issues\u2014you knew there\u2019d be problems in marriage. How did they first manifest themselves, early on, in your marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> You\u2019ll see the trouble right away. The first problems we had were when Joe didn\u2019t do things my way. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Has anybody told you that that is common in all marriages? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; so I knew we\u2019d have problems. I knew he wouldn\u2019t want to do things my way at first; but after some time, I thought maybe he\u2019d be able to come around. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How did the two of you meet and fall in love in the first place? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> We were ski bums in Big Sky, Montana, not following the Lord. We met and fell in love, and went our separate ways and came to know the Lord on our own. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe was farming on his family farm, and I went back to the Washington, DC, area, where my family was at the time. I really met the Lord Jesus, and He saved me from my sin\u2014the Lord Jesus did. He paid the payment that my sin required to make me right with God. The same thing happened to Joe in his own way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, we reconnected and found each other back in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, at another ski area. Boy, we were inseparable once we were both believers. We were: \u201cLet\u2019s just get married.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, how did he ask you to marry him? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> He wrote a song, and he\u2019s not a musician; so he wrote\u2014he learned one song on the guitar\u2014very romantic because of the inequity\u2014it was a <em>horrible<\/em> song, and I loved every\u2014I <em>loved<\/em> that it was horrible. [Laughter] I loved that. That was the best part\u2014that it was horrible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You said, \u201cYes.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You then began to get some pre-marriage counseling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> We did, actually. We had three sessions with our pastor, just because we were in a small church; and it was his ministry to us. We met three times\u2014talked about faith \/ how important it is to be on the same page with your faith, finances, and family. We never talked about anything else. They were one-hour sessions. We thought, \u201cHey, we are equipped.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Let me just say a word about that. This is kind of one of those: \u201cAssume nothing.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is a soapbox. You just\u2014Dennis just pulled out the soapbox based on what you just said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I did. I am, Bob, because I think couples, who get married today\u2014I don\u2019t care how prepared you may <em>think<\/em> you are\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014marriage preparation is a non-negotiable. Ask any of my sons-in-law who got one of my daughters; okay? [Laughter] I had six conversations\u2014count them\u2014not one, not two, but six. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s in addition to whatever anybody else gave them, because they were getting additional premarital preparation from other people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s exactly right. Here\u2019s the thing\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014if you\u2019re a parent, about to give away your daughter\u2014or your son about to get married\u2014make this a non-negotiable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> By the way, I would encourage you, also, to go to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway. There is a track for engaged couples in this conference; and at any conference, somewhere between five and ten percent of the audience are engaged or contemplating engagement to begin their marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, here is what I\u2019m impressed with\u2014and by the way, we\u2019ve got information about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com if you want to go there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m impressed with the fact that, with three hours of preparation, you went into marriage going, \u201cOkay; we\u2019re going to have problems,\u201d\u2014not just because you looked at the two of you and said, \u201cWe\u2019re a combustible mixture,\u201d\u2014but because you knew that marriage is going to be challenging; and problems are going to come up; and that\u2019s the normal way that marriages work. Had you thought through what those problems might be? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; and I even thought, \u201cMaybe, if 95 percent of men,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014what they say\u2014\u201cstruggle with the temptation of the eyes,\u201d then I thought my husband would probably be one of those 95 percent; but I was ready and willing to work through that with him. I never thought it might threaten my identity. Yes; I knew there would be challenges, and I was really looking forward to exercising my creativity and, especially, my verbal prowess to working through all of these\u2014all his problems\u2014together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, when did the atomic bomb go off\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014in your marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> 2010. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Three years into your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; I <em>knew<\/em> that he was staying up late, playing video games; and I knew that that\u2019s when most of these things happen\u2014that\u2019s when we\u2019re tired\u2014and that\u2019s when he\u2019s loneliest; that\u2019s when a whole day\u2019s worth of my talking is fresh on his ears. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, May 10<sup>th<\/sup>, you sat down on the computer to do something else; and his browsing history popped up? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you saw that on your computer screen\u2014and you\u2019re putting two and two together\u2014and you\u2019re going, \u201cHe\u2019s been looking at stuff,\u201d\u2014in that moment, you have to decide: \u201cDo I confront?\u201d \u201cDo I explode?\u201d \u201cDo I let it be and say nothing?\u201d What were you thinking in those moments? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I was thinking, \u201cIf I were him, what would I want?\u201d I would want to be the one doing the confessing. I decided to give him that honor by resisting the temptation to snoop further\u2014and look at apps and pick up his phone and check different browsers\u2014I stopped. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s pretty generous of you, because a lot of wives would see that and they\u2014atomic bomb\u2014they would <em>explode<\/em> in the moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Well, it was self-serving; because I <em>knew<\/em>, if I did that, he would hold some back. If I searched and found 80 percent of it, he would hold the 20; and the 20 is a seed for the next rest of our lives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI knew that, if I gave him the chance to bring it all\u2014I say: \u201cHey, I found something. I do know that you\u2019ve been looking at stuff. How open do you want to be now?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What was the size of the amount of material that you became aware of? Was it a large\u2014a large batch of pornography? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> It was not quantity but variety that really broke my heart\u2014of the different things that I found on our browsing history. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, did you sit down with him at dinner and just say, \u201cI found some stuff on the computer\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I got out of the house\u2014I felt gross in the house. I felt like it wasn\u2019t the same place when I had first walked in the door. It was a different place when I left, so I really wanted to get away from there. I was dealing with a lot of confusion, because I thought we were cool. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI knew that men might struggle with this; boy, but I thought it might be when I\u2019m old and\/or sick and unable to help him in that area or to be able to be the outlet for all his passions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, maybe, <em>then<\/em> he might stumble. I didn\u2019t think it would be three years into the marriage, when I\u2019m still pretty fresh-faced and happy when I come home; and I\u2019m still pretty capable of making a good meal. I didn\u2019t expect it to be so soon. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI left and left his browsing history up for him to find. I was communicating to him: \u201cI know, and I\u2019m gone.\u201d He called right away, and I was on a bus. I was trying to just go as far as I could just to get away. I didn\u2019t have a plan, but I didn\u2019t want to go back <em>there<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Hold it\u2014a bus?\u2014like a Greyhound to another city? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> It was a metro bus to a train; yes. I was at a\u2014I eventually\u2014as we were talking on the phone, I was on my way to a train station\u2014made it to a train station. I had enough money to get pretty far away\u2014and a few nights of hotel stay before I figured out what else to do. No kids involved at this point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, you were kind of counting your cost of what you were going to do. You said you were cool\u2014you and Joe were cool. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I thought so; so I was very confused to find out that he needed comfort elsewhere, because I thought we were cool. That brought up a lot of questions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, when he called you, what did he say? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> \u201cLet\u2019s talk about this. Don\u2019t go.\u201d I have been known to break up with a guy and not look back, so he thought that was what was happening. Also\u2014he also knew that I had\u2014I think I had threatened him before: \u201cIf ever that happens, I\u2019m not going to put up with it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, he thought in the moment, \u201cMy marriage could be over\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; we both could, because I was just so disgusted\u2014I didn\u2019t really want to deal with that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you thinking your marriage might be over? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I was thinking it could be depending on\u2014you never know\u2014a wife never knows how deep or big this is going to be. Over the next few days and weeks, I knew more would come out, and I knew I would decide then. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I would imagine there is a listener\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014a male listener\u2014who just might need to hear how you received those images and \u201cHow did that impact you, as a wife?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Listen carefully. [Emotion in voice] It feels like the worst betrayal, and confusion, and aloneness, and worthlessness. Even if that\u2019s not what you want to convey\u2014you don\u2019t want to hurt anybody; you just want to look at a few things or believe a few lies for a few minutes\u2014but to a wife, who you have pledged your attention to forever, it feels like the end of everything good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You indicated that this was like a domino that fell and that this spun you off into an identity crisis. Unpack that\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014what do you mean by that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I thought I had <em>known<\/em> where my values lay and that I could be strong enough. Either with him or without him, I could be strong enough. I could be happy whether or not his behavior was up to my par. I thought I would be able to handle something like this, and I was very surprised to find I couldn\u2019t. I was so surprised at the power of my own hurt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had put myself, hypothetically, in the position of women finding this before. I felt a little stung\u2014like: \u201cWhat would it feel like? It would hurt\u2026\u201d\u2014but, boy, I was really surprised when it actually happened. For some reason, it was way bigger. It was <em>so big<\/em> that it surprised me and alarmed me. It woke me up to something\u2014that: \u201cMaybe I should be curious about something. Maybe, I should pay attention to this hurt.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, Bob, we hear about the porn crisis\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014in our country, and we always think: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIt is somebody else\u2014it\u2019s somebody else\u2019s home.\u201d Yet, just sitting across the table, looking at the expression on Meg\u2019s face, of reliving that pain\u2014you know, here\u2019s the thing: \u201cI\u2019m broken; you\u2019re broken. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cMeg\u2019s broken. We\u2019re all broken human beings. We are in need of a Savior.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the starting point\u2014you\u2019ve got to admit you need a Savior to save you from yourself, and your sins, and how you\u2019ve offended God and get right with Him; but after that, this is the most sacred commitment two people on earth ever make to one another\u2014a man and a woman pledging that they\u2019re going to leave their mother and father, cleave, forge a covenant with each other\u2014a promise\/a commitment\u2014and that they are going to become one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you see something like this invade a marriage, it really creates a division in this marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014oneness is very difficult to achieve. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, because marriage has such great capacity for intimacy, and love, and connectedness, it also has the greatest capacity of any relationship for hurt and pain to occur; because nobody can hurt you as deeply as your spouse can hurt you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when Joe calls and says, \u201cDon\u2019t leave,\u201d did your heart soften? Did you say, \u201cOkay; I\u2019ll turn around\u2014take another bus back home\u201d? What did you do? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> We had a strong support system around us. Someone gave us tickets to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway\u2014I agreed to that. He said, \u201cWould you just do marriage counseling with me, and would you do a weekend away\u2014a weekend getaway?\u201d I said: \u201cSure, but no promises after that. It all depends on how much else is coming out.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStuff still does come out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe doesn\u2019t remember all of it in the moment, sometimes; or he does and doesn\u2019t feel safe. He might\u2014understandably, might lose everything that\u2019s real in his life; so I can understand. I wanted to give him a little time to make sure he wanted to bring everything out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when he said, \u201cLet\u2019s think about this,\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay; counseling\u2014sure,\u201d but I had heard something in his voice. I heard something very interesting. He was really relieved and free\u2014connected. He was hopeful\u2014almost, oddly, excited. He was worried about me and worried about us; but I could tell the heavy cloak of secrecy was gone, and he felt good about that. I liked hearing that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019re smiling now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I liked hearing that for his sake. I still loved him\u2014I would love him to have that freedom. Now, I was just a pile of roadkill, though. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would have to\u2014I don\u2019t know what I\u2019d have to do\u2014but some miracle would have to happen for me; but at least, he is free. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, showing up\u00a0 at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway, two weeks after you\u2019ve discovered porn on his computer, I\u2019m thinking that may not have been a weekend to remember for you\u2014[Laughter]\u2014or maybe a different kind of weekend to remember than a lot of couples experience. What was that like? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Well, if you think about his openness and excitement now, he is in a great position to go to that. He still uses the things that he learned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019re touching on something, though, that I don\u2019t want our listeners to miss; and that is, when a man is found out and does begin the process of coming clean, there is a <em>rush<\/em> of relief. At that point, he may begin to feel the relief, but it is the exact <em>opposite<\/em> of what his <em>wife<\/em> is feeling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Comment on that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Oh, it\u2019s awful; and then\u2014especially, if it goes on for a while and it doesn\u2019t\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you don\u2019t feel healing right away\u2014or especially, if you make the choice to forgive your husband and he\u2014and you don\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> forgiveness; you\u2019re still hurt. It\u2019s a disconnect\u2014everything opposite of what he is feeling. Instead of a relief, I feel now oppressed\u2014<em>fearful<\/em> of what\u2019s going to happen \/ what else will come out. I felt repulsed and disgusted. I really didn\u2019t want to\u2014I didn\u2019t want to hold his hand; I didn\u2019t want to look at him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was everything he was not. Unfortunately, as time went by, that gap widened. I became\u2014not more hurt\u2014but I didn\u2019t get better as he did get. He sought help and got better quickly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Did you nurse the hurt, at that point\u2014as in kind of feed it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I felt that temptation, and I resisted it. I did want to do that, because there was a little lie in my mind that said that would feel good; but I knew it wouldn\u2019t\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014just like snooping wouldn\u2019t make me feel better; finding out more wouldn\u2019t feel better. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI joined a support group of women, who were also dealing with similar sexual sins in their husbands. They encouraged me to find out more, and to snoop more, and to feed the hurt by comforting myself and medicating: shopping, overeating, movie nights\u2014again, and again, and again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, what you are describing is really the seeds of forgiveness; because forgiveness gives up the right to punish another person. You didn\u2019t nurse the hurt; you didn\u2019t feed the resentment, but you still felt hurt. It would have been\u2014I think it would have been wrong to have not allowed yourself to feel the disgust, the hurt, the betrayal, the loss of trust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yet, Ephesians, Chapter 4\u2014the last verse says, \u201cBe kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.\u201d Meg, as I\u2019m listening to you tell that story, and looking at your face, you may have not forgiven him at that point; but what I hear you describing\u2014and as I look at your face\u2014I hear you talking about the beginning steps of, ultimately, getting to giving up the right to punish him and make him hurt because you hurt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m just curious\u2014in this process, how long from when you found something on his browser history until the point, where your heart started to soften toward him\u2014and it wasn\u2019t all fixed; but you were\u2014you were where you were going, \u201cOkay; I have hope again for what this marriage can be,\u201d\u2014was that\u2014was that hours, or days, or weeks, or months? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> That was a few weeks later, but that feeling went away right away as soon as it came. I softened and then, instantly, hardened again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because of the protection of your own heart, going, \u201cI can\u2019t allow this to happen again\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cIf I do that, I\u2019m condoning it\u201d; or \u201cIf I do that, I\u2019m ignoring it\u201d; or \u201cIf I do that, I\u2019m believing the lies that I\u2019m worthless\u201d and \u201cHe gets to destroy the family, eventually,\u201d because I knew that, if it went on, it would destroy the family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I really like the fact that your book, <em>Benefit of the Debt<\/em>, looks with clear eyes at your husband\u2019s sin\/his betrayal\u2014which is real, and valid, and not to be minimized\u2014but the work that God did in your life, to say: \u201cHang on; this is not just his issue. It\u2019s your issue together.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s a part of the equation here that\u2019s got to be considered\u2014not that you caused him to sin; that\u2019s his choice\u2014but when two become one, there are two sides to this equation; and we\u2019ve got to look at your side of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGary Chapman wrote about your book\u2014he said, \u201cIf you\u2019re a woman, who has a husband hooked on porn, this book may make you mad; but it will also make you think.\u201d I would encourage listeners\u2014get a copy of Meg\u2019s book, <em>Benefit of the Debt<\/em>. Read about her story and just ask God to speak to you through the book. We\u2019ve got it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. Again, the title of the book is <em>Benefit of the Debt: How My Husband\u2019s Porn Problem <\/em><em>Ruined<\/em><em> Saved Our Marriage<\/em>. You can order the book, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order at 1-800-358-6329\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy now, I\u2019m sure you have realized that we have an early Thanksgiving this year; because of the way the calendar falls. In fact, I think this is the earliest that Thanksgiving can be, maybe. The good thing is\u2014it has all thinking about gratitude and thankfulness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things we are thankful for, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> is those of you who partner with us to help extend the reach and the impact of this ministry. Every time you make a donation to support the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, you are helping tens of thousands of marriages and families all around the country\u2014all around the world\u2014receive practical biblical help and hope because of your financial support. In fact, you think about the husbands and wives, who are listening today to what we\u2019re talking about, and how this conversation might turn their marriage in a whole new direction. It might bring hidden sin out in the open; it might force some issues onto the table that were hidden before this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur goal, here, at FamilyLife is to effectively develop godly marriages and families. This is a goal we could not accomplish if it weren\u2019t for your partnership. So, we\u2019d like to ask you to go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and make a donation to help support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You can also call to make a donation. Our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY; or you can mail your donation to us at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re able to help with a donation, we\u2019d like to help you with your Thanksgiving plans by making available to you the audio book, <em>Thanksgiving: A Time to Remember<\/em>. It\u2019s a dramatized, narrated version of Barbara Rainey\u2019s book about the first Thanksgiving\u2014something the whole family can listen to as you travel over the holidays or as you prepare for Thanksgiving in your home. That\u2019s our thank-you gift to you when you donate to support this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of the details of how you can get the audio book are available, online, or just ask about it when you call us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow as we will continue talking with Meg Miller about how God turned her heart and her marriage around after she learned that her husband had been looking at pornography. That comes up tomorrow. I hope you can be with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:10"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.96M"],"filesize_raw":["25123454"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-300457.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-300457.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Miller knew marriage was going to be hard when she first tied the knot. But she was shocked to find porn on their home computer. Miller tells what she felt after her discovery.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-11-12.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Meg Miller remembers clearly the day she discovered that her husband was looking at pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I felt repulsed and disgusted, so I left\u2014and left his browsing history up for him to find. I was communicating to him: \u201cI know, and I\u2019m gone.\u201d He called right away\u2014I was on a bus. I was trying to just go as far as I could just to get away. I didn\u2019t have a plan, but I didn\u2019t want to go back <em>there<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, November 12<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I\u2019m Bob Lepine. So, was this the end of Meg Miller\u2019s marriage? As we\u2019ll hear today, it was actually the beginning of a whole new chapter for the Millers. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever heard any wife say, \u201cYou know, my husband looking at porn\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014\u201cthat\u2019s saved our marriage.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> But we have one today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Meg Miller joins us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> to tell her story. I think our listeners are going to enjoy hearing your story, Meg. Welcome to the broadcast. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Thank you so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> She has written a book called <em>Benefit of the Debt<\/em>\u2014D-E-B-T. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Not <em>the Doubt<\/em>\u2014<em>the Debt<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It is a compelling story\u2014a pretty raw story. I would say\u2014if you\u2019re offended by raw stories, you won\u2019t want to get her book; but since most of us live in the midst of raw life,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and real world\u2014yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014I think you\u2019re just going to resonate with a lot of what she\u2019s been through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe and her husband Joe were married in 2007 and live near Washington, DC. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s been fascinating to get to know a little of your story and hear Bob asking questions of you and your vocation. You\u2019re an organic farmer on the outskirts of DC; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Chicken farmers; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. That\u2019s what we produce. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And Bob has some interest because he\u2019s got a son\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No; I\u2019m thinking about opening up the backyard and putting\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014a coop out there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Sure, Bob; yes. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you and Joe were first married, Meg, you said, in your book, that you knew there\u2019d be issues\u2014you knew there\u2019d be problems in marriage. How did they first manifest themselves, early on, in your marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> You\u2019ll see the trouble right away. The first problems we had were when Joe didn\u2019t do things my way. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Has anybody told you that that is common in all marriages? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; so I knew we\u2019d have problems. I knew he wouldn\u2019t want to do things my way at first; but after some time, I thought maybe he\u2019d be able to come around. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How did the two of you meet and fall in love in the first place? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> We were ski bums in Big Sky, Montana, not following the Lord. We met and fell in love, and went our separate ways and came to know the Lord on our own. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe was farming on his family farm, and I went back to the Washington, DC, area, where my family was at the time. I really met the Lord Jesus, and He saved me from my sin\u2014the Lord Jesus did. He paid the payment that my sin required to make me right with God. The same thing happened to Joe in his own way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, we reconnected and found each other back in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, at another ski area. Boy, we were inseparable once we were both believers. We were: \u201cLet\u2019s just get married.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, how did he ask you to marry him? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> He wrote a song, and he\u2019s not a musician; so he wrote\u2014he learned one song on the guitar\u2014very romantic because of the inequity\u2014it was a <em>horrible<\/em> song, and I loved every\u2014I <em>loved<\/em> that it was horrible. [Laughter] I loved that. That was the best part\u2014that it was horrible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You said, \u201cYes.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You then began to get some pre-marriage counseling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> We did, actually. We had three sessions with our pastor, just because we were in a small church; and it was his ministry to us. We met three times\u2014talked about faith \/ how important it is to be on the same page with your faith, finances, and family. We never talked about anything else. They were one-hour sessions. We thought, \u201cHey, we are equipped.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Let me just say a word about that. This is kind of one of those: \u201cAssume nothing.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is a soapbox. You just\u2014Dennis just pulled out the soapbox based on what you just said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I did. I am, Bob, because I think couples, who get married today\u2014I don\u2019t care how prepared you may <em>think<\/em> you are\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014marriage preparation is a non-negotiable. Ask any of my sons-in-law who got one of my daughters; okay? [Laughter] I had six conversations\u2014count them\u2014not one, not two, but six. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s in addition to whatever anybody else gave them, because they were getting additional premarital preparation from other people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That\u2019s exactly right. Here\u2019s the thing\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014if you\u2019re a parent, about to give away your daughter\u2014or your son about to get married\u2014make this a non-negotiable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> By the way, I would encourage you, also, to go to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway. There is a track for engaged couples in this conference; and at any conference, somewhere between five and ten percent of the audience are engaged or contemplating engagement to begin their marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, here is what I\u2019m impressed with\u2014and by the way, we\u2019ve got information about the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com if you want to go there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m impressed with the fact that, with three hours of preparation, you went into marriage going, \u201cOkay; we\u2019re going to have problems,\u201d\u2014not just because you looked at the two of you and said, \u201cWe\u2019re a combustible mixture,\u201d\u2014but because you knew that marriage is going to be challenging; and problems are going to come up; and that\u2019s the normal way that marriages work. Had you thought through what those problems might be? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; and I even thought, \u201cMaybe, if 95 percent of men,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014what they say\u2014\u201cstruggle with the temptation of the eyes,\u201d then I thought my husband would probably be one of those 95 percent; but I was ready and willing to work through that with him. I never thought it might threaten my identity. Yes; I knew there would be challenges, and I was really looking forward to exercising my creativity and, especially, my verbal prowess to working through all of these\u2014all his problems\u2014together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, when did the atomic bomb go off\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014in your marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> 2010. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Three years into your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; I <em>knew<\/em> that he was staying up late, playing video games; and I knew that that\u2019s when most of these things happen\u2014that\u2019s when we\u2019re tired\u2014and that\u2019s when he\u2019s loneliest; that\u2019s when a whole day\u2019s worth of my talking is fresh on his ears. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, May 10<sup>th<\/sup>, you sat down on the computer to do something else; and his browsing history popped up? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you saw that on your computer screen\u2014and you\u2019re putting two and two together\u2014and you\u2019re going, \u201cHe\u2019s been looking at stuff,\u201d\u2014in that moment, you have to decide: \u201cDo I confront?\u201d \u201cDo I explode?\u201d \u201cDo I let it be and say nothing?\u201d What were you thinking in those moments? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I was thinking, \u201cIf I were him, what would I want?\u201d I would want to be the one doing the confessing. I decided to give him that honor by resisting the temptation to snoop further\u2014and look at apps and pick up his phone and check different browsers\u2014I stopped. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s pretty generous of you, because a lot of wives would see that and they\u2014atomic bomb\u2014they would <em>explode<\/em> in the moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Well, it was self-serving; because I <em>knew<\/em>, if I did that, he would hold some back. If I searched and found 80 percent of it, he would hold the 20; and the 20 is a seed for the next rest of our lives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI knew that, if I gave him the chance to bring it all\u2014I say: \u201cHey, I found something. I do know that you\u2019ve been looking at stuff. How open do you want to be now?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What was the size of the amount of material that you became aware of? Was it a large\u2014a large batch of pornography? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> It was not quantity but variety that really broke my heart\u2014of the different things that I found on our browsing history. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, did you sit down with him at dinner and just say, \u201cI found some stuff on the computer\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I got out of the house\u2014I felt gross in the house. I felt like it wasn\u2019t the same place when I had first walked in the door. It was a different place when I left, so I really wanted to get away from there. I was dealing with a lot of confusion, because I thought we were cool. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI knew that men might struggle with this; boy, but I thought it might be when I\u2019m old and\/or sick and unable to help him in that area or to be able to be the outlet for all his passions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, maybe, <em>then<\/em> he might stumble. I didn\u2019t think it would be three years into the marriage, when I\u2019m still pretty fresh-faced and happy when I come home; and I\u2019m still pretty capable of making a good meal. I didn\u2019t expect it to be so soon. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI left and left his browsing history up for him to find. I was communicating to him: \u201cI know, and I\u2019m gone.\u201d He called right away, and I was on a bus. I was trying to just go as far as I could just to get away. I didn\u2019t have a plan, but I didn\u2019t want to go back <em>there<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Hold it\u2014a bus?\u2014like a Greyhound to another city? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> It was a metro bus to a train; yes. I was at a\u2014I eventually\u2014as we were talking on the phone, I was on my way to a train station\u2014made it to a train station. I had enough money to get pretty far away\u2014and a few nights of hotel stay before I figured out what else to do. No kids involved at this point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, you were kind of counting your cost of what you were going to do. You said you were cool\u2014you and Joe were cool. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I thought so; so I was very confused to find out that he needed comfort elsewhere, because I thought we were cool. That brought up a lot of questions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, when he called you, what did he say? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> \u201cLet\u2019s talk about this. Don\u2019t go.\u201d I have been known to break up with a guy and not look back, so he thought that was what was happening. Also\u2014he also knew that I had\u2014I think I had threatened him before: \u201cIf ever that happens, I\u2019m not going to put up with it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, he thought in the moment, \u201cMy marriage could be over\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; we both could, because I was just so disgusted\u2014I didn\u2019t really want to deal with that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you thinking your marriage might be over? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I was thinking it could be depending on\u2014you never know\u2014a wife never knows how deep or big this is going to be. Over the next few days and weeks, I knew more would come out, and I knew I would decide then. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I would imagine there is a listener\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014a male listener\u2014who just might need to hear how you received those images and \u201cHow did that impact you, as a wife?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Listen carefully. [Emotion in voice] It feels like the worst betrayal, and confusion, and aloneness, and worthlessness. Even if that\u2019s not what you want to convey\u2014you don\u2019t want to hurt anybody; you just want to look at a few things or believe a few lies for a few minutes\u2014but to a wife, who you have pledged your attention to forever, it feels like the end of everything good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You indicated that this was like a domino that fell and that this spun you off into an identity crisis. Unpack that\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014what do you mean by that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I thought I had <em>known<\/em> where my values lay and that I could be strong enough. Either with him or without him, I could be strong enough. I could be happy whether or not his behavior was up to my par. I thought I would be able to handle something like this, and I was very surprised to find I couldn\u2019t. I was so surprised at the power of my own hurt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had put myself, hypothetically, in the position of women finding this before. I felt a little stung\u2014like: \u201cWhat would it feel like? It would hurt\u2026\u201d\u2014but, boy, I was really surprised when it actually happened. For some reason, it was way bigger. It was <em>so big<\/em> that it surprised me and alarmed me. It woke me up to something\u2014that: \u201cMaybe I should be curious about something. Maybe, I should pay attention to this hurt.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, Bob, we hear about the porn crisis\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014in our country, and we always think: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIt is somebody else\u2014it\u2019s somebody else\u2019s home.\u201d Yet, just sitting across the table, looking at the expression on Meg\u2019s face, of reliving that pain\u2014you know, here\u2019s the thing: \u201cI\u2019m broken; you\u2019re broken. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cMeg\u2019s broken. We\u2019re all broken human beings. We are in need of a Savior.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the starting point\u2014you\u2019ve got to admit you need a Savior to save you from yourself, and your sins, and how you\u2019ve offended God and get right with Him; but after that, this is the most sacred commitment two people on earth ever make to one another\u2014a man and a woman pledging that they\u2019re going to leave their mother and father, cleave, forge a covenant with each other\u2014a promise\/a commitment\u2014and that they are going to become one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you see something like this invade a marriage, it really creates a division in this marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014oneness is very difficult to achieve. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, because marriage has such great capacity for intimacy, and love, and connectedness, it also has the greatest capacity of any relationship for hurt and pain to occur; because nobody can hurt you as deeply as your spouse can hurt you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when Joe calls and says, \u201cDon\u2019t leave,\u201d did your heart soften? Did you say, \u201cOkay; I\u2019ll turn around\u2014take another bus back home\u201d? What did you do? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> We had a strong support system around us. Someone gave us tickets to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway\u2014I agreed to that. He said, \u201cWould you just do marriage counseling with me, and would you do a weekend away\u2014a weekend getaway?\u201d I said: \u201cSure, but no promises after that. It all depends on how much else is coming out.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tStuff still does come out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe doesn\u2019t remember all of it in the moment, sometimes; or he does and doesn\u2019t feel safe. He might\u2014understandably, might lose everything that\u2019s real in his life; so I can understand. I wanted to give him a little time to make sure he wanted to bring everything out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when he said, \u201cLet\u2019s think about this,\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay; counseling\u2014sure,\u201d but I had heard something in his voice. I heard something very interesting. He was really relieved and free\u2014connected. He was hopeful\u2014almost, oddly, excited. He was worried about me and worried about us; but I could tell the heavy cloak of secrecy was gone, and he felt good about that. I liked hearing that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019re smiling now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I liked hearing that for his sake. I still loved him\u2014I would love him to have that freedom. Now, I was just a pile of roadkill, though. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would have to\u2014I don\u2019t know what I\u2019d have to do\u2014but some miracle would have to happen for me; but at least, he is free. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, showing up\u00a0 at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaway, two weeks after you\u2019ve discovered porn on his computer, I\u2019m thinking that may not have been a weekend to remember for you\u2014[Laughter]\u2014or maybe a different kind of weekend to remember than a lot of couples experience. What was that like? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Well, if you think about his openness and excitement now, he is in a great position to go to that. He still uses the things that he learned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019re touching on something, though, that I don\u2019t want our listeners to miss; and that is, when a man is found out and does begin the process of coming clean, there is a <em>rush<\/em> of relief. At that point, he may begin to feel the relief, but it is the exact <em>opposite<\/em> of what his <em>wife<\/em> is feeling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Comment on that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Oh, it\u2019s awful; and then\u2014especially, if it goes on for a while and it doesn\u2019t\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you don\u2019t feel healing right away\u2014or especially, if you make the choice to forgive your husband and he\u2014and you don\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> forgiveness; you\u2019re still hurt. It\u2019s a disconnect\u2014everything opposite of what he is feeling. Instead of a relief, I feel now oppressed\u2014<em>fearful<\/em> of what\u2019s going to happen \/ what else will come out. I felt repulsed and disgusted. I really didn\u2019t want to\u2014I didn\u2019t want to hold his hand; I didn\u2019t want to look at him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was everything he was not. Unfortunately, as time went by, that gap widened. I became\u2014not more hurt\u2014but I didn\u2019t get better as he did get. He sought help and got better quickly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Did you nurse the hurt, at that point\u2014as in kind of feed it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> I felt that temptation, and I resisted it. I did want to do that, because there was a little lie in my mind that said that would feel good; but I knew it wouldn\u2019t\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014just like snooping wouldn\u2019t make me feel better; finding out more wouldn\u2019t feel better. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI joined a support group of women, who were also dealing with similar sexual sins in their husbands. They encouraged me to find out more, and to snoop more, and to feed the hurt by comforting myself and medicating: shopping, overeating, movie nights\u2014again, and again, and again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, what you are describing is really the seeds of forgiveness; because forgiveness gives up the right to punish another person. You didn\u2019t nurse the hurt; you didn\u2019t feed the resentment, but you still felt hurt. It would have been\u2014I think it would have been wrong to have not allowed yourself to feel the disgust, the hurt, the betrayal, the loss of trust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yet, Ephesians, Chapter 4\u2014the last verse says, \u201cBe kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.\u201d Meg, as I\u2019m listening to you tell that story, and looking at your face, you may have not forgiven him at that point; but what I hear you describing\u2014and as I look at your face\u2014I hear you talking about the beginning steps of, ultimately, getting to giving up the right to punish him and make him hurt because you hurt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m just curious\u2014in this process, how long from when you found something on his browser history until the point, where your heart started to soften toward him\u2014and it wasn\u2019t all fixed; but you were\u2014you were where you were going, \u201cOkay; I have hope again for what this marriage can be,\u201d\u2014was that\u2014was that hours, or days, or weeks, or months? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> That was a few weeks later, but that feeling went away right away as soon as it came. I softened and then, instantly, hardened again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because of the protection of your own heart, going, \u201cI can\u2019t allow this to happen again\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Meg:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cIf I do that, I\u2019m condoning it\u201d; or \u201cIf I do that, I\u2019m ignoring it\u201d; or \u201cIf I do that, I\u2019m believing the lies that I\u2019m worthless\u201d and \u201cHe gets to destroy the family, eventually,\u201d because I knew that, if it went on, it would destroy the family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I really like the fact that your book, <em>Benefit of the Debt<\/em>, looks with clear eyes at your husband\u2019s sin\/his betrayal\u2014which is real, and valid, and not to be minimized\u2014but the work that God did in your life, to say: \u201cHang on; this is not just his issue. It\u2019s your issue together.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s a part of the equation here that\u2019s got to be considered\u2014not that you caused him to sin; that\u2019s his choice\u2014but when two become one, there are two sides to this equation; and we\u2019ve got to look at your side of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGary Chapman wrote about your book\u2014he said, \u201cIf you\u2019re a woman, who has a husband hooked on porn, this book may make you mad; but it will also make you think.\u201d I would encourage listeners\u2014get a copy of Meg\u2019s book, <em>Benefit of the Debt<\/em>. Read about her story and just ask God to speak to you through the book. We\u2019ve got it in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. Again, the title of the book is <em>Benefit of the Debt: How My Husband\u2019s Porn Problem <\/em><em>Ruined<\/em><em> Saved Our Marriage<\/em>. You can order the book, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order at 1-800-358-6329\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy now, I\u2019m sure you have realized that we have an early Thanksgiving this year; because of the way the calendar falls. In fact, I think this is the earliest that Thanksgiving can be, maybe. The good thing is\u2014it has all thinking about gratitude and thankfulness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things we are thankful for, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> is those of you who partner with us to help extend the reach and the impact of this ministry. Every time you make a donation to support the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, you are helping tens of thousands of marriages and families all around the country\u2014all around the world\u2014receive practical biblical help and hope because of your financial support. In fact, you think about the husbands and wives, who are listening today to what we\u2019re talking about, and how this conversation might turn their marriage in a whole new direction. It might bring hidden sin out in the open; it might force some issues onto the table that were hidden before this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur goal, here, at FamilyLife is to effectively develop godly marriages and families. This is a goal we could not accomplish if it weren\u2019t for your partnership. So, we\u2019d like to ask you to go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and make a donation to help support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You can also call to make a donation. Our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY; or you can mail your donation to us at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re able to help with a donation, we\u2019d like to help you with your Thanksgiving plans by making available to you the audio book, <em>Thanksgiving: A Time to Remember<\/em>. It\u2019s a dramatized, narrated version of Barbara Rainey\u2019s book about the first Thanksgiving\u2014something the whole family can listen to as you travel over the holidays or as you prepare for Thanksgiving in your home. That\u2019s our thank-you gift to you when you donate to support this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of the details of how you can get the audio book are available, online, or just ask about it when you call us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow as we will continue talking with Meg Miller about how God turned her heart and her marriage around after she learned that her husband had been looking at pornography. That comes up tomorrow. I hope you can be with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300457","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300457"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300457"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300457"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300457"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300457"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300457"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300457"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}