{"id":300385,"date":"2018-09-25T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-09-25T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/growing-compassion-and-empathy\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:34","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:34","slug":"growing-compassion-and-empathy","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/growing-compassion-and-empathy\/","title":{"rendered":"Growing Compassion and Empathy"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Milan and Kay Yerkovich | Series: How We Love | Are you emotionally connected to your spouse? Rev. Milan Yerkovich and his wife Kay, a marriage and family therapist, explain the what and how of emotional attachment. They also explain how differing people manage stress, and how each person&#8217;s style affects a marriage. The Yerkovich&#8217;s illustrate what a secure attachment looks like and tell listeners where to look to take an emotional assessment online.Show Notes &#038; ResourcesThe Love Style Quiz<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Milan Yerkovich and his wife, Kay, explain the &#8220;what&#8221; and &#8220;how&#8221; of emotional attachment. They also explain how different people manage stress differently, and how each person&#8217;s style affects a marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-09-25.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:34","filesize":"25.24M","filesize_raw":"26463659","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2082,2862],"tags":[4548,4549,4545],"podcast_series":[7250],"cwp_profile":[8852],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300385","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-communication","category-understanding-differences","tag-emotional-attachment","tag-managing-stress","tag-marriage-and-family-therapist","podcast_series-how-we-love","cwp_profile-milan-and-kay-yerkovich","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300385\/growing-compassion-and-empathy","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300385\/growing-compassion-and-empathy","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"HHuP3bdro7\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/growing-compassion-and-empathy\/\">Growing Compassion and Empathy<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/growing-compassion-and-empathy\/embed\/#?secret=HHuP3bdro7\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Growing Compassion and Empathy&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"HHuP3bdro7\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Milan Yerkovich and his wife, Kay, explain the \"what\" and \"how\" of emotional attachment. They also explain how different people manage stress differently, and how each person's style affects a marriage.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-09-25.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sometimes, the reason people get stuck in their relationship is because they\u2019ve never stopped to address the relationship <em>patterns<\/em> they\u2019ve developed over time. So what happens when only one person in a relationship wants to do the work of getting unstuck? Here\u2019s Kay Yerkovich.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> I encourage people, who are in a situation where only one person wants to grow that\u2014two things: You\u2019re responsible to God to grow no matter what your spouse does. Second, if <em>you<\/em> change, your spouse has to relate to another person. Focus on yourself; and tell your spouse you want to change and grow and be a better spouse. Sometimes, that will win them over; sometimes it doesn\u2019t, but God is faithful to help you stay the course.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, September 25<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We\u2019re going to talk today about the hard work that goes into growing personally and helping your relationship and marriage grow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur guests are Milan and Kay Yerkovich. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I wonder how many couples listening to us, or how many couples who come to our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways, would fit the pattern we\u2019re talking about this week of being emotionally unconnected as husbands and wives?\u2014functional \/ getting along okay\u2014but just not at the level of emotional connectedness that is a part of what oneness is supposed to look like in a marriage relationship?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, let\u2019s ask Milan and Kay Yerkovich for their percentage of marriages who are, as you describe, Bob. I want you to write your number down, Milan; and, Kay, I\u2019d like you to write your number down; because I don\u2019t want you cheating\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014cheating; yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and looking at each other\u2019s numbers. Do you have a number?\u2014a percentage of all marriages that are, as Bob described\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014emotionally disconnected, like we\u2019ve been talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Okay; I\u2019m ready.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got your number; huh?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you have your number, Kay?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What\u2019s your percentage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Eighty percent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Eighty.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow! You didn\u2019t plan this; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> No. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> And when I say, \u201cemotionally disconnected,\u201d I\u2019m going to add to that \u201cemotionally reactive\u201d; because we were avoidant of conflict; but there are other pairs and styles that are very <em>reactive<\/em> to each other, and anger is a big part of that kind of relationship. I think the question is: \u201cCan you have a conversation where reactivity doesn\u2019t get in the way?\u201d because you can\u2019t really be emotionally connected if you can\u2019t have a conversation or repair a rupture without a high level of reactivity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if you were talking to a couple, and they would say: \u201cYou know, we both came from homes where it was loud. We just\u2014we said\u2014and we got into fights; we shouted\u2014I mean, we both had that. So our pattern in marriage is, when we have a disagreement in marriage, we\u2019re right out front with it.\u201d They would say, \u201cWe\u2019re pretty emotionally transparent.\u201d You would say, \u201cNot necessarily\u201d? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> I would say\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> That\u2019s a great question!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s a great insight; because just because you can be loud and protest doesn\u2019t mean that the other person is really hearing you. Let\u2019s look at it from kind of a different perspective: \u201cHow do you manage stress?\u201d\u2014because, when you have to address something broken in your marriage, you\u2019re going to be stressed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAvoiders flee\u2014they detach. Pleasers freeze and get scared and try to make you happy. The ambivalent Vacillators protest, but with no resolution\u2014they\u2019re just telling you what\u2019s wrong with <em>you<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> And then the chaotic folks\u2014that come from the very traumatic homes\u2014the Controllers just get angry. They have no other emotions under that anger\u2014it\u2019s just always anger. The victims just learn to tolerate the intolerable, so they tolerate the intolerable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWith all of these ways of managing stress, there really can\u2019t be a decent conversation, where two people sit down\u2014who aren\u2019t fighting, aren\u2019t fleeing, and aren\u2019t freezing\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and they are able to sit down and talk about difficult subjects; or, when there is a hurt, they\u2019re able to repair it. Those are very important skills that you either learn growing up, or you don\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Milan, I want to go back through these five categories\u2014make sure I\u2019ve got them in my mind.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Okay; so you have the Avoider,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> \u2014which is the emotionally-distant person, who <em>flees<\/em> when there is distress,\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> \u2014or trouble, or struggle. They want to get out of Dodge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> ESPN and just tune out\u2014go passive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. But then we stop and ask: \u201cDoes that resemble Jesus? Was He emotionally avoidant?\u201d The answer is: \u201cNo; He wasn\u2019t.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> And we\u2019re supposed to grow up to resemble Christ. Kay had to ask herself, \u201cDoes this resemble\u2014does an Avoider\u2014resemble Jesus?\u201d And the answer was, \u201cNo.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then there\u2019s the Pleaser.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That was you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> That was me\u2014I was very fear-based \/ proximity seeker\u2014but for the purpose of knowing that I\u2019m okay: other-dependent for my view of self.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> \u201cIf you\u2019re smiling, then I\u2019m smiling.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> \u201cIf you like me, I like me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> \u201cIf not, I\u2019m in trouble. It\u2019s not you; it\u2019s me\u2014I\u2019m in trouble.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen there\u2019s this ambivalent\/preoccupied person, that we call the Vacillator. They are perpetually ruminating about closeness and distance in relationship. They obsess on it, because they\u2019re worried about separation and distance; then they get angry. They\u2019re the protestor, who wants things to be a certain way; and you didn\u2019t make it that way, so you\u2019re in trouble. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen there\u2019s this chaotic\/disorganized home which, according to one researcher, is a home where there is fright without solutions for the child. The child tries many different things, including, maybe, all these fore mentioned styles\u2014as adults, often flip either into the controlling, dominating person, as an adult, or the person who remains perpetually the victim in the child. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese would be what we call the insecure attachment styles. The secure attachment, which is what we\u2019re trying to grow into, which is the growth into the image of Christ. Christ was securely attached. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to grow more into His image, and that\u2019s what the journey of our sanctification is all about\u2014is maturing so we look more like Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And that secure attachment looks like what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; so it looks like Jesus! What\u2019s it look like in your marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Okay; Kay, do you want to share a thought on that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Yes; I will. We actually have an assessment, online, that\u2019s an assessment of a secure connector. I\u2019ll just give you some examples of things that I had to learn to do to become a secure connector: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA Secure Connector can name eight feelings they have on a regular basis. I couldn\u2019t do that previous to our work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA Secure Connector can repair when there\u2019s a rupture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA Secure Connector can have a conversation and control their reactivity, whether it\u2019s fight, flight, freeze, or whatever. They\u2019re able to control that and stay present.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA Secure Connector is a good listener. They\u2019re able to draw another person out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA Secure Connector is a good receiver as well as a good giver. He [Milan] was a great giver, but a terrible receiver\u2014I couldn\u2019t do either. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo that would be an example.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; we\u2019ve got a link on our website, at FamilyLifeToday.com, if folks want to take an assessment that\u2019s free, online.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There\u2019s one that\u2019s up there, and it will help them identify what their core style is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I did this, by the way, and I told my wife, \u201cThis is where I came out.\u201d She said: \u201cWell, duh! [Laughter] I could have told you that before you took a test on the whole thing!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So where did you come out?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So I\u2019m a mix of the Avoider\/Pleaser.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s where I wind up; and she said, \u201cYes, I see both of those in how we relate to one another.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And that kind of a diagnosis, then, helps put you on a path to be able to say: \u201cWhere are the weaknesses? Where is that limiting us in our intimacy in marriage?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And \u201cHow can we deal with those things?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s what your book\u2019s all about; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> And it\u2019s about even more than that. It\u2019s about when you, the Avoider, marry someone of a different style. You will create a core pattern\u2014or bad dance\u2014that we can predict before you ever tell us what it is. And <em>this<\/em> is what explained that core dance we were talking about in our marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014where it\u2019s that same repetitive cycle; and you\u2019re thinking, \u201cWhere is this coming from?\u201d It\u2019s really coming from broken attachment styles. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod created attachment; really, what researchers did\u2014is they just looked at how sin plays out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; they just discovered how two people connect with each other.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Right! It\u2019s really two histories colliding\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> \u2014two ways of being trained colliding in a marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I like the image, because Barbara and I took a dance class.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You collided a few times; didn\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There was a collision! [Laughter] I have no rhythm, and she does. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd, by the way, if you don\u2019t know how to dance, here\u2019s my advice: \u201cCome to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019re not talking about the Foxtrot at this point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019m not; I\u2019m not. You\u2019ll still step on each other\u2019s toes. I can almost guarantee you there\u2019s going to be some missteps, because we\u2019re broken human beings.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> But you need a plan; you need an overall biblical plan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat Milan and Kay are talking about here is another way that you can also begin to get that dance together and be in rhythm.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I think part of the overlap\u2014one of the things that couples do at one of our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> getaways is they have the opportunity to, through some projects we\u2019ve created, to talk about issues that they\u2019ve probably never talked about before.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s what was happening, 15 years into your marriage, when you were starting to have some conversations\u2014and to recognize and identify things that had never been there before. When these lights started to come on for you, what was the impact in how you related to one another?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> You know, the Bible says the blessing of God is upon those who do the Scriptures, and not just hear them\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> \u2014so James 1:19: \u201cBe quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was the hardest thing in the world for me to listen to Kay. I was frightened to hear what was inside of her, and I was frightened to tell her what was inside me; but as we began to listen to one another, we, over time\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014really, I\u2019m going to say, Kay, relatively quickly\u2014[I] began to have compassion and empathy for your answers, and who you were on the inside, and your story; and you had compassion and empathy for me. We could understand where these things that we found objectionable were coming from. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe answer was empathy and compassion. All of a sudden, we had a deeper love for one another\u2014that was deeper about their history. Our God is a God of history!\u2014He doesn\u2019t forget history.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> This Bible, right here, is <em>filled<\/em> with history; and everything ties to it. I think compassion and empathy was the biggest thing that changed our relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> As you\u2019re talking, I\u2019m just thinking about Proverbs 2\u2014I just read it the other morning. It is an exhortation for us all to be on a treasure hunt. If you\u2019re on this treasure hunt that Proverbs, Chapter 2, talks about\u2014searching for wisdom\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and \u201cWisdom is godly skill in everyday living,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s how marriages go the distance! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey need God\u2019s skill, and it comes from the Book [the Bible]. As God points out in Proverbs 2, you have to search; you have to seek.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It\u2019s a lifelong process of learning the skill \/ the godly skill of loving another broken person and loving the gaps in their lives, where they need someone to accept them, and not create more fear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Yes; and I would say the greatest expression of love, Kay, is learning to listen to one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Yes! That was huge! I would add one thing to that, and that is you <em>gave <\/em>me what my parents weren\u2019t able to give me. <em>You<\/em> encouraged me to have feelings as soon as you made that shift\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> \u2014when I could accept that reality.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> \u2014when you could accept that reality.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> I mean, I was a hard nut to turn right there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t easy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> You gave me a place to have comfort.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> You know, I gave you things that your parents couldn\u2019t give <em>you<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> There\u2019s a deep bond that\u2019s created when we can be the healer of some childhood wounds that our spouse has, but we have to be able to define what they are and be vulnerable about what they are before we can invite our spouse into those places. This sounds simple when we\u2019re just saying it on air, but it was a very uncomfortable process for several years; because shifting something that you\u2019ve learned to do for the 20 years\u2014or 18\u2014that you were raised in your family and shifting that into something <em>new<\/em> means that you\u2019re going to have to step into territory that\u2019s very foreign and uncomfortable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So what you have to believe, in that moment, is that the other side of being uncomfortable is going to be better than the common comfortableness that you\u2019re in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Yes! And, if you have a bad dance, you have pain in your marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> So we say, \u201cPick your pain!\u201d Growth is painful, because you have to look at things that aren\u2019t pretty in your spouse and in yourself. You have to be willing to try something new that\u2019s very uncomfortable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if you\u2019re stuck, that\u2019s painful too. So we just encourage people: \u201cPick the pain that\u2019s productive and grow!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But Kay, there are a lot of people, who are saying: \u201cI\u2019ve got the pain, but I\u2019ve figured out how to manage it \/ how to cope with it. I\u2019d rather just kind of take it to the finish line here\u2014managing my pain\u2014than go into this uncomfortableness that you\u2019re talking about.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> There were days\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you felt that way?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> I told God, you know: \u201cGo sanctify somebody else! This is too hard!!\u201d [Laughter] I really did say that several times.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> But if I could have known where God was taking us, I would have been <em>running <\/em>instead of resisting. I did resist! I think the word that best describes our relationship now is\u2014there is a sense of <em>freedom<\/em>. You\u2019re in prison as an Avoider; you\u2019re in prison as a fearful Pleaser; you\u2019re in prison as an idealistic Vacillator. When you grow, you actually feel a sense of freedom and a deeper bond. I couldn\u2019t imagine it\u2014I\u2019d never been there!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s where God wants to take us if we\u2019re willing to go through the uncomfortable to a place that\u2019s so good we can\u2019t even imagine it. I would have to say our marriage is in a place now where I couldn\u2019t have imagined it at the 15-year mark.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> We\u2019re still growing; it\u2019s not like we\u2019re perfect. We have our days, where we\u2019re in conflict; but we know how to repair it. We have the skills to do it, and it doesn\u2019t take long to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> This sounds idealistic\u2014this conversation, at this point\u2014to a person who\u2019s listening, who is going: \u201cMy spouse and I aren\u2019t running toward the same finish line. I mean, we\u2019re not talking about being married to someone else whom you wrote a book with. I\u2019m talking about being married to someone who is singing off another song sheet. They\u2019re not in the game, spiritually, at all. I have a sense of hopelessness, because my husband\u2014or my wife\u2014doesn\u2019t share my spiritual beliefs.\u201d That hopelessness can feel pretty dark at times. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> What would you say to that person?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Well, I encourage people who are in a situation, where only one person wants to grow that\u2014two things: You\u2019re responsible to God to grow no matter what your spouse does.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Second, if <em>you<\/em> change, your spouse has to relate to another person. If <em>you\u2019re<\/em> different, your spouse is now relating to another person. Focus on yourself, and tell your spouse you want to change and grow and be a better spouse. Sometimes, that will win them over; sometimes it doesn\u2019t, but God is faithful to help you stay the course.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Are these core styles that you\u2019ve described here just something that is always a part of our personality, and we just learn how to do it in a better way?\u2014or are these things that we grow out of?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> That\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> question. This has nothing to do with your personality. This is a <em>wound<\/em>. This is an attachment injury or an attachment deficiency\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014or an attachment success\u2014based upon whether you came out of your home securely attached or with one of these five insecure styles. These are really areas that, I would say, are deficiencies that we can grow out of. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tKay, what were you going to say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> That\u2014exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Because you\u2019re no longer an Avoider. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> And I\u2019m no longer a Pleaser.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Those things don\u2019t resemble us anymore. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Right; but the great thing about attachment\u2014and it was an answer to prayer for wisdom; I don\u2019t doubt it\u2014was that it helped us to really define what was broken, at the root.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> As we began to really change those attachment styles\u2014you the Pleaser; and me the Avoider\u2014the core pattern\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> \u2014changed!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> \u2014it started to die out. That frustrating dance is no longer there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So what do you say to folks, who hear us talking about all of this, and they say: \u201cThis sounds like a lot of psychological mumbo-jumbo. The problem is we\u2019re both sinners; and we just need to turn from sin, and get rid of the selfishness, and serve one another, and love one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cThat\u2019s what marriage is supposed to be, and the rest of this just sounds like a bad episode of <em>Oprah<\/em>.\u201d [Laughter] You\u2019ve heard that!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Oh, yes; we do hear it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Of course, we have; of course, we have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are made in the image and likeness of God, and He\u2019s a highly-emotionally intelligent God. And our Christ is highly-emotionally intelligent\u2014in His humanity, He was highly-emotionally intelligent. He could take His soul and describe it\u2014He does so the night before He dies when He says to Peter, James, and John: \u201cMy soul is distressed to the point of death. Come watch and pray with Me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s the Greek word <em>psyche<\/em>, from which we get the word \u201cpsychology.\u201d It\u2019s the word, \u201csoul.\u201d He could describe His inner person and ask for something. He could ask for help. That\u2019s exactly what He did. So, the night before He died, He had self-awareness of what was going on. He had horizontal support in Peter, James, and John; and He had vertical support as He got on His knees and cried before the heavenly Father. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis isn\u2019t psychobabble. In order to be the kind of Christian we need to be, and that God <em>requires<\/em> that we be, we have to be emotionally and relationally conversant and mature. As a matter of fact, I like to refer to us as relational theologians; because God\u2019s all about relationship. How do we love Him and one another the way He wants us to if I don\u2019t have any emotions to go along with that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would have to say: \u201cThis isn\u2019t psychobabble. This is God, as the inventor of attachment; and He is the inventor of sanctification. He tells us to start some place.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> We do hear from people: \u201cWell, this sounds too much like psychology.\u201d I think we limit God. You know, when you go to the doctor, you get a diagnosis that is not in the Bible. The diagnosis is just a grouping of symptoms that they call a name to. I think it\u2019s very similar with attachment theory. It\u2019s just a bunch of researchers, who got together, and watched how sin played out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> And so, basically, what we\u2019re looking at is patterns of sin that, often, are generational. These researchers just did us a wonderful favor and gave the names and descriptions that fit so many people. God can use anything! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe certainly\u2014His Word is foundational. That is the thing that\u2014without the Holy Spirit and without the leaning on the Holy Spirit, none of this would have happened.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, I think God made us wonderfully and fearfully.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We are very complex creatures. We are made in the image of God. We only scratch the surface, here, in this limited little parenthesis between eternity-past and eternity-future called \u201ctime.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> But He has called us to love well. That\u2019s what the command of Jesus is: \u201cTo love the Lord your God with all of your heart, and to love your neighbor as yourself.\u201d And who is your closest neighbor?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Your spouse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Your spouse!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Milan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> If you don\u2019t know how to love your spouse, then I would encourage you to go on a treasure hunt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Kay:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Read Proverbs, Chapter 2\u2014I\u2019d say the whole chapter, honestly. Read it every day for 30 days. Proverbs, Chapter 2\u2014Solomon said: \u201cMy son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments within you, making your ear attentive to wisdom, and inclining your heart to understanding, and yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as a hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.\u201d It says, \u201c\u2026for God gives wisdom.\u201d Either that\u2019s true, or it isn\u2019t! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think one of the finest and most practical ways to experience the wisdom of God is in the marriage relationship between two broken, emotional, sinful, selfish human beings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow else can marriage go the distance without God intervening? It occurs when we bend our will and cry out to God, and say: \u201cHelp me to find out how to love my spouse!\u201d\u2014and also\u2014\u201c\u2026how to be the person I need to be in this marriage relationship.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, if you want to get some insight into the sin patterns that affected you and shaped how you relate to one another in marriage, go to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com and take the \u201cHow We Love Inventory\u201d that Milan and Kay Yerkovich have developed. It\u2019s free to take. You can find out more when you go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, we also have copies of the book, <em>How We Love,<\/em> and the companion workbook. This is something you may want to go through with other couples as part of a small group study. You can find out more about the resource when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com. Order it from us, online; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, you stop and think about the commands in Scripture that we love one another\u2014that we learn how to empty ourselves and care for the needs of others, not just in marriage, but in how we relate to our children, how we relate to our neighbors \/ people at church\u2014this command to love is at the heart of the gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s at the heart of all we do, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Our goal is to effectively develop godly marriages and families; because we believe godly marriages and families can change the world, one home at a time. I wish that many of you had the opportunity to be here at FamilyLife\u2014to hear the calls that we get, to read the emails that come in, the letters that we get from folks\u2014to hear how God is using <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>to mold, and shape, and grow young couples in their marriage relationship; young parents as they relate to their children; couples who are struggling or in crisis. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod is using this ministry in some <em>powerful<\/em> ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of that is because of you\u2014those of you who help support this ministry \/ those of you who fund the work that we\u2019re doing through your financial contributions. We are so grateful for your partnership with us. We want to express the gratitude that we hear, so often, from people who are being impacted by this ministry and by their fresh understanding of how the gospel affects relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis month, if you\u2019re able to help with a donation, we\u2019d love to send you, as a thank-you gift, a book written by our friend, Bryan Loritts, that\u2019s all about understanding what\u2019s at the heart of the gospel. In fact, it\u2019s called <em>The Cross-Shaped Gospel<\/em>. It\u2019s our thank-you gift when you go online today to make a donation. Our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate: 1-800-358-6329. You can also mail your donation to us if you\u2019d like.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur mailing address is <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. Be sure to ask for your copy of Bryan Loritts\u2019 book, <em>The Cross-Shaped Gospel<\/em> when you make a donation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd be sure to be back with us again tomorrow when we\u2019re going to hear, once more, from Milan and Kay Yerkovich about how we can do a better job of loving one another in marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300385","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300385"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300385"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300385"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300385"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300385"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300385"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300385"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}