{"id":300369,"date":"2018-09-12T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-09-12T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-weight-of-debt\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:33","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:33","slug":"the-weight-of-debt","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-weight-of-debt\/","title":{"rendered":"The Weight of Debt"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>At one point, D.A. and Elicia Horton had to file for bankruptcy which led them to repent of their greed. The Hortons reflect on what they would say to their younger selves about financial stewardship.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-09-12.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:44","filesize":"24.47M","filesize_raw":"25660701","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2851,2902,2862],"tags":[4523,4525,4034],"podcast_series":[7246],"cwp_profile":[8806],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300369","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-finances","category-resolving-conflict","category-understanding-differences","tag-family-backgrounds","tag-finances","tag-newlyweds","podcast_series-enter-the-ring","cwp_profile-d-a-and-elicia-horton","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300369\/the-weight-of-debt","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300369\/the-weight-of-debt","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"AIDhpD1DTq\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-weight-of-debt\/\">The Weight of Debt<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-weight-of-debt\/embed\/#?secret=AIDhpD1DTq\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Weight of Debt&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"AIDhpD1DTq\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-09-12.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-09-12.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>One of the things you ought to have a handle on, before you get married, is how to manage money; because if you don\u2019t, there\u2019s going to be trouble ahead\u2014that\u2019s what Elicia and D.A. Horton learned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>We come from poverty. We come from parents that worked hard; but when we got our money, we wanted to spend. Coming together, it was really, really hard for us to find, \u201cHow are we going to spend and stay within our means?\u201d versus spending what we don\u2019t have?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>I never thought that you could be greedy and poor\u2014I <em>never<\/em> thought that. I began to see the Scriptures, as my mirror, showing me. That\u2019s where it roots back to\u2014how I always viewed money. I always felt that there was this pool of resources, somewhere\u2014that money would just magically make itself manifest\u2014and \u201cI can buy this,\u201d \u201cI can buy that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, September 12<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. If you\u2019re married\u2014and you have a lot of bad habits when it comes to money\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that\u2019s going to put a lot of strain on your marriage relationship. We\u2019ll hear more about that today from D.A. and Elicia Horton. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I\u2019ve heard you mention that you and Barbara had been married four years when you got a short paycheck one month; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; that was the year we started FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u20141976.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And a short paycheck\u2014you get some, but not much; is that what it was?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; I mean, we are part of an organization called Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We raise our own monthly support, which pays our salaries. The only two paychecks in 40\u2014now almost 48 years of being in ministry\u2014was the year we started FamilyLife. It was a test\u2014I think it was a test to see how we would handle it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, you know, one of the things that saved us is we\u2019ve never had a lot of debt. I had a dad who, when he was 60 years old, couldn\u2019t get a Mastercard<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; you know why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He didn\u2019t have a credit record.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He did not have a credit record\u2014he never borrowed any money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So that was my frame of reference. So\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You always paid off the credit cards every month?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So that\u2019s just been the rhythm of your life. Do you know how unusual that is?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right; it\u2019s a rarity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, your story, today\u2014if you put it with where most people are today\u2014no debt\/no credit cards\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, let\u2019s ask the couple that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that knows?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014that knows about it. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tD.A. and Elicia Horton join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back to the broadcast\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Thank you for having us again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Thank you for letting us be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014all the way from north Long Beach, California. I didn\u2019t know there was a <em>north<\/em> Long Beach. Is there a south Long Beach?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s not\u2014I mean, it\u2019s Long Beach, but it\u2019s just the north side of Long Beach. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s a long beach, so\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They have written a book called <em>Enter the Ring<\/em>, and it\u2019s talking about fighting together <em>for<\/em> your marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Which is what we talk about at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway too. I mean, we help couples recognize that all couples have conflict. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s going to look different in different marriages, but we all will have times when we clash with one another\u2014we say something harsh to one another \/ we explode at one another. The question is: \u201cDo we know what to <em>do<\/em> with that when it happens? Do we know how to resolve conflict? Do we know how to <em>seek<\/em> forgiveness? Do we know how to <em>grant<\/em> forgiveness? Do we know what to do with our anger? Do we know how to bless our spouse?\u201d All of those things\u2014these are things that we take couples through at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mention that because, again, this week, we\u2019re letting our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners know\u2014if you want to register for one of our upcoming fall getaways\u2014we\u2019re going to be in more than three dozen cities across the country this fall\u2014you can register this week or next week and save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. It\u2019s a half-price offer we\u2019re making for the getaway, but we need to hear from you this week or next week if you want to take advantage of this special pricing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can find out more, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call with any questions you have: 1-800-FL-TODAY. We\u2019d love to see you at one of these getaways this fall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt would be a <em>great<\/em> opportunity for you to build some solid biblical principles into your marriage. Again, find out more at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Save 50 percent off the regular registration fee by signing up <em>now<\/em>. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou were just getting ready to ask these guys about their own experience with credit cards, and money, and stuff.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what about it? You guys are working with a new generation of marriages and families. How prevalent is the issue of debt in those families?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>It\u2019s one of the major topics of conversation. This and sexual issues are probably the top two. Even in our book, we give statistics\u2014on just marriages across the board in the United States of America\u2014how much financial stress is the top factor or causes for them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Student loans are a big part of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But a lot of people just figure the credit card is the quick way to get established in life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou borrow now and pay later, and it will all work out. And then they find, \u201cWhoops, this is harder than we thought.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Yes; there\u2019s this thing called compounding interest that nobody ever told me about! Yes\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>\u2014all those components\u2014and especially, with those who were blessed enough to go to college in our generation that\u2014you know, they want to be upwardly mobile\u2014and they come out, in addition to their degree, they get Sally Mae\u2019s: \u201cWe have six months grace until we have to start knocking off at this six-figure debt that you owe.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, when you got married\u2014the two of you got married, did you have debt you brought into the marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>I did; I had little debt\u2014see, that was the thing. I had one credit card; and the credit limit was $300, because I didn\u2019t have any credit at that time; and then I had four different bank accounts\u2014but all four of those bank accounts, which had checking and savings\u2014they all had red digits in them\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Oh wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>\u2014when I said, \u201cI do.\u201d So, I literally\/legit, did not have a <em>dollar<\/em> to my name when we got married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, Elicia, did you know about the red ink you were buying into?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>I did, and I felt like it was something that we could learn together; so when I said, \u201cI do,\u201d I didn\u2019t say, \u201cI don\u2019t,\u201d to his debt; you know? I felt like that was something that was going to become both of ours.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you didn\u2019t have any debt coming into the marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>I didn\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your parents had kind of raised you the same way Dennis\u2019s parents raised him; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>To a degree, yes; but I felt like having a savings would definitely help me if any future occurrences happened that I would have to ask my parents or anything like that. I came with <em>that<\/em> understanding. Coming together, we were just like the blind leading the blind, really. I felt like, even though I knew somewhat, I still didn\u2019t know enough in order to know how we could establish ourselves financially.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe come from poverty. We come from parents that worked hard; but when we got our money, we wanted to spend it. Coming together, it was really, really hard for us to find, \u201cHow are we going to spend and stay within our means?\u201d versus spending what we don\u2019t have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, how long into the honeymoon before you saw that there was kind of a collision course between two different people, treating money in two different ways?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Actually, it\u2019s going to come right back\u2014like maybe a couple months into our marriage. I remember getting a phone call from my mom. She had asked me if I knew anything about $200 missing from their checking account. I said, \u201cNo,\u201d and I lied. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was convicted, and I just started crying. We were about to go to bed; and Elicia was like, \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI can\u2019t believe I did something, and I\u2019m scared to tell you.\u201d She said, \u201cWhat did you do?\u201d I said: \u201cWell, you know, the church cut back my salary. I can\u2019t find a job.\u201d This is right in that transition time when I was trying to pull away out of ministry, because I didn\u2019t feel like I was qualified to be a pastor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I was working through that\u2014this is what kept me going, before we got married, from going into debt\u2014is that I would just see my parents\u2019 ATMs. I would take their bank card and go make a withdrawal, because I knew their PIN number. My dad worked third shift, so he was asleep. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had my key, walked in the house, opened his wallet, got his bank card, went to the ATM, took $200 out, and didn\u2019t tell anybody. That was a normal practice for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen my mom called and said their check bounced, I was like: \u201cWell, I don\u2019t know anything about that. Why would I?\u201d Habitual lying was a <em>serious<\/em> problem in my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I confessed to her [Elicia], she just said, \u201cAre you <em>serious<\/em>?\u201d She said, \u201cYou get on the phone and you call your mom right now, and you confess to her what you did.\u201d And I did. And my mom\u2014that\u2019s the thing about my mom\u2014she was like: \u201cI know you were lying to me, but I just prayed for the Holy Spirit to convict you. The fact that you would even call and confess, the same day, is showing that God is really working on your heart.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and that the Holy Spirit\u2019s name is Elicia. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Yes! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We\u2019ve heard about that this week; haven\u2019t we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>And I was in that deep level of embarrassment. That\u2019s what I\u2019m saying\u2014I felt like, when we got married, I was still a <em>child<\/em>, mentally, in a lot of areas. Elicia sat me down and was like, \u201cDo you not see that that is <em>stealing<\/em>?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI never really looked at it that way.\u201d It was this high level of <em>entitlement<\/em> that I had\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that I didn\u2019t think it was stealing. I felt, some way, that my parents owed me that. I don\u2019t know where that warped thinking really roots back to; but obviously, it is sin\u2014and it\u2019s like, \u201cI want what I want, and I want it <em>now<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>That was my philosophy, coming into the marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; so, a year into your marriage\u2014you\u2019ve addressed the fact that you had four bank accounts; that you had this $300-credit limit on your credit card; that you were siphoning money from your parents\u2019 account. Were you in worse shape a year into your marriage than you were the day you got married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>No; because, <em>now<\/em>, I had financial accountability in my life\u2014Elicia was my financial accountability. I grew up in an environment where my dad\u2014he worked hard \/ my mom worked out; but my dad would just count his hours, make sure his check wasn\u2019t short, and then he would hand over his check to my mom. That\u2019s what I saw; so every time that I got paid, I would just give Elicia the check and say, \u201cHey, here; here you go.\u201d I just automatically then assumed that there\u2019s this reservoir of money\u2014that I will never have a denied access to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and I can just spend it however I want, because it\u2019s always going to be there somehow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, at some point, you decided you wanted to both go to school; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And that\u2019s when student loans came into the picture?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Yes; so we got into a situation where he was struggling with wanting to get more qualified in fine education. It was a point of contention for us, because we were just\u2014we knew that our parents didn\u2019t save up for us to go. We knew we had to take out financial loans\u2014that was a big, big hurdle for us to cross\u2014but we both saw the investment that it would bring for our lives. We went into it, knowing that we would have to take out student loans; but we just felt like it was worth the investment. You know, we were going to get a biblical education. We were going to have the chance to do something further in our lives, but we just knew that was something we had to buckle into. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe actually started working for the Bible college, which kind of helped; because then it reduced our tuition costs for both of us. We kind of took advantage of that for the next two to three years after that, so we could just continue to further our education; but it was still a financial burden that we just both felt like we were going to bear together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Yes; right before that, though\u2014that\u2019s when we hit our crisis. That\u2019s when we had to file bankruptcy, and that\u2019s because we were living beyond our means. We were borrowing against the house that we had\u2014we kept thinking that that was money that we saved. Our savings account went from $20,000 down to $200 in an 18-month period; because Elicia was laid off at her job, and she couldn\u2019t find work. We had thought that $20,000 that we borrowed against our house was money saved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>That was <em>debt<\/em>\u2014it was debt connected to that. And then, when we began to recognize: \u201cWe cannot make ends meet. We have to surrender the idolatry of greed. We have to surrender the idol of living beyond our means and seeking comfort,\u201d\u2014we were not giving to our local church\u2014we were not convicted to do these things. We were just all out of order. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s when I praise God that I wasn\u2019t in ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was now just starting to be discipled, and I had a man communicating to me the precepts of Scripture, and correcting me, and challenging me, and calling out my sinfulness. For those two years, it led us to a place, where we mutually now said: \u201cWe need to file bankruptcy. We need to get out of this, and we need to walk in repentance from here on out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Did that man call you up on the financial side of things?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>He did. Yes; Pastor Mike Pyburn\u2014when he said he wanted to disciple me, I told him, \u201cI want every area of my life.\u201d The two most intimate areas was financially and sexual issues; so that\u2019s why I said, \u201cI need help and accountability, not just to grow me, theologically, but I really want to be shepherded and pastored.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd yes; he walked us through, even to the point that, when I took my first pastorate, I said, \u201cI will not even apply unless you feel that I\u2019m qualified, biblically, and that you\u2019ve seen my life over the last two years.\u201d He said: \u201cYou\u2019re a different man. You\u2019re a man pursuing God. You are not who you were those few years ago.\u201d He said, \u201cGo for it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe\u2019s been one of my biggest cheerers and supporters, even through the present day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you filed bankruptcy, what changed in the way you guys approached money after that? How did you keep from not being back in the same place, three years later?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>The initial reality was we confessed our sin. We were broken by our sinfulness. Like what Paul says in 2 Corinthians 7:9-11, we wanted to walk in the fruit of repentance. We <em>learned<\/em> how to operate with delayed gratification. We <em>learned<\/em> how to say, \u201cThat\u2019s not a necessity.\u201d We <em>learned<\/em> how to contribute to the local church\u2014not just, \u201cOh, let me just shave a little off the top,\u201d\u2014no\u2014\u201cLord, this is Yours. How does the church need assistance?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then we began to talk more and pray together more. Those practices then led our hearts to be open and charitable to other people around us in need. Rather than buying a new pair of Jordan\u2019s\u2014you know: \u201cWhat this family needs is assistance with groceries,\u201d and \u201cThat family needs help with this. Let\u2019s contribute to them, and let\u2019s come alongside them and assist them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The starting place was confessing your sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What were the sins? What was it that was sinful that had brought you to bankruptcy?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>The sin of greed I think was definitely something that we wrestled with, because we felt like\u2014again, we felt entitled. We felt like: \u201cHey, we worked hard. This belongs to us. We deserve this, so we can live within this means,\u201d and not realize it was beyond our means. I feel like the sin of greed was something\u2014and pride, initially, because we didn\u2019t want to give up these idols that we allowed to rule our hearts in those matters.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Practically speaking, how did greed and pride show up in your check book?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Entertainment was predominantly in everything that we did. We felt like: \u201cYes; we deserve\u2014we never got a chance to do this when we were younger, so let\u2019s go out to the local amusement parks.\u201d\u00a0 You know: \u201cLet\u2019s go out to the movies every weekend,\u201d \u201cLet\u2019s go out and have a shopping spree, because we deserve it. We earned this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>And not only that: \u201cLet\u2019s take trips.\u201d We\u2019d never flown or been places, so, \u201cLet\u2019s go to Orlando.\u201d And when we go to Orlando, \u201cLet\u2019s get a time share.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we didn\u2019t even <em>think<\/em> through this; we didn\u2019t <em>pray<\/em> about it. We were just like, \u201cNo; we\u2019re fine.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we got home, we began to use our home as a financial tool to get, get, get, get. It would be things like: \u201cLet\u2019s put together a new proposal to refinance the house, and we\u2019re going to get $35,000 back. So with that 35,000, we\u2019re going to put a basketball court in the back. We\u2019re going to redo the basement. We\u2019re going to put in a recording studio,\u201d\u2014like things that we did not need\u2014we were doing those things. \u201cWe need a new car. Well, let\u2019s trade up for this car,\u201d or \u201cLet\u2019s trade up for that.\u201d That\u2019s how it manifested in our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, if you\u2019re sitting down with a young D.A. and Elicia, and they say, \u201cMan, here\u2019s where we are,\u201d what kind of counsel would you give them? What kind of counsel did your pastor friend give you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>He opened up and said, \u201cLet me see your checkbook and your calendar, and I will show you who your god is.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>I was like: \u201cWow! Okay; my god is entertainment; my god is food; my god is trips,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s all these things that never died on a cross for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>There was no giving to the local church; there was no assisting of other people\u2014and it was just all about self, self, self; self. Those were the things that I began to realize. I never thought that you could be greedy and poor\u2014I <em>never<\/em> thought that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI began to see the Scriptures, as my mirror, showing me. That\u2019s where it roots back to how I always viewed money\u2014I always felt that there was this pool of resources, somewhere\u2014that money would just magically make itself manifest\u2014and \u201cI can buy this,\u201d \u201cI can buy that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You talk about giving to the local church as a priority in the midst of all of this; and you said, \u201c\u2026not just shaving a little off the top.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If somebody\u2019s looking at a mountain of student debt, and they have credit card debt, and they\u2019re trying to dig out from all of this, would you say to them, \u201cYou start by giving ten percent to the local church\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Well, I wouldn\u2019t say ten percent. What I would do is\u2014I would look at \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t2 Corinthians 8\u2014and I would say that there are four parameters for biblical giving. The reason I wouldn\u2019t say ten percent is because, sometimes, people can give way more than that; so they\u2019ll under-give. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I don\u2019t want to put a percentage on it, but what I would say is: \u201cThere are four attributes\u201d\u2014and this is how we set up the offering in our local church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe say, \u201cIt\u2019s predetermined,\u201d which means you need to sit down and look at your budget and assess\u2014James 1:17 says every stream of revenue: \u201cEvery good gift comes from the Father of heavenly lights, who is above, and there is no shifting or variation of shadows.\u201d So, God is the one who has supplied you with what you have; so it comes from Him. You need to predetermine, \u201cWhat is it we\u2019re going to give?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn addition to the predetermination, there needs to be a regular pattern\u2014if it\u2019s quarterly, if it\u2019s monthly, if it\u2019s weekly; twice a month\u2014you need to be a habitual giver to the local church. Three, there should be an element of sacrifice, because it is an act of worship to God. And then the cherry on top is: \u201cIt is cheerful.\u201d You don\u2019t do it begrudgingly; you don\u2019t do it to get a kickback\u2014He\u2019s not a jackpot Jesus. It\u2019s the reality of: \u201cWe want to see the local church reduce lostness and produce disciples. We\u2019re entrusting the leadership of this church, who are qualified according to these Scriptures, to steward the finances.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s another issue\u2014people don\u2019t trust church leadership; so they will say: \u201cI\u2019m not giving to the church! I don\u2019t trust them.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s a component\u2014there needs to be transparency with the finances and leadership to the laity so they can understand, \u201cThis is how the money\u2019s being stewarded: the budget, the books\u2026\u201d and all those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHaving that whole framework\u2014I didn\u2019t understand that when I first got married; I would explain those things to myself at that age\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014your younger self; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>\u2014and say: \u201cHey, this is what it looks like. In the midst of your debt, in addition to giving to the local church, you need to understand that you need to <em>deny<\/em> yourself from the pleasures that you\u2019re seeking that are the black hole of your checkbook.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I heard a pastor one time who said, \u201cMost Christians ask themselves the question, \u201cHow much of my money should I give to God?\u2019 rather than asking the question, \u2018How much of God\u2019s money that He\u2019s entrusted to me should I keep for myself?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you start thinking from that perspective, it\u2019s like, \u201cOh, this does change the equation; doesn\u2019t it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; it does. I\u2019m looking at you, Elicia; and I wonder about the journey that you\u2019ve watched your husband be on here\u2014how, when you married him, he didn\u2019t know how to handle money at all; and now, he\u2019s really talking like a very wise man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow has your respect for D.A. changed over these past 15 years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Yes; it definitely has evolved into where I fully see him as my under-shepherd, to lead me into a proper understanding of God\u2019s Word: \u201cHow do we apply it?\u201d\u2014just based off of all the experiences that we have experienced together, you know. There was something that I saw in him that he didn\u2019t see in himself when we first got together; and I feel like that\u2019s what helped me to kind of look into the future and see, \u201cOkay; there is hope here,\u201d versus all the things that I knew about him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJust seeing how God has definitely shaped him into the man he is today is definitely\u2014it\u2019s a gift for me to see him be used by God in the many ways he is used but also, mainly, in our home. You know, that\u2019s the biggest ministry\u2014is our home first\u2014and to see him be the husband that God has created him to be for <em>me<\/em> and the father that He has created him to be for our children is definitely something that I\u2019m just humbled to be able to see.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, I want to say\u2014D.A., both Bob and I, as we\u2019ve listened to this story this week, it\u2019s cool to hear a man, who has grown out of passivity into taking responsibility\u2014to initiating\/to loving his wife well in your relationship and children\u2014and fight through your home that you grew up in, and the weaknesses and strengths of all that\u2014but be at a place, today, that you\u2019re shepherding, not just your wife and your three children, but you\u2019re shepherding a church. I think that\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> statement of redemption; because you write in your book, <em>Enter the Ring<\/em>, that a marriage should be a picture of the gospel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The gospel is about forgiveness, redemption, and hope; and you have supplied all of those in your family and to others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Praise be to God; it\u2019s humbling to hear that. Typically, when those kinds of statements are said\u2014you know, people say, \u201cBehind every great man is a good woman.\u201d In all honesty, next to me, and fighting with me, and walking alongside me\u2014an agent of accountability, someone who convicts me of my sin, someone who loves me into repentance\u2014is my wife. I wouldn\u2019t be where I am without the Holy Spirit, who dwells in me; the infallible, inspired, inerrant Word of God that I have before me; my Savior, Christ, and His redemptive work and His patience with me; or my wife; or the community of believers, who we can confess our brokenness to, even in the present tense, and they love us, and they can spur us on to love and good deeds, which is what the author of Hebrews was saying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo praise be to God. It\u2019s not just a testimony of God\u2019s work in my life, it\u2019s a testimony of everyone that God has put in our lives that has helped refine us\u2014from our parents to our siblings to our nieces\/our nephews, and everyone that we\u2019ve ever known in our walk with Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>If you happen to live in Southern California, you don\u2019t have to be in north Long Beach to take a look at Reach Fellowship Church, right there, that D.A. gives leadership to and serves well in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI appreciate you guys. Thanks for being on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Thank you guys so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Thank you for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m guessing there are some folks, who have been listening this week, who, when they get a copy of your book, are going to go right to Chapter 7, where you talk about finances, and say, \u201cOkay; we need some help in this area.\u201d I would encourage them: \u201cMake sure you go back and read Chapters 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. All of the book is loaded with great biblical insight, along with a lot of your own experience, working out the challenges of marriage.\u201d The book is called <em>Enter the Ring: Fighting Together for a Gospel-Saturated Marriage<\/em> by D.A. and Elicia Horton. You can order a copy of the book from us when you go, online, to FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd let me just encourage you to make what I think could be the best investment any couple would ever make in their marriage relationship. Plan to spend a weekend together with us at an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. If you\u2019re a regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener, you\u2019ve heard us talk about these getaways before. You\u2019ve said, \u201cOh, we should do that someday.\u201d Don\u2019t put it off; come join us for a <em>great<\/em> romantic getaway weekend as a couple. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to be in more than three dozen cities across the country this fall. If you sign up this week or next week, you\u2019ll save some money. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve been talking about today; right? You can save 50 percent off the regular registration fee by going ahead and signing up today. You can register, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call if you have any questions or if you\u2019d like to register over the phone. Our number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf it\u2019s been awhile since you\u2019ve been to a getaway, come get a refresher. If you\u2019ve never been, come join us at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about what a young couple can do \/ the steps you can take that will help to divorce-proof a marriage. Laura Taggart\u2019s going to join us. We hope you can be back with us as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today. We got help from Keith Lynch, Justin Adams, and Mark Ramey on today\u2019s program; thank you, guys. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:44"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.47M"],"filesize_raw":["25660701"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-300369.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-300369.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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one point, D.A. and Elicia Horton had to file for bankruptcy which led them to repent of their greed. The Hortons reflect on what they would say to their younger selves about financial stewardship.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-09-12.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>One of the things you ought to have a handle on, before you get married, is how to manage money; because if you don\u2019t, there\u2019s going to be trouble ahead\u2014that\u2019s what Elicia and D.A. Horton learned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>We come from poverty. We come from parents that worked hard; but when we got our money, we wanted to spend. Coming together, it was really, really hard for us to find, \u201cHow are we going to spend and stay within our means?\u201d versus spending what we don\u2019t have?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>I never thought that you could be greedy and poor\u2014I <em>never<\/em> thought that. I began to see the Scriptures, as my mirror, showing me. That\u2019s where it roots back to\u2014how I always viewed money. I always felt that there was this pool of resources, somewhere\u2014that money would just magically make itself manifest\u2014and \u201cI can buy this,\u201d \u201cI can buy that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, September 12<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. If you\u2019re married\u2014and you have a lot of bad habits when it comes to money\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that\u2019s going to put a lot of strain on your marriage relationship. We\u2019ll hear more about that today from D.A. and Elicia Horton. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I\u2019ve heard you mention that you and Barbara had been married four years when you got a short paycheck one month; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; that was the year we started FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u20141976.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And a short paycheck\u2014you get some, but not much; is that what it was?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; I mean, we are part of an organization called Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We raise our own monthly support, which pays our salaries. The only two paychecks in 40\u2014now almost 48 years of being in ministry\u2014was the year we started FamilyLife. It was a test\u2014I think it was a test to see how we would handle it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut, you know, one of the things that saved us is we\u2019ve never had a lot of debt. I had a dad who, when he was 60 years old, couldn\u2019t get a Mastercard<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; you know why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He didn\u2019t have a credit record.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>He did not have a credit record\u2014he never borrowed any money.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So that was my frame of reference. So\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You always paid off the credit cards every month?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So that\u2019s just been the rhythm of your life. Do you know how unusual that is?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right; it\u2019s a rarity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, your story, today\u2014if you put it with where most people are today\u2014no debt\/no credit cards\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Well, let\u2019s ask the couple that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that knows?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014that knows about it. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tD.A. and Elicia Horton join us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back to the broadcast\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Thank you for having us again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Thank you for letting us be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>\u2014all the way from north Long Beach, California. I didn\u2019t know there was a <em>north<\/em> Long Beach. Is there a south Long Beach?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s not\u2014I mean, it\u2019s Long Beach, but it\u2019s just the north side of Long Beach. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s a long beach, so\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>They have written a book called <em>Enter the Ring<\/em>, and it\u2019s talking about fighting together <em>for<\/em> your marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Which is what we talk about at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway too. I mean, we help couples recognize that all couples have conflict. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s going to look different in different marriages, but we all will have times when we clash with one another\u2014we say something harsh to one another \/ we explode at one another. The question is: \u201cDo we know what to <em>do<\/em> with that when it happens? Do we know how to resolve conflict? Do we know how to <em>seek<\/em> forgiveness? Do we know how to <em>grant<\/em> forgiveness? Do we know what to do with our anger? Do we know how to bless our spouse?\u201d All of those things\u2014these are things that we take couples through at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mention that because, again, this week, we\u2019re letting our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners know\u2014if you want to register for one of our upcoming fall getaways\u2014we\u2019re going to be in more than three dozen cities across the country this fall\u2014you can register this week or next week and save 50 percent off the regular registration fee. It\u2019s a half-price offer we\u2019re making for the getaway, but we need to hear from you this week or next week if you want to take advantage of this special pricing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can find out more, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call with any questions you have: 1-800-FL-TODAY. We\u2019d love to see you at one of these getaways this fall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt would be a <em>great<\/em> opportunity for you to build some solid biblical principles into your marriage. Again, find out more at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Save 50 percent off the regular registration fee by signing up <em>now<\/em>. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou were just getting ready to ask these guys about their own experience with credit cards, and money, and stuff.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, what about it? You guys are working with a new generation of marriages and families. How prevalent is the issue of debt in those families?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>It\u2019s one of the major topics of conversation. This and sexual issues are probably the top two. Even in our book, we give statistics\u2014on just marriages across the board in the United States of America\u2014how much financial stress is the top factor or causes for them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Student loans are a big part of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But a lot of people just figure the credit card is the quick way to get established in life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou borrow now and pay later, and it will all work out. And then they find, \u201cWhoops, this is harder than we thought.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Yes; there\u2019s this thing called compounding interest that nobody ever told me about! Yes\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>\u2014all those components\u2014and especially, with those who were blessed enough to go to college in our generation that\u2014you know, they want to be upwardly mobile\u2014and they come out, in addition to their degree, they get Sally Mae\u2019s: \u201cWe have six months grace until we have to start knocking off at this six-figure debt that you owe.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, when you got married\u2014the two of you got married, did you have debt you brought into the marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>I did; I had little debt\u2014see, that was the thing. I had one credit card; and the credit limit was $300, because I didn\u2019t have any credit at that time; and then I had four different bank accounts\u2014but all four of those bank accounts, which had checking and savings\u2014they all had red digits in them\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Oh wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>\u2014when I said, \u201cI do.\u201d So, I literally\/legit, did not have a <em>dollar<\/em> to my name when we got married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, Elicia, did you know about the red ink you were buying into?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>I did, and I felt like it was something that we could learn together; so when I said, \u201cI do,\u201d I didn\u2019t say, \u201cI don\u2019t,\u201d to his debt; you know? I felt like that was something that was going to become both of ours.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And you didn\u2019t have any debt coming into the marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>I didn\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your parents had kind of raised you the same way Dennis\u2019s parents raised him; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>To a degree, yes; but I felt like having a savings would definitely help me if any future occurrences happened that I would have to ask my parents or anything like that. I came with <em>that<\/em> understanding. Coming together, we were just like the blind leading the blind, really. I felt like, even though I knew somewhat, I still didn\u2019t know enough in order to know how we could establish ourselves financially.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe come from poverty. We come from parents that worked hard; but when we got our money, we wanted to spend it. Coming together, it was really, really hard for us to find, \u201cHow are we going to spend and stay within our means?\u201d versus spending what we don\u2019t have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, how long into the honeymoon before you saw that there was kind of a collision course between two different people, treating money in two different ways?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Actually, it\u2019s going to come right back\u2014like maybe a couple months into our marriage. I remember getting a phone call from my mom. She had asked me if I knew anything about $200 missing from their checking account. I said, \u201cNo,\u201d and I lied. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was convicted, and I just started crying. We were about to go to bed; and Elicia was like, \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI can\u2019t believe I did something, and I\u2019m scared to tell you.\u201d She said, \u201cWhat did you do?\u201d I said: \u201cWell, you know, the church cut back my salary. I can\u2019t find a job.\u201d This is right in that transition time when I was trying to pull away out of ministry, because I didn\u2019t feel like I was qualified to be a pastor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I was working through that\u2014this is what kept me going, before we got married, from going into debt\u2014is that I would just see my parents\u2019 ATMs. I would take their bank card and go make a withdrawal, because I knew their PIN number. My dad worked third shift, so he was asleep. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had my key, walked in the house, opened his wallet, got his bank card, went to the ATM, took $200 out, and didn\u2019t tell anybody. That was a normal practice for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen my mom called and said their check bounced, I was like: \u201cWell, I don\u2019t know anything about that. Why would I?\u201d Habitual lying was a <em>serious<\/em> problem in my life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I confessed to her [Elicia], she just said, \u201cAre you <em>serious<\/em>?\u201d She said, \u201cYou get on the phone and you call your mom right now, and you confess to her what you did.\u201d And I did. And my mom\u2014that\u2019s the thing about my mom\u2014she was like: \u201cI know you were lying to me, but I just prayed for the Holy Spirit to convict you. The fact that you would even call and confess, the same day, is showing that God is really working on your heart.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and that the Holy Spirit\u2019s name is Elicia. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Yes! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We\u2019ve heard about that this week; haven\u2019t we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>And I was in that deep level of embarrassment. That\u2019s what I\u2019m saying\u2014I felt like, when we got married, I was still a <em>child<\/em>, mentally, in a lot of areas. Elicia sat me down and was like, \u201cDo you not see that that is <em>stealing<\/em>?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI never really looked at it that way.\u201d It was this high level of <em>entitlement<\/em> that I had\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014that I didn\u2019t think it was stealing. I felt, some way, that my parents owed me that. I don\u2019t know where that warped thinking really roots back to; but obviously, it is sin\u2014and it\u2019s like, \u201cI want what I want, and I want it <em>now<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>That was my philosophy, coming into the marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; so, a year into your marriage\u2014you\u2019ve addressed the fact that you had four bank accounts; that you had this $300-credit limit on your credit card; that you were siphoning money from your parents\u2019 account. Were you in worse shape a year into your marriage than you were the day you got married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>No; because, <em>now<\/em>, I had financial accountability in my life\u2014Elicia was my financial accountability. I grew up in an environment where my dad\u2014he worked hard \/ my mom worked out; but my dad would just count his hours, make sure his check wasn\u2019t short, and then he would hand over his check to my mom. That\u2019s what I saw; so every time that I got paid, I would just give Elicia the check and say, \u201cHey, here; here you go.\u201d I just automatically then assumed that there\u2019s this reservoir of money\u2014that I will never have a denied access to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and I can just spend it however I want, because it\u2019s always going to be there somehow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, at some point, you decided you wanted to both go to school; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And that\u2019s when student loans came into the picture?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Yes; so we got into a situation where he was struggling with wanting to get more qualified in fine education. It was a point of contention for us, because we were just\u2014we knew that our parents didn\u2019t save up for us to go. We knew we had to take out financial loans\u2014that was a big, big hurdle for us to cross\u2014but we both saw the investment that it would bring for our lives. We went into it, knowing that we would have to take out student loans; but we just felt like it was worth the investment. You know, we were going to get a biblical education. We were going to have the chance to do something further in our lives, but we just knew that was something we had to buckle into. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe actually started working for the Bible college, which kind of helped; because then it reduced our tuition costs for both of us. We kind of took advantage of that for the next two to three years after that, so we could just continue to further our education; but it was still a financial burden that we just both felt like we were going to bear together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Yes; right before that, though\u2014that\u2019s when we hit our crisis. That\u2019s when we had to file bankruptcy, and that\u2019s because we were living beyond our means. We were borrowing against the house that we had\u2014we kept thinking that that was money that we saved. Our savings account went from $20,000 down to $200 in an 18-month period; because Elicia was laid off at her job, and she couldn\u2019t find work. We had thought that $20,000 that we borrowed against our house was money saved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>That was <em>debt<\/em>\u2014it was debt connected to that. And then, when we began to recognize: \u201cWe cannot make ends meet. We have to surrender the idolatry of greed. We have to surrender the idol of living beyond our means and seeking comfort,\u201d\u2014we were not giving to our local church\u2014we were not convicted to do these things. We were just all out of order. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s when I praise God that I wasn\u2019t in ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was now just starting to be discipled, and I had a man communicating to me the precepts of Scripture, and correcting me, and challenging me, and calling out my sinfulness. For those two years, it led us to a place, where we mutually now said: \u201cWe need to file bankruptcy. We need to get out of this, and we need to walk in repentance from here on out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Did that man call you up on the financial side of things?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>He did. Yes; Pastor Mike Pyburn\u2014when he said he wanted to disciple me, I told him, \u201cI want every area of my life.\u201d The two most intimate areas was financially and sexual issues; so that\u2019s why I said, \u201cI need help and accountability, not just to grow me, theologically, but I really want to be shepherded and pastored.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd yes; he walked us through, even to the point that, when I took my first pastorate, I said, \u201cI will not even apply unless you feel that I\u2019m qualified, biblically, and that you\u2019ve seen my life over the last two years.\u201d He said: \u201cYou\u2019re a different man. You\u2019re a man pursuing God. You are not who you were those few years ago.\u201d He said, \u201cGo for it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe\u2019s been one of my biggest cheerers and supporters, even through the present day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you filed bankruptcy, what changed in the way you guys approached money after that? How did you keep from not being back in the same place, three years later?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>The initial reality was we confessed our sin. We were broken by our sinfulness. Like what Paul says in 2 Corinthians 7:9-11, we wanted to walk in the fruit of repentance. We <em>learned<\/em> how to operate with delayed gratification. We <em>learned<\/em> how to say, \u201cThat\u2019s not a necessity.\u201d We <em>learned<\/em> how to contribute to the local church\u2014not just, \u201cOh, let me just shave a little off the top,\u201d\u2014no\u2014\u201cLord, this is Yours. How does the church need assistance?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then we began to talk more and pray together more. Those practices then led our hearts to be open and charitable to other people around us in need. Rather than buying a new pair of Jordan\u2019s\u2014you know: \u201cWhat this family needs is assistance with groceries,\u201d and \u201cThat family needs help with this. Let\u2019s contribute to them, and let\u2019s come alongside them and assist them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The starting place was confessing your sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What were the sins? What was it that was sinful that had brought you to bankruptcy?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>The sin of greed I think was definitely something that we wrestled with, because we felt like\u2014again, we felt entitled. We felt like: \u201cHey, we worked hard. This belongs to us. We deserve this, so we can live within this means,\u201d and not realize it was beyond our means. I feel like the sin of greed was something\u2014and pride, initially, because we didn\u2019t want to give up these idols that we allowed to rule our hearts in those matters.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Practically speaking, how did greed and pride show up in your check book?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Entertainment was predominantly in everything that we did. We felt like: \u201cYes; we deserve\u2014we never got a chance to do this when we were younger, so let\u2019s go out to the local amusement parks.\u201d\u00a0 You know: \u201cLet\u2019s go out to the movies every weekend,\u201d \u201cLet\u2019s go out and have a shopping spree, because we deserve it. We earned this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>And not only that: \u201cLet\u2019s take trips.\u201d We\u2019d never flown or been places, so, \u201cLet\u2019s go to Orlando.\u201d And when we go to Orlando, \u201cLet\u2019s get a time share.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we didn\u2019t even <em>think<\/em> through this; we didn\u2019t <em>pray<\/em> about it. We were just like, \u201cNo; we\u2019re fine.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we got home, we began to use our home as a financial tool to get, get, get, get. It would be things like: \u201cLet\u2019s put together a new proposal to refinance the house, and we\u2019re going to get $35,000 back. So with that 35,000, we\u2019re going to put a basketball court in the back. We\u2019re going to redo the basement. We\u2019re going to put in a recording studio,\u201d\u2014like things that we did not need\u2014we were doing those things. \u201cWe need a new car. Well, let\u2019s trade up for this car,\u201d or \u201cLet\u2019s trade up for that.\u201d That\u2019s how it manifested in our lives.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So, if you\u2019re sitting down with a young D.A. and Elicia, and they say, \u201cMan, here\u2019s where we are,\u201d what kind of counsel would you give them? What kind of counsel did your pastor friend give you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>He opened up and said, \u201cLet me see your checkbook and your calendar, and I will show you who your god is.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>I was like: \u201cWow! Okay; my god is entertainment; my god is food; my god is trips,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s all these things that never died on a cross for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>There was no giving to the local church; there was no assisting of other people\u2014and it was just all about self, self, self; self. Those were the things that I began to realize. I never thought that you could be greedy and poor\u2014I <em>never<\/em> thought that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI began to see the Scriptures, as my mirror, showing me. That\u2019s where it roots back to how I always viewed money\u2014I always felt that there was this pool of resources, somewhere\u2014that money would just magically make itself manifest\u2014and \u201cI can buy this,\u201d \u201cI can buy that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You talk about giving to the local church as a priority in the midst of all of this; and you said, \u201c\u2026not just shaving a little off the top.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If somebody\u2019s looking at a mountain of student debt, and they have credit card debt, and they\u2019re trying to dig out from all of this, would you say to them, \u201cYou start by giving ten percent to the local church\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Well, I wouldn\u2019t say ten percent. What I would do is\u2014I would look at \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t2 Corinthians 8\u2014and I would say that there are four parameters for biblical giving. The reason I wouldn\u2019t say ten percent is because, sometimes, people can give way more than that; so they\u2019ll under-give. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo I don\u2019t want to put a percentage on it, but what I would say is: \u201cThere are four attributes\u201d\u2014and this is how we set up the offering in our local church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe say, \u201cIt\u2019s predetermined,\u201d which means you need to sit down and look at your budget and assess\u2014James 1:17 says every stream of revenue: \u201cEvery good gift comes from the Father of heavenly lights, who is above, and there is no shifting or variation of shadows.\u201d So, God is the one who has supplied you with what you have; so it comes from Him. You need to predetermine, \u201cWhat is it we\u2019re going to give?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn addition to the predetermination, there needs to be a regular pattern\u2014if it\u2019s quarterly, if it\u2019s monthly, if it\u2019s weekly; twice a month\u2014you need to be a habitual giver to the local church. Three, there should be an element of sacrifice, because it is an act of worship to God. And then the cherry on top is: \u201cIt is cheerful.\u201d You don\u2019t do it begrudgingly; you don\u2019t do it to get a kickback\u2014He\u2019s not a jackpot Jesus. It\u2019s the reality of: \u201cWe want to see the local church reduce lostness and produce disciples. We\u2019re entrusting the leadership of this church, who are qualified according to these Scriptures, to steward the finances.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s another issue\u2014people don\u2019t trust church leadership; so they will say: \u201cI\u2019m not giving to the church! I don\u2019t trust them.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s a component\u2014there needs to be transparency with the finances and leadership to the laity so they can understand, \u201cThis is how the money\u2019s being stewarded: the budget, the books\u2026\u201d and all those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHaving that whole framework\u2014I didn\u2019t understand that when I first got married; I would explain those things to myself at that age\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014your younger self; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>\u2014and say: \u201cHey, this is what it looks like. In the midst of your debt, in addition to giving to the local church, you need to understand that you need to <em>deny<\/em> yourself from the pleasures that you\u2019re seeking that are the black hole of your checkbook.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I heard a pastor one time who said, \u201cMost Christians ask themselves the question, \u201cHow much of my money should I give to God?\u2019 rather than asking the question, \u2018How much of God\u2019s money that He\u2019s entrusted to me should I keep for myself?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you start thinking from that perspective, it\u2019s like, \u201cOh, this does change the equation; doesn\u2019t it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; it does. I\u2019m looking at you, Elicia; and I wonder about the journey that you\u2019ve watched your husband be on here\u2014how, when you married him, he didn\u2019t know how to handle money at all; and now, he\u2019s really talking like a very wise man. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow has your respect for D.A. changed over these past 15 years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Yes; it definitely has evolved into where I fully see him as my under-shepherd, to lead me into a proper understanding of God\u2019s Word: \u201cHow do we apply it?\u201d\u2014just based off of all the experiences that we have experienced together, you know. There was something that I saw in him that he didn\u2019t see in himself when we first got together; and I feel like that\u2019s what helped me to kind of look into the future and see, \u201cOkay; there is hope here,\u201d versus all the things that I knew about him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJust seeing how God has definitely shaped him into the man he is today is definitely\u2014it\u2019s a gift for me to see him be used by God in the many ways he is used but also, mainly, in our home. You know, that\u2019s the biggest ministry\u2014is our home first\u2014and to see him be the husband that God has created him to be for <em>me<\/em> and the father that He has created him to be for our children is definitely something that I\u2019m just humbled to be able to see.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So, I want to say\u2014D.A., both Bob and I, as we\u2019ve listened to this story this week, it\u2019s cool to hear a man, who has grown out of passivity into taking responsibility\u2014to initiating\/to loving his wife well in your relationship and children\u2014and fight through your home that you grew up in, and the weaknesses and strengths of all that\u2014but be at a place, today, that you\u2019re shepherding, not just your wife and your three children, but you\u2019re shepherding a church. I think that\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> statement of redemption; because you write in your book, <em>Enter the Ring<\/em>, that a marriage should be a picture of the gospel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The gospel is about forgiveness, redemption, and hope; and you have supplied all of those in your family and to others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Praise be to God; it\u2019s humbling to hear that. Typically, when those kinds of statements are said\u2014you know, people say, \u201cBehind every great man is a good woman.\u201d In all honesty, next to me, and fighting with me, and walking alongside me\u2014an agent of accountability, someone who convicts me of my sin, someone who loves me into repentance\u2014is my wife. I wouldn\u2019t be where I am without the Holy Spirit, who dwells in me; the infallible, inspired, inerrant Word of God that I have before me; my Savior, Christ, and His redemptive work and His patience with me; or my wife; or the community of believers, who we can confess our brokenness to, even in the present tense, and they love us, and they can spur us on to love and good deeds, which is what the author of Hebrews was saying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo praise be to God. It\u2019s not just a testimony of God\u2019s work in my life, it\u2019s a testimony of everyone that God has put in our lives that has helped refine us\u2014from our parents to our siblings to our nieces\/our nephews, and everyone that we\u2019ve ever known in our walk with Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>If you happen to live in Southern California, you don\u2019t have to be in north Long Beach to take a look at Reach Fellowship Church, right there, that D.A. gives leadership to and serves well in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI appreciate you guys. Thanks for being on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elicia: <\/strong>Thank you guys so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>D.A.: <\/strong>Thank you for having us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m guessing there are some folks, who have been listening this week, who, when they get a copy of your book, are going to go right to Chapter 7, where you talk about finances, and say, \u201cOkay; we need some help in this area.\u201d I would encourage them: \u201cMake sure you go back and read Chapters 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. All of the book is loaded with great biblical insight, along with a lot of your own experience, working out the challenges of marriage.\u201d The book is called <em>Enter the Ring: Fighting Together for a Gospel-Saturated Marriage<\/em> by D.A. and Elicia Horton. You can order a copy of the book from us when you go, online, to FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd let me just encourage you to make what I think could be the best investment any couple would ever make in their marriage relationship. Plan to spend a weekend together with us at an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. If you\u2019re a regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener, you\u2019ve heard us talk about these getaways before. You\u2019ve said, \u201cOh, we should do that someday.\u201d Don\u2019t put it off; come join us for a <em>great<\/em> romantic getaway weekend as a couple. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to be in more than three dozen cities across the country this fall. If you sign up this week or next week, you\u2019ll save some money. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve been talking about today; right? You can save 50 percent off the regular registration fee by going ahead and signing up today. You can register, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call if you have any questions or if you\u2019d like to register over the phone. Our number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf it\u2019s been awhile since you\u2019ve been to a getaway, come get a refresher. If you\u2019ve never been, come join us at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about what a young couple can do \/ the steps you can take that will help to divorce-proof a marriage. Laura Taggart\u2019s going to join us. We hope you can be back with us as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today. We got help from Keith Lynch, Justin Adams, and Mark Ramey on today\u2019s program; thank you, guys. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300369","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300369"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300369"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300369"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300369"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300369"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300369"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300369"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}