{"id":300351,"date":"2018-08-28T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-08-28T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/speaking-truth-in-love\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:31","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:31","slug":"speaking-truth-in-love","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/speaking-truth-in-love\/","title":{"rendered":"Speaking Truth in Love"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Tim Muehlhoff talks about the importance of balancing truth and grace in our speech. The gospel, he states, gives us humility to say, &#8220;I can learn from people I disagree with.&#8221;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-08-28.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:49","filesize":"27.3M","filesize_raw":"28629104","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2821],"tags":[4159,4214,4512,4511],"podcast_series":[7242],"cwp_profile":[3245],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300351","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-reaching-out","tag-gospel","tag-loving-others","tag-speaking-the-truth-in-love","tag-truth-and-grace","podcast_series-winsome-persuasion","cwp_profile-tim-muehlhoff","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300351\/speaking-truth-in-love","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300351\/speaking-truth-in-love","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"gMmlpASxtu\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/speaking-truth-in-love\/\">Speaking Truth in Love<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/speaking-truth-in-love\/embed\/#?secret=gMmlpASxtu\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Speaking Truth in Love&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"gMmlpASxtu\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-08-28.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-08-28.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you find yourself, in certain conversations, wondering whether the right thing to do is to speak up and defend your values or just to keep your mouth shut to avoid a conflict? Dr. Tim Muehlhoff understands this dilemma.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>I have a position that\u2019s the minority position. I want people to listen to me. I don\u2019t want this to be a verbal fistfight; I want to, with civility, engage other people. I think Christians today want to do that; we just don\u2019t know how to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, August 28<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. There is a time to be silent and a time to speak. When it\u2019s time to speak, we need to know how to do that. We\u2019ll talk with Dr. Tim Muehlhoff about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. So, I think we\u2019re going to spend a lot of time kind of mulling around on how truth and grace coexist in our world and how we need to teach our kids to be full of truth and grace\u2014how we need to model what truth and grace look like in our own lives\u2014because there are a lot of people, who are looking at us. They may not see the grace that we keep telling them about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re exactly right, Bob. We\u2019ve had a lot of very timely books here, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and the authors of those books over the years, but <em>none<\/em> more timely than Tim Muehlhoff\u2019s book, <em>Winsome Persuasion: Christian Influence in a Post-Christian World<\/em>. Tim, welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>It\u2019s great to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tim is a professor at Biola University in Southern California. He also is the Director of Resources for Biola\u2019s Center for Marriage and Family Relationships. He and his wife Noreen have been married since 1990; they have three children. They\u2019ve been speaking at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways for 22 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tim, you\u2019ve written a book here which I think is so important\u2014for single people, who are engaging with others who don\u2019t believe as they believe; for married couples, who are mixing it up with other married couples at work, or in school, in their neighborhood; for parents, who are raising kids, as Bob said, who need to know how to navigate a post-Christian world and how to stand for something but do it in a winsome way. We really <em>can<\/em> do this thing, standing for truth and on behalf of the gospel in a post-Christian world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes; I would agree with that. The stereotype of us is that we\u2019re not doing a good job on the love part of it\u2014that we\u2019re full of truth; not much grace \/ not much empathy for other people\u2019s situations. One of the great things about this book is\u2014I wrote it with a dear friend of mine, Rick Langer, who is one of Biola\u2019s top theologian philosophers. We were just deeply troubled with what we see in today\u2019s argument culture\u2014that\u2019s a term by Deborah Tannen from Georgetown\u2014that we approach everything as if it\u2019s a verbal slugfest. People are tired of it; and yet, we don\u2019t know how to get out of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs Christians, this is a <em>great<\/em> opportunity for us to step up to the plate and say, \u201cWe can be people of conviction, but we are going to speak truth in such a way that it\u2019s going to shine well beyond what the argument culture does today.\u201d As Christians, this is a <em>golden<\/em> opportunity for us to be winsome in our persuasion and not always being so aggressive and fitting into negative stereotypes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to ask you to just illustrate what we\u2019re talking about here with something that took place in Biola\u2019s history\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it\u2019s a 60-foot tall Jesus that was, I guess, on a building on campus; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>[Laughter] Yes; on our science building.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A mural?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; tell us about it, and then explain how that illustrates what you\u2019re talking about in your book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes; this is a mural done by a very famous muralist in Los Angeles, Kent Twitchell; and he gave it to Biola University. It\u2019s a 60-foot Jesus\u2014who is done after a Russian model\u2014is what his source material is\u2014but over time, Jesus became [whiter] as the sun would obviously beat down on it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur students of color\u2014I mean, every day, they\u2019re greeted by a 60-foot, increasingly white, Jesus. We struggle with diversity a little bit at Biola. Our students started to feel like: \u201cIs this my Jesus? Can I be at home at a university where every day I\u2019m greeted by a Jesus who just doesn\u2019t look like me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if you\u2019re the minority perspective, <em>how<\/em> do you get people to listen to you?\u2014that\u2019s what <em>Winsome Persuasion<\/em> is about. If you were to grab the majority of students at Biola University and say, \u201cWhat do you think of the Jesus mural?\u201d they would say: \u201cOh, it\u2019s great. I love it! It\u2019s awesome.\u201d But students of color were <em>bothered<\/em> by it, so how do they get their voice out? How do they actually change opinion on what should be done with the Jesus mural?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, that is a <em>great<\/em> illustration for <em>us<\/em>; because we are like those students of color\u2014<em>increasingly<\/em>, the minority perspective in the United States. For example, when it comes to same-sex marriage\u2014in 2001, 57 percent of Americans <em>opposed<\/em> same-sex marriage. In 2017, according to Pew research, 62 percent of Americans <em>support<\/em> gay marriage. By the way, pre-marital sex\u2014today, current Gallup statistics\u2014only 38 percent of Americans would say that pre-marital sex is immoral. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when it comes to being a Christian today, we\u2019re like those minority students on Biola\u2019s campus\u2014I have a position that\u2019s the minority position. I want people to listen to me; I don\u2019t want this to be a verbal fistfight. I want to, with civility, engage other people. I think Christians today want to do that; we just don\u2019t know how to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Bob will remember this\u2014we had Caleb Kaltenbach on the show a number of years ago. He made the statement, \u201cChristians have to realize that they\u2019ve never been the home team, and we\u2019re certainly not the home team now.\u201d You\u2019re talking about a total person communication of how we engage a culture that doesn\u2019t agree with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>And we\u2019re pulling from two source materials. One is the Bible. The Bible\u2014the early church\u2014they were the counter-public \/ they were the <em>minority<\/em> perspective; and yet, they gained a hearing that <em>shocks<\/em> historians and sociologists today. How in the world did the early church grow at such a fast rate and <em>really<\/em> take over large parts of the world? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow in the world did that happen?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re also combining that with communication principles\u2014taken from communication theory. If you\u2019re the minority perspective, how do you gain the attention of a dominant perspective? How do you get <em>credibility<\/em> that people actually listen to you? Aristotle was <em>brilliant<\/em> when it came to what he called <em>ethos<\/em>; that is: \u201cYour personal credibility\/your reputation\u201d\u2014Aristotle said\u2014\u201cis the most important thing about you.\u201d When you walk into that room, your reputation <em>precedes<\/em> you; so you <em>have<\/em> to work on your reputation. Aristotle was <em>brilliant<\/em> in telling us how to foster good credentials with other people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we pull in Bible, current examples, communication theory; and we try to make it practical so that communities\u2014churches\/local groups\u2014really can engage at the <em>local level<\/em> and make a difference for the Christian perspective.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When Bob and I talked about starting <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> 26 years ago, we had decided we did not want to go on the air and be pounding the table with a culture wars mentality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We wanted to be known by what we\u2019re <em>for<\/em>, not by what we\u2019re against. Now, that\u2019s been an interesting tension over the years; because there ae a lot of things that are occurring in our culture that I can\u2019t embrace \/ I don\u2019t believe in. But what we\u2019ve tried to do is present the Scriptures\u2014in a winsome way, a persuasive way, a compassionate way\u2014realizing there are listeners, who don\u2019t believe as we believe, but to continue that so that they can listen to what we have, here, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes; Rick Langer, my co-author, brilliantly lays out three different voices that seem to be present in Scripture. First is what we call the prophetic voice, which means \u201cThus sayeth the Lord\u2026\u201d \u201cThis is the Word of the Lord, and I\u2019m sorry if it hurts your feelings; but this is biblical truth.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecond is what we call the pastoral voice, which means that truth most likely hurt you in some ways\u2014it hurt your feelings, or your community\u2019s going through a really difficult time. My first step is to come alongside of you and pastorally <em>care<\/em> for you; and then last is the persuasive voice, where I try to <em>convince<\/em> you of my perspective.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, here\u2019s what we say in the book: \u201cWe\u2019re not anti-prophetic. We just feel like the church has gotten to be <em>known<\/em> as the prophetic church\u2014that we are pounding the table, and we <em>are<\/em> coming across as angry. Sometimes, the prophetic\u2014it just isn\u2019t appropriate for the situation.\u201d For example, you don\u2019t run up to a car accident, stick your head in the window, and say: \u201cSee? You should have been wearing seatbelts.\u201d Now, there\u2019s a time for arguing for seatbelts, but that is not the time. It would be the pastoral voice you\u2019d want at the scene of an accident\u2014right?\u2014caring for people, <em>regardless<\/em> of what they believed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we believe that the pastoral, the prophetic, and the persuasive\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we want to write a book that really focuses on the pastoral: \u201cLet\u2019s really care for and love people, who may disagree with us, as we seek to persuade them of the truth; but that thing you learned in Sunday school is really true.\u201d From communication theory perspective: \u201cUnless a person knows you care about them, they don\u2019t care what you believe.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, that is <em>great<\/em> news for the church; because we\u2019ve <em>excelled<\/em> at neighbor love in the past. That\u2019s what got us a hearing with the Roman Empire\u2014was not our brilliant arguments\u2014but the fact that two major plagues hit the Roman Empire\u2014mortality rates of upwards of 30 percent. The church stepped up and risked their lives to help people with the plague. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we do that kind of neighbor love today, we open the door for the prophetic voice; we open the door for the persuasive voice; but I think we need to first show people, \u201cWe <em>love<\/em> you and are willing to sacrifice for <em>you<\/em>.\u201d That is <em>not<\/em> what the Christian church is known for today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I read a book three decades ago that kind of summarizes what you\u2019re talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a book that was\u2014I don\u2019t know that it\u2019s still in print\u2014it\u2019s called <em>The Samaritan Strategy<\/em>. The author of the book made the statement I\u2019ve never forgotten\u2014he said, \u201cOn the issue of abortion,\u201d\u2014this was 1988\u2014he said, \u201cOn the issue of abortion, if a politician stands up and says, \u2018Abortion is <em>wrong<\/em>, and it should be outlawed in our country,\u2019\u201d he said, \u201cthose who disagree just say, \u2018Sit down and shut up.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said: \u201cWhen Mother Teresa comes to the prayer breakfast and she stands up and says: \u2018Give me your babies. Don\u2019t kill them, give them to me; I will take care of them,\u2019\u201d he said \u201ceven her opponents sit respectfully and quietly, unable to do or say anything in the presence of Mother Teresa.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the point you\u2019re making; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes; you earn the right to be <em>heard<\/em>. That\u2019s Communication Theory 101: \u201cYou earn the right to be heard.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet\u2019s go back to Aristotle just for a second. Aristotle said your credibility is based on three things: one, he calls it intellect: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cCan I, with integrity, present both sides of an issue? I can argue for <em>both<\/em>; and then, I later decide: \u201cWhich is the stronger argument?\u201d or \u201cMy convictions lead me here...\u201d Now, right away, the Christian church fails <em>dramatically<\/em>\u2014like: \u201cHey, don\u2019t be reading that stuff! What are you doing?\u2014reading the Quran?\u201d \u201cWhat are you doing?\u2014reading that atheist thinker?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the very first criterion\u2014already, as Christian persuasionists\u2014we\u2019re behind the eight-ball, because we don\u2019t know other perspectives. We come across as being ignorant, isolated, and \u201cWhat do you mean?\u2014you don\u2019t know about Betty Friedan, <em>The Feminine Mystique<\/em>? What are you guys reading over there?\u201d The answer is: \u201cWe\u2019re just reading Christian writers.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we could say, \u201cHey, that\u2019s true of Berkeley,\u201d but we need to step back and say: \u201cNo, no; no. As Christians, we\u2019re going to be well-rounded, and we\u2019re not going to be afraid of the truth,\u201d and \u201cWhen we present somebody else\u2019s perspective, we\u2019re going to present the <em>best<\/em> version of it, not a <em>demonized<\/em> version of it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And when you can do that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014when you can present somebody else\u2019s argument fairly and winsomely\u2014and they hear you doing that, they\u2019re now more open to hear what you\u2019re about to say than if all you\u2019re doing is caricaturizing and making straw men out of them; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes; but Bob, think of how rare that is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I know!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>So again, isn\u2019t this funny? We\u2019re halfway through an interview, and we\u2019re only on one part of Aristotle\u2019s criteria for credibility, and that is intellect. I think we\u2019re realizing we\u2019re not doing a great job on this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe second one is virtue. Aristotle would want to say: \u201cDo you live out what you say publicly? Is this part of your life? Is there a track record of people seeing you living out what you profess to be true?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, here\u2019s the third one that I think we miss the most. Aristotle said, \u201cYou have to have goodwill towards people.\u201d In other words, \u201cI believe the <em>best<\/em> about you, not the worst about you.\u201d All my students in my classes read \u201cLetter from a Birmingham Jail,\u201d by Martin Luther King, Jr.\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014where he <em>refuses<\/em> to demonize the very white pastors, who are trying to shut down his protest movement of nonviolence. In the book, we have historical sketches of Harriet Beecher Stowe, of Wilberforce, of St. Patrick. What unified those individuals?\u2014they <em>refused<\/em> to demonize the opposition.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday, we have Christian blogs; we have Christian shows, where we just <em>demonize<\/em> people. Again, I think Aristotle would say, \u201cBut where\u2019s your goodwill towards these people?\u201d Again, how we speak about certain political candidates or people who disagree with the Christian position\u2014this is <em>not<\/em> speaking truth in love. Remember what Peter said: \u201cI want you to be ready to give a defense of your faith, but do it with gentleness and respect.\u201d I think we\u2019ve lost the gentleness and respect part, and that\u2019s why we wrote <em>Winsome Persuasion<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to paraphrase a quote that\u2019s one of my favorite quotes that I think echoes what you\u2019re saying. This is from Tim Keller\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014he says, \u201cIt is the gospel that gives us, as Christians, the humility to say, \u2018I can learn from people I disagree with, from the culture around me.\u2019\u201d It\u2019s a fundamental humility that says, \u201cI don\u2019t have all the answers.\u201d Most of us, as Christians, go into an argument, thinking, \u201cI do have all the answers, and you don\u2019t have any of them.\u201d But humility would say: \u201cNo; I don\u2019t have all the answers. I think I know what truth is, but I don\u2019t have all the answers.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe then says, \u201cIt\u2019s the gospel that gives us the confidence to say: \u2018I have something I can offer here. I can give to this conversation,\u2019\u201d and \u201cIt\u2019s the gospel that gives us the courage to say, \u2018I don\u2019t have to fear the culture around me.\u2019\u201d He said, when you have\u2014the humility, the confidence, and the courage\u2014you can have effective ministry that honors God and blesses others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>That\u2019s right, Bob. I agree with that. And goodwill is also lived out in practical ways. Goodwill means: \u201cI care about you and your community. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI am there to <em>help<\/em> you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, let\u2019s take the transgender community, just for a second, an incredibly at-risk community. Studies show that upwards of 40 percent of transgendered individuals have thought about suicide or attempted suicide. As a Christian community, we have thoughts about sexuality; we have thoughts about gender\u2014right?\u2014that we think are biblical. But to come alongside a transgendered person and say: \u201cListen, is that true that 40 percent of your community regularly thinks about suicide?\u2014that you feel bullied everywhere you go? My goodness; if it\u2019s the Christian community doing the bullying, I want to apologize for that. We want to nip that in the bud.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd yet, the way we talk about the transgendered \/ the way we roll our eyes about the transgendered really concerns me. I was speaking at a conference. A pastor walks up to me and goes: \u201cOh, I have a solution for the transgender problem. Let\u2019s have three bathrooms: he, she, [and] it.\u201d I looked at this pastor and I said, \u201cHey, I don\u2019t know you; but we don\u2019t refer to people made in God\u2019s image as in \u2018it.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said to me, \u201cOh, come on; I\u2019m just kidding.\u201d I said, \u201cTo me, that makes it worse.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Tim, I have to interject here, because you know this. We can strive to model exactly what you\u2019re talking about and say: \u201cLook, I care about <em>you<\/em> as a person. I care about the struggles you\u2019re feeling,\u201d and that person\u2019s going to turn to us and say, \u201cBut do you think what I\u2019m doing is sinful?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt that moment\u2014when we say, \u201cI do think that you\u2019ve embraced a sinful perspective on your sexuality,\u201d\u2014at that point, the person says, \u201cThen I have nothing more to hear from you, and you must hate me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Okay; let\u2019s bring in the pastoral. If I\u2019m dealing with a transgendered student, who is thinking about thoughts of suicide \/ who feels bullied everywhere, that\u2019s when I step into the pastoral and I say: \u201cListen, we need to deal with this right now. Are you really having suicide thoughts?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>\u201cYes; I am.\u201d \u201cOkay; let\u2019s deal with that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But when he says to you, \u201cBut don\u2019t you think that my fundamental transgendered identity is sinful?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes; \u201cWe can deal with that later.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You just put that off for the moment?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>The Book of Proverbs: \u201cA word spoken in the right circumstances is compared to fine jewelry,\u201d\u2014this is not the right circumstances.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014to have that conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>This is a car accident. I do believe in seatbelts; and I do poke my head in there and I look at the tragedy caused by not wearing seatbelts\u2014this is not the time to talk about my philosophy of seatbelts.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>This is the time to <em>help<\/em> you. Once you\u2019re <em>helped<\/em>\u2014again, this isn\u2019t the early church saying, \u201cOkay; plague victims, as we\u2019re trying to nurse you to health, let\u2019s talk about the sins of the Roman Empire.\u201d\u00a0 No: \u201cLet\u2019s first help you, <em>bodily<\/em>.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think sometimes, as Christians, we want to have this gospel conversation or ideological conversation on the <em>frontend<\/em>, which they <em>don\u2019t<\/em> <em>care<\/em>. Remember the Sunday school\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cUnless I know you care about me, I don\u2019t care what you think about these issues.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Winsome Persuasion<\/em> is persuasion\u2014I do want this person to eventually adopt a view of biblical flourishing that I think is going to help them, ultimately. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut when a person\u2019s thinking of suicide or being bullied, I step in and say: \u201cOkay; here\u2019s what the church is going to do. We\u2019re stopping this bullying stuff right now. We are going to be your strongest advocate when it comes to bullying, because I don\u2019t care <em>who<\/em> you are; you don\u2019t get bullied.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOnce we do <em>that<\/em>, then let\u2019s have a conversation. If they bring it up, now\u2019s not the time to talk about it. And again, when I was in grad school, I was the most conservative person, <em>by a mile<\/em>, in grad school. I loved my professors and fellow Ph.D. students at USC Chapel Hill. I didn\u2019t have any respect to bring into question things that they believed deeply. It took me <em>years<\/em> to garner that kind of ethos \/ that kind of respect. And you know what it was?\u2014it was caring for people. It was showing up at their presentations \/ it was caring for them when the copier didn\u2019t work, and they didn\u2019t know what to do, and they had to run off to class; and I said, \u201cListen, give me it. I\u2019ll do the copying, and I\u2019ll get\u2026\u201d This neighbor love thing is because we truly do love people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we don\u2019t do it just to share the gospel. See, that\u2019s what sophists would do; right?\u2014\u201cThis is a rhetorical trick\u2014neighbor love\u2014to get you to lower your defenses so I can slip in the gospel.\u201d No; Jesus says neighbor love can stand on its own. We love people, because they\u2019re made in the image of God; so <em>Winsome Persuasion<\/em>, our book, could have been called <em>Winsome Neighbor Love<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe New Testament church flourished because Romans knew, at the end of the day: \u201cI was loved by people who were willing to lay down their lives for my safety. Even if I never come around to the gospel, they still would lay down their life; because I\u2019m made in the image of God and they care for me deeply.\u201d That kind of love is the Mother Teresa love we\u2019re talking about that gets us into the game to have productive conversations.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In 26 years of broadcasting, I\u2019ve made a lot of mistakes, here, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; but occasionally, we\u2019ll do something that really resonates with a person. I\u2019ll never forget the email that came from a transgendered person in Washington, DC. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis person wrote to tell us how, as a person, he had been rejected by the church on multiple occasions when he came out and shared his gender; and he said: \u201cBut I didn\u2019t hear that kind of bullying, that kind of rejection, that kind of withdrawal of relationship when you had your guest on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You talked directly to me. You spoke with love to me; and I just wanted to write and say, \u2018Thank you.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou said it earlier: \u201cAll people are made in the image of God.\u201d Even the people who don\u2019t believe as we believe are image-bearers. How then shall we love them, and how should we speak of them, and how should we speak to them? Your book, <em>Winsome Persuasion<\/em>, is a <em>great<\/em> exhortation for us to up our game and to represent Jesus Christ with authenticity and with the true love of Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and it may be that not everybody agrees on tactics as we engage with others, but I think everybody can agree that we have to be full of grace and full of truth as we represent Christ in our world; and we haven\u2019t always done that well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d encourage people to get a copy of Dr. Muehlhoff\u2019s book, <em>Winsome Persuasion: Christian Influence in a Post-Christian World<\/em>. We have copies of the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order the book, <em>Winsome Persuasion<\/em>. Our number is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of our goals, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is to speak the truth in love every day on this program. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want, not only to represent the truth of the Bible, we want to represent it with grace, with love, with kindness. Our prayer is that this program would continue, by God\u2019s grace, to impact more and more people, year in and year out. We want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who partner with us. You\u2019re helping us reach more people, more regularly, with God\u2019s blueprints for marriage and family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDuring the month of August, we\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have offered to match every donation we receive during this month on a dollar-for-dollar basis, up to a total of $500,000. The month is winding down, and we want to ask those of you, who are regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners, to go online or to call us and make a donation so that we can take full advantage of this matching-gift opportunity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate; and when you do, we want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of Dennis and Barbara Rainey\u2019s new book, <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s our way of saying, \u201cThank you for all you do to make <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>possible and for partnering with us in this outreach.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back again tomorrow. We\u2019re going to continue our conversation with Tim Muehlhoff about how we can speak the truth in love, full of grace and truth, in a post-Christian world. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:29:49"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["27.3M"],"filesize_raw":["28629104"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-300351.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-300351.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Muehlhoff talks about the importance of balancing truth and grace in our speech. The gospel, he states, gives us humility to say, \"I can learn from people I disagree with.\"","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-08-28.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Do you find yourself, in certain conversations, wondering whether the right thing to do is to speak up and defend your values or just to keep your mouth shut to avoid a conflict? Dr. Tim Muehlhoff understands this dilemma.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>I have a position that\u2019s the minority position. I want people to listen to me. I don\u2019t want this to be a verbal fistfight; I want to, with civility, engage other people. I think Christians today want to do that; we just don\u2019t know how to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, August 28<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. There is a time to be silent and a time to speak. When it\u2019s time to speak, we need to know how to do that. We\u2019ll talk with Dr. Tim Muehlhoff about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. So, I think we\u2019re going to spend a lot of time kind of mulling around on how truth and grace coexist in our world and how we need to teach our kids to be full of truth and grace\u2014how we need to model what truth and grace look like in our own lives\u2014because there are a lot of people, who are looking at us. They may not see the grace that we keep telling them about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You\u2019re exactly right, Bob. We\u2019ve had a lot of very timely books here, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and the authors of those books over the years, but <em>none<\/em> more timely than Tim Muehlhoff\u2019s book, <em>Winsome Persuasion: Christian Influence in a Post-Christian World<\/em>. Tim, welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>It\u2019s great to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tim is a professor at Biola University in Southern California. He also is the Director of Resources for Biola\u2019s Center for Marriage and Family Relationships. He and his wife Noreen have been married since 1990; they have three children. They\u2019ve been speaking at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways for 22 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Tim, you\u2019ve written a book here which I think is so important\u2014for single people, who are engaging with others who don\u2019t believe as they believe; for married couples, who are mixing it up with other married couples at work, or in school, in their neighborhood; for parents, who are raising kids, as Bob said, who need to know how to navigate a post-Christian world and how to stand for something but do it in a winsome way. We really <em>can<\/em> do this thing, standing for truth and on behalf of the gospel in a post-Christian world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes; I would agree with that. The stereotype of us is that we\u2019re not doing a good job on the love part of it\u2014that we\u2019re full of truth; not much grace \/ not much empathy for other people\u2019s situations. One of the great things about this book is\u2014I wrote it with a dear friend of mine, Rick Langer, who is one of Biola\u2019s top theologian philosophers. We were just deeply troubled with what we see in today\u2019s argument culture\u2014that\u2019s a term by Deborah Tannen from Georgetown\u2014that we approach everything as if it\u2019s a verbal slugfest. People are tired of it; and yet, we don\u2019t know how to get out of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs Christians, this is a <em>great<\/em> opportunity for us to step up to the plate and say, \u201cWe can be people of conviction, but we are going to speak truth in such a way that it\u2019s going to shine well beyond what the argument culture does today.\u201d As Christians, this is a <em>golden<\/em> opportunity for us to be winsome in our persuasion and not always being so aggressive and fitting into negative stereotypes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to ask you to just illustrate what we\u2019re talking about here with something that took place in Biola\u2019s history\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014it\u2019s a 60-foot tall Jesus that was, I guess, on a building on campus; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>[Laughter] Yes; on our science building.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>A mural?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; tell us about it, and then explain how that illustrates what you\u2019re talking about in your book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes; this is a mural done by a very famous muralist in Los Angeles, Kent Twitchell; and he gave it to Biola University. It\u2019s a 60-foot Jesus\u2014who is done after a Russian model\u2014is what his source material is\u2014but over time, Jesus became [whiter] as the sun would obviously beat down on it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur students of color\u2014I mean, every day, they\u2019re greeted by a 60-foot, increasingly white, Jesus. We struggle with diversity a little bit at Biola. Our students started to feel like: \u201cIs this my Jesus? Can I be at home at a university where every day I\u2019m greeted by a Jesus who just doesn\u2019t look like me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, if you\u2019re the minority perspective, <em>how<\/em> do you get people to listen to you?\u2014that\u2019s what <em>Winsome Persuasion<\/em> is about. If you were to grab the majority of students at Biola University and say, \u201cWhat do you think of the Jesus mural?\u201d they would say: \u201cOh, it\u2019s great. I love it! It\u2019s awesome.\u201d But students of color were <em>bothered<\/em> by it, so how do they get their voice out? How do they actually change opinion on what should be done with the Jesus mural?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, that is a <em>great<\/em> illustration for <em>us<\/em>; because we are like those students of color\u2014<em>increasingly<\/em>, the minority perspective in the United States. For example, when it comes to same-sex marriage\u2014in 2001, 57 percent of Americans <em>opposed<\/em> same-sex marriage. In 2017, according to Pew research, 62 percent of Americans <em>support<\/em> gay marriage. By the way, pre-marital sex\u2014today, current Gallup statistics\u2014only 38 percent of Americans would say that pre-marital sex is immoral. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, when it comes to being a Christian today, we\u2019re like those minority students on Biola\u2019s campus\u2014I have a position that\u2019s the minority position. I want people to listen to me; I don\u2019t want this to be a verbal fistfight. I want to, with civility, engage other people. I think Christians today want to do that; we just don\u2019t know how to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Bob will remember this\u2014we had Caleb Kaltenbach on the show a number of years ago. He made the statement, \u201cChristians have to realize that they\u2019ve never been the home team, and we\u2019re certainly not the home team now.\u201d You\u2019re talking about a total person communication of how we engage a culture that doesn\u2019t agree with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>And we\u2019re pulling from two source materials. One is the Bible. The Bible\u2014the early church\u2014they were the counter-public \/ they were the <em>minority<\/em> perspective; and yet, they gained a hearing that <em>shocks<\/em> historians and sociologists today. How in the world did the early church grow at such a fast rate and <em>really<\/em> take over large parts of the world? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow in the world did that happen?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re also combining that with communication principles\u2014taken from communication theory. If you\u2019re the minority perspective, how do you gain the attention of a dominant perspective? How do you get <em>credibility<\/em> that people actually listen to you? Aristotle was <em>brilliant<\/em> when it came to what he called <em>ethos<\/em>; that is: \u201cYour personal credibility\/your reputation\u201d\u2014Aristotle said\u2014\u201cis the most important thing about you.\u201d When you walk into that room, your reputation <em>precedes<\/em> you; so you <em>have<\/em> to work on your reputation. Aristotle was <em>brilliant<\/em> in telling us how to foster good credentials with other people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, we pull in Bible, current examples, communication theory; and we try to make it practical so that communities\u2014churches\/local groups\u2014really can engage at the <em>local level<\/em> and make a difference for the Christian perspective.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When Bob and I talked about starting <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> 26 years ago, we had decided we did not want to go on the air and be pounding the table with a culture wars mentality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We wanted to be known by what we\u2019re <em>for<\/em>, not by what we\u2019re against. Now, that\u2019s been an interesting tension over the years; because there ae a lot of things that are occurring in our culture that I can\u2019t embrace \/ I don\u2019t believe in. But what we\u2019ve tried to do is present the Scriptures\u2014in a winsome way, a persuasive way, a compassionate way\u2014realizing there are listeners, who don\u2019t believe as we believe, but to continue that so that they can listen to what we have, here, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes; Rick Langer, my co-author, brilliantly lays out three different voices that seem to be present in Scripture. First is what we call the prophetic voice, which means \u201cThus sayeth the Lord\u2026\u201d \u201cThis is the Word of the Lord, and I\u2019m sorry if it hurts your feelings; but this is biblical truth.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSecond is what we call the pastoral voice, which means that truth most likely hurt you in some ways\u2014it hurt your feelings, or your community\u2019s going through a really difficult time. My first step is to come alongside of you and pastorally <em>care<\/em> for you; and then last is the persuasive voice, where I try to <em>convince<\/em> you of my perspective.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, here\u2019s what we say in the book: \u201cWe\u2019re not anti-prophetic. We just feel like the church has gotten to be <em>known<\/em> as the prophetic church\u2014that we are pounding the table, and we <em>are<\/em> coming across as angry. Sometimes, the prophetic\u2014it just isn\u2019t appropriate for the situation.\u201d For example, you don\u2019t run up to a car accident, stick your head in the window, and say: \u201cSee? You should have been wearing seatbelts.\u201d Now, there\u2019s a time for arguing for seatbelts, but that is not the time. It would be the pastoral voice you\u2019d want at the scene of an accident\u2014right?\u2014caring for people, <em>regardless<\/em> of what they believed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo we believe that the pastoral, the prophetic, and the persuasive\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we want to write a book that really focuses on the pastoral: \u201cLet\u2019s really care for and love people, who may disagree with us, as we seek to persuade them of the truth; but that thing you learned in Sunday school is really true.\u201d From communication theory perspective: \u201cUnless a person knows you care about them, they don\u2019t care what you believe.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, that is <em>great<\/em> news for the church; because we\u2019ve <em>excelled<\/em> at neighbor love in the past. That\u2019s what got us a hearing with the Roman Empire\u2014was not our brilliant arguments\u2014but the fact that two major plagues hit the Roman Empire\u2014mortality rates of upwards of 30 percent. The church stepped up and risked their lives to help people with the plague. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we do that kind of neighbor love today, we open the door for the prophetic voice; we open the door for the persuasive voice; but I think we need to first show people, \u201cWe <em>love<\/em> you and are willing to sacrifice for <em>you<\/em>.\u201d That is <em>not<\/em> what the Christian church is known for today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I read a book three decades ago that kind of summarizes what you\u2019re talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a book that was\u2014I don\u2019t know that it\u2019s still in print\u2014it\u2019s called <em>The Samaritan Strategy<\/em>. The author of the book made the statement I\u2019ve never forgotten\u2014he said, \u201cOn the issue of abortion,\u201d\u2014this was 1988\u2014he said, \u201cOn the issue of abortion, if a politician stands up and says, \u2018Abortion is <em>wrong<\/em>, and it should be outlawed in our country,\u2019\u201d he said, \u201cthose who disagree just say, \u2018Sit down and shut up.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said: \u201cWhen Mother Teresa comes to the prayer breakfast and she stands up and says: \u2018Give me your babies. Don\u2019t kill them, give them to me; I will take care of them,\u2019\u201d he said \u201ceven her opponents sit respectfully and quietly, unable to do or say anything in the presence of Mother Teresa.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the point you\u2019re making; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes; you earn the right to be <em>heard<\/em>. That\u2019s Communication Theory 101: \u201cYou earn the right to be heard.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet\u2019s go back to Aristotle just for a second. Aristotle said your credibility is based on three things: one, he calls it intellect: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cCan I, with integrity, present both sides of an issue? I can argue for <em>both<\/em>; and then, I later decide: \u201cWhich is the stronger argument?\u201d or \u201cMy convictions lead me here...\u201d Now, right away, the Christian church fails <em>dramatically<\/em>\u2014like: \u201cHey, don\u2019t be reading that stuff! What are you doing?\u2014reading the Quran?\u201d \u201cWhat are you doing?\u2014reading that atheist thinker?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, the very first criterion\u2014already, as Christian persuasionists\u2014we\u2019re behind the eight-ball, because we don\u2019t know other perspectives. We come across as being ignorant, isolated, and \u201cWhat do you mean?\u2014you don\u2019t know about Betty Friedan, <em>The Feminine Mystique<\/em>? What are you guys reading over there?\u201d The answer is: \u201cWe\u2019re just reading Christian writers.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we could say, \u201cHey, that\u2019s true of Berkeley,\u201d but we need to step back and say: \u201cNo, no; no. As Christians, we\u2019re going to be well-rounded, and we\u2019re not going to be afraid of the truth,\u201d and \u201cWhen we present somebody else\u2019s perspective, we\u2019re going to present the <em>best<\/em> version of it, not a <em>demonized<\/em> version of it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And when you can do that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014when you can present somebody else\u2019s argument fairly and winsomely\u2014and they hear you doing that, they\u2019re now more open to hear what you\u2019re about to say than if all you\u2019re doing is caricaturizing and making straw men out of them; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes; but Bob, think of how rare that is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I know!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>So again, isn\u2019t this funny? We\u2019re halfway through an interview, and we\u2019re only on one part of Aristotle\u2019s criteria for credibility, and that is intellect. I think we\u2019re realizing we\u2019re not doing a great job on this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe second one is virtue. Aristotle would want to say: \u201cDo you live out what you say publicly? Is this part of your life? Is there a track record of people seeing you living out what you profess to be true?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, here\u2019s the third one that I think we miss the most. Aristotle said, \u201cYou have to have goodwill towards people.\u201d In other words, \u201cI believe the <em>best<\/em> about you, not the worst about you.\u201d All my students in my classes read \u201cLetter from a Birmingham Jail,\u201d by Martin Luther King, Jr.\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014where he <em>refuses<\/em> to demonize the very white pastors, who are trying to shut down his protest movement of nonviolence. In the book, we have historical sketches of Harriet Beecher Stowe, of Wilberforce, of St. Patrick. What unified those individuals?\u2014they <em>refused<\/em> to demonize the opposition.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday, we have Christian blogs; we have Christian shows, where we just <em>demonize<\/em> people. Again, I think Aristotle would say, \u201cBut where\u2019s your goodwill towards these people?\u201d Again, how we speak about certain political candidates or people who disagree with the Christian position\u2014this is <em>not<\/em> speaking truth in love. Remember what Peter said: \u201cI want you to be ready to give a defense of your faith, but do it with gentleness and respect.\u201d I think we\u2019ve lost the gentleness and respect part, and that\u2019s why we wrote <em>Winsome Persuasion<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to paraphrase a quote that\u2019s one of my favorite quotes that I think echoes what you\u2019re saying. This is from Tim Keller\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014he says, \u201cIt is the gospel that gives us, as Christians, the humility to say, \u2018I can learn from people I disagree with, from the culture around me.\u2019\u201d It\u2019s a fundamental humility that says, \u201cI don\u2019t have all the answers.\u201d Most of us, as Christians, go into an argument, thinking, \u201cI do have all the answers, and you don\u2019t have any of them.\u201d But humility would say: \u201cNo; I don\u2019t have all the answers. I think I know what truth is, but I don\u2019t have all the answers.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe then says, \u201cIt\u2019s the gospel that gives us the confidence to say: \u2018I have something I can offer here. I can give to this conversation,\u2019\u201d and \u201cIt\u2019s the gospel that gives us the courage to say, \u2018I don\u2019t have to fear the culture around me.\u2019\u201d He said, when you have\u2014the humility, the confidence, and the courage\u2014you can have effective ministry that honors God and blesses others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>That\u2019s right, Bob. I agree with that. And goodwill is also lived out in practical ways. Goodwill means: \u201cI care about you and your community. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI am there to <em>help<\/em> you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, let\u2019s take the transgender community, just for a second, an incredibly at-risk community. Studies show that upwards of 40 percent of transgendered individuals have thought about suicide or attempted suicide. As a Christian community, we have thoughts about sexuality; we have thoughts about gender\u2014right?\u2014that we think are biblical. But to come alongside a transgendered person and say: \u201cListen, is that true that 40 percent of your community regularly thinks about suicide?\u2014that you feel bullied everywhere you go? My goodness; if it\u2019s the Christian community doing the bullying, I want to apologize for that. We want to nip that in the bud.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd yet, the way we talk about the transgendered \/ the way we roll our eyes about the transgendered really concerns me. I was speaking at a conference. A pastor walks up to me and goes: \u201cOh, I have a solution for the transgender problem. Let\u2019s have three bathrooms: he, she, [and] it.\u201d I looked at this pastor and I said, \u201cHey, I don\u2019t know you; but we don\u2019t refer to people made in God\u2019s image as in \u2018it.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said to me, \u201cOh, come on; I\u2019m just kidding.\u201d I said, \u201cTo me, that makes it worse.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Tim, I have to interject here, because you know this. We can strive to model exactly what you\u2019re talking about and say: \u201cLook, I care about <em>you<\/em> as a person. I care about the struggles you\u2019re feeling,\u201d and that person\u2019s going to turn to us and say, \u201cBut do you think what I\u2019m doing is sinful?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt that moment\u2014when we say, \u201cI do think that you\u2019ve embraced a sinful perspective on your sexuality,\u201d\u2014at that point, the person says, \u201cThen I have nothing more to hear from you, and you must hate me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Okay; let\u2019s bring in the pastoral. If I\u2019m dealing with a transgendered student, who is thinking about thoughts of suicide \/ who feels bullied everywhere, that\u2019s when I step into the pastoral and I say: \u201cListen, we need to deal with this right now. Are you really having suicide thoughts?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>\u201cYes; I am.\u201d \u201cOkay; let\u2019s deal with that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But when he says to you, \u201cBut don\u2019t you think that my fundamental transgendered identity is sinful?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>Yes; \u201cWe can deal with that later.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You just put that off for the moment?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>The Book of Proverbs: \u201cA word spoken in the right circumstances is compared to fine jewelry,\u201d\u2014this is not the right circumstances.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014to have that conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>This is a car accident. I do believe in seatbelts; and I do poke my head in there and I look at the tragedy caused by not wearing seatbelts\u2014this is not the time to talk about my philosophy of seatbelts.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim: <\/strong>This is the time to <em>help<\/em> you. Once you\u2019re <em>helped<\/em>\u2014again, this isn\u2019t the early church saying, \u201cOkay; plague victims, as we\u2019re trying to nurse you to health, let\u2019s talk about the sins of the Roman Empire.\u201d\u00a0 No: \u201cLet\u2019s first help you, <em>bodily<\/em>.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think sometimes, as Christians, we want to have this gospel conversation or ideological conversation on the <em>frontend<\/em>, which they <em>don\u2019t<\/em> <em>care<\/em>. Remember the Sunday school\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Tim:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cUnless I know you care about me, I don\u2019t care what you think about these issues.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Winsome Persuasion<\/em> is persuasion\u2014I do want this person to eventually adopt a view of biblical flourishing that I think is going to help them, ultimately. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut when a person\u2019s thinking of suicide or being bullied, I step in and say: \u201cOkay; here\u2019s what the church is going to do. We\u2019re stopping this bullying stuff right now. We are going to be your strongest advocate when it comes to bullying, because I don\u2019t care <em>who<\/em> you are; you don\u2019t get bullied.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOnce we do <em>that<\/em>, then let\u2019s have a conversation. If they bring it up, now\u2019s not the time to talk about it. And again, when I was in grad school, I was the most conservative person, <em>by a mile<\/em>, in grad school. I loved my professors and fellow Ph.D. students at USC Chapel Hill. I didn\u2019t have any respect to bring into question things that they believed deeply. It took me <em>years<\/em> to garner that kind of ethos \/ that kind of respect. And you know what it was?\u2014it was caring for people. It was showing up at their presentations \/ it was caring for them when the copier didn\u2019t work, and they didn\u2019t know what to do, and they had to run off to class; and I said, \u201cListen, give me it. I\u2019ll do the copying, and I\u2019ll get\u2026\u201d This neighbor love thing is because we truly do love people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we don\u2019t do it just to share the gospel. See, that\u2019s what sophists would do; right?\u2014\u201cThis is a rhetorical trick\u2014neighbor love\u2014to get you to lower your defenses so I can slip in the gospel.\u201d No; Jesus says neighbor love can stand on its own. We love people, because they\u2019re made in the image of God; so <em>Winsome Persuasion<\/em>, our book, could have been called <em>Winsome Neighbor Love<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe New Testament church flourished because Romans knew, at the end of the day: \u201cI was loved by people who were willing to lay down their lives for my safety. Even if I never come around to the gospel, they still would lay down their life; because I\u2019m made in the image of God and they care for me deeply.\u201d That kind of love is the Mother Teresa love we\u2019re talking about that gets us into the game to have productive conversations.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>In 26 years of broadcasting, I\u2019ve made a lot of mistakes, here, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; but occasionally, we\u2019ll do something that really resonates with a person. I\u2019ll never forget the email that came from a transgendered person in Washington, DC. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis person wrote to tell us how, as a person, he had been rejected by the church on multiple occasions when he came out and shared his gender; and he said: \u201cBut I didn\u2019t hear that kind of bullying, that kind of rejection, that kind of withdrawal of relationship when you had your guest on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You talked directly to me. You spoke with love to me; and I just wanted to write and say, \u2018Thank you.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou said it earlier: \u201cAll people are made in the image of God.\u201d Even the people who don\u2019t believe as we believe are image-bearers. How then shall we love them, and how should we speak of them, and how should we speak to them? Your book, <em>Winsome Persuasion<\/em>, is a <em>great<\/em> exhortation for us to up our game and to represent Jesus Christ with authenticity and with the true love of Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and it may be that not everybody agrees on tactics as we engage with others, but I think everybody can agree that we have to be full of grace and full of truth as we represent Christ in our world; and we haven\u2019t always done that well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d encourage people to get a copy of Dr. Muehlhoff\u2019s book, <em>Winsome Persuasion: Christian Influence in a Post-Christian World<\/em>. We have copies of the book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order the book, <em>Winsome Persuasion<\/em>. Our number is 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of our goals, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is to speak the truth in love every day on this program. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want, not only to represent the truth of the Bible, we want to represent it with grace, with love, with kindness. Our prayer is that this program would continue, by God\u2019s grace, to impact more and more people, year in and year out. We want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who partner with us. You\u2019re helping us reach more people, more regularly, with God\u2019s blueprints for marriage and family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDuring the month of August, we\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have offered to match every donation we receive during this month on a dollar-for-dollar basis, up to a total of $500,000. The month is winding down, and we want to ask those of you, who are regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners, to go online or to call us and make a donation so that we can take full advantage of this matching-gift opportunity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate; and when you do, we want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of Dennis and Barbara Rainey\u2019s new book, <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s our way of saying, \u201cThank you for all you do to make <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>possible and for partnering with us in this outreach.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back again tomorrow. We\u2019re going to continue our conversation with Tim Muehlhoff about how we can speak the truth in love, full of grace and truth, in a post-Christian world. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300351","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300351"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300351"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300351"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300351"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300351"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300351"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300351"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}