{"id":300331,"date":"2018-08-14T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-08-14T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/secret-addiction\/"},"modified":"2025-05-06T12:44:45","modified_gmt":"2025-05-06T16:44:45","slug":"secret-addiction","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/secret-addiction\/","title":{"rendered":"Secret Addiction"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Recovering porn addict Jonathan Daugherty talks candidly about the effects of porn on the brain and behavior. Although involved in a Bible study in college, Daugherty led a double life and continued to satisfy his lust through porn and illicit relationships. Daugherty met his wife in 1994, and explains how he kept his secret addiction hidden as they planned their future.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jonathan Daugherty talks candidly about the effects of porn on the brain and behavior. In college Daugherty led a double life and continued to satisfy his lust through porn and illicit relationships.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-08-14.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:03","filesize":"25.69M","filesize_raw":"26937152","date_recorded":"2018-08-14 11:00:00","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2840,2826,2844],"tags":[2872,4083,2989,2487,2385],"podcast_series":[7238],"cwp_profile":[8847],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300331","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-addiction","category-men","category-pornography","tag-addiction","tag-effects-of-pornography","tag-pornography","tag-sexual-addiction","tag-shame","podcast_series-secrets","cwp_profile-jonathan-daugherty","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300331\/secret-addiction","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300331\/secret-addiction","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"UFAvcl45A6\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/secret-addiction\/\">Secret Addiction<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/secret-addiction\/embed\/#?secret=UFAvcl45A6\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Secret Addiction&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"UFAvcl45A6\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-08-14.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-08-14.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>When Jonathan Daugherty\u2019s relationship with his girlfriend became serious, he knew he had to come clean with her about his past\u2014but he decided not to come all the way clean\u2014not to tell her about his involvement with pornography.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>When we did start talking about marriage, I felt like, \u201cI have to share something with her,\u201d so I did share with her that I was not a virgin. That was difficult to get through, but she came back and essentially offered me this incredible grace of saying that she loved me and wanted to marry me.<\/p>\n<p>But also, that\u2019s the moment when I said, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m not going to share anything more from my past,\u201d\u2014not because I wanted to seek to destroy her life but because I had the same thinking that a lot of men have, which is what I call the \u201cfallacy of fresh-start thinking.\u201d\u2014\u201cIf we can just start something new, that\u2019d leave everything in the past. We don\u2019t ever have to bring it up, then everything will be better.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, August 14<sup>th<\/sup>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>1:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. How many fianc\u00e9s\u2014who became husbands\u2014have fallen prey to the fallacy of fresh-start thinking only to find themselves still going to pornography after their marriage? We\u2019re going to talk more about that today. Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, I was just sitting here thinking about the fact that when you and I grew up, in the culture, at that point in time, there was beginning to be a promotion\u2014a normalization\u2014of pornography. Magazines like <em>Playboy <\/em>came out and tried to make pornography feel sophisticated, tried to take it out from hiding and say, \u201cNo, this is good, this is healthy, this is something that we celebrate.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>2:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I was talking to a friend recently who said his son was with a group of young professionals and they were having a get-to-know-you conversation, and the first question that was thrown out was, \u201cWhat\u2019s your favorite pornography?\u201d This young man looked up and thought, \u201cThis is the conversation we\u2019re going to have to get to know one another? \u2018What\u2019s your favorite pornography?\u2019\u201d That\u2019s how normalized this activity\u2014this behavior\u2014has become in our culture today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019m glad for guys like Jonathan Daugherty, who heads up a ministry called Be Broken Ministries that is a ministry to men who have had experience with pornography, perhaps addictions. Jonathan has written a book called <em>Secrets: A True Story of Addiction, Infidelity, and Second Chances<\/em>, and is back with us for a second day on the broadcast. Jonathan, welcome back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Thank you, I\u2019m glad to be here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Jonathan, you shared earlier that, as a 12-year-old boy, you were exposed by a friend to pornography. You didn\u2019t ask to see it, you didn\u2019t know what it was, but it was electrifying\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>3:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014and it started you off on a quest where you began to feed that addiction throughout your teenage years. I was curious\u2014tell me about your dating experience as you were addicted to pornography. How do you think it impacted your opinion of girls as you dated them?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Sure. Well, through my high school years I really didn\u2019t date anybody, and part of it was\u2014you know, I mentioned to you guys in the last broadcast that I was kind of chicken on many different levels. Here I am\u2014I\u2019m a great athlete, kind of popular in school\u2014but I was not typical in that way, where it\u2019s like I\u2019m girl-chasing or whatever. It wasn\u2019t that I wasn\u2019t interested\u2014there was a sense of shyness to me, socially\u2014in that regard.<\/p>\n<p>That was another reason why pornography became this attractive outlet to me\u2014because it could be private\u2014it could be isolated, it could be secluded, separate, and kind of a fantasy world. The problem with that, it was constructing an idea in my mind\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>4:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014about what femininity was, about what relationships look like, about what sex was really all about\u2014and of course, everything about pornography is a lie\u2014in all of those categories. So then, when I got into college and I actually did start pursuing some dating relationships, none of them went beyond three months. Part of it was because here I had been building this double life, right\u2014this dividedness\u2014where I had this image that I would present of this guy who\u2019s a great Christian guy, got it all together\u2014while on the inside I\u2019m kind of decaying with all of my lies.<\/p>\n<p>What typically happens in a dating relationship once you get about three months in? It\u2019s kind of like the person you\u2019re dating says, \u201cSo, let\u2019s get to know the serious you. Let\u2019s dig a couple layers deeper.\u201d I would always just freak out and say, \u201cSee you later. I don\u2019t want to do that.\u201d Pornography in some ways also creates a shallowness to us in terms of our ability to connect with other people\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>5:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014because pornography keeps us from actually dealing with the deeper issues of our hearts\u2014in terms of our emotional selves.<\/p>\n<p>When we look at pornography\u2014even going back to what you were talking about, Bob, with the <em>Playboy<\/em> and the normalization of pornography\u2014it sort of became a gateway for every kind of perversion and pleasure and anything that you could imagine sexually. We see a lot of the results, then, of pornography today in all of the sexual confusion.<\/p>\n<p>Even pornography has changed over the years in terms of its focus. The massive amounts of confusion and availability that there is of pornography out there, it\u2019s causing us to then think that, \u201cOh, maybe we should just reconsider this whole idea of marriage, maybe we just reconsider this whole idea of gender.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Everything is being questioned, and I think pornography has had a huge influence in that because it has normalized what has historically been a perversion of the design that we were made for by God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>6:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I think that\u2019s an entry point for all of that kind of confusion\u2014also delay\u2014because people are then saying, \u201cI don\u2019t want to have anything to do with something so archaic as those biblical ideas.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>What we\u2019re seeing\u2014as we talk to couples in marriage\u2014is a decline in husbands being interested in marital sexuality. It used to be\u2014the old stereotype was that the husbands were always interested and the wives had a headache. There are a lot more men who are reporting headaches these days because they have bonded with their pornography\u2014it\u2019s much easier for them to find gratification there than it is in a marriage.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s what we try to uncover when we\u2019re doing our workshops and dealing with husbands and wives. In fact, our workshop\u2014what we end up doing is we focus very little on behavior\u2014because what we have found over the years in doing our workshops with men is that what men need more than anything is they need emotional training. So, what happens is it\u2019s almost like, if you only deal with the symptom\u2014you\u2019re not going to get to the root issue.<\/p>\n<p><strong>7:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>When I use the word \u201cemotional,\u201d we use it synonymously with \u201cspiritual.\u201d You need emotional training, because where do we live from? We live from our hearts. When guys have been consuming pornography to where it sinks down into their hearts, what ends up happening is the way they react to life from their heart is through a pornographic grid.<\/p>\n<p>They might have all this head knowledge of Scripture and the Bible, but they\u2019re living from their broken, porn-infested hearts. So we want to help them grow up emotionally, and then it takes care\u2014later on\u2014of the behavioral issues.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> That was the case for you in college\u2014you were compartmentalized, active in the Baptist Student Union, known around campus as a guy who was a Christian\u2014with this secret that was regular for you. Was this a daily, weekly activity for you to look at porn?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>At least weekly, yes. It was regular at that point in time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, and I just want to go back and touch on something you just hinted at. You talk about how men need to grow up\u2014you didn\u2019t say it this bluntly\u2014but we need to grow up emotionally. I agree with that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>8:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I feel like a good bit of my first years of marriage\u2014Bob and I have talked about it here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> repeatedly\u2014how marriage is an opportunity God gives us to grow up emotionally and to get in touch with some of this. There was something else that occurred in your life right around your senior year in high school\u2014or in college\u2014where your dad became ill and something happened that touched you dramatically.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, speaking of traumas and the things that can traumatize\u2014so, I\u2019m 18 years old\u2014I actually had gotten selected to be an all-star in the McDonald\u2019s all-star basketball game\u2014I mean, it was a great honor. While I was away in the summer for that I get the call from my mom that my dad\u2019s been put in the hospital\u2014and I didn\u2019t know what was going on. Two months later, my dad passed away. Just the shock of that, not only how I learned about that, but then here I am\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>9:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014less than one month into my freshman year of college\u2014and I lose the one man that I respected more than any man alive.<\/p>\n<p>I think that created a lot of confusion in my spirit and in my soul because again\u2014here one of the things that my struggle with pornography was causing me to believe about God was, He either doesn\u2019t care or He doesn\u2019t hear or He\u2019s not powerful enough. And then, for Him to take my dad away\u2014that\u2019s the way I saw it\u2014God gives and takes away; right? So I saw that He took my dad away and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cNow God\u2019s cruel.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>At that point I sort of drove a stake in the ground, where \u201cI will continue to present myself as others want to see me\u2014but my heart will grow cold towards God.\u201d I was angry with God. That\u2019s what really\u2014I think\u2014started to accelerate the pornography and sexual addiction, because I truly believe that our hearts cannot contain the weight of that kind of pain\u2014and anger even\u2014towards God perpetually\u2014so we need relief.<\/p>\n<p><strong>10:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The only place I felt I could find relief was in the pleasure of pornography.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When did you begin to experience it in community?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes. I call it crossing the flesh barrier\u2014that was in college. It wasn\u2019t just pornography anymore\u2014now I\u2019m actually being sexual with other people. That is something that continued on through college. The whole time, though, I\u2019m living this double life\u2014I\u2019m still part of the BSU, I\u2019m still leading\u2014even leading Bible studies. That\u2019s something I look back on with a great deal of\u2014I think\u2014godly shame. I\u2019m ashamed that I was portraying God\u2019s Word through such a disingenuous vessel.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you\u2014in the summer of 1994\u2014met the woman who would become your wife, how was your double life going at that point?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Pretty strong. When I met her\u2014and this is the case sometimes\u2014isn\u2019t it, with our wives\u2014we meet her, and then it\u2019s like\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>11:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014\u201cI want to change everything. I want to be good. I want to be the best guy there ever was,\u201d you know? But she didn\u2019t know anything about what was going on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your secret life was completely sealed off.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes. Now, what ended up happening was when we started talking about marriage, I felt like, \u201cI have to share something with her in order to at least say\u2014\u201d I don\u2019t know if it was like testing the waters or what\u2014I did share with her that I was not a virgin. That was difficult to get through, but she came back and essentially offered me this incredible grace of saying that she loved me and wanted to marry me.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s when I knew, \u201cSomething\u2019s unique about this woman\u201d\u2014but also, that\u2019s the moment when I said, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m not going to share anything more from my past,\u201d\u2014not because I wanted to seek to destroy her life but because I had the same thinking that a lot of men have, which is what I call the \u201cfallacy of fresh-start thinking.\u201d\u2014\u201cIf we can just start something new, that\u2019d leave everything in the past. We don\u2019t ever have to bring it up, then everything will be better.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>12:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> You had to be thinking too, what a lot of young men think, which is, \u201cOnce I\u2019m married, then the desire for pornography is going to go completely away because I have opportunity, anytime now, to have sex with my wife;\u201d right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Sure, that\u2019s a really common thought, especially among Christian men. This idea that\u2014because sometimes the way we frame up sexuality when Christian kids are growing up in their homes is it\u2019s all a, \u201cDon\u2019t! Don\u2019t!\u00a0 Don\u2019t!\u201d Anti-, Anti-, Anti\u2014so all that guy can think about is, \u201cI want to get married because I want to be sexual;\u201d you know? It\u2019s kind of poor framing on our part, sometimes, as parents.<\/p>\n<p>I absolutely had that thought\u2014not realizing that actually the depth of real sexual intimacy is completely tied to the depth of true relational and emotional intimacy\u2014and because I was so stunted and sort of cut off from myself emotionally\u2014I was going into something that was destined to not work out very well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>13:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When you ended up tying the knot, you\u2019d still not confessed what you were experiencing. You said earlier that you\u2019ve seen a direct correlation between men who are addicted to pornography also have a problem with anger. How did anger show up in your marriage?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>In every possible way. I mean, even silly things like\u2014I can\u2019t open a bag of chips so I\u2019m going to punch a hole through the kitchen wall. I mean\u2014just irrational responses to very small things. My wife was just struggling\u2014because then she\u2019s thinking, \u201cWhat happened to this guy?\u201d When you\u2019re dating, you can put on a good show; right? I mean, who puts forth their bad foot when they\u2019re dating\u2014you\u2019re going to put forward your best foot.<\/p>\n<p>The thing is, getting married began to expose some of these areas that showed just how broken I was, but I was still staunchly committed to not\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>14:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014sharing anything about what had gone on previously with the porn.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>How long into your marriage before you started looking at porn again?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, it was probably about five to six months in. The thing is, I mean, the honeymoon phase was awesome. I really wanted to go out and tell every guy, \u201cHey, go get married, because it will absolutely cure your porn problem,\u201d\u2014for about six weeks. But after that, the stressors started to come up, and really\u2014actively getting back into pornography happened about six months in\u2014because that\u2019s when we got a computer. This sort of dates ourselves; right?<\/p>\n<p>We got a computer, got on\u2014this was when dial-up internet was just coming out\u2014and I got on and got back into pornography. Then it eventually led to other things as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This was all hidden from your wife? She knew nothing about what you were looking at. So this is late at night\u2014she\u2019s gone to bed\u2014and you\u2019re just surfing, finding porn on the internet?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. And you said it led to other things later in your marriage?<\/p>\n<p><strong>15:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, because eventually\u2026they came out with chat technology, and then I started using chat rooms to eventually set up offline encounters and be sexual with other people. That\u2019s really when deep depression, severe anxiety, suicidal ideations began in my life\u2014because I thought, \u201cThere is really nothing that\u2019s going to cure my problem,\u201d\u2014and I became hopeless.<\/p>\n<p>For the next four years it was this journey into deeper, deeper hopelessness, where eventually it was not uncommon for me to get on the internet in the morning and by that night I\u2019m having sex with somebody I just met online.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>And this is acting out on an ongoing basis\u2014it\u2019s leading you deeper into hopelessness\u2014but you\u2019re not seeing, \u201cThere\u2019s a link here between what I\u2019m doing and the depression and the hopelessness I\u2019m feeling\u201d?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Oh, there\u2019s definitely a link, but there is a certain point\u2014we kind of call it the tipping point\u2014when you\u2019re starting to talk about things that might be compulsive or addictive behaviors\u2014there\u2019s a tipping point at which you have so\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>16:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014sort of dug yourself into the quicksand that anything you even try at that point, you\u2019re just getting deeper. It\u2019s kind of a tipping point where it\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m stuck,\u201d and even feeble attempts to try\u2014it\u2019s like, I\u2019m only going to keep going in one direction.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to go back to when you fell in love with Elaine. Ultimately told her you loved her\u2014which you\u2019ve never done with another woman\u2014and then asked her to marry you. I\u2019m wondering, what would have happened\u2014I\u2019m assuming it didn\u2019t, by the way\u2014but what would have happened if her father had asked to meet with you and said, \u201cJonathan, we\u2019re going to have some heart-to-heart talks over the next five or six weeks,\u201d\u2014or five or six months. He would have asked you point-blank, \u201cTell me about your history with pornography.\u201d What would you have done?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I probably would have given him maybe the party line that I had given my wife when I had confessed to her previously about not being a virgin.<\/p>\n<p><strong>17:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The amount that I would want to share, just to show that, \u201cHey, I\u2019m a regular guy, I\u2019m just kind of like any other guy\u2014\u201d You know, the idea that it would not show the devastating nature and depths to which I had gone. I probably would have pretended.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You would have kept a secret.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>To a certain degree, absolutely. The fullness of it\u2014absolutely I would have kept it a secret\u2014because that was the paradigm that had been established, was this secrecy that kept me in the center and tried to have everything else revolve around me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I would just say to any mom or dad who does have a conversation with your children about pornography and they talk about something they\u2019ve been exposed to\u2014just realize that the way Jonathan has just described\u2014it\u2019s a little bit like an onion. You\u2019ll be allowed to see a layer, but you\u2019ll have to keep asking questions and ask if that\u2019s all\u2014and keep probing\u2014appropriately\u2014with grace and compassion obviously.<\/p>\n<p><strong>18:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember seeing a series of accountability questions that\u2014I think Chuck Swindoll wrote about it in a book one time\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I remember that. Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014where he talked about, \u201cHave you used money unwisely?\u201d \u201cHave you said wrong things?\u201d and one of them was, \u201cHave you looked at anything you shouldn\u2019t look at this week?\u201d But the last question was the best question, \u201cDid you just lie to me about any of these things?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m thinking of that father having a conversation with his own son or a father-in-law with a son-in-law. Part of the probing may need to be asking that other question, \u201cAre you telling me the truth here?\u201d\u2014or doubling back and saying, \u201cYou shared this with me. I appreciate you sharing with me. Is that all? Is there more here?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, and I\u2019m not wanting to be simplistic about this. This is\u2014as you said earlier, Bob\u2014it is an epidemic in our country. But I think one of the reasons why it is\u2014is that fathers and mothers have allowed too much distance to occur between their relationship that they have with their son or daughter and are not probing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>19:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Given the culture we\u2019re in\u2014this is a sex-saturated culture! I pray for my grandkids\u2014I tell you\u2014and I pray for my adult children as well, because no one is exempt from this. I couldn\u2019t help but think of your question that you ask men to share in your retreats that you do for your organization\u2014Be Broken Ministries\u2014have them share about the first time they saw pornography.<\/p>\n<p>Honestly, I grew up in such a <em>Leave It to Beaver<\/em> little small town\u20141300 people\u2014and I didn\u2019t buy it at the drugstore, because the lady at the drugstore would call my mom. She\u2019d have told on me. So, I don\u2019t think I\u2019d ever really seen true pornography until I got to college\u2014and even then it was not the exposure like you\u2019re talking about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>20:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I walked by a set of steps that went down in my fraternity house when I was a junior,<\/p>\n<p>I heard some ruckus going on down in the darkness.I said, \u201cWhat are they doing down there?\u201d They said, \u201cOh, they have skin flicks.\u201d I had to have them tell me what a skin flick was\u2014I didn\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p>I look back on my protected environment, and I thank God for it\u2014I really do\u2014because it\u2019s like\u2014I could have been addicted\u2014just like anybody else\u2014if I\u2019d have been exposed at 12 years of age.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>But it may be that dads who are listening today need to figure out when they\u2019re going to have the conversation with their sons to say, \u201cI want to share with you about my first exposure\u2014my first experience\u2014and tell you what it did for me,\u201d\u2014and have that kind of a confession session that opens up the dialogue and the conversation.<\/p>\n<p>It might be good to have a copy of Jonathan\u2019s book, <em>Secrets<\/em>, available before you have that conversation.<\/p>\n<p><strong>21:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Jonathan shares his story but also shares help and hope for people who have found themselves where he found himself in his marriage and in his family. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order the book <em>Secrets: A True Story of Addiction, Infidelity, and Second Chances<\/em> by Jonathan Daugherty. Our website again\u2014FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY. 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m thinking about the ongoing back to school parenting prayer challenge that we\u2019ve had going on here for a few weeks. Moms and dads have been getting in touch with us\u2014giving us their email address\u2014and we have been sending out a regular daily prayer prompt for your children as they head back to school. How many young men and young women are finding themselves tempted or exposed to pornography in a school classroom\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>22:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014because of somebody\u2019s smartphone\u2014or in a college dorm room, where there\u2019s unfiltered access to all kinds of evil?<\/p>\n<p>This is something we need to be praying for for our children\u2014as their parents and as their grandparents\u2014and I hope the moms and dads who are listening\u2014or the grandparents who are listening\u2014will sign up for this 30-day back to school parenting prayer challenge. We\u2019ll start sending you a prayer prompt every day in your e-mail inbox for the next 30 days so you can be praying for your kids\u2014or your grandkids\u2014during this transition time as they head back to school this fall.<\/p>\n<p>Here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>\u00ae, our goal is to provide you with practical, biblical help and hope for your marriage and family\u2014things like the prayer challenge. You make that possible when you support this ministry, when you partner with us and help cover the cost of producing and syndicating this daily radio program, helping us get the word out to more people through more platforms\u2014like the Amazon smart speakers, where you can now hear <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>23:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Just program your app, type the word \u201c<em>FamilyLife<\/em>\u201d into the app, and get your speaker ready to play the program when you say the speaker\u2019s name and then say, \u201cPlay <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u201d All of this we\u2019re doing, we\u2019re doing together with those of you who support this ministry so that more husbands and wives\u2014more moms and dads\u2014can be effectively developing godly marriages and families, one home at a time.<\/p>\n<p>This month, if you\u2019re able to help with a donation, there are two things that will happen. First of all, your donation will be doubled because of a matching gift that we have going on here at the ministry. Every donation we receive is matched dollar for dollar\u2014up to a total of 500,000 dollars\u2014thanks to the generosity of friends of this ministry who have put this matching gift together.<\/p>\n<p>And when you make a donation you\u2019ll be first in line to get a copy of Dennis and Barbara\u2019s new book, <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em>. We are waiting for the book to arrive\u2014and as soon as it does, we will ship a copy to you as a thank-you for your support of this ministry.<\/p>\n<p><strong>24:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Again, your donation will be doubled when you do\u2014or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. We appreciate your support of all we\u2019re doing here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>We hope you can join us back tomorrow. Jonathan Daugherty\u2019s going to be here again and we\u2019re going to talk about how a man can begin the process of being set free from bondage to sexual sin. Hope you can tune in for that.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of <em>FamilyLife<\/em> of Little Rock, Arkansas. A Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. 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Daugherty talks candidly about the effects of porn on the brain and behavior. In college Daugherty led a double life and continued to satisfy his lust through porn and illicit relationships.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.bebroken.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Be Broken Ministries<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.puresexradio.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Pure Sex Radio Podcast<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-08-14.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>When Jonathan Daugherty\u2019s relationship with his girlfriend became serious, he knew he had to come clean with her about his past\u2014but he decided not to come all the way clean\u2014not to tell her about his involvement with pornography.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>When we did start talking about marriage, I felt like, \u201cI have to share something with her,\u201d so I did share with her that I was not a virgin. That was difficult to get through, but she came back and essentially offered me this incredible grace of saying that she loved me and wanted to marry me.<\/p>\n<p>But also, that\u2019s the moment when I said, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m not going to share anything more from my past,\u201d\u2014not because I wanted to seek to destroy her life but because I had the same thinking that a lot of men have, which is what I call the \u201cfallacy of fresh-start thinking.\u201d\u2014\u201cIf we can just start something new, that\u2019d leave everything in the past. We don\u2019t ever have to bring it up, then everything will be better.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, August 14<sup>th<\/sup>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>1:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. How many fianc\u00e9s\u2014who became husbands\u2014have fallen prey to the fallacy of fresh-start thinking only to find themselves still going to pornography after their marriage? We\u2019re going to talk more about that today. Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, I was just sitting here thinking about the fact that when you and I grew up, in the culture, at that point in time, there was beginning to be a promotion\u2014a normalization\u2014of pornography. Magazines like <em>Playboy <\/em>came out and tried to make pornography feel sophisticated, tried to take it out from hiding and say, \u201cNo, this is good, this is healthy, this is something that we celebrate.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>2:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I was talking to a friend recently who said his son was with a group of young professionals and they were having a get-to-know-you conversation, and the first question that was thrown out was, \u201cWhat\u2019s your favorite pornography?\u201d This young man looked up and thought, \u201cThis is the conversation we\u2019re going to have to get to know one another? \u2018What\u2019s your favorite pornography?\u2019\u201d That\u2019s how normalized this activity\u2014this behavior\u2014has become in our culture today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019m glad for guys like Jonathan Daugherty, who heads up a ministry called Be Broken Ministries that is a ministry to men who have had experience with pornography, perhaps addictions. Jonathan has written a book called <em>Secrets: A True Story of Addiction, Infidelity, and Second Chances<\/em>, and is back with us for a second day on the broadcast. Jonathan, welcome back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Thank you, I\u2019m glad to be here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Jonathan, you shared earlier that, as a 12-year-old boy, you were exposed by a friend to pornography. You didn\u2019t ask to see it, you didn\u2019t know what it was, but it was electrifying\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>3:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014and it started you off on a quest where you began to feed that addiction throughout your teenage years. I was curious\u2014tell me about your dating experience as you were addicted to pornography. How do you think it impacted your opinion of girls as you dated them?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Sure. Well, through my high school years I really didn\u2019t date anybody, and part of it was\u2014you know, I mentioned to you guys in the last broadcast that I was kind of chicken on many different levels. Here I am\u2014I\u2019m a great athlete, kind of popular in school\u2014but I was not typical in that way, where it\u2019s like I\u2019m girl-chasing or whatever. It wasn\u2019t that I wasn\u2019t interested\u2014there was a sense of shyness to me, socially\u2014in that regard.<\/p>\n<p>That was another reason why pornography became this attractive outlet to me\u2014because it could be private\u2014it could be isolated, it could be secluded, separate, and kind of a fantasy world. The problem with that, it was constructing an idea in my mind\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>4:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014about what femininity was, about what relationships look like, about what sex was really all about\u2014and of course, everything about pornography is a lie\u2014in all of those categories. So then, when I got into college and I actually did start pursuing some dating relationships, none of them went beyond three months. Part of it was because here I had been building this double life, right\u2014this dividedness\u2014where I had this image that I would present of this guy who\u2019s a great Christian guy, got it all together\u2014while on the inside I\u2019m kind of decaying with all of my lies.<\/p>\n<p>What typically happens in a dating relationship once you get about three months in? It\u2019s kind of like the person you\u2019re dating says, \u201cSo, let\u2019s get to know the serious you. Let\u2019s dig a couple layers deeper.\u201d I would always just freak out and say, \u201cSee you later. I don\u2019t want to do that.\u201d Pornography in some ways also creates a shallowness to us in terms of our ability to connect with other people\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>5:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014because pornography keeps us from actually dealing with the deeper issues of our hearts\u2014in terms of our emotional selves.<\/p>\n<p>When we look at pornography\u2014even going back to what you were talking about, Bob, with the <em>Playboy<\/em> and the normalization of pornography\u2014it sort of became a gateway for every kind of perversion and pleasure and anything that you could imagine sexually. We see a lot of the results, then, of pornography today in all of the sexual confusion.<\/p>\n<p>Even pornography has changed over the years in terms of its focus. The massive amounts of confusion and availability that there is of pornography out there, it\u2019s causing us to then think that, \u201cOh, maybe we should just reconsider this whole idea of marriage, maybe we just reconsider this whole idea of gender.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Everything is being questioned, and I think pornography has had a huge influence in that because it has normalized what has historically been a perversion of the design that we were made for by God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>6:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I think that\u2019s an entry point for all of that kind of confusion\u2014also delay\u2014because people are then saying, \u201cI don\u2019t want to have anything to do with something so archaic as those biblical ideas.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>What we\u2019re seeing\u2014as we talk to couples in marriage\u2014is a decline in husbands being interested in marital sexuality. It used to be\u2014the old stereotype was that the husbands were always interested and the wives had a headache. There are a lot more men who are reporting headaches these days because they have bonded with their pornography\u2014it\u2019s much easier for them to find gratification there than it is in a marriage.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>That\u2019s what we try to uncover when we\u2019re doing our workshops and dealing with husbands and wives. In fact, our workshop\u2014what we end up doing is we focus very little on behavior\u2014because what we have found over the years in doing our workshops with men is that what men need more than anything is they need emotional training. So, what happens is it\u2019s almost like, if you only deal with the symptom\u2014you\u2019re not going to get to the root issue.<\/p>\n<p><strong>7:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>When I use the word \u201cemotional,\u201d we use it synonymously with \u201cspiritual.\u201d You need emotional training, because where do we live from? We live from our hearts. When guys have been consuming pornography to where it sinks down into their hearts, what ends up happening is the way they react to life from their heart is through a pornographic grid.<\/p>\n<p>They might have all this head knowledge of Scripture and the Bible, but they\u2019re living from their broken, porn-infested hearts. So we want to help them grow up emotionally, and then it takes care\u2014later on\u2014of the behavioral issues.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> That was the case for you in college\u2014you were compartmentalized, active in the Baptist Student Union, known around campus as a guy who was a Christian\u2014with this secret that was regular for you. Was this a daily, weekly activity for you to look at porn?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>At least weekly, yes. It was regular at that point in time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, and I just want to go back and touch on something you just hinted at. You talk about how men need to grow up\u2014you didn\u2019t say it this bluntly\u2014but we need to grow up emotionally. I agree with that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>8:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I feel like a good bit of my first years of marriage\u2014Bob and I have talked about it here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> repeatedly\u2014how marriage is an opportunity God gives us to grow up emotionally and to get in touch with some of this. There was something else that occurred in your life right around your senior year in high school\u2014or in college\u2014where your dad became ill and something happened that touched you dramatically.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, speaking of traumas and the things that can traumatize\u2014so, I\u2019m 18 years old\u2014I actually had gotten selected to be an all-star in the McDonald\u2019s all-star basketball game\u2014I mean, it was a great honor. While I was away in the summer for that I get the call from my mom that my dad\u2019s been put in the hospital\u2014and I didn\u2019t know what was going on. Two months later, my dad passed away. Just the shock of that, not only how I learned about that, but then here I am\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>9:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014less than one month into my freshman year of college\u2014and I lose the one man that I respected more than any man alive.<\/p>\n<p>I think that created a lot of confusion in my spirit and in my soul because again\u2014here one of the things that my struggle with pornography was causing me to believe about God was, He either doesn\u2019t care or He doesn\u2019t hear or He\u2019s not powerful enough. And then, for Him to take my dad away\u2014that\u2019s the way I saw it\u2014God gives and takes away; right? So I saw that He took my dad away and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cNow God\u2019s cruel.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>At that point I sort of drove a stake in the ground, where \u201cI will continue to present myself as others want to see me\u2014but my heart will grow cold towards God.\u201d I was angry with God. That\u2019s what really\u2014I think\u2014started to accelerate the pornography and sexual addiction, because I truly believe that our hearts cannot contain the weight of that kind of pain\u2014and anger even\u2014towards God perpetually\u2014so we need relief.<\/p>\n<p><strong>10:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The only place I felt I could find relief was in the pleasure of pornography.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When did you begin to experience it in community?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Yes. I call it crossing the flesh barrier\u2014that was in college. It wasn\u2019t just pornography anymore\u2014now I\u2019m actually being sexual with other people. That is something that continued on through college. The whole time, though, I\u2019m living this double life\u2014I\u2019m still part of the BSU, I\u2019m still leading\u2014even leading Bible studies. That\u2019s something I look back on with a great deal of\u2014I think\u2014godly shame. I\u2019m ashamed that I was portraying God\u2019s Word through such a disingenuous vessel.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you\u2014in the summer of 1994\u2014met the woman who would become your wife, how was your double life going at that point?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Pretty strong. When I met her\u2014and this is the case sometimes\u2014isn\u2019t it, with our wives\u2014we meet her, and then it\u2019s like\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>11:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014\u201cI want to change everything. I want to be good. I want to be the best guy there ever was,\u201d you know? But she didn\u2019t know anything about what was going on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your secret life was completely sealed off.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes. Now, what ended up happening was when we started talking about marriage, I felt like, \u201cI have to share something with her in order to at least say\u2014\u201d I don\u2019t know if it was like testing the waters or what\u2014I did share with her that I was not a virgin. That was difficult to get through, but she came back and essentially offered me this incredible grace of saying that she loved me and wanted to marry me.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s when I knew, \u201cSomething\u2019s unique about this woman\u201d\u2014but also, that\u2019s the moment when I said, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m not going to share anything more from my past,\u201d\u2014not because I wanted to seek to destroy her life but because I had the same thinking that a lot of men have, which is what I call the \u201cfallacy of fresh-start thinking.\u201d\u2014\u201cIf we can just start something new, that\u2019d leave everything in the past. We don\u2019t ever have to bring it up, then everything will be better.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>12:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> You had to be thinking too, what a lot of young men think, which is, \u201cOnce I\u2019m married, then the desire for pornography is going to go completely away because I have opportunity, anytime now, to have sex with my wife;\u201d right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Sure, that\u2019s a really common thought, especially among Christian men. This idea that\u2014because sometimes the way we frame up sexuality when Christian kids are growing up in their homes is it\u2019s all a, \u201cDon\u2019t! Don\u2019t!\u00a0 Don\u2019t!\u201d Anti-, Anti-, Anti\u2014so all that guy can think about is, \u201cI want to get married because I want to be sexual;\u201d you know? It\u2019s kind of poor framing on our part, sometimes, as parents.<\/p>\n<p>I absolutely had that thought\u2014not realizing that actually the depth of real sexual intimacy is completely tied to the depth of true relational and emotional intimacy\u2014and because I was so stunted and sort of cut off from myself emotionally\u2014I was going into something that was destined to not work out very well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>13:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When you ended up tying the knot, you\u2019d still not confessed what you were experiencing. You said earlier that you\u2019ve seen a direct correlation between men who are addicted to pornography also have a problem with anger. How did anger show up in your marriage?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>In every possible way. I mean, even silly things like\u2014I can\u2019t open a bag of chips so I\u2019m going to punch a hole through the kitchen wall. I mean\u2014just irrational responses to very small things. My wife was just struggling\u2014because then she\u2019s thinking, \u201cWhat happened to this guy?\u201d When you\u2019re dating, you can put on a good show; right? I mean, who puts forth their bad foot when they\u2019re dating\u2014you\u2019re going to put forward your best foot.<\/p>\n<p>The thing is, getting married began to expose some of these areas that showed just how broken I was, but I was still staunchly committed to not\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>14:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014sharing anything about what had gone on previously with the porn.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>How long into your marriage before you started looking at porn again?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, it was probably about five to six months in. The thing is, I mean, the honeymoon phase was awesome. I really wanted to go out and tell every guy, \u201cHey, go get married, because it will absolutely cure your porn problem,\u201d\u2014for about six weeks. But after that, the stressors started to come up, and really\u2014actively getting back into pornography happened about six months in\u2014because that\u2019s when we got a computer. This sort of dates ourselves; right?<\/p>\n<p>We got a computer, got on\u2014this was when dial-up internet was just coming out\u2014and I got on and got back into pornography. Then it eventually led to other things as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This was all hidden from your wife? She knew nothing about what you were looking at. So this is late at night\u2014she\u2019s gone to bed\u2014and you\u2019re just surfing, finding porn on the internet?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes. And you said it led to other things later in your marriage?<\/p>\n<p><strong>15:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Yes, because eventually\u2026they came out with chat technology, and then I started using chat rooms to eventually set up offline encounters and be sexual with other people. That\u2019s really when deep depression, severe anxiety, suicidal ideations began in my life\u2014because I thought, \u201cThere is really nothing that\u2019s going to cure my problem,\u201d\u2014and I became hopeless.<\/p>\n<p>For the next four years it was this journey into deeper, deeper hopelessness, where eventually it was not uncommon for me to get on the internet in the morning and by that night I\u2019m having sex with somebody I just met online.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>And this is acting out on an ongoing basis\u2014it\u2019s leading you deeper into hopelessness\u2014but you\u2019re not seeing, \u201cThere\u2019s a link here between what I\u2019m doing and the depression and the hopelessness I\u2019m feeling\u201d?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>Oh, there\u2019s definitely a link, but there is a certain point\u2014we kind of call it the tipping point\u2014when you\u2019re starting to talk about things that might be compulsive or addictive behaviors\u2014there\u2019s a tipping point at which you have so\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>16:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014sort of dug yourself into the quicksand that anything you even try at that point, you\u2019re just getting deeper. It\u2019s kind of a tipping point where it\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m stuck,\u201d and even feeble attempts to try\u2014it\u2019s like, I\u2019m only going to keep going in one direction.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I want to go back to when you fell in love with Elaine. Ultimately told her you loved her\u2014which you\u2019ve never done with another woman\u2014and then asked her to marry you. I\u2019m wondering, what would have happened\u2014I\u2019m assuming it didn\u2019t, by the way\u2014but what would have happened if her father had asked to meet with you and said, \u201cJonathan, we\u2019re going to have some heart-to-heart talks over the next five or six weeks,\u201d\u2014or five or six months. He would have asked you point-blank, \u201cTell me about your history with pornography.\u201d What would you have done?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>I probably would have given him maybe the party line that I had given my wife when I had confessed to her previously about not being a virgin.<\/p>\n<p><strong>17:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The amount that I would want to share, just to show that, \u201cHey, I\u2019m a regular guy, I\u2019m just kind of like any other guy\u2014\u201d You know, the idea that it would not show the devastating nature and depths to which I had gone. I probably would have pretended.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You would have kept a secret.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jonathan: <\/strong>To a certain degree, absolutely. The fullness of it\u2014absolutely I would have kept it a secret\u2014because that was the paradigm that had been established, was this secrecy that kept me in the center and tried to have everything else revolve around me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I would just say to any mom or dad who does have a conversation with your children about pornography and they talk about something they\u2019ve been exposed to\u2014just realize that the way Jonathan has just described\u2014it\u2019s a little bit like an onion. You\u2019ll be allowed to see a layer, but you\u2019ll have to keep asking questions and ask if that\u2019s all\u2014and keep probing\u2014appropriately\u2014with grace and compassion obviously.<\/p>\n<p><strong>18:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>I remember seeing a series of accountability questions that\u2014I think Chuck Swindoll wrote about it in a book one time\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I remember that. Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014where he talked about, \u201cHave you used money unwisely?\u201d \u201cHave you said wrong things?\u201d and one of them was, \u201cHave you looked at anything you shouldn\u2019t look at this week?\u201d But the last question was the best question, \u201cDid you just lie to me about any of these things?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m thinking of that father having a conversation with his own son or a father-in-law with a son-in-law. Part of the probing may need to be asking that other question, \u201cAre you telling me the truth here?\u201d\u2014or doubling back and saying, \u201cYou shared this with me. I appreciate you sharing with me. Is that all? Is there more here?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes, and I\u2019m not wanting to be simplistic about this. This is\u2014as you said earlier, Bob\u2014it is an epidemic in our country. But I think one of the reasons why it is\u2014is that fathers and mothers have allowed too much distance to occur between their relationship that they have with their son or daughter and are not probing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>19:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Given the culture we\u2019re in\u2014this is a sex-saturated culture! I pray for my grandkids\u2014I tell you\u2014and I pray for my adult children as well, because no one is exempt from this. I couldn\u2019t help but think of your question that you ask men to share in your retreats that you do for your organization\u2014Be Broken Ministries\u2014have them share about the first time they saw pornography.<\/p>\n<p>Honestly, I grew up in such a <em>Leave It to Beaver<\/em> little small town\u20141300 people\u2014and I didn\u2019t buy it at the drugstore, because the lady at the drugstore would call my mom. She\u2019d have told on me. So, I don\u2019t think I\u2019d ever really seen true pornography until I got to college\u2014and even then it was not the exposure like you\u2019re talking about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>20:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I walked by a set of steps that went down in my fraternity house when I was a junior,<\/p>\n<p>I heard some ruckus going on down in the darkness.I said, \u201cWhat are they doing down there?\u201d They said, \u201cOh, they have skin flicks.\u201d I had to have them tell me what a skin flick was\u2014I didn\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p>I look back on my protected environment, and I thank God for it\u2014I really do\u2014because it\u2019s like\u2014I could have been addicted\u2014just like anybody else\u2014if I\u2019d have been exposed at 12 years of age.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>But it may be that dads who are listening today need to figure out when they\u2019re going to have the conversation with their sons to say, \u201cI want to share with you about my first exposure\u2014my first experience\u2014and tell you what it did for me,\u201d\u2014and have that kind of a confession session that opens up the dialogue and the conversation.<\/p>\n<p>It might be good to have a copy of Jonathan\u2019s book, <em>Secrets<\/em>, available before you have that conversation.<\/p>\n<p><strong>21:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Jonathan shares his story but also shares help and hope for people who have found themselves where he found himself in his marriage and in his family. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order the book <em>Secrets: A True Story of Addiction, Infidelity, and Second Chances<\/em> by Jonathan Daugherty. Our website again\u2014FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY. 1-800-358-6329. That\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m thinking about the ongoing back to school parenting prayer challenge that we\u2019ve had going on here for a few weeks. Moms and dads have been getting in touch with us\u2014giving us their email address\u2014and we have been sending out a regular daily prayer prompt for your children as they head back to school. How many young men and young women are finding themselves tempted or exposed to pornography in a school classroom\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>22:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u2014because of somebody\u2019s smartphone\u2014or in a college dorm room, where there\u2019s unfiltered access to all kinds of evil?<\/p>\n<p>This is something we need to be praying for for our children\u2014as their parents and as their grandparents\u2014and I hope the moms and dads who are listening\u2014or the grandparents who are listening\u2014will sign up for this 30-day back to school parenting prayer challenge. We\u2019ll start sending you a prayer prompt every day in your e-mail inbox for the next 30 days so you can be praying for your kids\u2014or your grandkids\u2014during this transition time as they head back to school this fall.<\/p>\n<p>Here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>\u00ae, our goal is to provide you with practical, biblical help and hope for your marriage and family\u2014things like the prayer challenge. You make that possible when you support this ministry, when you partner with us and help cover the cost of producing and syndicating this daily radio program, helping us get the word out to more people through more platforms\u2014like the Amazon smart speakers, where you can now hear <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>23:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Just program your app, type the word \u201c<em>FamilyLife<\/em>\u201d into the app, and get your speaker ready to play the program when you say the speaker\u2019s name and then say, \u201cPlay <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u201d All of this we\u2019re doing, we\u2019re doing together with those of you who support this ministry so that more husbands and wives\u2014more moms and dads\u2014can be effectively developing godly marriages and families, one home at a time.<\/p>\n<p>This month, if you\u2019re able to help with a donation, there are two things that will happen. First of all, your donation will be doubled because of a matching gift that we have going on here at the ministry. Every donation we receive is matched dollar for dollar\u2014up to a total of 500,000 dollars\u2014thanks to the generosity of friends of this ministry who have put this matching gift together.<\/p>\n<p>And when you make a donation you\u2019ll be first in line to get a copy of Dennis and Barbara\u2019s new book, <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em>. We are waiting for the book to arrive\u2014and as soon as it does, we will ship a copy to you as a thank-you for your support of this ministry.<\/p>\n<p><strong>24:00<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Again, your donation will be doubled when you do\u2014or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. We appreciate your support of all we\u2019re doing here at <em>FamilyLife<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>We hope you can join us back tomorrow. Jonathan Daugherty\u2019s going to be here again and we\u2019re going to talk about how a man can begin the process of being set free from bondage to sexual sin. Hope you can tune in for that.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of <em>FamilyLife<\/em> of Little Rock, Arkansas. A Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>1<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300331","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300331"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300331"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300331"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300331"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300331"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300331"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300331"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}