{"id":300281,"date":"2018-06-26T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-06-26T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/can-christians-be-depressed\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:27","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:27","slug":"can-christians-be-depressed","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/can-christians-be-depressed\/","title":{"rendered":"Can Christians Be Depressed?"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Matthew Stanford, author of the book, &#8220;Grace for the Afflicted,&#8221; talks about the silent epidemic of depression that is sweeping across the U.S., affecting 45 million people, many of whom get no treatment.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-06-26.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:05","filesize":"26.63M","filesize_raw":"27924164","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2846,2873],"tags":[4432,4009,4431,4434,4433],"podcast_series":[7225],"cwp_profile":[8838],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300281","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-depression","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-compassion","tag-depression","tag-mental-disorders","tag-mental-illness","tag-spiritual-needs","podcast_series-grace-for-the-afflicted","cwp_profile-matthew-stanford","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300281\/can-christians-be-depressed","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300281\/can-christians-be-depressed","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"2K01CZMblf\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/can-christians-be-depressed\/\">Can Christians Be Depressed?<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/can-christians-be-depressed\/embed\/#?secret=2K01CZMblf\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Can Christians Be Depressed?&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"2K01CZMblf\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-06-26.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-06-26.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When a family member or a loved one is dealing with some kind of physical ailment or disease\u2014that can put a stress or strain on family relationships. Matthew Stanford says, when the issue is a mental disorder or disease, the stress and strain can be excruciating for families.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> You know, so I have a client, right now, who has schizoaffective disorder, which is probably the worst of all mental illnesses. It\u2019s like having schizophrenia and bipolar disorder at the same time. Her moods swing between high, euphoric states and really low depression. She doesn\u2019t believe she\u2019s ill\u2014even though, in the same week she told me there was nothing wrong with her, she told me had wood nymphs living inside of her. Her parents struggle; because here they are\u2014they want to care for their daughter\u2014their daughter says she\u2019s not ill; we can\u2019t make her get any treatment. She lives in a delusional nightmare, and her parents suffer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, June 26<sup>th<\/sup>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. It may be that someone in your family is wrestling with a mental illness or mental disorder. How can people help and support you?\u2014and what can you do, as a parent, or as a spouse? We\u2019re going to talk more about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019ve touched on a tough issue this week and one that brings out a lot of concern and passion.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We have. It\u2019s the whole subject of mental health, which involves issues of depression, anxiety, suicide\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014schizophrenia; there\u2019s bipolar disorder\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014addictions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014addictions; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I mean, on and on it goes. I was just making a statement, before we came on the air, to our guest, Dr. Matthew Stanford. By the way, Matthew, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Thanks for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I was just kind of preaching at him\u2014I was just going: \u201cYou know, the Christian community ought to be the leaders in this! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWe ought to be pointing people to a Savior, who compassionately wants to welcome people, who are struggling in the emotional realm.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And here\u2019s part of the issue that we struggle with, as Christians\u2014and by the way, we should say that Matthew has written a book called <em>Grace for the Afflicted: A Clinical and Biblical Perspective on Mental Illness.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And he is the CEO of The Hope and Healing Center and Institute in Houston, Texas. He\u2019s been married to Julie since 1990\u2014and have four children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And we should say\u2014the challenge for us, as Christians, is\u2014we look at behavior issues. Christianity identifies sin patterns in people\u2019s lives\u2014helps people with redemption for sin\/forgiveness but, also, sanctification, which is where your sin is dealt with. We look at some of these behavior disorders; and we go, \u201cThese are just extreme sin patterns in people\u2019s lives.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, we categorize it as that, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How can we tell if somebody is dealing with a mental health issue versus somebody who is just a stubborn, unrepentant sinner?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> You know, I look at Luke 2:52\u2014it says, \u201cJesus grew in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and man.\u201d I see that, kind of, as the four parts of our being: the mind, body, spirit, and relationships. When a person is struggling with a mental health problem, it affects them on all those levels. People with mental health problems\u2014they have the same spiritual needs as everyone else; those spiritual needs, wants, and desires may just be bent by their illness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe question being: \u201cWhen can we tell if somebody has kind of a spiritual problem versus a mental health problem?\u201d What I would say is this: \u201cA person, who has a spiritual problem\u2014when you begin to dissect that problem, there is some <em>sin<\/em> that is associated with it. The person has unrepentant sin, and that\u2019s why they have excessive guilt; and that\u2019s why they\u2019re sad or feel depressed; or why they\u2019re guilty and they have anxiety.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I typically find is that that level of sadness or depression\u2014that level of anxiety or stress\u2014does not usually rise to the level of a disorder that causes them to be <em>dysfunctional<\/em> in their ability to go to work \/ to go to school; it may start to affect their relationships. But, when you have clinical depression, you can\u2019t work normally; you can\u2019t hold normal relationships\u2014it affects every aspect of your being\u2014relationships, mind, body, spirit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you find with some of the spiritual issues is that that spiritual issue tends to be kind of focused in one area, and then it\u2019s just beginning to manifest at some level. The other thing I find is\u2014if someone has a clearly spiritual issue, that\u2019s just spiritual in nature\u2014when they begin to open up to receive spiritual guidance and care, you begin to see that begin to relieve itself; you then see recovery and restoration.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhereas a person who has, say for instance, bipolar disorder, who is being ministered to spiritually\u2014has been given pastoral care and may be even growing in their faith\u2014you don\u2019t necessarily see the symptoms of the bipolar disorder itself changing. You might see how the person perceives them changing or how they perceive themselves or God changing. They may <em>feel<\/em> better, but the symptoms themselves don\u2019t change; because the symptoms have more of a physical basis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And these can overlap; I mean, somebody can have a physical issue and have sin issues.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So we shouldn\u2019t just say, \u201cWell, it\u2019s all this,\u201d or \u201cIt\u2019s all that. Take some meds and that\u2019ll fix everything\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s one of our biggest problems right now. We have a tendency to go to the extremes in <em>every<\/em> aspect. You know, we have people in the secular world saying: \u201cOh, well, you just have this disorder. Take these pills, and you\u2019ll be fine.\u201d And we have people in some parts of Christendom \/ some parts of the church, saying: \u201cWell, this is solely spiritual. Just read through the Proverbs, and everything will be great.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBoth of those are equally <em>wrong<\/em>; because they\u2019re not receiving, accepting, or understanding how God made us as a multi-part unity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need to be, in essence, treated or intervened at <em>all<\/em> levels of our being. I think that\u2019s why the church has an incredible opportunity here, because the church really should be leading here. The church is the one who presents a holistic approach to the human \/ to the world. We\u2019re the ones that have the Book that tells us that, indeed, we are a multi-part being and that all aspects of our being are important to God. I mean, I can tell you\u2014as a mental health care provider, I have <em>never <\/em>had a client who just took medicine and everything was fine after that. You need more than that to have full recovery and healing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I would say the same thing about\u2014you know, a spiritual intervention is very important\u2014but unless it\u2019s a <em>solely<\/em> spiritual issue, you\u2019re not going to get full relief just from a spiritual intervention. That\u2019s not to deny that God doesn\u2019t intervene and miraculously heal at times. I think He absolutely does; and we should pray for healing for anyone who\u2019s ill in any way, but I think that we need to intervene completely in the person\u2019s life, much like we do with other things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would do this with cancer; I mean, if a person has cancer, we know we want them to have a positive attitude; we know we want to be supporting them, spiritually; we know we want to support their family. Let\u2019s just do the same thing for mental health issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the church, I think what we have to do, first and foremost, is understand that these are real illnesses that have, at least, some biological basis\u2014depending on the illness that you\u2019re looking at\u2014and that there\u2019s going to need to be some biological aspect to the treatment, probably. I think, secondly, we have to understand that there\u2019s a difference between a mental illness and a counseling issue. Someone, who has a parenting problem or a marital issue\u2014where they can go to a counselor and have someone give them advice and guide them through that\u2014that is <em>different<\/em> than somebody who has bipolar disorder. That person may need some pastoral care also, but pastoral care alone is not going to be enough to alleviate the <em>symptoms<\/em> of that bipolar disorder.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Matthew, the number one most-prescribed medication in America today\u2014I don\u2019t know if this is worldwide, but in America\u2014is depression medication.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Right; absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That wasn\u2019t the case 40 years ago. Of course, part of that\u2019s because we didn\u2019t have depression medication 40 years ago. Do we have an epidemic of depression that wasn\u2019t around a generation ago, or are we just observing things we didn\u2019t observe before? Why is depression what it is today in our world?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> That\u2019s a great question! It requires kind of a nuanced answer, because the reality is\u2014we absolutely do have a silent epidemic of mental health problems in the world. Four hundred fifty million people in the world suffer from mental health care problems\u2014that would be the third-largest country in the world, if you put it together as a country. In the United States, in a given year\u201445 million individuals, which is an <em>enormous <\/em>number\u2014and that\u2019s just adults; it doesn\u2019t include children. A majority of those individuals receive <em>no<\/em> treatment. Even in the United States, they receive no treatment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, with that being said, anti-depressant medications are <em>heavily<\/em> over-prescribed in <em>ridiculous<\/em> amounts. I mean, it\u2019s unbelievable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe majority of people that receive psychiatric medications in the U.S. receive them from their general practitioner. If they really have clinical depression, then a round of an anti-depressant is an appropriate treatment. If they\u2019re sad\u2014because they have a bad marriage, or financial problems, or whatever, or something else\u2014anti-depressant is not an appropriate treatment to begin with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn top of that, they should also be receiving therapy; because therapy allows you to get the tools and skills necessary for you to be able to walk beyond the medication, hopefully. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRight now, the problem is\u2014we have a lot of overprescribing. Now, this isn\u2019t the first time this has ever happened. Back in the \u201880s, pediatricians were prescribing antibiotics like they were going out of style, and what that\u2019s left us with is a whole bunch of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. There have been some incredible studies done on those pediatricians\u2014that asked them, \u201cWhy would you prescribe an antibiotic for an ear infection you knew was viral?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s always the same answer: \u201c\u2026to appease the parent.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> So why would you <em>not<\/em> think that, when a person goes in to their general practitioner and says: \u201cI\u2019m sad,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m down,\u201d or \u201cI have anxiety and I\u2019m down,\u201d\u2014and anti-depressants are used to treat anxiety also\u2014why do you not think the same thing would happen?\u2014because people want to walk away with something. I think what we need to do is\u2014we need to be better consumers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s also another place where I think the church has a tremendous role to play. If your clergy and staff at your church\u2014if the leaders of your lay ministry at your church\u2014would simply take a short course, like a \u201cMental Health First Aid\u201d or a training to understand and recognize mental health care problems, we know people are more likely to go to clergy and ministry staff <em>before<\/em> they go to physicians and mental health care providers. That\u2019s something the National Institutes of Health found\u2014people in the general population, whether they\u2019re believers or not \/ whether they\u2019re affiliated with a faith community or not\u2014are more likely to go there <em>first<\/em> than to those other people we mentioned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf the church recognized those problems, they could get people to the proper care. They recognize, when someone had a problem, and they could move them into that type of care and pastor them along; or they could say, \u201cNo; this is something that we can handle for you right here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tUnfortunately, we\u2019re just not doing that. We kind of minimize it to say, \u201cYou know, it says, \u2018Be anxious for nothing,\u2019 so that means anxiety is bad. You shouldn\u2019t be anxious.\u201d Well, I mean, that\u2019s just a bad understanding of the Scriptures. You know, I had a pastor once tell me that depression was a sin; because it says, \u201cRejoice always.\u201d Sadly, I asked him, \u201cHave you read the rest of the Scriptures?\u201d because, I mean, unfortunately\u2014when people are fearful of something and they don\u2019t understand it\u2014they\u2019ll have a tendency to kind of wrap it up in some Scripture and try to, you know, put a little bow around it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese are chronic conditions\u2014they can be managed; they\u2019re not quick fixes. This is the epitome of what it means to be burden-bearers and to walk along with somebody and care for them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have to be much more grace-filled, I think, as a community.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Matthew, I want to go back to something that you ran past very quickly. I think there must be listeners, who are\u2014maybe they are taking drugs themselves\u2014or they\u2019re married or have a child, who is taking anti-depressants. You said it is good for a \u201cround\u201d of anti-depressants, perhaps, in certain cases. What\u2019s a \u201cround\u201d? What is a healthy period of time to take drugs for something like depression? I know you can\u2019t generalize an answer to everybody, but try. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Help us out here a little bit!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> \u201cI know you can\u2019t, but <em>do it<\/em>!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> First of all, the cop-out answer is, \u201cIt varies from person to person and depends on the severity of their illness.\u201d But I would say this to those people\u2014so you\u2019ve got people out there\u2014say, for instance, they are taking anti-depressants. Let\u2019s also put in people whose children are taking psycho-stimulants for ADHD, because they kind of fall under the same type of category; because a lot of those come from pediatricians. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are receiving anti-depressant medication for depression or anxiety, or your child is receiving a psycho-stimulant like Adderall<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> or something, and you\u2019re receiving that from a general physician\u2014a pediatrician or a general practitioner\u2014you need to keep taking that medication; but as soon as you can, get an appointment with a psychiatrist\u2014an adult psychiatrist or a child psychiatrist; because they need to evaluate whether you really, actually, have the <em>illness<\/em> that you\u2019re being treated for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the number one problem\u2014is that people are taking medication for illnesses they don\u2019t actually have. Number two\u2014if you\u2019re <em>psychiatrist<\/em> says, \u201cOkay; you do have depression, and we\u2019re going to put you on this medication,\u201d and you go\u2014the number one question you need to ask them is: \u201cHow are you going to assess whether I\u2019m getting better?\u201d because your <em>subjective<\/em> report of how you <em>feel<\/em> is really not good enough; because there is a placebo effect; you <em>want<\/em> to get better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I tell all of my clients, who I refer to psychiatrists that I work with is: \u201cIf you go three months and you see <em>no relief<\/em>\u2014no change in symptoms from medications\u2014you need to ask the psychiatrist: \u2018How have you been assessing me?\u2019 and \u2018How much longer do you want to try this medication before we say it hasn\u2019t been effective and we might try something else?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I see right now, unfortunately, is\u2014I see people, who\u2019ve been on a medication for a year or two\u2014have only seen their psychiatrist two or three times in all of those years\u2014and will tell me, flat-out, \u201cOh, I\u2019ve never gotten any better on this.\u201d When I say, \u201cWhy are you still taking it?\u201d they say, \u201cWell, that\u2019s what they told me to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> I tell them all of the time: \u201cIf you had an infection on your arm, and you went to your doctor and he gave you an antibiotic, and he said, \u2018This is going to clear up that infection,\u2019 and ten days went by and that was still there, you\u2019d be back in that office. So why would you not do the same thing with your depression?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou need to ask good questions. You also need to receive therapy\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014so for the depressive individual or for the anxious individual\u2014psychotherapy \/ a talking therapy\u2014not counseling\u2014but a targeted therapy, like cognitive behavior therapy\u2014something that\u2019s been demonstrated to effectively <em>treat<\/em> depression or anxiety. If you get that therapy, in addition to taking medication, research has shown that you will take less medication; and you will recover more fully and more quickly. The same thing for your children that are on psychostimulants\u2014if you will set up a behavior modification program, with a behavior mod specialist, you will see that, in many instances, they won\u2019t need medication anymore; or they will take less medication.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWithout therapy, all you\u2019re doing with medication is minimizing symptoms. You have <em>no<\/em> opportunity to move beyond that and really take care of what\u2019s underlying the problem. If you\u2019re going to\u2014you know, if you have a first episode depression\u2014you don\u2019t become suicidal \/ you\u2019re still mildly functional\u2014you know, you probably can take medication for six to eight months, along with some therapy. Within a year, you should either be on a very low dose of medicine or not on it anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You bring up therapy, and this is where we start to have some red flags go up: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWho do I put my soul in the hands of?\u201d and \u201cIs behavior modification the goal, or are we now starting to deal with spiritual issues?\u201d Help us understand that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Well, first, let\u2019s say this: psychostimulants are overprescribed. There are a lot kids on Adderall and things like that\u2014Ritalin<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014who don\u2019t need to be on them. We forget, as a society, that normal in childhood is a <em>huge <\/em>tent. We\u2019ve <em>narrowed<\/em> that down to just this: \u201cSit still, Johnny, and watch the opera. Why can\u2019t you sit still?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I can\u2019t do that! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Right; exactly! That\u2019s exactly right! And that\u2019s what we expect. You know, we\u2019ve increased our class sizes. Teachers have <em>way<\/em> too many kids in classrooms. They\u2019re dealing with a lot of behavior problems. It\u2019s a mess; okay? We don\u2019t allow our children to be children. The example I give a lot of times is this\u2014and I deal with this all of the time\u2014I am 52 years old. When I came out of kindergarten, there was no thought that I would know how to read; only that I would recognize some letters, shapes, and colors. Kindergarten was more <em>fun<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNowadays, when a child comes out of kindergarten, if they haven\u2019t reached certain reading milestones, they\u2019re actually labeled as \u201clearning disabled.\u201d Now, what changed? Did children change, or did expectations change? Our expectations have changed <em>dramatically<\/em>; and so, now, as soon as a child shows any kind of a behavior issue, or even one time, they want to put them on medication. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBehavior modification\u2014if a child really does have ADHD\u2014let\u2019s say that they really do have ADHD\u2014the issue right there is that they have not developed impulse control to the point where they can actually control their behavior at the age-appropriate level. What behavior modification does is\u2014it activates those areas of the brain to help their impulse control develop more fully. What you\u2019re <em>not<\/em> doing\u2014is you are not saying, \u201cI just want to change your behavior; I don\u2019t care about your heart,\u201d because Christian parents should be incorporating into that an understanding of the child\u2019s value and worth, within\u00a0 who they are in Christ, and God created them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, that\u2019s the thing that\u2019s missing, a lot of times, in a just kind of a secular approach; because, believe me, the child knows that everybody thinks he\u2019s not worth anything; because he\u2019s the one that always gets in trouble. Helping them understand: \u201cYou have this issue. It\u2019s a developmental issue; you will catch up. This is a short-term fix to help us right now. God has provided these types of things for us; it\u2019s His provision.\u201d That\u2019s an important thing. I think, as far as the question goes about therapy, I know a lot of Christians are very nervous about that and the idea of, \u201cIf I go to somebody, are they going to destroy my faith?\u201d\u2014or whatever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFirst off, I\u2019d say this\u2014if you go to an ethical, competent psychologist or therapist, they will not destroy your faith; that\u2019s <em>not <\/em>going to be their goal. I\u2019ve worked with <em>hundreds<\/em> of secular therapists and psychologists in my lifetime, and they\u2019ve been nothing but supportive of people of faith. What you want to find is a faith-affirming environment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, you ask questions of your mechanic. Why would you not ask questions of your therapist? You know, you\u2019ve got to find somebody you trust; somebody you agree with; somebody that believes they know how to treat your illness with empirically-validated treatment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd you need to ask them about your faith. If your faith is important to <em>you, <\/em>it should be important to them. Now, that\u2019s different than me saying that you need to go to somebody that is of your same faith\u2014or if you\u2019re Methodist, you have to go to a Methodist, or whatever. Some people\u2014if that\u2019s the only way that you would feel comfortable, great; that\u2019s fine. I don\u2019t have any problem with that, but that does limit the number of people you can find. It\u2019s already hard; there are already very limited mental health care providers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you <em>need<\/em> to talk to them about the fact that it\u2019s important for you to pray; it\u2019s important for you to talk about God in the context of your recovery, your healing, and your illness. If they are <em>not<\/em> comfortable with that, you don\u2019t go back to them; you go to someone else. In fact, if you\u2019re having trouble finding somebody, call the Hope and Healing Center. That\u2019s one of the things we do. I don\u2019t care where you are around the country\u2014just call us. We help people find care in their area. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, you can give us some criteria you want. I have people, all the time, say, \u201cWell, you know, I\u2019d rather go see a male therapist.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have more people say that to me than people who would say, \u201cWell, you know, I really want someone who would affirm my faith.\u201d That\u2019s just as important; because, if that\u2019s a core value that you hold\u2014is that God is present, and created you, and cares for you, and loves you\u2014that <em>has to be <\/em>some aspect of what you\u2019re doing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I\u2019m not saying that the person is doing some kind of spiritual guidance or counseling on you. That should be anchored in the church. That\u2019s why the church should be involved in what\u2019s going on with you. They should be working, as a team, with this therapist. But that therapist, at least, needs to be <em>affirming<\/em> that your faith is an important and valued part and that it\u2019s therapeutic for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And I would say that faith needs to be anchored in the church\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and also in the family. What parents are doing is not behavior modification with their kids; they\u2019re shaping a child\u2019s heart in response to God. Part of that is knowing how to repent of sin and ask forgiveness of another person that they\u2019ve hurt. Those are heart issues that we have to deal with in this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> But we still need help in the emotional arena, Bob. That\u2019s where a book like <em>Grace for the Afflicted <\/em>can be so helpful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And we\u2019ve got a link on our website, at FamilyLifeToday.com, to the Hope and Healing Center; so, if folks want to find out more about the work that you\u2019re doing, Matthew, they can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click through to find your work, there, in Houston. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe also, of course, have copies of your book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. The book is called <em>Grace for the Afflicted: A Clinical and Biblical Perspective on Mental Illness. <\/em>You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of the things I\u2019ve often heard from listeners, who\u2019ve been interacting about listening regularly to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>,is how often God meets them right where they are in a situation that is front-and-center for them. They didn\u2019t expect it; but they turn on the radio, and that\u2019s exactly what we\u2019re talking about that day. Of course, we can\u2019t orchestrate that; but God does orchestrate those kinds of things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur goal, here, is to provide practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families. In God\u2019s timing\u2014this radio program, or articles that we have online, or resources we make available\u2014God uses those to help strengthen families \/ to encourage families to give them hope in the middle of difficult seasons, and to provide them with practical help so that they know how to respond to the challenges of life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> is a non-profit organization. We depend on gifts from listeners, like you, to be able to continue the work that we do. Every time you mail in a donation, it goes to helping produce and syndicate this daily radio program\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014getting it out on a variety of audio platforms\u2014along with our website, our resources, and our events. All that we\u2019re doing, here, at FamilyLife, could not happen if it weren\u2019t for listeners, like you, who help make it happen. We\u2019re grateful for the partners we have, who make <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>possible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re a long-time listener, and you\u2019ve never made a donation, we\u2019d love to hear from you today. In fact, this time of year is a great time for regular listeners, who have never donated, to pitch in. This is a time when donations often are down, so it\u2019s a great encouragement when we hear from listeners during the summer months. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY to donate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, when you do go online, we\u2019ve got a downloadable four-week devotional series that addresses the subjects of communication, kindness, service, and gratitude. There are things to read together \/ activities that you can do as a family\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and it\u2019s a free download. Find out more about the <em>Growing<\/em> <em>Together<\/em> devotion series when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about a variety of subjects. One of them we want to talk about is anxiety. When people are experiencing high levels of anxiety, do they just need to believe Philippians 4, where it says, \u201cBe anxious for nothing\u201d or is that too simplistic? We\u2019ll talk more with Matthew Stanford about that tomorrow. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:29:05"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["26.63M"],"filesize_raw":["27924164"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-300281.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-300281.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Stanford, author of the book, \"Grace for the Afflicted,\" talks about the silent epidemic of depression that is sweeping across the U.S., affecting 45 million people, many of whom get no treatment.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-06-26.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When a family member or a loved one is dealing with some kind of physical ailment or disease\u2014that can put a stress or strain on family relationships. Matthew Stanford says, when the issue is a mental disorder or disease, the stress and strain can be excruciating for families.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> You know, so I have a client, right now, who has schizoaffective disorder, which is probably the worst of all mental illnesses. It\u2019s like having schizophrenia and bipolar disorder at the same time. Her moods swing between high, euphoric states and really low depression. She doesn\u2019t believe she\u2019s ill\u2014even though, in the same week she told me there was nothing wrong with her, she told me had wood nymphs living inside of her. Her parents struggle; because here they are\u2014they want to care for their daughter\u2014their daughter says she\u2019s not ill; we can\u2019t make her get any treatment. She lives in a delusional nightmare, and her parents suffer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, June 26<sup>th<\/sup>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. It may be that someone in your family is wrestling with a mental illness or mental disorder. How can people help and support you?\u2014and what can you do, as a parent, or as a spouse? We\u2019re going to talk more about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019ve touched on a tough issue this week and one that brings out a lot of concern and passion.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>We have. It\u2019s the whole subject of mental health, which involves issues of depression, anxiety, suicide\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014schizophrenia; there\u2019s bipolar disorder\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014addictions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014addictions; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I mean, on and on it goes. I was just making a statement, before we came on the air, to our guest, Dr. Matthew Stanford. By the way, Matthew, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Thanks for having me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I was just kind of preaching at him\u2014I was just going: \u201cYou know, the Christian community ought to be the leaders in this! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWe ought to be pointing people to a Savior, who compassionately wants to welcome people, who are struggling in the emotional realm.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And here\u2019s part of the issue that we struggle with, as Christians\u2014and by the way, we should say that Matthew has written a book called <em>Grace for the Afflicted: A Clinical and Biblical Perspective on Mental Illness.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And he is the CEO of The Hope and Healing Center and Institute in Houston, Texas. He\u2019s been married to Julie since 1990\u2014and have four children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And we should say\u2014the challenge for us, as Christians, is\u2014we look at behavior issues. Christianity identifies sin patterns in people\u2019s lives\u2014helps people with redemption for sin\/forgiveness but, also, sanctification, which is where your sin is dealt with. We look at some of these behavior disorders; and we go, \u201cThese are just extreme sin patterns in people\u2019s lives.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, we categorize it as that, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How can we tell if somebody is dealing with a mental health issue versus somebody who is just a stubborn, unrepentant sinner?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> You know, I look at Luke 2:52\u2014it says, \u201cJesus grew in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and man.\u201d I see that, kind of, as the four parts of our being: the mind, body, spirit, and relationships. When a person is struggling with a mental health problem, it affects them on all those levels. People with mental health problems\u2014they have the same spiritual needs as everyone else; those spiritual needs, wants, and desires may just be bent by their illness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe question being: \u201cWhen can we tell if somebody has kind of a spiritual problem versus a mental health problem?\u201d What I would say is this: \u201cA person, who has a spiritual problem\u2014when you begin to dissect that problem, there is some <em>sin<\/em> that is associated with it. The person has unrepentant sin, and that\u2019s why they have excessive guilt; and that\u2019s why they\u2019re sad or feel depressed; or why they\u2019re guilty and they have anxiety.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I typically find is that that level of sadness or depression\u2014that level of anxiety or stress\u2014does not usually rise to the level of a disorder that causes them to be <em>dysfunctional<\/em> in their ability to go to work \/ to go to school; it may start to affect their relationships. But, when you have clinical depression, you can\u2019t work normally; you can\u2019t hold normal relationships\u2014it affects every aspect of your being\u2014relationships, mind, body, spirit.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat you find with some of the spiritual issues is that that spiritual issue tends to be kind of focused in one area, and then it\u2019s just beginning to manifest at some level. The other thing I find is\u2014if someone has a clearly spiritual issue, that\u2019s just spiritual in nature\u2014when they begin to open up to receive spiritual guidance and care, you begin to see that begin to relieve itself; you then see recovery and restoration.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhereas a person who has, say for instance, bipolar disorder, who is being ministered to spiritually\u2014has been given pastoral care and may be even growing in their faith\u2014you don\u2019t necessarily see the symptoms of the bipolar disorder itself changing. You might see how the person perceives them changing or how they perceive themselves or God changing. They may <em>feel<\/em> better, but the symptoms themselves don\u2019t change; because the symptoms have more of a physical basis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And these can overlap; I mean, somebody can have a physical issue and have sin issues.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So we shouldn\u2019t just say, \u201cWell, it\u2019s all this,\u201d or \u201cIt\u2019s all that. Take some meds and that\u2019ll fix everything\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s one of our biggest problems right now. We have a tendency to go to the extremes in <em>every<\/em> aspect. You know, we have people in the secular world saying: \u201cOh, well, you just have this disorder. Take these pills, and you\u2019ll be fine.\u201d And we have people in some parts of Christendom \/ some parts of the church, saying: \u201cWell, this is solely spiritual. Just read through the Proverbs, and everything will be great.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBoth of those are equally <em>wrong<\/em>; because they\u2019re not receiving, accepting, or understanding how God made us as a multi-part unity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need to be, in essence, treated or intervened at <em>all<\/em> levels of our being. I think that\u2019s why the church has an incredible opportunity here, because the church really should be leading here. The church is the one who presents a holistic approach to the human \/ to the world. We\u2019re the ones that have the Book that tells us that, indeed, we are a multi-part being and that all aspects of our being are important to God. I mean, I can tell you\u2014as a mental health care provider, I have <em>never <\/em>had a client who just took medicine and everything was fine after that. You need more than that to have full recovery and healing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I would say the same thing about\u2014you know, a spiritual intervention is very important\u2014but unless it\u2019s a <em>solely<\/em> spiritual issue, you\u2019re not going to get full relief just from a spiritual intervention. That\u2019s not to deny that God doesn\u2019t intervene and miraculously heal at times. I think He absolutely does; and we should pray for healing for anyone who\u2019s ill in any way, but I think that we need to intervene completely in the person\u2019s life, much like we do with other things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe would do this with cancer; I mean, if a person has cancer, we know we want them to have a positive attitude; we know we want to be supporting them, spiritually; we know we want to support their family. Let\u2019s just do the same thing for mental health issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the church, I think what we have to do, first and foremost, is understand that these are real illnesses that have, at least, some biological basis\u2014depending on the illness that you\u2019re looking at\u2014and that there\u2019s going to need to be some biological aspect to the treatment, probably. I think, secondly, we have to understand that there\u2019s a difference between a mental illness and a counseling issue. Someone, who has a parenting problem or a marital issue\u2014where they can go to a counselor and have someone give them advice and guide them through that\u2014that is <em>different<\/em> than somebody who has bipolar disorder. That person may need some pastoral care also, but pastoral care alone is not going to be enough to alleviate the <em>symptoms<\/em> of that bipolar disorder.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Matthew, the number one most-prescribed medication in America today\u2014I don\u2019t know if this is worldwide, but in America\u2014is depression medication.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Right; absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That wasn\u2019t the case 40 years ago. Of course, part of that\u2019s because we didn\u2019t have depression medication 40 years ago. Do we have an epidemic of depression that wasn\u2019t around a generation ago, or are we just observing things we didn\u2019t observe before? Why is depression what it is today in our world?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> That\u2019s a great question! It requires kind of a nuanced answer, because the reality is\u2014we absolutely do have a silent epidemic of mental health problems in the world. Four hundred fifty million people in the world suffer from mental health care problems\u2014that would be the third-largest country in the world, if you put it together as a country. In the United States, in a given year\u201445 million individuals, which is an <em>enormous <\/em>number\u2014and that\u2019s just adults; it doesn\u2019t include children. A majority of those individuals receive <em>no<\/em> treatment. Even in the United States, they receive no treatment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, with that being said, anti-depressant medications are <em>heavily<\/em> over-prescribed in <em>ridiculous<\/em> amounts. I mean, it\u2019s unbelievable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe majority of people that receive psychiatric medications in the U.S. receive them from their general practitioner. If they really have clinical depression, then a round of an anti-depressant is an appropriate treatment. If they\u2019re sad\u2014because they have a bad marriage, or financial problems, or whatever, or something else\u2014anti-depressant is not an appropriate treatment to begin with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn top of that, they should also be receiving therapy; because therapy allows you to get the tools and skills necessary for you to be able to walk beyond the medication, hopefully. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRight now, the problem is\u2014we have a lot of overprescribing. Now, this isn\u2019t the first time this has ever happened. Back in the \u201880s, pediatricians were prescribing antibiotics like they were going out of style, and what that\u2019s left us with is a whole bunch of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. There have been some incredible studies done on those pediatricians\u2014that asked them, \u201cWhy would you prescribe an antibiotic for an ear infection you knew was viral?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s always the same answer: \u201c\u2026to appease the parent.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> So why would you <em>not<\/em> think that, when a person goes in to their general practitioner and says: \u201cI\u2019m sad,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m down,\u201d or \u201cI have anxiety and I\u2019m down,\u201d\u2014and anti-depressants are used to treat anxiety also\u2014why do you not think the same thing would happen?\u2014because people want to walk away with something. I think what we need to do is\u2014we need to be better consumers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s also another place where I think the church has a tremendous role to play. If your clergy and staff at your church\u2014if the leaders of your lay ministry at your church\u2014would simply take a short course, like a \u201cMental Health First Aid\u201d or a training to understand and recognize mental health care problems, we know people are more likely to go to clergy and ministry staff <em>before<\/em> they go to physicians and mental health care providers. That\u2019s something the National Institutes of Health found\u2014people in the general population, whether they\u2019re believers or not \/ whether they\u2019re affiliated with a faith community or not\u2014are more likely to go there <em>first<\/em> than to those other people we mentioned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf the church recognized those problems, they could get people to the proper care. They recognize, when someone had a problem, and they could move them into that type of care and pastor them along; or they could say, \u201cNo; this is something that we can handle for you right here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tUnfortunately, we\u2019re just not doing that. We kind of minimize it to say, \u201cYou know, it says, \u2018Be anxious for nothing,\u2019 so that means anxiety is bad. You shouldn\u2019t be anxious.\u201d Well, I mean, that\u2019s just a bad understanding of the Scriptures. You know, I had a pastor once tell me that depression was a sin; because it says, \u201cRejoice always.\u201d Sadly, I asked him, \u201cHave you read the rest of the Scriptures?\u201d because, I mean, unfortunately\u2014when people are fearful of something and they don\u2019t understand it\u2014they\u2019ll have a tendency to kind of wrap it up in some Scripture and try to, you know, put a little bow around it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese are chronic conditions\u2014they can be managed; they\u2019re not quick fixes. This is the epitome of what it means to be burden-bearers and to walk along with somebody and care for them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have to be much more grace-filled, I think, as a community.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Matthew, I want to go back to something that you ran past very quickly. I think there must be listeners, who are\u2014maybe they are taking drugs themselves\u2014or they\u2019re married or have a child, who is taking anti-depressants. You said it is good for a \u201cround\u201d of anti-depressants, perhaps, in certain cases. What\u2019s a \u201cround\u201d? What is a healthy period of time to take drugs for something like depression? I know you can\u2019t generalize an answer to everybody, but try. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Help us out here a little bit!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> \u201cI know you can\u2019t, but <em>do it<\/em>!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> First of all, the cop-out answer is, \u201cIt varies from person to person and depends on the severity of their illness.\u201d But I would say this to those people\u2014so you\u2019ve got people out there\u2014say, for instance, they are taking anti-depressants. Let\u2019s also put in people whose children are taking psycho-stimulants for ADHD, because they kind of fall under the same type of category; because a lot of those come from pediatricians. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are receiving anti-depressant medication for depression or anxiety, or your child is receiving a psycho-stimulant like Adderall<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> or something, and you\u2019re receiving that from a general physician\u2014a pediatrician or a general practitioner\u2014you need to keep taking that medication; but as soon as you can, get an appointment with a psychiatrist\u2014an adult psychiatrist or a child psychiatrist; because they need to evaluate whether you really, actually, have the <em>illness<\/em> that you\u2019re being treated for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the number one problem\u2014is that people are taking medication for illnesses they don\u2019t actually have. Number two\u2014if you\u2019re <em>psychiatrist<\/em> says, \u201cOkay; you do have depression, and we\u2019re going to put you on this medication,\u201d and you go\u2014the number one question you need to ask them is: \u201cHow are you going to assess whether I\u2019m getting better?\u201d because your <em>subjective<\/em> report of how you <em>feel<\/em> is really not good enough; because there is a placebo effect; you <em>want<\/em> to get better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I tell all of my clients, who I refer to psychiatrists that I work with is: \u201cIf you go three months and you see <em>no relief<\/em>\u2014no change in symptoms from medications\u2014you need to ask the psychiatrist: \u2018How have you been assessing me?\u2019 and \u2018How much longer do you want to try this medication before we say it hasn\u2019t been effective and we might try something else?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I see right now, unfortunately, is\u2014I see people, who\u2019ve been on a medication for a year or two\u2014have only seen their psychiatrist two or three times in all of those years\u2014and will tell me, flat-out, \u201cOh, I\u2019ve never gotten any better on this.\u201d When I say, \u201cWhy are you still taking it?\u201d they say, \u201cWell, that\u2019s what they told me to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> I tell them all of the time: \u201cIf you had an infection on your arm, and you went to your doctor and he gave you an antibiotic, and he said, \u2018This is going to clear up that infection,\u2019 and ten days went by and that was still there, you\u2019d be back in that office. So why would you not do the same thing with your depression?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou need to ask good questions. You also need to receive therapy\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014so for the depressive individual or for the anxious individual\u2014psychotherapy \/ a talking therapy\u2014not counseling\u2014but a targeted therapy, like cognitive behavior therapy\u2014something that\u2019s been demonstrated to effectively <em>treat<\/em> depression or anxiety. If you get that therapy, in addition to taking medication, research has shown that you will take less medication; and you will recover more fully and more quickly. The same thing for your children that are on psychostimulants\u2014if you will set up a behavior modification program, with a behavior mod specialist, you will see that, in many instances, they won\u2019t need medication anymore; or they will take less medication.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWithout therapy, all you\u2019re doing with medication is minimizing symptoms. You have <em>no<\/em> opportunity to move beyond that and really take care of what\u2019s underlying the problem. If you\u2019re going to\u2014you know, if you have a first episode depression\u2014you don\u2019t become suicidal \/ you\u2019re still mildly functional\u2014you know, you probably can take medication for six to eight months, along with some therapy. Within a year, you should either be on a very low dose of medicine or not on it anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You bring up therapy, and this is where we start to have some red flags go up: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWho do I put my soul in the hands of?\u201d and \u201cIs behavior modification the goal, or are we now starting to deal with spiritual issues?\u201d Help us understand that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Well, first, let\u2019s say this: psychostimulants are overprescribed. There are a lot kids on Adderall and things like that\u2014Ritalin<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014who don\u2019t need to be on them. We forget, as a society, that normal in childhood is a <em>huge <\/em>tent. We\u2019ve <em>narrowed<\/em> that down to just this: \u201cSit still, Johnny, and watch the opera. Why can\u2019t you sit still?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I can\u2019t do that! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Right; exactly! That\u2019s exactly right! And that\u2019s what we expect. You know, we\u2019ve increased our class sizes. Teachers have <em>way<\/em> too many kids in classrooms. They\u2019re dealing with a lot of behavior problems. It\u2019s a mess; okay? We don\u2019t allow our children to be children. The example I give a lot of times is this\u2014and I deal with this all of the time\u2014I am 52 years old. When I came out of kindergarten, there was no thought that I would know how to read; only that I would recognize some letters, shapes, and colors. Kindergarten was more <em>fun<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNowadays, when a child comes out of kindergarten, if they haven\u2019t reached certain reading milestones, they\u2019re actually labeled as \u201clearning disabled.\u201d Now, what changed? Did children change, or did expectations change? Our expectations have changed <em>dramatically<\/em>; and so, now, as soon as a child shows any kind of a behavior issue, or even one time, they want to put them on medication. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBehavior modification\u2014if a child really does have ADHD\u2014let\u2019s say that they really do have ADHD\u2014the issue right there is that they have not developed impulse control to the point where they can actually control their behavior at the age-appropriate level. What behavior modification does is\u2014it activates those areas of the brain to help their impulse control develop more fully. What you\u2019re <em>not<\/em> doing\u2014is you are not saying, \u201cI just want to change your behavior; I don\u2019t care about your heart,\u201d because Christian parents should be incorporating into that an understanding of the child\u2019s value and worth, within\u00a0 who they are in Christ, and God created them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, that\u2019s the thing that\u2019s missing, a lot of times, in a just kind of a secular approach; because, believe me, the child knows that everybody thinks he\u2019s not worth anything; because he\u2019s the one that always gets in trouble. Helping them understand: \u201cYou have this issue. It\u2019s a developmental issue; you will catch up. This is a short-term fix to help us right now. God has provided these types of things for us; it\u2019s His provision.\u201d That\u2019s an important thing. I think, as far as the question goes about therapy, I know a lot of Christians are very nervous about that and the idea of, \u201cIf I go to somebody, are they going to destroy my faith?\u201d\u2014or whatever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFirst off, I\u2019d say this\u2014if you go to an ethical, competent psychologist or therapist, they will not destroy your faith; that\u2019s <em>not <\/em>going to be their goal. I\u2019ve worked with <em>hundreds<\/em> of secular therapists and psychologists in my lifetime, and they\u2019ve been nothing but supportive of people of faith. What you want to find is a faith-affirming environment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, you ask questions of your mechanic. Why would you not ask questions of your therapist? You know, you\u2019ve got to find somebody you trust; somebody you agree with; somebody that believes they know how to treat your illness with empirically-validated treatment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd you need to ask them about your faith. If your faith is important to <em>you, <\/em>it should be important to them. Now, that\u2019s different than me saying that you need to go to somebody that is of your same faith\u2014or if you\u2019re Methodist, you have to go to a Methodist, or whatever. Some people\u2014if that\u2019s the only way that you would feel comfortable, great; that\u2019s fine. I don\u2019t have any problem with that, but that does limit the number of people you can find. It\u2019s already hard; there are already very limited mental health care providers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you <em>need<\/em> to talk to them about the fact that it\u2019s important for you to pray; it\u2019s important for you to talk about God in the context of your recovery, your healing, and your illness. If they are <em>not<\/em> comfortable with that, you don\u2019t go back to them; you go to someone else. In fact, if you\u2019re having trouble finding somebody, call the Hope and Healing Center. That\u2019s one of the things we do. I don\u2019t care where you are around the country\u2014just call us. We help people find care in their area. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, you can give us some criteria you want. I have people, all the time, say, \u201cWell, you know, I\u2019d rather go see a male therapist.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have more people say that to me than people who would say, \u201cWell, you know, I really want someone who would affirm my faith.\u201d That\u2019s just as important; because, if that\u2019s a core value that you hold\u2014is that God is present, and created you, and cares for you, and loves you\u2014that <em>has to be <\/em>some aspect of what you\u2019re doing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I\u2019m not saying that the person is doing some kind of spiritual guidance or counseling on you. That should be anchored in the church. That\u2019s why the church should be involved in what\u2019s going on with you. They should be working, as a team, with this therapist. But that therapist, at least, needs to be <em>affirming<\/em> that your faith is an important and valued part and that it\u2019s therapeutic for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And I would say that faith needs to be anchored in the church\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and also in the family. What parents are doing is not behavior modification with their kids; they\u2019re shaping a child\u2019s heart in response to God. Part of that is knowing how to repent of sin and ask forgiveness of another person that they\u2019ve hurt. Those are heart issues that we have to deal with in this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matthew:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> But we still need help in the emotional arena, Bob. That\u2019s where a book like <em>Grace for the Afflicted <\/em>can be so helpful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And we\u2019ve got a link on our website, at FamilyLifeToday.com, to the Hope and Healing Center; so, if folks want to find out more about the work that you\u2019re doing, Matthew, they can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click through to find your work, there, in Houston. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe also, of course, have copies of your book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. The book is called <em>Grace for the Afflicted: A Clinical and Biblical Perspective on Mental Illness. <\/em>You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, one of the things I\u2019ve often heard from listeners, who\u2019ve been interacting about listening regularly to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>,is how often God meets them right where they are in a situation that is front-and-center for them. They didn\u2019t expect it; but they turn on the radio, and that\u2019s exactly what we\u2019re talking about that day. Of course, we can\u2019t orchestrate that; but God does orchestrate those kinds of things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur goal, here, is to provide practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families. In God\u2019s timing\u2014this radio program, or articles that we have online, or resources we make available\u2014God uses those to help strengthen families \/ to encourage families to give them hope in the middle of difficult seasons, and to provide them with practical help so that they know how to respond to the challenges of life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> is a non-profit organization. We depend on gifts from listeners, like you, to be able to continue the work that we do. Every time you mail in a donation, it goes to helping produce and syndicate this daily radio program\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014getting it out on a variety of audio platforms\u2014along with our website, our resources, and our events. All that we\u2019re doing, here, at FamilyLife, could not happen if it weren\u2019t for listeners, like you, who help make it happen. We\u2019re grateful for the partners we have, who make <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>possible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re a long-time listener, and you\u2019ve never made a donation, we\u2019d love to hear from you today. In fact, this time of year is a great time for regular listeners, who have never donated, to pitch in. This is a time when donations often are down, so it\u2019s a great encouragement when we hear from listeners during the summer months. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY to donate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, when you do go online, we\u2019ve got a downloadable four-week devotional series that addresses the subjects of communication, kindness, service, and gratitude. There are things to read together \/ activities that you can do as a family\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and it\u2019s a free download. Find out more about the <em>Growing<\/em> <em>Together<\/em> devotion series when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about a variety of subjects. One of them we want to talk about is anxiety. When people are experiencing high levels of anxiety, do they just need to believe Philippians 4, where it says, \u201cBe anxious for nothing\u201d or is that too simplistic? We\u2019ll talk more with Matthew Stanford about that tomorrow. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. 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