{"id":300261,"date":"2018-06-12T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-06-12T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/jesus-and-our-sexuality\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:25","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:25","slug":"jesus-and-our-sexuality","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/jesus-and-our-sexuality\/","title":{"rendered":"Jesus and Our Sexuality"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>guest: Todd Wilson | Series: Mere Sexuality | Why did God make two genders rather than, say, seven? Pastor Todd Wilson, author of &#8220;Mere Sexuality,&#8221; points listeners back to Jesus to talk about sexuality. Wilson reminds us that Jesus came to earth as a male and will continue for all eternity as a male. Christians should celebrate being the male or female they were created to be and not bow to their desires to be someone they aren&#8217;t.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Pastor Todd Wilson points listeners back to Jesus to talk about sexuality. Wilson reminds us that Jesus came to earth as a male and will continue for all eternity as a male.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-06-12.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:25:23","filesize":"23.24M","filesize_raw":"24371742","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2896,2815],"tags":[4019,2976,4417,4415,4416],"podcast_series":[7221],"cwp_profile":[8835],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300261","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-lgbt","category-sexual-wholeness","tag-biblical-marriage","tag-christian-marriage","tag-creation","tag-creationism","tag-gender","podcast_series-mere-sexuality","cwp_profile-todd-wilson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300261\/jesus-and-our-sexuality","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300261\/jesus-and-our-sexuality","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"KeKYehwZTt\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/jesus-and-our-sexuality\/\">Jesus and Our Sexuality<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/jesus-and-our-sexuality\/embed\/#?secret=KeKYehwZTt\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Jesus and Our Sexuality&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"KeKYehwZTt\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-06-12.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-06-12.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>According to Pastor Todd Wilson, the current cultural conversation about gender and sexuality reflects something much deeper that\u2019s going on in our world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Our contemporary culture is becoming post-Christian. In becoming post-Christian, it\u2019s becoming Neo-Pagan. We are now getting into a cultural space and place that is like the first century Christians\u2014not just in the way we think about sexual ethics issues\u2014but creation itself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, June 12<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. How do we stand for truth in a way that is winsome and humble, while the world around us is moving further away from Christian convictions? We\u2019ll explore that today with Todd Wilson. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. So, if somebody asks you the question, \u201cWhy did God make two genders\/two sexes instead of seven?\u201d\u2014what would be your theological answer to that question? Do you have one?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, it\u2019s interesting you ask that; because Barbara and I have been working on that question, practically speaking, in our book, <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014helping parents know how to affirm biblical manhood\/biblical womanhood. As I\u2019ve studied it, Bob, I\u2019ve determined that God had a whole lot more taking place in this creative act than any of us understand; but He did make us different\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014male and female. It\u2019s clear, if you read the whole book in context\u2014men have had certain responsibilities and have behaved a certain way\u2014for good or for bad\u2014and women have as well. I think if\u2014well, we\u2019ll have to see if Barbara and I were able to achieve the objective of answering the question, but we tried. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have absolutely tried!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The book will be out soon too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It will be out soon, but a book that is already out is by Todd Wilson, who has written one called <em>Mere Sexuality: Rediscovering the Christian Vision of Sexuality. <\/em>Todd, welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> It\u2019s a privilege to be here with both of you today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is this a pomegranate on the front?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> It is a pomegranate. Does that work?\u2014is that sort of a good image?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that a Song of Solomon pomegranate?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> I think it is; yes! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; I was trying to figure out\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t come up with that myself, but\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I was trying to figure out why there\u2019s a pomegranate on it; and then I thought: \u201cOkay! I\u2019ve read about pomegranates in Song of Solomon.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> The good people at Zondervan came up with that, and I went with it. I liked it! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019re trying to tackle some very thorny subjects here around sexuality. One slice that you took at this, that I found particularly fascinating, was talking about the sexuality of Jesus Christ. Unpack that a bit\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014especially with His death and resurrection, because I thought that was really\u2014really, an interesting way to begin to think about this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; that is the first chapter in the book, once you get past the introduction. I started there, because I wanted to take people back to the person of Jesus as we begin thinking about sexuality. Surely there\u2019s something significant to the fact that, when God chose to come to earth, He came as a person: a fully enfleshed, embodied human being; that\u2019s significant\u2014that He was born of a virgin; surely that is significant for us\u2014that He lived a sexually chaste\/celibate life; that\u2019s significant, surely; right?\u2014that He never married!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of these things, I think, are hugely significant for us\u2014have implications for Christian living and Christian ethics, and the way we think about human sexuality\u2014but Jesus, as I put it in the book, is the missing person in sexuality conversations; by which I mean\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014not that we don\u2019t talk regularly about what Jesus <em>thought <\/em>about different issues or what He <em>taught <\/em>about different issues\u2014but we don\u2019t reflect on Who Jesus was and Who Jesus is\u2014that He is an enfleshed human being with a body. The incarnation is an embrace of human sexuality, right down to the core\u2014God\u2019s affirmation of the <em>goodness<\/em> of being male and female. We see it\u2014the <em>loudest<\/em> declaration of creation as good, and our bodies as good, and sexuality as good\u2014by God taking on human flesh in the person of Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, as we think about that, we don\u2019t stop to imagine\u2014because we know the story so [well], we don\u2019t imagine\u2014that the story of Jesus could have been: \u201cThey were wandering by the roadside, and there was a baby there,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014who just appeared; or that Jesus arrived as a fully-formed man, as the theophanies in the Old Testament\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014have Jesus arriving as an adult male.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> God chose to come, and to send His Son, in the language of human sexuality\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014both in how He was born and, then, in Who He was after He was born.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI guess Jesus could have been the daughter of God and have come as a female, but that was not God\u2019s design. Is there a reason why you think it is God sending a son and not a daughter?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s a good question; I don\u2019t get into that in the book. I haven\u2019t reflected all that deeply on that question. We were talking about this a little bit earlier. You know, I wonder if it has something to do with\u2014at the heart of masculinity is initiative. The essence of the incarnation is God\u2019s initiative into our sinful, fallen world for our salvation. It\u2019s appropriate and fitting, and in keeping with male and female, that God would come as a male.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And certainly, that\u2019s what Ephesians 5 tells us\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that Jesus is the bridegroom, and the church is the bride,\u2014He\u2019s the initiator; we\u2019re the receiver.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, had God sent His daughter\u2014if He\u2019d had a daughter\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014I don\u2019t want to sound like I\u2019m way out in the theological atmosphere. [Laughter] But if God had incarnated as a woman,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014it would have sent a different message.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> I think so, yes; I think so. Think of\u2014this is amazing\u2014I think this is amazing! God the Son\u2014the second person of the Trinity\u2014embraced human flesh, not just for 33 years, but the resurrection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> God, the second person of the Godhead, is continuing on, <em>for all eternity<\/em>, as a human being.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> That is <em>stunning<\/em>! We can find no more powerful affirmation of the goodness of what it means to be male and female\u2014and human beings\u2014than that, it seems to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And you know, that\u2019s one of the things I really appreciate about your book\u2014you brought back some holiness\u2014the goodness word that you just used\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014to human sexuality that our culture seems to be diminishing and degrading because of, honestly, twisting it \/ expanding the boundaries of it\u2014not recognizing the dignity that God created within it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought you did a great job, in the book, of calling the Christian to celebrate being a man\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014to celebrate being a woman, and discovering more of what that means.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. The issues surrounding sexuality in our culture are a subset of the larger issue of our culture\u2014Western culture, not just American\u2014Western culture\u2019s degrading of creation. If you have a negative view of creation, at the end of the day\u2014which is a pagan view \/ the pagans view embodiment and the material world negatively\u2014this is Plato\u2019s view and so on\u2014not a Christian view. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Christian view is God is the Creator. He\u2019s created this beautiful, good creation; so all of this materiality is something to be honored and respected as an expression of the beauty and the glory of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you have that negative view of creation, you\u2019re going to have a negative view of embodiment; and sexuality, ultimately, is going to be a play thing or a recreational activity; but it\u2019s not going to have the dignity that the Christian view has.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s been present in some aspects of church history. There were some of the church fathers who viewed sexual interests\/sexual desire as something to be avoided\u2014something that was only a part of our base nature\u2014and not something that God honored or glorified. That\u2019s one of the reasons for celibacy being a part of the priesthood.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And some wrote that the only time you should be intimate, as husband and wife, was if you were intentionally trying to conceive; at other times, it was completely off-limits. We\u2019ve been confused about this question throughout the millennia; haven\u2019t we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> We have been; we have been. Even the great Augustine was of this view. He wasn\u2019t sure that sexual activity and intimacy between a husband and a wife could ever rise above the level of concupiscence or lust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThankfully, Calvin and the reformers \/ Luther got this right, I think, biblically.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> And we are now all the beneficiaries of this! But the point is\u2014Augustine got that from his Neo-Platonic background, which is a pagan view of things, at the end of the day. Our contemporary culture is becoming post-Christian; and in becoming post-Christian, it\u2019s becoming Neo-Pagan. We are now getting into a cultural space and place that is like the first century Christians\u2014not just in the way we think about sexual ethics issues\u2014but creation itself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You were driving one of your teenage sons to an activity, and he demonstrated what you\u2019re talking about\u2014what it\u2019s like to be living in this post-Christian era. He asked you a question that I thought was really profound. I want to hear that question, but I also want to hear how you answered it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes. So this is my first-born, Ezra. I was taking him to youth group. Out of nowhere, he leans over to me and says, \u201cDad, why do people think that gender is socially constructed?\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWhat was the question?!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a pretty good question for a 16-year-old to ask!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Do you think he\u2019s a lot like you? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; I think so! [Laughter] But here\u2019s the interesting thing is\u2014he\u2019s picking all of this up in high school. I mean, these were not the conversations I was having in high school!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> This wasn\u2019t even on the radar screen! So that was the question. I took a deep gulp before I answered him, because I had to just think through what to say to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s the essence of it\u2014I said, \u201cGender, that is to say the things we think about like as what masculinity and femininity look like is\u201d\u2014I said\u2014\u201cEzra, is largely socially constructed.\u201d But I said, \u201cWhat isn\u2019t socially constructed, of course, are our <em>bodies<\/em>\u2014our biologically-sexed bodies. Gender and sex are, of course, connected; but they\u2019re not the same thing. In our culture, the confusion, I think, has arisen because we\u2019ve collapsed those two so that gender and sex are equated. So people will say, \u2018Gender is socially constructed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201c\u2019That\u2019s just a function of tradition, or habits, or ways of approaching this issue.\u2019 And then, they dismiss sex as being socially constructed as well. This is why we have the rise of the transgender movement, it seems to me:\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> \u2014 \u201c\u2019Is that being male\u2014not just liking blue, or playing sports, or whatever\u2014but having a male body\u2014this is a construction that you can change if you want to; it\u2019s not essential to your identity,\u2019\u2014that\u2019s the transgender movement, kind of, in a nutshell.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And isn\u2019t, tied up in that, the idea that: \u201cIf my desires are feminine and my body is masculine, God messed up my body,\u201d or \u201c\u2026biology messed up my body,\u201d\u2014depending on what your worldview is\u2014\u201cand therefore, I, as God, must alter what somebody messed up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; yes. That\u2019s right; that\u2019s right. One of the points I try to make in the book\u2014in the chapter on identity\u2014is: \u201cWhen we understand Genesis 1:27, that God has created us male and female, there is a call there to fidelity to our sexuality\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014\u201cto be faithful, as it were, to who God has called us to be.\u201d \u201cHow do you know what God has called you to be?\u201d\u2014well, your body!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cIt tells you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> \u201cIt tells you,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s right. That message is totally lost in our culture. One of the ways I put it in the book is that I think our fundamental vocation is to be faithful to that very thing, as a male or female.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve heard this\u2014this is the language I\u2019m reading today\u2014people who say\u2014if you\u2019ll pardon the expression: \u201cYour sex is between your legs.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cAnd your gender is between your ears.\u201d This is kind of the new paradigm that says: \u201cWho you are in gender is who you think you are \/ who you feel you are; and who you are in your sexuality is what biology, or God, made you to be. Now, you need to figure out how those two are going to mix and match, or whether they mix and match,\u201d\u2014what\u2019s wrong with that way of thinking?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting\u2014in the Christian tradition, there has always been a priority given to the objective reality of our bodies in God\u2019s created world; that we can rely upon that. There\u2019s always been a deep skepticism about our internal desires, because they\u2019re not actually all that reliable\u2014they\u2019re fluid; they\u2019re fickle. We can <em>so easily <\/em>deceive ourselves. So this is a Christian way of thinking: \u201cThis embodiment is reliable. What\u2019s going on inside of me is very fickle and fluid.\u201d In our culture, we\u2019ve completely reversed that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> \u2014where you might even say, Bob, it\u2019s <em>audacious<\/em>\u2014it is audacious\u2014that a 13-year-old person, who could have a season of same-sex-attracted experiences or feelings\u2014that they would make a determination about who they are on the basis of the fluidity and the fickleness of those fleeting experiences. That\u2019s a remarkable thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And that they would make a decision that could alter the rest of their lives!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It could render them unable to conceive or bear children\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014because they decided, at 13, in a season, \u201cI don\u2019t think this is who I am.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re seeing, today, people who\u2019ve made those decisions having deep regret about the decisions they\u2019ve made\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014but those stories don\u2019t get told as often in the culture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> No; no, they don\u2019t. I think there\u2019s an opportunity for Christian parents to be wise with this; because the reality is\u2014our experience, particularly in those teenage years, when hormones are flying around and all of the rest of it\u2014that is a fluid time that is a confusing time! No one will deny that! I think for Christians to affirm and embrace the fact that sexual experience\u2014there is some fluidity there, particularly in the teen years, when you\u2019re trying to figure all of this out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen our kids\u2014let\u2019s say my daughter will come home and say, \u201cYou know, Dad, I\u2019m having these feelings toward other girls,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014to have a kind of patience with that \/ to reaffirm God\u2019s perspective on that\u2014but to have a patience and just say, in effect, like: \u201cLive with those experiences. Don\u2019t construct your identity on the basis of that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And \u201cDon\u2019t act on it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> And \u201cDon\u2019t act on it,\u201d\u2014absolutely! \u201cDon\u2019t act on it, but don\u2019t define yourself on the basis of that like your friends at school will be doing.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And that seems to be the supreme value of this culture\u2014is: \u201cLet your feelings define you,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> \u201c\u2026define you,\u201d\u2014exactly! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cthat\u2019s reality\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cnot your physical well-being of who you were made to be by God.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right; that\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, when your kids come home from school and press back into you, as a parent, do you show panic? Do you show shock?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> I think we always do a little bit, because we care passionately about our kids when they\u2019re talking about these significant issues. There\u2019s always, probably, a little panic and a little shock, but I try not to\u2014I try not to. I try to work from a place of confidence in the Christian vision of things, and humility and patience, and trusting that God has them on a journey, and God\u2019s got them!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And be a safe person\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes! Be a safe person; exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014because you never know what they\u2019re going to come home and tell you that they\u2019ve done or that they\u2019ve made a mistake. And you want to be a parent who parents with love, and grace, and forgiveness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> They can always come home and invite you into their drama.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. We\u2019ve all probably had the experience, where we reveal something that is, perhaps even, shameful to someone, and you get the shock treatment back; you get more shame loaded on top of the shame you\u2019re already feeling.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> What do you do with that? You don\u2019t go back to talk to that person, probably, anytime soon!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you had a son or a daughter\u2014we\u2019ll say it\u2019s a biological boy\u2014who is artistic \/ wants to take dance lessons\u2014not interested in typically culturally-masculine things\u2014gentle\/relational\u2014all of the things that, culturally, we associate to be more feminine than masculine\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and this is your son; he\u2019s 14 years old and he says: \u201cI\u2019m lonely. The boys at school\u2014I don\u2019t fit in. The girls think I\u2019m weird; the boys think I\u2019m weird. I don\u2019t have any friends. It\u2019s depressing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cIt\u2019s made me wonder, \u2018Would I be better off if I transitioned?\u2014or if I just started to explore. Maybe I am gay.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you\u2019re having that conversation with a 14-year-old boy, and that\u2019s his life, what do you say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; well, I think you say: \u201cThat\u2019s got to be hard; isn\u2019t it? I\u2019m sorry that\u2019s your experience. That\u2019s hard!\u201d I would want to enter into the weightiness of that experience, and the pain and the reality of that\u2014and not minimize it \/ downplay it: \u201cOh, it will get better in ten years! Just hang in there. It\u2019s no big deal!\u201d Don\u2019t minimize the reality of the suffering.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think I would also want to affirm that: \u201cYou\u2019re not alone in that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWhile you might <em>feel<\/em> like you\u2019re really unique or marginalized in that sense, because of being different, there are other boys that are wired the way you are.\u201d That would be something else I would want to say\u2014I would also want to say: \u201cGod has created us male and female; but God has also created us with a variety of different personalities and psychological bents, if you will, one of which is a more empathetic, artistic wiring, which is not necessarily <em>not <\/em>masculine. To be masculine <em>in <\/em>your artistic wiring\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> I think that would be the thing that I would want to call my 14-year-old son to if that were the situation he were in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If I turned it around and said, \u201cNow, it\u2019s your 14-year-old daughter; and she says, \u2018I want to go out for the football team.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201c\u2019I\u2019ve always wanted to get out there. They\u2019ll let me do it at school. I just need a permission slip from you and mom!\u2019 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> \u201cWhat do I say?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Clearly, I haven\u2019t had that question! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He\u2019s squirming! He\u2019s squirming. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I understand that; I\u2019d be squirming too! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you know what? It\u2019s funny, because I asked the question\u2014and I\u2019ve seen the TV commercial, where dad is raising his daughter; and she winds up being the kicker on the football team\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and he\u2019s cheering her on. I look at that, and there\u2019s this warm, affirming, father-daughter relationship that you cheer for; and something in the back of your mind goes, \u201cWould I be cheering for my daughter as the kicker on the football team?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; I think I would want to try do a both\/and on that, Bob. I think I would want to say something like: \u201cSweetheart, why are you so excited about wanting to do that?\u2014and join the boys\u2019 football team?\u201d You know, I would just want to sort of hear her heart. If there was a valid, genuine, \u201cI just <em>love <\/em>football,\u201d and the school\u2019s letting her, I would want to be supportive of that; but I would also, at the same time, want to talk about biological realities\u2014that a woman is different than a man, and a 14-year-old girl is different than a 14 year-old boy\u2014football pads, and a helmet, and <em>crashing<\/em> into each other at full speed\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; and bone density and physical strength.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> All of this! There is nothing <em>wrong<\/em> with that; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, men, typically, are bigger\/stronger\u2014have more testosterone, of course, and so have more aggression, typically\u2014there are all of these biological realities that are going to come into play. I would want to have a conversation like that, just to talk about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I won\u2019t press you to see if you\u2019re going to sign the permission slip for that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I just want to go back to the beginning of the best-selling book in the history of mankind\u2014the Bible. It begins with a story of six days\u2014God created. He rested on the seventh day; but on the sixth day, He made man in His image\u2014male and female He made them. He says the words, \u201cmale and female,\u201d\u2014I think it\u2019s like half a dozen times in three or four verses. I mean, He makes the clear point that He made two <em>distinct<\/em> sexes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And throughout history, we have celebrated the birth of a child by asking a question\u2014that was before we had all of the sonograms and all of this\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we\u2019ve always asked the question: \u201cWhat is it?! What did you have?!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There weren\u2019t sixty different choices!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cBoy or girl?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI say: \u201cLet the Bible speak clearly. Take your kids to it; let them realize the authority of Scripture is speaking clearly today around a very chaotic situation that our children are living in. Help your children know how to think rightly, and how to believe rightly, and how to behave rightly. Sexuality is a huge part of that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> It\u2019s right at the heart of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And I\u2019d say: \u201cGet a copy of Todd\u2019s book, <em>Mere Sexuality<\/em>.\u201d I would encourage parents to read this; and then think about, maybe, a little read-aloud section or two?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes! Yes; I love that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014at the dinner table with your kids, and then talk about it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; at the very least, it will generate some interesting conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It certainly will! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That put fear in every parent!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You may not make it through a full chapter at dinner time\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but a few pages\u2014this would be a good conversation to have. We\u2019ve got copies of Todd\u2019s book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. You can order from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Again, the book is called <em>Mere Sexuality: Rediscovering the Christian Vision of Sexuality. <\/em>Call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy; or order online at FamilyLifeToday.com. The book, again: <em>Mere Sexuality <\/em>by Todd Wilson. Call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY; or order online at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, as we have these kinds of conversations, our goal is to help equip moms and dads, and husbands and wives, to think biblically about your relationship with one another \/ your family\u2014about issues that we\u2019re facing in our culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to help effectively develop godly marriages and families. We want to provide you with practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and your family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe appreciate those of you who partner with us so that the reach of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> can go further, and this message can be heard by more people. In fact, it\u2019s interesting to us\u2014the increase in the number of people who are listening to us online; the increase in the number who are downloading this program; listening to us as a podcast; and the increase in the number of listeners, worldwide\u2014you\u2019re helping to make all of that happen, and helping to influence marriages and families around the world, as you support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We\u2019re grateful for your partnership with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d love to send you, as a thank-you gift, a copy of Barbara Rainey\u2019s book, <em>Letters to My Daughters: Advice on Being a Wife and a Mom. <\/em>The book is our gift to you when you go online to donate to FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to make your donation, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can also mail your donation, along with your request for Barbara\u2019s book, to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to continue the dialogue with Todd Wilson, talking about issues that every family ought to be talking about, whether it\u2019s at the dinner table or wherever you have these kinds of conversations. We\u2019ll be back tomorrow. I hope you can be with us as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:25:23"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.24M"],"filesize_raw":["24371742"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-300261.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-300261.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776415230;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Pastor Todd Wilson points listeners back to Jesus to talk about sexuality. Wilson reminds us that Jesus came to earth as a male and will continue for all eternity as a male.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-06-12.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>According to Pastor Todd Wilson, the current cultural conversation about gender and sexuality reflects something much deeper that\u2019s going on in our world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Our contemporary culture is becoming post-Christian. In becoming post-Christian, it\u2019s becoming Neo-Pagan. We are now getting into a cultural space and place that is like the first century Christians\u2014not just in the way we think about sexual ethics issues\u2014but creation itself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, June 12<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. How do we stand for truth in a way that is winsome and humble, while the world around us is moving further away from Christian convictions? We\u2019ll explore that today with Todd Wilson. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. So, if somebody asks you the question, \u201cWhy did God make two genders\/two sexes instead of seven?\u201d\u2014what would be your theological answer to that question? Do you have one?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, it\u2019s interesting you ask that; because Barbara and I have been working on that question, practically speaking, in our book, <em>The Art of Parenting<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014helping parents know how to affirm biblical manhood\/biblical womanhood. As I\u2019ve studied it, Bob, I\u2019ve determined that God had a whole lot more taking place in this creative act than any of us understand; but He did make us different\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014male and female. It\u2019s clear, if you read the whole book in context\u2014men have had certain responsibilities and have behaved a certain way\u2014for good or for bad\u2014and women have as well. I think if\u2014well, we\u2019ll have to see if Barbara and I were able to achieve the objective of answering the question, but we tried. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have absolutely tried!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The book will be out soon too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It will be out soon, but a book that is already out is by Todd Wilson, who has written one called <em>Mere Sexuality: Rediscovering the Christian Vision of Sexuality. <\/em>Todd, welcome back to the broadcast.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> It\u2019s a privilege to be here with both of you today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is this a pomegranate on the front?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> It is a pomegranate. Does that work?\u2014is that sort of a good image?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that a Song of Solomon pomegranate?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> I think it is; yes! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; I was trying to figure out\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t come up with that myself, but\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I was trying to figure out why there\u2019s a pomegranate on it; and then I thought: \u201cOkay! I\u2019ve read about pomegranates in Song of Solomon.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> The good people at Zondervan came up with that, and I went with it. I liked it! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019re trying to tackle some very thorny subjects here around sexuality. One slice that you took at this, that I found particularly fascinating, was talking about the sexuality of Jesus Christ. Unpack that a bit\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014especially with His death and resurrection, because I thought that was really\u2014really, an interesting way to begin to think about this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; that is the first chapter in the book, once you get past the introduction. I started there, because I wanted to take people back to the person of Jesus as we begin thinking about sexuality. Surely there\u2019s something significant to the fact that, when God chose to come to earth, He came as a person: a fully enfleshed, embodied human being; that\u2019s significant\u2014that He was born of a virgin; surely that is significant for us\u2014that He lived a sexually chaste\/celibate life; that\u2019s significant, surely; right?\u2014that He never married!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of these things, I think, are hugely significant for us\u2014have implications for Christian living and Christian ethics, and the way we think about human sexuality\u2014but Jesus, as I put it in the book, is the missing person in sexuality conversations; by which I mean\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014not that we don\u2019t talk regularly about what Jesus <em>thought <\/em>about different issues or what He <em>taught <\/em>about different issues\u2014but we don\u2019t reflect on Who Jesus was and Who Jesus is\u2014that He is an enfleshed human being with a body. The incarnation is an embrace of human sexuality, right down to the core\u2014God\u2019s affirmation of the <em>goodness<\/em> of being male and female. We see it\u2014the <em>loudest<\/em> declaration of creation as good, and our bodies as good, and sexuality as good\u2014by God taking on human flesh in the person of Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, as we think about that, we don\u2019t stop to imagine\u2014because we know the story so [well], we don\u2019t imagine\u2014that the story of Jesus could have been: \u201cThey were wandering by the roadside, and there was a baby there,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014who just appeared; or that Jesus arrived as a fully-formed man, as the theophanies in the Old Testament\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014have Jesus arriving as an adult male.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> God chose to come, and to send His Son, in the language of human sexuality\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014both in how He was born and, then, in Who He was after He was born.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI guess Jesus could have been the daughter of God and have come as a female, but that was not God\u2019s design. Is there a reason why you think it is God sending a son and not a daughter?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s a good question; I don\u2019t get into that in the book. I haven\u2019t reflected all that deeply on that question. We were talking about this a little bit earlier. You know, I wonder if it has something to do with\u2014at the heart of masculinity is initiative. The essence of the incarnation is God\u2019s initiative into our sinful, fallen world for our salvation. It\u2019s appropriate and fitting, and in keeping with male and female, that God would come as a male.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And certainly, that\u2019s what Ephesians 5 tells us\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that Jesus is the bridegroom, and the church is the bride,\u2014He\u2019s the initiator; we\u2019re the receiver.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, had God sent His daughter\u2014if He\u2019d had a daughter\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014I don\u2019t want to sound like I\u2019m way out in the theological atmosphere. [Laughter] But if God had incarnated as a woman,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014it would have sent a different message.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> I think so, yes; I think so. Think of\u2014this is amazing\u2014I think this is amazing! God the Son\u2014the second person of the Trinity\u2014embraced human flesh, not just for 33 years, but the resurrection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> God, the second person of the Godhead, is continuing on, <em>for all eternity<\/em>, as a human being.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> That is <em>stunning<\/em>! We can find no more powerful affirmation of the goodness of what it means to be male and female\u2014and human beings\u2014than that, it seems to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And you know, that\u2019s one of the things I really appreciate about your book\u2014you brought back some holiness\u2014the goodness word that you just used\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014to human sexuality that our culture seems to be diminishing and degrading because of, honestly, twisting it \/ expanding the boundaries of it\u2014not recognizing the dignity that God created within it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought you did a great job, in the book, of calling the Christian to celebrate being a man\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014to celebrate being a woman, and discovering more of what that means.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. The issues surrounding sexuality in our culture are a subset of the larger issue of our culture\u2014Western culture, not just American\u2014Western culture\u2019s degrading of creation. If you have a negative view of creation, at the end of the day\u2014which is a pagan view \/ the pagans view embodiment and the material world negatively\u2014this is Plato\u2019s view and so on\u2014not a Christian view. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Christian view is God is the Creator. He\u2019s created this beautiful, good creation; so all of this materiality is something to be honored and respected as an expression of the beauty and the glory of God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you have that negative view of creation, you\u2019re going to have a negative view of embodiment; and sexuality, ultimately, is going to be a play thing or a recreational activity; but it\u2019s not going to have the dignity that the Christian view has.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s been present in some aspects of church history. There were some of the church fathers who viewed sexual interests\/sexual desire as something to be avoided\u2014something that was only a part of our base nature\u2014and not something that God honored or glorified. That\u2019s one of the reasons for celibacy being a part of the priesthood.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And some wrote that the only time you should be intimate, as husband and wife, was if you were intentionally trying to conceive; at other times, it was completely off-limits. We\u2019ve been confused about this question throughout the millennia; haven\u2019t we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> We have been; we have been. Even the great Augustine was of this view. He wasn\u2019t sure that sexual activity and intimacy between a husband and a wife could ever rise above the level of concupiscence or lust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThankfully, Calvin and the reformers \/ Luther got this right, I think, biblically.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> And we are now all the beneficiaries of this! But the point is\u2014Augustine got that from his Neo-Platonic background, which is a pagan view of things, at the end of the day. Our contemporary culture is becoming post-Christian; and in becoming post-Christian, it\u2019s becoming Neo-Pagan. We are now getting into a cultural space and place that is like the first century Christians\u2014not just in the way we think about sexual ethics issues\u2014but creation itself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You were driving one of your teenage sons to an activity, and he demonstrated what you\u2019re talking about\u2014what it\u2019s like to be living in this post-Christian era. He asked you a question that I thought was really profound. I want to hear that question, but I also want to hear how you answered it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes. So this is my first-born, Ezra. I was taking him to youth group. Out of nowhere, he leans over to me and says, \u201cDad, why do people think that gender is socially constructed?\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWhat was the question?!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a pretty good question for a 16-year-old to ask!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Do you think he\u2019s a lot like you? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; I think so! [Laughter] But here\u2019s the interesting thing is\u2014he\u2019s picking all of this up in high school. I mean, these were not the conversations I was having in high school!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> This wasn\u2019t even on the radar screen! So that was the question. I took a deep gulp before I answered him, because I had to just think through what to say to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s the essence of it\u2014I said, \u201cGender, that is to say the things we think about like as what masculinity and femininity look like is\u201d\u2014I said\u2014\u201cEzra, is largely socially constructed.\u201d But I said, \u201cWhat isn\u2019t socially constructed, of course, are our <em>bodies<\/em>\u2014our biologically-sexed bodies. Gender and sex are, of course, connected; but they\u2019re not the same thing. In our culture, the confusion, I think, has arisen because we\u2019ve collapsed those two so that gender and sex are equated. So people will say, \u2018Gender is socially constructed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201c\u2019That\u2019s just a function of tradition, or habits, or ways of approaching this issue.\u2019 And then, they dismiss sex as being socially constructed as well. This is why we have the rise of the transgender movement, it seems to me:\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> \u2014 \u201c\u2019Is that being male\u2014not just liking blue, or playing sports, or whatever\u2014but having a male body\u2014this is a construction that you can change if you want to; it\u2019s not essential to your identity,\u2019\u2014that\u2019s the transgender movement, kind of, in a nutshell.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And isn\u2019t, tied up in that, the idea that: \u201cIf my desires are feminine and my body is masculine, God messed up my body,\u201d or \u201c\u2026biology messed up my body,\u201d\u2014depending on what your worldview is\u2014\u201cand therefore, I, as God, must alter what somebody messed up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; yes. That\u2019s right; that\u2019s right. One of the points I try to make in the book\u2014in the chapter on identity\u2014is: \u201cWhen we understand Genesis 1:27, that God has created us male and female, there is a call there to fidelity to our sexuality\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014\u201cto be faithful, as it were, to who God has called us to be.\u201d \u201cHow do you know what God has called you to be?\u201d\u2014well, your body!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cIt tells you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> \u201cIt tells you,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s right. That message is totally lost in our culture. One of the ways I put it in the book is that I think our fundamental vocation is to be faithful to that very thing, as a male or female.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve heard this\u2014this is the language I\u2019m reading today\u2014people who say\u2014if you\u2019ll pardon the expression: \u201cYour sex is between your legs.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cAnd your gender is between your ears.\u201d This is kind of the new paradigm that says: \u201cWho you are in gender is who you think you are \/ who you feel you are; and who you are in your sexuality is what biology, or God, made you to be. Now, you need to figure out how those two are going to mix and match, or whether they mix and match,\u201d\u2014what\u2019s wrong with that way of thinking?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting\u2014in the Christian tradition, there has always been a priority given to the objective reality of our bodies in God\u2019s created world; that we can rely upon that. There\u2019s always been a deep skepticism about our internal desires, because they\u2019re not actually all that reliable\u2014they\u2019re fluid; they\u2019re fickle. We can <em>so easily <\/em>deceive ourselves. So this is a Christian way of thinking: \u201cThis embodiment is reliable. What\u2019s going on inside of me is very fickle and fluid.\u201d In our culture, we\u2019ve completely reversed that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> \u2014where you might even say, Bob, it\u2019s <em>audacious<\/em>\u2014it is audacious\u2014that a 13-year-old person, who could have a season of same-sex-attracted experiences or feelings\u2014that they would make a determination about who they are on the basis of the fluidity and the fickleness of those fleeting experiences. That\u2019s a remarkable thing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And that they would make a decision that could alter the rest of their lives!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It could render them unable to conceive or bear children\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014because they decided, at 13, in a season, \u201cI don\u2019t think this is who I am.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re seeing, today, people who\u2019ve made those decisions having deep regret about the decisions they\u2019ve made\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014but those stories don\u2019t get told as often in the culture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> No; no, they don\u2019t. I think there\u2019s an opportunity for Christian parents to be wise with this; because the reality is\u2014our experience, particularly in those teenage years, when hormones are flying around and all of the rest of it\u2014that is a fluid time that is a confusing time! No one will deny that! I think for Christians to affirm and embrace the fact that sexual experience\u2014there is some fluidity there, particularly in the teen years, when you\u2019re trying to figure all of this out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen our kids\u2014let\u2019s say my daughter will come home and say, \u201cYou know, Dad, I\u2019m having these feelings toward other girls,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014to have a kind of patience with that \/ to reaffirm God\u2019s perspective on that\u2014but to have a patience and just say, in effect, like: \u201cLive with those experiences. Don\u2019t construct your identity on the basis of that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And \u201cDon\u2019t act on it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> And \u201cDon\u2019t act on it,\u201d\u2014absolutely! \u201cDon\u2019t act on it, but don\u2019t define yourself on the basis of that like your friends at school will be doing.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And that seems to be the supreme value of this culture\u2014is: \u201cLet your feelings define you,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> \u201c\u2026define you,\u201d\u2014exactly! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cthat\u2019s reality\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cnot your physical well-being of who you were made to be by God.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right; that\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So, when your kids come home from school and press back into you, as a parent, do you show panic? Do you show shock?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> I think we always do a little bit, because we care passionately about our kids when they\u2019re talking about these significant issues. There\u2019s always, probably, a little panic and a little shock, but I try not to\u2014I try not to. I try to work from a place of confidence in the Christian vision of things, and humility and patience, and trusting that God has them on a journey, and God\u2019s got them!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And be a safe person\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes! Be a safe person; exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014because you never know what they\u2019re going to come home and tell you that they\u2019ve done or that they\u2019ve made a mistake. And you want to be a parent who parents with love, and grace, and forgiveness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> They can always come home and invite you into their drama.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. We\u2019ve all probably had the experience, where we reveal something that is, perhaps even, shameful to someone, and you get the shock treatment back; you get more shame loaded on top of the shame you\u2019re already feeling.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> What do you do with that? You don\u2019t go back to talk to that person, probably, anytime soon!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you had a son or a daughter\u2014we\u2019ll say it\u2019s a biological boy\u2014who is artistic \/ wants to take dance lessons\u2014not interested in typically culturally-masculine things\u2014gentle\/relational\u2014all of the things that, culturally, we associate to be more feminine than masculine\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014and this is your son; he\u2019s 14 years old and he says: \u201cI\u2019m lonely. The boys at school\u2014I don\u2019t fit in. The girls think I\u2019m weird; the boys think I\u2019m weird. I don\u2019t have any friends. It\u2019s depressing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cIt\u2019s made me wonder, \u2018Would I be better off if I transitioned?\u2014or if I just started to explore. Maybe I am gay.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you\u2019re having that conversation with a 14-year-old boy, and that\u2019s his life, what do you say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; well, I think you say: \u201cThat\u2019s got to be hard; isn\u2019t it? I\u2019m sorry that\u2019s your experience. That\u2019s hard!\u201d I would want to enter into the weightiness of that experience, and the pain and the reality of that\u2014and not minimize it \/ downplay it: \u201cOh, it will get better in ten years! Just hang in there. It\u2019s no big deal!\u201d Don\u2019t minimize the reality of the suffering.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think I would also want to affirm that: \u201cYou\u2019re not alone in that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWhile you might <em>feel<\/em> like you\u2019re really unique or marginalized in that sense, because of being different, there are other boys that are wired the way you are.\u201d That would be something else I would want to say\u2014I would also want to say: \u201cGod has created us male and female; but God has also created us with a variety of different personalities and psychological bents, if you will, one of which is a more empathetic, artistic wiring, which is not necessarily <em>not <\/em>masculine. To be masculine <em>in <\/em>your artistic wiring\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> I think that would be the thing that I would want to call my 14-year-old son to if that were the situation he were in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If I turned it around and said, \u201cNow, it\u2019s your 14-year-old daughter; and she says, \u2018I want to go out for the football team.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201c\u2019I\u2019ve always wanted to get out there. They\u2019ll let me do it at school. I just need a permission slip from you and mom!\u2019 [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> \u201cWhat do I say?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Clearly, I haven\u2019t had that question! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> He\u2019s squirming! He\u2019s squirming. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I understand that; I\u2019d be squirming too! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you know what? It\u2019s funny, because I asked the question\u2014and I\u2019ve seen the TV commercial, where dad is raising his daughter; and she winds up being the kicker on the football team\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and he\u2019s cheering her on. I look at that, and there\u2019s this warm, affirming, father-daughter relationship that you cheer for; and something in the back of your mind goes, \u201cWould I be cheering for my daughter as the kicker on the football team?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; I think I would want to try do a both\/and on that, Bob. I think I would want to say something like: \u201cSweetheart, why are you so excited about wanting to do that?\u2014and join the boys\u2019 football team?\u201d You know, I would just want to sort of hear her heart. If there was a valid, genuine, \u201cI just <em>love <\/em>football,\u201d and the school\u2019s letting her, I would want to be supportive of that; but I would also, at the same time, want to talk about biological realities\u2014that a woman is different than a man, and a 14-year-old girl is different than a 14 year-old boy\u2014football pads, and a helmet, and <em>crashing<\/em> into each other at full speed\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; and bone density and physical strength.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> All of this! There is nothing <em>wrong<\/em> with that; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, men, typically, are bigger\/stronger\u2014have more testosterone, of course, and so have more aggression, typically\u2014there are all of these biological realities that are going to come into play. I would want to have a conversation like that, just to talk about it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I won\u2019t press you to see if you\u2019re going to sign the permission slip for that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I just want to go back to the beginning of the best-selling book in the history of mankind\u2014the Bible. It begins with a story of six days\u2014God created. He rested on the seventh day; but on the sixth day, He made man in His image\u2014male and female He made them. He says the words, \u201cmale and female,\u201d\u2014I think it\u2019s like half a dozen times in three or four verses. I mean, He makes the clear point that He made two <em>distinct<\/em> sexes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And throughout history, we have celebrated the birth of a child by asking a question\u2014that was before we had all of the sonograms and all of this\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we\u2019ve always asked the question: \u201cWhat is it?! What did you have?!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There weren\u2019t sixty different choices!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cBoy or girl?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI say: \u201cLet the Bible speak clearly. Take your kids to it; let them realize the authority of Scripture is speaking clearly today around a very chaotic situation that our children are living in. Help your children know how to think rightly, and how to believe rightly, and how to behave rightly. Sexuality is a huge part of that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> It\u2019s right at the heart of it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> And I\u2019d say: \u201cGet a copy of Todd\u2019s book, <em>Mere Sexuality<\/em>.\u201d I would encourage parents to read this; and then think about, maybe, a little read-aloud section or two?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes! Yes; I love that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014at the dinner table with your kids, and then talk about it!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Todd:<\/strong> Yes; at the very least, it will generate some interesting conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It certainly will! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> That put fear in every parent!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You may not make it through a full chapter at dinner time\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but a few pages\u2014this would be a good conversation to have. We\u2019ve got copies of Todd\u2019s book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. You can order from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. Again, the book is called <em>Mere Sexuality: Rediscovering the Christian Vision of Sexuality. <\/em>Call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy; or order online at FamilyLifeToday.com. The book, again: <em>Mere Sexuality <\/em>by Todd Wilson. Call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY; or order online at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, as we have these kinds of conversations, our goal is to help equip moms and dads, and husbands and wives, to think biblically about your relationship with one another \/ your family\u2014about issues that we\u2019re facing in our culture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to help effectively develop godly marriages and families. We want to provide you with practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and your family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe appreciate those of you who partner with us so that the reach of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> can go further, and this message can be heard by more people. In fact, it\u2019s interesting to us\u2014the increase in the number of people who are listening to us online; the increase in the number who are downloading this program; listening to us as a podcast; and the increase in the number of listeners, worldwide\u2014you\u2019re helping to make all of that happen, and helping to influence marriages and families around the world, as you support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We\u2019re grateful for your partnership with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d love to send you, as a thank-you gift, a copy of Barbara Rainey\u2019s book, <em>Letters to My Daughters: Advice on Being a Wife and a Mom. <\/em>The book is our gift to you when you go online to donate to FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to make your donation, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can also mail your donation, along with your request for Barbara\u2019s book, to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to continue the dialogue with Todd Wilson, talking about issues that every family ought to be talking about, whether it\u2019s at the dinner table or wherever you have these kinds of conversations. We\u2019ll be back tomorrow. I hope you can be with us as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\tHelp for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300261","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300261"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300261"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300261"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300261"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300261"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300261"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300261"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}