{"id":300233,"date":"2018-05-09T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-05-09T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-path-back-from-an-affair\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:24","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:24","slug":"the-path-back-from-an-affair","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-path-back-from-an-affair\/","title":{"rendered":"The Path Back From an Affair"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Nancy Houston encourages those involved in marital infidelity due to porn or a sexual affair, that healing is possible if you&#8217;re willing to do the hard work.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-05-09.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:12","filesize":"24.91M","filesize_raw":"26121374","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2908,2903,2844,2088],"tags":[4377,4379,4380,4378,2989,2991,4372],"podcast_series":[7212],"cwp_profile":[3384],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300233","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-forgiveness","category-infidelity","category-pornography","category-romance-and-sex","tag-affair","tag-betrayal","tag-feeling-betrayed","tag-healing-after-an-affair","tag-pornography","tag-sex","tag-sex-therapist","podcast_series-love-and-sex","cwp_profile-nancy-houston","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300233\/the-path-back-from-an-affair","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300233\/the-path-back-from-an-affair","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"0p8GRh00pz\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-path-back-from-an-affair\/\">The Path Back From an Affair<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-path-back-from-an-affair\/embed\/#?secret=0p8GRh00pz\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Path Back From an Affair&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"0p8GRh00pz\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-05-09.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-05-09.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The news of an extramarital affair can send shockwaves through a marriage. Nancy Houston says, for the spouse who learns of the affair, their world is rocked.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>We have to realize that the other spouse is going to have trauma brain. They are going to be traumatized by this news. They are going to feel like: \u201cI thought we had a pretty good marriage,\u201d and \u201cDo I even know this person I\u2019m married to? Will I ever trust this person again? Was our marriage a total sham?\u201d You know, we have to remember to not throw the baby out with the bath water\u2014but to know that hope and healing is possible\u2014but it\u2019s going to be a journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, May 9<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. How does a couple rebuild a marriage after there\u2019s been an affair? We\u2019ll talk with Nancy Houston about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. There are some couples, who are listening to us today, who have\u2014they\u2019ve experienced an explosion going off in their marriage, where at one moment they thought everything was fine, and a minute later, it\u2019s like ruins have come\u2014and that\u2019s when a husband or wife confesses to infidelity in a marriage relationship. Those moments are pivotal moments in terms of what that relationship is going to be, going forward.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; and this book\u2014the bestselling Book in history\u2014and our listener\u2019s thought I was going to introduce our guest right now. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and her book? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019m introducing God to the audience\u2014it\u2019s the Bible. This book has, from cover to cover, a story of broken people finding redemption.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to talk about that today with Nancy Houston, the author of a new book called <em>Love and Sex<\/em>. Nancy, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It\u2019s been a privilege to have you with us talking about how pornography \/ how affairs are impacting\u2014not just our culture\u2014but the Christian community \/ the local church. You, for a number of years, led groups in the local church to help couples recover from pornography addictions \/ extramarital affairs. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet\u2019s go to what was Bob talking about: \u201cWhere should a couple go and how should they find healing in the area of their spouse having an extramarital affair?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Thankfully, there are some good resources for help. I think, first, we have to realize that, when there\u2019s been disclosure that somebody in the marriage has had an affair or somebody in the marriage has been receiving their sexual gratification from pornography\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we have to realize that the other spouse is going to have trauma brain. They are going to be traumatized by this news. They are going to feel like: \u201cI thought we had a pretty good marriage,\u201d and \u201cDo I even know this person I\u2019m married to? Will I ever trust this person again? Was our marriage just a total sham?\u201d You know, we have to remember not to throw the baby out with the bath water\u2014but to know that hope and healing is possible\u2014but it\u2019s going to be a journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhoever had the affair or has been doing pornography, they are going to have to be ready to, really humbly\u2014you know, have a humble heart, first of all\u2014you know, like: \u201cI\u2019ve done the wrong thing. I\u2019ve really hurt you by this.\u201d Then, be willing to hear the other person\u2019s anger, their disappointment, maybe their disgust. They are going to want to ask questions; they are going to want to know information. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI always say to that spouse, who has been cheated on: \u201cMake sure you think, at least, for 24 hours before you start asking your spouse questions. I think you do need answers; but remember\u2014those answers will stay in your head; you may replay them in your head for a very, very long time. So be discreet about what you\u2019re asking the spouse\u2014what kind of information,\u201d\u2014you know, sometimes, they want details. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Oftentimes, you\u2019re going to need details; but really specific details aren\u2019t going to be very helpful\u2014they\u2019re just going to be more hurtful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Why do people need details? What are they looking for when they start asking these questions: \u201cHow many times has it been?\u201d and \u201cWhere did it happen?\u201d\u2014what are they trying to get to there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> I think\u2014one thing\u2014their brain is in trauma. The left logical brain helps the right emotional brain. The left logical brain is looking for facts, reasons, and logic\u2014like: \u201cWhat happened?\u201d \u201cWhere did you do that?\u201d \u201cHow many times did that happen?\u201d \u201cWhy did you do that?\u201d \u201cHow long have you been looking at porn?\u201d \u201cWhen did this start?\u201d \u201cHow many times have you cheated on me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the left brain trying to make sense of <em>all<\/em> these emotions, because there\u2019s going to be every emotion. It\u2019s like\u2014if we put your brain on a rug and pulled the rug out\u2014and so your brain is going to be spinning and spiraling. Both of you are going to need help to heal and recover. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve worked with couples, where, \u201cYou know, we\u2019re just not doing great.\u201d \u201cTell me your history together.\u201d \u201cWell, she had an affair 20 years ago and like we got over it.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo; you didn\u2019t,\u201d or you know, \u201cHe had an affair 10 years ago, but that\u2019s not our problem.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cIt might be. Did you really grieve deeply and profoundly?\u201d\u2014because grief work recalibrates us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, in the world we live in, we just want to get over things\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you know, it\u2019s like: \u201cI forgive you. You know, it is fine. We\u2019ll just move on,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m done with you, and I\u2019m going to move on. I\u2019ll just cruise separately from you.\u201d We forget that there\u2019s a lot of grief work to do when there has been something traumatic happen in the marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Nancy, the person who is confessing, they can experience an emotion called <em>relief<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014that their sin they\u2019ve been hiding is now out in the open. They don\u2019t realize they have just dumped a dump truck. Like Bob described\u2014it\u2019s an atomic bomb that\u2019s gone off in the other person\u2019s life. They\u2019re [confessor\u2019s] feeling relief; the other person is feeling the betrayal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>Oh! They are devastated!\u2014absolutely; you are so right. I\u2019m so glad you said that, Dennis; because you\u2019ve been keeping these secrets for years and, suddenly, it\u2019s like: \u201cWhew! I\u2019ve got that off my chest. I feel so much better! What\u2019s wrong with you, honey? Why can\u2019t you get over it?\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201c<em>You<\/em> have altered my entire world.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Part of that altering of your world is: \u201cWhere I thought I was safe, I no longer feel safe; where I thought I was valued, I no longer feel valued; where I thought I was protected, I don\u2019t feel protected.\u201d You need to get in and understand what the impact of unfaithfulness has been. It\u2019s not just \u201cI had sex with somebody else,\u201d but \u201cI took what I had promised, and I violated every part of that promise so that now what you thought you could depend on, the ground has shifted.\u201d You\u2019re weightless; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s like in 1Corinthians 6\u2014the Apostle Paul says sex is way more than skin on skin; it\u2019s a spiritual mystery. It is, because it is something that goes deep into our souls. If we really understood that\u2014you know, we live in a world that treats sex so casually\u2014but there is <em>nothing<\/em>, <em>nothing<\/em> casual about sex at all. It is profound; it is deep; it is life-altering. I think we need to think way more deeply about this topic. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGetting back to the road to recovery for any of these couples\u2014whether it\u2019s something like, \u201cI hate sex, and I don\u2019t want to have sex,\u201d or \u201cMy spouse has had an affair,\u201d or \u201cMy spouse is looking at porn,\u201d or \u201cMy spouse is flirting with somebody else,\u201d\u2014you know, it\u2019s good to know that there <em>is<\/em> a healing pathway, but it is going to be a healing journey. It\u2019s not going to happen overnight. It\u2019s going to require a lot of being humble with each other\u2014of talking things through\u2014of: \u201cWhat\u2019s gone wrong, here, in our marriage?\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s gone wrong in our sexual lives together?\u201d \u201cWhat baggage did you bring in?\u201d \u201cWhat baggage did I bring in?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA lot of times, I hear wives say, \u201cI hate sex!\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cOkay; well, there is a reason you hate sex. Let\u2019s call a time out on sex, and let\u2019s kind of figure out why is it broken\u2014what happened.\u201d Sometimes, she\u2019ll have some sexual baggage from her growing up years. Sometimes, he is looking at a lot of porn and acting it out on her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had a woman, the other day, tell me, \u201cMy husband and I have sex frequently; but if I won\u2019t have sex with him, then he\u2019ll just go look at porn and take care of himself,\u201d and \u201cHe goes to strip clubs.\u201d She said: \u201cI still have sex with him, but I never look him in the face. I have to turn my face away from him.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, sex was made to be, eye to eye \/ person to person; you know? It wasn\u2019t meant to be this removed experience. I\u2019m like: \u201cYou know, that really hurts my heart for you\u2014that that\u2019s how sex is for you. I would encourage you guys, \u2018Call a time out and really get some serious help for his sexual addiction before you are going to really enjoy sex the way God meant it to be, where it\u2019s very personable.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Nancy, I\u2019ve had this thought a couple of times in our conversation and just feel the need to ask it. There have to be <em>thousands<\/em> of men, listening to this broadcast, who\u2018ve had no idea how their dabbling with pornography impacts their wives. I\u2019ve heard you, in just the last few minutes, you\u2019ve equated that with affairs. I don\u2019t think most men view that as a lack of faithfulness. Comment, if you would, on that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Now, we treat porn so casually\u2014like: \u201cIt\u2019s totally normal,\u201d and \u201cWhat man doesn\u2019t look at it?\u201d And I just think: \u201cAw, that\u2019s not good for you; it\u2019s not good for your marriage; it\u2019s not good for your kids; it\u2019s not good for anybody.\u201d You know, I think porn hurts the men who look at it\u2014and the women.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that, ideally, in marriage, we made a covenant to have one sexual partner. Porn is receiving sexual gratification\u2014even if they are images\u2014there are still people on the other side of the screen. Whoever is looking at porn is still receiving social gratification from someone or <em>something<\/em> that isn\u2019t his or her spouse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think\u2014whenever I think about this, I think about Jesus talking to the Pharisees. He said: \u201cYou\u2019ve always said, \u2018Don\u2019t be unfaithful; don\u2019t have affairs,\u2019 but I say to you, anybody that looks on a woman to lust\u2014he has been unfaithful.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s Jesus, saying, \u201cLooking at pornography,\u201d\u2014and this was long before there were magazines and screens\u2014but He\u2019s saying to look with lust on someone else is a level of unfaithfulness that can be equated to adultery. Now, we hear that and go, \u201cIt\u2019s not the same\u201d; but the root is the same; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> You know, it is. Here\u2019s the thing\u2014we\u2019re all sexual creatures by God\u2019s design. It\u2019s normal to see a beautiful human\u2014to go: \u201cOh! God, there\u2019s a beautiful human being that You made. They are probably somebody\u2019s daughter,\u201d or \u201c\u2026son,\u201d or \u201c\u2026husband,\u201d or \u201c\u2026wife. God, You did good,\u201d and you just kind of let it go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we have these automatic sexual arousal systems that are just automatic. I think, sometimes, Christians get under a false barrel about that, so to speak\u2014like: \u201cOh! I\u2019m so bad!\u201d \u201cOh, I\u2019m feeling this sexual response to something that\u2019s\u2014I\u2019m so wrong,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m so bad,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m so dirty,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m so shameful.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it is way healthier when we can just go: \u201cYou know, God, You made me a sexual creature. I\u2019m going to have an automatic response to some\u2014to just sexual things, even if it\u2019s a beautiful person. I\u2019m just going\u2014\u2018I\u2019m just going to let that go.\u2019\u201d Then we can be healthier.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s when we start going down that pathway that: \u201cOh! What would it be like to\u2026\u201d That\u2019s just such a slippery slope for men and for women, and it\u2019s just a dangerous path to go down.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if you got a phone call today from somebody who said, \u201cOkay; my husband confessed last night he\u2019s been looking at pornography for 10 years,\u201d or \u201cMy wife told me, last night, that she\u2019s been unfaithful,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014what do we do? Step one, in that process for that couple, is what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> I\u2019d say to really be compassionate towards each other, especially the one who has done the cheating\u2014to be humble \/ to be: \u2018I am so sorry. I have hurt you so deeply. I\u2019m going to get help for this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, there\u2019s a lot of great programs nowadays. I was a part of the <em>Conquer Series<\/em>, which is a film series with workbooks, where men can get into groups and start processing some of their sexual infidelities\/pornography issues. I had one man I worked with who\u2014I\u2019m telling you\u2014this man came in and said he had been addicted to porn for 20 years: \u201cI have tried <em>everything<\/em>. I go to church all the time, I read my Bible all the time. I fast; I pray.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI know you\u2019ve tried really hard; haven\u2019t you?\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cYes; I have.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cOkay; we need to dig in. Tell me about your childhood.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe grew up with <em>so<\/em> much trauma, and abuse, and neglect. What brought him into therapy was\u2014he solicited a prostitute. She was an undercover cop, and he got busted. His wife had to come and bail him out of jail, so he started telling her. Of course, she was traumatized; because he then started pouring out his sexual history that she had no idea of. You know, we just\u2014they got into therapy; they got into a support groups; he got into a men\u2019s group; she got into a women\u2019s group. He got into another group, where he worked through his childhood trauma and abuse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI tell you what\u2014this couple now, every year on Valentine\u2019s, they do a big marriage party, where they have a dinner and dancing; because they want to celebrate marriage\u2014because they never thought they would make it. He was probably one of the most traumatized people I have ever worked with. I look at their marriage now\u2014and they tell their story, and now they help <em>hundreds<\/em> of other couples\u2014because they walked through, but it was like a five-year process. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> They did a lot of work. I know there were a lot times they were discouraged and they wanted to quit. I\u2019d say: \u201cJust don\u2019t quit. Just <em>don\u2019t<\/em> quit.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And the person, who thinks they hear about that pathway and they go, \u201cFive years of hard work, and emotional pain, and bringing up the past and stuff I\u2019m going to have to confront\u2014I would rather just take the exit and go find something safer.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> [Laughter] I\u2019m laughing because isn\u2019t that how we, as human beings, want to do it? We want to find the fantasy: \u201cDon\u2019t give me reality. Don\u2019t give me a real relationship with a real person.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> As if this exit is going to somehow to be safer than\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014than pressing into the pain. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got to figure it out: \u201cWhere you\u2019re going to end up?\u201d\u2014right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> You know, in the leadership work I do\u2014we talk about the character structure, which is all about: \u201cHow are we doing attachment? How are we really open to attaching to others?\u201d \u201cHow are we doing that piece of self-differentiation\u2014owning my own life?\u201d And the third one is: \u201cHow am I integrating negative realities?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor this couple\u2014if they decide: \u201cWe\u2019re not going to integrate these negative realities. We will either stuff it all down, pretend it never happened, and ignore it; or we\u2019re going to walk away from each other,\u201d\u2014you know, it\u2019s going to pop up \/ it\u2019s going to rear its ugly head. You can find a new spouse, but the <em>same<\/em> issues are there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know, for me, I was born and raised in Oregon. When I moved to Texas, I think I kind of hoped: \u201cOh, that\u2019s all there; and it\u2019s not coming with me.\u201d Well, guess what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It comes with you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Wherever I go, there I am! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> You know what I mean? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> New spouse, new environment, new state, new home, new car\u2014you know, it doesn\u2019t fix any of it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got to deal with ourselves and integrate those negative realities.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> New paint on the barn doesn\u2019t change the barn; does it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me turn the corner and just ask this question; because I think a lot of couples, who if we just asked them: \u201cHow\u2019s your marriage?\u201d \u201cHow\u2019s your sexual relationship?\u201d \u201cHow are you doing?\u201d\u2014they would say: \u201cIt\u2019s okay. I think we\u2019re doing okay.\u201d What is okay?\u00a0 What\u2019s normal? What\u2019s healthy? What should a couple be thinking: \u201cThis is what God intended for our intimate life to be like\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>I\u2019ve learned over the years\u2014because I get asked that question <em>all<\/em> the time\u2014when somebody asks, \u201cWhat\u2019s normal?\u201d I always ask them back, \u201cTell me what that means to you,\u201d because for some couples it means\u2014like porn, and strip clubs, and swinging is normal; you know? I would say that those things are outside of what, I think, is what God desires the best for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s pretty clear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think so.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> So I think we have to do a far better job of educating. You know, a lot of sexual problems can be resolved through good sexual education; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if a couple says to me: \u201cOh! Our sex life is good; it\u2019s okay,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014I\u2019m like: \u201cLet\u2019s\u2014I think God has way more for you than that. I would love for us to do the work, where you come in and go: \u2018Our sex life is great! We are so connected, and we have so much fun together. We have learned how to just explore, have fun, laugh, and be deeply connected,\u2019 and to make sex really an expression of making love\u2014of saying, \u2018I love you with my body.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So are you saying\u2014if a couple says, \u201cOur relationship \/ our sexual relationship is okay,\u201d\u2014don\u2019t try to fix the sexual relationship; try to fix the love relationship?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> I\u2019d say, \u201cAlways work on connecting.\u201d You know, it\u2019s so true! I\u2019ll say to men sometimes: \u201cYou know, make love to her heart before you make love to her body, and she\u2019ll be way more open to making love to your body. You know, if you will emotionally connect with her\u2014that goes a long way with women.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember, when I was super young, I went to this Bible study. The Bible teacher, Carol Wahl, was talking about how her husband had said something to her that really ticked her off. He had gone to bed; and she was just downstairs, fuming and talking to the Lord about what a jerk he was. [Laughter] The Lord said to her, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you go upstairs and make love to him?\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cReally?!\u201d He is like: \u201cYes! Why don\u2019t you do that?\u201d And so she did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve never forgot that story. I <em>love<\/em> that story because, sometimes, we women\u2014we think, \u201cWell, all the ducks have to be lined up\u2014everything has to be just so.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cYou know? It doesn\u2019t have to be.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I want to talk about when it isn\u2019t just so, because a lot of life has storms\u2014there\u2019s illnesses. Some couples just need to exhale and go: \u201cTake a look at where you are at right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cMaybe you two need to go out on a date\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Yes; yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and have some fun together and get out from under the cloud.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> You know, Ron and I took your advice. We went to some of your marriage conferences, and they were so great! We had four little boys \/ busy lives, but Friday night was date night. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember\u2014sometimes, at the end of that night, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, I remember why I married you,\u201d [Laughter] because, you know, sometimes you lose\u2014you know, it gets busy\u2014you lose track of each other. I think, to have a great sex life, you have to be <em>very<\/em> purposeful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d just like all of our listeners to think about: \u201cYou know, at the end of your life, if something on your tombstone was written about what kind of sexual person you were, what would you want it to say? \u2018Were you generous?\u2019 \u2018Were you kind?\u2019 \u2018Were you loving?\u2019 \u2018Were you tender?\u2019 \u2018Did you connect?\u2019 \u2018Were you giving?\u2019\u2014or you know\u2014\u2018Were you selfish and thoughtless?\u2019 So: \u2018What kind of person do you want to be?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You don\u2019t know this, no doubt, Nancy; but I like to ask questions that people have never been asked before. You just asked us one! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, have you ever been asked that question before?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No, I\u2014I\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019m not asking you to answer it either, by the way. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would encourage our listeners, though, to get a copy of Nancy\u2019s book, <em>Love and Sex<\/em> and then sign up for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Nancy just said \u201c\u2026four children,\u201d\u2014it has its own set of challenges\u2014it means you need to recalibrate, and revisit romance, and just have a little fun together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It may not be easy, but it\u2019s important. That\u2019s why we\u2019d encourage you to get some time and get away for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGet a copy of Nancy\u2019s book and read through it together, as a couple. Take a chapter\u2014maybe if it\u2019s just a few pages at night before you go to bed\u2014talk about this area of your marriage. Again, the book is called <em>Love and Sex: A Christian Guide to Healthy Intimacy.<\/em> You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s information about upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways available online, as well, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you have any questions call us: 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can order the book over the phone, or find out more about a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway and get registered when you call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d\u2019 as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA special thanks today to all of you who helped make our conversation with Nancy Houston possible this week. Those of you who support this ministry\u2014you make it possible for hundreds of thousands of people, every week, to receive practical biblical help and hope for their marriages and for their families\u2014not just here in the U.S.\u2014but around the world. We have people listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>,online, in every corner of the world. You make that possible as a supporter of the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, especially those of you who are Legacy Partners, who give monthly. Your monthly support is critical. It\u2019s the backbone of all that we do, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDuring the month of May, our team is hoping and praying that we might see 300 <em>new<\/em> Legacy Partners added this month. You break that down\u2014that\u2019s just six families in each of the 50 states where <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is heard. Would you be one of those six in your state to call or go online and become a Legacy Partner? When you do, your Legacy Partner donation is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, every month for the next 12 months. We\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have come along and said they will match those donations, up to a total of $500,000! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you become a Legacy Partner this month, we will send you, as a thank-you gift, a certificate for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. You can use that for yourself, give it to your adult children, give it to someone you know is getting married as a wedding gift, or share it with somebody you know who could use a getaway\u2014maybe even watch their kids as they get away for the weekend. Again, that\u2019s our gift to you when you sign on as one of our new Legacy Partners, here, in the month of May. Find out more when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014the website: FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear about two Old Testament characters, Hosea and Gomer. They have\u2014I think it\u2019s safe to say\u2014they have a rocky marriage; right? Bryan Loritts tells us what we can learn for our marriage from what happened with Hosea and Gomer. We\u2019ll hear that tomorrow. I hope you can tune in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:12"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.91M"],"filesize_raw":["26121374"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-300233.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-300233.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Houston encourages those involved in marital infidelity due to porn or a sexual affair, that healing is possible if you're willing to do the hard work.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-05-09.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The news of an extramarital affair can send shockwaves through a marriage. Nancy Houston says, for the spouse who learns of the affair, their world is rocked.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>We have to realize that the other spouse is going to have trauma brain. They are going to be traumatized by this news. They are going to feel like: \u201cI thought we had a pretty good marriage,\u201d and \u201cDo I even know this person I\u2019m married to? Will I ever trust this person again? Was our marriage a total sham?\u201d You know, we have to remember to not throw the baby out with the bath water\u2014but to know that hope and healing is possible\u2014but it\u2019s going to be a journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, May 9<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. How does a couple rebuild a marriage after there\u2019s been an affair? We\u2019ll talk with Nancy Houston about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. There are some couples, who are listening to us today, who have\u2014they\u2019ve experienced an explosion going off in their marriage, where at one moment they thought everything was fine, and a minute later, it\u2019s like ruins have come\u2014and that\u2019s when a husband or wife confesses to infidelity in a marriage relationship. Those moments are pivotal moments in terms of what that relationship is going to be, going forward.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; and this book\u2014the bestselling Book in history\u2014and our listener\u2019s thought I was going to introduce our guest right now. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and her book? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019m introducing God to the audience\u2014it\u2019s the Bible. This book has, from cover to cover, a story of broken people finding redemption.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to talk about that today with Nancy Houston, the author of a new book called <em>Love and Sex<\/em>. Nancy, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> It\u2019s been a privilege to have you with us talking about how pornography \/ how affairs are impacting\u2014not just our culture\u2014but the Christian community \/ the local church. You, for a number of years, led groups in the local church to help couples recover from pornography addictions \/ extramarital affairs. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet\u2019s go to what was Bob talking about: \u201cWhere should a couple go and how should they find healing in the area of their spouse having an extramarital affair?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Thankfully, there are some good resources for help. I think, first, we have to realize that, when there\u2019s been disclosure that somebody in the marriage has had an affair or somebody in the marriage has been receiving their sexual gratification from pornography\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014we have to realize that the other spouse is going to have trauma brain. They are going to be traumatized by this news. They are going to feel like: \u201cI thought we had a pretty good marriage,\u201d and \u201cDo I even know this person I\u2019m married to? Will I ever trust this person again? Was our marriage just a total sham?\u201d You know, we have to remember not to throw the baby out with the bath water\u2014but to know that hope and healing is possible\u2014but it\u2019s going to be a journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhoever had the affair or has been doing pornography, they are going to have to be ready to, really humbly\u2014you know, have a humble heart, first of all\u2014you know, like: \u201cI\u2019ve done the wrong thing. I\u2019ve really hurt you by this.\u201d Then, be willing to hear the other person\u2019s anger, their disappointment, maybe their disgust. They are going to want to ask questions; they are going to want to know information. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI always say to that spouse, who has been cheated on: \u201cMake sure you think, at least, for 24 hours before you start asking your spouse questions. I think you do need answers; but remember\u2014those answers will stay in your head; you may replay them in your head for a very, very long time. So be discreet about what you\u2019re asking the spouse\u2014what kind of information,\u201d\u2014you know, sometimes, they want details. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Oftentimes, you\u2019re going to need details; but really specific details aren\u2019t going to be very helpful\u2014they\u2019re just going to be more hurtful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Why do people need details? What are they looking for when they start asking these questions: \u201cHow many times has it been?\u201d and \u201cWhere did it happen?\u201d\u2014what are they trying to get to there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> I think\u2014one thing\u2014their brain is in trauma. The left logical brain helps the right emotional brain. The left logical brain is looking for facts, reasons, and logic\u2014like: \u201cWhat happened?\u201d \u201cWhere did you do that?\u201d \u201cHow many times did that happen?\u201d \u201cWhy did you do that?\u201d \u201cHow long have you been looking at porn?\u201d \u201cWhen did this start?\u201d \u201cHow many times have you cheated on me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the left brain trying to make sense of <em>all<\/em> these emotions, because there\u2019s going to be every emotion. It\u2019s like\u2014if we put your brain on a rug and pulled the rug out\u2014and so your brain is going to be spinning and spiraling. Both of you are going to need help to heal and recover. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve worked with couples, where, \u201cYou know, we\u2019re just not doing great.\u201d \u201cTell me your history together.\u201d \u201cWell, she had an affair 20 years ago and like we got over it.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo; you didn\u2019t,\u201d or you know, \u201cHe had an affair 10 years ago, but that\u2019s not our problem.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cIt might be. Did you really grieve deeply and profoundly?\u201d\u2014because grief work recalibrates us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, in the world we live in, we just want to get over things\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014you know, it\u2019s like: \u201cI forgive you. You know, it is fine. We\u2019ll just move on,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m done with you, and I\u2019m going to move on. I\u2019ll just cruise separately from you.\u201d We forget that there\u2019s a lot of grief work to do when there has been something traumatic happen in the marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Nancy, the person who is confessing, they can experience an emotion called <em>relief<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014that their sin they\u2019ve been hiding is now out in the open. They don\u2019t realize they have just dumped a dump truck. Like Bob described\u2014it\u2019s an atomic bomb that\u2019s gone off in the other person\u2019s life. They\u2019re [confessor\u2019s] feeling relief; the other person is feeling the betrayal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>Oh! They are devastated!\u2014absolutely; you are so right. I\u2019m so glad you said that, Dennis; because you\u2019ve been keeping these secrets for years and, suddenly, it\u2019s like: \u201cWhew! I\u2019ve got that off my chest. I feel so much better! What\u2019s wrong with you, honey? Why can\u2019t you get over it?\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201c<em>You<\/em> have altered my entire world.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Part of that altering of your world is: \u201cWhere I thought I was safe, I no longer feel safe; where I thought I was valued, I no longer feel valued; where I thought I was protected, I don\u2019t feel protected.\u201d You need to get in and understand what the impact of unfaithfulness has been. It\u2019s not just \u201cI had sex with somebody else,\u201d but \u201cI took what I had promised, and I violated every part of that promise so that now what you thought you could depend on, the ground has shifted.\u201d You\u2019re weightless; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s like in 1Corinthians 6\u2014the Apostle Paul says sex is way more than skin on skin; it\u2019s a spiritual mystery. It is, because it is something that goes deep into our souls. If we really understood that\u2014you know, we live in a world that treats sex so casually\u2014but there is <em>nothing<\/em>, <em>nothing<\/em> casual about sex at all. It is profound; it is deep; it is life-altering. I think we need to think way more deeply about this topic. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGetting back to the road to recovery for any of these couples\u2014whether it\u2019s something like, \u201cI hate sex, and I don\u2019t want to have sex,\u201d or \u201cMy spouse has had an affair,\u201d or \u201cMy spouse is looking at porn,\u201d or \u201cMy spouse is flirting with somebody else,\u201d\u2014you know, it\u2019s good to know that there <em>is<\/em> a healing pathway, but it is going to be a healing journey. It\u2019s not going to happen overnight. It\u2019s going to require a lot of being humble with each other\u2014of talking things through\u2014of: \u201cWhat\u2019s gone wrong, here, in our marriage?\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s gone wrong in our sexual lives together?\u201d \u201cWhat baggage did you bring in?\u201d \u201cWhat baggage did I bring in?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA lot of times, I hear wives say, \u201cI hate sex!\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cOkay; well, there is a reason you hate sex. Let\u2019s call a time out on sex, and let\u2019s kind of figure out why is it broken\u2014what happened.\u201d Sometimes, she\u2019ll have some sexual baggage from her growing up years. Sometimes, he is looking at a lot of porn and acting it out on her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had a woman, the other day, tell me, \u201cMy husband and I have sex frequently; but if I won\u2019t have sex with him, then he\u2019ll just go look at porn and take care of himself,\u201d and \u201cHe goes to strip clubs.\u201d She said: \u201cI still have sex with him, but I never look him in the face. I have to turn my face away from him.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, sex was made to be, eye to eye \/ person to person; you know? It wasn\u2019t meant to be this removed experience. I\u2019m like: \u201cYou know, that really hurts my heart for you\u2014that that\u2019s how sex is for you. I would encourage you guys, \u2018Call a time out and really get some serious help for his sexual addiction before you are going to really enjoy sex the way God meant it to be, where it\u2019s very personable.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Nancy, I\u2019ve had this thought a couple of times in our conversation and just feel the need to ask it. There have to be <em>thousands<\/em> of men, listening to this broadcast, who\u2018ve had no idea how their dabbling with pornography impacts their wives. I\u2019ve heard you, in just the last few minutes, you\u2019ve equated that with affairs. I don\u2019t think most men view that as a lack of faithfulness. Comment, if you would, on that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Now, we treat porn so casually\u2014like: \u201cIt\u2019s totally normal,\u201d and \u201cWhat man doesn\u2019t look at it?\u201d And I just think: \u201cAw, that\u2019s not good for you; it\u2019s not good for your marriage; it\u2019s not good for your kids; it\u2019s not good for anybody.\u201d You know, I think porn hurts the men who look at it\u2014and the women.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that, ideally, in marriage, we made a covenant to have one sexual partner. Porn is receiving sexual gratification\u2014even if they are images\u2014there are still people on the other side of the screen. Whoever is looking at porn is still receiving social gratification from someone or <em>something<\/em> that isn\u2019t his or her spouse.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think\u2014whenever I think about this, I think about Jesus talking to the Pharisees. He said: \u201cYou\u2019ve always said, \u2018Don\u2019t be unfaithful; don\u2019t have affairs,\u2019 but I say to you, anybody that looks on a woman to lust\u2014he has been unfaithful.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s Jesus, saying, \u201cLooking at pornography,\u201d\u2014and this was long before there were magazines and screens\u2014but He\u2019s saying to look with lust on someone else is a level of unfaithfulness that can be equated to adultery. Now, we hear that and go, \u201cIt\u2019s not the same\u201d; but the root is the same; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> You know, it is. Here\u2019s the thing\u2014we\u2019re all sexual creatures by God\u2019s design. It\u2019s normal to see a beautiful human\u2014to go: \u201cOh! God, there\u2019s a beautiful human being that You made. They are probably somebody\u2019s daughter,\u201d or \u201c\u2026son,\u201d or \u201c\u2026husband,\u201d or \u201c\u2026wife. God, You did good,\u201d and you just kind of let it go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we have these automatic sexual arousal systems that are just automatic. I think, sometimes, Christians get under a false barrel about that, so to speak\u2014like: \u201cOh! I\u2019m so bad!\u201d \u201cOh, I\u2019m feeling this sexual response to something that\u2019s\u2014I\u2019m so wrong,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m so bad,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m so dirty,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m so shameful.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it is way healthier when we can just go: \u201cYou know, God, You made me a sexual creature. I\u2019m going to have an automatic response to some\u2014to just sexual things, even if it\u2019s a beautiful person. I\u2019m just going\u2014\u2018I\u2019m just going to let that go.\u2019\u201d Then we can be healthier.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s when we start going down that pathway that: \u201cOh! What would it be like to\u2026\u201d That\u2019s just such a slippery slope for men and for women, and it\u2019s just a dangerous path to go down.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if you got a phone call today from somebody who said, \u201cOkay; my husband confessed last night he\u2019s been looking at pornography for 10 years,\u201d or \u201cMy wife told me, last night, that she\u2019s been unfaithful,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014what do we do? Step one, in that process for that couple, is what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> I\u2019d say to really be compassionate towards each other, especially the one who has done the cheating\u2014to be humble \/ to be: \u2018I am so sorry. I have hurt you so deeply. I\u2019m going to get help for this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, there\u2019s a lot of great programs nowadays. I was a part of the <em>Conquer Series<\/em>, which is a film series with workbooks, where men can get into groups and start processing some of their sexual infidelities\/pornography issues. I had one man I worked with who\u2014I\u2019m telling you\u2014this man came in and said he had been addicted to porn for 20 years: \u201cI have tried <em>everything<\/em>. I go to church all the time, I read my Bible all the time. I fast; I pray.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI know you\u2019ve tried really hard; haven\u2019t you?\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cYes; I have.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cOkay; we need to dig in. Tell me about your childhood.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe grew up with <em>so<\/em> much trauma, and abuse, and neglect. What brought him into therapy was\u2014he solicited a prostitute. She was an undercover cop, and he got busted. His wife had to come and bail him out of jail, so he started telling her. Of course, she was traumatized; because he then started pouring out his sexual history that she had no idea of. You know, we just\u2014they got into therapy; they got into a support groups; he got into a men\u2019s group; she got into a women\u2019s group. He got into another group, where he worked through his childhood trauma and abuse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI tell you what\u2014this couple now, every year on Valentine\u2019s, they do a big marriage party, where they have a dinner and dancing; because they want to celebrate marriage\u2014because they never thought they would make it. He was probably one of the most traumatized people I have ever worked with. I look at their marriage now\u2014and they tell their story, and now they help <em>hundreds<\/em> of other couples\u2014because they walked through, but it was like a five-year process. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> They did a lot of work. I know there were a lot times they were discouraged and they wanted to quit. I\u2019d say: \u201cJust don\u2019t quit. Just <em>don\u2019t<\/em> quit.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And the person, who thinks they hear about that pathway and they go, \u201cFive years of hard work, and emotional pain, and bringing up the past and stuff I\u2019m going to have to confront\u2014I would rather just take the exit and go find something safer.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> [Laughter] I\u2019m laughing because isn\u2019t that how we, as human beings, want to do it? We want to find the fantasy: \u201cDon\u2019t give me reality. Don\u2019t give me a real relationship with a real person.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> As if this exit is going to somehow to be safer than\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014than pressing into the pain. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got to figure it out: \u201cWhere you\u2019re going to end up?\u201d\u2014right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> You know, in the leadership work I do\u2014we talk about the character structure, which is all about: \u201cHow are we doing attachment? How are we really open to attaching to others?\u201d \u201cHow are we doing that piece of self-differentiation\u2014owning my own life?\u201d And the third one is: \u201cHow am I integrating negative realities?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor this couple\u2014if they decide: \u201cWe\u2019re not going to integrate these negative realities. We will either stuff it all down, pretend it never happened, and ignore it; or we\u2019re going to walk away from each other,\u201d\u2014you know, it\u2019s going to pop up \/ it\u2019s going to rear its ugly head. You can find a new spouse, but the <em>same<\/em> issues are there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know, for me, I was born and raised in Oregon. When I moved to Texas, I think I kind of hoped: \u201cOh, that\u2019s all there; and it\u2019s not coming with me.\u201d Well, guess what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It comes with you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Wherever I go, there I am! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> You know what I mean? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> New spouse, new environment, new state, new home, new car\u2014you know, it doesn\u2019t fix any of it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got to deal with ourselves and integrate those negative realities.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> New paint on the barn doesn\u2019t change the barn; does it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me turn the corner and just ask this question; because I think a lot of couples, who if we just asked them: \u201cHow\u2019s your marriage?\u201d \u201cHow\u2019s your sexual relationship?\u201d \u201cHow are you doing?\u201d\u2014they would say: \u201cIt\u2019s okay. I think we\u2019re doing okay.\u201d What is okay?\u00a0 What\u2019s normal? What\u2019s healthy? What should a couple be thinking: \u201cThis is what God intended for our intimate life to be like\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>I\u2019ve learned over the years\u2014because I get asked that question <em>all<\/em> the time\u2014when somebody asks, \u201cWhat\u2019s normal?\u201d I always ask them back, \u201cTell me what that means to you,\u201d because for some couples it means\u2014like porn, and strip clubs, and swinging is normal; you know? I would say that those things are outside of what, I think, is what God desires the best for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s pretty clear.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I think so.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> So I think we have to do a far better job of educating. You know, a lot of sexual problems can be resolved through good sexual education; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut if a couple says to me: \u201cOh! Our sex life is good; it\u2019s okay,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014I\u2019m like: \u201cLet\u2019s\u2014I think God has way more for you than that. I would love for us to do the work, where you come in and go: \u2018Our sex life is great! We are so connected, and we have so much fun together. We have learned how to just explore, have fun, laugh, and be deeply connected,\u2019 and to make sex really an expression of making love\u2014of saying, \u2018I love you with my body.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So are you saying\u2014if a couple says, \u201cOur relationship \/ our sexual relationship is okay,\u201d\u2014don\u2019t try to fix the sexual relationship; try to fix the love relationship?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> I\u2019d say, \u201cAlways work on connecting.\u201d You know, it\u2019s so true! I\u2019ll say to men sometimes: \u201cYou know, make love to her heart before you make love to her body, and she\u2019ll be way more open to making love to your body. You know, if you will emotionally connect with her\u2014that goes a long way with women.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember, when I was super young, I went to this Bible study. The Bible teacher, Carol Wahl, was talking about how her husband had said something to her that really ticked her off. He had gone to bed; and she was just downstairs, fuming and talking to the Lord about what a jerk he was. [Laughter] The Lord said to her, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you go upstairs and make love to him?\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cReally?!\u201d He is like: \u201cYes! Why don\u2019t you do that?\u201d And so she did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve never forgot that story. I <em>love<\/em> that story because, sometimes, we women\u2014we think, \u201cWell, all the ducks have to be lined up\u2014everything has to be just so.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cYou know? It doesn\u2019t have to be.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I want to talk about when it isn\u2019t just so, because a lot of life has storms\u2014there\u2019s illnesses. Some couples just need to exhale and go: \u201cTake a look at where you are at right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u201cMaybe you two need to go out on a date\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Yes; yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014and have some fun together and get out from under the cloud.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> You know, Ron and I took your advice. We went to some of your marriage conferences, and they were so great! We had four little boys \/ busy lives, but Friday night was date night. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember\u2014sometimes, at the end of that night, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, I remember why I married you,\u201d [Laughter] because, you know, sometimes you lose\u2014you know, it gets busy\u2014you lose track of each other. I think, to have a great sex life, you have to be <em>very<\/em> purposeful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d just like all of our listeners to think about: \u201cYou know, at the end of your life, if something on your tombstone was written about what kind of sexual person you were, what would you want it to say? \u2018Were you generous?\u2019 \u2018Were you kind?\u2019 \u2018Were you loving?\u2019 \u2018Were you tender?\u2019 \u2018Did you connect?\u2019 \u2018Were you giving?\u2019\u2014or you know\u2014\u2018Were you selfish and thoughtless?\u2019 So: \u2018What kind of person do you want to be?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You don\u2019t know this, no doubt, Nancy; but I like to ask questions that people have never been asked before. You just asked us one! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, have you ever been asked that question before?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No, I\u2014I\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I\u2019m not asking you to answer it either, by the way. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would encourage our listeners, though, to get a copy of Nancy\u2019s book, <em>Love and Sex<\/em> and then sign up for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Nancy just said \u201c\u2026four children,\u201d\u2014it has its own set of challenges\u2014it means you need to recalibrate, and revisit romance, and just have a little fun together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It may not be easy, but it\u2019s important. That\u2019s why we\u2019d encourage you to get some time and get away for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGet a copy of Nancy\u2019s book and read through it together, as a couple. Take a chapter\u2014maybe if it\u2019s just a few pages at night before you go to bed\u2014talk about this area of your marriage. Again, the book is called <em>Love and Sex: A Christian Guide to Healthy Intimacy.<\/em> You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s information about upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways available online, as well, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you have any questions call us: 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can order the book over the phone, or find out more about a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway and get registered when you call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d\u2019 as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA special thanks today to all of you who helped make our conversation with Nancy Houston possible this week. Those of you who support this ministry\u2014you make it possible for hundreds of thousands of people, every week, to receive practical biblical help and hope for their marriages and for their families\u2014not just here in the U.S.\u2014but around the world. We have people listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>,online, in every corner of the world. You make that possible as a supporter of the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, especially those of you who are Legacy Partners, who give monthly. Your monthly support is critical. It\u2019s the backbone of all that we do, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDuring the month of May, our team is hoping and praying that we might see 300 <em>new<\/em> Legacy Partners added this month. You break that down\u2014that\u2019s just six families in each of the 50 states where <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is heard. Would you be one of those six in your state to call or go online and become a Legacy Partner? When you do, your Legacy Partner donation is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, every month for the next 12 months. We\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have come along and said they will match those donations, up to a total of $500,000! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you become a Legacy Partner this month, we will send you, as a thank-you gift, a certificate for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway. You can use that for yourself, give it to your adult children, give it to someone you know is getting married as a wedding gift, or share it with somebody you know who could use a getaway\u2014maybe even watch their kids as they get away for the weekend. Again, that\u2019s our gift to you when you sign on as one of our new Legacy Partners, here, in the month of May. Find out more when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014the website: FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear about two Old Testament characters, Hosea and Gomer. They have\u2014I think it\u2019s safe to say\u2014they have a rocky marriage; right? Bryan Loritts tells us what we can learn for our marriage from what happened with Hosea and Gomer. We\u2019ll hear that tomorrow. I hope you can tune in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300233","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300233"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300233"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300233"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300233"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300233"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300233"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300233"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}