{"id":300191,"date":"2018-03-27T11:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-03-27T15:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/made-in-gods-image\/"},"modified":"2024-10-07T22:41:22","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T02:41:22","slug":"made-in-gods-image","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/made-in-gods-image\/","title":{"rendered":"Made in God&#8217;s Image"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Author Andrew Walker talks about our dignity as individuals. Walker reminds listeners they are more than their moral choices and personal identity because they are made in the image of God.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-03-27.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:24:51","filesize":"22.76M","filesize_raw":"23866465","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2896,2806],"tags":[4310,4307,4313,4312,4311,4306,4308],"podcast_series":[7202],"cwp_profile":[8823],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-300191","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-lgbt","category-spiritual-development","tag-dignity","tag-gender-fluidity","tag-made-in-the-image-of-god","tag-making-good-choices","tag-morality","tag-sexual-revolution","tag-todays-culture","podcast_series-god-and-the-transgender-debate","cwp_profile-andrew-walker","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/300191\/made-in-gods-image","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/300191\/made-in-gods-image","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"xAVFO5DcoY\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/made-in-gods-image\/\">Made in God&#8217;s Image<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/made-in-gods-image\/embed\/#?secret=xAVFO5DcoY\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Made in God&#8217;s Image&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"xAVFO5DcoY\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-03-27.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/web.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-03-27.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Transgenderism as an identity is something that has become at least accepted, if not advocated, in our culture. Andrew Walker says that\u2019s going to mean conflict for those of us who believe the Bible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>It\u2019s very possible that if you\u2019re a family member of someone who\u2019s identifying as transgender, you might be the very last person in that person\u2019s life that is willing to speak truth to them; because it\u2019s likely that, in a corporate setting or in a job setting, that person has been given full acceptance to identify as transgender. Their social network might identify them by their preferred gender identity; and you, as a family member, might be the very last person who says to them, \u201cListen, I love you, but I\u2019m not going to affirm this identity in you; because I don\u2019t think this is how God made you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, March 27<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow can we, as Christians, be people who are full of truth and grace when the world is changing around us? We\u2019ll talk about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We are talking about something this week that\u2014you go back 20 or 30 years, and we would have thought, \u201cThis is so kind of cordoned off that it is way out of the mainstream.\u201d Today, the subject of transgenderism is front and center and being celebrated and affirmed in our culture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And it\u2019s in the news and it\u2019s in our schools. There are a lot of symbols of transgenderism in our country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have Andrew Walker with us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Andrew, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>It\u2019s good to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Andrew is the author of a new book called <em>God and the Transgender Debate<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a sign of the changing times\u2014that there are transgender restrooms for people to go into.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>That is definitely one of the newest horizons that we\u2019re seeing around these gender debates. There are also kind of pressure points in the culture, where there have been enormous public policy disputes that you\u2019ve seen happen in places such as North Carolina. There have been proposals in other states; and they\u2019re very, very controversial, even to bring this up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was in our local grocery store the other day, and they have single-use bathrooms that are unisex. I don\u2019t have any problem with single-use bathrooms that are unisex.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Which is, to me, one of the win-win compromises that would allow the culture war kind of issues to kind of subside around transgenderism; because you can have single stall restrooms, it doesn\u2019t matter if you\u2019re a boy, girl, male, female. If you need to go to the bathroom, you need to go to the bathroom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The only thing is\u2014I feel sorry for women, because men\u2014I\u2019m sorry. [Laughter] You with me?! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, there\u2019s just a difference between the restroom for women\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019ve moved to the scatological here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014[Laughter]\u2014maybe for the first time in 25 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think so. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut seriously, I mean, there\u2019s a certain part of human dignity that is respected when you go back to the Book of Genesis, in Chapter 1, where it says, \u201cIn the beginning God made them male and female, in the image of God He made them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Yes; and I would say it\u2019s very wise to create bathroom policies and locker room policies on sex difference; because again, males and females are comprehensively different. Yes; we\u2019re both humans \/ we\u2019re both equal in the eyes of God, but God made us different\u2014made us different down to the level of our chromosomes, to our anatomy and our physiology, and even how we think. So it is good to make restroom policies based on that need for privacy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPrivacy is a serious issue, and that\u2019s one of the issues that I think has kind of raised the eyebrows of a lot of Christian parents in the public schools.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Andrew, this is just a symptom of the public discourse that goes on over this issue. I think, as Christians, we\u2019re trying to ask ourselves the question: \u201cHow can we celebrate, affirm, rejoice in the personal dignity of every human being\u2014affirm that every human is created with dignity in the image of God? How can we do that and also hold to the idea that God creates us male and female, knowing that there are some people who say: \u2018I understand myself differently, and who are you to impose your understanding of self on <em>me<\/em>? Can\u2019t you just leave <em>me<\/em> to be who I think I am? How can you say you affirm my dignity and not allow <em>me<\/em> to embrace my own sense of self?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Because, again, one of the most beautiful teachings that Christianity has to offer is that you are more than your moral choices \/ you are more than your personal identity; and because you are made in the image of God, I can fundamentally disagree with you, and still respect you, and still love you, and still be kind to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut to push back a little bit on your statement\u2014the person who says, \u201cWhy are you judging me or wanting me to live according to <em>your<\/em> way?\u201d is, in the same way, putting judgment on me and wanting me to conform to their expectations. So this is a question, really, we want to ask of: \u201cWhat should society believe about how God made us, as male and female, or what does it just mean to be male and female under the law?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe can acknowledge that there\u2019s going to be a very statistically few circumstances where individuals are going to experience gender incongruence or a mismatch, but I don\u2019t think it\u2019s wise to create public policy based on these narrow exceptions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to create public policy based on the standard rule of how God made us, as male and female, and to uphold those biological distinctions, and those sexual distinctions, and to uphold the privacy rights of women and children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI often hear in these debates about: \u201cTransgender individuals just want to go to the restroom.\u201d I fully understand and recognize that, but their opinion isn\u2019t the only opinion in this issue; there are women and there are children to consider as well. We need to be thinking through, as a society: \u201cWhat\u2019s a more board, comprehensive, compromised solution that upholds everyone\u2019s dignity and everyone\u2019s privacy?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s a tough assignment; because, as a follower of Christ, I\u2019m called to love. That doesn\u2019t mean I\u2019m called to change the rules of how society operates just because of a certain segment who wants to have it differently.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Well, and sometimes\u2014people will often recite the golden rule here\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMatthew 7:12: \u201cTreat others the way you want to be treated,\u201d as kind of a <em>quid pro quo<\/em> that:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI\u2019ll affirm what you want affirmed if you\u2019ll affirm what I want affirmed.\u201d That\u2019s not what that passage means, because Jesus is always talking about what is in our best interest. What that means is\u2014we\u2019re going to disagree on what should be affirmed; because at root, we\u2019re asking the question of: \u201cWhat is God\u2019s goal and purpose for us in how He made us as male and female?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; you\u2019re talking about a worldview at that point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Our worldview, as followers of Christ, is going to clash with those who have a secular worldview. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to talk about something you mentioned earlier, but we didn\u2019t really unpack. You talk about gender dysphoria; and basically, that\u2019s where a person gets confused and they\u2019re not self-identifying according to, biologically, how God made them. Talk to the person who\u2019s listening to us, right now, who may have experienced gender dysphoria or gender confusion. Is he in sin \/ is she in sin to grapple and struggle with something\u2014with a temptation like that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>To be very clear, I do not think someone who experiences gender dysphoria is sinning when they experience gender dysphoria. I place gender dysphoria in the same category as I do depression. We wouldn\u2019t say someone who experiences depression or struggles with depression is sinning when they have depression. What we would say is: \u201cListen, we live in a Genesis 3 world and a Romans 8 world, where this world and all of creation has been wrecked by sin. Sin manifests itself in brokenness\u2014and brokenness down to the level of our minds, and our bodies, and our DNA.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI do not think someone, who is experiencing these psychological challenges, is in themselves sinning when they have experiences. I think what begins to become sinful is when someone says: \u201cOkay; I\u2019m going to ignore how God made me. I\u2019m going to ignore the truth of my biological sex, and I\u2019m going to choose to identify and affirm what I\u2019m experiencing in my mind.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I\u2019m thinking of another temptation, like lust.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s clear in the Bible that being tempted to lust is not sin. It\u2019s when we grapple and begin to play with it, and toy with it, and cave into it, and allow our mind to go there. We have a choice of whether or not we <em>act<\/em> on what we\u2019re thinking and what\u2019s tempting us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and those of us who experience the temptation of lust know that there are things we can do in our lives to turn down the intensity\/the frequency. There are practices we can entertain that will help us deal nobly and honorably with lust. Is it true, with people who experience gender dysphoria, that if they will take on certain spiritual disciplines, they can actually turn down some of that gender dysphoria in their lives?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Well, I want to be clear that, if someone\u2019s a Christian and experiencing gender dysphoria, I don\u2019t want to promise them that someday\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that\u2019s going to go away.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>\u2014that\u2019s going to go away. I can\u2019t make that promise. What I can say is that the Bible says that, when we are weak, Christ is strong; and His grace is sufficient in our weakness. What the Holy Spirit does, when the Spirit comes into our life is\u2014He works to conform us into the image of Christ. Christ comes into our life, and we find <em>Him<\/em> more satisfying than the brokenness of our struggles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and you said something\u2014you said, \u201c\u2026in our weakness.\u201d So we\u2019re classifying gender dysphoria here as a weakness\u2014that\u2019s where some, on the other side, would say: \u201cThis is not a weakness. This is who I am, and to classify it as a weakness is a wrong characterization.\u201d This is where we have to decide: \u201cWhat\u2019s our source of truth?\u2014is it how we feel?\u2014is it what biology says?\u2014or is it what God says in His revealed Word? Do you think the Bible is clear on gender identity and how God has made us male and female?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>I do. I mean, there\u2019s obviously no verse in the Bible that says, \u201cHere\u2019s what gender identity means: \u2018<em>x,\u2019 \u2018y,\u2019<\/em> and \u2018<em>z<\/em>\u2019\u201d; but when we look at the earliest passages in Genesis, what we see is God making male and female equal, but distinct. Part of what makes male and female unique and complementary is the fact that each possesses a reproductive ability that the other needs in order for there to be reproduction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would make the case that our gender identity is based on our composition as how God made us, biologically, down to the level of our chromosomes; but then, also, our reproductive ability is important here as well. This doesn\u2019t mean, if you\u2019re struggling with infertility that you\u2019re not a male \/ you\u2019re not a female, but what it means is that one of the distinguishing marks that makes us clearly male and female is that reproductive ability. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is <em>more<\/em> to being male and female than our reproductive anatomy; but we\u2019re never <em>less<\/em> than our reproductive anatomy, because of how God made us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s say there\u2019s a listener, right now, who has a family member, who has maybe come out and said: \u201cI\u2019m transgender. I\u2019m a trans-male,\u201d and you knew the person as a female, growing up. Coach that adult in how to deal with another adult, who is choosing to place their bets on something that goes against God\u2019s design.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>A lot of my answer on this depends on the nature of the relationships and the proximity that this person has to this person, who\u2019s identifying as transgender. If this is a close person to me\u2014if this is a family member \/ if this is a sibling or a child of mine\u2014my own conviction is that I would not be willing to refer to that person by their new pronoun, or by their new name, or refer to them as their new gender identity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhy is that? Because, first-off, as a Christian, I feel like I am to speak the truth in love. I think I have the relational capital to speak truth to that person. That person ought to know that my love for them is bigger and stronger than what this disagreement is right here. That person ought to know that I\u2019m going to be here, loving them regardless of how they identify, and they ought to be able to have a level of assurance that, even if I\u2019m disagreeing with them, it doesn\u2019t mean I hate them; it doesn\u2019t mean I want to discriminate against them; it doesn\u2019t mean I want to do them any harm at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut more importantly, it\u2019s very possible that, if you\u2019re a family member of who\u2019s identifying as transgender, you might be the very last person in that person\u2019s life that is willing to speak truth to them; because it\u2019s likely that, in a corporate setting or in a job setting, that person has been given full acceptance to identify as transgender. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTheir social network might identify them by their preferred gender identity; and you, as their family member, might be the very last person who says to them: \u201cListen, I love you; but I\u2019m not going to affirm this identity in you, because I don\u2019t think this is how God made you. You know I love you \/ you know I\u2019m not going anywhere, and nothing about your circumstances is going to change that. But because of what I know to be true of you, based on what I know is true of the Bible, I\u2019m going to refer to you as your biological sex and the name that you were given.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, that\u2019s one thing to do within a family; but today, in the corporate community, there are laws that are being enacted now that say: \u201cIf you and I are going to work together, and if I decide that I\u2019m transgender, you have to refer to me by my new preferred sex. What would you do if you were in a job, where you were required to speak in terms of pronouns of the new sex of the person?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s really important, right now, to emphasize that I think there\u2019s a conscience issue here, that each Christian is going to have to grapple with for themselves, especially in kind of the more ambiguous settings, like a corporate setting or a workplace setting. So, first, I want the Christian to do what their conscience is comfortable with. With that said, if you are being forced to sign something or forced to assent to something that you are uncomfortable with, and that you disagree with, and that you think violates Scripture, you need to raise that concern with your employer. Quite frankly, you need to be willing to pay the price for your conscience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have a lot of people contact me about different dilemmas that they\u2019re involved in in various work environments. The assumption in their question to me is that there is an easy resolution to their ethical dilemma. And sometimes, there\u2019s simply not a resolution other than obeying your conscience and paying the price for your conscience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s going to be something that we have to really grapple with in the coming days and years as the transgender revolution continues to march on\u2014that there are settings that are going to be very difficult for Christians to enter into in the future. I say that with great regret; because I want Christians to be everywhere in the culture, being salt and light. But there are going to be some places\u2014corporate settings, educational settings, counseling settings\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The military\u2014I mean, the list goes on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>\u2014medical settings\u2014that might produce a conflict with a Christian conscience. What I would recommend is: \u201cAlways obey your conscience, and never go against what your conscience is telling you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And don\u2019t forget to just pray and ask God for wisdom in how to confront the issue. Bob, you were asked, by a follower of Christ, how to handle a situation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; he came to me and said: \u201cHere\u2019s what we\u2019ve been told at work. This person is to be referred to with the preferred pronouns, and that\u2019s now corporate policy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd he said, \u201cWhat do I do?\u2014because it\u2019s a violation of my own conscience to do that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cWell, here\u2019s the first thing I\u2019d do\u2014I would avoid pronouns. I would refer to that person by whatever they\u2019re choosing as their given name.\u201d Now, you may say, \u201cWell, if they\u2019re choosing Amanda as their given name\u2014that has a female connotation.\u201d I\u2019d say, \u201cWell, okay; but it\u2019s different than you assigning a gender when you call them by a given name.\u201d I would say\u2014rather than saying, \u201cHere\u2019s what she said,\u201d\u2014I\u2019d say: \u201cThis is what Amanda said,\u201d and \u201cAmanda thinks we should do it this way,\u201d and \u201cI think we need to listen to Amanda.\u201d I would just avoid the pronouns altogether.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think to your point\u2014we have an example in Scripture of what you do when you live in a culture that\u2019s hostile to your views and you\u2019re called upon to violate the views, like eat meat offered to idols or bow down to King Nebuchadnezzar. What do you do? Daniel winsomely appealed\u2014Daniel went before the authorities and said, \u201cI\u2019d like to propose an alternate solution.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe did it respectfully; he did it with humility. He had an approach here that said, \u201cO king, you\u2019re the king; but here\u2019s how I\u2019m going to appeal\u2026\u201d\u2014knowing that there\u2019s a lions\u2019 den out there, and there\u2019s a fiery furnace out there, and we may face those things. If we do, we have to trust God in the midst of them. We don\u2019t back down from our convictions just because of the furnace, or the lions\u2019 den, or the unemployment line is in our future.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Acts, in Chapter 5, says: \u201cWe have to obey God rather than men.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>And so, we want to honor conscience, on the one hand\u2014and too, something else you just said\u2014I think we have the mechanisms and the ability to respectfully let an employer know that this is an infringement on our conscience. You don\u2019t lose your religious liberty just because you enter into a certain work environment. So this means\u2014you know, you may not want to be entering into lengthy legal dilemmas\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but because we have a first amendment in this country, you have as much right as anyone else to register a concern with an employer. And I would say, if that\u2019s something you want to do, be prepared to do that\u2014do it winsomely, and kindly,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and humbly\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>\u2014and humbly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and with meekness. That\u2019s\u2014you know, a lot of people go around asserting their rights: \u201cWell, you can\u2019t make me do it.\u201d Just go in, appealing with humility: \u201cI want to be a good employee here, but this causes me to violate my conscience.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>But I would say, to kind of round out kind of the pronoun\/naming controversy, is\u2014you always want to ask the question of: \u201cWhat is my relationship with this person?\u201d and \u201cIn what context am I in a relationship with this person?\u201d Because I think that is going to kind of shape our response in various outcomes and circumstances. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think what you\u2019re challenging all of us to are a couple of things: first of all, know what you believe the Scripture teaches about male and female. Genesis, \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tChapter 1\u2014God did not stutter. He said He made us \u201c\u2026male and female, in the image of God He created them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA second thing you\u2019re challenging us to\u2014and we\u2019ve hit it, repeatedly, in this conversation today\u2014is that of being loving, kind, and respectful toward other people. That may mean you take the conversation to a private place, where you talk to your boss\u2014and as, Bob, you were saying Daniel did, he appealed to the king\u2014but he did so in a way where we could get a hearing and he could be understood. He asked for grace to be able to continue to stand for what he thought was right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; one of the reasons that we really appreciate your book is because you call us to engage on this issue with wisdom, with compassion, with kindness, [and] with grace. If we\u2019re going to engage on this or any issue, where we\u2019re in conflict with the culture, we have to be winsome in our engagement. I just want to encourage listeners, get a copy of <em>God and the Transgender Debate: What Does the Bible Actually Say About Gender Identity? <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, at the core of all of this\u2014especially as we think about raising our children in this culture\u2014at the core is the question of: \u201cWhere does truth come from? What\u2019s your source of truth and authority?\u201d For those of who would say the Bible is that source of truth, we should not be surprised that we\u2019ll be in conflict with our culture. As we raise our children, we\u2019re going to have to teach our children how to keep Christ at the center of all that they do, and all that they think, and all that they believe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re just now wrapping up production of a resource we have been working on for more than a year\u2014it\u2019s called <em>FamilyLife\u2019s Art of Parenting<\/em>\u2122. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s an eight-session DVD series for small groups or for churches to use. It\u2019s also going to be available, online, for couples to go through in a digital experience. The goal of this is to help moms and dads with strategies for how to raise the next generation to be anchored in the gospel. If you\u2019d like to find out more about the<em> Art of Parenting<\/em>, there\u2019s a video clip you can watch, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s also information about a new movie that is going to be the kickoff event for the<em> Art of Parenting.<\/em> It\u2019s in theaters for two nights only, May 1<sup>st<\/sup> and May 3<sup>rd<\/sup>, in more than 800 theaters across the country. The movie is called <em>Like Arrows<\/em>. It was co-produced with our friends, Alex and Stephen Kendrick, who offered a lot of help on this film. In fact, Alex has a role in the movie. We\u2019re hoping that we will have packed theaters on May 1<sup>st<\/sup> and May 3<sup>rd<\/sup> to see what we think is going to be a very engaging film, called <em>Like Arrows<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, you can watch a trailer for the movie, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; and tickets are on sale already. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for information about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe whole goal with all of this is to try to stir up a movement of intentional parenting. We\u2019re hoping, in the midst of this, to take biblical parenting principles and put them in the hands of people\u2014who are not listening to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>\/ not attending a local church\u2014people who need to hear the gospel and people who need to hear about God\u2019s design for parenting.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re developing strategies to try to get this material into those hands, and we\u2019d like your help. If you\u2019d made a donation today, you will help us reach more people. In fact, we calculate it takes about $10 to reach a family; so whatever you can do, we\u2019d love to have you join us. Donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY. When you do, we have a set of seven prayer cards we will send you to help you pray more regularly and more intentionally for your own children or your grandchildren. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose prayer cards are our thank-you gift for partnering with us as we seek to bring practical biblical help and hope to marriages and families.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow as we\u2019re going to talk about what moms and dads need to keep in mind as we raise the next generation in a brave new transgendered world. That conversation comes up tomorrow. I hope you can be here for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> of Little Rock, Arkansas; \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:24:51"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["22.76M"],"filesize_raw":["23866465"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-300191.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-300191.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Andrew Walker talks about our dignity as individuals. Walker reminds listeners they are more than their moral choices and personal identity because they are made in the image of God.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylifetoday.com\/fl2018-03-27.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Transgenderism as an identity is something that has become at least accepted, if not advocated, in our culture. Andrew Walker says that\u2019s going to mean conflict for those of us who believe the Bible.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>It\u2019s very possible that if you\u2019re a family member of someone who\u2019s identifying as transgender, you might be the very last person in that person\u2019s life that is willing to speak truth to them; because it\u2019s likely that, in a corporate setting or in a job setting, that person has been given full acceptance to identify as transgender. Their social network might identify them by their preferred gender identity; and you, as a family member, might be the very last person who says to them, \u201cListen, I love you, but I\u2019m not going to affirm this identity in you; because I don\u2019t think this is how God made you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, March 27<sup>th<\/sup>. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>1:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow can we, as Christians, be people who are full of truth and grace when the world is changing around us? We\u2019ll talk about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We are talking about something this week that\u2014you go back 20 or 30 years, and we would have thought, \u201cThis is so kind of cordoned off that it is way out of the mainstream.\u201d Today, the subject of transgenderism is front and center and being celebrated and affirmed in our culture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And it\u2019s in the news and it\u2019s in our schools. There are a lot of symbols of transgenderism in our country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have Andrew Walker with us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Andrew, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>It\u2019s good to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Andrew is the author of a new book called <em>God and the Transgender Debate<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>2:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a sign of the changing times\u2014that there are transgender restrooms for people to go into.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>That is definitely one of the newest horizons that we\u2019re seeing around these gender debates. There are also kind of pressure points in the culture, where there have been enormous public policy disputes that you\u2019ve seen happen in places such as North Carolina. There have been proposals in other states; and they\u2019re very, very controversial, even to bring this up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was in our local grocery store the other day, and they have single-use bathrooms that are unisex. I don\u2019t have any problem with single-use bathrooms that are unisex.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Which is, to me, one of the win-win compromises that would allow the culture war kind of issues to kind of subside around transgenderism; because you can have single stall restrooms, it doesn\u2019t matter if you\u2019re a boy, girl, male, female. If you need to go to the bathroom, you need to go to the bathroom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>The only thing is\u2014I feel sorry for women, because men\u2014I\u2019m sorry. [Laughter] You with me?! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>3:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, there\u2019s just a difference between the restroom for women\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019ve moved to the scatological here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014[Laughter]\u2014maybe for the first time in 25 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think so. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut seriously, I mean, there\u2019s a certain part of human dignity that is respected when you go back to the Book of Genesis, in Chapter 1, where it says, \u201cIn the beginning God made them male and female, in the image of God He made them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Yes; and I would say it\u2019s very wise to create bathroom policies and locker room policies on sex difference; because again, males and females are comprehensively different. Yes; we\u2019re both humans \/ we\u2019re both equal in the eyes of God, but God made us different\u2014made us different down to the level of our chromosomes, to our anatomy and our physiology, and even how we think. So it is good to make restroom policies based on that need for privacy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>4:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPrivacy is a serious issue, and that\u2019s one of the issues that I think has kind of raised the eyebrows of a lot of Christian parents in the public schools.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Andrew, this is just a symptom of the public discourse that goes on over this issue. I think, as Christians, we\u2019re trying to ask ourselves the question: \u201cHow can we celebrate, affirm, rejoice in the personal dignity of every human being\u2014affirm that every human is created with dignity in the image of God? How can we do that and also hold to the idea that God creates us male and female, knowing that there are some people who say: \u2018I understand myself differently, and who are you to impose your understanding of self on <em>me<\/em>? Can\u2019t you just leave <em>me<\/em> to be who I think I am? How can you say you affirm my dignity and not allow <em>me<\/em> to embrace my own sense of self?\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>5:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Because, again, one of the most beautiful teachings that Christianity has to offer is that you are more than your moral choices \/ you are more than your personal identity; and because you are made in the image of God, I can fundamentally disagree with you, and still respect you, and still love you, and still be kind to you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut to push back a little bit on your statement\u2014the person who says, \u201cWhy are you judging me or wanting me to live according to <em>your<\/em> way?\u201d is, in the same way, putting judgment on me and wanting me to conform to their expectations. So this is a question, really, we want to ask of: \u201cWhat should society believe about how God made us, as male and female, or what does it just mean to be male and female under the law?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe can acknowledge that there\u2019s going to be a very statistically few circumstances where individuals are going to experience gender incongruence or a mismatch, but I don\u2019t think it\u2019s wise to create public policy based on these narrow exceptions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>6:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to create public policy based on the standard rule of how God made us, as male and female, and to uphold those biological distinctions, and those sexual distinctions, and to uphold the privacy rights of women and children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI often hear in these debates about: \u201cTransgender individuals just want to go to the restroom.\u201d I fully understand and recognize that, but their opinion isn\u2019t the only opinion in this issue; there are women and there are children to consider as well. We need to be thinking through, as a society: \u201cWhat\u2019s a more board, comprehensive, compromised solution that upholds everyone\u2019s dignity and everyone\u2019s privacy?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>That\u2019s a tough assignment; because, as a follower of Christ, I\u2019m called to love. That doesn\u2019t mean I\u2019m called to change the rules of how society operates just because of a certain segment who wants to have it differently.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Well, and sometimes\u2014people will often recite the golden rule here\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMatthew 7:12: \u201cTreat others the way you want to be treated,\u201d as kind of a <em>quid pro quo<\/em> that:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>7:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cI\u2019ll affirm what you want affirmed if you\u2019ll affirm what I want affirmed.\u201d That\u2019s not what that passage means, because Jesus is always talking about what is in our best interest. What that means is\u2014we\u2019re going to disagree on what should be affirmed; because at root, we\u2019re asking the question of: \u201cWhat is God\u2019s goal and purpose for us in how He made us as male and female?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; you\u2019re talking about a worldview at that point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Our worldview, as followers of Christ, is going to clash with those who have a secular worldview. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to talk about something you mentioned earlier, but we didn\u2019t really unpack. You talk about gender dysphoria; and basically, that\u2019s where a person gets confused and they\u2019re not self-identifying according to, biologically, how God made them. Talk to the person who\u2019s listening to us, right now, who may have experienced gender dysphoria or gender confusion. Is he in sin \/ is she in sin to grapple and struggle with something\u2014with a temptation like that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>8:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>To be very clear, I do not think someone who experiences gender dysphoria is sinning when they experience gender dysphoria. I place gender dysphoria in the same category as I do depression. We wouldn\u2019t say someone who experiences depression or struggles with depression is sinning when they have depression. What we would say is: \u201cListen, we live in a Genesis 3 world and a Romans 8 world, where this world and all of creation has been wrecked by sin. Sin manifests itself in brokenness\u2014and brokenness down to the level of our minds, and our bodies, and our DNA.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI do not think someone, who is experiencing these psychological challenges, is in themselves sinning when they have experiences. I think what begins to become sinful is when someone says: \u201cOkay; I\u2019m going to ignore how God made me. I\u2019m going to ignore the truth of my biological sex, and I\u2019m going to choose to identify and affirm what I\u2019m experiencing in my mind.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>9:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And I\u2019m thinking of another temptation, like lust.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It\u2019s clear in the Bible that being tempted to lust is not sin. It\u2019s when we grapple and begin to play with it, and toy with it, and cave into it, and allow our mind to go there. We have a choice of whether or not we <em>act<\/em> on what we\u2019re thinking and what\u2019s tempting us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and those of us who experience the temptation of lust know that there are things we can do in our lives to turn down the intensity\/the frequency. There are practices we can entertain that will help us deal nobly and honorably with lust. Is it true, with people who experience gender dysphoria, that if they will take on certain spiritual disciplines, they can actually turn down some of that gender dysphoria in their lives?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Well, I want to be clear that, if someone\u2019s a Christian and experiencing gender dysphoria, I don\u2019t want to promise them that someday\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>10:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that\u2019s going to go away.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>\u2014that\u2019s going to go away. I can\u2019t make that promise. What I can say is that the Bible says that, when we are weak, Christ is strong; and His grace is sufficient in our weakness. What the Holy Spirit does, when the Spirit comes into our life is\u2014He works to conform us into the image of Christ. Christ comes into our life, and we find <em>Him<\/em> more satisfying than the brokenness of our struggles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and you said something\u2014you said, \u201c\u2026in our weakness.\u201d So we\u2019re classifying gender dysphoria here as a weakness\u2014that\u2019s where some, on the other side, would say: \u201cThis is not a weakness. This is who I am, and to classify it as a weakness is a wrong characterization.\u201d This is where we have to decide: \u201cWhat\u2019s our source of truth?\u2014is it how we feel?\u2014is it what biology says?\u2014or is it what God says in His revealed Word? Do you think the Bible is clear on gender identity and how God has made us male and female?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>11:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>I do. I mean, there\u2019s obviously no verse in the Bible that says, \u201cHere\u2019s what gender identity means: \u2018<em>x,\u2019 \u2018y,\u2019<\/em> and \u2018<em>z<\/em>\u2019\u201d; but when we look at the earliest passages in Genesis, what we see is God making male and female equal, but distinct. Part of what makes male and female unique and complementary is the fact that each possesses a reproductive ability that the other needs in order for there to be reproduction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would make the case that our gender identity is based on our composition as how God made us, biologically, down to the level of our chromosomes; but then, also, our reproductive ability is important here as well. This doesn\u2019t mean, if you\u2019re struggling with infertility that you\u2019re not a male \/ you\u2019re not a female, but what it means is that one of the distinguishing marks that makes us clearly male and female is that reproductive ability. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>12:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is <em>more<\/em> to being male and female than our reproductive anatomy; but we\u2019re never <em>less<\/em> than our reproductive anatomy, because of how God made us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Let\u2019s say there\u2019s a listener, right now, who has a family member, who has maybe come out and said: \u201cI\u2019m transgender. I\u2019m a trans-male,\u201d and you knew the person as a female, growing up. Coach that adult in how to deal with another adult, who is choosing to place their bets on something that goes against God\u2019s design.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>A lot of my answer on this depends on the nature of the relationships and the proximity that this person has to this person, who\u2019s identifying as transgender. If this is a close person to me\u2014if this is a family member \/ if this is a sibling or a child of mine\u2014my own conviction is that I would not be willing to refer to that person by their new pronoun, or by their new name, or refer to them as their new gender identity.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>13:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhy is that? Because, first-off, as a Christian, I feel like I am to speak the truth in love. I think I have the relational capital to speak truth to that person. That person ought to know that my love for them is bigger and stronger than what this disagreement is right here. That person ought to know that I\u2019m going to be here, loving them regardless of how they identify, and they ought to be able to have a level of assurance that, even if I\u2019m disagreeing with them, it doesn\u2019t mean I hate them; it doesn\u2019t mean I want to discriminate against them; it doesn\u2019t mean I want to do them any harm at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut more importantly, it\u2019s very possible that, if you\u2019re a family member of who\u2019s identifying as transgender, you might be the very last person in that person\u2019s life that is willing to speak truth to them; because it\u2019s likely that, in a corporate setting or in a job setting, that person has been given full acceptance to identify as transgender. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>14:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTheir social network might identify them by their preferred gender identity; and you, as their family member, might be the very last person who says to them: \u201cListen, I love you; but I\u2019m not going to affirm this identity in you, because I don\u2019t think this is how God made you. You know I love you \/ you know I\u2019m not going anywhere, and nothing about your circumstances is going to change that. But because of what I know to be true of you, based on what I know is true of the Bible, I\u2019m going to refer to you as your biological sex and the name that you were given.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>You know, that\u2019s one thing to do within a family; but today, in the corporate community, there are laws that are being enacted now that say: \u201cIf you and I are going to work together, and if I decide that I\u2019m transgender, you have to refer to me by my new preferred sex. What would you do if you were in a job, where you were required to speak in terms of pronouns of the new sex of the person?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>15:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s really important, right now, to emphasize that I think there\u2019s a conscience issue here, that each Christian is going to have to grapple with for themselves, especially in kind of the more ambiguous settings, like a corporate setting or a workplace setting. So, first, I want the Christian to do what their conscience is comfortable with. With that said, if you are being forced to sign something or forced to assent to something that you are uncomfortable with, and that you disagree with, and that you think violates Scripture, you need to raise that concern with your employer. Quite frankly, you need to be willing to pay the price for your conscience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have a lot of people contact me about different dilemmas that they\u2019re involved in in various work environments. The assumption in their question to me is that there is an easy resolution to their ethical dilemma. And sometimes, there\u2019s simply not a resolution other than obeying your conscience and paying the price for your conscience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>16:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s going to be something that we have to really grapple with in the coming days and years as the transgender revolution continues to march on\u2014that there are settings that are going to be very difficult for Christians to enter into in the future. I say that with great regret; because I want Christians to be everywhere in the culture, being salt and light. But there are going to be some places\u2014corporate settings, educational settings, counseling settings\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The military\u2014I mean, the list goes on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>\u2014medical settings\u2014that might produce a conflict with a Christian conscience. What I would recommend is: \u201cAlways obey your conscience, and never go against what your conscience is telling you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>And don\u2019t forget to just pray and ask God for wisdom in how to confront the issue. Bob, you were asked, by a follower of Christ, how to handle a situation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; he came to me and said: \u201cHere\u2019s what we\u2019ve been told at work. This person is to be referred to with the preferred pronouns, and that\u2019s now corporate policy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>17:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd he said, \u201cWhat do I do?\u2014because it\u2019s a violation of my own conscience to do that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cWell, here\u2019s the first thing I\u2019d do\u2014I would avoid pronouns. I would refer to that person by whatever they\u2019re choosing as their given name.\u201d Now, you may say, \u201cWell, if they\u2019re choosing Amanda as their given name\u2014that has a female connotation.\u201d I\u2019d say, \u201cWell, okay; but it\u2019s different than you assigning a gender when you call them by a given name.\u201d I would say\u2014rather than saying, \u201cHere\u2019s what she said,\u201d\u2014I\u2019d say: \u201cThis is what Amanda said,\u201d and \u201cAmanda thinks we should do it this way,\u201d and \u201cI think we need to listen to Amanda.\u201d I would just avoid the pronouns altogether.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think to your point\u2014we have an example in Scripture of what you do when you live in a culture that\u2019s hostile to your views and you\u2019re called upon to violate the views, like eat meat offered to idols or bow down to King Nebuchadnezzar. What do you do? Daniel winsomely appealed\u2014Daniel went before the authorities and said, \u201cI\u2019d like to propose an alternate solution.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>18:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe did it respectfully; he did it with humility. He had an approach here that said, \u201cO king, you\u2019re the king; but here\u2019s how I\u2019m going to appeal\u2026\u201d\u2014knowing that there\u2019s a lions\u2019 den out there, and there\u2019s a fiery furnace out there, and we may face those things. If we do, we have to trust God in the midst of them. We don\u2019t back down from our convictions just because of the furnace, or the lions\u2019 den, or the unemployment line is in our future.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>Acts, in Chapter 5, says: \u201cWe have to obey God rather than men.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>And so, we want to honor conscience, on the one hand\u2014and too, something else you just said\u2014I think we have the mechanisms and the ability to respectfully let an employer know that this is an infringement on our conscience. You don\u2019t lose your religious liberty just because you enter into a certain work environment. So this means\u2014you know, you may not want to be entering into lengthy legal dilemmas\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>19:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014but because we have a first amendment in this country, you have as much right as anyone else to register a concern with an employer. And I would say, if that\u2019s something you want to do, be prepared to do that\u2014do it winsomely, and kindly,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and humbly\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>\u2014and humbly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and with meekness. That\u2019s\u2014you know, a lot of people go around asserting their rights: \u201cWell, you can\u2019t make me do it.\u201d Just go in, appealing with humility: \u201cI want to be a good employee here, but this causes me to violate my conscience.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Andrew: <\/strong>But I would say, to kind of round out kind of the pronoun\/naming controversy, is\u2014you always want to ask the question of: \u201cWhat is my relationship with this person?\u201d and \u201cIn what context am I in a relationship with this person?\u201d Because I think that is going to kind of shape our response in various outcomes and circumstances. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think what you\u2019re challenging all of us to are a couple of things: first of all, know what you believe the Scripture teaches about male and female. Genesis, \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tChapter 1\u2014God did not stutter. He said He made us \u201c\u2026male and female, in the image of God He created them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>20:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA second thing you\u2019re challenging us to\u2014and we\u2019ve hit it, repeatedly, in this conversation today\u2014is that of being loving, kind, and respectful toward other people. That may mean you take the conversation to a private place, where you talk to your boss\u2014and as, Bob, you were saying Daniel did, he appealed to the king\u2014but he did so in a way where we could get a hearing and he could be understood. He asked for grace to be able to continue to stand for what he thought was right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; one of the reasons that we really appreciate your book is because you call us to engage on this issue with wisdom, with compassion, with kindness, [and] with grace. If we\u2019re going to engage on this or any issue, where we\u2019re in conflict with the culture, we have to be winsome in our engagement. I just want to encourage listeners, get a copy of <em>God and the Transgender Debate: What Does the Bible Actually Say About Gender Identity? <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>21:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-358-6329\u20141-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, at the core of all of this\u2014especially as we think about raising our children in this culture\u2014at the core is the question of: \u201cWhere does truth come from? What\u2019s your source of truth and authority?\u201d For those of who would say the Bible is that source of truth, we should not be surprised that we\u2019ll be in conflict with our culture. As we raise our children, we\u2019re going to have to teach our children how to keep Christ at the center of all that they do, and all that they think, and all that they believe.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re just now wrapping up production of a resource we have been working on for more than a year\u2014it\u2019s called <em>FamilyLife\u2019s Art of Parenting<\/em>\u2122. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>22:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s an eight-session DVD series for small groups or for churches to use. It\u2019s also going to be available, online, for couples to go through in a digital experience. The goal of this is to help moms and dads with strategies for how to raise the next generation to be anchored in the gospel. If you\u2019d like to find out more about the<em> Art of Parenting<\/em>, there\u2019s a video clip you can watch, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s also information about a new movie that is going to be the kickoff event for the<em> Art of Parenting.<\/em> It\u2019s in theaters for two nights only, May 1<sup>st<\/sup> and May 3<sup>rd<\/sup>, in more than 800 theaters across the country. The movie is called <em>Like Arrows<\/em>. It was co-produced with our friends, Alex and Stephen Kendrick, who offered a lot of help on this film. In fact, Alex has a role in the movie. We\u2019re hoping that we will have packed theaters on May 1<sup>st<\/sup> and May 3<sup>rd<\/sup> to see what we think is going to be a very engaging film, called <em>Like Arrows<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>23:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, you can watch a trailer for the movie, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; and tickets are on sale already. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for information about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe whole goal with all of this is to try to stir up a movement of intentional parenting. We\u2019re hoping, in the midst of this, to take biblical parenting principles and put them in the hands of people\u2014who are not listening to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>\/ not attending a local church\u2014people who need to hear the gospel and people who need to hear about God\u2019s design for parenting.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re developing strategies to try to get this material into those hands, and we\u2019d like your help. If you\u2019d made a donation today, you will help us reach more people. In fact, we calculate it takes about $10 to reach a family; so whatever you can do, we\u2019d love to have you join us. Donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY. When you do, we have a set of seven prayer cards we will send you to help you pray more regularly and more intentionally for your own children or your grandchildren. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>24:00<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose prayer cards are our thank-you gift for partnering with us as we seek to bring practical biblical help and hope to marriages and families.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back tomorrow as we\u2019re going to talk about what moms and dads need to keep in mind as we raise the next generation in a brave new transgendered world. That conversation comes up tomorrow. I hope you can be here for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> of Little Rock, Arkansas; \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/300191","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=300191"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=300191"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=300191"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=300191"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=300191"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=300191"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=300191"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}